The sprint discussion thread

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> > If you were to create a halo game that was directly after halo 3 what would you bring in?
>
> Using H3 as a base model, I’d probably:
> - Increase the movement speed and FoV - Remove dual-wielding and re-evaluate the weapons that depended on the mechanic (in terms of balance and operation) - Alter the concept of Equipment by incorporating their effects into weapons/grenades (ex. Grav Lift added as secondary attack for Grav Hammer) - Further re-evaluate weapons’ behavior and balance (I’d probably ditch the Carbine in favor of a Needle Rifle with its supercombine creating a damaging AoE) - Have variants of weapons (ex. Plasma Pistol variants like Void’s Tear and Brute Plasma Pistol from SPV3 mod) - Remove Spike and Incendiary grenades, add a concussion grenade (small damage but better launching power than Frags or Plasmas) and either a Grav or Smoke grenade - Play around with dynamic map design (Campaign & multiplayer). Changing gravity, more moving platforms, etc.Going off on a bit of a tangent… Suffice to say that plenty could be done going forward without senselessly following popular/generic FPS trends.

One of the best thought out processes for a halo game, i agree with most increased movement or FOV would be good. balancing the weapons.

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> > > H3a would be a good start, but remasters don’t bring in nearly as much attention or sales as a new game.
> >
> > Indeed they don’t
> >
> > Which speaks volumes that Halo 5 only sold 2 million more than the anniversaries of H1/2 and Half of what Reach sold, and a third of what Halo 3 sold
>
> Halo 4 sold over 9 million copies same with reach these games both have sprint in them, how do you explain these sales. Halo 5 didnt have very good sale numbers but there could be many reasons for that.

Reach: Bungie’s last Halo. Riding on the Halo 3 name. Redeeming qualities in terms of content and Customs.

Halo 4: Riding on the Halo brand. New developer who made promising updates to Halo: Reach in order to try to fix some things players saw as gameplay issues, such as Bloom. Talk about return to roots.

Halo 5: Sour taste after Halo 4 with it’s gameplay along with misleading comments and continued dropping-of-the-ball on numerous occasions.

There are some speculative reasons. I’d say those are atleast partially true.

Now then, let’s see how Halo 6 fairs when Halo 5 had quite the misleading advertisement and what many, including me, saw as lack of content on launch.

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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sprint killed Halo. Absolutely killed it. Game cannot hold a population at all ever since sprint was introduced. It just doesn’t fit and it fundamentally alters the game.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Game absolutely cannot hold a population since the elites changed design, since the DMR was introduced, since the magnum had a scope reintroduced, so are those reason’s for Halo’s fall as well?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just saying sprint is the reason is pure speculation.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > None of those things fundementally changed gameplay and map design.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Either way. Its still speculation. There’s no hard evidence of sprint being the cause of Halo’s decline
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There’s no evidence saying it isn’t.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you look at the sales for halo reach they are the second highest in the franchise, and someone posted the stats for how long reachs population lasted which was the 2nd or 3rd longest in the series. Reach had sprint and i could argue that it was successful as a halo game. There are many reasons why halo is no longer selling 9 million plus copies one being that the FPS genre has shifted, the gaming market has changed by being more competitive, the xbox one not selling as many copies and sprint may play a factor in their sale numbers. Sprint is part of the sales problem but is not the main reason for low sales.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Reach dropped to 7th place on the xbl charts a couple months after release. It took a nose dive. Being 3rd means little when HCE had no online and h3/3 are miles ahead of everything else. Reach sold well off the coattails of h3.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Competition has hardly raised. The xb1 is outselling the 360. The xb1 does have RROD. The attach rate to xbl is higher than ever.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > You’re are factually incorrect on practically every point you made.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > So you made no reference to how your numbers affected sprint which was the premise of my point. Here are a couple of facts, reach’s population had 400,000 minimum playing until 2012. Thats two years after its release date. You mentioned that reach dropped to 7th place on xbl. I would argue that that doesnt mean much considering the population was still high and if you compare reach’s numbers to halo 3 numbers of june a year after their release the population was very similar. I would also add that 7th place on the xbl doesnt mean much because in 2011 COD modern warfare 3 released selling over 14 million copies. This is would explain that drop to 7th place.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > You said that competition has hardly changed, this couldn’t be more wrong. Any COD game sold before 2006 sold less than 3 million copies, while after this period it sold upwards of 5 million and as high as 14 million. Coincidentally 2006 is the same time COD brought in regenerative health which they got from halo. Combine those sell numbers with battlefield with it’s last two game 3, 4 which sold over 7 million in 2011 before this time they only sold around 2 million. This increase in sales of other games could mean that population for other games dont last as long. So my point is that competition has certainly changed for halo, other games have become successful.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > And to say i was factually incorrect about reach being the 2nd best selling and 2nd best at holding the population was WRONG.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > My point in the previous thread was that some people are saying that sprint is the cause of sell numbers, while i dont disagree with this (because obviously people dont like sprint which is apparent in the thread) it cannot be said that sell numbers are entirely due to sprint.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Where is your proof of these claims? I know that they are pretty much all incorrect so you’re going to have to prove it.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Franchises that have existed just as long or longer than halo growing is not increased competition. That is just halo starting to lose vs the same competition.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > population.pdf - Google Drive
> > > > > > > > > > and the game sales was from Vgcharts.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Did you even read it lol?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > It clearly states h2 had the best player retention, followed by 3.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Correct and i was never arguing that point. If i can paraphrase you from before “Sprint killed Halo. Absolutely killed it. Game cannot hold a population at all ever since sprint was introduced. It just doesn’t fit and it fundamentally alters the game”. Thats what you said, and that is what im replying to. I am arguing that sprint didnt kill halo and that there is a fundemental change in consumers for the console. And H2 did have the best player retention then H3 then reach thanks for making my point.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Look at my link provided above. Just before reach’s launch h3 was still holding million+ daily populations, 200,000 concurrent, and 2nd place on xbl charts. According to major Nelson h3 was xbl’s most played game in 07, 08 AND 09. This game faced off against MW2, BF, Fallout, etc, etc. All the same franchises reach did. Reach launched and within a matter of MONTHS halo’s population had halfed.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You’re going to sit here and tell me that’s because of a “market shift”? The entire market shifted in a matter of months even though no new franchises were introduced?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Riiiiiiiight
>
> I never said “millions of people are complaining about sprint”
> YOU said “millions of people” in your OP.
>
> When I say “original fanbase” I don’t mean the people who have accepted the new mechanics. I mean the side of the community who wants classic gameplay. I don’t even want a faster BMS, that is simply a solution if sprint was removed to please the “sprint crowd” who wants to feel faster for no apparent reason.
> I would not be wrong in saying sprint killed Halo. It disrupted the game’s core, along with other factors too.
> If you play Halo 3 for instance, consider being dropped into the Black Ops 3 game, and see how long you play the game. You would realize that these mechanics make the game unrecognizable to Halo 3. Which discourages you to play the new game. Instead of accepting these new mechanics, or justifying them in any way, they just aren’t Halo, and to argue that this is what Halo is now, is absurd.
>
> I could give you an apple and tell you it’s an orange, but it is still an apple. I could say, yes it is different, but it is still fruit. Does that mean you’re okay with it if you don’t like apples? NO. You want your damn orange.

Exaclty millions of people arent complaining about sprint, not even hundred of thousands not even thousands its less than 100 from what i can see on this thread, and you would be wrong in saying sprint killed halo because like my previous statement not that many people cared about sprint changing. There are many things that can affect gameplay to say that sprint is just a negative gameplay mechanic is absurd halo 3 brought in equipment while some were good they did have problems however i wouldnt say they killed gameplay.

You dont want a faster BMS because that is trying to appease people who like sprint, Halo 3 made there base movement slower compared to halo 2 many people didnt like that, especially pro players (MLG increased base movement to 110%). Just because you increase speed doesnt necessarily remove strategy either. "I don’t even want a faster BMS, that is simply a solution if sprint was removed to please the “sprint crowd” who wants to feel faster for no apparent reason." People want to move faster because it creates a quicker gameplay and yes you could make the maps smaller, but making maps smaller can have a diminishing return on gameplay. Speed in games is an illusion but how that illusion makes a person feel when playing the game is the most important part, so to say that people want sprint for no apparent reason is rediculus.

I only see the same people against sprint in this thread.

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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sprint killed Halo. Absolutely killed it. Game cannot hold a population at all ever since sprint was introduced. It just doesn’t fit and it fundamentally alters the game.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Game absolutely cannot hold a population since the elites changed design, since the DMR was introduced, since the magnum had a scope reintroduced, so are those reason’s for Halo’s fall as well?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just saying sprint is the reason is pure speculation.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > None of those things fundementally changed gameplay and map design.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Either way. Its still speculation. There’s no hard evidence of sprint being the cause of Halo’s decline
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There’s no evidence saying it isn’t.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you look at the sales for halo reach they are the second highest in the franchise, and someone posted the stats for how long reachs population lasted which was the 2nd or 3rd longest in the series. Reach had sprint and i could argue that it was successful as a halo game. There are many reasons why halo is no longer selling 9 million plus copies one being that the FPS genre has shifted, the gaming market has changed by being more competitive, the xbox one not selling as many copies and sprint may play a factor in their sale numbers. Sprint is part of the sales problem but is not the main reason for low sales.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Reach dropped to 7th place on the xbl charts a couple months after release. It took a nose dive. Being 3rd means little when HCE had no online and h3/3 are miles ahead of everything else. Reach sold well off the coattails of h3.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Competition has hardly raised. The xb1 is outselling the 360. The xb1 does have RROD. The attach rate to xbl is higher than ever.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > You’re are factually incorrect on practically every point you made.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > So you made no reference to how your numbers affected sprint which was the premise of my point. Here are a couple of facts, reach’s population had 400,000 minimum playing until 2012. Thats two years after its release date. You mentioned that reach dropped to 7th place on xbl. I would argue that that doesnt mean much considering the population was still high and if you compare reach’s numbers to halo 3 numbers of june a year after their release the population was very similar. I would also add that 7th place on the xbl doesnt mean much because in 2011 COD modern warfare 3 released selling over 14 million copies. This is would explain that drop to 7th place.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > You said that competition has hardly changed, this couldn’t be more wrong. Any COD game sold before 2006 sold less than 3 million copies, while after this period it sold upwards of 5 million and as high as 14 million. Coincidentally 2006 is the same time COD brought in regenerative health which they got from halo. Combine those sell numbers with battlefield with it’s last two game 3, 4 which sold over 7 million in 2011 before this time they only sold around 2 million. This increase in sales of other games could mean that population for other games dont last as long. So my point is that competition has certainly changed for halo, other games have become successful.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > And to say i was factually incorrect about reach being the 2nd best selling and 2nd best at holding the population was WRONG.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > My point in the previous thread was that some people are saying that sprint is the cause of sell numbers, while i dont disagree with this (because obviously people dont like sprint which is apparent in the thread) it cannot be said that sell numbers are entirely due to sprint.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Where is your proof of these claims? I know that they are pretty much all incorrect so you’re going to have to prove it.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Franchises that have existed just as long or longer than halo growing is not increased competition. That is just halo starting to lose vs the same competition.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > population.pdf - Google Drive
> > > > > > > > > > > and the game sales was from Vgcharts.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Did you even read it lol?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > It clearly states h2 had the best player retention, followed by 3.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Correct and i was never arguing that point. If i can paraphrase you from before “Sprint killed Halo. Absolutely killed it. Game cannot hold a population at all ever since sprint was introduced. It just doesn’t fit and it fundamentally alters the game”. Thats what you said, and that is what im replying to. I am arguing that sprint didnt kill halo and that there is a fundemental change in consumers for the console. And H2 did have the best player retention then H3 then reach thanks for making my point.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Look at my link provided above. Just before reach’s launch h3 was still holding million+ daily populations, 200,000 concurrent, and 2nd place on xbl charts. According to major Nelson h3 was xbl’s most played game in 07, 08 AND 09. This game faced off against MW2, BF, Fallout, etc, etc. All the same franchises reach did. Reach launched and within a matter of MONTHS halo’s population had halfed.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > You’re going to sit here and tell me that’s because of a “market shift”? The entire market shifted in a matter of months even though no new franchises were introduced?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Riiiiiiiight
>
> You dont want a faster BMS because that is trying to appease people who like sprint, Halo 3 made there base movement slower compared to halo 2 many people didnt like that, especially pro players (MLG increased base movement to 110%). Just because you increase speed doesnt necessarily remove strategy either. "I don’t even want a faster BMS, that is simply a solution if sprint was removed to please the “sprint crowd” who wants to feel faster for no apparent reason." People want to move faster because it creates a quicker gameplay and yes you could make the maps smaller, but making maps smaller can have a diminishing return on gameplay. Speed in games is an illusion but how that illusion makes a person feel when playing the game is the most important part, so to say that people want sprint for no apparent reason is rediculus.

No they did not.
Halo 3’s movement speed is the same as in Halo 2 and Halo CE.

MLG’s 10% increase in BMS was to slightly speed up the gameplay as well as making strafing better. If I recall, I did link to the second MLG Halo 3 Mode update where they said why, earlier in this thread.

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> > > > H3a would be a good start, but remasters don’t bring in nearly as much attention or sales as a new game.
> > >
> > > Indeed they don’t
> > >
> > > Which speaks volumes that Halo 5 only sold 2 million more than the anniversaries of H1/2 and Half of what Reach sold, and a third of what Halo 3 sold
> >
> > Halo 4 sold over 9 million copies same with reach these games both have sprint in them, how do you explain these sales. Halo 5 didnt have very good sale numbers but there could be many reasons for that.
>
> Reach: Bungie’s last Halo. Riding on the Halo 3 name. Redeeming qualities in terms of content and Customs.
>
> Halo 4: Riding on the Halo brand. New developer who made promising updates to Halo: Reach in order to try to fix some things players saw as gameplay issues, such as Bloom. Talk about return to roots.
>
> Halo 5: Sour taste after Halo 4 with it’s gameplay along with misleading comments and continued dropping-of-the-ball on numerous occasions.
>
> There are some speculative reasons. I’d say those are atleast partially true.
>
> Now then, let’s see how Halo 6 fairs when Halo 5 had quite the misleading advertisement and what many, including me, saw as lack of content on launch.

I am not defending the lack of content for halo 5 nor the misleading advertisement for halo 5, i remember listening to hunt the truth and loving it and wondering what was in store for the chief, unfortunately i was disappoint.

None the less the sells of 9 million copies and a population that was sustained for 2 years over 50,000 is impressive (reach). Halo 4 definitely dropped the ball however it is difficult to say why halo isnt reaching 10 million sells, sprint is partially due to that but not the sole reason.

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> > > > > H3a would be a good start, but remasters don’t bring in nearly as much attention or sales as a new game.
> > > >
> > > > Indeed they don’t
> > > >
> > > > Which speaks volumes that Halo 5 only sold 2 million more than the anniversaries of H1/2 and Half of what Reach sold, and a third of what Halo 3 sold
> >
> > Reach: Bungie’s last Halo. Riding on the Halo 3 name. Redeeming qualities in terms of content and Customs.
> >
> > Halo 4: Riding on the Halo brand. New developer who made promising updates to Halo: Reach in order to try to fix some things players saw as gameplay issues, such as Bloom. Talk about return to roots.
> >
> > Halo 5: Sour taste after Halo 4 with it’s gameplay along with misleading comments and continued dropping-of-the-ball on numerous occasions.
> >
> > There are some speculative reasons. I’d say those are atleast partially true.
> >
> > Now then, let’s see how Halo 6 fairs when Halo 5 had quite the misleading advertisement and what many, including me, saw as lack of content on launch.
>
> I am not defending the lack of content for halo 5 nor the misleading advertisement for halo 5, i remember listening to hunt the truth and loving it and wondering what was in store for the chief, unfortunately i was disappoint.
>
> None the less the sells of 9 million copies and a population that was sustained for 2 years over 50,000 is impressive (reach). Halo 4 definitely dropped the ball however it is difficult to say why halo isnt reaching 10 million sells, sprint is partially due to that but not the sole reason.

I’m certainly not saying sprint is the sole reason, neother that you’re defending anything, I’m offering speculative reasons as to why sales are what they are.

It’s not actually difficult to understand why Halo is not reaching the massive number of sales anymore if you start thinking about how the franchise has been treated in terms of the games and then the surrounding drama.

Pre Halo 4:
-Lots of misleading comments regarding the game
-Made Proto-Halo which played like previous Halos and then scrapped it to start on Halo 4.
-“They’re not perks, but Armor Upgrades”
-Hired people who love Halo (Continued)

Post Halo 4 Launch:
-Wheelchair spartan
-First DLC release major screw up, horrible horrible damage control. I can’t stress this one enough how obvious it was to the community that something went wrong, and they still came out with a massive lie straight to our faces.
-Halo 4 Championship, where if I recall correctly, none of the XBL rules applied and banning could be random. I never saw any confirmation that the SpOps prize was ever awarded and didn’t see any part in the Campaign which would have been a SpOps winner Cameo, not an obvious one. It was probably that much of a mess.
-Modders make Sprint-less version of Halo 4. i343 is asked if it could be implemented. No it couldn’t, it’s modded. Few months later we get Lightning Flag.
-Hired people who dislike parts of Halo. Well they apparently hired both types but the latter seemed to get more of a say, not to mention it’s taken quite out of context and blown to huge proportions.
-Game itself is more or less CoD-ified.

Halo MCC
-Released broken

Pre Halo 5:
-Talk about the roots again
-Nice campaign marketing

Post Halo 5 launch:
-Campaign, don’t need to say more
-Lacking content
-Aiming issues
-No split screen
-Severely restricted custom games options
-Frankie pretty much insults lore people
-BTB no developer maps
-It’s a new engine they said, then they talked about so called “Legacy codes” and not being able to update all older game modes to the new version.
-And loads more.

See, to many, i343 doesn’t seem to care about what they’re doing, or the consequences. They seem to have a very conflicting and contradictory nature. The best description I have:

From somewhere it is stated that i343 does not do what the players want, yet sprint is there because the general gamer expects it.

The Halo 5 beta had “flinch”, or rather an animation of it. This is pure “conspiracy theory”, but what are the odds that your characters performs a Flinch animation after getting hit due to a glitch? When we in the previous game had flinch and we then in the Survey gets asked what we prefer, flinch or descope? I’m fairly sure Flinch is in Halo 5 but disabled, so chances are it would have been enabled if people had voted for Flinch.

All of that isn’t even everything, there’s a lot more about their practices. They’re far from the worst developers out there, but they sure aren’t on my good side.

Sprint hurts strafing, map design, creates more uneven engagements, more running away and chasing, etc. while only give players the illusion of moving faster

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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2535429794399531;12240:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sprint killed Halo. Absolutely killed it. Game cannot hold a population at all ever since sprint was introduced. It just doesn’t fit and it fundamentally alters the game.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Game absolutely cannot hold a population since the elites changed design, since the DMR was introduced, since the magnum had a scope reintroduced, so are those reason’s for Halo’s fall as well?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just saying sprint is the reason is pure speculation.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > None of those things fundementally changed gameplay and map design.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Either way. Its still speculation. There’s no hard evidence of sprint being the cause of Halo’s decline
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There’s no evidence saying it isn’t.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you look at the sales for halo reach they are the second highest in the franchise, and someone posted the stats for how long reachs population lasted which was the 2nd or 3rd longest in the series. Reach had sprint and i could argue that it was successful as a halo game. There are many reasons why halo is no longer selling 9 million plus copies one being that the FPS genre has shifted, the gaming market has changed by being more competitive, the xbox one not selling as many copies and sprint may play a factor in their sale numbers. Sprint is part of the sales problem but is not the main reason for low sales.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Reach dropped to 7th place on the xbl charts a couple months after release. It took a nose dive. Being 3rd means little when HCE had no online and h3/3 are miles ahead of everything else. Reach sold well off the coattails of h3.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Competition has hardly raised. The xb1 is outselling the 360. The xb1 does have RROD. The attach rate to xbl is higher than ever.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You’re are factually incorrect on practically every point you made.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you made no reference to how your numbers affected sprint which was the premise of my point. Here are a couple of facts, reach’s population had 400,000 minimum playing until 2012. Thats two years after its release date. You mentioned that reach dropped to 7th place on xbl. I would argue that that doesnt mean much considering the population was still high and if you compare reach’s numbers to halo 3 numbers of june a year after their release the population was very similar. I would also add that 7th place on the xbl doesnt mean much because in 2011 COD modern warfare 3 released selling over 14 million copies. This is would explain that drop to 7th place.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > You said that competition has hardly changed, this couldn’t be more wrong. Any COD game sold before 2006 sold less than 3 million copies, while after this period it sold upwards of 5 million and as high as 14 million. Coincidentally 2006 is the same time COD brought in regenerative health which they got from halo. Combine those sell numbers with battlefield with it’s last two game 3, 4 which sold over 7 million in 2011 before this time they only sold around 2 million. This increase in sales of other games could mean that population for other games dont last as long. So my point is that competition has certainly changed for halo, other games have become successful.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > And to say i was factually incorrect about reach being the 2nd best selling and 2nd best at holding the population was WRONG.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > My point in the previous thread was that some people are saying that sprint is the cause of sell numbers, while i dont disagree with this (because obviously people dont like sprint which is apparent in the thread) it cannot be said that sell numbers are entirely due to sprint.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Where is your proof of these claims? I know that they are pretty much all incorrect so you’re going to have to prove it.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Franchises that have existed just as long or longer than halo growing is not increased competition. That is just halo starting to lose vs the same competition.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > population.pdf - Google Drive
> > > > > > > > > > > > and the game sales was from Vgcharts.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Did you even read it lol?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > It clearly states h2 had the best player retention, followed by 3.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Correct and i was never arguing that point. If i can paraphrase you from before “Sprint killed Halo. Absolutely killed it. Game cannot hold a population at all ever since sprint was introduced. It just doesn’t fit and it fundamentally alters the game”. Thats what you said, and that is what im replying to. I am arguing that sprint didnt kill halo and that there is a fundemental change in consumers for the console. And H2 did have the best player retention then H3 then reach thanks for making my point.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Look at my link provided above. Just before reach’s launch h3 was still holding million+ daily populations, 200,000 concurrent, and 2nd place on xbl charts. According to major Nelson h3 was xbl’s most played game in 07, 08 AND 09. This game faced off against MW2, BF, Fallout, etc, etc. All the same franchises reach did. Reach launched and within a matter of MONTHS halo’s population had halfed.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > You’re going to sit here and tell me that’s because of a “market shift”? The entire market shifted in a matter of months even though no new franchises were introduced?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Riiiiiiiight
> >
> > You dont want a faster BMS because that is trying to appease people who like sprint, Halo 3 made there base movement slower compared to halo 2 many people didnt like that, especially pro players (MLG increased base movement to 110%). Just because you increase speed doesnt necessarily remove strategy either. "I don’t even want a faster BMS, that is simply a solution if sprint was removed to please the “sprint crowd” who wants to feel faster for no apparent reason." People want to move faster because it creates a quicker gameplay and yes you could make the maps smaller, but making maps smaller can have a diminishing return on gameplay. Speed in games is an illusion but how that illusion makes a person feel when playing the game is the most important part, so to say that people want sprint for no apparent reason is rediculus.
>
> No they did not.
> Halo 3’s movement speed is the same as in Halo 2 and Halo CE.
>
> MLG’s 10% increase in BMS was to slightly speed up the gameplay as well as making strafing better. If I recall, I did link to the second MLG Halo 3 Mode update where they said why, earlier in this thread.

Halo BMS got slower every game after Halo CE. each slower than the last until Halo 5

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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2535429794399531;12240:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sprint killed Halo. Absolutely killed it. Game cannot hold a population at all ever since sprint was introduced. It just doesn’t fit and it fundamentally alters the game.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Game absolutely cannot hold a population since the elites changed design, since the DMR was introduced, since the magnum had a scope reintroduced, so are those reason’s for Halo’s fall as well?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just saying sprint is the reason is pure speculation.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > None of those things fundementally changed gameplay and map design.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Either way. Its still speculation. There’s no hard evidence of sprint being the cause of Halo’s decline
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There’s no evidence saying it isn’t.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you look at the sales for halo reach they are the second highest in the franchise, and someone posted the stats for how long reachs population lasted which was the 2nd or 3rd longest in the series. Reach had sprint and i could argue that it was successful as a halo game. There are many reasons why halo is no longer selling 9 million plus copies one being that the FPS genre has shifted, the gaming market has changed by being more competitive, the xbox one not selling as many copies and sprint may play a factor in their sale numbers. Sprint is part of the sales problem but is not the main reason for low sales.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Reach dropped to 7th place on the xbl charts a couple months after release. It took a nose dive. Being 3rd means little when HCE had no online and h3/3 are miles ahead of everything else. Reach sold well off the coattails of h3.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Competition has hardly raised. The xb1 is outselling the 360. The xb1 does have RROD. The attach rate to xbl is higher than ever.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You’re are factually incorrect on practically every point you made.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you made no reference to how your numbers affected sprint which was the premise of my point. Here are a couple of facts, reach’s population had 400,000 minimum playing until 2012. Thats two years after its release date. You mentioned that reach dropped to 7th place on xbl. I would argue that that doesnt mean much considering the population was still high and if you compare reach’s numbers to halo 3 numbers of june a year after their release the population was very similar. I would also add that 7th place on the xbl doesnt mean much because in 2011 COD modern warfare 3 released selling over 14 million copies. This is would explain that drop to 7th place.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You said that competition has hardly changed, this couldn’t be more wrong. Any COD game sold before 2006 sold less than 3 million copies, while after this period it sold upwards of 5 million and as high as 14 million. Coincidentally 2006 is the same time COD brought in regenerative health which they got from halo. Combine those sell numbers with battlefield with it’s last two game 3, 4 which sold over 7 million in 2011 before this time they only sold around 2 million. This increase in sales of other games could mean that population for other games dont last as long. So my point is that competition has certainly changed for halo, other games have become successful.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And to say i was factually incorrect about reach being the 2nd best selling and 2nd best at holding the population was WRONG.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My point in the previous thread was that some people are saying that sprint is the cause of sell numbers, while i dont disagree with this (because obviously people dont like sprint which is apparent in the thread) it cannot be said that sell numbers are entirely due to sprint.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Where is your proof of these claims? I know that they are pretty much all incorrect so you’re going to have to prove it.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Franchises that have existed just as long or longer than halo growing is not increased competition. That is just halo starting to lose vs the same competition.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > population.pdf - Google Drive
> > > > > > > > > > > > > and the game sales was from Vgcharts.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Did you even read it lol?
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > It clearly states h2 had the best player retention, followed by 3.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Correct and i was never arguing that point. If i can paraphrase you from before “Sprint killed Halo. Absolutely killed it. Game cannot hold a population at all ever since sprint was introduced. It just doesn’t fit and it fundamentally alters the game”. Thats what you said, and that is what im replying to. I am arguing that sprint didnt kill halo and that there is a fundemental change in consumers for the console. And H2 did have the best player retention then H3 then reach thanks for making my point.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Look at my link provided above. Just before reach’s launch h3 was still holding million+ daily populations, 200,000 concurrent, and 2nd place on xbl charts. According to major Nelson h3 was xbl’s most played game in 07, 08 AND 09. This game faced off against MW2, BF, Fallout, etc, etc. All the same franchises reach did. Reach launched and within a matter of MONTHS halo’s population had halfed.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > You’re going to sit here and tell me that’s because of a “market shift”? The entire market shifted in a matter of months even though no new franchises were introduced?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Riiiiiiiight
> > >
> > > You dont want a faster BMS because that is trying to appease people who like sprint, Halo 3 made there base movement slower compared to halo 2 many people didnt like that, especially pro players (MLG increased base movement to 110%). Just because you increase speed doesnt necessarily remove strategy either. "I don’t even want a faster BMS, that is simply a solution if sprint was removed to please the “sprint crowd” who wants to feel faster for no apparent reason." People want to move faster because it creates a quicker gameplay and yes you could make the maps smaller, but making maps smaller can have a diminishing return on gameplay. Speed in games is an illusion but how that illusion makes a person feel when playing the game is the most important part, so to say that people want sprint for no apparent reason is rediculus.
> >
> > No they did not.
> > Halo 3’s movement speed is the same as in Halo 2 and Halo CE.
> >
> > MLG’s 10% increase in BMS was to slightly speed up the gameplay as well as making strafing better. If I recall, I did link to the second MLG Halo 3 Mode update where they said why, earlier in this thread.
>
> Halo BMS got slower every game after Halo CE. each slower than the last until Halo 5

No, not at all. Reach was the first Halo to have a slower BMS.

Look up “Halo speed comparison” on youtube, I’d link it but I’m on a phone and linking on it is bothersome.
Then there are pictures, or have been, of screenshots from programs that have extracted gameplay data values straight from the games, think they’re called Hex-editors. Either way, Halo CE to Halo 3 all had BMS of 2.25.

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> > > > > > H3a would be a good start, but remasters don’t bring in nearly as much attention or sales as a new game.
> > > > >
> > > > > Indeed they don’t
> > > > >
> > > > > Which speaks volumes that Halo 5 only sold 2 million more than the anniversaries of H1/2 and Half of what Reach sold, and a third of what Halo 3 sold
>
> Halo MCC
> -Released broken
>
> Post Halo 5 launch:
> -Campaign, don’t need to say more
> -Lacking content
> -Aiming issues
> -No split screen
> -Severely restricted custom games options
> -Frankie pretty much insults lore people
> -BTB no developer maps
> -It’s a new engine they said, then they talked about so called “Legacy codes” and not being able to update all older game modes to the new version.
> -And loads more.
>
> See, to many, i343 doesn’t seem to care about what they’re doing, or the consequences. They seem to have a very conflicting and contradictory nature.

Another example of these odd nature of 343i is the lack of offline or LAN modes. Players want LAN, players want offline. Not only that but they set up their own Halo Tournament and even pushed Halo 5 as a MLG style game. But they have removed offline modes because 343i and MS have pushed ahead with this microtransaction and cloud vision.

The end result was cancelled and delayed tournaments because trying to run an event that highly benefits from a closed local system and running it on XBL and MS servers miles away was shockingly stupid. Tournaments require the stability and speeds that only LAN can provide.

Yet 343i and MS thought they could get away with this. Someone thought this was a good idea and no one stopped them at either company to point out the problems with this (either that or they were shot down and over-ruled). To me, 343i and MS have loads of ideas for Halo, but they just can’t seem to focus these ideas, taking what works and stripping out what doesn’t. They have vision for Halo, but it’s not a clear vision. It’s muddled by crazy ideas, modern features, MS’ desires for the xbox platform, and an apparent lack of understanding about hardware limitations and deadline/schedule management.

> 2533274866652866;12623:
> Halo 4 sold over 9 million copies same with reach these games both have sprint in them, how do you explain these sales. Halo 5 didnt have very good sale numbers but there could be many reasons for that.

I didn’t know how bad Reach was going to be before I played it. At that time, I couldn’t even fathom the idea of a bad Halo game. “Halo” and “bad” were two polar opposites to me.
For Halo 4 I already was skeptical from the get-go. But 343 was a new developer and they fooled me with their “trust us” statements, so I gave them the chance to prove me wrong.
They didn’t.
So for H5G, I no longer gave them the same benefit of the doubt that I did with Halo 4.

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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sprint killed Halo. Absolutely killed it. Game cannot hold a population at all ever since sprint was introduced. It just doesn’t fit and it fundamentally alters the game.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Game absolutely cannot hold a population since the elites changed design, since the DMR was introduced, since the magnum had a scope reintroduced, so are those reason’s for Halo’s fall as well?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just saying sprint is the reason is pure speculation.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > None of those things fundementally changed gameplay and map design.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Either way. Its still speculation. There’s no hard evidence of sprint being the cause of Halo’s decline
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > There’s no evidence saying it isn’t.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you look at the sales for halo reach they are the second highest in the franchise, and someone posted the stats for how long reachs population lasted which was the 2nd or 3rd longest in the series. Reach had sprint and i could argue that it was successful as a halo game. There are many reasons why halo is no longer selling 9 million plus copies one being that the FPS genre has shifted, the gaming market has changed by being more competitive, the xbox one not selling as many copies and sprint may play a factor in their sale numbers. Sprint is part of the sales problem but is not the main reason for low sales.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Reach dropped to 7th place on the xbl charts a couple months after release. It took a nose dive. Being 3rd means little when HCE had no online and h3/3 are miles ahead of everything else. Reach sold well off the coattails of h3.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Competition has hardly raised. The xb1 is outselling the 360. The xb1 does have RROD. The attach rate to xbl is higher than ever.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You’re are factually incorrect on practically every point you made.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So you made no reference to how your numbers affected sprint which was the premise of my point. Here are a couple of facts, reach’s population had 400,000 minimum playing until 2012. Thats two years after its release date. You mentioned that reach dropped to 7th place on xbl. I would argue that that doesnt mean much considering the population was still high and if you compare reach’s numbers to halo 3 numbers of june a year after their release the population was very similar. I would also add that 7th place on the xbl doesnt mean much because in 2011 COD modern warfare 3 released selling over 14 million copies. This is would explain that drop to 7th place.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You said that competition has hardly changed, this couldn’t be more wrong. Any COD game sold before 2006 sold less than 3 million copies, while after this period it sold upwards of 5 million and as high as 14 million. Coincidentally 2006 is the same time COD brought in regenerative health which they got from halo. Combine those sell numbers with battlefield with it’s last two game 3, 4 which sold over 7 million in 2011 before this time they only sold around 2 million. This increase in sales of other games could mean that population for other games dont last as long. So my point is that competition has certainly changed for halo, other games have become successful.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And to say i was factually incorrect about reach being the 2nd best selling and 2nd best at holding the population was WRONG.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My point in the previous thread was that some people are saying that sprint is the cause of sell numbers, while i dont disagree with this (because obviously people dont like sprint which is apparent in the thread) it cannot be said that sell numbers are entirely due to sprint.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Where is your proof of these claims? I know that they are pretty much all incorrect so you’re going to have to prove it.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Franchises that have existed just as long or longer than halo growing is not increased competition. That is just halo starting to lose vs the same competition.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > population.pdf - Google Drive
> > > > > > > > > > > > > and the game sales was from Vgcharts.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Did you even read it lol?
> > > > > > > > > > > > It clearly states h2 had the best player retention, followed by 3.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Correct and i was never arguing that point. If i can paraphrase you from before “Sprint killed Halo. Absolutely killed it. Game cannot hold a population at all ever since sprint was introduced. It just doesn’t fit and it fundamentally alters the game”. Thats what you said, and that is what im replying to. I am arguing that sprint didnt kill halo and that there is a fundemental change in consumers for the console. And H2 did have the best player retention then H3 then reach thanks for making my point.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Look at my link provided above. Just before reach’s launch h3 was still holding million+ daily populations, 200,000 concurrent, and 2nd place on xbl charts. According to major Nelson h3 was xbl’s most played game in 07, 08 AND 09. This game faced off against MW2, BF, Fallout, etc, etc. All the same franchises reach did. Reach launched and within a matter of MONTHS halo’s population had halfed.
> > > > > > > > > > You’re going to sit here and tell me that’s because of a “market shift”? The entire market shifted in a matter of months even though no new franchises were introduced?
> > > > > > > > > > Riiiiiiiight
> > >
> > > You dont want a faster BMS because that is trying to appease people who like sprint, Halo 3 made there base movement slower compared to halo 2 many people didnt like that, especially pro players (MLG increased base movement to 110%). Just because you increase speed doesnt necessarily remove strategy either. "I don’t even want a faster BMS, that is simply a solution if sprint was removed to please the “sprint crowd” who wants to feel faster for no apparent reason." People want to move faster because it creates a quicker gameplay and yes you could make the maps smaller, but making maps smaller can have a diminishing return on gameplay. Speed in games is an illusion but how that illusion makes a person feel when playing the game is the most important part, so to say that people want sprint for no apparent reason is rediculus.
> >
> > No they did not.
> > Halo 3’s movement speed is the same as in Halo 2 and Halo CE.
> > MLG’s 10% increase in BMS was to slightly speed up the gameplay as well as making strafing better. If I recall, I did link to the second MLG Halo 3 Mode update where they said why, earlier in this thread.
>
> Halo BMS got slower every game after Halo CE. each slower than the last until Halo 5

No. 1, 2 and 3 are the same. ODST, Reach and 4 were slower. H5G is faster.
These are the speed values from the games (with proof videos, where I thought of taking one):

HALO CE:
7m/s

HALO 2:
7m/s

HALO 2 ANNIVERSARY:
7.6m/s.

HALO 3:
7m/s.

ODST:
5.5m/s

REACH:
6.85m/s (Base)
10.75m/s (Sprint)

HALO 4:
6.6m/s (Base).
10.75m/s (Sprint)

H5G:
8.3m/s (Base).
10.75m/s (Sprint)

> 2533274801176260;12635:
> > 2533274866652866;12623:
> > Halo 4 sold over 9 million copies same with reach these games both have sprint in them, how do you explain these sales. Halo 5 didnt have very good sale numbers but there could be many reasons for that.
>
> I didn’t know how bad Reach was going to be before I played it. At that time, I couldn’t even fathom the idea of a bad Halo game. “Halo” and “bad” were two polar opposites to me.
> For Halo 4 I already was skeptical from the get-go. But 343 was a new developer and they fooled me with their “trust us” statements, so I gave them the chance to prove me wrong.
> They didn’t.
> So for H5G, I no longer gave them the same benefit of the doubt that I did with Halo 4.

Yeah I bought Halo Reach because 1) it was a new Halo game, and 2) it was Bungie’s last. I bought Halo 4 because 1) it was a new team who deserved a chance, 2) I actually still enjoyed Halo Reach even though it wasn’t the best, it wasn’t bad, so I assumed Halo 4 wouldn’t be bad either, and 3) it was Halo “4”, a sequel to Halo 3, and 343i made several efforts to sell it as such (even the initial gameplay gif showed a step back towards Halo 3 and away from Halo Reach).

You factor in that, and the treatment MCC got, I wasn’t about to drop money at launch for Halo 5. Especially when more details became clear, and it seemed that just like how Halo 4 turned out, Halo 5 was going to take 2 steps back for every step forward.

> 2533274866652866;12621:
> > 2533274923562209;12606:
> > > 2535455477282651;12605:
> > > Sprint shouldn’t be in Halo. Halo was better without it.
> > > If Halo 6 doesn’t have Sprint I’m confident at least 90% of the players in favour of Sprint will adapt and prefer it.
> >
> > Nah, they can go play halo 4 or halo 5. After all, that seems to be what they say to those Vs sprint with a broken mcc that we should go back to.
>
> Dont play the im against you so go @#*% off thing, every person on this thread comments because they like halo and what it to be the most successful game and want every gamer to play HALO.

Does it bother you that much? It’s just giving back to those whom share the mentality I showed in that response. Why do the people wanting a NEW halo game without sprint need to go back to mcc? My comment was at those saying it and there’s quite a bit. Do I really mean it? No, you’re just the one that took it out of context. I can agree that everyone is pro halo in the end, still won’t stop people from saying someone’s view of progress is wrong and pro sprint really haven’t given justified reasons. Is sprint the sole culprit? No, and I’ve said that multiple times, but there’s nothing saying it isn’t either when sprint has been a constant in every game regressing instead of progressing and 343 haven’t even attempted a no sprint version just to see how it plays out.

This ones aimed at your absured assumption. Count how many people in this thread alone have said no to sprint. I can pull numbers out of my -Yoink- to you know. You don’t base feedback on the forums alone cuz I have friends for and vs sprint that don’t even use halowaypoint. Fact is no one has concrete info on everyone’s view of sprint, so it’s naive to make the assumption that thousands/hundred thousands/millions don’t complain on sprint when you’ve got nothing backing that up.

Sprint was part of halo 4 and 5, back in the old times we din’t have sprint since halo ce,halo 2 and halo 3 that recently released. all I’m saying is without sprint halo players can get killed real easily, especially when you attempt to take cover.

> 2533274866652866;12622:
> > 2533274959219282;12607:
> > > 2533274866652866;12603:
> > > **I don’t think it needs to be accessible, overwatch had no problem bringing people in and it has no sprint. It doesn’t matter why you find sprint useful it doesn’t fit the game. You should have to put your head down and strafe to get away, show map knowledge that you can navigate with your head down. You should have to learn skill based crouch jumps and chained jumps with high learning curves to get to objectives. This game was not for little wieners lol. Halo 5 is a bland bore fest with none of the things I liked about 1-3. Literally none, you don’t have to strafe just hit the thrust button when you are are bout to go to one shot. Or you jump one way and thrust the other way… wow it’s not like that doesn’t happen every single br battle. Where are the left left right left strafe mix ups and ghandi hopping movement that made halo good? I know let’s make it son fully autos are overpowered beyond belief, so you get instant killed by an smg.**Halo 3 had the worst weapon balancing, literally 99 percent of the time i use the BR what is the point of using a needler or brute shot, brute spiker. There is strafing still in halo 5 and crouch jumping, the learning curve is still there for halo 5 just the same with halo 3. Overwatch has many differences to halo for example not all players are equal this brings in more variety for casual and hardcore gamers to like about the game. If you were to create a halo game that was directly after halo 3 what would you bring in?
> > > For me i think thrust would work fine same with ground pound.
> >
> > Nothing, I’d add some new guns that’s it.
>
> Going from halo 1, 2, and 3 each game added more than just guns halo 2 added dual welding halo 3 added equipment, while i didnt like them greatly they did change gameplay and added something fresh. Just adding guns is boring i may as well play Halo online or SPVS for free rather than spending 60 dollars and just getting more guns.

I’d be spending the money to have dedicated servers for the first time on a classic halo you get one once in a blue moon on mcc

> 2533274866652866;12621:
> > 2533274923562209;12606:
> > > 2535455477282651;12605:
> > > Sprint shouldn’t be in Halo. Halo was better without it.
> > > If Halo 6 doesn’t have Sprint I’m confident at least 90% of the players in favour of Sprint will adapt and prefer it.
> >
> > Nah, they can go play halo 4 or halo 5. After all, that seems to be what they say to those Vs sprint with a broken mcc that we should go back to.
>
> Dont play the im against you so go @#*% off thing, every person on this thread comments because they like halo and what it to be the most successful game and want every gamer to play HALO.

I don’t I hate new halo I only lik3 classic halo so do millions of others.

> 2533274866652866;12623:
> > 2535410901623492;12609:
> > > 2533275035781111;12594:
> > > H3a would be a good start, but remasters don’t bring in nearly as much attention or sales as a new game.
> >
> > Indeed they don’t
> >
> > Which speaks volumes that Halo 5 only sold 2 million more than the anniversaries of H1/2 and Half of what Reach sold, and a third of what Halo 3 sold
>
> Halo 4 sold over 9 million copies same with reach these games both have sprint in them, how do you explain these sales. Halo 5 didnt have very good sale numbers but there could be many reasons for that.

How many kept playing 4?

<mark>This post has been edited by a moderator. Please refrain from making non-constructive posts.</mark>

*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

> 2533274807881644;12627:
> I only see the same people against sprint in this thread.

Because for the most part we have given up, all of my friends who I played 3 with gave up after reach.Its what happens when you realise idiots are in charge and think they know better. Still it’s been fun being proved right the last 5 years.