Sprint has been with Halo since Halo Reach. Regardless of your stance on sprint it likely isn’t going away. Most likely change is going to be regarding speed, duration, or active/passive effects during sprint.
> 2533274810069050;13124:
> Sprint has been with Halo since Halo Reach. Regardless of your stance on sprint it likely isn’t going away. Most likely change is going to be regarding speed, duration, or active/passive effects during sprint.
The game went downhill when Reach came out and It has continued to decline. What does Halo Reach, 4, 5 have in common? Sprint. There are other issues with H5 (bad progression system, trash maps, hardly any content at launch, trash campaign) but sprint damages the gameplay and Halo isn’t Halo anymore. Why do you think people are leaving? Sprint needs to go.
> 2535455477282651;13125:
> > 2533274810069050;13124:
> > Sprint has been with Halo since Halo Reach. Regardless of your stance on sprint it likely isn’t going away. Most likely change is going to be regarding speed, duration, or active/passive effects during sprint.
>
> The game went downhill when Reach came out and It has continued to decline. What does Halo Reach, 4, 5 have in common? Sprint. There are other issues with H5 (bad progression system, trash maps, hardly any content at launch, trash campaign) but sprint damages the gameplay and Halo isn’t Halo anymore. Why do you think people are leaving? Sprint needs to go.
Halo reach and halo 4 still sold over 9 million copies, Halo reach had a pretty healthy population a year and half later. To Blame the decline of the halo series on sprint is a little ridiculous. From the reviews ive seen of Halo 5s multiplayer it has quite a good record.
Halo 3 at the time achieved what no other game on console achieved, and there are a couple of reasons for this 1. it had good gameplay (i personally wasnt a fan of bullet projectiles or the equipment) 2. Halo 3 was the third instalment in the series and more often than not the 3rd or last game in the story does the best, have a look lord of the rings or harry potter for example, When halo 3 finished the story it closed the story for a lot of people. 3. It had a healthy community of different people like competitive players, forge players, custom gametypes, campaign players. and im sure many more.
Halo right now is battling to be relevant again its up against games like overwatch, destiny, titanfall.
Look how much hate COD games get but yet everyone still buys them, one i think this is due to marketing but also due to the fact that COD never tells a series of storys anymore and they release them yearly now. I think these are some factors to take into account.
> 2533274943854776;13072:
>
> Thanks for the post
No problem, it’s great to see some people can have a decent conversation without insulting one other or calling the other a 343i hater/shill.
> But anything that is subjective is not open to the possibility of being right or wrong. Therefore, as long as it stays subjective I can just say: ‘‘I disagree, I feel differently’’, and the conversation will be over.
That’s true, however, I didn’t oppose to this idea. In fact, I went on to explain, regarding sprint, what I felt was subjective and cannot be changed.
> But there are subjective claims in the OP.
Yes, of course, there are. As I said, he even says they are in many points.
> This is 100% subjective.
Yes, it is. But -Yoink- soon as canon dictates gameplay, the gameplay falls apart. Gameplay shouldn’t change fundamentally just so that people who prefer canon can have a 100% consistent game. Why? Because then people who appreciated Halo’s gameplay for what it was would be losing out. It’s the same reason that Spartans shouldn’t be made unable to go prone and cook grenades as far as canon goes, just because it’s not in the gameplay.
> What is immersion breaking is subjective and many doesn’t mean all.
Yes, I know it is. I plainly said and agreed that immersion is indeed subjective. What I’m saying is, by the definition of immersion, the way sprint works in Halo is rather immersion breaking.
When I say many, I mean many. I’m not sure where you got the implication that I meant all.
> We don’t know why those other things aren’t in the game. And there might be people who want those things in the game.
Still, such additions might have the potential of ruining the gameplay, creating unwelcome synergy, (such as load outs in Halo 4, taking the fact that Halo has always been about equal starts and such, adding a weapon loadout into a game with little weapons creates bad synergy) can potentially break the game or fundamentally change the game. Even if people want it to be in the game, it shouldn’t necessarily be added because, in the long run, it will cause more harm than good.
Just imagine something as wrestling added into Halo.
> But he/she doesn’t objectively know why Halo may or may not feel slow without sprint. He/she also doesn’t know how it would be fixed for those people who have a problem with how fast/slow Halo feels. It is subjective. And you know what else is subjective? ''if you don’t like the way Halo feels without sprint, then Halo simply wasn’t the game for you’’- from his/her OP.
That’s the initial point of the argument. For anyone who was reading that, he would then know that Halo wasn’t actually slow and that their other alternative yet better methods in order to make the original Halo feel faster.
How is the second part subjective? If someone didn’t like the way Halo was without sprint, then the game wasn’t for him. A point easy to comprehend.
> But if it is a part of the devs original vision, sure you can!
Whether it’s part of the developers intended or original vision is irrelevant. When making the gameplay of the game, making sure it’s fun, fluid and balanced should be the priority. A good developer wouldn’t add a game breaking mechanic just because it was what they intended to have.
> But whether or not sprint makes the game more immersive for some people by its definition, is subjective. Sprint might make some people feel more immersed.
I’ve made it quite clear that I’m not opposed to that idea. However, by definition, sprint with the way it’s implemented in Halo should be immersion breaking.
> Yeah, but if there is someone who needs sprint to make the game exciting for them, then it might not matter how sprint might come with drawbacks and bad gameplay. Also, this: ''there was no lack of excitement in previous Halo games for the people that liked the gameplay that they were built upon. As mentioned in an earlier part of this post, Halo doesn’t need to change fundamentally - alienating many who appreciated the original core gameplay - just to please people who aren’t already into the franchise.’’- is subjective.
That doesn’t mean that it can’t be a game-breaking mechanic. This is something that the fans don’t necessarily have to notice, but the developers do. Anything can make anyone excited, but if it can’t work, then it can’t work.
For the second part, this sentence out of the quote should be enough: "there was no lack of excitement in previous Halo games for the people that liked the gameplay that they were built upon."
> But is someone only cares about enjoying sprint in Halo and doesn’t care about how terrible or unbalanced it might be, then it it all that matters.
Like the OP said, anyone can enjoy anything. But if it’s a game-breaking mechanic, it shouldn’t be added. If it can’t work, then it can’t work.
> 2533274876041679;13071:
> Look, I don’t mean to burst your bubble here but, sprint has been apart of Halo since Reach was released. Use logic now, if people truly hated it then it would have been removed long ago. The fact it still exists further proves my point that more people like and enjoy having sprint out weigh the ones opposed to it. Why on God’s green Earth would you remove a game mechanic when the game itself is so adapted for the use of sprint already? Do you even realize how broken and inaccessible areas would be if they suddenly removed sprint from the game? The maps are so large in Halo 5 that it would take forever to complete matches by walking everywhere. It’s one of the main faults in the previous Halos that I dreaded, WALKING. What a nightmare for a super soldier! I can’t imagine a spartan walking everywhere to everything without the ability to put some pep in their step. Your argument is invalid my friend.
> Look, I don’t mean to burst your bubble here but, sprint has been apart of Halo since Reach was released.
I do not believe that just because Bungie did it makes it good. If it was a mechanic introduced in Halo: Reach, then it should probably be dropped.
> Use logic now, if people truly hated it then it would have been removed long ago. The fact it still exists further proves my point that more people like and enjoy having sprint out weigh the ones opposed to it.
While logically this should be true, it isn’t. Ultimately, it’s the developers’ decision to remove something or keep it, not ours. For example, we can have something that no one asked for it to be removed, but the developers can still remove it for their own reasons. We can have something that everyone dislikes and want gone, but the developers would still keep it in regardless. We only have a small influence on the decisions of the developers. So using the mechanics’ existence as a proof of more people liking sprint than disliking it is ridiculously absurd.
As far as we’re all concerned, we don’t have any concrete evidence of one set of people outweighing the other set of people, and I doubt we’ll ever have. But one can say that since sprint’s inclusion, the sales and the player population slowly went down. But this argument is also silly, as there can be multiple reasons for such outcome.
> Why on God’s green Earth would you remove a game mechanic when the game itself is so adapted for the use of sprint already?
Then it can be unadapted to its use. Simple.
> Do you even realize how broken and inaccessible areas would be if they suddenly removed sprint from the game? The maps are so large in Halo 5 that it would take forever to complete matches by walking everywhere.
I don’t think anyone asked for sprint to be removed from Halo 5: G, but rather for the future titles. I think everyone understands that suddenly removing sprint would compound even more problems.
> It’s one of the main faults in the previous Halos that I dreaded, WALKING. What a nightmare for a super soldier! I can’t imagine a spartan walking everywhere to everything without the ability to put some pep in their step.
I think whether I’m walking or not doesn’t matter, it’s the speed in which I traverse areas with what matters. With how big maps in Halo 5: G are, walking in the previous Halo’s is no different than sprinting in Halo 5: G. In fact, it’s worse for the Spartan here because his suit suddenly can’t function properly because he added a bit of speed. Not to mention the fact that Spartans get canceled out of sprint when shot or can’t hold their weapon up when they’re moving slightly faster.
You see, all these three things don’t make sense for a super soldier or in general to be the way they are in Halo 5: G, but they’re like that in order to make for a better experience for the player.
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> > >
>
> - Fast paced gameplay +1
> - The ability to spartan charge into an enemy destroying their shields for easy kills +1
> - Reaching high areas by providing longer jump-time and speed / Reaching hidden areas in the campaign +1
> - The ability to make a quick get-away when in the heat of combat +1
>
> Those are just a few, I could list even more if requested. I do understand the downsides to having sprint as well however, the ones that are complaining about it obviously don’t know how to use it to their advantage. They most likely rage because they can’t keep up with the flow of game, just my guess. I’m sorry you feel this way, but regardless I’m in favor of sprint and will stand by it if I have to.
> - Fast paced gameplay +1
The inclusion of sprint is irrelevant to the speed of the game. Games are as fast as developers intended it to be. If the developers want sprint in but still intend it to be slow, then they can and they have full control over that.
> - The ability to spartan charge into an enemy destroying their shields for easy kills +1
As far as I’ve heard from people, the inclusion of Spartan Charge caused a lot more issues then fixed them.
> - Reaching high areas by providing longer jump-time and speed / Reaching hidden areas in the campaign +1
Sprint doesn’t allow you to jump higher, or at least this is the case for Halo 5: G. I also think that you forgot that things such as grav lifts, crouch jumping, grenade/rocket jumping exist
> - The ability to make a quick get-away when in the heat of combat +1
You can’t, because in the heat of combat, you’re likely to get shot and thus you won’t be able to sprint anymore. You also have to take in account two things: 1. This isn’t necessarily a +1. It might be for the one escaping, but for the one who you escaped by is left frustrated. 2. The style of game such mechanic is implemented to. For games like Call of Duty, such thing isn’t a problem because of the low kill times, but Halo games tend to have high kill times, so considering the fact that it’s already tough to kill an opponent, providing more ways to escape is frustrating which shows incompetent game design.
> Halo is evolving and changing, I’ll be -Yoink!- if I play a Halo game without sprint.
Halo isn’t evolving, it’s changing, and if it’s changing, then it’s not Halo anymore.
> I’ll be -Yoink!- if I play a Halo game without sprint.
Well then sorry that Halo wasn’t the game for you. But I guess that’s why we have multiple games, and that’s why creating more clones of other games is a bad idea. One game can’t simply cater to everyone, but it should at least be true to its self.
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> > > Sprint has been with Halo since Halo Reach. Regardless of your stance on sprint it likely isn’t going away. Most likely change is going to be regarding speed, duration, or active/passive effects during sprint.
> >
> > The game went downhill when Reach came out and It has continued to decline. What does Halo Reach, 4, 5 have in common? Sprint. There are other issues with H5 (bad progression system, trash maps, hardly any content at launch, trash campaign) but sprint damages the gameplay and Halo isn’t Halo anymore. Why do you think people are leaving? Sprint needs to go.
>
> Halo reach and halo 4 still sold over 9 million copies, Halo reach had a pretty healthy population a year and half later. To Blame the decline of the halo series on sprint is a little ridiculous. From the reviews ive seen of Halo 5s multiplayer it has quite a good record.
>
> Halo 3 at the time achieved what no other game on console achieved, and there are a couple of reasons for this 1. it had good gameplay (i personally wasnt a fan of bullet projectiles or the equipment) 2. Halo 3 was the third instalment in the series and more often than not the 3rd or last game in the story does the best, have a look lord of the rings or harry potter for example, When halo 3 finished the story it closed the story for a lot of people. 3. It had a healthy community of different people like competitive players, forge players, custom gametypes, campaign players. and im sure many more.
>
> Halo right now is battling to be relevant again its up against games like overwatch, destiny, titanfall.
>
> Look how much hate COD games get but yet everyone still buys them, one i think this is due to marketing but also due to the fact that COD never tells a series of storys anymore and they release them yearly now. I think these are some factors to take into account.
When you have sprint in your game you have to add other mechanics to counter some of the bad things about sprint. (Clamber, thrust, spartan charge)
When you add those mechanics in your game you have to change map design and the way the weapon functions. The game doesn’t play like Halo CE-3 and no one is really interested anymore. It’s like a different game and in most people’s opinion a downgrade (look at sales and population).
Take Halo 3 make the maps like CoD and lower the weapons ttk and make the guns easy to use and the game is CoD with hip fire. That’s a good example on how map design and weapon design affects the gameplay.
It’s different. I love Halo 5 but hate it because I want a REAL halo game.
But yeah there are still other issues with halo.
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> > > > > > > > > I like sprint quite a bit. Keep it.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Why do you like it quite a bit. And why should it remain in future Halo’s. Gotta explain yourself don’t just say you like it.
> > > > > > > > But yeah here’s why I think it should be removed.
> > > > > > > > 1. The weapons and maps are designed around Spartan abilities, one player movement speed but you have people sprinting and not sprinting. . Maps are stretched out, are more vertical, and the cover is spread out. The weapons are much easier to use and have lower TTKs. So when you are getting out played by someone with an easy to use gun with a low TTK that has been designed around Sprint and enhanced movement and are on maps that have been stretched out it is a frustrating experience. And when you have players moving around the map at different speeds it affects map flow.
> > > > > > > > The game played better when maps and guns were designed around one player movement speed and had players all moving at one movement speed
> > > > > > > > 2. Sprint allows players to get away easily. This is a downgrade and is a frustrating experience. Also takes away some of the skill.
> > > > > > > > Players can get away from their opponents in a more interesting way, more fun way, and less frustrating ways.(Throw a grav lift and get onto the higher ground.) (Crouch jump onto a ledge, pick up a shotgun and wait for your opponent to challenge) These ways of escaping are less frustrating, more skilful, and definitely more interesting than just pressing buttons on your controller.
> > > > > > > > 3. Sprint promotes Spartan charge/double melees. This is also downgrading the gameplay experience and is incredibly frustrating. Also takes away some of the skill. Engagements are more fun when people are using there gun rather than running around meleeing other players.
> > > > > > > > 4. Players are very unpredictably annoying. This also downgrade the gameplay experience and leads to a frustrating experience. Also takes away some of the skill. People can just Sprint out of no where and get easy kills because they are bad at positioning. In real Halo games you had to position yourself and move around the map carefully, one bad move and you can die. Getting outplayed by someone isn’t frustrating. Getting outplayed by someone because they can run up to you out of no wh
> > > > > > > > ere and just spray with an AR is frustrating and scares off potential new players.
> > > > > > > > There are more interesting and much more fun ways to get around the map and engage players. (Grenade jump onto a ledge and crouch jump into their base. Sounds much more fun than just sprinting in the base with an AR frustrating the opponents.)
> > > > > > > > 5. In older Halo’s you are moving around at a decently fast pace with your gun up at all times. In Halo 5 you have to put your gun down and press buttons to move around the map. This takes away what made Halo unique. Being simple. And coming around a corner with your gun down to get killed by someone with an AR is also a frustrating experience and it yes downgrades the gameplay experience. There is nothing fun about getting killed by an AR and not being able to do much because you have to sprint In order to get around the map properly. Engagements are more fun when there isn’t Sprint and players move around with their gun up at all times. This also affects the golden triangle. 3 things of Halo shoot, melee, grenade.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Oh my bad. 
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I like it because:
> > > > > > > 1: It allows players an extra option to get away
> > > > > > > 2: It makes it easier to transverse the map
> > > > > > > 3: It forces players to become more versatile at defeating escape tactics. If you don’t want your target to run, gotta learn not to give the target the opportunity.
> > > > > > > 4: It’s nice for closing distance against another player quickly.
> > > > > > > 5: Have to learn when to learn when to use sprint because when sprinting your gun is lowered. This opens you up to attackers. This also makes it easier to kill another player if they dont know how to use sprint.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1. That’s a bad thing. Not even going to explain myself everyone knows it.
> > > > > > 2. Maps are built around maximum player movement speed. You can get from point a to point b if your game has sprint or no sprint.
> > > > > > 3. if you read my other post I explain how engagements are more frustrating when maps and weapons are designed with maximum player movement.
> > > > > > You gotta learn how to not let your opponent get away in any FPS. When the maps and weapons are built around one player movement speed it is more skillful and makesee the gameplay experience more enjoyable.
> > > > > > 4. Closing in on players is more enjoyable and less frustrating for the opponent when maps are built around one movement speed.
> > > > > > 5. This affects the golden triangle, ruins map flow, and causes balance issues because people need to put thier gun down to move around the map properly
> > > > > > Couple of ok reasons why sprint can be good but the negatives just out weight the positives when it comes to sprint In halo.
> > > > >
> > > > > I disagree, but you are entitled to your opinion. 
> > > >
> > > > Obviously everything said here is an opinion. But it is obvious sprint and enhanced movement damages Halo’s gameplay.
> > > > I kinda agree with 1 maybe 2 things you said but like I said way more negatives than positives.
> > >
> > > I wouldn’t say it damages Halo’s game play. I’d say it keeps the game play changing a little with each new iteration. Which is nice otherwise we’d end up with Halo being like Cod; basically every game iteration playing the same, and feeling the same in terms of gameplay. This keeps it fresher and less repetitive. It also forces the hardcore players (like us) to evolve our playstyles a little. I personally think the positives outweigh the negatives. At first i didn’t like sprint, but that’s mostly because I didn’t know how to use it, or counter it. Once I got the hang of it, it wasn’t so bad.
> > >
> > > I think the main struggle people have with sprint (or other abilities for that matter) is play style conflict. I remember this topic being an issue with Halo Reach.
> >
> > My 5 reasons out weigh your 2 weak reasons. You didn’t even counter them
> > You don’t change the gameplay you innovate outside of the gameplay that’s why CoD is still going strong
>
> Chill fam.
>
> All this is opinion based, I don’t need to “counter” your reasons. You aren’t going to change my mind any more than I’m going to change yours, and thats ok. I would like to keep our discourse civil.
>
> I would also disagree with CoD going strong. I’ve read that Infinite Warfare amd the last couple have had lower sales than both Halo and particularly Battlefield because CoD lacks any type of variation. Sure they add some new weapons, or perhaps some new equipment, but in essence it seems that its just a new label for something that was already in the game.
>
> Black Ops 3 didn’t seem to hold to that; there was an explosion of new gameplay.
BO3’s weapon design was still like CoD and th3 maps were like CoD but slightly different. In Halo 5 your guns function very different and maps are also very different. It’s great but too different and people have lost interest because of this.
You say sprint in Halo improves the gameplay so you should be able to counter my reasons for why sprint is bad.
Maybe you just like the feeling of sprinting and feeling like a spartan so you say it’s a good gameplay mechanic? That’s really the only improvement it brings to Halo’s gameplay but there are too many negatives.
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> > > > > > > > > I like sprint quite a bit. Keep it.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Why do you like it quite a bit. And why should it remain in future Halo’s. Gotta explain yourself don’t just say you like it.
> > > > > > > > But yeah here’s why I think it should be removed.
> > > > > > > > 1. The weapons and maps are designed around Spartan abilities, one player movement speed but you have people sprinting and not sprinting. . Maps are stretched out, are more vertical, and the cover is spread out. The weapons are much easier to use and have lower TTKs. So when you are getting out played by someone with an easy to use gun with a low TTK that has been designed around Sprint and enhanced movement and are on maps that have been stretched out it is a frustrating experience. And when you have players moving around the map at different speeds it affects map flow.
> > > > > > > > The game played better when maps and guns were designed around one player movement speed and had players all moving at one movement speed
> > > > > > > > 2. Sprint allows players to get away easily. This is a downgrade and is a frustrating experience. Also takes away some of the skill.
> > > > > > > > Players can get away from their opponents in a more interesting way, more fun way, and less frustrating ways.(Throw a grav lift and get onto the higher ground.) (Crouch jump onto a ledge, pick up a shotgun and wait for your opponent to challenge) These ways of escaping are less frustrating, more skilful, and definitely more interesting than just pressing buttons on your controller.
> > > > > > > > 3. Sprint promotes Spartan charge/double melees. This is also downgrading the gameplay experience and is incredibly frustrating. Also takes away some of the skill. Engagements are more fun when people are using there gun rather than running around meleeing other players.
> > > > > > > > 4. Players are very unpredictably annoying. This also downgrade the gameplay experience and leads to a frustrating experience. Also takes away some of the skill. People can just Sprint out of no where and get easy kills because they are bad at positioning. In real Halo games you had to position yourself and move around the map carefully, one bad move and you can die. Getting outplayed by someone isn’t frustrating. Getting outplayed by someone because they can run up to you out of no wh
> > > > > > > > ere and just spray with an AR is frustrating and scares off potential new players.
> > > > > > > > There are more interesting and much more fun ways to get around the map and engage players. (Grenade jump onto a ledge and crouch jump into their base. Sounds much more fun than just sprinting in the base with an AR frustrating the opponents.)
> > > > > > > > 5. In older Halo’s you are moving around at a decently fast pace with your gun up at all times. In Halo 5 you have to put your gun down and press buttons to move around the map. This takes away what made Halo unique. Being simple. And coming around a corner with your gun down to get killed by someone with an AR is also a frustrating experience and it yes downgrades the gameplay experience. There is nothing fun about getting killed by an AR and not being able to do much because you have to sprint In order to get around the map properly. Engagements are more fun when there isn’t Sprint and players move around with their gun up at all times. This also affects the golden triangle. 3 things of Halo shoot, melee, grenade.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Oh my bad.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I like it because:
> > > > > > > 1: It allows players an extra option to get away
> > > > > > > 2: It makes it easier to transverse the map
> > > > > > > 3: It forces players to become more versatile at defeating escape tactics. If you don’t want your target to run, gotta learn not to give the target the opportunity.
> > > > > > > 4: It’s nice for closing distance against another player quickly.
> > > > > > > 5: Have to learn when to learn when to use sprint because when sprinting your gun is lowered. This opens you up to attackers. This also makes it easier to kill another player if they dont know how to use sprint.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1. That’s a bad thing. Not even going to explain myself everyone knows it.
> > > > > > 2. Maps are built around maximum player movement speed. You can get from point a to point b if your game has sprint or no sprint.
> > > > > > 3. if you read my other post I explain how engagements are more frustrating when maps and weapons are designed with maximum player movement.
> > > > > > You gotta learn how to not let your opponent get away in any FPS. When the maps and weapons are built around one player movement speed it is more skillful and makesee the gameplay experience more enjoyable.
> > > > > > 4. Closing in on players is more enjoyable and less frustrating for the opponent when maps are built around one movement speed.
> > > > > > 5. This affects the golden triangle, ruins map flow, and causes balance issues because people need to put thier gun down to move around the map properly
> > > > > > Couple of ok reasons why sprint can be good but the negatives just out weight the positives when it comes to sprint In halo.
> > > > >
> > > > > I disagree, but you are entitled to your opinion.
> > > >
> > > > Obviously everything said here is an opinion. But it is obvious sprint and enhanced movement damages Halo’s gameplay.
> > > > I kinda agree with 1 maybe 2 things you said but like I said way more negatives than positives.
> > >
> > > I wouldn’t say it damages Halo’s game play. I’d say it keeps the game play changing a little with each new iteration. Which is nice otherwise we’d end up with Halo being like Cod; basically every game iteration playing the same, and feeling the same in terms of gameplay. This keeps it fresher and less repetitive. It also forces the hardcore players (like us) to evolve our playstyles a little. I personally think the positives outweigh the negatives. At first i didn’t like sprint, but that’s mostly because I didn’t know how to use it, or counter it. Once I got the hang of it, it wasn’t so bad.
> > >
> > > I think the main struggle people have with sprint (or other abilities for that matter) is play style conflict. I remember this topic being an issue with Halo Reach.
> >
> > My 5 reasons out weigh your 2 weak reasons. You didn’t even counter them
> > You don’t change the gameplay you innovate outside of the gameplay that’s why CoD is still going strong
>
> Chill fam.
>
> All this is opinion based, I don’t need to “counter” your reasons. You aren’t going to change my mind any more than I’m going to change yours, and thats ok. I would like to keep our discourse civil.
>
> I would also disagree with CoD going strong. I’ve read that Infinite Warfare amd the last couple have had lower sales than both Halo and particularly Battlefield because CoD lacks any type of variation. Sure they add some new weapons, or perhaps some new equipment, but in essence it seems that its just a new label for something that was already in the game.
>
> Black Ops 3 didn’t seem to hold to that; there was an explosion of new gameplay.
CoD hasn’t sold less than a halo game since h2, so you’re “reading” false information. CoD is still the #1 fps in sales and population on the market at the moment.
Everything that apparently makes sprint good in Halo has been countered.
The only benefit it has is that it makes you feel like a spartan. That’s really it lmao the game is much better without it. Opinion or not I don’t care what you say the game is better without it the game was better without it. Don’t understand why people defend it.
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> > > > > > > > > > I like sprint quite a bit. Keep it.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Why do you like it quite a bit. And why should it remain in future Halo’s. Gotta explain yourself don’t just say you like it.
> > > > > > > > > But yeah here’s why I think it should be removed.
> > > > > > > > > 1. The weapons and maps are designed around Spartan abilities, one player movement speed but you have people sprinting and not sprinting. . Maps are stretched out, are more vertical, and the cover is spread out. The weapons are much easier to use and have lower TTKs. So when you are getting out played by someone with an easy to use gun with a low TTK that has been designed around Sprint and enhanced movement and are on maps that have been stretched out it is a frustrating experience. And when you have players moving around the map at different speeds it affects map flow.
> > > > > > > > > The game played better when maps and guns were designed around one player movement speed and had players all moving at one movement speed
> > > > > > > > > 2. Sprint allows players to get away easily. This is a downgrade and is a frustrating experience. Also takes away some of the skill.
> > > > > > > > > Players can get away from their opponents in a more interesting way, more fun way, and less frustrating ways.(Throw a grav lift and get onto the higher ground.) (Crouch jump onto a ledge, pick up a shotgun and wait for your opponent to challenge) These ways of escaping are less frustrating, more skilful, and definitely more interesting than just pressing buttons on your controller.
> > > > > > > > > 3. Sprint promotes Spartan charge/double melees. This is also downgrading the gameplay experience and is incredibly frustrating. Also takes away some of the skill. Engagements are more fun when people are using there gun rather than running around meleeing other players.
> > > > > > > > > 4. Players are very unpredictably annoying. This also downgrade the gameplay experience and leads to a frustrating experience. Also takes away some of the skill. People can just Sprint out of no where and get easy kills because they are bad at positioning. In real Halo games you had to position yourself and move around the map carefully, one bad move and you can die. Getting outplayed by someone isn’t frustrating. Getting outplayed by someone because they can run up to you out of no wh
> > > > > > > > > ere and just spray with an AR is frustrating and scares off potential new players.
> > > > > > > > > There are more interesting and much more fun ways to get around the map and engage players. (Grenade jump onto a ledge and crouch jump into their base. Sounds much more fun than just sprinting in the base with an AR frustrating the opponents.)
> > > > > > > > > 5. In older Halo’s you are moving around at a decently fast pace with your gun up at all times. In Halo 5 you have to put your gun down and press buttons to move around the map. This takes away what made Halo unique. Being simple. And coming around a corner with your gun down to get killed by someone with an AR is also a frustrating experience and it yes downgrades the gameplay experience. There is nothing fun about getting killed by an AR and not being able to do much because you have to sprint In order to get around the map properly. Engagements are more fun when there isn’t Sprint and players move around with their gun up at all times. This also affects the golden triangle. 3 things of Halo shoot, melee, grenade.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Oh my bad.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I like it because:
> > > > > > > > 1: It allows players an extra option to get away
> > > > > > > > 2: It makes it easier to transverse the map
> > > > > > > > 3: It forces players to become more versatile at defeating escape tactics. If you don’t want your target to run, gotta learn not to give the target the opportunity.
> > > > > > > > 4: It’s nice for closing distance against another player quickly.
> > > > > > > > 5: Have to learn when to learn when to use sprint because when sprinting your gun is lowered. This opens you up to attackers. This also makes it easier to kill another player if they dont know how to use sprint.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 1. That’s a bad thing. Not even going to explain myself everyone knows it.
> > > > > > > 2. Maps are built around maximum player movement speed. You can get from point a to point b if your game has sprint or no sprint.
> > > > > > > 3. if you read my other post I explain how engagements are more frustrating when maps and weapons are designed with maximum player movement.
> > > > > > > You gotta learn how to not let your opponent get away in any FPS. When the maps and weapons are built around one player movement speed it is more skillful and makesee the gameplay experience more enjoyable.
> > > > > > > 4. Closing in on players is more enjoyable and less frustrating for the opponent when maps are built around one movement speed.
> > > > > > > 5. This affects the golden triangle, ruins map flow, and causes balance issues because people need to put thier gun down to move around the map properly
> > > > > > > Couple of ok reasons why sprint can be good but the negatives just out weight the positives when it comes to sprint In halo.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I disagree, but you are entitled to your opinion.
> > > > >
> > > > > Obviously everything said here is an opinion. But it is obvious sprint and enhanced movement damages Halo’s gameplay.
> > > > > I kinda agree with 1 maybe 2 things you said but like I said way more negatives than positives.
> > > >
> > > > I wouldn’t say it damages Halo’s game play. I’d say it keeps the game play changing a little with each new iteration. Which is nice otherwise we’d end up with Halo being like Cod; basically every game iteration playing the same, and feeling the same in terms of gameplay. This keeps it fresher and less repetitive. It also forces the hardcore players (like us) to evolve our playstyles a little. I personally think the positives outweigh the negatives. At first i didn’t like sprint, but that’s mostly because I didn’t know how to use it, or counter it. Once I got the hang of it, it wasn’t so bad.
> > > >
> > > > I think the main struggle people have with sprint (or other abilities for that matter) is play style conflict. I remember this topic being an issue with Halo Reach.
> > >
> > > My 5 reasons out weigh your 2 weak reasons. You didn’t even counter them
> > > You don’t change the gameplay you innovate outside of the gameplay that’s why CoD is still going strong
> >
> > Chill fam.
> >
> > All this is opinion based, I don’t need to “counter” your reasons. You aren’t going to change my mind any more than I’m going to change yours, and thats ok. I would like to keep our discourse civil.
> >
> > I would also disagree with CoD going strong. I’ve read that Infinite Warfare amd the last couple have had lower sales than both Halo and particularly Battlefield because CoD lacks any type of variation. Sure they add some new weapons, or perhaps some new equipment, but in essence it seems that its just a new label for something that was already in the game.
> >
> > Black Ops 3 didn’t seem to hold to that; there was an explosion of new gameplay.
>
> CoD hasn’t sold less than a halo game since h2, so you’re “reading” false information. CoD is still the #1 fps in sales and population on the market at the moment.
In the UK/EU most played list we have not one, not two, but three COD games sitting in the top ten. One of which is the remastered, 9 year old, COD 4.
The fans of those games still find those games, and that game play, fun. And being able to populate three games to a high level sounds like going strong to me. (regardless of how much i hate the franchise and game play myself)
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> Everything that apparently makes sprint good in Halo has been countered.
> The only benefit it has is that it makes you feel like a spartan. That’s really it lmao the game is much better without it. Opinion or not I don’t care what you say the game is better without it the game was better without it. Don’t understand why people defend it.
I’m sure there are also people who can’t understand why you want it gone either. 
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> > > Sprint has been with Halo since Halo Reach. Regardless of your stance on sprint it likely isn’t going away. Most likely change is going to be regarding speed, duration, or active/passive effects during sprint.
> >
> > The game went downhill when Reach came out and It has continued to decline. What does Halo Reach, 4, 5 have in common? Sprint. There are other issues with H5 (bad progression system, trash maps, hardly any content at launch, trash campaign) but sprint damages the gameplay and Halo isn’t Halo anymore. Why do you think people are leaving? Sprint needs to go.
>
> Halo reach and halo 4 still sold over 9 million copies, Halo reach had a pretty healthy population a year and half later. To Blame the decline of the halo series on sprint is a little ridiculous. From the reviews ive seen of Halo 5s multiplayer it has quite a good record.
>
> Halo 3 at the time achieved what no other game on console achieved, and there are a couple of reasons for this 1. it had good gameplay (i personally wasnt a fan of bullet projectiles or the equipment) 2. Halo 3 was the third instalment in the series and more often than not the 3rd or last game in the story does the best, have a look lord of the rings or harry potter for example, When halo 3 finished the story it closed the story for a lot of people. 3. It had a healthy community of different people like competitive players, forge players, custom gametypes, campaign players. and im sure many more.
>
> Halo right now is battling to be relevant again its up against games like overwatch, destiny, titanfall.
>
> Look how much hate COD games get but yet everyone still buys them, one i think this is due to marketing but also due to the fact that COD never tells a series of storys anymore and they release them yearly now. I think these are some factors to take into account.
Well said.
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> i think the game without sprinting is worthless like if you are playing warzone firefight and u are on the other side of the map it will take you atleast a minute or two to get to the other side without sprinting ,but with sprinting you can get there in thirty seconds or less , well my idea is to make an option to turn on and off the sprinting ability
This could help solve the issue as well. Have modes like a Classic Halo (someone else’s idea, not mine) that have no sprint. That way they can make more people happy.
This could be nice if they decided to do anniversary playlists again
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> > i think the game without sprinting is worthless like if you are playing warzone firefight and u are on the other side of the map it will take you atleast a minute or two to get to the other side without sprinting ,but with sprinting you can get there in thirty seconds or less , well my idea is to make an option to turn on and off the sprinting ability
>
> This could help solve the issue as well. Have modes like a Classic Halo (someone else’s idea, not mine) that have no sprint. That way they can make more people happy.
>
> This could be nice if they decided to do anniversary playlists again
This has been said before, and it wouldn’t work. Too much was changed to account for base sprint. Maps are too big, there is too much bullet magnetism on guns, and explosion radius’ are huge.
Love the sprint.
What, don’t like running?
Gotta work out, not just go for a walk.
- Palmer
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> > >
> 1: It allows players an extra option to get away
This would be alright when it comes to games like the Call of Duty or Titanfall franchise as the low time-to-kill in both games compensate for the fact that players can easily run away using sprint. But when it comes to a game like Halo, adding an easy option for a player to get away, it would get frustrating as you can load seconds worth of shooting a player and he would still get away at the last moment.
> 2: It makes it easier to transverse the map
This isn’t the case, as maps are significantly bigger in Halo 5 and 4 then the original trilogy.
> 3: It forces players to become more versatile at defeating escape tactics. If you don’t want your target to run, gotta learn not to give the target the opportunity.
It doesn’t force the player to do so, because if sprint doesn’t exist, then there would no use to come up with tactics to counter it.
> 4: It’s nice for closing distance against another player quickly.
Like it’s already been said, maps are bigger in Halo 4 and 5 to compensate for its inclusion.
> 5: Have to learn when to learn when to use sprint because when sprinting your gun is lowered. This opens you up to attackers. This also makes it easier to kill another player if they dont know how to use sprint
As for point 3, no one would really need to learn when to sprint or not if doesn’t exist, rendering this point useless.
> I disagree, but you are entitled to your opinion.
You can’t disagree with most, if not all of the points. Some of these are the plain truth facts.
Regarding map design being expanded:
> "Again, game mechanics have a direct bearing. In Halo 3, sprinting was impossible. In Halo: Reach, sprinting was a selectable armor ability. In Halo 4, everyone’s at it, and the maps have grown to compensate." - Kynan Pearson
> Changes from Midship - The map is significantly larger than Midship, probably to account for sprint.
> I wouldn’t say it damages Halo’s game play. I’d say it keeps the game play changing a little with each new iteration.
Incorrect, if the maps are significantly larger and are designed differently to account for sprint, then the game didn’t just change “a little”. Keep in mind the other additions such as ground pound, thruster, slide, stabilizers, spartan charge, etc.
> Which is nice otherwise we’d end up with Halo being like Cod; basically every game iteration playing the same, and feeling the same in terms of gameplay.
Sprint isn’t a necessary factor in order for a game to not be the same every year. We can evolve a game or add more into a game rather than changing it. Gears of War 4 is basically another typical Gears of War game but with the slight new additions, tweaks, fixes that it added it feels like a fresh new experience while still keeping that core feel of Gears.
Something else to keep in mind, one of the reasons that Call of Duty felt stale, boring or repetitive quickly is the fact that a new game was releasing each year and the only difference is new weapons or maps.
> It also forces the hardcore players (like us) to evolve our playstyles a little.
Halo’s gameplay has so drastically changed that the way you control Halo has changed. What other fans of a game series, be it CoD or Mario or Battlefield or Counter Strike, must relearn the fundamentals of how to play sequels within their series?
> I personally think the positives outweigh the negatives.
Positives? Such as?
> I think the main struggle people have with sprint (or other abilities for that matter) is play style conflict. I remember this topic being an issue with Halo Reach.
When it comes to this thread, I’ve hardly seen anyone complain about their struggle of using sprint and how it affects their play style conflict.
Of course, this was an issue in Halo: Reach, as the game was the first Halo to release with sprint, but by now it’s been 6 years and 3 Halo games since sprint was introduced into Halo, thus the “adapt” argument falls flat.
> I would also disagree with CoD going strong. I’ve read that Infinite Warfare amd the last couple have had lower sales than both Halo and particularly Battlefield because CoD lacks any type of variation.
> __Despite shipping $1 billion worth of units to retail channels within 24 hours of the game’s launch, overall sales were down compared to 2012’s Call of Duty: Black Ops II. Activision blamed the fall in demand on uncertainty caused by the upcoming transition to eight generation consoles. As of February 2014, the game has sold over 19 million copies.__https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Call_of_Duty:_Ghosts#Sales
> _It was reported in November 2014 that US retail sales of Advanced Warfare were 27% down on 2013’s Call of Duty: Ghosts. Despite the decline, Advanced Warfare was still the top selling game at US retail for 2014._https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Call_of_Duty:_Advanced_Warfare#Sales
> _Black Ops III sold ‘significantly’ better than Advanced Warfare and Ghosts, the two previous video game titles in the Call of Duty franchise, with Black Ops III making more than $550 million in sales during its first three days of release. In the United Kingdom, Black Ops III beat Halo 5: Guardians to become the top selling game. In November, Black Ops III was the top best selling game according to NPD’s figures. Black Ops III later became the top selling game of 2015. According to Activision, Black Ops III was one of the best-selling games released for the eighth generation of video game consoles, and that its financial performance is significantly better than its predecessor, Call of Duty: Advanced Warfare._https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Call_of_Duty:_Black_Ops_III#Sales
> _Infinite Warfare sold 1.8 million copies in it’s first week and became the top selling title on the UK sales charts. However, overall sales were down 50% compared to 2015’s Call of Duty: Black Ops III. Activision was reported to be expecting sales to be down due to the fact that Infinite Warfare was going to be a “new sub-series” and that the Black Ops name carried brand weight with it._https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Call_of_Duty:_Infinite_Warfare#Sales
Don’t really know about Battlefield doing better than Call of Duty, but Halo definitely is not.
According to the Xbox One Most Popular List (Xbox Games Catalog: All Games | Xbox):
- Call of Duty: Black Ops 3 sits 4th. - Call of Duty: Infinite Warfare sits 7th, right behind Battlefield 1. - Call of Duty: Modern Warfare sits 11th. - Where’s Halo 5: G, the main flagship title of the Xbox One, sits 19th.When it comes to the reason why Call of Duty’s sales has been going down, we can only assume.
> Sure they add some new weapons, or perhaps some new equipment, but in essence it seems that its just a new label for something that was already in the game.
Call of Duty has changed drastically since Call of Duty: Advanced Warfare when it comes to gameplay. And Call of Duty fans since has been asking for the franchise to return to its roots.
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>
I feel like you might have misinterpreted my initial reply, and thus I feel like I need to clear some things up:
While you’re correct that most if not all of those points are entirely subjective, the thing is, none of those points are good arguments or reasons for sprints’ inclusion or existence.
Halo feels slow? The clear and cut truth is, Halo is as slow/fast as it was before. And if one likes the illusion of sprint, there are multiple alternatives that could replace sprint and give us the illusion of speed which the OP listed in 4 points. The one which I particularly liked the most was increasing the FOV, and looking at videos and also testing it out in Halo: Online and Halo 5: Forge (PC) it really gives you the feeling of moving around your surroundings faster.
When it comes to the 2 points of “canon > gameplay/excitement & franticness” while it’s subjective, we have to keep in mind that this is a video game, and while certain things can be in canon (and would make sense to be in the game) or provide excitement, they can also potentially ruin the gameplay and thus rendering them inappropriate to have them in this certain game.
For the “I enjoy sprint and that’s all that matters” argument, it’s just simply false. Especially if you’re the one developing a game. While fun is an important factor, there are also other factors as important as fun such as balance. Something can be fun on paper, but it can’t work then it can’t or shouldn’t be implemented.
For the immersion argument, it’s something that I’d personally rather ignore.
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> > > i think the game without sprinting is worthless like if you are playing warzone firefight and u are on the other side of the map it will take you atleast a minute or two to get to the other side without sprinting ,but with sprinting you can get there in thirty seconds or less , well my idea is to make an option to turn on and off the sprinting ability
> >
> > This could help solve the issue as well. Have modes like a Classic Halo (someone else’s idea, not mine) that have no sprint. That way they can make more people happy.
> >
> > This could be nice if they decided to do anniversary playlists again
>
> This has been said before, and it wouldn’t work. Too much was changed to account for base sprint. Maps are too big, there is too much bullet magnetism on guns, and explosion radius’ are huge.
You can used the forged maps of Halo 2 and 3 and put them in the playlist and reduce the grenade radius.
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> > > > i think the game without sprinting is worthless like if you are playing warzone firefight and u are on the other side of the map it will take you atleast a minute or two to get to the other side without sprinting ,but with sprinting you can get there in thirty seconds or less , well my idea is to make an option to turn on and off the sprinting ability
> > >
> > > This could help solve the issue as well. Have modes like a Classic Halo (someone else’s idea, not mine) that have no sprint. That way they can make more people happy.
> > >
> > > This could be nice if they decided to do anniversary playlists again
> >
> > This has been said before, and it wouldn’t work. Too much was changed to account for base sprint. Maps are too big, there is too much bullet magnetism on guns, and explosion radius’ are huge.
>
> You can used the forged maps of Halo 2 and 3 and put them in the playlist and reduce the grenade radius.
Increase base movement speed a little too.