The sprint discussion thread

Games Halo 5: Guardians
12604

> > This thread is still going! Please tell me someone at 343 has noticed 630 pages of discussion and maybe just maybe thought about it. All the best to everyone who keeps the discussion alive! I hope both sides can be satisfied one day with a solid classic style game as well as an equally well made modern style Halo.
>
> It’s definitely been noticed by now, the question is how much do they actually care or agree that sprint is bad. 343 has made a lot of mistakes but I’d like to think that they can still pull it together.

I’m under the impression that 343i themselves prefer sprint and this style of game play (“we hired people who didn’t like ‘x’ about Halo”) or they have some pretty big fears about going against the popular trends.

12605

Sprint shouldn’t be in Halo. Halo was better without it.
If Halo 6 doesn’t have Sprint I’m confident at least 90% of the players in favour of Sprint will adapt and prefer it.

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> 2535455477282651;12605:
> Sprint shouldn’t be in Halo. Halo was better without it.
> If Halo 6 doesn’t have Sprint I’m confident at least 90% of the players in favour of Sprint will adapt and prefer it.

Nah, they can go play halo 4 or halo 5. After all, that seems to be what they say to those Vs sprint with a broken mcc that we should go back to.

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> **I don’t think it needs to be accessible, overwatch had no problem bringing people in and it has no sprint. It doesn’t matter why you find sprint useful it doesn’t fit the game. You should have to put your head down and strafe to get away, show map knowledge that you can navigate with your head down. You should have to learn skill based crouch jumps and chained jumps with high learning curves to get to objectives. This game was not for little wieners lol. Halo 5 is a bland bore fest with none of the things I liked about 1-3. Literally none, you don’t have to strafe just hit the thrust button when you are are bout to go to one shot. Or you jump one way and thrust the other way… wow it’s not like that doesn’t happen every single br battle. Where are the left left right left strafe mix ups and ghandi hopping movement that made halo good? I know let’s make it son fully autos are overpowered beyond belief, so you get instant killed by an smg.**Halo 3 had the worst weapon balancing, literally 99 percent of the time i use the BR what is the point of using a needler or brute shot, brute spiker. There is strafing still in halo 5 and crouch jumping, the learning curve is still there for halo 5 just the same with halo 3. Overwatch has many differences to halo for example not all players are equal this brings in more variety for casual and hardcore gamers to like about the game. If you were to create a halo game that was directly after halo 3 what would you bring in?
> For me i think thrust would work fine same with ground pound.

Nothing, I’d add some new guns that’s it.

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> 2547348539238747;12604:
> > > This thread is still going! Please tell me someone at 343 has noticed 630 pages of discussion and maybe just maybe thought about it. All the best to everyone who keeps the discussion alive! I hope both sides can be satisfied one day with a solid classic style game as well as an equally well made modern style Halo.
> >
> > It’s definitely been noticed by now, the question is how much do they actually care or agree that sprint is bad. 343 has made a lot of mistakes but I’d like to think that they can still pull it together.
>
> I’m under the impression that 343i themselves prefer sprint and this style of game play (“we hired people who didn’t like ‘x’ about Halo”) or they have some pretty big fears about going against the popular trends.

JMPO, but trying to effect change in a positive direction by deliberately employing those with negative views about all or any aspects is about as counterproductive as you can get.

There will be a difference between those who like Halo and want to see it grow, despite the fact that ‘x’ didn’t work out, wasn’t as well received or wasn’t the great idea they thought it was and those who dislike Halo or any part of it. Those who like Halo and want change for the better to improve its shortcomings will have very different agendas than those who don’t like ‘x’ and want change for the sake of it.

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> 2533275035781111;12594:
> H3a would be a good start, but remasters don’t bring in nearly as much attention or sales as a new game.

Indeed they don’t

Which speaks volumes that Halo 5 only sold 2 million more than the anniversaries of H1/2 and Half of what Reach sold, and a third of what Halo 3 sold

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> 2533274866652866;12603:
> If you were to create a halo game that was directly after halo 3 what would you bring in?

Using H3 as a base model, I’d probably:

  • Increase the movement speed and FoV - Remove dual-wielding and re-evaluate the weapons that depended on the mechanic (in terms of balance and operation) - Alter the concept of Equipment by incorporating their effects into weapons/grenades (ex. Grav Lift added as secondary attack for Grav Hammer) - Further re-evaluate weapons’ behavior and balance (I’d probably ditch the Carbine in favor of a Needle Rifle with its supercombine creating a damaging AoE) - Have variants of weapons (ex. Plasma Pistol variants like Void’s Tear and Brute Plasma Pistol from SPV3 mod) - Remove Spike and Incendiary grenades, add a concussion grenade (small damage but better launching power than Frags or Plasmas) and either a Grav or Smoke grenade - Play around with dynamic map design (Campaign & multiplayer). Changing gravity, more moving platforms, etc.Going off on a bit of a tangent… Suffice to say that plenty could be done going forward without senselessly following popular/generic FPS trends.
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> > 2533274866652866;12603:
> > If you were to create a halo game that was directly after halo 3 what would you bring in?
>
> Using H3 as a base model, I’d probably:
> - Increase the movement speed and FoV - Remove dual-wielding and re-evaluate the weapons that depended on the mechanic (in terms of balance and operation) - Alter the concept of Equipment by incorporating their effects into weapons/grenades (ex. Grav Lift added as secondary attack for Grav Hammer) - Further re-evaluate weapons’ behavior and balance (I’d probably ditch the Carbine in favor of a Needle Rifle with its supercombine creating a damaging AoE) - Have variants of weapons (ex. Plasma Pistol variants like Void’s Tear and Brute Plasma Pistol from SPV3 mod) - Remove Spike and Incendiary grenades, add a concussion grenade (small damage but better launching power than Frags or Plasmas) and either a Grav or Smoke grenade - Play around with dynamic map design (Campaign & multiplayer). Changing gravity, more moving platforms, etc.Going off on a bit of a tangent… Suffice to say that plenty could be done going forward without senselessly following popular/generic FPS trends.

See, everyone seems to think that removing sprint will make the game a clone of halo 3, no wonder people like sprint if they look at gameplay in such a shallow way.

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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sprint killed Halo. Absolutely killed it. Game cannot hold a population at all ever since sprint was introduced. It just doesn’t fit and it fundamentally alters the game.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Game absolutely cannot hold a population since the elites changed design, since the DMR was introduced, since the magnum had a scope reintroduced, so are those reason’s for Halo’s fall as well?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just saying sprint is the reason is pure speculation.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > None of those things fundementally changed gameplay and map design.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Either way. Its still speculation. There’s no hard evidence of sprint being the cause of Halo’s decline
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > There’s no evidence saying it isn’t.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > If you look at the sales for halo reach they are the second highest in the franchise, and someone posted the stats for how long reachs population lasted which was the 2nd or 3rd longest in the series. Reach had sprint and i could argue that it was successful as a halo game. There are many reasons why halo is no longer selling 9 million plus copies one being that the FPS genre has shifted, the gaming market has changed by being more competitive, the xbox one not selling as many copies and sprint may play a factor in their sale numbers. Sprint is part of the sales problem but is not the main reason for low sales.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Reach dropped to 7th place on the xbl charts a couple months after release. It took a nose dive. Being 3rd means little when HCE had no online and h3/3 are miles ahead of everything else. Reach sold well off the coattails of h3.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Competition has hardly raised. The xb1 is outselling the 360. The xb1 does have RROD. The attach rate to xbl is higher than ever.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > You’re are factually incorrect on practically every point you made.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > So you made no reference to how your numbers affected sprint which was the premise of my point. Here are a couple of facts, reach’s population had 400,000 minimum playing until 2012. Thats two years after its release date. You mentioned that reach dropped to 7th place on xbl. I would argue that that doesnt mean much considering the population was still high and if you compare reach’s numbers to halo 3 numbers of june a year after their release the population was very similar. I would also add that 7th place on the xbl doesnt mean much because in 2011 COD modern warfare 3 released selling over 14 million copies. This is would explain that drop to 7th place.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > You said that competition has hardly changed, this couldn’t be more wrong. Any COD game sold before 2006 sold less than 3 million copies, while after this period it sold upwards of 5 million and as high as 14 million. Coincidentally 2006 is the same time COD brought in regenerative health which they got from halo. Combine those sell numbers with battlefield with it’s last two game 3, 4 which sold over 7 million in 2011 before this time they only sold around 2 million. This increase in sales of other games could mean that population for other games dont last as long. So my point is that competition has certainly changed for halo, other games have become successful.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > And to say i was factually incorrect about reach being the 2nd best selling and 2nd best at holding the population was WRONG.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > My point in the previous thread was that some people are saying that sprint is the cause of sell numbers, while i dont disagree with this (because obviously people dont like sprint which is apparent in the thread) it cannot be said that sell numbers are entirely due to sprint.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Where is your proof of these claims? I know that they are pretty much all incorrect so you’re going to have to prove it.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Franchises that have existed just as long or longer than halo growing is not increased competition. That is just halo starting to lose vs the same competition.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > population.pdf - Google Drive
> > > > > > > > > and the game sales was from Vgcharts.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Did you even read it lol?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > It clearly states h2 had the best player retention, followed by 3.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Correct and i was never arguing that point. If i can paraphrase you from before “Sprint killed Halo. Absolutely killed it. Game cannot hold a population at all ever since sprint was introduced. It just doesn’t fit and it fundamentally alters the game”. Thats what you said, and that is what im replying to. I am arguing that sprint didnt kill halo and that there is a fundemental change in consumers for the console. And H2 did have the best player retention then H3 then reach thanks for making my point.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Look at my link provided above. Just before reach’s launch h3 was still holding million+ daily populations, 200,000 concurrent, and 2nd place on xbl charts. According to major Nelson h3 was xbl’s most played game in 07, 08 AND 09. This game faced off against MW2, BF, Fallout, etc, etc. All the same franchises reach did. Reach launched and within a matter of MONTHS halo’s population had halfed.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You’re going to sit here and tell me that’s because of a “market shift”? The entire market shifted in a matter of months even though no new franchises were introduced?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Riiiiiiiight
> >
> > What are you?
> > You said “millions” of people would be complaining, so you’re wrong.
> > You said “hundreds of thousands” of people would be complaining about sprint, so again, you’re wrong.
> > I noted the population because you said those two statements, so I have no idea what you’re trying to say.
> >
> > I couldn’t care less if you do or not, that doesn’t mean it’s good for the game. Not because I don’t like it, but because
> > it introduces REAL complications in the gameplay. Stop dismissing those things just cause you like it. You can have Halo 5. I want a REAL Halo game.
>
> Show me where millions of people are complaining about Halo’s sprint…and in your previous statement you said think about the original fan base i am from the original fan base. And i didnt dismiss your view, again have a look at my previous comment i would like an increase in the BMS or FOV.
> You can present your view as much as you like and say how much sprint killed halo but you would be wrong, does sprinting create problems yes i never said it didnt, but does halo 5 have solid gameplay yes which means sprint is not the be all and end all. What you should be asking for is a classic playlist with forged maps that are almost unlimited because having unlimited content and a community is what keeps people playing not whether or not a game has sprint or doesnt.

I never said “millions of people are complaining about sprint”
YOU said “millions of people” in your OP.

When I say “original fanbase” I don’t mean the people who have accepted the new mechanics. I mean the side of the community who wants classic gameplay. I don’t even want a faster BMS, that is simply a solution if sprint was removed to please the “sprint crowd” who wants to feel faster for no apparent reason.
I would not be wrong in saying sprint killed Halo. It disrupted the game’s core, along with other factors too.
If you play Halo 3 for instance, consider being dropped into the Black Ops 3 game, and see how long you play the game. You would realize that these mechanics make the game unrecognizable to Halo 3. Which discourages you to play the new game. Instead of accepting these new mechanics, or justifying them in any way, they just aren’t Halo, and to argue that this is what Halo is now, is absurd.

I could give you an apple and tell you it’s an orange, but it is still an apple. I could say, yes it is different, but it is still fruit. Does that mean you’re okay with it if you don’t like apples? NO. You want your damn orange.

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sprint is helpful at times

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Could SOMEONE at 343i make even the most simpliest tweet saying;

“There’ll be a No Sprint playlist in Halo 6”

Please?

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> 2533274977241074;12613:
> sprint is helpful at times

When is sprint helpful to the player?

(Copy/pasted from the previous page)

> From a personal perspective, I find sprint very useful. I use it to avoid enemy fire, to get to the objective quicker, to move to cover as soon as possible, and to get the drop on enemies.

> Using sprint, you can avoid enemy fire in situations where the devs allow that to be possible. Likewise, you get to the objective only as quickly as the devs make possible. The cover on the map has been placed by the devs considering how fast you can move between them. You aren’t able to do these things any better/more quickly because of sprint than you would be if sprint were absent and the distances between cover/objectives were shortened.
> You don’t gain anything from having sprint in the game; you just gain the advantages you mentioned from using it in a game that has it as an option (as in, when the map layouts, kill-times, etc. have taken its inclusion and effects into account).

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> 2533274818733838;12614:
> Could SOMEONE at 343i make even the most simpliest tweet saying;
>
> “There’ll be a No Sprint playlist in Halo 6”
>
> Please?

A no sprint game would be better.

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> > 2533274818733838;12614:
> > Could SOMEONE at 343i make even the most simpliest tweet saying;
> >
> > “There’ll be a No Sprint playlist in Halo 6”
> >
> > Please?
>
> A no sprint game would be better.

I’m getting kind of sick of this. Does anyone actually expect me to drop 60$ on a playlist? Because if H6 is released with a classic playlist for anti-sprint players, I’m not buying it. I want a game, not a fraction of a game.

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> 2535434037793365;12616:
> > 2533274818733838;12614:
> > Could SOMEONE at 343i make even the most simpliest tweet saying;
> > “There’ll be a No Sprint playlist in Halo 6”
> > Please?
>
> A no sprint game would be better.

Believe me man, my thoughts exactly, but given how far down the rabbit hole of being a trend follower 343 has been with Halos 4 & 5, I highly doubt they’ll ditch it all together.

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> > 2535434037793365;12616:
> > > 2533274818733838;12614:
> > > Could SOMEONE at 343i make even the most simpliest tweet saying;
> > >
> > > “There’ll be a No Sprint playlist in Halo 6”
> > >
> > > Please?
> >
> > A no sprint game would be better.
>
> I’m getting kind of sick of this. Does anyone actually expect me to drop 60$ on a playlist? Because if H6 is released with a classic playlist for anti-sprint players, I’m not buying it. I want a game, not a fraction of a game.

Oh… don’t worry. I’m sure that if H6 ships with a classic, no sprint playlist, you’ll still get your “full game”. I mean yeah, you probably won’t have -Yoink- to play at first because it’ll ship bare bones and the content you want will trickle out, but I’m sure you’ll get your full game after… say… a year.

Aside from that, I’m sorry, but that argument is nonsense. Every video game I’ve ever purchased has had some kind of content that I didn’t care to play. Some have had a few game types, some have had entire playlists. Welcome to gaming, where games are made to appeal to a wide audience… and in doing so… most have some content that will appeal to some, but not others.

I’ve never purchased a single game thinking that I’ll be 100% happy with it and want to play all content that it has. I purchase it for the content that I like to play and that’s what I play. The enjoyment I get from playing the content I like is how I base whether or not I got a good value for my $60… if I followed your logic, then I probably wouldn’t have purchased 99% of the games I’ve ever played because I only got a “fraction of a game”.

I mean, DGMW… I doubt anyone expects you to “drop $60 on a playlist”… I don’t care either way. But that statement sounds just plain funny when you consider those who didn’t want sprint at all, didn’t have much reason to drop $60 on entire Halo games since before Reach. The way I see it, a fair compromise would be to add a classic playlist. At least that’s an effort to appease both sides and show some consideration.

Who knows, if they actually did offer a classic playlist in H6 I might even be tempted to buy it. I’d rather drop $60 on a “fraction of a game” that has a playlist I can enjoy a full experience from than on “complete” game that I can only get a fraction of the enjoyment from.

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> > 2533274943854776;12617:
> > > 2535434037793365;12616:
> > > > 2533274818733838;12614:
> > > > Could SOMEONE at 343i make even the most simpliest tweet saying;
> > > >
> > > > “There’ll be a No Sprint playlist in Halo 6”
> > > >
> > > > Please?
> > >
> > > A no sprint game would be better.
> >
> > I’m getting kind of sick of this. Does anyone actually expect me to drop 60$ on a playlist? Because if H6 is released with a classic playlist for anti-sprint players, I’m not buying it. I want a game, not a fraction of a game.
>
> Oh… don’t worry. I’m sure that if H6 ships with a classic, no sprint playlist, you’ll still get your “full game”. I mean yeah, you probably won’t have -Yoink- to play at first because it’ll ship bare bones and the content you want will trickle out, but I’m sure you’ll get your full game after… say… a year.

What? So after a year the game just doesn’t have sprint?

> 2594261035368257;12619:
> Aside from that, I’m sorry, but that argument is nonsense. Every video game I’ve ever purchased has had some kind of content that I didn’t care to play. Some have had a few game types, some have had entire playlists. Welcome to gaming, where games are made to appeal to a wide audience… and in doing so… most have some content that will appeal to some, but not others.

Agreed. I’m missing your point. What was it?

> 2594261035368257;12619:
> I’ve never purchased a single game thinking that I’ll be 100% happy with it and want to play all content that it has. I purchase it for the content that I like to play and that’s what I play. The enjoyment I get from playing the content I like is how I base whether or not I got a good value for my $60… if I followed your logic, then I probably wouldn’t have purchased 99% of the games I’ve ever played because I only got a “fraction of a game”.

I didn’t mean that you shouldn’t buy a game because you’re not gonna enjoy all of it. But the context here was one playlist. I have never played a playlist that’s worth $60. Have you?

> 2594261035368257;12619:
> I mean, DGMW… I doubt anyone expects you to “drop $60 on a playlist”… I don’t care either way. But that statement sounds just plain funny when you consider those who didn’t want sprint at all, didn’t have much reason to drop $60 on entire Halo games since before Reach. The way I see it, a fair compromise would be to add a classic playlist. At least that’s an effort to appease both sides and show some consideration.

“At least that’s an effort to appease both sides and show some consideration”
-No it’s not! It’s a slap in my face. You see, to me it’s pretty obvious which side of the community has been getting the short end of the stick for the last couple of years. H4, H5 and MCC are way worse than “6 months without infection”, so ask me if your interests are at the top of my mind.
An effort to appease both sides would be to divide the game for anti-sprint- and pro-sprint players. Of course- then everyone would be paying $60 on 1/2 of a game.

> 2594261035368257;12619:
> Who knows, if they actually did offer a classic playlist in H6 I might even be tempted to buy it. I’d rather drop $60 on a “fraction of a game” that has a playlist I can enjoy a full experience from than on “complete” game that I can only get a fraction of the enjoyment from.

I wouldn’t drop $60 on either of them.

Sorry if this came out angry. Thank you for your time.

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> 2533274923562209;12606:
> > 2535455477282651;12605:
> > Sprint shouldn’t be in Halo. Halo was better without it.
> > If Halo 6 doesn’t have Sprint I’m confident at least 90% of the players in favour of Sprint will adapt and prefer it.
>
> Nah, they can go play halo 4 or halo 5. After all, that seems to be what they say to those Vs sprint with a broken mcc that we should go back to.

Dont play the im against you so go @#*% off thing, every person on this thread comments because they like halo and what it to be the most successful game and want every gamer to play HALO.

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> > 2533274866652866;12603:
> > **I don’t think it needs to be accessible, overwatch had no problem bringing people in and it has no sprint. It doesn’t matter why you find sprint useful it doesn’t fit the game. You should have to put your head down and strafe to get away, show map knowledge that you can navigate with your head down. You should have to learn skill based crouch jumps and chained jumps with high learning curves to get to objectives. This game was not for little wieners lol. Halo 5 is a bland bore fest with none of the things I liked about 1-3. Literally none, you don’t have to strafe just hit the thrust button when you are are bout to go to one shot. Or you jump one way and thrust the other way… wow it’s not like that doesn’t happen every single br battle. Where are the left left right left strafe mix ups and ghandi hopping movement that made halo good? I know let’s make it son fully autos are overpowered beyond belief, so you get instant killed by an smg.**Halo 3 had the worst weapon balancing, literally 99 percent of the time i use the BR what is the point of using a needler or brute shot, brute spiker. There is strafing still in halo 5 and crouch jumping, the learning curve is still there for halo 5 just the same with halo 3. Overwatch has many differences to halo for example not all players are equal this brings in more variety for casual and hardcore gamers to like about the game. If you were to create a halo game that was directly after halo 3 what would you bring in?
> > For me i think thrust would work fine same with ground pound.
>
> Nothing, I’d add some new guns that’s it.

Going from halo 1, 2, and 3 each game added more than just guns halo 2 added dual welding halo 3 added equipment, while i didnt like them greatly they did change gameplay and added something fresh. Just adding guns is boring i may as well play Halo online or SPVS for free rather than spending 60 dollars and just getting more guns.

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> 2535410901623492;12609:
> > 2533275035781111;12594:
> > H3a would be a good start, but remasters don’t bring in nearly as much attention or sales as a new game.
>
> Indeed they don’t
>
> Which speaks volumes that Halo 5 only sold 2 million more than the anniversaries of H1/2 and Half of what Reach sold, and a third of what Halo 3 sold

Halo 4 sold over 9 million copies same with reach these games both have sprint in them, how do you explain these sales. Halo 5 didnt have very good sale numbers but there could be many reasons for that.