The sprint discussion thread

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> > > There is no reason to have sprint in Halo 6. Halo has thrived without it. Now look what sprinting has done to the Halo community…600+ pages worth of back and forth. I’m surprised there isn’t a 600 page thread discussing thrust and spartan abilites, though. Those need an equal amount of criticism as they do not represent, or belong in Halo.
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> > > As I said before. If any of these non-halo mechanics are in Halo 6, I will be moving on from the franchise. Halo is now a shell of its former greatness, and all for what?..appealing to the call of duty generation?
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> > While I agree with most of what you said, I actually think that the thruster packs feel really good for Halo. They are a logical way for movement to progress, and in my opinion it feels really good in Halo. For me, the perfect formula would be having no sprint, no Spartan charge, no ground pound, (although that’s a very gimmicky mechanic anyways and really doesn’t affect gameplay much, so I don’t really care) increased movement speed and thruster packs. As much as I love Halo 2 and it’s movement, I actually think I prefer thrusters thrown into the mix.
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> > > Other than “because it makes me feel like a Spartan, and they can sprint in the lore”, “it makes me feel faster”, “Halo needs to evolve to compete with modern shooters” (how adding a mechanic that is in nearly EVERY modern shooter game is going to help Halo compete with said modern shooter games, I don’t know), and “it adds options like choosing when and when not to sprint”, I can’t think of any other arguments that I’ve heard from pro-sprinters. Feel free to deconstruct and rebut these arguments as you wish (not that I agree with them, mind you).
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> > Alright, I suppose I’ll give my reasons as to why I don’t agree with those points
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> > -“We should have sprint because it’s in the lore” This is probably the worst argument, considering that Halo was, and is meant to be a game first. The lore is there for people who’d like to hear different stories from the Halo universe. Considering the lore a separate entity from the games, and especially a separate entity from the multiplayer, it would create absolutely stupid balancing issues in game. Weapons can work differently in the lore because it’s a book in multiplayer weapons need to be balanced, and Halo has always done quite a good job of that, with the exception of Halo 4.
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> > **-“It makes us faster”**This is just plain wrong. Sprint is an illusion mechanic that makes you think that you’re faster. The devs have to stretch out maps to accommodate sprint, which means that it still takes the same amount of time to get to places (see: truth/midship) with the only difference being that you can’t use your weapons while traversing those areas.
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> > **-“Halo needs to evolve to compete with modern shooters”**You pretty much hit the nail on the head with this one. People end up liking games that don’t try to imitate better than the ones that do. No one wants to play a game that’s a mess of popular fps fads. It’s more fun to play a game that’s trying to do it’s own thing instead of copying others. Plus, I think that the thrusters were an awesome idea that do feel like a proper evolution of halo, and in my opinion, feel perfect in halo, while also being a unique mechanic that isn’t copied from another Triple-A fps title to appeal to people who play that game.
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> > **-“It adds more depth to the gameplay, because you need to choose when to sprint”**This isn’t true at all. Sure there are times when you should sprint, and times when you shouldn’t, but those are just common sense like when you should crouch, or when you should shoot. The only thing you ever have to choose about when sprinting is if you’ll risk dying since your shields won’t recharge or if you’ll keep trying to fight. Actual depth to gameplay is having to learn trick jumps, good strafes, spawns, and what weapons to use in any given situation. Having to pick when you want to run fast isn’t depth.
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> If Halo 6 doesn’t have sprint, it’s a huge improvement. Agree with the removal of the other abilities, though I think I would like thrust gone too. I’d be open to playing a beta with it in, but thrust just throws off the grenade-banking formula (and arguably other things) that I love about the old classic style.
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> What about clamber? I think that’s one of the abilities that people would miss (whether they realize it or not) the most since it’s become almost second nature in H5. It’s inclusion isn’t really a deal-breaker for me either.

I feel clamber ruins map design as much as sprint does. It forces the developers to raise the height level of certain jumps and/or lower the jump height, thus making skill jumps that don’t utilize clamber effectively useless. If you played Halo 5 and chose not to clamber, you find moving around the map and accessing certain weapons to be difficult. One example that comes to mind are the DMR spawn cubby holes on Truth. You can’t access a DMR without needing to clamber, whereas in any other Halo game, you could just jump or crouch-jump to get to that’s level.

Never thought I’d see the day, coming back to take a peek at the forums that sprint finally has an official forum post.

How bizarre.

And of course taking a quick look around, the pro sprinters are in full force, not really a surprise since I doubt many of the anti ones even pay attention here anymore.

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> > Never thought I’d see the day, coming back to take a peek at the forums that sprint finally has an official forum post.
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> > How bizarre.
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> > And of course taking a quick look around, the pro sprinters are in full force, not really a surprise since I doubt many of the anti ones even pay attention here anymore.
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> Most of us don’t even care anymore, since we’re getting too old or too busy for inconsequential online posts. The ones that do, on other websites mostly, are completely silenced by the new community.

Anywhere else but here, no I’d have to disagree, the new community is on the lower end of the spectrum instead. Talking here though brings too much hostility with debates that always end up into insults on the pro sprinter’s end.

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> If Halo 6 doesn’t have sprint, it’s a huge improvement. Agree with the removal of the other abilities, though I think I would like thrust gone too. I’d be open to playing a beta with it in, but thrust just throws off the grenade-banking formula (and arguably other things) that I love about the old classic style.
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> What about clamber? I think that’s one of the abilities that people would miss (whether they realize it or not) the most since it’s become almost second nature in H5. It’s inclusion isn’t really a deal-breaker for me either.

I can see both sides of the thrusters argument, but personally I like halo better with thrusters than without, and this is coming from someone who’s favorite Halo game is Halo 2. As for clamber, I’m not sure about that one. I’m leaning more towards not having it so that trick jumping can be a thing again, because that, unlike sprint, is gameplay depth that creates interesting situations. At the same time however, I think it is a nice mechanic to have, and I pretty much agree with you that if it’s in Halo 6 or not I won’t really care either way.

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> Pretty much hit the nail on the head with those rebuttals, so good job! As I said in my previous post to you, I don’t actually believe these things, these are just common arguments I see for pro-sprint, so I hope this post wasn’t aimed at trying to prove me wrong, but I assume you weren’t.

Nope, I just put those out there for people to see if they try to use one of those arguments, and to hopefully discourage them from doing so.

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Sprint, I like. Spartan charge however, feels like it’s still way too powerful.

This forum topic has a LOT of posts!

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> This forum topic has a LOT of posts!

That’s because the community feels strongly about it. There wouldn’t need to be a near 700 page long forum thread with people arguing whether or not there should be sprint if sprint wasn’t in the game.

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> If I am honest I am not entirely sure how there is still any debate at all. I swear sprint has been objectively ripped apart 1000 times with the only counter being “I like the immersion”. If you like the immersion that is your opinion of course but sprint has been proven to hurt all aspects of Halos multiplayer design. It’s been explained so many times and in so much depth. Why is there still an argument?

Because people like to “feel fast” without considering how it might affect gameplay. It’s a completely shallow viewpoint, but unfortunately most players don’t know or give a -Yoink- about how sprint affects the game. God forbid they have to move at a moderate pace and make tactical decisions instead of bouncing off the walls at 100 MPH while 360 no-scoping noobs because “it’s not 2007 anymore”.

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> > Because people like to “feel fast” without considering how it might affect gameplay. It’s a completely shallow viewpoint, but unfortunately most players don’t know or give a -Yoink- about how sprint affects the game. God forbid they have to move at a moderate pace and make tactical decisions instead of bouncing off the walls at 100 MPH while 360 no-scoping noobs because “it’s not 2007 anymore”.
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> Well put! It just amazes me how many people buy into the illusion that sprint makes things faster when it has so clearly been proven to do otherwise and even if in some cases it does speed things up, there are way to many downsides regarding the impact on map design and weapon balance. I hate to force opinions on anyone but I swear when you critically lay out all the pros and cons, sprint is just so objectively bad for the game to the point where it really isn’t a matter of opinion. Well it’s opinion whether or not you like sprint but its negative impact on the game is undeniable.

Exactly. I don’t hate sprint in all games, but I really do in Halo. When I want a “change of pace” or just an easier and more laid back game in general, I play Titanfall 2 on my PC. Sprint in halo just screws the game up.

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> > > Because people like to “feel fast” without considering how it might affect gameplay. It’s a completely shallow viewpoint, but unfortunately most players don’t know or give a -Yoink- about how sprint affects the game. God forbid they have to move at a moderate pace and make tactical decisions instead of bouncing off the walls at 100 MPH while 360 no-scoping noobs because “it’s not 2007 anymore”.
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> > Well put! It just amazes me how many people buy into the illusion that sprint makes things faster when it has so clearly been proven to do otherwise and even if in some cases it does speed things up, there are way to many downsides regarding the impact on map design and weapon balance. I hate to force opinions on anyone but I swear when you critically lay out all the pros and cons, sprint is just so objectively bad for the game to the point where it really isn’t a matter of opinion. Well it’s opinion whether or not you like sprint but its negative impact on the game is undeniable.
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> Exactly. I don’t hate sprint in all games, but I really do in Halo. When I want a “change of pace” or just an easier and more laid back game in general, I play Titanfall 2 on my PC. Sprint in halo just screws the game up.

Oh what’s that you need to sprint to cross the map but can’t immediately defend yourself so if you get shot first you basically lost the fight? Yep that’s not frustrating at all.

I hate unlimited sprinting in Halo 5.

  • Unlimited Sprinting means that people use it constantly to get from A to B instead of normal running. Because people move faster they show up on your radar for less time; and with the radar being 18 Meters instead of 25 meters, this makes the radar considerably less useful in comparison to previous titles. Essentially, if you haven’t visually spotted someone, then by the time the radar warns you of their presence, they’ve probably already Spartan Charged into you from behind.
  • Halo games have never been particularly fast-paced, but unlimited sprinting increases the pacing of the game to be much faster than previous Halo games. Whilst this isn’t true for everyone, personally when I buy into a game franchise I expect each new title to be very similar to the last; I don’t get this feeling with Halo 5 because the speed and mechanics of the multiplayer gameplay have changed so drastically. It feels like a new game; but with Halo skins. If Halo 6 isn’t going to be closer to Halo 3 and 4 in terms of online gameplay then sadly I’ll be leaving the franchise.
  • Unlimited sprinting makes Spartan Charging an easy way to rush the target risk-free. Spartan Charge is one of the most broken aspects of the game in that when you use it it knocks the other player away from you meaning they can’t Melee back in defence. If Sprinting was limited then people would use Spartan Charge more sparingly and it would lessen the severity of this imbalance.
  • Unlimited sprinting allowed me to speed-run the campaign much easier than I should have been able to. I understand that it’s my loss if I choose to skip the campaign, but I really shouldn’t be able to.
  • Also, I don’t know if this is Sprint-related or not, but it feels like it is: The map designs in Halo 5 have very little cover, which is typical of a fast-paced game. In previous Halo games there’s always been lots of places to hide and take the match slowly. It feels like all the maps in Halo 5 are purposely lacking cover to encourage players to keep moving at all times – which isn’t what Halo games have ever really been about. If you look at older Halo 3 maps like Guardian and The Pit they were pretty open environments but there was a lot of areas to hide. They were the among the best Halo maps ever - but they wouldn’t work in Halo 5 because of sprinting.
  • Finally, my “if it isn’t broken, don’t fix it” argument. Limited Sprinting was never a problem in previous games outside of “game logic”. Sure, you could make the lore-based argument that Spartans are super soldiers and should be able to sprint for miles, but I make the argument that game balancing takes precedence over lore. Sprinting being a limited option encouraged people to use it sparingly/appropriately rather than using it constantly; which is the norm in Halo 5.

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> - Halo games have never been particularly fast-paced, but unlimited sprinting increases the pacing of the game to be much faster than previous Halo games. Whilst this isn’t true for everyone, personally when I buy into a game franchise I expect each new title to be very similar to the last; I don’t get this feeling with Halo 5 because the speed and mechanics of the multiplayer gameplay have changed so drastically. It feels like a new game; but with Halo skins. If Halo 6 isn’t going to be closer to Halo 3 and 4 in terms of online gameplay then sadly I’ll be leaving the franchise.

I really like this point. Sure some stuff can, and should change with every installation in a series, but not all that much. I play halo because I like the halo gameplay style. There’s a boatload of other FPS games out there, and if I want something drastically different I can play one of those. Sticking to a formula isn’t the same thing as releasing the same game every time, it’s sticking with what works, and building off of it, not trashing it and restarting.

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> > > > > I like sprinting
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> > > > Any particular reason why?
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> > > Cause I can run away if I’m in trouble
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> > You like a game mechanic that fosters retreat? If you require constant retreats in order to perform well as a player, that just means you’re making tactical mistakes. In any other Halo game, making a tactical mistake like engaging multiple enemies without your team would lead to death and force you to improve your skill. Now, you can make as many mistakes as you want and just sprint away when things get heated.
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> That’s when the attackers sprint after him. :wink:

There are two things here which you are assuming are part of the problem for people who don’t like sprint, which is actually not part of the problem at all.

  1. The assumption that non-sprint fans think players running away is bad. This is a false assumption. Players running away from encounters they’re losing is completely understandable and completely viable.

  2. The assumption that non-sprint fans somehow don’t realize that they can chase the player that is running away. This is false; non-sprint fans haven’t suddenly forgotten that they have the ability to move in Halo.

The real problem is that the game grants an unfair and unearned advantage to players who decide to run away from encounters. This advantage comes in the form of lowered weapons.

The objective of a player who runs away is to get to safety and allow their shields to recharge.

The objective of a chasing player is to keep up with the escapee and to continue to shoot them so that the escapee’s shields don’t recharge.

In Halos 1, 2 and 3, the chaser could simply run at the same speed as the escapee and continue shooting at the same time. However, this ability is not granted in Halo 4/5 as the chaser has to sacrifice his/her ability to shoot in order to simply keep up with the escapee. This nullifies the chase, to begin with, because the point of chasing a player who you were in the middle of killing is to kill them before their shields recharge, thus finishing the encounter.

I joined this forum just to say that sprint should be removed from future Halo games. I wish there was a poll or something.

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> I joined this forum just to say that sprint should be removed from future Halo games. I wish there was a poll or something.

There has been hundreds of polls regarding sprint on this forum, then there have been several on other sites as well. Additionally there was one with the survey program that i343 sometimes send out to participants.