The sprint discussion thread

Games Halo 5: Guardians
13924

> 2535464451695009;13800:
> > 2533274808578327;13799:
> > > 2533274825830455;13792:
> > > Let’s not be too hasty without our claims. When you assert that something is “objectively provable”, you truly need to be able to prove it, or you just end up exaggerating and making your position appear more objective than it actually is.
> > > There are three claims contained in “[sprint’s] negative impact on Halo is objectively provable”. The first claim is that there exists specific, provable effects that sprint has on gameplay. The second claim is that there exists some objective measure of “negative impact”, and the third is that it can be proven that these specific effects have that property of “negative impact”.
> > > When it comes to the first claim, some effects generally attributed to sprint are: separation of movement and combat, increase of map sizes, and lowered difficulty of escaping encounters. If anyone wants to point out more, feel free to. At any rate, of these three effects, none are strictly speaking provable, mainly because we don’t have any strict enough definitions to speak about–
> >
> > But hasn’t it been proven on so many fronts (in word arguments, with video and such)? It’s not like the discussion of sprint was born recently, it’s been around since it was shown in Reach. It gets fiercer and fiercer as it stubbornly stays and anti sprinters have gotten so much more knowledgeable information they can bring to the table.
> > I’m just not sure what exactly you are trying to say, it just seems like you’re beating around the bush hard.
>
> tsassi’s not beating around the bush. Basically, they’re just saying that we have to think critically about why we believe our position to be true, and use evidence to support it rather than just stating out our opinion. They’ve done this occasionally for both sides of the sprint debate.
>
> Anyways, I was going to post later about how we have to stop circle-jerking this thread, but I guess I’ll address it now since I’m replying to you and don’t want to bump this thread if no one posts after me. I don’t really think we should just keep on talking about just flat out removing sprint anymore since we’re going to end up making this an echo-chamber, which it’s kinda been leaning towards for quite a while. Since there’s an incredibly low chance of 343 removing sprint, based on what Frankie said about Halo 5 being the “base of the games” going forward, how about we talk about “improving” or changing sprint for non-sprinters, and to separate future Halo games from the competition (mostly Call of Duty and Titanfall)?
>
>
> As much as I want sprint gone, we need to talk about some sort of middle ground, just so 343 doesn’t keep ignoring all the “Remove Sprint” and “Sprint Sucks” requests, rants, and stuff like that for the third game in a row and possibly think negatively about us classic-style fans. I feel like a transitional phase, much like Reach to Halo 5, would be much better, and less jarring, for the old and new community (mostly for the new community) than Halo 6 straight up removing sprint out the gate. I’m still finalizing my “free-time” thoughts on my proposition, however. It’s close, and some of its ideas are floating around on my posts, but I can’t think of a way to fix a big problem I thought about, which involves “universality.”

The truth is though that Sprint and No Sprint playlists will not work well together. I had this argument as the game designer in I01 and I think Halo 5 proves it. You need differently designed maps and settings for this to work, and you have to change too much to give both play styles the respect they deserve. This is why I’ve been saying for months that 343 should do a Reach style spin-off without sprint to gauge the community’s interest in Halo games without Sprint. Hell, even just a core series following MC or Locke and a side series with classic gameplay may make everyone happy.

13925

[deleted]

13926

How about instead of nerfing sprint, they buff it? Give it these attributes:

  • You can shoot while sprinting - Your shields can recharge while sprinting - You can always start sprinting, even if you’re being shot at - You can sprint in every direction - forwards, left, right, or backwardsSounds kind of ridiculous right? But funnily enough, this is exactly how movement worked in Halo 1-3. Replace the word ‘Sprint’ with ‘Max Movement Speed’, and you’ve got classic Halo.

  • You can shoot while at Max Movement Speed - Your shields can recharge while at Max Movement Speed - You can always start moving at Max Movement Speed, even if you’re being shot at - You can move at Max Movement Speed in every direction - forwards, left, right, or backwardsTa-da! That’s how you make sprint work in Halo.

This game has a really weird balance where you have to sprint to get anywhere within a reasonable amount of time, but every time you do sprint you’re punished in just about every other way. If you’re mid sprint and somebody starts shooting you, you’re better off staying in sprint to get to cover than you are to break out of sprint and return fire. If you stop and try to win that 1v1, you are at a massive disadvantage. So people don’t stop, they just run to cover and wait for their shields to recharge. That’s why this game plays so slowly.

13927

> 2533274913398097;13926:
> You can always start moving at Max Movement Speed, even if you’re being shot at

Is this definitely true? I never explicitly measured it, but from my experiences in LASO, getting shot slows you down ever so slightly. Might have been my imagination, tho.

> 2533274913398097;13926:
> You can move at Max Movement Speed in every direction - forwards, left, right, or backwards

This on the other hand is definitely incorrect, although it depends on what you count as “Max Movement Speed”. Forward movement was always faster than lateral or backwards movement. Forward movement is 2.25 World Units per second while all other directions have been 2 World Units per second. (Halo CE / Halo 3) But you might have referred to each direction seperately with its respective MMS.

13928

> 2533274801176260;13927:
> > 2533274913398097;13926:
> > You can always start moving at Max Movement Speed, even if you’re being shot at
>
> Is this definitely true? I never explicitly measured it, but from my experiences in LASO, getting shot slows you down ever so slightly. Might have been my imagination, tho.

Aside from plasma weapons in Halo CE, I’m not aware of such an effect in any other Halo. I did check a couple of Halo 3 weapons to make sure that at least generally, this doesn’t appear to be a thing, even if Bungie might have implemented minor stun effects on some weapons.

13929

> 2533274913398097;13926:
> How about instead of nerfing sprint, they buff it? Give it these attributes:
>
>
> - You can shoot while sprinting - Your shields can recharge while sprinting - You can always start sprinting, even if you’re being shot at - You can sprint in every direction - forwards, left, right, or backwardsSounds kind of ridiculous right? But funnily enough, this is exactly how movement worked in Halo 1-3. Replace the word ‘Sprint’ with ‘Max Movement Speed’, and you’ve got classic Halo.
>
>
> - You can shoot while at Max Movement Speed - Your shields can recharge while at Max Movement Speed - You can always start moving at Max Movement Speed, even if you’re being shot at - You can move at Max Movement Speed in every direction - forwards, left, right, or backwardsTa-da! That’s how you make sprint work in Halo.
>
> This game has a really weird balance where you have to sprint to get anywhere within a reasonable amount of time, but every time you do sprint you’re punished in just about every other way. If you’re mid sprint and somebody starts shooting you, you’re better off staying in sprint to get to cover than you are to break out of sprint and return fire. If you stop and try to win that 1v1, you are at a massive disadvantage. So people don’t stop, they just run to cover and wait for their shields to recharge. That’s why this game plays so slowly.

Well in that case, why not simply buff base speed to sprint speed? Having two separate move speeds on its won would still create issues with map design. The only way sprint would work is if it gave a small boost to speed (5%).

13930

> 2533274875084332;13929:
> > 2533274913398097;13926:
> > How about instead of nerfing sprint, they buff it? Give it these attributes:
> >
> >
> > - You can shoot while sprinting - Your shields can recharge while sprinting - You can always start sprinting, even if you’re being shot at - You can sprint in every direction - forwards, left, right, or backwardsSounds kind of ridiculous right? But funnily enough, this is exactly how movement worked in Halo 1-3. Replace the word ‘Sprint’ with ‘Max Movement Speed’, and you’ve got classic Halo.
> >
> >
> > - You can shoot while at Max Movement Speed - Your shields can recharge while at Max Movement Speed - You can always start moving at Max Movement Speed, even if you’re being shot at - You can move at Max Movement Speed in every direction - forwards, left, right, or backwardsTa-da! That’s how you make sprint work in Halo.
> >
> > This game has a really weird balance where you have to sprint to get anywhere within a reasonable amount of time, but every time you do sprint you’re punished in just about every other way. If you’re mid sprint and somebody starts shooting you, you’re better off staying in sprint to get to cover than you are to break out of sprint and return fire. If you stop and try to win that 1v1, you are at a massive disadvantage. So people don’t stop, they just run to cover and wait for their shields to recharge. That’s why this game plays so slowly.
>
> Well in that case, why not simply buff base speed to sprint speed? Having two separate move speeds on its won would still create issues with map design. The only way sprint would work is if it gave a small boost to speed (5%).

That’s exactly what he’s suggesting.

13931

> 2533274913398097;13926:
> How about instead of nerfing sprint, they buff it? Give it these attributes:
>
>
> - You can shoot while sprinting - Your shields can recharge while sprinting - You can always start sprinting, even if you’re being shot at - You can sprint in every direction - forwards, left, right, or backwardsSounds kind of ridiculous right? But funnily enough, this is exactly how movement worked in Halo 1-3. Replace the word ‘Sprint’ with ‘Max Movement Speed’, and you’ve got classic Halo.
>
>
> - You can shoot while at Max Movement Speed - Your shields can recharge while at Max Movement Speed - You can always start moving at Max Movement Speed, even if you’re being shot at - You can move at Max Movement Speed in every direction - forwards, left, right, or backwardsTa-da! That’s how you make sprint work in Halo.
>
> This game has a really weird balance where you have to sprint to get anywhere within a reasonable amount of time, but every time you do sprint you’re punished in just about every other way. If you’re mid sprint and somebody starts shooting you, you’re better off staying in sprint to get to cover than you are to break out of sprint and return fire. If you stop and try to win that 1v1, you are at a massive disadvantage. So people don’t stop, they just run to cover and wait for their shields to recharge. That’s why this game plays so slowly.

So essentially go the Doom 1 and 2/ Half Life 2 route and just make sprint a useless speed boost button? At that point, why not iust increase base movement, remove the speed boost button and have one single movement speed?

13932

Haven’t been here for a while, I’d like to mention this.

> 2533274913398097;13926:
> How about instead of nerfing sprint, they buff it? Give it these attributes:
>
>
> - You can shoot while sprinting - Your shields can recharge while sprinting - You can always start sprinting, even if you’re being shot at - You can sprint in every direction - forwards, left, right, or backwardsSounds kind of ridiculous right? But funnily enough, this is exactly how movement worked in Halo 1-3. Replace the word ‘Sprint’ with ‘Max Movement Speed’, and you’ve got classic Halo.
>
>
> - You can shoot while at Max Movement Speed - Your shields can recharge while at Max Movement Speed - You can always start moving at Max Movement Speed, even if you’re being shot at - You can move at Max Movement Speed in every direction - forwards, left, right, or backwardsTa-da! That’s how you make sprint work in Halo.
>
> This game has a really weird balance where you have to sprint to get anywhere within a reasonable amount of time, but every time you do sprint you’re punished in just about every other way. If you’re mid sprint and somebody starts shooting you, you’re better off staying in sprint to get to cover than you are to break out of sprint and return fire. If you stop and try to win that 1v1, you are at a massive disadvantage. So people don’t stop, they just run to cover and wait for their shields to recharge. That’s why this game plays so slowly.

This post actually enlightened me. I now understand sprint much better.
This is what sprint does to halo.
It doesn’t add something to it, but it takes away from halo.
Let’s put it in a scale
HALO GUN PLAY--------------------------------------SPRINT BEING ADDED------------------------------------------HALO GUN PLAY
What I have done here is mention that sprint retracts from halo in 2 ways, since that your gun isn’t up at all times, it becomes less chaotic and nades aren’t being thrown, guns aren’t being shot. etc. etc.
But what it also does, it makes it more chaotic in a different way!
People bump into each other more, people spartan charge etc etc.

Halo becomes less of what it was when you add sprint.
Or at least that’s what I thought it too.

What happens if we go overboard?
What happens if we make sprint so good and effective, would that destroy the community?
I’d never thought of this until this gem of the post I quoted appeared.
The current sprint we have in halo 5, is better suited than halo 4 and halo reach sprint, but it still isn’t good enough, I still don’t feel like this is the gameplay I’m going to fall in love with again.

Now let’s say, while sprinting we recharge our shields- HALO 4-esque GAMEPLAY
Now, we can shoot while sprinting- CALL OF DUTY BLACK OPS 3-esque GAMEPLAY
*Uh-oh, looks like we have gone too far from halo’s original formula, but let’s keep going.*Let’s say, we don’t have to press a button to start sprinting, it just kicks in when we reach max base movement speed. - THE IDEA FOR THE SPRINT MECHANIC IN HALO 2.
*Gosh! We have went backwards even further, we know that Bungie cut out sprint due to pacing issues, but lets keep going.*Let’s say, we don’t put our gun down while sprint, since we can shoot, why not we have our guns up all the time - NO CURRENT GAME DESIGN
Now, let’s say we can do this in all directions - CLASSIC HALO FORMULA

Look!
We’ve just buffed sprint enough, which sounds like a cluster–Yoink-, but it matches EXACTLY with the original halo formula.
Holy -Yoink-!
Who knew that solving the sprint problem, was not to take it away, but to add more to it!

13933

They need to just increase the base movement speed and do away with sprint. People thought it was suicide cuz cod and bf have sprint but overwatch and cs go show that’s not the case

13934

> 2535470314519336;13932:
> Haven’t been here for a while, I’d like to mention this.
>
>
> > 2533274913398097;13926:
> > How about instead of nerfing sprint, they buff it? Give it these attributes:
> >
> >
> > - You can shoot while sprinting - Your shields can recharge while sprinting - You can always start sprinting, even if you’re being shot at - You can sprint in every direction - forwards, left, right, or backwardsSounds kind of ridiculous right? But funnily enough, this is exactly how movement worked in Halo 1-3. Replace the word ‘Sprint’ with ‘Max Movement Speed’, and you’ve got classic Halo.
> >
> >
> > - You can shoot while at Max Movement Speed - Your shields can recharge while at Max Movement Speed - You can always start moving at Max Movement Speed, even if you’re being shot at - You can move at Max Movement Speed in every direction - forwards, left, right, or backwardsTa-da! That’s how you make sprint work in Halo.
> >
> > This game has a really weird balance where you have to sprint to get anywhere within a reasonable amount of time, but every time you do sprint you’re punished in just about every other way. If you’re mid sprint and somebody starts shooting you, you’re better off staying in sprint to get to cover than you are to break out of sprint and return fire. If you stop and try to win that 1v1, you are at a massive disadvantage. So people don’t stop, they just run to cover and wait for their shields to recharge. That’s why this game plays so slowly.
>
> This post actually enlightened me. I now understand sprint much better.
> This is what sprint does to halo.
> It doesn’t add something to it, but it takes away from halo.
> Let’s put it in a scale
> HALO GUN PLAY--------------------------------------SPRINT BEING ADDED------------------------------------------HALO GUN PLAY
> What I have done here is mention that sprint retracts from halo in 2 ways, since that your gun isn’t up at all times, it becomes less chaotic and nades aren’t being thrown, guns aren’t being shot. etc. etc.
> But what it also does, it makes it more chaotic in a different way!
> People bump into each other more, people spartan charge etc etc.
>
> Halo becomes less of what it was when you add sprint.
> Or at least that’s what I thought it too.
>
> What happens if we go overboard?
> What happens if we make sprint so good and effective, would that destroy the community?
> I’d never thought of this until this gem of the post I quoted appeared.
> The current sprint we have in halo 5, is better suited than halo 4 and halo reach sprint, but it still isn’t good enough, I still don’t feel like this is the gameplay I’m going to fall in love with again.
>
> Now let’s say, while sprinting we recharge our shields- HALO 4-esque GAMEPLAY
> Now, we can shoot while sprinting- CALL OF DUTY BLACK OPS 3-esque GAMEPLAY
> *Uh-oh, looks like we have gone too far from halo’s original formula, but let’s keep going.*Let’s say, we don’t have to press a button to start sprinting, it just kicks in when we reach max base movement speed. - THE IDEA FOR THE SPRINT MECHANIC IN HALO 2.
> *Gosh! We have went backwards even further, we know that Bungie cut out sprint due to pacing issues, but lets keep going.*Let’s say, we don’t put our gun down while sprint, since we can shoot, why not we have our guns up all the time - NO CURRENT GAME DESIGN
> Now, let’s say we can do this in all directions - CLASSIC HALO FORMULA
>
> Look!
> We’ve just buffed sprint enough, which sounds like a cluster–Yoink-, but it matches EXACTLY with the original halo formula.
> Holy -Yoink-!
> Who knew that solving the sprint problem, was not to take it away, but to add more to it!

As I said above, buffing sprint to where it is just a speed boost button will just make it redundant as you can achieve the same thing by increasing base movement and removing the speed boost/sprint button feature. At the point you are going for, sprint is just as useless as it is when it is nerfed all to hell, so why even have it in the first place?

13935

> 2535464451695009;13800:
> > 2533274808578327;13799:
> > > 2533274825830455;13792:
> > > Let’s not be too hasty without our claims. When you assert that something is “objectively provable”, you truly need to be able to prove it, or you just end up exaggerating and making your position appear more objective than it actually is.
> > > There are three claims contained in “[sprint’s] negative impact on Halo is objectively provable”. The first claim is that there exists specific, provable effects that sprint has on gameplay. The second claim is that there exists some objective measure of “negative impact”, and the third is that it can be proven that these specific effects have that property of “negative impact”.
> > > When it comes to the first claim, some effects generally attributed to sprint are: separation of movement and combat, increase of map sizes, and lowered difficulty of escaping encounters. If anyone wants to point out more, feel free to. At any rate, of these three effects, none are strictly speaking provable, mainly because we don’t have any strict enough definitions to speak about–
> >
> > But hasn’t it been proven on so many fronts (in word arguments, with video and such)? It’s not like the discussion of sprint was born recently, it’s been around since it was shown in Reach. It gets fiercer and fiercer as it stubbornly stays and anti sprinters have gotten so much more knowledgeable information they can bring to the table.
> > I’m just not sure what exactly you are trying to say, it just seems like you’re beating around the bush hard.
>
> tsassi’s not beating around the bush. Basically, they’re just saying that we have to think critically about why we believe our position to be true, and use evidence to support it rather than just stating out our opinion. They’ve done this occasionally for both sides of the sprint debate.
>
> Anyways, I was going to post later about how we have to stop circle-jerking this thread, but I guess I’ll address it now since I’m replying to you and don’t want to bump this thread if no one posts after me. I don’t really think we should just keep on talking about just flat out removing sprint anymore since we’re going to end up making this an echo-chamber, which it’s kinda been leaning towards for quite a while. Since there’s an incredibly low chance of 343 removing sprint, based on what Frankie said about Halo 5 being the “base of the games” going forward, how about we talk about “improving” or changing sprint for non-sprinters, and to separate future Halo games from the competition (mostly Call of Duty and Titanfall)?
>
>
> As much as I want sprint gone, we need to talk about some sort of middle ground, just so 343 doesn’t keep ignoring all the “Remove Sprint” and “Sprint Sucks” requests, rants, and stuff like that for the third game in a row and possibly think negatively about us classic-style fans. I feel like a transitional phase, much like Reach to Halo 5, would be much better, and less jarring, for the old and new community (mostly for the new community) than Halo 6 straight up removing sprint out the gate. I’m still finalizing my “free-time” thoughts on my proposition, however. It’s close, and some of its ideas are floating around on my posts, but I can’t think of a way to fix a big problem I thought about, which involves “universality.”

Halo 5 was the compromise though,and it caused just as many problems as it fixed.

On a different note I want to clarify for anyone who’s stepping into the thread we’re not saying sprint is a bad game mechanic we’re saying it’s a bad halo mechanic.

13936

I keep the sprint, saved me from many circumstances and kept my team safe.

13937

> 2533274850499827;13936:
> I keep the sprint, saved me from many circumstances and kept my team safe.

Which is why it needs to be removed, takes away skill, cheats death.
Just because it has helped you, what about the guy on the other end?
It needs to be removed, or buffed to a point where it is indistinguishable from base movement speed.

13938

> 2533274912467533;13934:
> > 2535470314519336;13932:
> > Haven’t been here for a while, I’d like to mention this.
> >
> >
> > > 2533274913398097;13926:
> > > How about instead of nerfing sprint, they buff it? Give it these attributes:
> > >
> > >
> > > - You can shoot while sprinting - Your shields can recharge while sprinting - You can always start sprinting, even if you’re being shot at - You can sprint in every direction - forwards, left, right, or backwardsSounds kind of ridiculous right? But funnily enough, this is exactly how movement worked in Halo 1-3. Replace the word ‘Sprint’ with ‘Max Movement Speed’, and you’ve got classic Halo.
> > >
> > >
> > > - You can shoot while at Max Movement Speed - Your shields can recharge while at Max Movement Speed - You can always start moving at Max Movement Speed, even if you’re being shot at - You can move at Max Movement Speed in every direction - forwards, left, right, or backwardsTa-da! That’s how you make sprint work in Halo.
> > >
> > > This game has a really weird balance where you have to sprint to get anywhere within a reasonable amount of time, but every time you do sprint you’re punished in just about every other way. If you’re mid sprint and somebody starts shooting you, you’re better off staying in sprint to get to cover than you are to break out of sprint and return fire. If you stop and try to win that 1v1, you are at a massive disadvantage. So people don’t stop, they just run to cover and wait for their shields to recharge. That’s why this game plays so slowly.
> >
> > This post actually enlightened me. I now understand sprint much better.
> > This is what sprint does to halo.
> > It doesn’t add something to it, but it takes away from halo.
> > Let’s put it in a scale
> > HALO GUN PLAY--------------------------------------SPRINT BEING ADDED------------------------------------------HALO GUN PLAY
> > What I have done here is mention that sprint retracts from halo in 2 ways, since that your gun isn’t up at all times, it becomes less chaotic and nades aren’t being thrown, guns aren’t being shot. etc. etc.
> > But what it also does, it makes it more chaotic in a different way!
> > People bump into each other more, people spartan charge etc etc.
> >
> > Halo becomes less of what it was when you add sprint.
> > Or at least that’s what I thought it too.
> >
> > What happens if we go overboard?
> > What happens if we make sprint so good and effective, would that destroy the community?
> > I’d never thought of this until this gem of the post I quoted appeared.
> > The current sprint we have in halo 5, is better suited than halo 4 and halo reach sprint, but it still isn’t good enough, I still don’t feel like this is the gameplay I’m going to fall in love with again.
> >
> > Now let’s say, while sprinting we recharge our shields- HALO 4-esque GAMEPLAY
> > Now, we can shoot while sprinting- CALL OF DUTY BLACK OPS 3-esque GAMEPLAY
> > *Uh-oh, looks like we have gone too far from halo’s original formula, but let’s keep going.*Let’s say, we don’t have to press a button to start sprinting, it just kicks in when we reach max base movement speed. - THE IDEA FOR THE SPRINT MECHANIC IN HALO 2.
> > *Gosh! We have went backwards even further, we know that Bungie cut out sprint due to pacing issues, but lets keep going.*Let’s say, we don’t put our gun down while sprint, since we can shoot, why not we have our guns up all the time - NO CURRENT GAME DESIGN
> > Now, let’s say we can do this in all directions - CLASSIC HALO FORMULA
> >
> > Look!
> > We’ve just buffed sprint enough, which sounds like a cluster–Yoink-, but it matches EXACTLY with the original halo formula.
> > Holy -Yoink-!
> > Who knew that solving the sprint problem, was not to take it away, but to add more to it!
>
> As I said above, buffing sprint to where it is just a speed boost button will just make it redundant as you can achieve the same thing by increasing base movement and removing the speed boost/sprint button feature. At the point you are going for, sprint is just as useless as it is when it is nerfed all to hell, so why even have it in the first place?

We aren’t here to appease them, we are here to blind them.
Not negatively, but make them feel like sprint is still in the game, but it really isn’t.
If that makes sense,

Disclaimer: I may sound slightly psychopathic in this post.

13939

Since I have been lurking a long time, I would like to tell you all my observations with this thread.
When this forum was like 100 pages back, it was MUCH more toxic and people just calling each other shills and bungie fanboys and really bad arguments that don’t make this debate any helpful, such as, “halo needs to evolve because everybody finds the older game boring, you all are nostalgia blinded”
I’ve played a lot of halo 2 PC and it’s my only halo game I’ve ever played and I can tell you the people in project cartographer STILL to this very day play halo 2 because they love the mechanics… Specifically no sprint.
So now I’ve cleared that, I want to talk specifically about this thread.
This thread, is now more suggestive based rather than argumentative. People are starting to suggest things, rather than have a back and forth debate, apart from every now and again.
The “anti” sprint side, seems to be more convincing and more factual and statistically more dominant, which is surprising because stereo-typically this used to be a “343 shill page”, which this thread clearly contradicts.
I’ve seen anti-sprint players often even convince pro-sprint players that sprint should be eradicated from halo, and it’s joyful to see.

We’ve seen discussions like, having things like a middle ground, putting an end to the “halo needs to evolve argument”.

On the other hand, games like quake DO need to evolve, as every single quake is pretty much dead, with quake live has only 200 players currently, maybe less.

So, yeah

13940

> 2727626560040591;13912:
> > 2533274913398097;13902:
> > > 2533274825830455;13853:
> > > Interesting. That spreadsheet is pretty convincing even with such a little amount of data, because the differences are so drastic. Keep up the good work. More data to test our beliefs is what we always need.
> >
> > I thought you might like to see the final product:
> >
> > https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1BkmA26fzSDaq4DFcAiKvXf3PazW4aAEoUZewlUm0trw/edit?usp=sharing
> >
> > I’ll make a full post later, but the basics are this:
> >
> > Halo 3’s matches last, on average, 2 minutes and 36.05 seconds less than Halo 5’s matches.
> >
> > The average time between kills in Halo 3 is 3.44 seconds. The average time between kills in Halo 5 is 5.04 seconds.
> >
> > Side note: While skimming through Halo 5 Truth matches, I caught a funny quote by Strongside describing Truth as “Midship on steroids, because Halo 5 is so fast paced.” It’s actually the opposite.
>
> It’s pretty crazy when you normally think H3 is pretty slow. I hope someone who can actually do something sees this cause this is why sprint and other abilities like thrust in its current form for example aren’t good for the game.

Its hard to come to conclusions based just on these numbers. So many other things factor into the pace of a match.

It would be really interesting to get reach and halo 4 in there somehow.

Yet, I have to wonder what definition of fast paced is being used. A 10 second snail race compared to a 30 second dog race. Which is fact paced?

13941

[deleted]

13942

> 2535464451695009;13941:
> > 2535449545792902;13935:
> > Halo 5 was the compromise though,and it caused just as many problems as it fixed.
>
> I don’t think so, since we still play games of cat-and-mouse. If it was a compromise, they would have nerfed it even more than they had buffed it with much needed mechanics such as desprint.
>
> Personally, I like thrusters as a Halo mechanics much much more than sprint, but as a whole, the gameplay needs a big rework in its current state to be considered Halo-esque.

“To be considered Halo-esque”. What’s that supposed to mean? I’d imagine that different people have some big disagreements on what even is “Halo-esque”.

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> > > Halo 5 was the compromise though,and it caused just as many problems as it fixed.
> >
> > I don’t think so, since we still play games of cat-and-mouse. If it was a compromise, they would have nerfed it even more than they had buffed it with much needed mechanics such as desprint.
> >
> > Personally, I like thrusters as a Halo mechanics much much more than sprint, but as a whole, the gameplay needs a big rework in its current state to be considered Halo-esque.
>
> “To be considered Halo-esque”. What’s that supposed to mean? I’d imagine that different people have some big disagreements on what even is “Halo-esque”.

I would say it entails a limited set of movement abilities, slightly airy movement, and a high TTK. That’s just gameplay-wise, but I’d also say that a semi gloomy art style is necessary too.