The sprint discussion thread

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> > > > > > > > > > Although H5G is still making money…thanks to the Req Packs?!?
> > > > > > > > > > It seems like the Halo community is just the core fans now.
> > > > > > > > > > A smaller but fanatic group who will be here to the end.
> > > > > > > > > > I honestly think there is no fix, sprint or non-sprint that brings back the glory days.
> > > > > > > > > > Removing sprint just feels like condemning the future to BR starts, Midship, Ascension and Lockout till the end of eternity.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > What does Req Packs have to do with gameplay mechanics?
> > > > > > > > > Don’t you think they could make money with microtransactions in a classic game all the same?
> > > > > > > > > Even so, how much money have they made through Reqs? A quick google search sais 1.5 Million in February. Let’s be generous and round that up to 2M by now.
> > > > > > > > > H5G has sold around 2.5 Million copies less than even ODST. With 60$ per copy (In the US, that is. Here in Europe, I’m paying 80€ for any new game release) that alone accounts for 150 Million Dollars less revenue than the next-best-selling Halo title, which even was a spinoff-title. The difference only gets worse when you compare it to Halo 4 or Reach. Those few bucks from Reqs are peanuts compared to that.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Halo 5 sold over five million copies. Try again.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If you honestly think 343 is being truthful about Halo’s sales, I have some news for you…
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I used to have several links confirming this statement, but I lost them. I did read several places where they show they total sales, but they are not accurate because they don’t count digital sales, and that is how a lot of people buy games now.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > What do you mean “confirming”? 343 has proven to be the most untrustworthy and corrupt game development company, IMO. Even an ‘official’ statement from Microsoft I’d take with a grain of salt. 343 and MS want people to believe Halo 5 is still doing great, buy why is there no multiplayer population counter to show off Halo’s high player count, and why is Halo 6 rumored to come to the PC if Halo’s sales are so fantastic?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > H5 ranks 11th in total population, (as of May), which is beating Bo3 in player count on both X1 and PS4 combined.
> > >
> > >
> > > Uh, what?
> > >
> > > BO3 has (unfortunately) been #1 on xbl and psn since the day it launched.
> >
> >
> > I’m confused by this as well. What source is he getting that statistic from and if it’s true,(which I don’t think it is) what are the top 10 games?
>
>
> The only one I’ve found showing the Bo3 statistic is Steam, but I’m currently looking for the article that shows H5 at 11th in total population.

Steam. Just stop bud. PC has way better games than BO3, and the COD games on PC are always bad.

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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Although H5G is still making money…thanks to the Req Packs?!?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > It seems like the Halo community is just the core fans now.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > A smaller but fanatic group who will be here to the end.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I honestly think there is no fix, sprint or non-sprint that brings back the glory days.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Removing sprint just feels like condemning the future to BR starts, Midship, Ascension and Lockout till the end of eternity.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > What does Req Packs have to do with gameplay mechanics?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Don’t you think they could make money with microtransactions in a classic game all the same?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Even so, how much money have they made through Reqs? A quick google search sais 1.5 Million in February. Let’s be generous and round that up to 2M by now.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > H5G has sold around 2.5 Million copies less than even ODST. With 60$ per copy (In the US, that is. Here in Europe, I’m paying 80€ for any new game release) that alone accounts for 150 Million Dollars less revenue than the next-best-selling Halo title, which even was a spinoff-title. The difference only gets worse when you compare it to Halo 4 or Reach. Those few bucks from Reqs are peanuts compared to that.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Halo 5 sold over five million copies. Try again.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > If you honestly think 343 is being truthful about Halo’s sales, I have some news for you…
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I used to have several links confirming this statement, but I lost them. I did read several places where they show they total sales, but they are not accurate because they don’t count digital sales, and that is how a lot of people buy games now.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > What do you mean “confirming”? 343 has proven to be the most untrustworthy and corrupt game development company, IMO. Even an ‘official’ statement from Microsoft I’d take with a grain of salt. 343 and MS want people to believe Halo 5 is still doing great, buy why is there no multiplayer population counter to show off Halo’s high player count, and why is Halo 6 rumored to come to the PC if Halo’s sales are so fantastic?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > H5 ranks 11th in total population, (as of May), which is beating Bo3 in player count on both X1 and PS4 combined.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Uh, what?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > BO3 has (unfortunately) been #1 on xbl and psn since the day it launched.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I’m confused by this as well. What source is he getting that statistic from and if it’s true,(which I don’t think it is) what are the top 10 games?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > The only one I’ve found showing the Bo3 statistic is Steam, but I’m currently looking for the article that shows H5 at 11th in total population.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Steam is PC and you can check the most popular games on the Xbox store at any time. Most popular , most players and we use this in correlation with other games that have pop counters to get this info BF4 and SWBF for example.
> > > >
> > > > Back on topic.
> > > >
> > > > We’ve only witnessed the general interest in these modern games decline recently… Any reasons? Could it be a sprint/ wall climbing double jumping based gameplay is less appealing to the mass gamer than the original product that held so many players for so long? It’s time to adapt to a new play style, one without sprint.
> > >
> > >
> > > “Most popular” is not a population chart. Not in any way. That’s based on user reviews or some sort of strange metric.
> > >
> > > The “most played” list has been removed from the store. That was a population chart.
> >
> >
> > Most Popular may not be based on UU, but it was consistent with the Most Played. Most Popular isn’t based on reviews, ratings or copies sold and it’s not hard to just look at find that out. It’s based on some sort of population, whether unique users or non unique, over the last week. At the very least, it’s based on play time. It is based on people playing the game though.
>
>
> It was not consistent with most played at all.
>
> That’s why Bo3 wouldn’t always fall low on “most popular”. Just like how it’s user reviews on metacritic or steam are always low.

Most Popular accounts for the last week. It’s highs on Most Played were likely much higher than those of other games, so even if it fell, it wouldn’t have meant a very low population.

Thats why big, new games on Most Popular take about a week before they’re in the top 10-15. That’s why Halo 5 gained a couple spots a few days after the XGames (or whatever that sporting event was that had Halo 5 in it). That’s why popular MP games stay pretty consistent, while non open world SP games rise and fall quickly.

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> > > > > > > > > > > > Although H5G is still making money…thanks to the Req Packs?!?
> > > > > > > > > > > > It seems like the Halo community is just the core fans now.
> > > > > > > > > > > > A smaller but fanatic group who will be here to the end.
> > > > > > > > > > > > I honestly think there is no fix, sprint or non-sprint that brings back the glory days.
> > > > > > > > > > > > Removing sprint just feels like condemning the future to BR starts, Midship, Ascension and Lockout till the end of eternity.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > What does Req Packs have to do with gameplay mechanics?
> > > > > > > > > > > Don’t you think they could make money with microtransactions in a classic game all the same?
> > > > > > > > > > > Even so, how much money have they made through Reqs? A quick google search sais 1.5 Million in February. Let’s be generous and round that up to 2M by now.
> > > > > > > > > > > H5G has sold around 2.5 Million copies less than even ODST. With 60$ per copy (In the US, that is. Here in Europe, I’m paying 80€ for any new game release) that alone accounts for 150 Million Dollars less revenue than the next-best-selling Halo title, which even was a spinoff-title. The difference only gets worse when you compare it to Halo 4 or Reach. Those few bucks from Reqs are peanuts compared to that.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Halo 5 sold over five million copies. Try again.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > If you honestly think 343 is being truthful about Halo’s sales, I have some news for you…
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > They wouldn’t outright lie about a concrete statistic. And whatever news you have for me, Icarus, is probably not the most reliable. I seem to recall about a month ago, you trying to make an argument about Halo’s popularity by comparing Machinima views of a video that’s been out for eight years vs a couple months. Here is the counter to that, in case you missed it.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You’re right, which is why it was specifically stated that Halo 5 SHIPPED over 5 million copies. You can reach your own conclusion as to why that makes a significant difference, but the piles of Collector’s Edition games and consoles sitting at local Gamestops and Best Buys might offer a hint.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If you’re implying that Halo 5 had a massive return rate, then I’d like to remind you that selling your game back is nothing new to Halo or video gaming in general.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > No, I’m referring to UNSOLD collector’s editions. New ones. The distinction between “shipped” and “sold” has absolutely no relevance to the used game market. Used games have already been sold.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Source? My first source clearly states “sold” and Frankie didn’t say specify either way.
> > >
> > >
> > > No, your first source says sold. then someone in response says “5m shipped at the end of 2015,” to which said source says “same thing.” So, yes, it’s 5 million SHIPPED, not sold through. And of course Frankie didn’t specify. He never does. He always says vague nonsense that could be interpreted a bunch of different ways with a slant that implies but doesn’t confirm something favorable for 343.
> >
> >
> > They are pretty much the same thing. How do you know exactly what is meant by shipped? Regardless, you have yet to provide a clear source for the five million figure being shipped, including unsold units. So far, it sounds like you’re just speculating.
>
>
> No, they aren’t. It only has one definition in this context, which is the number that was sent to retail. Literally YOUR OWN SOURCE acknowledges that it is the number shipped and every other source I have seen says 5 million shipped. So, maybe YOU should provide a clear source for 5 million SOLD. As for speculation, the only reason a company like 343 has to hide sold through numbers and only talk about units shipped is if the number of games actually sold to customers is less impressive. I’m not speculating what that difference might be, I’m pointing out the objective fact that the difference exists and they are purposefully obfuscating it.

Link me to the tweet where he acknowledges that he made a mistake and that the figures are of shipped. All I’m seeing in the Twitter replies are more debates. I already provided a clear source, in the form of Frank O’Conner. I’ve at least provided a source at all. You still haven’t provided me with one other source where it states five million shipped. The only things you have provided are a Twitter debate, a red herring, and a lot of speculation.

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> > > > > > > > > > > > > Although H5G is still making money…thanks to the Req Packs?!?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > It seems like the Halo community is just the core fans now.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > A smaller but fanatic group who will be here to the end.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I honestly think there is no fix, sprint or non-sprint that brings back the glory days.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Removing sprint just feels like condemning the future to BR starts, Midship, Ascension and Lockout till the end of eternity.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > What does Req Packs have to do with gameplay mechanics?
> > > > > > > > > > > > Don’t you think they could make money with microtransactions in a classic game all the same?
> > > > > > > > > > > > Even so, how much money have they made through Reqs? A quick google search sais 1.5 Million in February. Let’s be generous and round that up to 2M by now.
> > > > > > > > > > > > H5G has sold around 2.5 Million copies less than even ODST. With 60$ per copy (In the US, that is. Here in Europe, I’m paying 80€ for any new game release) that alone accounts for 150 Million Dollars less revenue than the next-best-selling Halo title, which even was a spinoff-title. The difference only gets worse when you compare it to Halo 4 or Reach. Those few bucks from Reqs are peanuts compared to that.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Halo 5 sold over five million copies. Try again.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > If you honestly think 343 is being truthful about Halo’s sales, I have some news for you…
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > They wouldn’t outright lie about a concrete statistic. And whatever news you have for me, Icarus, is probably not the most reliable. I seem to recall about a month ago, you trying to make an argument about Halo’s popularity by comparing Machinima views of a video that’s been out for eight years vs a couple months. Here is the counter to that, in case you missed it.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > You’re right, which is why it was specifically stated that Halo 5 SHIPPED over 5 million copies. You can reach your own conclusion as to why that makes a significant difference, but the piles of Collector’s Edition games and consoles sitting at local Gamestops and Best Buys might offer a hint.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If you’re implying that Halo 5 had a massive return rate, then I’d like to remind you that selling your game back is nothing new to Halo or video gaming in general.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > No, I’m referring to UNSOLD collector’s editions. New ones. The distinction between “shipped” and “sold” has absolutely no relevance to the used game market. Used games have already been sold.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Source? My first source clearly states “sold” and Frankie didn’t say specify either way.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > No, your first source says sold. then someone in response says “5m shipped at the end of 2015,” to which said source says “same thing.” So, yes, it’s 5 million SHIPPED, not sold through. And of course Frankie didn’t specify. He never does. He always says vague nonsense that could be interpreted a bunch of different ways with a slant that implies but doesn’t confirm something favorable for 343.
> > >
> > >
> > > They are pretty much the same thing. How do you know exactly what is meant by shipped? Regardless, you have yet to provide a clear source for the five million figure being shipped, including unsold units. So far, it sounds like you’re just speculating.
> >
> >
> > No, they aren’t. It only has one definition in this context, which is the number that was sent to retail. Literally YOUR OWN SOURCE acknowledges that it is the number shipped and every other source I have seen says 5 million shipped. So, maybe YOU should provide a clear source for 5 million SOLD. As for speculation, the only reason a company like 343 has to hide sold through numbers and only talk about units shipped is if the number of games actually sold to customers is less impressive. I’m not speculating what that difference might be, I’m pointing out the objective fact that the difference exists and they are purposefully obfuscating it.
>
>
> Link me to the tweet where he acknowledges that he made a mistake and that the figures are of shipped. All I’m seeing in the Twitter replies are more debates. I already provided a clear source, in the form of Frank O’Conner. I’ve at least provided a source at all. You still haven’t provided me with one other source where it states five million shipped. The only things you have provided are a Twitter debate, a red herring, and a lot of speculation.

You’re either being extremely disingenuous or really thick. The “twitter debate” is your source. In which the source (citing no source of his own) strongly infers that the numbers is shipped. Which is why he says “same thing” and then “eh, I didn’t specify either tbh” in response to saying that “sold” is misleading. YOUR (QUESTIONABLE) SOURCE SAYS SHIPPED. Frank was by no means clear, as usual, and you can bet good money that he would never specify which. I don’t think you know what a red herring is and my “speculation” is obvious inference based on the facts and 343’s behavior.

There is minimal evidence to suggest that these are sold through numbers. There is no reputable source to be found on the sales of the game and all evidence points to this number being total “shipped.” For example:

[Is Halo 5 Really a Blockbuster? It’s Hard to Tell

](http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-11-23/is-halo-5-really-a-blockbuster-it-s-hard-to-tell)So, why is it that you think they would lump in significantly more expensive collector’s edition consoles and merchandise (including the most expensive game CE in series history), when they’ve never done that for any previous game? Hmmm. It’s a mystery. I’m sorry. Would that be… speculation?

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> > > > > > > > > Although H5G is still making money…thanks to the Req Packs?!?
> > > > > > > > > It seems like the Halo community is just the core fans now.
> > > > > > > > > A smaller but fanatic group who will be here to the end.
> > > > > > > > > I honestly think there is no fix, sprint or non-sprint that brings back the glory days.
> > > > > > > > > Removing sprint just feels like condemning the future to BR starts, Midship, Ascension and Lockout till the end of eternity.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > What does Req Packs have to do with gameplay mechanics?
> > > > > > > > Don’t you think they could make money with microtransactions in a classic game all the same?
> > > > > > > > Even so, how much money have they made through Reqs? A quick google search sais 1.5 Million in February. Let’s be generous and round that up to 2M by now.
> > > > > > > > H5G has sold around 2.5 Million copies less than even ODST. With 60$ per copy (In the US, that is. Here in Europe, I’m paying 80€ for any new game release) that alone accounts for 150 Million Dollars less revenue than the next-best-selling Halo title, which even was a spinoff-title. The difference only gets worse when you compare it to Halo 4 or Reach. Those few bucks from Reqs are peanuts compared to that.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Halo 5 sold over five million copies. Try again.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If you honestly think 343 is being truthful about Halo’s sales, I have some news for you…
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I used to have several links confirming this statement, but I lost them. I did read several places where they show they total sales, but they are not accurate because they don’t count digital sales, and that is how a lot of people buy games now.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > What do you mean “confirming”? 343 has proven to be the most untrustworthy and corrupt game development company, IMO. Even an ‘official’ statement from Microsoft I’d take with a grain of salt. 343 and MS want people to believe Halo 5 is still doing great, buy why is there no multiplayer population counter to show off Halo’s high player count, and why is Halo 6 rumored to come to the PC if Halo’s sales are so fantastic?
> > >
> > >
> > > H5 ranks 11th in total population, (as of May), which is beating Bo3 in player count on both X1 and PS4 combined.
> >
> >
> > Uh, what?
> >
> > BO3 has (unfortunately) been #1 on xbl and psn since the day it launched.
>
>
> I’m confused by this as well. What source is he getting that statistic from and if it’s true,(which I don’t think it is) what are the top 10 games?

Here is the link for the XBL most popular list. I really wouldn’t base any opinion off it though.

> 2535414876585185;1:
> Halo 6 could be the game EVERYONE wants by removing sprint in campaign (yes because who the -Yoink- needs TWO movement speeds in campaign???) and
> arena multiplayer at first I thought a no sprint playlist might be optimal but hear me out. I pretty sure the new spartan abilities (save -Yoinking!- spartan charge) would be GENERALLY accepted in a halo game if they werent accompanied by sprint it would feel more competitive more strategic and would also still be recognizable to the fine tuned experience we got in halo 5. Warzone and customs would be a whole other beast entirely retaining ALL the features that made halo 5 successful would keep warzone great and would also allow more options for custom games, for those people that actually wanted to play in a sprint arena type setting they could actually fire up the in game custom game lobby adjust the filter and be good to go! lets face it, sprint has NO place in competitve halo and to argue that it does would just be absurd. this would allow arena maps to continue to be designed the PROPER way and please the vets and basically everyone whos willing to give it a chance and you wouldnt lose much of your sprint loving audience at all because there would still be sprint in the game it would just take a backseat!
> Thoughts? :3

You make a lot of sense, I especially agree that I enjoy the other Spartan abilities with the exception of Spartan charge (worst gameplay mechanic/Spartan ability by a mile ). I think sprint is fine tbh I like the way the nerfed it from halo 4 and I really like the slide that you can do after sprint/thrust , but I wouldn’t be sad at all if it was gone in the next game. I like to suggest solutions in posts to be constructive, check out this post I had in a similar thread and tell me what you think:

I totally get where you’re coming from. I could go either way on sprint, I like the feature and use it effectively when I can but wouldn’t be sad if it went away. I have a couple reasons for liking and disliking it… I think it’s a good tactical mechanic to add another layer of evasion and movement to combat. And I’m not convinced that’s what ruined arena map design - I’ve read a lot of the arguments but I’ve never seen like a forge comparison of a dev map designed around sprint vs a version of the same map that isn’t “elongated” and used without sprint and how gameplay is affected (but can someone please do that???). Personally I think there were a few Reach maps that were great (Zealot, countdown, powerhouse), so it seems more like crappy map designs rather than the mechanic that is at fault. I think a few classic maps with updated (not perfectly 1:1 recreations) would play really well. A good example is the Narrows remake I have on my file share - have played 2 hour long customs on that map w/ regular H5 rules and enjoyed the hell out of it.
That being said, Ive been playing DOOM a lot and it makes an EXCELLENTLY case for why sprint is unnecessary. The fast base movement is pretty exhilarating and makes the game feel pretty hardcore. Gameplay is fast and it frees up a button since there is no sprint function, and I really enjoy it. And halo ce\2 are my favorite games, upping base movement by 10% increments makes them feel on a similar level of brutal and fast.
It drives me nuts when people post on threads about their opinions but don’t offer any ideas for a solution (no offense to anyone), so I’d like to share a couple thoughts I have for resolving the problem :

  1. Remove sprint and put base speed somewhere in between H2/H3 mlg speed and doom’s speed, simply
  2. Keep thruster packs and focus more on using lateral thrust for evasion/ movement instead of sprint. Maybe increase the distance thruster pack propels a spartan by 10-20%. Might improve map design too, if you believe that sprint is the source of the terrible map design.
  3. Remove sprint, Make thruster have a bit of an overcharge, almost like the boost on a ghost. What I mean by that is: instead of sprint, hold the thruster button for an extended/faster distance traveled, lasts for 2-4 seconds, has a longer cool down time compared to a regular thrust. Essentially a very short version of a ghosts boost. You have to make the decision to hold the button and committing to a trajectory IF you want to use it. COULD THIS BE AN ALTERNATIVE THAT STRIKES A MIDDLE GROUND BETWEEN SPRINT LOVERS AND HATERS??
  4. Keep sprint but Take Truth as an example - it is a remake of a classic map, but it isn’t a perfect replica - it has been tweaked and adjusted for the new movements. I think it is one of 3 decent maps in the whole game, and I think there are a number of classic maps that would play PHENOMENAL with adjustments for H5 mechanics. I think the flaws in map design come from a lack of knowledge about previous maps that were popular AND competitive, and from 343 trying to separate themselves from bungie. I think these are more of a culprit than sprint in the flawed map design of H5
  5. Keep sprint or remove, but please please PLEASE for the love of all things holy and unholy, get rid of Spartan charge and bury it in an unmarked grave. That is the ability that chaps my -Yoink- more than all of the rest combined.

I like how you say EVERYONE when that’s clearly not the case here. YOU WILL HAVE PLAYERS WHO WILL ADAPT TO THESE THINGS.

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> > > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274839169051;1185:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Although H5G is still making money…thanks to the Req Packs?!?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > It seems like the Halo community is just the core fans now.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > A smaller but fanatic group who will be here to the end.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I honestly think there is no fix, sprint or non-sprint that brings back the glory days.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Removing sprint just feels like condemning the future to BR starts, Midship, Ascension and Lockout till the end of eternity.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > What does Req Packs have to do with gameplay mechanics?
> > > > > > > > > > > > Don’t you think they could make money with microtransactions in a classic game all the same?
> > > > > > > > > > > > Even so, how much money have they made through Reqs? A quick google search sais 1.5 Million in February. Let’s be generous and round that up to 2M by now.
> > > > > > > > > > > > H5G has sold around 2.5 Million copies less than even ODST. With 60$ per copy (In the US, that is. Here in Europe, I’m paying 80€ for any new game release) that alone accounts for 150 Million Dollars less revenue than the next-best-selling Halo title, which even was a spinoff-title. The difference only gets worse when you compare it to Halo 4 or Reach. Those few bucks from Reqs are peanuts compared to that.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Halo 5 sold over five million copies. Try again.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > If you honestly think 343 is being truthful about Halo’s sales, I have some news for you…
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I used to have several links confirming this statement, but I lost them. I did read several places where they show they total sales, but they are not accurate because they don’t count digital sales, and that is how a lot of people buy games now.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > What do you mean “confirming”? 343 has proven to be the most untrustworthy and corrupt game development company, IMO. Even an ‘official’ statement from Microsoft I’d take with a grain of salt. 343 and MS want people to believe Halo 5 is still doing great, buy why is there no multiplayer population counter to show off Halo’s high player count, and why is Halo 6 rumored to come to the PC if Halo’s sales are so fantastic?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > H5 ranks 11th in total population, (as of May), which is beating Bo3 in player count on both X1 and PS4 combined.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Uh, what?
> > > > > > BO3 has (unfortunately) been #1 on xbl and psn since the day it launched.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I’m confused by this as well. What source is he getting that statistic from and if it’s true,(which I don’t think it is) what are the top 10 games?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The only one I’ve found showing the Bo3 statistic is Steam, but I’m currently looking for the article that shows H5 at 11th in total population.
> > >
> > >
> > > Steam is PC and you can check the most popular games on the Xbox store at any time. Most popular , most players and we use this in correlation with other games that have pop counters to get this info BF4 and SWBF for example.
> > > Back on topic.
> > > We’ve only witnessed the general interest in these modern games decline recently… Any reasons? Could it be a sprint/ wall climbing double jumping based gameplay is less appealing to the mass gamer than the original product that held so many players for so long? It’s time to adapt to a new play style, one without sprint.
> >
> >
> > “Most popular” is not a population chart. Not in any way. That’s based on user reviews or some sort of strange metric.
> > The “most played” list has been removed from the store. That was a population chart.
>
>
> Most Popular may not be based on UU, but it was consistent with the Most Played. Most Popular isn’t based on reviews, ratings or copies sold and it’s not hard to just look at find that out. It’s based on some sort of population, whether unique users or non unique, over the last week. At the very least, it’s based on play time. It is based on people playing the game though.

I never saw the two matching up and often times they significant differences between the two. I remember mortal combat being #1 or #2 on most popular for a bit while it wasn’t on the most played list at all.

> 2533274919210647;1366:
> > 2535414876585185;1:
> > Halo 6 could be the game EVERYONE wants by removing sprint in campaign (yes because who the -Yoink- needs TWO movement speeds in campaign???) and
> > arena multiplayer at first I thought a no sprint playlist might be optimal but hear me out. I pretty sure the new spartan abilities (save -Yoinking!- spartan charge) would be GENERALLY accepted in a halo game if they werent accompanied by sprint it would feel more competitive more strategic and would also still be recognizable to the fine tuned experience we got in halo 5. Warzone and customs would be a whole other beast entirely retaining ALL the features that made halo 5 successful would keep warzone great and would also allow more options for custom games, for those people that actually wanted to play in a sprint arena type setting they could actually fire up the in game custom game lobby adjust the filter and be good to go! lets face it, sprint has NO place in competitve halo and to argue that it does would just be absurd. this would allow arena maps to continue to be designed the PROPER way and please the vets and basically everyone whos willing to give it a chance and you wouldnt lose much of your sprint loving audience at all because there would still be sprint in the game it would just take a backseat!
> > Thoughts? :3
>
>
> You make a lot of sense, I especially agree that I enjoy the other Spartan abilities with the exception of Spartan charge (worst gameplay mechanic/Spartan ability by a mile ). I think sprint is fine tbh I like the way the nerfed it from halo 4 and I really like the slide that you can do after sprint/thrust , but I wouldn’t be sad at all if it was gone in the next game. I like to suggest solutions in posts to be constructive, check out this post I had in a similar thread and tell me what you think:
>
> I totally get where you’re coming from. I could go either way on sprint, I like the feature and use it effectively when I can but wouldn’t be sad if it went away. I have a couple reasons for liking and disliking it… I think it’s a good tactical mechanic to add another layer of evasion and movement to combat. And I’m not convinced that’s what ruined arena map design - I’ve read a lot of the arguments but I’ve never seen like a forge comparison of a dev map designed around sprint vs a version of the same map that isn’t “elongated” and used without sprint and how gameplay is affected (but can someone please do that???). Personally I think there were a few Reach maps that were great (Zealot, countdown, powerhouse), so it seems more like crappy map designs rather than the mechanic that is at fault. I think a few classic maps with updated (not perfectly 1:1 recreations) would play really well. A good example is the Narrows remake I have on my file share - have played 2 hour long customs on that map w/ regular H5 rules and enjoyed the hell out of it.
> That being said, Ive been playing DOOM a lot and it makes an EXCELLENTLY case for why sprint is unnecessary. The fast base movement is pretty exhilarating and makes the game feel pretty hardcore. Gameplay is fast and it frees up a button since there is no sprint function, and I really enjoy it. And halo ce\2 are my favorite games, upping base movement by 10% increments makes them feel on a similar level of brutal and fast.
> It drives me nuts when people post on threads about their opinions but don’t offer any ideas for a solution (no offense to anyone), so I’d like to share a couple thoughts I have for resolving the problem :
> 1. Remove sprint and put base speed somewhere in between H2/H3 mlg speed and doom’s speed, simply
> 2. Keep thruster packs and focus more on using lateral thrust for evasion/ movement instead of sprint. Maybe increase the distance thruster pack propels a spartan by 10-20%. Might improve map design too, if you believe that sprint is the source of the terrible map design.
> 3. Remove sprint, Make thruster have a bit of an overcharge, almost like the boost on a ghost. What I mean by that is: instead of sprint, hold the thruster button for an extended/faster distance traveled, lasts for 2-4 seconds, has a longer cool down time compared to a regular thrust. Essentially a very short version of a ghosts boost. You have to make the decision to hold the button and committing to a trajectory IF you want to use it. COULD THIS BE AN ALTERNATIVE THAT STRIKES A MIDDLE GROUND BETWEEN SPRINT LOVERS AND HATERS??
> 4. Keep sprint but Take Truth as an example - it is a remake of a classic map, but it isn’t a perfect replica - it has been tweaked and adjusted for the new movements. I think it is one of 3 decent maps in the whole game, and I think there are a number of classic maps that would play PHENOMENAL with adjustments for H5 mechanics. I think the flaws in map design come from a lack of knowledge about previous maps that were popular AND competitive, and from 343 trying to separate themselves from bungie. I think these are more of a culprit than sprint in the flawed map design of H5
> 5. Keep sprint or remove, but please please PLEASE for the love of all things holy and unholy, get rid of Spartan charge and bury it in an unmarked grave. That is the ability that chaps my -Yoink- more than all of the rest combined.

Spartan Charge does the same amount of damage as a regular melee. I don’t see it being used in mm very often and I sometimes forget it’s there. I think that the biggest problem (besides lack of fun game modes) is the short radar range.

> 2535466914543129;1369:
> Spartan Charge does the same amount of damage as a regular melee.

FALSE. Melee does not do health damage. If you try to counter-melee a charge, you will be at a disadvantage. You’ve played how much of this game without noticing that?

> 2533274808669104;1129:
> > 2533274954421068;1128:
> > OMG kill this topic with fire, pls
>
>
> Glad you had so much to add. PS. stating you like or dislike a mechanic does in no way make your point valid. Its not a point its an opinion. My favorite economist has three questions useful in almost any argument, for those who want or would not want sprint examine your own position. Compared to what? At what cost? What hard evidence do you have?
>
> To Pro Sprint:
> Traditional halo, “old” games, Doom CSGO OW etc…
>
> Highly open to argument, but Id argue that ignoring the massive decline in the general interest in halo coupled with the implementation of “modern” mechanics is bordering on intellectual dishonesty. Popular does in no way = better but there surly is something going on here.
>
> We have the population data, sales data (sans some very vague H5 data) and the knowledge that the game has been off the MLG circuit since Reach, unless of course we self fund through req packs, essentially 343 forcing the game into their own niche stage.

I am not trying to make a point, I am sick of this topic, the community needs to talk about more pressing matters, like bugs in games, The WZ firefight update, this topic just wastes so many people’s time.

Face it, sprint is here to stay. I love previous titles as much as anyone. Doesn’t mean games can’t move with the times. Otherwise we’d all still be playing
PAC-MAN, SPACE INVADERS ETC.

> 2533274954421068;1371:
> > 2533274808669104;1129:
> > > 2533274954421068;1128:
> > > OMG kill this topic with fire, pls
> >
> >
> > Glad you had so much to add. PS. stating you like or dislike a mechanic does in no way make your point valid. Its not a point its an opinion. My favorite economist has three questions useful in almost any argument, for those who want or would not want sprint examine your own position. Compared to what? At what cost? What hard evidence do you have?
> >
> > To Pro Sprint:
> > Traditional halo, “old” games, Doom CSGO OW etc…
> >
> > Highly open to argument, but Id argue that ignoring the massive decline in the general interest in halo coupled with the implementation of “modern” mechanics is bordering on intellectual dishonesty. Popular does in no way = better but there surly is something going on here.
> >
> > We have the population data, sales data (sans some very vague H5 data) and the knowledge that the game has been off the MLG circuit since Reach, unless of course we self fund through req packs, essentially 343 forcing the game into their own niche stage.
>
>
> I am not trying to make a point, I am sick of this topic, the community needs to talk about more pressing matters, like bugs in games, The WZ firefight update, this topic just wastes so many people’s time.

For many of us, sprint is the more pressing matter.

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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Although H5G is still making money…thanks to the Req Packs?!?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > It seems like the Halo community is just the core fans now.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > A smaller but fanatic group who will be here to the end.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I honestly think there is no fix, sprint or non-sprint that brings back the glory days.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Removing sprint just feels like condemning the future to BR starts, Midship, Ascension and Lockout till the end of eternity.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > What does Req Packs have to do with gameplay mechanics?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Don’t you think they could make money with microtransactions in a classic game all the same?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Even so, how much money have they made through Reqs? A quick google search sais 1.5 Million in February. Let’s be generous and round that up to 2M by now.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > H5G has sold around 2.5 Million copies less than even ODST. With 60$ per copy (In the US, that is. Here in Europe, I’m paying 80€ for any new game release) that alone accounts for 150 Million Dollars less revenue than the next-best-selling Halo title, which even was a spinoff-title. The difference only gets worse when you compare it to Halo 4 or Reach. Those few bucks from Reqs are peanuts compared to that.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Halo 5 sold over five million copies. Try again.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > If you honestly think 343 is being truthful about Halo’s sales, I have some news for you…
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > They wouldn’t outright lie about a concrete statistic. And whatever news you have for me, Icarus, is probably not the most reliable. I seem to recall about a month ago, you trying to make an argument about Halo’s popularity by comparing Machinima views of a video that’s been out for eight years vs a couple months. Here is the counter to that, in case you missed it.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > You’re right, which is why it was specifically stated that Halo 5 SHIPPED over 5 million copies. You can reach your own conclusion as to why that makes a significant difference, but the piles of Collector’s Edition games and consoles sitting at local Gamestops and Best Buys might offer a hint.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If you’re implying that Halo 5 had a massive return rate, then I’d like to remind you that selling your game back is nothing new to Halo or video gaming in general.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > No, I’m referring to UNSOLD collector’s editions. New ones. The distinction between “shipped” and “sold” has absolutely no relevance to the used game market. Used games have already been sold.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Source? My first source clearly states “sold” and Frankie didn’t say specify either way.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > No, your first source says sold. then someone in response says “5m shipped at the end of 2015,” to which said source says “same thing.” So, yes, it’s 5 million SHIPPED, not sold through. And of course Frankie didn’t specify. He never does. He always says vague nonsense that could be interpreted a bunch of different ways with a slant that implies but doesn’t confirm something favorable for 343.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > They are pretty much the same thing. How do you know exactly what is meant by shipped? Regardless, you have yet to provide a clear source for the five million figure being shipped, including unsold units. So far, it sounds like you’re just speculating.
> > >
> > >
> > > No, they aren’t. It only has one definition in this context, which is the number that was sent to retail. Literally YOUR OWN SOURCE acknowledges that it is the number shipped and every other source I have seen says 5 million shipped. So, maybe YOU should provide a clear source for 5 million SOLD. As for speculation, the only reason a company like 343 has to hide sold through numbers and only talk about units shipped is if the number of games actually sold to customers is less impressive. I’m not speculating what that difference might be, I’m pointing out the objective fact that the difference exists and they are purposefully obfuscating it.
> >
> >
> > Link me to the tweet where he acknowledges that he made a mistake and that the figures are of shipped. All I’m seeing in the Twitter replies are more debates. I already provided a clear source, in the form of Frank O’Conner. I’ve at least provided a source at all. You still haven’t provided me with one other source where it states five million shipped. The only things you have provided are a Twitter debate, a red herring, and a lot of speculation.
>
>
> You’re either being extremely disingenuous or really thick. The “twitter debate” is your source. In which the source (citing no source of his own) strongly infers that the numbers is shipped. Which is why he says “same thing” and then “eh, I didn’t specify either tbh” in response to saying that “sold” is misleading. YOUR (QUESTIONABLE) SOURCE SAYS SHIPPED. Frank was by no means clear, as usual, and you can bet good money that he would never specify which. I don’t think you know what a red herring is and my “speculation” is obvious inference based on the facts and 343’s behavior.

The single twitter post is my source. Not all the comments that follow, which are completely irrelevant. I do, in fact, know what a red herring is and you’re using it by talking about why 343 would do what you’re saying, rather than giving proof that they actually did. And Frankie said H5 did 5 million in three months. How much clearer can he get? There is one thing he did not outright state, and that is the word sold. However, you can speculate that he was talking about sales, because there would be no point in mentioning shipments instead.

> There is minimal evidence to suggest that these are sold through numbers.

Same thing can be said of shipping information. Except I have actually provided a firsthand account, while you have still not provided me with anything.

> There is no reputable source to be found on the sales of the game and all evidence points to this number being total “shipped.” For example:

What evidence? You have not provided me with a single quote or article or anything other than what I’ve provided. All you’ve done is attempt to refute my sources. And as franchise developer, I think it’s safe to say that Frank is a reputable source. You can’t just pick and choose what evidence to believe. It makes absolutely no sense that he would just outright lie in a discussion with someone.

> Is Halo 5 Really a Blockbuster? It’s Hard to Tell

This article has nothing to do with the five million figure. Sure, it brings up some valid points about 343s behavior, but does not contain any concrete proof regarding anything we’ve talked about.

> So, why is it that you think they would lump in significantly more expensive collector’s edition consoles and merchandise (including the most expensive game CE in series history), when they’ve never done that for any previous game? Hmmm. It’s a mystery. I’m sorry. Would that be… speculation?

Even if every single person who bought Halo 5 bought the most expensive version (console edition, 500 dollars), then that would mean at least 800,000 people bought Halo 5. However, that’s ludicrous. It does however, look a lot more sensible if a couple million people bought the standard 60 dollar version, with the smaller remaining sum of money being from the people who bought extra merchandise. Yes it’s speculation, as is your claim that five million most likely represents shipments.

While I have noticed a change in multiplayer due to the addition of sprint (most notably in Reach), I enjoy the standardization of spartan abilities that we have now and am glad that each halo has been innovative and not stagnant like other FPS franchises. I stated so in H4 and will state so now, I would like to see arena playlists without spartan abilities with just core mechanics available. That stated I also believe that taking out the sprint mechanic entirely is a extreme move in itself.

> 2533274912359214;1372:
> Face it, sprint is here to stay. I love previous titles as much as anyone. Doesn’t mean games can’t move with the times. Otherwise we’d all still be playing
> PAC-MAN, SPACE INVADERS ETC.

Well the most recent big time FPS release did not have sprint so I guess in order to keep up with the times we need to lose sprint.

> 2533274890584596;1370:
> > 2535466914543129;1369:
> > Spartan Charge does the same amount of damage as a regular melee.
>
>
> FALSE. Melee does not do health damage. If you try to counter-melee a charge, you will be at a disadvantage. You’ve played how much of this game without noticing that?

You still need a second melee on a fully shielded Spartan, usually you can double melee on someone for a quick kill it’s been that way since H2. If you Spartan Charge someone from the front it knocks them back WITHOUT killing them and you lose part of your shield making you more vulnerable in the process. And I have counter-meleed someone Spartan Charging in SWAT and breakout INSTANTLY KILLING them.

> 2535438238115430;1376:
> > 2533274912359214;1372:
> > Face it, sprint is here to stay. I love previous titles as much as anyone. Doesn’t mean games can’t move with the times. Otherwise we’d all still be playing
> > PAC-MAN, SPACE INVADERS ETC.
>
>
> Well the most recent big time FPS release did not have sprint so I guess in order to keep up with the times we need to lose sprint.

Also, the claim about moving with the times makes the bold assumption that adding sprint equates to progress.

No cause what if you have no cover near by and your almost dead sprint is the only alternative

<mark>This post has been edited by a moderator. Please do not post spam.</mark>

*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

Keep sprint