The sprint discussion thread

People who dislike sprint give definitive statements about why it should not be in Halo.
“Sprint is bad, because…”

People who defend sprint only give vague disagreements.
“You can’t say that for sure”
“That doesn’t necessarily mean…”

If you think sprint SHOULD be in Halo, please explain why. Other than “I like it”
and please be specific. Use evidence of why it is good for the game.

Here’s my evidence of why it is NOT.
Maps are stretched out to accommodate sprint. (Yes, look at Truth opposed to Midship)
Sprint/Abilities do not work on classic Halo maps. (Lockout’s flow would be shattered. You could jump from BR3 to Snipe3 without touching the ground.)
You put your weapon down to run into battle (This isn’t fast gameplay, you actually slow gameplay down by stopping because you have to put your gun back up.)
Multiple movement speeds creates randomized player/team movement. (Uncertainty IS random)
Risk v.s. Reward doesn’t make sense for sprint. (You are removing the ability to shoot / making a bad play, that could turn out good by escaping / obtaining power items.)
Slide/Spartan Charge/Thrust/Stabilize allow you to make inconceivable jumps you should not be allowed to make.
A “Modern game” does not NEED sprint. Why would it? (To be like other games? Halo should be setting itself apart from other titles, not trying to blend in.)

Now ask yourself, what makes sprint a GOOD mechanic? How does it improve gameplay?
Would you abandon the franchise if sprint was removed?

Seriously, explain why sprint is good somebody?

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> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Think I’d rather play a “new” classic game over the 360 versions that have no support to them and pretty much no population to them (besides reach but don’t like reach) and a still broken mcc that too has no support. How many people do you think want to play/tolerate barren games that have no support to them? Not to mention those games aren’t new and we’ve played them many times over, hence why people want a new classic game.
> > > > >
> > > > > What was successful nine years ago wouldn’t necessarily be as successful today.
> > > >
> > > > And all people ask is to test that hypothesis. Go ahead and release a proper sequel to Halo 3. Redefine and rebalance the sandbox. Try to improve on what the complains in Halo 3 were, like a higher base movement speed and FoV. I honestly doubt it would sell worse than Halo 5 at this point so there isn’t much to lose I think.
> >
> > It’s also unfair to gauge or draw any conclusions to the success of classic halo game play within a collection that 343 severely failed to care for within the first 4 months of its life span.
>
> I have not made any conclusions. I have shown that 343i tried giving a VERY classic Halo experience.
>
> As for misclaiming the game only got 4 months of support, while it certainly didn’t get service past a year, many are making the parallel that Sprint = low populated Halos. Obviously, there’s a lot more to it than “Sprint ruined Halo.”
>
> HCS ran H2A tournaments. H2A was/is there for custom games of an updated Halo on XB1 coding. That the overall Halo community isn’t playing the games they loved still, while so many other “old” games are still being played, does not equate to Sprint being THE factor. That the competitive crowd didn’t support H2A more, that’s up to them.

Not faulting you at all for a claim you never made.

Did I ever say that that 343 gave MCC only 4 months of support? No, I’m highlighting their incompetence in regards to fixing the matchmaking issues within the collection for the first 4 months until the patch around March 4. Nothing else matters at that point because it was the sole reason for the game’s failure in terms of overall player retention and faith in 343.

I agree about how sprint isn’t the only factor in regards to the decline of halo, considering how Bungie/343 reinevented the wheel every time to redefine halo after Halo 3. That isn’t to say it doesn’t have negative impacts on the overall game design to serve a purpose that can be replicated by a faster BMS.

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> > > > Why did they change the gameplay when Halo was at it’s highest population with Halo 3?
> > > > We don’t want change.
> > > > The reason people don’t play old Halo’s is because their successors came out. If Halo 5 stuck to the original formula it would probably have a much healthy population.
> > >
> > > H3’s mechanics were not very well received by, at least some of the very best, in competitive/MLG Halo. As such, Halo3 wasn’t as popular as you think it was
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > 2603643534597848;119:
> > > > Please understand, Halo3, as popular as it was, was not a standalone juggernaut once CoD4 released. CoD rivaled Halo on the Xbox as an individual platform and released multiplatform.
> > > > CoD’s success is its own and does not diminish Halo’s.
> > > > http://majornelson.com/2007/11/17/live-activity-for-week-of-11-12/Halo3, COD4, GoW
> > > > http://majornelson.com/2008/01/22/live-activity-for-week-of-1-14/COD4, Halo3, GH3
> > > > http://majornelson.com/2008/02/13/live-activity-for-week-of-2-4/COD4, Halo3, GH3
> > > > http://majornelson.com/2008/02/19/live-activity-for-week-of-2-11/COD4, Halo3, GH3
> > > > http://majornelson.com/2008/02/26/live-activity-for-week-of-2-18/COD4, Halo3, GH3
> > > > http://majornelson.com/2008/04/23/live-activity-for-week-of-4-14/COD4, Halo3, GoW
> > > > http://majornelson.com/2008/05/06/live-activity-for-week-of-4-28-gta-is-1/
> > >
> > >
> > >

> > >
> > > Though, H3 was still popular.
> > >
> > > If Reach & Sprint were so bad (and Armour Lock, shivers) to Halo, Halo3 could’ve quickly repopulated in the same manner that CoD can have BOIII ahead of Infinite Warfare in the top 5 XBL played.
> > >
> > > Battlefield isn’t #1 played right now because it’s WWII themed specifically, and it sure isn’t using classic loadout or sandbox settings beyond archetype titles (you don’t know classic BF gameplay if you’re not jumping into aerial prone position from a sprint to counter-snipe).
> > > And I really hope you don’t think BF became popular with Bad Company.
> > >
> > > If there are things are detrimental to Halo’s population, it’s far from Sprint being the issue for the top 1-10%.
> >
> > As soon as they added Sprint the population decreased. 343 have never given no sprint Halo a chance.
>
> You could say the same about Bloom, all other armor abilities, Invasion, Loadouts, DMR, and a bunch of other stuff added in Reach. To be honest, I find it quite hilarious that someone genuinely believes sprint is the thing that makes a difference between popular and unpopular Halo. The decrease in popularity is most likely a cause of many things—some of which are internal, and some of which are external—occurring over the years, some of which would trace back to the time before the release of Halo 3. It’s highly likely that sprint was one of those things, but it is extremely unlikely that it had a significant effect by itself.

I think you’ll find that Bloom, most AA’s, Invasion and Loadouts have been removed…

The decrease in popularity and population is still present… you do the maths and tell me that sprint isn’t the main culprit for the franchise’s decline…

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> > > > > Why did they change the gameplay when Halo was at it’s highest population with Halo 3?
> > > > > We don’t want change.
> > > > > The reason people don’t play old Halo’s is because their successors came out. If Halo 5 stuck to the original formula it would probably have a much healthy population.
> > > >
> > > > H3’s mechanics were not very well received by, at least some of the very best, in competitive/MLG Halo. As such, Halo3 wasn’t as popular as you think it was
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > 2603643534597848;119:
> > > > > Please understand, Halo3, as popular as it was, was not a standalone juggernaut once CoD4 released. CoD rivaled Halo on the Xbox as an individual platform and released multiplatform.
> > > > > CoD’s success is its own and does not diminish Halo’s.
> > > > > http://majornelson.com/2007/11/17/live-activity-for-week-of-11-12/Halo3, COD4, GoW
> > > > > http://majornelson.com/2008/01/22/live-activity-for-week-of-1-14/COD4, Halo3, GH3
> > > > > http://majornelson.com/2008/02/13/live-activity-for-week-of-2-4/COD4, Halo3, GH3
> > > > > http://majornelson.com/2008/02/19/live-activity-for-week-of-2-11/COD4, Halo3, GH3
> > > > > http://majornelson.com/2008/02/26/live-activity-for-week-of-2-18/COD4, Halo3, GH3
> > > > > http://majornelson.com/2008/04/23/live-activity-for-week-of-4-14/COD4, Halo3, GoW
> > > > > http://majornelson.com/2008/05/06/live-activity-for-week-of-4-28-gta-is-1/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >

> > > >
> > > > Though, H3 was still popular.
> > > >
> > > > If Reach & Sprint were so bad (and Armour Lock, shivers) to Halo, Halo3 could’ve quickly repopulated in the same manner that CoD can have BOIII ahead of Infinite Warfare in the top 5 XBL played.
> > > >
> > > > Battlefield isn’t #1 played right now because it’s WWII themed specifically, and it sure isn’t using classic loadout or sandbox settings beyond archetype titles (you don’t know classic BF gameplay if you’re not jumping into aerial prone position from a sprint to counter-snipe).
> > > > And I really hope you don’t think BF became popular with Bad Company.
> > > >
> > > > If there are things are detrimental to Halo’s population, it’s far from Sprint being the issue for the top 1-10%.
> > >
> > > As soon as they added Sprint the population decreased. 343 have never given no sprint Halo a chance.
> >
> > You could say the same about Bloom, all other armor abilities, Invasion, Loadouts, DMR, and a bunch of other stuff added in Reach. To be honest, I find it quite hilarious that someone genuinely believes sprint is the thing that makes a difference between popular and unpopular Halo. The decrease in popularity is most likely a cause of many things—some of which are internal, and some of which are external—occurring over the years, some of which would trace back to the time before the release of Halo 3. It’s highly likely that sprint was one of those things, but it is extremely unlikely that it had a significant effect by itself.
>
> I think you’ll find that Bloom, most AA’s, Invasion and Loadouts have been removed…
>
> The decrease in popularity and population is still present… you do the maths and tell me that sprint isn’t the main culprit for the franchise’s decline…

Your assumption completely ignores the horrific playlist management, weapon/Spartan ability balancing, and the poor receptions regarding campaign and the broken nature of theater mode. There are still many factors contributing to halo 5’s decline besides just sprint, and this is coming from an anti-sprint player myself.

> 2533274812413921;12924:
> People who dislike sprint give definitive statements about why it should not be in Halo.
> “Sprint is bad, because…”
>
> People who defend sprint only give vague disagreements.
> “You can’t say that for sure”
> “That doesn’t necessarily mean…”
>
> If you think sprint SHOULD be in Halo, please explain why. Other than “I like it”
> and please be specific. Use evidence of why it is good for the game.
>
> Here’s my evidence of why it is NOT.
> Maps are stretched out to accommodate sprint. (Yes, look at Truth opposed to Midship)
> Sprint/Abilities do not work on classic Halo maps. (Lockout’s flow would be shattered. You could jump from BR3 to Snipe3 without touching the ground.)
> You put your weapon down to run into battle (This isn’t fast gameplay, you actually slow gameplay down by stopping because you have to put your gun back up.)
> Multiple movement speeds creates randomized player/team movement. (Uncertainty IS random)
> Risk v.s. Reward doesn’t make sense for sprint. (You are removing the ability to shoot / making a bad play, that could turn out good by escaping / obtaining power items.)
> Slide/Spartan Charge/Thrust/Stabilize allow you to make inconceivable jumps you should not be allowed to make.
> A “Modern game” does not NEED sprint. Why would it? (To be like other games? Halo should be setting itself apart from other titles, not trying to blend in.)
>
> Now ask yourself, what makes sprint a GOOD mechanic? How does it improve gameplay?
> Would you abandon the franchise if sprint was removed?
>
> Seriously, explain why sprint is good somebody?

you spend a lot of time presenting evidence that boils down to opinion. How is that any better than simply saying “I dont like sprint”?

all of this, on both sides, has been laid out in detail, like, years ago.

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> yeah, uh, removing sprint will only make the sprint haters happy for a minute and shortly after they redirect the hate towards something else that dosen’t fit in the Halo 2/3 mold.
> the other side is that a new Halo without sprint will not draw or maintain a healthy population.
> people talk about other successful games that are sprintless but the thing is that those games are abnormalities and are very different mechanically from how Halo plays.

So are halo 4 and 5 they are both different to how halo plays. Halo 2 and 3 are the bestv2 online games without sprint waaaay better than overwatch, and I love overwatch.

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> > People who dislike sprint give definitive statements about why it should not be in Halo.
> > “Sprint is bad, because…”
> >
> > People who defend sprint only give vague disagreements.
> > “You can’t say that for sure”
> > “That doesn’t necessarily mean…”
> >
> > If you think sprint SHOULD be in Halo, please explain why. Other than “I like it”
> > and please be specific. Use evidence of why it is good for the game.
> >
> > Here’s my evidence of why it is NOT.
> > Maps are stretched out to accommodate sprint. (Yes, look at Truth opposed to Midship)
> > Sprint/Abilities do not work on classic Halo maps. (Lockout’s flow would be shattered. You could jump from BR3 to Snipe3 without touching the ground.)
> > You put your weapon down to run into battle (This isn’t fast gameplay, you actually slow gameplay down by stopping because you have to put your gun back up.)
> > Multiple movement speeds creates randomized player/team movement. (Uncertainty IS random)
> > Risk v.s. Reward doesn’t make sense for sprint. (You are removing the ability to shoot / making a bad play, that could turn out good by escaping / obtaining power items.)
> > Slide/Spartan Charge/Thrust/Stabilize allow you to make inconceivable jumps you should not be allowed to make.
> > A “Modern game” does not NEED sprint. Why would it? (To be like other games? Halo should be setting itself apart from other titles, not trying to blend in.)
> >
> > Now ask yourself, what makes sprint a GOOD mechanic? How does it improve gameplay?
> > Would you abandon the franchise if sprint was removed?
> >
> > Seriously, explain why sprint is good somebody?
>
> you spend a lot of time presenting evidence that boils down to opinion. How is that any better than simply saying “I dont like sprint”?
>
> all of this, on both sides, has been laid out in detail, like, years ago.

What.
Nothing I said is opinionated…
All the points I just made, how is that just my opinion? It’s logic, not opinion.
You did exactly what I was just referring to btw, you try to diminish my logic without actually presenting your own.
In any argument, there is a right and wrong, based on logical evidence.
Unless you can counter my logic, and disprove me, I’m right. That’s how arguments works.

Tell me why sprint is good for the game.
If your last statement is vaguely: “That’s just your opinion.” You have lost the argument.

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> > > People who dislike sprint give definitive statements about why it should not be in Halo.
> > > “Sprint is bad, because…”
> > >
> > > People who defend sprint only give vague disagreements.
> > > “You can’t say that for sure”
> > > “That doesn’t necessarily mean…”
> > >
> > > If you think sprint SHOULD be in Halo, please explain why. Other than “I like it”
> > > and please be specific. Use evidence of why it is good for the game.
> > >
> > > Here’s my evidence of why it is NOT.
> > > Maps are stretched out to accommodate sprint. (Yes, look at Truth opposed to Midship)
> > > Sprint/Abilities do not work on classic Halo maps. (Lockout’s flow would be shattered. You could jump from BR3 to Snipe3 without touching the ground.)
> > > You put your weapon down to run into battle (This isn’t fast gameplay, you actually slow gameplay down by stopping because you have to put your gun back up.)
> > > Multiple movement speeds creates randomized player/team movement. (Uncertainty IS random)
> > > Risk v.s. Reward doesn’t make sense for sprint. (You are removing the ability to shoot / making a bad play, that could turn out good by escaping / obtaining power items.)
> > > Slide/Spartan Charge/Thrust/Stabilize allow you to make inconceivable jumps you should not be allowed to make.
> > > A “Modern game” does not NEED sprint. Why would it? (To be like other games? Halo should be setting itself apart from other titles, not trying to blend in.)
> > >
> > > Now ask yourself, what makes sprint a GOOD mechanic? How does it improve gameplay?
> > > Would you abandon the franchise if sprint was removed?
> > >
> > > Seriously, explain why sprint is good somebody?
> >
> > you spend a lot of time presenting evidence that boils down to opinion. How is that any better than simply saying “I dont like sprint”?
> >
> > all of this, on both sides, has been laid out in detail, like, years ago.
>
> What.
> Nothing I said is opinionated…
> All the points I just made, how is that just my opinion? It’s logic, not opinion.
> You did exactly what I was just referring to btw, you try to diminish my logic without actually presenting your own.
> In any argument, there is a right and wrong, based on logical evidence.
> Unless you can counter my logic, and disprove me, I’m right. That’s how arguments works.
>
> Tell me why sprint is good for the game.
> If your last statement is vaguely: “That’s just your opinion.” You have lost the argument.

Sprint is good because it allows the player to exercise the “flight” response when under pressure–even if it’s the illusion of it. So when the adrenaline spikes and fighting has been eliminated as a course of action, turning tail and retreating is the only other recourse (I guess you can “surrender” too as a tertiary option). So you see, psychologically speaking, implementing sprint translates the player’s natural, healthy reaction response to his/her digital avatar. I’m the kind of person that has to sit close to the exit and skirt the fringe of a crowd. Running is definitely a valid response to anxiety and dangers…even in a simulation. This is of course an opinion, but I think it is a coherent and compelling argument for the controversial gameplay mechanic we call “sprint”.

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> > 2533274812413921;12930:
> > > 2533274855279867;12928:
> > > > 2533274812413921;12924:
> > > > People who dislike sprint give definitive statements about why it should not be in Halo.
> > > > “Sprint is bad, because…”
> > > >
> > > > People who defend sprint only give vague disagreements.
> > > > “You can’t say that for sure”
> > > > “That doesn’t necessarily mean…”
> > > >
> > > > If you think sprint SHOULD be in Halo, please explain why. Other than “I like it”
> > > > and please be specific. Use evidence of why it is good for the game.
> > > >
> > > > Here’s my evidence of why it is NOT.
> > > > Maps are stretched out to accommodate sprint. (Yes, look at Truth opposed to Midship)
> > > > Sprint/Abilities do not work on classic Halo maps. (Lockout’s flow would be shattered. You could jump from BR3 to Snipe3 without touching the ground.)
> > > > You put your weapon down to run into battle (This isn’t fast gameplay, you actually slow gameplay down by stopping because you have to put your gun back up.)
> > > > Multiple movement speeds creates randomized player/team movement. (Uncertainty IS random)
> > > > Risk v.s. Reward doesn’t make sense for sprint. (You are removing the ability to shoot / making a bad play, that could turn out good by escaping / obtaining power items.)
> > > > Slide/Spartan Charge/Thrust/Stabilize allow you to make inconceivable jumps you should not be allowed to make.
> > > > A “Modern game” does not NEED sprint. Why would it? (To be like other games? Halo should be setting itself apart from other titles, not trying to blend in.)
> > > >
> > > > Now ask yourself, what makes sprint a GOOD mechanic? How does it improve gameplay?
> > > > Would you abandon the franchise if sprint was removed?
> > > >
> > > > Seriously, explain why sprint is good somebody?
> > >
> > > you spend a lot of time presenting evidence that boils down to opinion. How is that any better than simply saying “I dont like sprint”?
> > >
> > > all of this, on both sides, has been laid out in detail, like, years ago.
> >
> > What.
> > Nothing I said is opinionated…
> > All the points I just made, how is that just my opinion? It’s logic, not opinion.
> > You did exactly what I was just referring to btw, you try to diminish my logic without actually presenting your own.
> > In any argument, there is a right and wrong, based on logical evidence.
> > Unless you can counter my logic, and disprove me, I’m right. That’s how arguments works.
> >
> > Tell me why sprint is good for the game.
> > If your last statement is vaguely: “That’s just your opinion.” You have lost the argument.
>
> Sprint is good because it allows the player to exercise the “flight” response when under pressure–even if it’s the illusion of it. So when the adrenaline spikes and fighting has been eliminated as a course of action, turning tail and retreating is the only other recourse (I guess you can “surrender” too as a tertiary option). So you see, psychologically speaking, implementing sprint translates the player’s natural, healthy reaction response to his/her digital avatar. I’m the kind of person that has to sit close to the exit and skirt the fringe of a crowd. Running is definitely a valid response to anxiety and dangers…even in a simulation. This is of course an opinion, but I think it is a coherent and compelling argument for the controversial gameplay mechanic we call “sprint”.

So what is it about the sprint mechanic that activates the flight response which can’t be replicated among an equally fast BMS? You theoretically should be achieving the same level of intensity regardless, especially given that your opponent is still just as capable in chasing you, which can potentially add to the experience.

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> > > 2533274855279867;12928:
> > > > 2533274812413921;12924:
> > > > People who dislike sprint give definitive statements about why it should not be in Halo.
> > > > “Sprint is bad, because…”
> > > >
> > > > People who defend sprint only give vague disagreements.
> > > > “You can’t say that for sure”
> > > > “That doesn’t necessarily mean…”
> > > >
> > > > If you think sprint SHOULD be in Halo, please explain why. Other than “I like it”
> > > > and please be specific. Use evidence of why it is good for the game.
> > > >
> > > > Here’s my evidence of why it is NOT.
> > > > Maps are stretched out to accommodate sprint. (Yes, look at Truth opposed to Midship)
> > > > Sprint/Abilities do not work on classic Halo maps. (Lockout’s flow would be shattered. You could jump from BR3 to Snipe3 without touching the ground.)
> > > > You put your weapon down to run into battle (This isn’t fast gameplay, you actually slow gameplay down by stopping because you have to put your gun back up.)
> > > > Multiple movement speeds creates randomized player/team movement. (Uncertainty IS random)
> > > > Risk v.s. Reward doesn’t make sense for sprint. (You are removing the ability to shoot / making a bad play, that could turn out good by escaping / obtaining power items.)
> > > > Slide/Spartan Charge/Thrust/Stabilize allow you to make inconceivable jumps you should not be allowed to make.
> > > > A “Modern game” does not NEED sprint. Why would it? (To be like other games? Halo should be setting itself apart from other titles, not trying to blend in.)
> > > >
> > > > Now ask yourself, what makes sprint a GOOD mechanic? How does it improve gameplay?
> > > > Would you abandon the franchise if sprint was removed?
> > > >
> > > > Seriously, explain why sprint is good somebody?
> > >
> > > you spend a lot of time presenting evidence that boils down to opinion. How is that any better than simply saying “I dont like sprint”?
> > >
> > > all of this, on both sides, has been laid out in detail, like, years ago.
> >
> > What.
> > Nothing I said is opinionated…
> > All the points I just made, how is that just my opinion? It’s logic, not opinion.
> > You did exactly what I was just referring to btw, you try to diminish my logic without actually presenting your own.
> > In any argument, there is a right and wrong, based on logical evidence.
> > Unless you can counter my logic, and disprove me, I’m right. That’s how arguments works.
> >
> > Tell me why sprint is good for the game.
> > If your last statement is vaguely: “That’s just your opinion.” You have lost the argument.
>
> Sprint is good because it allows the player to exercise the “flight” response when under pressure–even if it’s the illusion of it. So when the adrenaline spikes and fighting has been eliminated as a course of action, turning tail and retreating is the only other recourse (I guess you can “surrender” too as a tertiary option). So you see, psychologically speaking, implementing sprint translates the player’s natural, healthy reaction response to his/her digital avatar. I’m the kind of person that has to sit close to the exit and skirt the fringe of a crowd. Running is definitely a valid response to anxiety and dangers…even in a simulation. This is of course an opinion, but I think it is a coherent and compelling argument for the controversial gameplay mechanic we call “sprint”.

That’s exactly what fans of the older halos don’t like about sprint. It rewards the flight response over the fight reponse. It rewards a defensive style of play and allows more room for error in movement, aim, and positioning. High level CE doubles is like a game of chess. You have to think two moves ahead of your opponent because if you don’t properly predict where your opponent is and you make the wrong move you are going to get annihilated. If you get caught in a bad spot you can’t run away. You are forced to battle your way out and rely on your strafe and your shot to get you out of that spot. You are punished for your bad positioning and rewarded for placing good shots under pressure. Likewise, you are rewarded heavily for having good positioning because opponents who are caught in a bad spot can’t run away. Sprint is first and foremost a defensive tactic (since you can’t even shoot while doing it) and shrinks the skill gap between good players and great players.

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> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Think I’d rather play a “new” classic game over the 360 versions that have no support to them and pretty much no population to them (besides reach but don’t like reach) and a still broken mcc that too has no support. How many people do you think want to play/tolerate barren games that have no support to them? Not to mention those games aren’t new and we’ve played them many times over, hence why people want a new classic game.
> > > >
> > > > What was successful nine years ago wouldn’t necessarily be as successful today.
> > >
> > > And all people ask is to test that hypothesis. Go ahead and release a proper sequel to Halo 3. Redefine and rebalance the sandbox. Try to improve on what the complains in Halo 3 were, like a higher base movement speed and FoV. I honestly doubt it would sell worse than Halo 5 at this point so there isn’t much to lose I think.
> >
> > That’s a bit unfair to say it’s an untested hypothesis.
> >
> >
> > > 2533274866906624;12915:
> > > We have not had a classic style Halo since 2007, which was the most successful Halo ever.
> >
> > See above.
>
> It’s also unfair to gauge or draw any conclusions to the success of classic halo game play within a collection that 343 severely failed to care for within the first 4 months of its life span.

I said a proper sequel, not a remaster. And no it is an untested hypothesis. Simply because H2A was not a sequel. Especially with the limited amount of maps, buggy menu and the fact that the game was pretty much unplayable for the first few months.

But it’s too late now anyway. People’s trust for 343 has been shattered already. Pre-Orders aand first week sales wil most likely be low regardless of what they do now.

> 2533274867519109;12931:
> > 2533274812413921;12930:
> > > 2533274855279867;12928:
> > > > 2533274812413921;12924:
> > > > People who dislike sprint give definitive statements about why it should not be in Halo.
> > > > “Sprint is bad, because…”
> > > >
> > > > People who defend sprint only give vague disagreements.
> > > > “You can’t say that for sure”
> > > > “That doesn’t necessarily mean…”
> > > >
> > > > If you think sprint SHOULD be in Halo, please explain why. Other than “I like it”
> > > > and please be specific. Use evidence of why it is good for the game.
> > > >
> > > > Here’s my evidence of why it is NOT.
> > > > Maps are stretched out to accommodate sprint. (Yes, look at Truth opposed to Midship)
> > > > Sprint/Abilities do not work on classic Halo maps. (Lockout’s flow would be shattered. You could jump from BR3 to Snipe3 without touching the ground.)
> > > > You put your weapon down to run into battle (This isn’t fast gameplay, you actually slow gameplay down by stopping because you have to put your gun back up.)
> > > > Multiple movement speeds creates randomized player/team movement. (Uncertainty IS random)
> > > > Risk v.s. Reward doesn’t make sense for sprint. (You are removing the ability to shoot / making a bad play, that could turn out good by escaping / obtaining power items.)
> > > > Slide/Spartan Charge/Thrust/Stabilize allow you to make inconceivable jumps you should not be allowed to make.
> > > > A “Modern game” does not NEED sprint. Why would it? (To be like other games? Halo should be setting itself apart from other titles, not trying to blend in.)
> > > >
> > > > Now ask yourself, what makes sprint a GOOD mechanic? How does it improve gameplay?
> > > > Would you abandon the franchise if sprint was removed?
> > > >
> > > > Seriously, explain why sprint is good somebody?
> > >
> > > you spend a lot of time presenting evidence that boils down to opinion. How is that any better than simply saying “I dont like sprint”?
> > >
> > > all of this, on both sides, has been laid out in detail, like, years ago.
> >
> > What.
> > Nothing I said is opinionated…
> > All the points I just made, how is that just my opinion? It’s logic, not opinion.
> > You did exactly what I was just referring to btw, you try to diminish my logic without actually presenting your own.
> > In any argument, there is a right and wrong, based on logical evidence.
> > Unless you can counter my logic, and disprove me, I’m right. That’s how arguments works.
> >
> > Tell me why sprint is good for the game.
> > If your last statement is vaguely: “That’s just your opinion.” You have lost the argument.
>
> Sprint is good because it allows the player to exercise the “flight” response when under pressure–even if it’s the illusion of it. So when the adrenaline spikes and fighting has been eliminated as a course of action, turning tail and retreating is the only other recourse (I guess you can “surrender” too as a tertiary option). So you see, psychologically speaking, implementing sprint translates the player’s natural, healthy reaction response to his/her digital avatar. I’m the kind of person that has to sit close to the exit and skirt the fringe of a crowd. Running is definitely a valid response to anxiety and dangers…even in a simulation. This is of course an opinion, but I think it is a coherent and compelling argument for the controversial gameplay mechanic we call “sprint”.

It’s not emulating real life, it’s a game with rules those rules have been shattered and the game sucks now.

> 2533274867519109;12931:
> > 2533274812413921;12930:
> > > 2533274855279867;12928:
> > > > 2533274812413921;12924:
> > > > People who dislike sprint give definitive statements about why it should not be in Halo.
> > > > “Sprint is bad, because…”
> > > >
> > > > People who defend sprint only give vague disagreements.
> > > > “You can’t say that for sure”
> > > > “That doesn’t necessarily mean…”
> > > >
> > > > If you think sprint SHOULD be in Halo, please explain why. Other than “I like it”
> > > > and please be specific. Use evidence of why it is good for the game.
> > > >
> > > > Here’s my evidence of why it is NOT.
> > > > Maps are stretched out to accommodate sprint. (Yes, look at Truth opposed to Midship)
> > > > Sprint/Abilities do not work on classic Halo maps. (Lockout’s flow would be shattered. You could jump from BR3 to Snipe3 without touching the ground.)
> > > > You put your weapon down to run into battle (This isn’t fast gameplay, you actually slow gameplay down by stopping because you have to put your gun back up.)
> > > > Multiple movement speeds creates randomized player/team movement. (Uncertainty IS random)
> > > > Risk v.s. Reward doesn’t make sense for sprint. (You are removing the ability to shoot / making a bad play, that could turn out good by escaping / obtaining power items.)
> > > > Slide/Spartan Charge/Thrust/Stabilize allow you to make inconceivable jumps you should not be allowed to make.
> > > > A “Modern game” does not NEED sprint. Why would it? (To be like other games? Halo should be setting itself apart from other titles, not trying to blend in.)
> > > >
> > > > Now ask yourself, what makes sprint a GOOD mechanic? How does it improve gameplay?
> > > > Would you abandon the franchise if sprint was removed?
> > > >
> > > > Seriously, explain why sprint is good somebody?
> > >
> > > you spend a lot of time presenting evidence that boils down to opinion. How is that any better than simply saying “I dont like sprint”?
> > >
> > > all of this, on both sides, has been laid out in detail, like, years ago.
> >
> > What.
> > Nothing I said is opinionated…
> > All the points I just made, how is that just my opinion? It’s logic, not opinion.
> > You did exactly what I was just referring to btw, you try to diminish my logic without actually presenting your own.
> > In any argument, there is a right and wrong, based on logical evidence.
> > Unless you can counter my logic, and disprove me, I’m right. That’s how arguments works.
> >
> > Tell me why sprint is good for the game.
> > If your last statement is vaguely: “That’s just your opinion.” You have lost the argument.
>
> Sprint is good because it allows the player to exercise the “flight” response when under pressure–even if it’s the illusion of it. So when the adrenaline spikes and fighting has been eliminated as a course of action, turning tail and retreating is the only other recourse (I guess you can “surrender” too as a tertiary option). So you see, psychologically speaking, implementing sprint translates the player’s natural, healthy reaction response to his/her digital avatar. I’m the kind of person that has to sit close to the exit and skirt the fringe of a crowd. Running is definitely a valid response to anxiety and dangers…even in a simulation. This is of course an opinion, but I think it is a coherent and compelling argument for the controversial gameplay mechanic we call “sprint”.

As others have pointed out, that is part of the problem.

It’s a proactive vs reactive style of play. A tactical vs a twitch style. A tug of war vs a cat and mouse style. Sprint isn’t the only cause of this but it is definitely a factor, it’s a focal point that shows the difference in the style of gameplay between Classic Halo and 343i’s Halo.

Sprint doesn’t add anything to the original gameplay, it outright changes it to a different sub-genre of MP FPS games.

> 2603643534597848;12921:
> > 2533274968707582;12920:
> > > 2603643534597848;12919:
> > > > 2533274891802271;12918:
> > > > > 2533274825830455;12916:
> > > > > > 2533274866906624;12915:
> > > > > > > 2603643534597848;12899:
> > > > > > > > 2533274923562209;12898:
> > > > > > > > > 2603643534597848;12897:
> > > > > > > > > > 2533274866652866;12890:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Think I’d rather play a “new” classic game over the 360 versions that have no support to them and pretty much no population to them (besides reach but don’t like reach) and a still broken mcc that too has no support. How many people do you think want to play/tolerate barren games that have no support to them? Not to mention those games aren’t new and we’ve played them many times over, hence why people want a new classic game.
> > > > >
> > > > > What was successful nine years ago wouldn’t necessarily be as successful today.
> > > >
> > > > And all people ask is to test that hypothesis. Go ahead and release a proper sequel to Halo 3. Redefine and rebalance the sandbox. Try to improve on what the complains in Halo 3 were, like a higher base movement speed and FoV. I honestly doubt it would sell worse than Halo 5 at this point so there isn’t much to lose I think.
> > >
> > > That’s a bit unfair to say it’s an untested hypothesis.
> > >
> > >
> > > > 2533274866906624;12915:
> > > > We have not had a classic style Halo since 2007, which was the most successful Halo ever.
> > >
> > > See above.
> >
> > It’s also unfair to gauge or draw any conclusions to the success of classic halo game play within a collection that 343 severely failed to care for within the first 4 months of its life span.
>
> I have not made any conclusions. I have shown that 343i tried giving a VERY classic Halo experience.
>
> As for misclaiming the game only got 4 months of support, while it certainly didn’t get service past a year, many are making the parallel that Sprint = low populated Halos. Obviously, there’s a lot more to it than “Sprint ruined Halo.”
>
> HCS ran H2A tournaments. H2A was/is there for custom games of an updated Halo on XB1 coding. That the overall Halo community isn’t playing the games they loved still, while so many other “old” games are still being played, does not equate to Sprint being THE factor. That the competitive crowd didn’t support H2A more, that’s up to them.

The game was unplayable for months., it received no support beyond fixes and a “We’re sorry” map, only a handful of maps to play on, it was hidden under 4 other games, and it saw tournaments cancelled because of the sorry state it was in. It still has issues even today. According to the members of a Halo club I’m involved with, you can’t play the game split screen in Matchmaking. And the one time I my group did vote for the game during BTB it did in fact boot out the split screeners. They said that’s why they don’t run customs of the game, because it’s too fickle.

No one could support a game that was barely finished.

The gameplay itself is actually really fun. But there is no comparison to the support, attention, and marketing Halo 2A MP received, compared to that of either Halo 4 or 5.

(I know the point you are trying to make, but I still don’t think it’s a fair comparison)

> 2533274901833242;12933:
> > 2533274867519109;12931:
> > > 2533274812413921;12930:
> > > > 2533274855279867;12928:
> > > > > 2533274812413921;12924:
> > > > > People who dislike sprint give definitive statements about why it should not be in Halo.
> > > > > “Sprint is bad, because…”
> > > > >
> > > > > People who defend sprint only give vague disagreements.
> > > > > “You can’t say that for sure”
> > > > > “That doesn’t necessarily mean…”
> > > > >
> > > > > If you think sprint SHOULD be in Halo, please explain why. Other than “I like it”
> > > > > and please be specific. Use evidence of why it is good for the game.
> > > > >
> > > > > Here’s my evidence of why it is NOT.
> > > > > Maps are stretched out to accommodate sprint. (Yes, look at Truth opposed to Midship)
> > > > > Sprint/Abilities do not work on classic Halo maps. (Lockout’s flow would be shattered. You could jump from BR3 to Snipe3 without touching the ground.)
> > > > > You put your weapon down to run into battle (This isn’t fast gameplay, you actually slow gameplay down by stopping because you have to put your gun back up.)
> > > > > Multiple movement speeds creates randomized player/team movement. (Uncertainty IS random)
> > > > > Risk v.s. Reward doesn’t make sense for sprint. (You are removing the ability to shoot / making a bad play, that could turn out good by escaping / obtaining power items.)
> > > > > Slide/Spartan Charge/Thrust/Stabilize allow you to make inconceivable jumps you should not be allowed to make.
> > > > > A “Modern game” does not NEED sprint. Why would it? (To be like other games? Halo should be setting itself apart from other titles, not trying to blend in.)
> > > > >
> > > > > Now ask yourself, what makes sprint a GOOD mechanic? How does it improve gameplay?
> > > > > Would you abandon the franchise if sprint was removed?
> > > > >
> > > > > Seriously, explain why sprint is good somebody?
> > > >
> > > > you spend a lot of time presenting evidence that boils down to opinion. How is that any better than simply saying “I dont like sprint”?
> > > >
> > > > all of this, on both sides, has been laid out in detail, like, years ago.
> > >
> > > What.
> > > Nothing I said is opinionated…
> > > All the points I just made, how is that just my opinion? It’s logic, not opinion.
> > > You did exactly what I was just referring to btw, you try to diminish my logic without actually presenting your own.
> > > In any argument, there is a right and wrong, based on logical evidence.
> > > Unless you can counter my logic, and disprove me, I’m right. That’s how arguments works.
> > >
> > > Tell me why sprint is good for the game.
> > > If your last statement is vaguely: “That’s just your opinion.” You have lost the argument.
> >
> > Sprint is good because it allows the player to exercise the “flight” response when under pressure–even if it’s the illusion of it. So when the adrenaline spikes and fighting has been eliminated as a course of action, turning tail and retreating is the only other recourse (I guess you can “surrender” too as a tertiary option). So you see, psychologically speaking, implementing sprint translates the player’s natural, healthy reaction response to his/her digital avatar. I’m the kind of person that has to sit close to the exit and skirt the fringe of a crowd. Running is definitely a valid response to anxiety and dangers…even in a simulation. This is of course an opinion, but I think it is a coherent and compelling argument for the controversial gameplay mechanic we call “sprint”.
>
> That’s exactly what fans of the older halos don’t like about sprint. It rewards the flight response over the fight reponse. It rewards a defensive style of play and allows more room for error in movement, aim, and positioning. High level CE doubles is like a game of chess. You have to think two moves ahead of your opponent because if you don’t properly predict where your opponent is and you make the wrong move you are going to get annihilated. If you get caught in a bad spot you can’t run away. You are forced to battle your way out and rely on your strafe and your shot to get you out of that spot. You are punished for your bad positioning and rewarded for placing good shots under pressure. Likewise, you are rewarded heavily for having good positioning because opponents who are caught in a bad spot can’t run away. Sprint is first and foremost and defensive tactic (since you can’t even shoot while doing it) and shrinks the skill gap between good players and great players.

You can’t sprint when being shot, unless you were already at full speed. In my opinion, sprint adds a new factor into the game. It offers increased mobility for no defense, much like Soldier 76 from Overwatch. Increased BMS would be like having no sprint at all if everybody moves at the same speed.

> 2533274850895003;12938:
> > 2533274901833242;12933:
> > > 2533274867519109;12931:
> > > > 2533274812413921;12930:
> > > > > 2533274855279867;12928:
> > > > > > 2533274812413921;12924:
> > > > > > People who dislike sprint give definitive statements about why it should not be in Halo.
> > > > > > “Sprint is bad, because…”
> > > > > >
> > > > > > People who defend sprint only give vague disagreements.
> > > > > > “You can’t say that for sure”
> > > > > > “That doesn’t necessarily mean…”
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If you think sprint SHOULD be in Halo, please explain why. Other than “I like it”
> > > > > > and please be specific. Use evidence of why it is good for the game.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Here’s my evidence of why it is NOT.
> > > > > > Maps are stretched out to accommodate sprint. (Yes, look at Truth opposed to Midship)
> > > > > > Sprint/Abilities do not work on classic Halo maps. (Lockout’s flow would be shattered. You could jump from BR3 to Snipe3 without touching the ground.)
> > > > > > You put your weapon down to run into battle (This isn’t fast gameplay, you actually slow gameplay down by stopping because you have to put your gun back up.)
> > > > > > Multiple movement speeds creates randomized player/team movement. (Uncertainty IS random)
> > > > > > Risk v.s. Reward doesn’t make sense for sprint. (You are removing the ability to shoot / making a bad play, that could turn out good by escaping / obtaining power items.)
> > > > > > Slide/Spartan Charge/Thrust/Stabilize allow you to make inconceivable jumps you should not be allowed to make.
> > > > > > A “Modern game” does not NEED sprint. Why would it? (To be like other games? Halo should be setting itself apart from other titles, not trying to blend in.)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Now ask yourself, what makes sprint a GOOD mechanic? How does it improve gameplay?
> > > > > > Would you abandon the franchise if sprint was removed?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Seriously, explain why sprint is good somebody?
> > > > >
> > > > > you spend a lot of time presenting evidence that boils down to opinion. How is that any better than simply saying “I dont like sprint”?
> > > > >
> > > > > all of this, on both sides, has been laid out in detail, like, years ago.
> > > >
> > > > What.
> > > > Nothing I said is opinionated…
> > > > All the points I just made, how is that just my opinion? It’s logic, not opinion.
> > > > You did exactly what I was just referring to btw, you try to diminish my logic without actually presenting your own.
> > > > In any argument, there is a right and wrong, based on logical evidence.
> > > > Unless you can counter my logic, and disprove me, I’m right. That’s how arguments works.
> > > >
> > > > Tell me why sprint is good for the game.
> > > > If your last statement is vaguely: “That’s just your opinion.” You have lost the argument.
> > >
> > > Sprint is good because it allows the player to exercise the “flight” response when under pressure–even if it’s the illusion of it. So when the adrenaline spikes and fighting has been eliminated as a course of action, turning tail and retreating is the only other recourse (I guess you can “surrender” too as a tertiary option). So you see, psychologically speaking, implementing sprint translates the player’s natural, healthy reaction response to his/her digital avatar. I’m the kind of person that has to sit close to the exit and skirt the fringe of a crowd. Running is definitely a valid response to anxiety and dangers…even in a simulation. This is of course an opinion, but I think it is a coherent and compelling argument for the controversial gameplay mechanic we call “sprint”.
> >
> > That’s exactly what fans of the older halos don’t like about sprint. It rewards the flight response over the fight reponse. It rewards a defensive style of play and allows more room for error in movement, aim, and positioning. High level CE doubles is like a game of chess. You have to think two moves ahead of your opponent because if you don’t properly predict where your opponent is and you make the wrong move you are going to get annihilated. If you get caught in a bad spot you can’t run away. You are forced to battle your way out and rely on your strafe and your shot to get you out of that spot. You are punished for your bad positioning and rewarded for placing good shots under pressure. Likewise, you are rewarded heavily for having good positioning because opponents who are caught in a bad spot can’t run away. Sprint is first and foremost and defensive tactic (since you can’t even shoot while doing it) and shrinks the skill gap between good players and great players.
>
> You can’t sprint when being shot, unless you were already at full speed. In my opinion, sprint adds a new factor into the game. It offers increased mobility for no defense, much like Soldier 76 from Overwatch. Increased BMS would be like having no sprint at all if everybody moves at the same speed.

The way I see it, all it does is throw a gimmicky mechanic at a factor that’s already been there since the inception of FPS games… in fact… most other games period. Movement.

“Increased BMS would be like having no sprint at all if everybody moves at the same speed.” …and if everybody sprints at the same speed, nobody has a single distinct advantage over anyone else… and while that isn’t a bad thing in itself, what makes it bad [IMO] is… you’ve chosen to be at a disadvantage in doing it. You’ve literally done nothing but sacrifice shield regen and guns up gameplay for… and I know this’ll be hard to accept for some, but it’s true… a faster “push button” BMS.

Set aside the whole “rewarding of the fight/flight response”, the only thing sprint has done that I can see is given the aggressor the option of deciding if s/he can get the kill via shooting before the opponent can get away, or utilizing sprint him/herself to keep the engagement going. While it may be arguable that it shrinks the skill gap, I can tell you from my own personal experience… as a 49yr old gamer who has played many games, both with and without sprint. Even if sprint does shrink the skill gap and despite my age putting me at a natural reactionary disadvantage, I’d rather not have sprint to mess with. I feel it does make one think a few steps ahead and plan things out more and I see nothing wrong with that kind of tactical approach. Seemed to work well enough with previous titles.

> 2533274850895003;12938:
> > 2533274901833242;12933:
> > That’s exactly what fans of the older halos don’t like about sprint. It rewards the flight response over the fight reponse. It rewards a defensive style of play and allows more room for error in movement, aim, and positioning. High level CE doubles is like a game of chess. You have to think two moves ahead of your opponent because if you don’t properly predict where your opponent is and you make the wrong move you are going to get annihilated. If you get caught in a bad spot you can’t run away. You are forced to battle your way out and rely on your strafe and your shot to get you out of that spot. You are punished for your bad positioning and rewarded for placing good shots under pressure. Likewise, you are rewarded heavily for having good positioning because opponents who are caught in a bad spot can’t run away. Sprint is first and foremost and defensive tactic (since you can’t even shoot while doing it) and shrinks the skill gap between good players and great players.
>
> You can’t sprint when being shot, unless you were already at full speed. In my opinion, sprint adds a new factor into the game. It offers increased mobility for no defense, much like Soldier 76 from Overwatch. Increased BMS would be like having no sprint at all if everybody moves at the same speed.

I’m very happy to see people coming out of the woodwork to point out the problems of sprint. The last 5 or so responses are perfect and need to keep coming. So we’ve established sprint is primarily for removing yourself from encounters. Like a few people before me stated, that shouldn’t be a good thing. It may help you feel better from a psychological standpoint, but it ruins gameplay. You are being rewarded essentially for sprinting away with your life. But that means the person who was going to win the fight gets punished for no reason. They did everything right, but they were cheated out of a kill because you could sprint away. That isn’t competitive, and it certainly isn’t fair. Now just because everyone has sprint doesn’t make it fair, because when you start sprinting to chase that person, you lower your gun, and they have the upper hand now. That’s silly.

So having increased mobility for the lack of offense, doesn’t really make sense, because then you are primarily avoiding a fight by running away, or running towards something out of harms way. The very fact that all these restrictions have to be placed on sprint (no shield gain, no weapon, must be at full speed…) only strengthen the argument that sprint causes more problems than it solves, if any.

Now let’s say, okay “well how about if we can still shoot while sprinting?” That doesn’t make sense, because now there is no reason NOT to be sprinting right? So why not always be sprinting? Well, that’s what the BMS is. You already are sprinting, it may not feel like it, but using the in-game measurement system, you’re running at about 6-8 meters per second. Real world translation: you’re sprinting. Adding a sprint button is a placebo effect that makes BMS feel like it is slow, but it isn’t. Field of view helps perception as well.

I’m actually quite surprised 343 continues to include sprint since they are “lore-focused.” Spartans would realistically be able to shoot accurately and sprint at the same time. Remember the intro cutscene of Halo 5 where fire team Osiris is descending the snowy mountain side? Now imagine they have to stop/slow down to shoot. That would be absolutely terrible wouldn’t it? Granted using lore isn’t a strong argument since it shouldn’t impact the multiplayer aspect of Halo, but it’s worth noting to those who find it worthy.

Certain people after all of this may still say, they like sprint, but should their feelings outweigh evidence that it ruins gameplay?
If sprint was removed for Halo 6, would you not buy it because of sprint? Most likely, you wouldn’t care, and still buy it. This is the opposite however, for the classic fans of Halo. Many have stopped buying and playing Halo because with sprint and new abilities, the game is hardly recognizable to the originals they enjoyed. To look at the popularity of Halo before and after sprint, and disregard it to be “other factors” that ruined Halo, would simply be naive. If it is going to get better, it needs to remove sprint, and resemble the classic games to some extent. Not saying we need a copy/paste, but more so something that resembles classic Halo more than what we have now.

If you disagree, look at Halo 4 to Halo 5. People complained about classes, ordinance, random power weapons, and much more.
So what happened? Halo went back to fair start matches, where everyone was on the same level off spawn. Now we need to go back just a little bit farther, and remove sprint.

> 2603643534597848;12921:
> > 2533274968707582;12920:
> > > 2603643534597848;12919:
> > > > 2533274891802271;12918:
> > > > > 2533274825830455;12916:
> > > > > > 2533274866906624;12915:
> > > > > > > 2603643534597848;12899:
> > > > > > > > 2533274923562209;12898:
> > > > > > > > > 2603643534597848;12897:
> > > > > > > > > > 2533274866652866;12890:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Think I’d rather play a “new” classic game over the 360 versions that have no support to them and pretty much no population to them (besides reach but don’t like reach) and a still broken mcc that too has no support. How many people do you think want to play/tolerate barren games that have no support to them? Not to mention those games aren’t new and we’ve played them many times over, hence why people want a new classic game.
> > > > >
> > > > > What was successful nine years ago wouldn’t necessarily be as successful today.
> > > >
> > > > And all people ask is to test that hypothesis. Go ahead and release a proper sequel to Halo 3. Redefine and rebalance the sandbox. Try to improve on what the complains in Halo 3 were, like a higher base movement speed and FoV. I honestly doubt it would sell worse than Halo 5 at this point so there isn’t much to lose I think.
> > >
> > > That’s a bit unfair to say it’s an untested hypothesis.
> > >
> > >
> > > > 2533274866906624;12915:
> > > > We have not had a classic style Halo since 2007, which was the most successful Halo ever.
> > >
> > > See above.
> >
> > It’s also unfair to gauge or draw any conclusions to the success of classic halo game play within a collection that 343 severely failed to care for within the first 4 months of its life span.
>
> I have not made any conclusions. I have shown that 343i tried giving a VERY classic Halo experience.
>
> As for misclaiming the game only got 4 months of support, while it certainly didn’t get service past a year, many are making the parallel that Sprint = low populated Halos. Obviously, there’s a lot more to it than “Sprint ruined Halo.”
>
> HCS ran H2A tournaments. H2A was/is there for custom games of an updated Halo on XB1 coding. That the overall Halo community isn’t playing the games they loved still, while so many other “old” games are still being played, does not equate to Sprint being THE factor. That the competitive crowd didn’t support H2A more, that’s up to them.

MCC was a very poorly created Halo game, that never had a chance. Sure, if the game worked, it would have been amazing. But it didn’t, and still has many issues to this day…

> 2533274812413921;12924:
> People who dislike sprint give definitive statements about why it should not be in Halo.
> “Sprint is bad, because…”
>
> People who defend sprint only give vague disagreements.
> “You can’t say that for sure”
> “That doesn’t necessarily mean…”
>
> If you think sprint SHOULD be in Halo, please explain why. Other than “I like it”
> and please be specific. Use evidence of why it is good for the game.
>
> Here’s my evidence of why it is NOT.
> Maps are stretched out to accommodate sprint. (Yes, look at Truth opposed to Midship)
> Sprint/Abilities do not work on classic Halo maps. (Lockout’s flow would be shattered. You could jump from BR3 to Snipe3 without touching the ground.)
> You put your weapon down to run into battle (This isn’t fast gameplay, you actually slow gameplay down by stopping because you have to put your gun back up.)
> Multiple movement speeds creates randomized player/team movement. (Uncertainty IS random)
> Risk v.s. Reward doesn’t make sense for sprint. (You are removing the ability to shoot / making a bad play, that could turn out good by escaping / obtaining power items.)
> Slide/Spartan Charge/Thrust/Stabilize allow you to make inconceivable jumps you should not be allowed to make.
> A “Modern game” does not NEED sprint. Why would it? (To be like other games? Halo should be setting itself apart from other titles, not trying to blend in.)
>
> Now ask yourself, what makes sprint a GOOD mechanic? How does it improve gameplay?
> Would you abandon the franchise if sprint was removed?
>
> Seriously, explain why sprint is good somebody?

Great points! Midship’s close quarters combat is top notch, and that magic is not captured near as well with sprint. Sprint serves to randomize the Halo experience, by not being able to aim while shooting, and over-complicates the gameplay. Not to mention spartan charge and ground pound randomizes it as well. While all three abilities allow players an escape from poor positioning and decision making.

> 2533274825830455;12916:
> > 2533274866906624;12915:
> > > 2603643534597848;12899:
> > > > 2533274923562209;12898:
> > > > > 2603643534597848;12897:
> > > > > > 2533274866652866;12890:
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Think I’d rather play a “new” classic game over the 360 versions that have no support to them and pretty much no population to them (besides reach but don’t like reach) and a still broken mcc that too has no support. How many people do you think want to play/tolerate barren games that have no support to them? Not to mention those games aren’t new and we’ve played them many times over, hence why people want a new classic game.
> > >
> > > What kind of arguement is this?
> > > Reach, H4 & H5 all have such low populations to begin with, right!?
> > > H5 has low population because everyone wants to play the MCC games BUT not play the MCC games right?
> > > 343i doesn’t listen to its fans but H5G is getting lots of support for its fans and population is reflecting this?
> > >
> > > There’s so many ways this PoV flops to ensure it’s always throwing salt.
> > > 343i can’t win because you want a classic game but won’t play those classic games with equally lack of support, population and other “made up” reasons.’’
> > > Let me show you explicitly;
> > >
> > >
> > > > Not to mention those games aren’t new and we’ve played them many times over, hence why people want a new classic game.
> > >
> > > You don’t want to play the old stale games… But you want to play the old stale games.
> >
> > We have not had a classic style Halo since 2007, which was the most successful Halo ever.
>
> What was successful nine years ago wouldn’t necessarily be as successful today.

That gameplay never had a chance to get old. Reach came, and changed things drastically.