The sprint discussion thread

Games Halo 5: Guardians
14064

> 2533274797974279;14063:
> > 2533274912467533;14061:
> > > 2533274958069559;14059:
> > > I would keep sprint. it comes in handy every now and then.
> >
> > Wouldn’t you find it more convenient to be able to move fast and shoot at the same time? The only time sprint comes in handy, especially in Halo 5 is when your moving across open space on a map with loads of open sight lines. Increased movement speed does the exact same thing and, guess what, doesn’t penalize you for moving faster.
>
> I feel like sprinting is fine how it is. It balances speed with no recovery, so it is a risk to sprint in most situations. Are there better things that could be done, probably. However, I don’t mind sprinting all that much.

If it is a risk in most situations, how is it helping gameplay? By allowing you to get to cover faster? The cover is only that far away due to map stretching for sprint. Almost all of the balancing issues in Halo 5 would not exist if sprint did not exist. The best thing for Halo, largely due to the high ttk, is to increase base movement speed rather than keeping sprint.

14065

> 2535414356806465;14050:
> > 2533274973685362;4:
> > didn’t even bother reading it because it is the dumbest topic out there right now. Just because it has sprint doesn’t mean its not Halo. It’s one whole mechanic, that’s it. If you don’t like sprint, don’t sprint. Problem solved.
>
> Haha, definitely! If you don’t like modern gaming go back and play the old games. All modern first-person-shooters have sprint.

-CSGO
-Doom
-Overwatch
-Unreal Tournament
-Warhammer: Vermintide
-Quake Champions
-Toxic

But sure, let’s move the goal posts and put in some sort of popularity requirement as well as “sequel” stuff meaning that few or even none of those listed games qualify for your statement.

> 2535414356806465;14051:
> > 2535446258961514;10:
> > I think sprint is important part of the game now and should stay. I dont know why it really matters in campaign. It allows you to escape easier for one so i dont know why you would want it removed. Kinda why its essential in the game now. Being able to get around faster and having the choice of sprinting around and running around factor a ton into if you run into a fight. For example most time if im running around a corner and a guy is right in my face and he was not sprinting i will likely die since you cant fire from hip while running. So it matters in a game-play what you choose to do. Think it should stay.
>
> Agreed! Spartans can sprint right!? So why not have it in the game.

Prone, HtH combat, roll grenades instead of throwing them, corner lean, blind fire from cover, need I go on?

> 2535414356806465;14052:
> > 2535446258961514;10:
> > I think sprint is important part of the game now and should stay. I dont know why it really matters in campaign. It allows you to escape easier for one so i dont know why you would want it removed. Kinda why its essential in the game now. Being able to get around faster and having the choice of sprinting around and running around factor a ton into if you run into a fight. For example most time if im running around a corner and a guy is right in my face and he was not sprinting i will likely die since you cant fire from hip while running. So it matters in a game-play what you choose to do. Think it should stay.
>
>
>
> > 2533274886267116;19:
> > The reason why sprint was added to halo was to make it more fast paced. Newer generations of gamers (me included) who didn’t grow up with halo are used to fast paced games such as battlefield, cod, and just about every other fps. It’s hard for a slow paced game like the older halos and even the newer ones to attract these gamers so they added sprint. To be honest I like sprint when I don’t have it I feel like a turtle with a gun. Sure you might not like it but your not everyone. 343 also has to appeal to the newer generations as well. Don’t get me wrong I had fun playing halo 3(my first halo and firs Xbox game) but ounce I got to other games like battlefield and even cod I noticed how slow the gameplay actually was.
>
> I agree. Having sprint allows the thousands of young gamers a chance to transition from one game to the other. Also, when you don’t sprint you feel soooo slow! They can’t take it out now that they’ve added it. Additionally, improved gaming platforms naturally leads to larger maps. Players need some way to move faster, without vehicles, across large maps.

So, are general younger gamers unable to learn entirely new games and thus all games in certain genres need to conform in order for those younger players to be able to actually play them? You make it sound like a young gamer can’t comprehend a new ruleset no matter how much they play.

You know, sprinting isn’t the only way to make movement seem fast…
-Increased Movement speed
-Increased Field of View
-Varying degrees of motion blur depending on speed
-Weapon bobbing of varying degrees

Better platforms lead to more detailed maps, You could have massive maps on previous generation consoles. Thing is though, new tech does not dictate map size, what the designer wants to accomplish with the map does, and larger does not automatically mean better.

We already had ways of moving around large maps without vehicles before sprint was introduced.
-Teleporters
-Man cannons
-Grav lifts
-Conveyor belts
-Elevators
-Short cuts in the map meant for foot people

Not to mention untested waters like Portals ala from Portal, escalators, positioning arms that grab you and pull you a specific path to a specific locations.

Furthermore, how you choose to move on a map is up to you, if vehicles are present for you to use then it’s your choice not to use them, alternatively you’ve lost them which is then a lack of skill keeping them together, as long as map weapon placement is good enough.

14066

> 2535414356806465;14051:
> Agreed! Spartans can sprint right!? So why not have it in the game.

Spartans can shoot while sprinting. So why not have it in the game?

> 2535414356806465;14052:
> They can’t take it out now that they’ve added it.

You mean how Bungie couldn’t remove dual wielding after two games, even though it had balancing issues?
Oh, wait…

14067

I’m currently playing PREY (2017) for a review I’m writing. And at first I rolled my eyes when I saw on the control screen that it had sprint on LS instead of crouch (and you couldn’t even change the button layout). But once I tried it out, I realized that “Sprint” in PREY also increases your strafe, you can still shoot, it just increases BMS at the push of a button. It allows for slide and long jumps and facilitates repositioning (not just running away), but is limited and makes aiming a bit more difficult (as there is hardly any aim assist as far as I’ve seen). This might have been the best implementation of “sprint” that I’ve ever seen. It probably would not work in Halo, especially in the multiplayer, but hot damn, I’d rather see 343 try this approach than any of the other implementations that Halo had so far. Especially for the campaign section. It was just so refreshing, finally playing a modern game once again that doesn’t constantly rob me of my offensive capabilties.

14068

> 2533274801176260;14067:
> I’m currently playing PREY (2017) for a review I’m writing. And at first I rolled my eyes when I saw on the control screen that it had sprint on LS instead of crouch (and you couldn’t even change the button layout). But once I tried it out, I realized that “Sprint” in PREY also increases your strafe, you can still shoot, it just increases BMS at the push of a button. It allows for slide and long jumps and facilitates repositioning (not just running away), but is limited and makes aiming a bit more difficult (as there is hardly any aim assist as far as I’ve seen). This might have been the best implementation of “sprint” that I’ve ever seen. It probably would not work in Halo, especially in the multiplayer, but hot damn, I’d rather see 343 try this approach than any of the other implementations that Halo had so far.

At that point, Sprint is just reverse crouch then if the only benefit for not using it is that you can aim better. Otherwise you’d be using it all the time. The fact that Sprint is limited means that you could be using it all the time because its so worth using, but the game tells you not to.

Kinda like when we move in normal speed on the ground all the time but we crouch to aim better or stay hidden.

Why not increase the BMS (maybe not to Sprint levels, but some middle ground), remove the Sprint button, and have Crouch take the job of slowing you down?

14069

> 2535414356806465;14052:
> I agree. Having sprint allows the thousands of young gamers a chance to transition from one game to the other. Also, when you don’t sprint you feel soooo slow! They can’t take it out now that they’ve added it. Additionally, improved gaming platforms naturally leads to larger maps. Players need some way to move faster, without vehicles, across large maps.

The fact that Speed Boost exists in the game as a power up contradicts your point entirely. It’s a way to go much faster, without ever using a Sprint button.

The reason you feel so slow because you’re artificially moving faster by swinging your arms more and having a woosh sound go past you.

They can very much take out Sprint. It’s so simple a regular player can do it. Oh wait, they can, it’s literally a Custom Game option.

Improved gaming platforms lead to more detailed maps, but not larger in size. People are still capable of creating smaller maps.

> 2535414356806465;14057:
> > 2533274901833242;14055:
> > > 2535414356806465;14050:
> > > > 2533274973685362;4:
> > > > didn’t even bother reading it because it is the dumbest topic out there right now. Just because it has sprint doesn’t mean its not Halo. It’s one whole mechanic, that’s it. If you don’t like sprint, don’t sprint. Problem solved.
> > >
> > > Haha, definitely! If you don’t like modern gaming go back and play the old games. All modern first-person-shooters have sprint.
> >
> > Overwatch doesn’t…(yes, I know soldier can sprint but that’s one character out of over 20). OW is waaaaay not popular than H5 so the excuse that modern shooters need sprint is absolute rubbish.
>
> I don’t understand what you are even trying to say. I’m talking about popular, well structured games. Overwatch is not very popular compared to Halo 5, COD, Battlefield, etc and they all have sprint.

Is that why Overwatch currently surpassed 30 million players?

14070

> 2533274833081329;14068:
> Why not increase the BMS (maybe not to Sprint levels, but some middle ground), remove the Sprint button, and have Crouch take the job of slowing you down?

Well, as I said, the PREY style probably wouldn’t work in Halo. It’s in there because PREY has a huge stealth component, and crouching makes you less visible than upright movement, while sprinting increases the sound you make. It’s not a straight up shooter like Halo or Doom are. Think of it as BioShock in space.

I just prefer it to Halo’s sprint, because at least it’s a logical third step of movement, in the sense that crouch and upright movement are omnidirectional and let you attack while moving, whereas sprint is the odd one out and prevents both of these things. You have three movement styles in Halo, and one of them works completely different than the others. If that’s not inconsistent, I don’t know what is…

14071

Alright! The thread is back! I’m a huge PC guy, and a Halo PC release would be awesome there’s definitely a market for it, just look at the huge amount of fan games being made. I think that the more classic style would lend itself really well to PC also, creating a very well received game, as long as it’s released on steam. I haven’t talked to a single PC gamer who 1) Hasn’t used steam and 2) Likes the Microsoft Windows Store. A classic style Halo game on PC, that was also on PC would do really well, and could also become a huge competitive PC game as long as they make sure aiming and UI is done right for PC. UI isn’t as major, but aiming is for sure, just look at how poorly H5 Forge’s functioned. They need different reticles (probably 1 across the board) and they could have aiming function just like Quake Champions, a game that coincidently also runs in the havok engine, meaning that proper Halo PC aim would be possible as long as 343/whoever ports puts some effort in.

14072

Whatever the outcome will be for sprint in Halo, I’ll be fine. I have no strong feelings for or against this.

14073

> 2533274801176260;14066:
> > 2535414356806465;14051:
> > Agreed! Spartans can sprint right!? So why not have it in the game.
>
> Spartans can shoot while sprinting. So why not have it in the game?
>
>
>
>
> > 2535414356806465;14052:
> > They can’t take it out now that they’ve added it.
>
> You mean how Bungie couldn’t remove dual wielding after two games, even though it had balancing issues?
> Oh, wait…

Two words… Health packs. Here for CE, removed for 2 & 3… back for Reach… game devs can add/remove almost any thing at any time, it’s a simple (or not simple) thing to do if they have a plan and know how to balance the game afterward.

14074

i say we should be able to start sprinting faster but sprint slower. no ground pound or spartan charge, keep clamber

14075

> 2533274805310943;14074:
> i say we should be able to start sprinting faster but sprint slower. no ground pound or spartan charge, keep clamber

Pretty sure if we sprinted any slower, it would just be a pointless lowering of weapons. We should at least be able to shoot at this top speed.

14076

> 2533274849581252;14075:
> > 2533274805310943;14074:
> > i say we should be able to start sprinting faster but sprint slower. no ground pound or spartan charge, keep clamber
>
> Pretty sure if we sprinted any slower, it would just be a pointless lowering of weapons. We should at least be able to shoot at this top speed.

Forse it’s that once I do an ability such as spartan charge of ground pound I feel as if they ruin the momentum in my movement. I think they game would be certainly smoother without them

14077

The way I see it, in the original trilogy, we were always sprinting, but we were still able to shoot. If you look at it that way then adding “running style sprint” was just stupid and made spartans less like super soldiers.

14078

I have wondered how a run and gun sprint mechanic would play in an fps. All the games I have ever seen regurgitate the same style of sprint mechanic so there is no real reference. Except maybe 1, the Temple Banshee, where you can boost and shoot at the same time. I wonder if the same or something similar could be applied to Spartans. Where you can interrupt the sprint animation to shoot and perform other actions without loosing speed. The draw back being, like the temple banshee, you turn your aim much slower the faster you go and your momentum makes your movement more predictable.

Might work best with a faster base speed and a smaller gap to top speed. And maybe a little freedom to aim a bit at an angle to the direction your running… I’d be interested to see if it worked. Makes me think of Halo legends Let’s Sprint this.

14079

<mark>This post has been edited by a moderator. Please refrain from making posts that do not contribute to the topic at hand.</mark>
*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

So 343 announced that Halo 6 will not be at E3 this year, and H3A isn’t happening according to them. Maybe we will get a spinoff before Halo 6? Or 343 could just say it’s not Halo 6 because they’re dropping the number altogether.

14080

> 2533274797849057;14078:
> I have wondered how a run and gun sprint mechanic would play in an fps. All the games I have ever seen regurgitate the same style of sprint mechanic so there is no real reference. Except maybe 1, the Temple Banshee, where you can boost and shoot at the same time. I wonder if the same or something similar could be applied to Spartans. Where you can interrupt the sprint animation to shoot and perform other actions without loosing speed. The draw back being, like the temple banshee, you turn your aim much slower the faster you go and your momentum makes your movement more predictable.
>
> Might work best with a faster base speed and a smaller gap to top speed. And maybe a little freedom to aim a bit at an angle to the direction your running… I’d be interested to see if it worked. Makes me think of Halo legends Let’s Sprint this.

For an example of this type of sprint mechanic, just play classic Doom or Half Life 2. They have the “run and gun” type of sprinting you’re looking for. In reality, all this type of mechanic is is just a glorified speed boost button, and if you want my honest opinion, they would be better off if the run button were removed for an increase in base movement (funny enough, Half Life 1 actually had faster base movement than Half Life 2, and if you play Doom on an open source platform like GZdoom, you can turn the run button off for constant running). However, for things like first person platforming, having the ability to adjust your running speed at the press of a button is actually kinda helpful.

14081

<mark>This post has been edited by a moderator. Please refrain from making posts that do not contribute to the topic at hand.</mark>
*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

> 2533274944267503;14079:
>

If we do it won’t be this year, or at least I’m pretty sure they won’t show one this year since apparently Microsoft aren’t showcasing any FPS Halo games at E3.

14082

> 2533274944267503;14079:
>

H2A wasn’t happening either but we got mcc, devs will try to hide that stuff sometimes. Doesn’t mean they may actually mean it this time however.

i also doubt they’re working on a spin-off, especially if they plan on a H6 in 2018/2019 as it takes away from the main game. I’d count on it being numbered 6, especially if it features chief chief as that would just piss people off, not to mention if it’s a sequel it makes sense to call it 6.

regardless: I’d like to see them scrap the abilities as it’d be a much better experience for me, plus I’d like to see them give it a go with no sprint just so that question can be answered.

14083

The problem I have with Sprint is that it is underpinned by a thematic shift in design that wasn’t warranted… and the new theme was half-baked.

The devs wanted to make a game where there are trade-offs between weapon usage/efficiency and movement, but they didn’t fully commit to it. Accuracy doesn’t decrease while moving as opposed to staying still, players aren’t penalized for jumping, etc. Of course that’s not what I would want from a Halo game, but that ship’s already sailed with the inclusion of movement mechanics that disallow weapon usage.

The original theme was about making the most of offensive and movement simultaneously, whereas the new theme is about compromising between the two. The game now tells you what’s allowed when it once asked what you were capable of.