> 2533274801176260;1274:
> > 2533274926527272;1263:
> > > 2533274801176260;1190:
> > > > 2533274839169051;1185:
> > > > Although H5G is still making money…thanks to the Req Packs?!?
> > > > It seems like the Halo community is just the core fans now.
> > > > A smaller but fanatic group who will be here to the end.
> > > > I honestly think there is no fix, sprint or non-sprint that brings back the glory days.
> > > > Removing sprint just feels like condemning the future to BR starts, Midship, Ascension and Lockout till the end of eternity.
> > >
> > >
> > > What does Req Packs have to do with gameplay mechanics?
> > > Don’t you think they could make money with microtransactions in a classic game all the same?
> > > Even so, how much money have they made through Reqs? A quick google search sais 1.5 Million in February. Let’s be generous and round that up to 2M by now.
> > > H5G has sold around 2.5 Million copies less than even ODST. With 60$ per copy (In the US, that is. Here in Europe, I’m paying 80€ for any new game release) that alone accounts for 150 Million Dollars less revenue than the next-best-selling Halo title, which even was a spinoff-title. The difference only gets worse when you compare it to Halo 4 or Reach. Those few bucks from Reqs are peanuts compared to that.
> >
> >
> > Halo 5 sold over five million copies. Try again.
>
>
> ODST sold over 6.3 Million copies, H5G sold around 4. No idea where you get that five million figure.
Here’s one and here is Frankie himself confirming this. No idea where you get that four million figure, however.
> 2533274801176260;1278:
> > 2533274809738692;1267:
> > I’ll just say this, so don’t take it the wrong way, but the very fact that you have to point this out and explain that there have already been reports shows that it should be locked already. Many threads have been locked for less, so there must be a reason this particular thread is still open.
>
>
> So that people who intentionally want to kill this thread succeed?
> Great, then from now on, people will just flood every thread they don’t like with spam in order to get rid of it.
> Cyber-Bullying at its finest…
I want to point out that I was not the one who said that.
> 2533274809738692;1273:
> I again don’t know if anyone has responded to this, but the reason these maps seem so big is due to all the new movement mechanics. The whole point of this thread is to blame one mechanic on how the maps are and how this one plays. You and I are truly on the same page here, I’m just trying to point out that sprint isn’t the sole reason for things in this game. And I also want to point out that if you were to increase base movement speed to the current top speed, it would have the same result as sprint and the other movement mechanics. It would also play completely different to what we are use to, even compared to the original trilogy days.
That isn’t entirely true. Sprint is the biggest factor in map size because it’s what allows you to travel the fastest, even in Halo 4 which lacked most of these other abilities the maps are larger. That’s talking horizontally. Vertically, the size is adjusted largely because of clamber.
Increasing the base speed would play largely the same to the original trilogy because that’s exactly what the original trilogy allowed. The simple implementation of one player speed that never takes away you ability to use your weapons, grenades or melee (the Golden Triangle Halo is based on) has many positive effects. Maps no longer need to be made with the top speed in mind, which means smaller maps and less cover in large open areas. Combine that with always being allowed to move while keeping the golden triangle in effect means that encounters are more frequents, there’s less cover on the map (because there’s no huge open areas for sprint), which allows for more open map design and that encourages more offensive play rather than constantly getting behind cover. Offense and defense are one in the same which encourages smart play much more than choosing between offensive play or defensive play. When you remove sprint, all of those changes that could be made would theoretically even allow thruster to not be as much of a get out of jail free card. Less cover forces people to use thruster more intelligently (basically, imagine thrust on Halo 3’s level Guardian). Not only does sprint hold back the gameplay as a whole, it can even hold back the other abilities.
> 2533274795123910;1191:
> > 2535471109694535;1161:
> > > 2533274809738692;1154:
> > > > 2533274795123910;1151:
> > > > > 2533274809738692;1124:
> > > > > > 2533274795123910;904:
> > > > > > > 2533274809738692;899:
> > > > > > > You know what though, I’m willing to bet that if Halo 3 had sprint the game would have played the same. The maps sizes are just fine and don’t NEED to be elongated to accompany a mechanic like sprint. That has got to be one of the worst arguements aganist sprint out there right now. The sole reason for maps to be that size nowadays is to make them feel bigger, that’s it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Bungie didn’t implement Sprint into Halo 2 due to it not providing a pacing they desired. Obviously sprint affects gameplay then. Especially since it didn’t make it into Halo 3 either.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Why does maps not need to be elognated to accommodate sprint? Why is it that, for instance crossing Haven with sprint and mobility net you about the same time as crossing Guardians from Halo 3? Or the same cases for Truth vs Midship, which was linked earlier in this thread? Can you provide something that state maps are bigger to make them feel bigger? Because I can certainly provide you with a link to where map designers for Halo 4 imply maps are larger due to default sprint.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Please do, cuz I’m not finding one.
> >
> >
> > I agree with Bunny, I thing that the maps were made so big not for sprint, but to accommodate for the bad map design that went into the arena maps, while the Warzone maps are big to accommodate for the various bosses (and reoccurring Wardens) along with the 12 v 12 gameplay.
>
>
> Am I understanding this properly?
>
> The map designers know they have bad map design and then deliberately made the maps big in an effort to “hide” the bad design? I don’t even know how you “accommodate” bad map design by increasing the map size.
Let me break it down for you, since it’s a confusing statement.
Bigger maps = More stuff
More stuff = Distractions
Distractions + Bad map designs = Bigger maps
If you actually take a second or two to look around an arena map once in a while, you’ll notice how much stuff is actually crammed into it, like boxes stacked up to make a wall to make it look appealing. They literally add as much stuff as possible to distract you while you play, but obviously no one’s going to pay any attention to them because their focus on the game’s objective or farming.
I think halo six should have sprint, without Spartan charge. And all those cool things that one guy said.
Halo is Halo rather sprint is there or not. People from the Halo 1-3 era just need to accept that 343 has control of the Halo series. I loved Halo 1-3 but I also love Halo 5 and I think 343 is doing a really good job.
While sprint isn’t necessarily a deal-breaker for me, if it still exists in the form of press button to move faster for Halo 6, it’s likely that other “modern” design sensibilities will return as well, and while I mostly enjoy playing Halo 5, I can’t see myself purchasing a Halo game that is content with further homoginizing one of my favorite video game franchises. Just my two cents, we know nothing of H6 so far so it’s just empty rhetoric I guess. I’m sure there are plenty of others that feel as I do in the larger gaming community, but don’t care enough to say anything.
> 2533274801176260;1274:
> > 2533274926527272;1263:
> > > 2533274801176260;1190:
> > > > 2533274839169051;1185:
> > > > Although H5G is still making money…thanks to the Req Packs?!?
> > > > It seems like the Halo community is just the core fans now.
> > > > A smaller but fanatic group who will be here to the end.
> > > > I honestly think there is no fix, sprint or non-sprint that brings back the glory days.
> > > > Removing sprint just feels like condemning the future to BR starts, Midship, Ascension and Lockout till the end of eternity.
> > >
> > >
> > > What does Req Packs have to do with gameplay mechanics?
> > > Don’t you think they could make money with microtransactions in a classic game all the same?
> > > Even so, how much money have they made through Reqs? A quick google search sais 1.5 Million in February. Let’s be generous and round that up to 2M by now.
> > > H5G has sold around 2.5 Million copies less than even ODST. With 60$ per copy (In the US, that is. Here in Europe, I’m paying 80€ for any new game release) that alone accounts for 150 Million Dollars less revenue than the next-best-selling Halo title, which even was a spinoff-title. The difference only gets worse when you compare it to Halo 4 or Reach. Those few bucks from Reqs are peanuts compared to that.
> >
> >
> > Halo 5 sold over five million copies. Try again.
>
>
> ODST sold over 6.3 Million copies, H5G sold around 4. No idea where you get that five million figure.
Frank has made a comment on neogaf once claiming we hit 5M in sales, not much to run on and not the most reliable source considering the past several years.
Here’s the truth: Sprint has become a part of Halo now, whether you like it or not. I personally loathe it, but 343 needs to listen to those dislike it and not sweep their complaints under the rug, like they do with everything else.
Every other Halo game had a Classic Slayer or Slayer Pro playlist with no Armor Abilities or special mechanics, just classic Halo-style gameplay. In Halo 5, I feel that amount of anti-Sprint threads and arguments would go down substantially if 343 decided to actually get on the forums and realize Halo needs a change and implement a no-Sprint playlist in Matchmaking. Currently, the only way to play without Sprint is in Custom Games. There needs to be a gamemode with no Sprint, Thruster Pack, Ground Pound, Spartan Charge, etc.
OP, I don’t believe the removal of sprint entirely will make Halo become great again. It’s a big step, but the main cause of Halo 5’s low multiplayer population and sales is the fact that 343 is pushing the “MLG eSports” too much, and most of Halo 5’s players are overly competitive, from my experience. Halo has no casual playlists, besides Infection (If you count that), I see so many campers in Infection that crawl to some god-forsaken corner of the map and only move away to get more ammo. Halo isn’t appealing to it’s casual fans, no-Sprint veterans, Elite fans, and whoever else.
“Adapt” seems to be the common comment when anti sprinters that still have the will power to join this conversation present their arguments.
Sprint has been a part of halo for 6 years now, what if its time halo evolved and became modern?
Could the pro sprint side learn to “adapt” to a new halo without the sprint mechanic?
The millions that left the franchise voiced their opinion, will you?
> 2533274808669104;1288:
> > 2533274801176260;1274:
> > > 2533274926527272;1263:
> > > > 2533274801176260;1190:
> > > > > 2533274839169051;1185:
> > > > > Although H5G is still making money…thanks to the Req Packs?!?
> > > > > It seems like the Halo community is just the core fans now.
> > > > > A smaller but fanatic group who will be here to the end.
> > > > > I honestly think there is no fix, sprint or non-sprint that brings back the glory days.
> > > > > Removing sprint just feels like condemning the future to BR starts, Midship, Ascension and Lockout till the end of eternity.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > What does Req Packs have to do with gameplay mechanics?
> > > > Don’t you think they could make money with microtransactions in a classic game all the same?
> > > > Even so, how much money have they made through Reqs? A quick google search sais 1.5 Million in February. Let’s be generous and round that up to 2M by now.
> > > > H5G has sold around 2.5 Million copies less than even ODST. With 60$ per copy (In the US, that is. Here in Europe, I’m paying 80€ for any new game release) that alone accounts for 150 Million Dollars less revenue than the next-best-selling Halo title, which even was a spinoff-title. The difference only gets worse when you compare it to Halo 4 or Reach. Those few bucks from Reqs are peanuts compared to that.
> > >
> > >
> > > Halo 5 sold over five million copies. Try again.
> >
> >
> > ODST sold over 6.3 Million copies, H5G sold around 4. No idea where you get that five million figure.
>
>
> Frank has made a comment on neogaf once claiming we hit 5M in sales, not much to run on and not the most reliable source considering the past several years.
There is no reason for him to lie about official information.
> 2533274926527272;1263:
> > 2533274801176260;1190:
> > > 2533274839169051;1185:
> > > Although H5G is still making money…thanks to the Req Packs?!?
> > > It seems like the Halo community is just the core fans now.
> > > A smaller but fanatic group who will be here to the end.
> > > I honestly think there is no fix, sprint or non-sprint that brings back the glory days.
> > > Removing sprint just feels like condemning the future to BR starts, Midship, Ascension and Lockout till the end of eternity.
> >
> >
> > What does Req Packs have to do with gameplay mechanics?
> > Don’t you think they could make money with microtransactions in a classic game all the same?
> > Even so, how much money have they made through Reqs? A quick google search sais 1.5 Million in February. Let’s be generous and round that up to 2M by now.
> > H5G has sold around 2.5 Million copies less than even ODST. With 60$ per copy (In the US, that is. Here in Europe, I’m paying 80€ for any new game release) that alone accounts for 150 Million Dollars less revenue than the next-best-selling Halo title, which even was a spinoff-title. The difference only gets worse when you compare it to Halo 4 or Reach. Those few bucks from Reqs are peanuts compared to that.
>
>
> Halo 5 sold over five million copies. Try again.
If you honestly think 343 is being truthful about Halo’s sales, I have some news for you…
> 2533274819567236;1283:
> > 2533274809738692;1273:
> > I again don’t know if anyone has responded to this, but the reason these maps seem so big is due to all the new movement mechanics. The whole point of this thread is to blame one mechanic on how the maps are and how this one plays. You and I are truly on the same page here, I’m just trying to point out that sprint isn’t the sole reason for things in this game. And I also want to point out that if you were to increase base movement speed to the current top speed, it would have the same result as sprint and the other movement mechanics. It would also play completely different to what we are use to, even compared to the original trilogy days.
>
>
> That isn’t entirely true. Sprint is the biggest factor in map size because it’s what allows you to travel the fastest, even in Halo 4 which lacked most of these other abilities the maps are larger. That’s talking horizontally. Vertically, the size is adjusted largely because of clamber.
>
> Increasing the base speed would play largely the same to the original trilogy because that’s exactly what the original trilogy allowed. The simple implementation of one player speed that never takes away you ability to use your weapons, grenades or melee (the Golden Triangle Halo is based on) has many positive effects. Maps no longer need to be made with the top speed in mind, which means smaller maps and less cover in large open areas. Combine that with always being allowed to move while keeping the golden triangle in effect means that encounters are more frequents, there’s less cover on the map (because there’s no huge open areas for sprint), which allows for more open map design and that encourages more offensive play rather than constantly getting behind cover. Offense and defense are one in the same which encourages smart play much more than choosing better offensive play or defensive play. When you remove sprint, all of those changes that could be made would theoretically even allow thruster to not be as much of a get out of jail free card. Less cover forces people to use thruster more intelligently (basically, imagine thrust on Halo 3’s level Guardian). Not only does sprint hold back the gameplay as a whole, it can even hold back the other abilities.
That’s plain wrong, if base movement speed was increased, the reason for bigger maps or longer maps would be to accommodate for the base speed because theirs no way to interrupt it. You could say since Doom had increased movement speed and it plays pretty well, (my own example, you didn’t say it whatsoever) that it proves sprint unnecessary in modern FPS but those maps are extremely huge for an FPS, like I still play it and find it hard to kill people in clan arena, team deathmatch and freeze tag. Only reason it works is because you die rather fast.
A huge factor in base speed, the speed at which you are killed. The faster the speed you are killed, the faster you should move to accommodate your low durability, but as we know, with shields Spartans could take a frag grenade’s explosion, so they can’t have the same movement speed as doom because it would be incredibly unbalance for people to run away and recover their shields while they flee. That’s why sprint is pretty good, because it works well with the durability of Spartans and prevents you from recovering your shield while fleeing or using it. There would be no way to nerf increased movement speed without killing what other hardcore halo vets call “what makes halo halo” and that would be worse than adding sprint.
I do agree with the people saying that they should add classic playlists to arena that remove all of the new abiities and let you play like the old halos, but I do not agree with removing these abilities entirely. I think they should be further tweaked to fit in Halo and more balanced to prevent the abuse of these abilities (Spartan charge).
"Everyone " huh?
I like sprint and I was so happy when it finally came to Halo.
Also, I find it absolutely hilarious that for years, the players of Halo complained and whined about howw other games had sprinting and why not Halo. Now sprint was added and you complain.
There is nothing wrong with sprint, it’s the player. A super soldier should be able to sprint and do things a normal person could. End of story.
I don’t see why people complain about sprint…
It’s useful. If you have trouble killing so done because they use sprint… Then that’s your own fault… If you die because your using sprint… That’s also your own fault.
Sprint itself has very little impact on the game
> 2533274917158807;1292:
> > 2533274926527272;1263:
> > > 2533274801176260;1190:
> > > > 2533274839169051;1185:
> > > > Although H5G is still making money…thanks to the Req Packs?!?
> > > > It seems like the Halo community is just the core fans now.
> > > > A smaller but fanatic group who will be here to the end.
> > > > I honestly think there is no fix, sprint or non-sprint that brings back the glory days.
> > > > Removing sprint just feels like condemning the future to BR starts, Midship, Ascension and Lockout till the end of eternity.
> > >
> > >
> > > What does Req Packs have to do with gameplay mechanics?
> > > Don’t you think they could make money with microtransactions in a classic game all the same?
> > > Even so, how much money have they made through Reqs? A quick google search sais 1.5 Million in February. Let’s be generous and round that up to 2M by now.
> > > H5G has sold around 2.5 Million copies less than even ODST. With 60$ per copy (In the US, that is. Here in Europe, I’m paying 80€ for any new game release) that alone accounts for 150 Million Dollars less revenue than the next-best-selling Halo title, which even was a spinoff-title. The difference only gets worse when you compare it to Halo 4 or Reach. Those few bucks from Reqs are peanuts compared to that.
> >
> >
> > Halo 5 sold over five million copies. Try again.
>
>
> If you honestly think 343 is being truthful about Halo’s sales, I have some news for you…
I used to have several links confirming this statement, but I lost them. I did read several places where they show they total sales, but they are not accurate because they don’t count digital sales, and that is how a lot of people buy games now.
OP, it’s 2016. In 2016, players expect devs to not care about what’s good for the game.
> 2535471109694535;1296:
> > 2533274917158807;1292:
> > > 2533274926527272;1263:
> > > > 2533274801176260;1190:
> > > > > 2533274839169051;1185:
> > > > > Although H5G is still making money…thanks to the Req Packs?!?
> > > > > It seems like the Halo community is just the core fans now.
> > > > > A smaller but fanatic group who will be here to the end.
> > > > > I honestly think there is no fix, sprint or non-sprint that brings back the glory days.
> > > > > Removing sprint just feels like condemning the future to BR starts, Midship, Ascension and Lockout till the end of eternity.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > What does Req Packs have to do with gameplay mechanics?
> > > > Don’t you think they could make money with microtransactions in a classic game all the same?
> > > > Even so, how much money have they made through Reqs? A quick google search sais 1.5 Million in February. Let’s be generous and round that up to 2M by now.
> > > > H5G has sold around 2.5 Million copies less than even ODST. With 60$ per copy (In the US, that is. Here in Europe, I’m paying 80€ for any new game release) that alone accounts for 150 Million Dollars less revenue than the next-best-selling Halo title, which even was a spinoff-title. The difference only gets worse when you compare it to Halo 4 or Reach. Those few bucks from Reqs are peanuts compared to that.
> > >
> > >
> > > Halo 5 sold over five million copies. Try again.
> >
> >
> > If you honestly think 343 is being truthful about Halo’s sales, I have some news for you…
>
>
> I used to have several links confirming this statement, but I lost them. I did read several places where they show they total sales, but they are not accurate because they don’t count digital sales, and that is how a lot of people buy games now.
What do you mean “confirming”? 343 has proven to be the most untrustworthy and corrupt game development company, IMO. Even an ‘official’ statement from Microsoft I’d take with a grain of salt. 343 and MS want people to believe Halo 5 is still doing great, buy why is there no multiplayer population counter to show off Halo’s high player count, and why is Halo 6 rumored to come to the PC if Halo’s sales are so fantastic?
> 2535418386686530;1280:
> I actually like sprint, especially in Warzone. It makes a everything much MUCH faster, improved gameplay and a more in-depth experience. I don’t know why everyone hates sprint so much considering if you to walk in an actual firefight, you will be a very easy target and die very often. Sprint gives the player a better way to improve their gameplay and get to better and more strategic ways to take down enemies. In Halo: REACH, I hated how you had to get sprint as an armor ability and be limited to all the others even though RUNNING is a trait everyone should have. Halo 5 is one of the best feeling and best innovated Halo games I have ever played, and I and truly hope Halo 6 most definitely has sprint.
Hey, I have an idea. READ THE THREAD before you post redundant, ignorant arguments that have been addressed hundreds of times. It does not make things faster. It makes maps larger (they are scaled for sprint), which means your ideal travel time is functionally identical and combat is SLOWER relative to the map size (because you can’t sprint and shoot). It’s incredible that you mention Warzone, because those maps are the most obviously stretched to a ridiculous size for sprint, speed boost REQs, armor mods, and vehicles. Of course you want to sprint in Warzone. IT WAS DESIGNED WITH SPRINT IN MIND. If sprint were not in the game, those maps would be designed with whatever the base movement was in mind and 343 might need to actually be a bit creative in how they move you around the map. Add some teleporters. More man canons in creative places. Smaller maps overall. Warzone might actually have interesting map flow instead of 1 or 2 major paths that everyone is sprinting/driving through and 3 focal points for the vast majority of the action (the bases).
Gameplay improvement is subjective, but the arguments being made against sprint make the case that sprint does not improve HALO, even if it works well in completely different FPSs. Which is the point. Sprint does not add depth to Halo. It does not add “better and more strategic ways to to take down enemies.” It removes them by simplifying your viable options. You can either move optimally or engage in combat; never both. And with the larger maps, you NEED to move optimally in many situations or you will be in an utterly worthless position. That is not a tactical decision. That is the only viable decision. It’s the same reason clamber does not add depth. It reduces your options, because maps are designed around the mechanic. Many jumps require clamber by design, which in turn requires you to face in the exact direction you want to jump and lower your weapon for the “immersive” animation. This undermines a core element of Halo and the Arena shooters that inspired it. These mechanics limit your mobility. They don’t improve it. That’s a fact.
“RUNNING is a trait everyone should have.”
Spartans are running by default. “Realism” has no relevance to good game design. There is no reason why would couldn’t have relatively fast movement without a sprint mechanic. Pick one. The fact that you inherently associate “sprint” with “go fast” indicates how little you’ve actually thought about the topic. Quake 3 plays far quicker and has much faster movement than Halo 5. It has no sprint mechanic. At no point do stupid animations require you to lower your weapon. Quake 3 has a vastly higher skill gap than Halo 5 does. Any other vacuous points to make?
Sprint is not bad for Halo. You are supposed to be a badass super solider spartan with -Yoink- armor, 500 years in the future. Sprinting is just moving your legs faster. Why wouldn’t it be an ability? Armor Abilities are a different story though. I think they are fine. But they could be limited to custom games or certain playlists in matchmaking.