The sprint discussion thread

Games Halo 5: Guardians
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> > > The spartan abilities definitely add more layers of options, but that doesn’t automatically equate to a higher skill gap. For example, thrusting in a fight is no different than having a responsive strafe.
> >
> > If an enemy has a bead on you, the thrust can effectively break their aim off of you. Strafing in one direction then quickly thrusting or jumping and thrusting at the same time in another direction is pretty effective from what I’ve seen. One tactic I saw the other day was to use a jump-thrust backwards to get behind an enemy that was chasing you to score a beatdown or assassination on them. It was kind of risky, but it worked.
>
> An effective strafe in CE could accomplish the same, and ninja-ing existed since H2. Thrust is nothing more than an exaggerated strafe. Both serve to shake your opponent’s aim. Most of these abilities don’t really enrich Halo’s gameplay, they’re just… there.

So even though thrust allows a player to enhance their strafing and ninja techniques, it doesn’t enrich the gameplay?

In my previous posts I highlighted how Sprint and other Spartan Abilities add options and variety to the core gameplay, and how those options enhance overall play. But according to you they don’t and all you can come up with is “Idunno, man, they’re just like, there, dude.”? Really?

It’s become very clear that this thread has devolved into a contest in which you guys compete on how many different ways you can say “I just want 343 to make Halo 3 over and over and over again”. Or was it that from the very first post?

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> > > > > > > > > > > The question wasn’t directed at me, but I feel the need to answer anyways:
> > > > > > > > > > > I would have left solely because of sprint, had 343 not included ADS and removed split-screen. As a result, I ended up leaving because of all three of them. (And yes, I do have H5G on my gamercard, but only because it was gifted to me… and as a used copy, no less.) Even if 343 were to fix those two things in the next game, if it still has sprint (in campaign, that is) I’m not getting it. I can also attest for at least two friends of mine who feel exactly the same way. I cannot speak for the majority, but there are de facto people to whom it really is that much of a deal-breaker…
> > > > > > > > > > > (That being said, ADS and lack of splitscreen are equally deal-breakers, so if H6 removes sprint but keeps ADS and still has no splitscreen, I’m not getting it either.)
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > FWIW Sprint is one of the biggest factors contributing to me quitting Halo as well, and the same can be said for many of my friends, we’ve had lengthy discussions about it and the general consensus is always that 343’s Halo games just do not feel like Halo, and when they elaborate on that Sprint is always the first thing that comes up, followed by the many, many other poor design decisions that 343 has made with this franchise.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > If Sprint is in H6, I will straight up not buy it, in fact there are a lot of factors that can lead to me not buying it but Sprint is the most crucial
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I guess some people really do see sprint just as the worst, then. I just find it strange because the whole time sprint has been part of Halo, there has always been something I would’ve personally rather have seen removed if I got to choose. As far as I’m concerned, and the current state of Halo considered, it would be a pretty good day if sprint was the worst thing I could complain about.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > It completely changed the way the game is played and how encounters play out, yes, it is by far the worst thing that has been implemented into Halo, there are plenty of other terrible things that both bungie and 343 have shoved into Halo, but nothing has fundamentally altered the game for the worse like sprint has
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You’re right. It has in fact completely changed the way encounters play out. It’s better. I see a whole lot less of the same strafey duels where the one who can wiggle the analog stick left and right the fastest while maintaining their aim wins. Halo 5 has more options for when you’re in encounters now, but since that intimidates people who were used to using the same tactics over and over again across their hundreds of hours of H3, you claim it ruins the game.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Would you please name some options that H5 has that a game like CE doesn’t have for when you are in encounters, because I can’t.
> > >
> > > You can’t refute the increased amount of options that these Spartan Abilities give players by saying “It’s just an easier version of X!” and ignoring what makes those Abilities different than what they’re an easier version of.
> >
> > You could add double the amount of Spartan Abilities for even more options, but the question isn’t about the numbers of options you have, but how many of those options are meaningful. How much depth does the new options add when they add more complexity to the game.
>
> I’d argue that the current slate of Spartan Abilities is plenty enough. We have a hover that can be used inventively but makes you a bigger target, and AoE knockback ground pound that can kill instantly on a direct hit but is difficult to land, a charge that has knockback but is difficult to land as well and can only be used while sprinting, a cooldown-based thrust for rapid evasion and extending jumps in combination with other abilities, a slide that quickly lowers your profile while in motion and can be used to rapidly get into cover, a clamber that let’s you climb tall ledges and let’s you cross wider gaps (but takes precious fractions of a second to use in a firefight), and a sprint that let’s you move at a faster speed but disables regen and you can’t start sprinting when you’re getting shot. All of these abilities have trade-offs that offset their benefits so as to keep them effective but balanced, and in my opinion add enough variety to the game without making it overly complex.
>
> But of course this is probably where you reply with how you think all of H5’s Spartan Abilities are actually redundant and how the pinnacle of Halo was BR-only Slayer with no radar on The Pit.

What purpose does that last baseless assumption serve? Specifically seeing as what I said went over your head.

Complexity vs Depth.

I don’t need a rundown on every ability.

Why do we need sprint? An infinite speed boost at the cost of regeneration. What is favourable with it over a general global speed boost?
Why do we need clamber? An ability which let’s you climb ledges. What is favourable with that over specially placed grav lifts or specially designed lower ledges for normal jumps?

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> > > > > > > The question wasn’t directed at me, but I feel the need to answer anyways:
> > > > > > > I would have left solely because of sprint, had 343 not included ADS and removed split-screen. As a result, I ended up leaving because of all three of them. (And yes, I do have H5G on my gamercard, but only because it was gifted to me… and as a used copy, no less.) Even if 343 were to fix those two things in the next game, if it still has sprint (in campaign, that is) I’m not getting it. I can also attest for at least two friends of mine who feel exactly the same way. I cannot speak for the majority, but there are de facto people to whom it really is that much of a deal-breaker…
> > > > > > > (That being said, ADS and lack of splitscreen are equally deal-breakers, so if H6 removes sprint but keeps ADS and still has no splitscreen, I’m not getting it either.)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > FWIW Sprint is one of the biggest factors contributing to me quitting Halo as well, and the same can be said for many of my friends, we’ve had lengthy discussions about it and the general consensus is always that 343’s Halo games just do not feel like Halo, and when they elaborate on that Sprint is always the first thing that comes up, followed by the many, many other poor design decisions that 343 has made with this franchise.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If Sprint is in H6, I will straight up not buy it, in fact there are a lot of factors that can lead to me not buying it but Sprint is the most crucial
> > > > >
> > > > > I guess some people really do see sprint just as the worst, then. I just find it strange because the whole time sprint has been part of Halo, there has always been something I would’ve personally rather have seen removed if I got to choose. As far as I’m concerned, and the current state of Halo considered, it would be a pretty good day if sprint was the worst thing I could complain about.
> > > >
> > > > It completely changed the way the game is played and how encounters play out, yes, it is by far the worst thing that has been implemented into Halo, there are plenty of other terrible things that both bungie and 343 have shoved into Halo, but nothing has fundamentally altered the game for the worse like sprint has
> > >
> > > You’re right. It has in fact completely changed the way encounters play out. It’s better. I see a whole lot less of the same strafey duels where the one who can wiggle the analog stick left and right the fastest while maintaining their aim wins. Halo 5 has more options for when you’re in encounters now, but since that intimidates people who were used to using the same tactics over and over again across their hundreds of hours of H3, you claim it ruins the game.
> >
> > Would you please name some options that H5 has that a game like CE doesn’t have for when you are in encounters, because I can’t.
>
> Im not sure if you’re joking or not. The various new abilities in 5 give you more options than you ever had in CE. Sliding behind a wall when you see an enemy’s sniper rifle bullet trail fly past you, dashing to get the opponent’s bead off of you, hovering to sneak a few shots over a tall piece of cover, clambering to get a height advantage, ground-pounding an unaware enemy, Spartan Charging to disorient an opponent and finishing them off with your weapon of choice (or finishing them off instantly from behind)… Using these abilities in combination with one another provides many more options for how you can make plays in an encounter. They exist and provide much-needed variety whether you like them or not.

I wasn’t joking, so thanks for a legit post. There are two problems I see here. The first one is that none of these abilities really take a whole lot of skill. They are all easy to do which is why you see everyone doing them. The other problem is that even though they are a big part of H5, they are very hollow and meaningless.

Let me ask you this: when you are running for cover(in H5) and see that an enemy sniper is targeting you, do you ever just not slide into cover. Because in classic halo we used to do things like gandhi hopping or looking down to avoid damage. Surely you’ve done these things too. The only meaningful difference between sliding and gandhi hopping is the way it looks. This is true for all of the spartan abilities.

There is no meaningful difference between a good strafe and a well timed thrust, except that strafing takes skill, but a thrust is just a push of a button.

There is no meaningful difference between clambering and a good grenade jump except a good nade jump is a lot harder than clamber is.

There is no difference between a ground pound and jumping down and getting a momentum based double melee in CE, except that double melees were really hard to get in CE. Oh, and a spartan charge is just a melee. You can melee someone and then melee them with your weapon of choice(or finish them off instantly from behind).

So what we got out of this is that all the tricks that are in H5 are in CE, they are just easier. But when they’re easy it doesn’t matter of your good at doing them. Which makes H5 a shallow game with very little innovation.

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> So even though thrust allows a player to enhance their strafing and ninja techniques, it doesn’t enrich the gameplay?

Not in any significant way at least. The ability to thrust adds a single new thing to learn to strafing: when to push the button. Timing the thrust is admittedly not completely trivial, but it also isn’t some new tactical dimension that elevates strafing to a whole new level. It’s a single choice during an encounter where the player might have to make a dozen other choices. Its execution is trivial, and it’s unlikely to be a game changer. What it adds is so minor that we can question whether that justifies the ability. In such a case, we have to turn to the question: what does it take away? And this is where it turns out to be a problem that the ability so easily gets the player out of a bad situation.

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> In my previous posts I highlighted how Sprint and other Spartan Abilities add options and variety to the core gameplay, and how those options enhance overall play. But according to you they don’t and all you can come up with is “Idunno, man, they’re just like, there, dude.”? Really?

And some people questioned whether these options and this variety ultimately makes gameplay deeper in any significant way. You’re not the first person I have heard to make this argument about “options and variety”. The problem with the argument is that it’s always too near sighted. It relies on the assumption that more options is automatically a better thing, but that’s rarely the case. The challenge in any competitive game comes from trying to predict your opponent, and try to reduce the number of viable choices they have. When you give each player a huge array of choices, not only does predicting them become an impossible task, but reducing the number of choices they have to a manageable size also becomes impossible.

For example, allowing every player to float like the Forge monitor certainly gives everyone much more options in how they can move. However, in this situation “height advantage” is a meaningless concept when everyone can just fly to the top in a second. Trying to predict where the opponent will come from is pointless when there are just so many routes they could take. Gameplay devolves into chaos with no sensible flow, and suddenly the only thing that matters is who can kill best.

Indeed, the reason for this near sightedness often seems to be that the person making the argument either thinks that the only skill that matters in Halo is how well you aim and strafe, or is at least only thinking of those two skills when making the argument. However, in reality, Halo has many skills, which have to do with navigating the map, and predicting where opponents will be. The existence of these skills relies on limitations. When you are at the bottom of the map, you will have to find a good route to the top. If you can take any path you want, that’s not much of a challenge, but when there are only few drastically different ones, there are suddenly a lot more things you’ll have to reason about. When you can’t just fly to the top, there is actually a meaningful decision to be made to surrender top control in order to retrieve a power weapon from the bottom.

The skill in any game comes from being able to reason about and build tactics from the limited set of rules of the game. Everyone understands that a game with no rules has nothing to it. So, it is not at all obvious that giving the player a mechanic makes the game deeper just because it gives the player more options. You will also have to ponder whether the mechanic may make some aspects of the game easier for the player. In the case of Thruster Pack, you will have to consider how the fact that a player can easily thrust behind a corner in a bad situation impacts gameplay, or that thrusting allows the player to extend their already long jumps.

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> It’s become very clear that this thread has devolved into a contest in which you guys compete on how many different ways you can say “I just want 343 to make Halo 3 over and over and over again”. Or was it that from the very first post?

We’re not responding to your posts with “you just want to turn Halo into Titanfall”. (Because that’s what you must want when you defend mechanics that happen to also exist in that game, right? /s) We’d very much appreciate if you returned the favor.

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> > > > The spartan abilities definitely add more layers of options, but that doesn’t automatically equate to a higher skill gap. For example, thrusting in a fight is no different than having a responsive strafe.
>
> It’s become very clear that this thread has devolved into a contest in which you guys compete on how many different ways you can say “I just want 343 to make Halo 3 over and over and over again”. Or was it that from the very first post?

If you want to continue contributing to this thread with such asinine assumptions like these, then that’s your prerogative. But it’s hilarious how that’s the conclusion you reach when there were clearly game-breaking flaws in Halo 3’s competitive game play that people actually presented distaste for.

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Thrust would be improved if it was toned down and had a longer cooldown time, it would present a player with a greater and more impactful choice of if to save it for movement, gunfight, or an escape. I don’t think its impact has been as detrimental as some would say if I didnt have thrust I would simply engage a gunfight closer to cover.

After watching the pros this weekend I barely saw GP or SC used at all or if i did see it it wasn’t used as it was intended ,which puts big question marks on their worth. I still maintain a higher BMS, no sprint, toned down thrust, slide, hover and clamber SA’s are the way forward. Its shown this weekend at the top level that the best way to get kills is and always will be grenade-shoot-melee, the only worthwile abilities are the movement ones that don’t restrict the ability to retain those methods of combat.

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> I like how they have added Sprint since halo 4

Reach had sprint but it was an armor ability. I really do enjoy sprint in the halo games. It feels natural now to not do a doom style of a faster run speed but the gun is always up. It gives people control over their movement and offers a lot of game play options. The way halo 5 handle sprint was very well done. I don’t think we need a bunch of other abilities with it though

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> > I like how they have added Sprint since halo 4
>
> Reach had sprint but it was an armor ability. I really do enjoy sprint in the halo games. It feels natural now to not do a doom style of a faster run speed but the gun is always up. It gives people control over their movement and offers a lot of game play options. The way halo 5 handle sprint was very well done. I don’t think we need a bunch of other abilities with it though

“Natural”? As in realistic?

What control over one’s movement does a sprint mechanic provide that’s absent otherwise? You can’t go in any direction you couldn’t have gone without it. Heck, while sprinting you lose omni-directional control over your movement.

What are some of the gameplay options sprint provides that cannot be achieved with an equal BMS?

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Locks player in forward movement unable to shoot yet provides options :expressionless:

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> > > > The spartan abilities definitely add more layers of options, but that doesn’t automatically equate to a higher skill gap. For example, thrusting in a fight is no different than having a responsive strafe.
> > >
> > > It’s become very clear that this thread has devolved into a contest in which you guys compete on how many different ways you can say “I just want 343 to make Halo 3 over and over and over again”. Or was it that from the very first post?

People want a classic style game, not carbon copies of what’s already been done and not drastically changing the core formula (reach to present). There’s a difference between wanting continuation of what’s already in(was at this point) place and “I want H3”

for the record there are people who’d rather halo go further back than H3s style (note I said style and not an exact copy) such as CE where weapon redundancy wasn’t an issue and map pickups were even more of a focus as well as 2v2 fights that didn’t rely on team work as much as anything H2 and after did.

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> > > I like how they have added Sprint since halo 4
> >
> > Reach had sprint but it was an armor ability. I really do enjoy sprint in the halo games. It feels natural now to not do a doom style of a faster run speed but the gun is always up. It gives people control over their movement and offers a lot of game play options. The way halo 5 handle sprint was very well done. I don’t think we need a bunch of other abilities with it though
>
> “Natural”? As in realistic?
>
> What control over one’s movement does a sprint mechanic provide that’s absent otherwise? You can’t go in any direction you couldn’t have gone without it. Heck, while sprinting you lose Omni-directional control over your movement.
>
> What are some of the gameplay options sprint provides that cannot be achieved with an equal BMS?

Immersion! /s

you raise a point, people say sprint adds more movement options, yet as you said you can’t move Omni-directional with it. That’s taking one option away. It also takes away the option to fire a weapon in the animation, and in clambor case it does the same thing, when you clambor, you have to face the direction you want to clambor where as the original jumping mechanics you could jump in any direction regardless of which way you faced.

if you ask me, sprint/clambor remove options but in the process make what they’re intended for easier/quicker. Clambor makes sure you can’t miss a jump but limits you in other ways, sprint has a 5% speed bonus over BMS but at the cost of weapon readiness and you’ll constantly have to drop the animation in a gun fight (where as higher BMS would let you fight without having to slow down). Hopefully I’m wording all of that correctly and I’m getting my point across. If you ask me, a higher BMS is more “natural”.

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> > > I like how they have added Sprint since halo 4
> >
> > Reach had sprint but it was an armor ability. I really do enjoy sprint in the halo games. It feels natural now to not do a doom style of a faster run speed but the gun is always up. It gives people control over their movement and offers a lot of game play options. The way halo 5 handle sprint was very well done. I don’t think we need a bunch of other abilities with it though
>
> “Natural”? As in realistic?
>
> What control over one’s movement does a sprint mechanic provide that’s absent otherwise? You can’t go in any direction you couldn’t have gone without it. Heck, while sprinting you lose omni-directional control over your movement.
>
> What are some of the gameplay options sprint provides that cannot be achieved with an equal BMS?

What I mean by natural is that I have adapt to it from halo reach,4,and 5 now, for it to be taken out would make the gameplay crawl for me at less. I never ones said it was realistic. You thought that is what I meant. Since you went to that point, It is quite balance in halo 5 compared to 4. Plus in the previous halo games, we played as Spartan 2s for the most part. which would be able to have this ability to move at a fast pace and shoot. Lore wise, it does make sense why we would not be walking, fast death machines able to turn on a dime at top speed and fire at the same time.

On gameplay wise that provides options that a equal BMS can’t provide. It provides choice to the player that have both positive and negative. Player 1 chooses to sprint to the location to get there faster. Wither that be a power weapon, helping out another teammate before it is to late, or another reason, they are making that decision that the ability to sprint is more important then the ability to reaction. Player 1 needs to accelerate and is unable to instantly react to a situation that might occur during his increase speed by Player 2. Player 1 now has a choice. Continue to move towards destination, turn direction and attack player 2 hoping player 2 accuracy is worse than player 1, or change course and seek cover. No mater what option, player 1 can not regenerate shields until he no longer is taking hits, or is sprinting.
Player 2 now has an option as well. They know player 1 is heading to that destination, They could throw a grenade in the projected spot of player 1 sprinting to weaken him further, but player 1 can stop moving, making the damage from the grenade minimum because it would be to far away.

Though this is simplistic, it is something that you would not have the decision to do if sprint was removed. player 1 would be able to react right away and move in the backwards direction. player 2 just has to follow since both of them will be able to follow at the same speed, player 1 is most certain to die without much in the way of it since player 2 got the jump on him. Player 2 can throw the grenade with a bunch around where player 1 is and it will most certainly hit him.

player 1 and two now have a constant choice with something that they both have, but can’t attack each other if active. It is also not a mechanic that is by itself since their is abilities you can use with it(but that is not what we are talking about). A game needs to have choices for a player to do in order for it to be a fun and enjoyable game. Sprint is not to far of a stretch and is not that really huge and complex mechanic, but the complexity comes to play on when to use it.

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> > > > I like how they have added Sprint since halo 4
> > >
> > > Reach had sprint but it was an armor ability. I really do enjoy sprint in the halo games. It feels natural now to not do a doom style of a faster run speed but the gun is always up. It gives people control over their movement and offers a lot of game play options. The way halo 5 handle sprint was very well done. I don’t think we need a bunch of other abilities with it though
> >
> > “Natural”? As in realistic?
> >
> > What control over one’s movement does a sprint mechanic provide that’s absent otherwise? You can’t go in any direction you couldn’t have gone without it. Heck, while sprinting you lose omni-directional control over your movement.
> >
> > What are some of the gameplay options sprint provides that cannot be achieved with an equal BMS?
>
> On gameplay wise that provides options that a equal BMS can’t provide. It provides choice to the player that have both positive and negative. Player 1 chooses to sprint to the location to get there faster. Wither that be a power weapon, helping out another teammate before it is to late, or another reason, they are making that decision that the ability to sprint is more important then the ability to reaction. Player 1 needs to accelerate and is unable to instantly react to a situation that might occur during his increase speed by Player 2. Player 1 now has a choice. Continue to move towards destination, turn direction and attack player 2 hoping player 2 accuracy is worse than player 1, or change course and seek cover. No mater what option, player 1 can not regenerate shields until he no longer is taking hits, or is sprinting.
> Player 2 now has an option as well. They know player 1 is heading to that destination, They could throw a grenade in the projected spot of player 1 sprinting to weaken him further, but player 1 can stop moving, making the damage from the grenade minimum because it would be to far away.

But reaction times and tactics like ambushing other players aren’t created by sprint, they are created by the players and they existed in classic Halos.

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> Sprint is not to far of a stretch and is not that really huge and complex mechanic, but the complexity comes to play on when to use it.

When in the world do you decide “I’m not going to sprint right now”? You’re either in combat or you’re not. Jesus.

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> > > > I like how they have added Sprint since halo 4
> > >
> > > Reach had sprint but it was an armor ability. I really do enjoy sprint in the halo games. It feels natural now to not do a doom style of a faster run speed but the gun is always up. It gives people control over their movement and offers a lot of game play options. The way halo 5 handle sprint was very well done. I don’t think we need a bunch of other abilities with it though
> >
> > “Natural”? As in realistic?
> >
> > What control over one’s movement does a sprint mechanic provide that’s absent otherwise? You can’t go in any direction you couldn’t have gone without it. Heck, while sprinting you lose omni-directional control over your movement.
> >
> > What are some of the gameplay options sprint provides that cannot be achieved with an equal BMS?
>
> What I mean by natural is that I have adapt to it from halo reach,4,and 5 now, for it to be taken out would make the gameplay crawl for me at less. I never ones said it was realistic. You thought that is what I meant. Since you went to that point, It is quite balance in halo 5 compared to 4. Plus in the previous halo games, we played as Spartan 2s for the most part. which would be able to have this ability to move at a fast pace and shoot. Lore wise, it does make sense why we would not be walking, fast death machines able to turn on a dime at top speed and fire at the same time.
>
> On gameplay wise that provides options that a equal BMS can’t provide. It provides choice to the player that have both positive and negative. Player 1 chooses to sprint to the location to get there faster. Wither that be a power weapon, helping out another teammate before it is to late, or another reason, they are making that decision that the ability to sprint is more important then the ability to reaction. Player 1 needs to accelerate and is unable to instantly react to a situation that might occur during his increase speed by Player 2. Player 1 now has a choice. Continue to move towards destination, turn direction and attack player 2 hoping player 2 accuracy is worse than player 1, or change course and seek cover. No mater what option, player 1 can not regenerate shields until he no longer is taking hits, or is sprinting.
> Player 2 now has an option as well. They know player 1 is heading to that destination, They could throw a grenade in the projected spot of player 1 sprinting to weaken him further, but player 1 can stop moving, making the damage from the grenade minimum because it would be to far away.
>
> Though this is simplistic, it is something that you would not have the decision to do if sprint was removed. player 1 would be able to react right away and move in the backwards direction. player 2 just has to follow since both of them will be able to follow at the same speed, player 1 is most certain to die without much in the way of it since player 2 got the jump on him. Player 2 can throw the grenade with a bunch around where player 1 is and it will most certainly hit him.
>
> player 1 and two now have a constant choice with something that they both have, but can’t attack each other if active. It is also not a mechanic that is by itself since their is abilities you can use with it(but that is not what we are talking about). A game needs to have choices for a player to do in order for it to be a fun and enjoyable game. Sprint is not to far of a stretch and is not that really huge and complex mechanic, but the complexity comes to play on when to use it.

Complexity and depth aren’t the same thing, abilities that only complicate the game without adding any for more of depth or a skill gap have no place in the game. Let alone chosing an ability that you can’t effectively use while in combat, over a steady BMS that allows combat at all times.

13499

> 2533274807537946;13467:
> Halo 5 refocused the game on map pickups and map control after Halo Reach and 4 focused on Loadouts and jet packs. H5 is more Arena than Halo’s been in years.

Either you’re trolling or you have no idea what constitutes as an Arena Shooter.
Quake, Unreal Tournament and co. are known for constant combat capabilities. These games don’t even have reload, let alone a mechanic like sprint that forces your gun down for extended periods of time. With infinite sprint, H5G is the furthest away from Arena Shooters the franchise has ever been…

13500

> 2533274801176260;13499:
> > 2533274807537946;13467:
> > Halo 5 refocused the game on map pickups and map control after Halo Reach and 4 focused on Loadouts and jet packs. H5 is more Arena than Halo’s been in years.
>
> Either you’re trolling or you have no idea what constitutes as an Arena Shooter.
> Quake, Unreal Tournament and co. are known for constant combat capabilities. These games don’t even have reload, let alone a mechanic like sprint that forces your gun down for extended periods of time. With infinite sprint, H5G is the furthest away from Arena Shooters the franchise has ever been…

Is there a universal definition for an Arena shooter? If not, we really should make one, not only for the sake of the conversation or my personal health, but also just for the people!

13501

> 2533274801176260;13499:
> > 2533274807537946;13467:
> > Halo 5 refocused the game on map pickups and map control after Halo Reach and 4 focused on Loadouts and jet packs. H5 is more Arena than Halo’s been in years.
>
> Either you’re trolling or you have no idea what constitutes as an Arena Shooter.
> Quake, Unreal Tournament and co. are known for constant combat capabilities. These games don’t even have reload, let alone a mechanic like sprint that forces your gun down for extended periods of time. With infinite sprint, H5G is the furthest away from Arena Shooters the franchise has ever been…

I’d give H4 being the furthest from an arena shooter than h5. Loadouts made map pickups pointless and you could spawn in weapons by ordnances, it too even had sprint (no idea if it was infinite or not but does it being infinite really matter if it still drops combat capabilities)? H4s jumping is all I’d give it over h5 since you could still jump left, right, backwards but h5 lessened the base jump so much that you can’t make jumps that you could in past games without the use of clambor. I guess I need more to agree with your stance on h5 being further.

as for halo being an arena shooter, I’d say you’re right. (and believe we actually argued this topic a year or two ago but I’ve changed stance since, I was very stubborn to anyone arguing vs halo being an arena game). Halo has some elements but not enough to really strictly classify it as such. It’s a hybrid arena/tactical/fps with some elements at best, not enough to really give it a specific title besides a first person shooter. Even then, it’s minor arena elements are/were part of why I enjoy/enjoyed the game over other fps out there, plus console wise you don’t see many “good” arena games out there (I gave the new doom a try but no one really plays it’s multiplayer).

13502

Run alone for time, halo 4, makes it more human to spartan

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> 2533274943854776;13500:
> > 2533274801176260;13499:
> > > 2533274807537946;13467:
> > > Halo 5 refocused the game on map pickups and map control after Halo Reach and 4 focused on Loadouts and jet packs. H5 is more Arena than Halo’s been in years.
> >
> > Either you’re trolling or you have no idea what constitutes as an Arena Shooter.
> > Quake, Unreal Tournament and co. are known for constant combat capabilities. These games don’t even have reload, let alone a mechanic like sprint that forces your gun down for extended periods of time. With infinite sprint, H5G is the furthest away from Arena Shooters the franchise has ever been…
>
> Is there a universal definition for an Arena shooter? If not, we really should make one, not only for the sake of the conversation or my personal health, but also just for the people!

As far as ambitious tasks go, trying to get people of various generations to agree on a vague term that describes a subgenre of games is pretty high up there. To amuse yourself, all you need to do is to google “arena shooter” and expose yourself to a variety of discussion ranging from “UT was not an arena shooter” to “Gears of War; arena shooter or tactical shooter?”

You’re going about it the wrong way. You can’t dictate a universal definition to a genre. That’s not what genres are for. Genres are for people to mentally categorize their interests so that they can more easily discuss with other people who have similar interests, but they’re not meant to be clear cut. It ultimately doesn’t matter which genre a game belongs to, because it’s not the genre that defines the game. Rather, how the game works is what allows you to mentally place it to a certain genre, but someone else will place it differently.

It’s not like it matters. For Halo to be an arena shooter is not the primary thing I want. What I want is for Halo to have a a certain type of gameplay that I just happen to mentally categorize as an arena shooter. So, when someone comes an says Halo 5 is more of an arena shooter than Halo CE, I don’t really get upset. Well, that guy just disagrees with me about what an arena shooter is, but that’s no big deal. He’s not saying Halo 5 resembles the game I want more than Halo CE does. If that was what he said, I’d be very upset. But that’s not what he said, he just has an interpretation of the arena shooter that’s very strange to me,

Rather than trying to make vague words less vague, we should instead seek to make our own language clear to other people so that we can spend less time discussing about semantics, and more time discussing about whether this and that should be in Halo.