The sprint discussion thread

Games Halo 5: Guardians
12644

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> > > > > Could SOMEONE at 343i make even the most simpliest tweet saying;
> > > > >
> > > > > “There’ll be a No Sprint playlist in Halo 6”
> > > > >
> > > > > Please?
> > > >
> > > > A no sprint game would be better.
>
> “What? So after a year the game just doesn’t have sprint?” - I was being sarcastic.
>
> “Agreed. I’m missing your point. What was it?” - It was that you didn’t want to pay $60 for a playlist, referring to it as a “fraction of a game.” I believe I made the mistake of thinking your statement came from a pro sprint view and therefor saw it as being upset despite the fact that you’d be getting the larger amount of game and calling it a fraction? I was simply pointing out that this [which you agree] happens pretty often. That being the case [I believe] it’s simply misinterpretation on my part, sorry.
>
>
> “I didn’t mean that you shouldn’t buy a game because you’re not gonna enjoy all of it. But the context here was one playlist. I have never played a playlist that’s worth $60. Have you?” - I purchased GOW4… preordered it, basically because TC decided to take the game back to its roots, not to mention they included horde mode at launch and it wasn’t some half baked mutation of it that was so different that they actually decided to call it something other than horde. But I digress. As a matter of fact, I played campaign and horde. Haven’t touched vs MP except for a few (like 3 total) bot matches. If you don’t consider campaign (I do), then I may be more hesitant to pay that much for just horde mode… but then again, it’d actually be a close call as I do like horde mode.

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> *“At least that’s an effort to appease both sides and show some consideration”**-No it’s not! It’s a slap in my face. You see, to me it’s pretty obvious which side of the community has been getting the short end of the stick for the last couple of years. H4, H5 and MCC are way worse than “6 months without infection”, so ask me if your interests are at the top of my mind.*An effort to appease both sides would be to divide the game for anti-sprint- and pro-sprint players. Of course- then everyone would be paying $60 on 1/2 of a game. - I agree on the part about who got the short end, but if they do nothing and give no playlist for non sprint at all, you’re not even getting the short end of the stick… are you? The way I see it, you’re getting slapped in the face… with the stick. I have no plans to buy H6 at all and sprint is a reason, but it’s only one in a long list. However, if sprint were the only reason, I’d consider buying it if they offered a non sprint playlist… but it would depend on how good that playlist would be. At the rate they’re going, considering the petty amount of launch content we got, a non sprint playlist would likely qualify as half of the game anyway.

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> *I wouldn’t drop $60 on either of them.*Sorry if this came out angry. Thank you for your time.

Your prerogative of course. The way things have been going though, I doubt a non sprint playlist will happen. It’d take a lot more than doing just that to make me want to buy anyway, but… sounds to me like neither of us will be dropping $60 on H6… yes?

12645

I’m at the point where I just don’t care. Other, better, games have taken my attention away from this game, and I’m completely okay with that. I realize now, and I guess have known for a while, that I was forcing myself to come back and play Halo 5 because I’ve been such a long time fan of the series. Fun fact, this is the first Halo game where I didn’t collect all the skulls or audio logs or whatever collectibles the campaign offered. This is the first Halo game that a majority of my friends stopped playing literally within the first week. If this is what 343i plan to base the rest of their games on then I’m done. But I think that they know it’s a failure. They can put out all the skewed stats, and player retention numbers they want, but there is no hiding the facts, and they’re not stupid, they know Halo 5 is a failure. I’m just hoping that they do what they should do. Return the series to its actual roots. Not just say that they are and then go ahead and add more movement abilities than any other game in the series. Sprint needs to be removed if they want Halo 6 to succeed. Same with thruster, and clamber, and all the other garbage they added to the series. What should stay though is Ground Pound. I like that a lot. It’s fun, and feels good, and doesn’t ruin everything around it in order to be implemented.

Halo 6 can remove sprint and still “move forward”. Imagine this. Halo 2 Anniversary as a base, with 110% base movement speed, instant movement acceleration, a double jump similar to DOOM, the ability to choose between AR and BR starts, ground pound, and smart scope (or just call it ADS because that’s what it is). Hell, you could throw equipment in too. That game clearly is “Halo” but would stand out as well. It’s roots are locked in the series past, but things are grown on top of the already existing systems. That game, as long as it had a decent campaign and a good amount of launch content, would be an instant success.

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> Halo 6 can remove sprint and still “move forward”. Imagine this. Halo 2 Anniversary as a base, with 110% base movement speed, instant movement acceleration, a double jump similar to DOOM, the ability to choose between AR and BR starts, ground pound, and smart scope (or just call it ADS because that’s what it is). Hell, you could throw equipment in too. That game clearly is “Halo” but would stand out as well. It’s roots are locked in the series past, but things are grown on top of the already existing systems. That game, as long as it had a decent campaign and a good amount of launch content, would be an instant success.

I agree with basically everything else but this.
No.
Just no.
ADS isn’t and will never be “Halo”.
If Halo 6 or whatever they’ll call it (as they want to move away from numbered titles) has ADS, I’m not touching it.
Not on release, not later, not used, not at all
It’s on the same level as sprint to me.
I’d rather have clamber and thrust than ADS.
In fact, I would prefer clamber and/or thrust to ground pound and especially ADS.

12647

> 2533274801176260;12646:
> > 2533274800772611;12645:
> > Halo 6 can remove sprint and still “move forward”. Imagine this. Halo 2 Anniversary as a base, with 110% base movement speed, instant movement acceleration, a double jump similar to DOOM, the ability to choose between AR and BR starts, ground pound, and smart scope (or just call it ADS because that’s what it is). Hell, you could throw equipment in too. That game clearly is “Halo” but would stand out as well. It’s roots are locked in the series past, but things are grown on top of the already existing systems. That game, as long as it had a decent campaign and a good amount of launch content, would be an instant success.
>
> I agree with basically everything else but this.
> No.
> Just no.
> ADS isn’t and will never be “Halo”.
> If Halo 6 or whatever they’ll call it (as they want to move away from numbered titles) has ADS, I’m not touching it.
> Not on release, not later, not used, not at all
> It’s on the same level as sprint to me.
> I’d rather have clamber and thrust than ADS.
> In fact, I would prefer clamber and/or thrust to ground pound and especially ADS.

I was just saying that smart scope is ADS, because it is. Are guns more accurate from the hip than other fps’? Obviously. Does smart scope give weapons increased accuracy and other boosts? Yes as well. Just because it’s not as drastic doesn’t mean that it’s not ADS. The default controller setting more or less prove this. Zoom is on LT, implying that they want you to aim down sights more than they want you to throw grenades. It’s an integral part of the sandbox to them.

You’d rather have thruster and clamber than ground pound? You’re an insane person. Ground Pound has no impact on the “core” Halo design at all, where as the game basically has to be redesigned from the ground up to account for thruster and clamber.

12648

> 2533274800772611;12647:
> I was just saying that smart scope is ADS, because it is. Are guns more accurate from the hip than other fps’? Obviously. Does smart scope give weapons increased accuracy and other boosts? Yes as well. Just because it’s not as drastic doesn’t mean that it’s not ADS. The default controller setting more or less prove this. Zoom is on LT, implying that they want you to aim down sights more than they want you to throw grenades. It’s an integral part of the sandbox to them.

Call it smart-scope or call it ADS. I know it’s the same thing. I want it gone from Halo.

> 2533274800772611;12647:
> You’d rather have thruster and clamber than ground pound? You’re an insane person. Ground Pound has no impact on the “core” Halo design at all, where as the game basically has to be redesigned from the ground up to account for thruster and clamber.

At least clamber and thruster don’t hand you free, undeserved kills like ground pound does. I’d rather have GP gone than the other two.
But frankly, if it absolutely needs to be in the next game, I’d swallow the pill. Likewise, if thrust and clamber were to be removed, so be it.
Sprint and ADS, however, are non-negotiable. I’m not buying/playing a single “Halo” (notice the airquotes) game as long as either of those mechanics are in.

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> > I was just saying that smart scope is ADS, because it is. Are guns more accurate from the hip than other fps’? Obviously. Does smart scope give weapons increased accuracy and other boosts? Yes as well. Just because it’s not as drastic doesn’t mean that it’s not ADS. The default controller setting more or less prove this. Zoom is on LT, implying that they want you to aim down sights more than they want you to throw grenades. It’s an integral part of the sandbox to them.
>
> Call it smart-scope or call it ADS. I know it’s the same thing. I want it gone from Halo.
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274800772611;12647:
> > You’d rather have thruster and clamber than ground pound? You’re an insane person. Ground Pound has no impact on the “core” Halo design at all, where as the game basically has to be redesigned from the ground up to account for thruster and clamber.
>
> At least clamber and thruster don’t hand you free, undeserved kills like ground pound does. I’d rather have GP gone than the other two.
> But frankly, if it absolutely needs to be in the next game, I’d swallow the pill. Likewise, if thrust and clamber were to be removed, so be it.
> Sprint and ADS, however, are non-negotiable. I’m not buying/playing a single “Halo” (notice the airquotes) game as long as either of those mechanics are in.

Okay, I thought you were saying that Smart Scope and ADS are different things. I don’t mind it on some weapons. Where it bothers me in on things like the Sword and Hammer where it gives a noticeable and drastic improvement to the point where it becomes required. On the AR, it doesn’t really bother me, and I think that if they balanced it like they did for guns like the AR and SMG for all the weapons it would be fine. I like the consistency where every weapon has some variation of zoom. Going back to the MCC, it’s one of the things that I notice missing, even if I don’t use it all that often.

Lets just agree to disagree on Ground Pound I guess. I do think that it could be made a little bit harder, but it’s not free kills unless the person you are playing against is not paying attention at all. Maybe not having any or at least drastically scaling back splash damage would be a good change, but at its core I like Ground pound a lot. To me thruster, clamber, and sprint are all the same. They ruin map design and force you to be taken out of the game to use them. If you could shoot while thrusting I wouldn’t have as big an issue, but overall I’m not a fan. I also think that a DOOM style double jump would do a lot of the good of thruster and clamber, with almost none of the negative.

12650

> 2533274801176260;12646:
> > 2533274800772611;12645:
> > Halo 6 can remove sprint and still “move forward”. Imagine this. Halo 2 Anniversary as a base, with 110% base movement speed, instant movement acceleration, a double jump similar to DOOM, the ability to choose between AR and BR starts, ground pound, and smart scope (or just call it ADS because that’s what it is). Hell, you could throw equipment in too. That game clearly is “Halo” but would stand out as well. It’s roots are locked in the series past, but things are grown on top of the already existing systems. That game, as long as it had a decent campaign and a good amount of launch content, would be an instant success.
>
> I agree with basically everything else but this.
> No.
> Just no.
> ADS isn’t and will never be “Halo”.
> **If Halo 6 or whatever they’ll call it (as they want to move away from numbered titles) has ADS, I’m not touching it.**Not on release, not later, not used, not at all
> It’s on the same level as sprint to me.
> I’d rather have clamber and thrust than ADS.
> In fact, I would prefer clamber and/or thrust to ground pound and especially ADS.

Why? I don’t like it but it isn’t game-breaking(to me).

12651

I’m a first hour halo gamer, i basically play nothing else since H1 came out and i have to be honest: i really cannot understand all this sprint and ADS hate.
I respect everyone opinion but i start to feel a bit irritated by all these players throwing piles of -Yoink- on this game just because it tried to move on refreshing a formula that even during H3 started to be a little old and stale.

Why on earth sprint cannot belong to halo?
This game is what it is thanks to its incomparable sandbox, the unic shield mechanic, the incredible universe it creates and so on. To me sprint adds only more dynamism to the game making it more frenetic and encouraging rapid incursions and assault but also the possibility to choose how to act from time to time: rush to the enemy, move around carefully or simply crouch behind a wall.
My opinion is that the variability it brings to the game is what people cannot afford: the only idea of losing an easy kill because someone runs away (having the chance to do it) seems something impossible to overcome when in reality is something absolutely normal and natural.
Everyone uses Doom or overwatch as examples of “modern games without sprint”: IMO the base movement mechanics in those games are just unrealistic and sluggish: its like forcing someone to move at one speed and stop, end of the story. Zero dynamism, all the same every time.
Pretty boring on the long shot.
And i’m not speaking about movement speed.
Come on! Moving like that is like practicing march instead of running in sports like basket or football.
Mechanics like sprint are meant to bring realism and dynamism to the game: we are supersoldiers fighting in a -Yoinking!- war, why we shouldn’t be able to run away if someone shots to us or climb a wall having the strength of 100 men thanks to mjolnir armour?

For ADS: have you realized that is just the normal reskinned aim as always? And for aiming with automatics, even if it increases the accuracy (this is aiming scope, isn’ it?) i say: it’s about time. I always blamed halo for the inability to aim with automatics, just pure idiocy. How the hell i cannot be able to aim properly with an assault rifle?
And just to make everyone aware: i said this in the first moment i grab my first halo copy. Before that i had never played a single FPS game (speaking the truth, i hated them; halo made me appreciate this genre).

I think that if all this would be introduced with H2 it would be considered like a simple and natural evolution of the simplistic H1 mechanism and no one would argue with that saying “H2 is not halo!” and so on.

To finish this post: sprint, ads and the other new mechanics are here to stay, end of the story.
Stop complaining for something that will never come back so drastically on its footsteps.

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> 2533274943854776;12650:
> > 2533274801176260;12646:
> > > 2533274800772611;12645:
> > > Halo 6 can remove sprint and still “move forward”. Imagine this. Halo 2 Anniversary as a base, with 110% base movement speed, instant movement acceleration, a double jump similar to DOOM, the ability to choose between AR and BR starts, ground pound, and smart scope (or just call it ADS because that’s what it is). Hell, you could throw equipment in too. That game clearly is “Halo” but would stand out as well. It’s roots are locked in the series past, but things are grown on top of the already existing systems. That game, as long as it had a decent campaign and a good amount of launch content, would be an instant success.
> >
> > I agree with basically everything else but this.
> > No.
> > Just no.
> > ADS isn’t and will never be “Halo”.
> > **If Halo 6 or whatever they’ll call it (as they want to move away from numbered titles) has ADS, I’m not touching it.**Not on release, not later, not used, not at all
> > It’s on the same level as sprint to me.
> > I’d rather have clamber and thrust than ADS.
> > In fact, I would prefer clamber and/or thrust to ground pound and especially ADS.
>
> Why? I don’t like it but it isn’t game-breaking(to me).

I literally cannot aim this way. Weapons such as the light rifle might be okay, and the DMR or rocket launcher are barely acceptable… but things such as the pistol or battle rifle that block huge parts of the reticule are like eye-cancer to me. My aim gets worse when scoping, because I cannot see what I’m actually aiming at, which is the exact opposite of what zoom is supposed to do. It has always been like that, in any game with ADS ever. I’ve played games such as Metro 2033 or Bioshock Infinite without ever scoping once, because it would have worsened my aim, causing me to miss more shots.

This might be one of the few situations where it’s actually appropriate to tell me to “git gud”, but frankly, I don’t want to and I don’t have to. I don’t enjoy putting up with a mechanic that disempowers me as a player (just like sprint robbing me of my offensive abilities) and I especially don’t feel like paying money for something like that. Why would I spend my (not really) hard-earned cash on something that just pisses me off? I’ll just avoid the game altogether instead.

The fact that it contradicts lore is just the icing on the cake…

12653

> 2533274822267898;12651:
> I’m a first hour halo gamer, i basically play nothing else since H1 came out and i have to be honest: i really cannot understand all this sprint and ADS hate.
> I respect everyone opinion but i start to feel a bit irritated by all these players throwing piles of -Yoink- on this game just because it tried to move on refreshing a formula that even during H3 started to be a little old and stale.
>
> Why on earth sprint cannot belong to halo?
> This game is what it is thanks to its incomparable sandbox, the unic shield mechanic, the incredible universe it creates and so on. To me sprint adds only more dynamism to the game making it more frenetic and encouraging rapid incursions and assault but also the possibility to choose how to act from time to time: rush to the enemy, move around carefully or simply crouch behind a wall.
> My opinion is that the variability it brings to the game is what people cannot afford: the only idea of losing an easy kill because someone runs away (having the chance to do it) seems something impossible to overcome when in reality is something absolutely normal and natural.
> Everyone uses Doom or overwatch as examples of “modern games without sprint”: IMO the base movement mechanics in those games are just unrealistic and sluggish: its like forcing someone to move at one speed and stop, end of the story. Zero dynamism, all the same every time.
> Pretty boring on the long shot.
> And i’m not speaking about movement speed.
> Come on! Moving like that is like practicing march instead of running in sports like basket or football.
> Mechanics like sprint are meant to bring realism and dynamism to the game: we are supersoldiers fighting in a -Yoinking!- war, why we shouldn’t be able to run away if someone shots to us or climb a wall having the strength of 100 men thanks to mjolnir armour?
>
> For ADS: have you realized that is just the normal reskinned aim as always? And for aiming with automatics, even if it increases the accuracy (this is aiming scope, isn’ it?) i say: it’s about time. I always blamed halo for the inability to aim with automatics, just pure idiocy. How the hell i cannot be able to aim properly with an assault rifle?
> And just to make everyone aware: i said this in the first moment i grab my first halo copy. Before that i had never played a single FPS game (speaking the truth, i hated them; halo made me appreciate this genre).
>
> I think that if all this would be introduced with H2 it would be considered like a simple and natural evolution of the simplistic H1 mechanism and no one would argue with that saying “H2 is not halo!” and so on.
>
> To finish this post: sprint, ads and the other new mechanics are here to stay, end of the story.
> Stop complaining for something that will never come back so drastically on its footsteps.

H3 stale? I didn’t realize a game breaking records was stale.

youre pretty much saying -Yoink- what made halo unique. Why did it not have ADS but used hip fire only? Cuz most shooters don’t. Why did it not have sprint? Cuz most shooters didn’t at the time, sprint was becoming a trend and halo stuck to its roots ignoring the trend while it retained its uniqueness which helped it sell better than others.

Tell me one thing halo has that another game doesn’t. Cuz I can look at every aspect of hreach-5 and name many games that have said feature/idea.

its fine if you’re ok with a mediocre p.o.s. Halo that continues to regress game by game, amazing how you don’t see why people “complain”.

12654

> 2533274822267898;12651:
> To me sprint adds only more dynamism to the game making it more frenetic and encouraging rapid incursions and assault but also the possibility to choose how to act from time to time: rush to the enemy, move around carefully or simply crouch behind a wall.
> […]Everyone uses Doom or overwatch as examples of “modern games without sprint”: IMO the base movement mechanics in those games are just unrealistic and sluggish: its like forcing someone to move at one speed and stop, end of the story. Zero dynamism, all the same every time.

Since english isn’t my native language I am not familiar with the noun “dynamism”. Are you suggesting that sprint makes Halo (or shooters in general) more dynamic? Because that is factually wrong. “Dynamic” refers to how many different possibilities a system has at any given time, i.e. thermodynamics. Being able to move and shoot is more dynamic than only being able to move or shoot.

> 2533274822267898;12651:
> Mechanics like sprint are meant to bring realism and dynamism to the game: we are supersoldiers fighting in a -Yoinking!- war, why we shouldn’t be able to run away if someone shots to us or climb a wall having the strength of 100 men thanks to mjolnir armour?

These supersoldiers are able to sprint and shoot at the same time, and at higher speeds than what is shown in the games. Disabling their ability to shoot for what is essentially a fast jog is less realistic in the context of the Halo universe.

> 2533274822267898;12651:
> For ADS: have you realized that is just the normal reskinned aim as always?

Yeah, and that’s exactly the problem. Remove those bulky weapon outlines that block the player’s FoV. Why on earth would zoom be more cluttered than the regular vision? What’s even the point in zooming like that?

> 2533274822267898;12651:
> I think that if all this would be introduced with H2 it would be considered like a simple and natural evolution of the simplistic H1 mechanism and no one would argue with that saying “H2 is not halo!” and so on.

…or no one would care because Halo would never have become the huge juggernaut it is now.

> 2533274822267898;12651:
> To finish this post: sprint, ads and the other new mechanics are here to stay, end of the story.
> Stop complaining for something that will never come back so drastically on its footsteps.

Yes, just like dual wielding and loadouts and ordnance…
Oh, wait…

12655

Halo 5 sold 3 million copies and has an average of 20k players online. Yea Lmao I don’t think Sprint, Spartan abilities, or anything like that will be in Halo 6. If they want people to buy their new game they will have to go with a classic Halo or else a lot of people who bought Halo 5 won’t care and the old fans definitely won’t care. A no sprint halo Is the only option I’m sorry but how can people think sprint will be in Halo 6?
I really do think 343 can make a good Halo game.

12656

> 2535455477282651;12655:
> Halo 5 sold 3 million copies and has an average of 20k players online. Yea Lmao I don’t think Sprint, Spartan abilities, or anything like that will be in Halo 6. If they want people to buy their new game they will have to go with a classic Halo or else a lot of people who bought Halo 5 won’t care and the old fans definitely won’t care. A no sprint halo Is the only option I’m sorry but how can people think sprint will be in Halo 6?
> I really do think 343 can make a good Halo game.

To anwser “how can people think sprint will be in halo 6?”- it’s 343 dude. I’d be surprised if they actually removed it. It’d be the best thing they’ve done since taking over.

12657

> 2533274923562209;12656:
> > 2535455477282651;12655:
> > Halo 5 sold 3 million copies and has an average of 20k players online. Yea Lmao I don’t think Sprint, Spartan abilities, or anything like that will be in Halo 6. If they want people to buy their new game they will have to go with a classic Halo or else a lot of people who bought Halo 5 won’t care and the old fans definitely won’t care. A no sprint halo Is the only option I’m sorry but how can people think sprint will be in Halo 6?
> > I really do think 343 can make a good Halo game.
>
> To anwser “how can people think sprint will be in halo 6?”- it’s 343 dude. I’d be surprised if they actually removed it. It’d be the best thing they’ve done since taking over.

They took loudouts, ordnance from halo 4 and tried appealing to both old and new fans with halo 5. it failed so the only option would be a no sprint classic halo.
Halo 4 – tried appealing to Halo and cod fans because cod was big at the time
Halo 5 – tried appealing to new and old fans
Neither worked
Halo 6 -appeal to either old or new fans. much more old fans than new and more people prefer a no-Sprint halo so classic is the only option if they want halo too succeed
A no sprint halo would be better. New fans would adapt and accept classic halo mechanics and if they don’t who cares more old than new

12658

> 2535455477282651;12657:
> > 2533274923562209;12656:
> > > 2535455477282651;12655:
> > > Halo 5 sold 3 million copies and has an average of 20k players online. Yea Lmao I don’t think Sprint, Spartan abilities, or anything like that will be in Halo 6. If they want people to buy their new game they will have to go with a classic Halo or else a lot of people who bought Halo 5 won’t care and the old fans definitely won’t care. A no sprint halo Is the only option I’m sorry but how can people think sprint will be in Halo 6?
> > > I really do think 343 can make a good Halo game.
> >
> > To anwser “how can people think sprint will be in halo 6?”- it’s 343 dude. I’d be surprised if they actually removed it. It’d be the best thing they’ve done since taking over.
>
> They took loudouts, ordnance from halo 4 and tried appealing to both old and new fans with halo 5. it failed so the only option would be a no sprint classic halo.
> Halo 4 – tried appealing to Halo and cod fans because cod was big at the time
> Halo 5 – tried appealing to new and old fans
> Neither worked
> Halo 6 -appeal to either old or new fans. much more old fans than new and more people prefer a no-Sprint halo so classic is the only option if they want halo too succeed
> A no sprint halo would be better. New fans would adapt and accept classic halo mechanics and if they don’t who cares more old than new

You’re correct they did remove stuff. However people disliked armor abilities in reach, so they figured implementing them differently in h4 would work, again it didn’t work so they changed them to “Spartan abilities” in h5. Same applies to sprint. They’ve been changing how sprint works in each game but have yet to scrap it. That’s what I’m getting at, they’ll try over and over until it works or until there is no one left wanting to play their game.

Fyi: CoD is still big now as they have three games that are in the top 10 most played(one of em is #1), they never really lost ground even if people dislike the newer direction going underway.

12659

> 2535419710095215;12639:
> Sprint was part of halo 4 and 5, back in the old times we din’t have sprint since halo ce,halo 2 and halo 3 that recently released. all I’m saying is without sprint halo players can get killed real easily, especially when you attempt to take cover.

I mean I think thats part of why I hate sprint. In the old halo games you stroll through the map always ready to fire, suddenly you get shot in the back, it was much easier (and smarter) to immediately break into a strafe and locate the player, cause one missed shot and level the playing field again. It also lead more players to be conscious of their flanks and surrounding as you had to stay near cover and couldn’t easily run away from a fight.

Sprint not only makes the option to run away a much more successful strategy but the preferred one. You are running through the map trying to get to a decent position off your spawn, you’re shot in the back and you just keep running and quickly find and duck behind the nearest cover. Then the player spams nades, chases you, or gives up. To fight back is almost silly, you must first stop sprinting, then turn to find the enemy (and with the faster fire rate and 5 shot kill) you are probably down 2 shots to someone who could run away themselves if you turn the tables with a good strafe.

I just think the sprint encourages running away instead of confrontation, removes necessary map awareness as cover is almost always moments from access, and just places more people in shot disadvantages than without it (even if you sprint into a room and see a guy first he could get the first shots on you because you were sprinting). You may argue that I should just stop sprinting or be far more cautious but with the map size, sprinting really is a necessity to transverse most maps in a timely manner.

12660

> 2549359074794261;12631:
> Sprint hurts strafing, map design, creates more uneven engagements, more running away and chasing, etc. while only give players the illusion of moving faster

I would disagree with this, seeings that you cant sprint and shoot when you engage strafing is not affected, map design is changed, uneven engagements? im not sure what you mean.

Halo 5 implements many things to disadvantage players in regards to “running away” shields not recharging until they have stopped sprinting, flinching and making the player stop sprinting when they are getting shot. Not being able to sprint also had draw backs like you could shoot them from a distance but they may move back into cover and you would be to far away to get them.

Both systems arent perfect and are merely limitations.

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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sprint killed Halo. Absolutely killed it. Game cannot hold a population at all ever since sprint was introduced. It just doesn’t fit and it fundamentally alters the game.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Game absolutely cannot hold a population since the elites changed design, since the DMR was introduced, since the magnum had a scope reintroduced, so are those reason’s for Halo’s fall as well?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just saying sprint is the reason is pure speculation.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > None of those things fundementally changed gameplay and map design.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Either way. Its still speculation. There’s no hard evidence of sprint being the cause of Halo’s decline
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There’s no evidence saying it isn’t.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you look at the sales for halo reach they are the second highest in the franchise, and someone posted the stats for how long reachs population lasted which was the 2nd or 3rd longest in the series. Reach had sprint and i could argue that it was successful as a halo game. There are many reasons why halo is no longer selling 9 million plus copies one being that the FPS genre has shifted, the gaming market has changed by being more competitive, the xbox one not selling as many copies and sprint may play a factor in their sale numbers. Sprint is part of the sales problem but is not the main reason for low sales.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Reach dropped to 7th place on the xbl charts a couple months after release. It took a nose dive. Being 3rd means little when HCE had no online and h3/3 are miles ahead of everything else. Reach sold well off the coattails of h3.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Competition has hardly raised. The xb1 is outselling the 360. The xb1 does have RROD. The attach rate to xbl is higher than ever.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You’re are factually incorrect on practically every point you made.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you made no reference to how your numbers affected sprint which was the premise of my point. Here are a couple of facts, reach’s population had 400,000 minimum playing until 2012. Thats two years after its release date. You mentioned that reach dropped to 7th place on xbl. I would argue that that doesnt mean much considering the population was still high and if you compare reach’s numbers to halo 3 numbers of june a year after their release the population was very similar. I would also add that 7th place on the xbl doesnt mean much because in 2011 COD modern warfare 3 released selling over 14 million copies. This is would explain that drop to 7th place.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You said that competition has hardly changed, this couldn’t be more wrong. Any COD game sold before 2006 sold less than 3 million copies, while after this period it sold upwards of 5 million and as high as 14 million. Coincidentally 2006 is the same time COD brought in regenerative health which they got from halo. Combine those sell numbers with battlefield with it’s last two game 3, 4 which sold over 7 million in 2011 before this time they only sold around 2 million. This increase in sales of other games could mean that population for other games dont last as long. So my point is that competition has certainly changed for halo, other games have become successful.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And to say i was factually incorrect about reach being the 2nd best selling and 2nd best at holding the population was WRONG.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My point in the previous thread was that some people are saying that sprint is the cause of sell numbers, while i dont disagree with this (because obviously people dont like sprint which is apparent in the thread) it cannot be said that sell numbers are entirely due to sprint.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Where is your proof of these claims? I know that they are pretty much all incorrect so you’re going to have to prove it.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Franchises that have existed just as long or longer than halo growing is not increased competition. That is just halo starting to lose vs the same competition.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > population.pdf - Google Drive
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > and the game sales was from Vgcharts.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Did you even read it lol?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > It clearly states h2 had the best player retention, followed by 3.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Correct and i was never arguing that point. If i can paraphrase you from before “Sprint killed Halo. Absolutely killed it. Game cannot hold a population at all ever since sprint was introduced. It just doesn’t fit and it fundamentally alters the game”. Thats what you said, and that is what im replying to. I am arguing that sprint didnt kill halo and that there is a fundemental change in consumers for the console. And H2 did have the best player retention then H3 then reach thanks for making my point.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Look at my link provided above. Just before reach’s launch h3 was still holding million+ daily populations, 200,000 concurrent, and 2nd place on xbl charts. According to major Nelson h3 was xbl’s most played game in 07, 08 AND 09. This game faced off against MW2, BF, Fallout, etc, etc. All the same franchises reach did. Reach launched and within a matter of MONTHS halo’s population had halfed.
> > > > > > > > > > > You’re going to sit here and tell me that’s because of a “market shift”? The entire market shifted in a matter of months even though no new franchises were introduced?
> > > > > > > > > > > Riiiiiiiight
> > > >
> > > > You dont want a faster BMS because that is trying to appease people who like sprint, Halo 3 made there base movement slower compared to halo 2 many people didnt like that, especially pro players (MLG increased base movement to 110%). Just because you increase speed doesnt necessarily remove strategy either. "I don’t even want a faster BMS, that is simply a solution if sprint was removed to please the “sprint crowd” who wants to feel faster for no apparent reason." People want to move faster because it creates a quicker gameplay and yes you could make the maps smaller, but making maps smaller can have a diminishing return on gameplay. Speed in games is an illusion but how that illusion makes a person feel when playing the game is the most important part, so to say that people want sprint for no apparent reason is rediculus.
> > >
> > > No they did not.
> > > Halo 3’s movement speed is the same as in Halo 2 and Halo CE.
> > > MLG’s 10% increase in BMS was to slightly speed up the gameplay as well as making strafing better. If I recall, I did link to the second MLG Halo 3 Mode update where they said why, earlier in this thread.
> >
> > Halo BMS got slower every game after Halo CE. each slower than the last until Halo 5
>
> No. 1, 2 and 3 are the same. ODST, Reach and 4 were slower. H5G is faster.
> These are the speed values from the games (with proof videos, where I thought of taking one):
>
> HALO CE:
> 7m/s
>
> HALO 2:
> 7m/s
>
> HALO 2 ANNIVERSARY:
> 7.6m/s.
>
> HALO 3:
> 7m/s.
>
> ODST:
> 5.5m/s
>
> REACH:
> 6.85m/s (Base)
> 10.75m/s (Sprint)
>
> HALO 4:
> 6.6m/s (Base).
> 10.75m/s (Sprint)
>
> H5G:
> 8.3m/s (Base).
> 10.75m/s (Sprint)

Mmm yeah im not sure cause this shows halo 1 and 2 with similar speeds then halo 3 then halo reach.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFPg8jC3eEQ

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> > Sprint was part of halo 4 and 5, back in the old times we din’t have sprint since halo ce,halo 2 and halo 3 that recently released. all I’m saying is without sprint halo players can get killed real easily, especially when you attempt to take cover.
>
> I mean I think thats part of why I hate sprint. In the old halo games you stroll through the map always ready to fire, suddenly you get shot in the back, it was much easier (and smarter) to immediately break into a strafe and locate the player, cause one missed shot and level the playing field again. It also lead more players to be conscious of their flanks and surrounding as you had to stay near cover and couldn’t easily run away from a fight.
>
> Sprint not only makes the option to run away a much more successful strategy but the preferred one. You are running through the map trying to get to a decent position off your spawn, you’re shot in the back and you just keep running and quickly find and duck behind the nearest cover. Then the player spams nades, chases you, or gives up. To fight back is almost silly, you must first stop sprinting, then turn to find the enemy (and with the faster fire rate and 5 shot kill) you are probably down 2 shots to someone who could run away themselves if you turn the tables with a good strafe.
>
> I just think the sprint encourages running away instead of confrontation, removes necessary map awareness as cover is almost always moments from access, and just places more people in shot disadvantages than without it (even if you sprint into a room and see a guy first he could get the first shots on you because you were sprinting). You may argue that I should just stop sprinting or be far more cautious but with the map size, sprinting really is a necessity to transverse most maps in a timely manner.

Getting kills in halo is more than just whether a person can sprint or not, there are factors like proximity to cover, line of sight, time to kill. Just because a person got away or ran away doesnt mean its the result of sprint specifically. There are many different combat encounters with many variables as mentioned.

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> > > > Sprint shouldn’t be in Halo. Halo was better without it.
> > > > If Halo 6 doesn’t have Sprint I’m confident at least 90% of the players in favour of Sprint will adapt and prefer it.
> > >
> > > Nah, they can go play halo 4 or halo 5. After all, that seems to be what they say to those Vs sprint with a broken mcc that we should go back to.
> >
> > Dont play the im against you so go @#*% off thing, every person on this thread comments because they like halo and what it to be the most successful game and want every gamer to play HALO.
>
> Does it bother you that much? It’s just giving back to those whom share the mentality I showed in that response. Why do the people wanting a NEW halo game without sprint need to go back to mcc? My comment was at those saying it and there’s quite a bit. Do I really mean it? “No, you’re just the one that took it out of context.”
> **I didnt take it out of context cause thats what you said, how am i supposed to know when you mean something?**I can agree that everyone is pro halo in the end, still won’t stop people from saying someone’s view of progress is wrong and pro sprint really haven’t given justified reasons. Is sprint the sole culprit? No, and I’ve said that multiple times, "but there’s nothing saying it isn’t either" when sprint has been a constant in every game regressing instead of progressing and 343 haven’t even attempted a no sprint version just to see how it plays out.
>
> There are a couple of things that allow me to draw my conclusion such as the sell numbers of halo reach and 4, the population count in reach was quite healthy after 2 years of release (50,000 population base). If people were that disappointed then they would have stopped playing it similar to halo 4. This ones aimed at your absured assumption. Count how many people in this thread alone have said no to sprint. I can pull numbers out of my -Yoink- to you know. You don’t base feedback on the forums alone cuz I have friends for and vs sprint that don’t even use halowaypoint. Fact is no one has concrete info on everyone’s view of sprint, so it’s naive to make the assumption that thousands/hundred thousands/millions don’t complain on sprint when you’ve got nothing backing that up.
> The count from this forum would be around 100 people commenting, while that is purely speculation it is reasonable to assume based on how many new people comment on each page. True no body knows but again its reasonable to assume this based on previous sells of the game and lack of out cry from the community.