The sprint discussion thread

Games Halo 5: Guardians
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> > > > > > > > didn’t even bother reading it because it is the dumbest topic out there right now. Just because it has sprint doesn’t mean its not Halo. It’s one whole mechanic, that’s it. If you don’t like sprint, don’t sprint. Problem solved.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Halo was made with a 3 part formula set up in mind.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You have your grenades, melee, and weapons. Sprint wasn’t a part of that. The formula changed with Reach, now it is generally accepted as one of the best Halos, so returning to a 4 part formula (AA, melee, grenade, gun like Reach) would probably still work.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Having the current gameplay with Charge, Thrust, GP, Sprint, grenade, melee, and weapons just won’t work. 7 parts is 4 too many.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The population has also gone down faster in games that break the formula
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It is only considered one of the best Halo games by people who didn’t play the original trilogy, were too young to remember it, or people who don’t understand or care about Halo as an arena shooter.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Reach had an immense amount of features and content in it and it all worked. That’s what it had going for it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I’ve said it many times and I’ll say it again: Reach was NOT a good game in terms of balance. It’s multi-player attempted to appeal to an audience that cared little for balance to begin with.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It tried to appeal to people that didn’t enjoy Halo because of its balanced, skillful mechanics. It attempted to adopt the modern instant gratification formula and it didn’t work. It alienated long time Halo fans and those it tried to reel in were too busy indulging themselves in CoD Black Ops.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >Long Time Halo Fan (04)
> > > > >
> > > > > >Thinks Reach> Halo 2, CE, 4, 5
> > > > >
> > > > > >Has played all Halo games (even the Attack Synonym Games)
> > > > >
> > > > > “it had a lot of content, that’s it”
> > > > >
> > > > > And great gameplay.
>
>
>
>
> That’s not RNG, RNG would be a DMR with a 1/1000 chance to become a Scarab Gun. Bloom was the lighting effect if I recall, and the reduced it several times. Didn’t bothered me either way. Never had an effect on my fights.
>
> Halo and arena gameplay are one in the same. Saying I don’t care about one is the same for the other.
>
> I never said “let’s copy every last thing” I said let’s copy the gameplay. You know, grenade limits, Elite/Spartan changes, vehicles (the sandbox in general), maps (muh FW), game modes. That kind of thing.
>
> “Couple of things wrong”
>
> I happen to say you’re wrong. See? Doesn’t work like that. Opinions aren’t facts. I stated many old timers fancy Reach over the current system, which is true. I don’t recall saying “every last Halo fan says Reach>the rest and if you disagree you’re racist”. Except I’m not MSNBC, and Halo isn’t in political power.
>
> “Get things out of the system”
>
> Sometimes a series has to try new things on their own. I remember a time when, due to equipment, PP EMP, and hijack stun, Halo 3 was “too much like CoD”. Had the conversation so many times in 07-09 in MM.
>
> I never said Halo needed to change. I said experimentation is helpful. Imagine if every Halo was like CoD, where we just stay exactly like Halo CE for 15 years. Even Cod is copying Reach with Fracture, which is Headhunter with data disks instead of skulls.
>
> Say this with me-“I can’t and shouldn’t speak for other people”. You make rules for me in your first sentence, so I’ll match you 1-1. You saying I dont care for arena is speaking for me.
>
> Halo had, originally, a golden triangle formula, grenade, gun, melee. Reach broke it. If you look at some of my other posts, you’ll see I said Halo 3 is the only Halo I think could, in pure gameplay, beat EVERY other FPS Spartan Halo. Wars I can’t compare because RTS, and ODST because it was a story main.
>
> Heres why I care about Halo being competitive- I make maps. When I’m not playing Arena, I’m in Forge

RNG: Any instance where there is a random outcome, no matter how small or big, RNG is involved. If I’m npt mistaken, the Bloom of Reach would increase when you dired at max fire rate, and with the bloom the spread of the bullet hits, which were randomly placed in a certain circular area based on the size of your reticule. So, you could land a headshot, a body shot or miss. Just because you didn’t feel like it affected you, doesn’t mean it didn’t.

Halo 3 like CoD: I was unaware a WWII shooter and then later a modern era shooter had equipment, hijack stun and an EMP weapon. Especially when the latter of the two got released post Halo 3.

CoD the same: Nobody suggested it needed to stay the same either. Just the wasted potential when trying to mimick another game for the sake of it, when other things could be experimented with.

There’s also a huge difference between “copying” gameplay mechanics that affect the overall gameplay, to say a game type or asset which has no impact on overall gameplay. Fracture has no impact on how the game plays overall, it’s a rule set. A mechanic, in this case, sprint, affects how the game plays.

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> > > > > > > > > didn’t even bother reading it because it is the dumbest topic out there right now. Just because it has sprint doesn’t mean its not Halo. It’s one whole mechanic, that’s it. If you don’t like sprint, don’t sprint. Problem solved.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Halo was made with a 3 part formula set up in mind.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > You have your grenades, melee, and weapons. Sprint wasn’t a part of that. The formula changed with Reach, now it is generally accepted as one of the best Halos, so returning to a 4 part formula (AA, melee, grenade, gun like Reach) would probably still work.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Having the current gameplay with Charge, Thrust, GP, Sprint, grenade, melee, and weapons just won’t work. 7 parts is 4 too many.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The population has also gone down faster in games that break the formula
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Oh my… Again with the golden triangle crap… How in the world did H3 equipment fit in the triangle at all? They completely destroy it… Yet Halo 3 is the most successful Halo.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The formula is imaginary and to say that only halos like that are good, we’d be left with Halo 1 and 2.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > That’s like saying that power ups and vehicles completely destroy the triangle too.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > AAs and SAs affect every fight you enter. Pick ups, and one use items like power ups, vehicles and equipment have to be collected, fought for and used correctly (i.e. not wasted or spammed).
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > That doesn’t mean that they don’t destroy the triangle, which frankly is a made up idea that hasnt really been adhered to since Halo 2. Where does bubble shield, regenerator, power drain, or any other equipment fit into “weapons, grenades, melee”?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Where does vehicles or power ups fit?.
> > >
> > >
> > > No one ever claimed that the golden triangle applied to anything outside of infantry combat and powerups don’t make you stop shooting except for the short activation which wasn’t in halo 3 anyway.
> >
> >
> > Right, but my point is this. Equipments are map pick ups, just like vehicles and power ups. Or even power weapons. You have to collect them and use them at the right time for them to be effective.
> >
> > AAs and SAs are a constant thing. Players didn’t earn them, they dont have to use them wisely. They can spam them all they want, with every life.
> >
> > The nature of equipment fits better with classic Halo. It’s map control/map specific tweaks vs player focused advancements. So instead of certain abilities, say for instance grav lift, only being on certain maps. With AAs, now every one has a jetpack and can do it on any map, all the time. It breaks the maps, it breaks the design of the game. Imagine High Ground and instead of the four entry points to the base (bunker, pipe, grav lift, button door) you have enemy team members flying over the wall. It takes away the flow of the map.
> >
> > Certain Affinity continued this ‘mapi vs player’ advancement idea with Halo 2A. Instead of offering more to the player they offered more to the maps. Adding in more dynamic features like shields structures, emp devices etc.
>
>
> I never mentioned equipment, in fact I’ve used the same argument you just used against others several times. I was just stating that equipment and powerups don’t break the triangle because power ups in halo 3 had no activation cutscene and equipment are like tactical grenades.

Sorry. I was unsure what your point was. The guy I was originally responding to seemed to have a hard time understanding what I was trying to put across. He even restated an argument in an response to a post where I had countered that argument. I was trying to stop the circular logic he was about to drag me in. So when you commented I mistook your response for one that didn’t understand the point of the post. So again, I’m sorry about that.

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I’m inclined to believe the golden triangle is a metaphor. In other words the design philosophy is to keep it simple. You get three tools to utilize for maiming, killing and otherwise destroying your fellow spartans. Each player begins play with these three tools alone. Winning or losing falls on applying those tools to achieve power up, power weapon, map and spawn control. A FPS doesn’t require an abundance of bells and whistles to be competitive, enjoyable or immersive.

Now, I could be wrong. The golden triangle may be a literal statement. I have difficulty believing a developer would purposefully paint themselves in a corner like that though, nor would it make sense.

In any case, H5 has far more tools relative to earlier titles. One could argue these tools add unneeded complexity, particularly because each new tool tends to create a cascade of effects on gameplay (see exhibit A, Sprint).

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> That’s not RNG, RNG would be a DMR with a 1/1000 chance to become a Scarab Gun. Bloom was the lighting effect if I recall, and the reduced it several times. Didn’t bothered me either way. Never had an effect on my fights.

FYI: RNG stands for “random number generator”, which is an algorithm that can be used to generate (pseudo-)random numbers from some distribution. Any mechanic that in some crucial way relies on a random number generating algorithm somewhere in the code can be said to be “RNG based”.

Bloom, in turn, is (aside from a similarly named lighting effect) a weapon mechanic where the spread of shots grows the longer the player shoots with it (visualized with an expanding reticle on the DMR). In case of Bloom, there is a circle of some radius (the radius of the spread), inside of which the position where the shot is registered is drawn randomly from a (likely non-uniform) distribution. Therefore, it’s completely appropriate to call the DMR an “RNG based” weapon.

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> I’m inclined to believe the golden triangle is a metaphor. In other words the design philosophy is to keep it simple. You get three tools to utilize for maiming, killing and otherwise destroying your fellow spartans. Each player begins play with these three tools alone. Winning or losing falls on applying those tools to achieve power up, power weapon, map and spawn control. A FPS doesn’t require an abundance of bells and whistles to be competitive, enjoyable or immersive.
>
> Now, I could be wrong. The golden triangle may be a literal statement. I have difficulty believing a developer would purposefully paint themselves in a corner like that though, nor would it make sense.
>
> In any case, H5 has far more tools relative to earlier titles. One could argue these tools add unneeded complexity, particularly because each new tool tends to create a cascade of effects on gameplay (see exhibit A, Sprint).

It’s highly likely that players over time have completely misinterepreted what people at Bungie meant with the golden triangle. I also strongly believe that Bungie never took the golden triangle as seriously as a design philosophy as the players who since then have raised it to this divine status do. In fact, I’m pretty sure that it was closer to a one-off thing than this underlying principle the community has made it to be.

I believe the first time it was brought up was regarding SMG starts in Halo 2, and there the point was that having a dual wieldable weapon as a starting weapon greatly reduced the amount of melee and grenade usage. Why Bungie explained this problem through the golden triangle, we can only speculate. But it’s clear that the problem here was that two mechanics were being neglected due to a third one, and it’s clear that when such a thing happens, you have a problem in your hands because you’d want people to use all mechanics.

Of course, if you really want to know, you could always try to tweet any of the people who worked on Halo 2 and 3, and ask whether they really took the golden triangle seriously, what it meant, and when the concept was invented.

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> > > > > > > > didn’t even bother reading it because it is the dumbest topic out there right now. Just because it has sprint doesn’t mean its not Halo. It’s one whole mechanic, that’s it. If you don’t like sprint, don’t sprint. Problem solved.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Halo was made with a 3 part formula set up in mind.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You have your grenades, melee, and weapons. Sprint wasn’t a part of that. The formula changed with Reach, now it is generally accepted as one of the best Halos, so returning to a 4 part formula (AA, melee, grenade, gun like Reach) would probably still work.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Having the current gameplay with Charge, Thrust, GP, Sprint, grenade, melee, and weapons just won’t work. 7 parts is 4 too many.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The population has also gone down faster in games that break the formula
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It is only considered one of the best Halo games by people who didn’t play the original trilogy, were too young to remember it, or people who don’t understand or care about Halo as an arena shooter.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Reach had an immense amount of features and content in it and it all worked. That’s what it had going for it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I’ve said it many times and I’ll say it again: Reach was NOT a good game in terms of balance. It’s multi-player attempted to appeal to an audience that cared little for balance to begin with.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It tried to appeal to people that didn’t enjoy Halo because of its balanced, skillful mechanics. It attempted to adopt the modern instant gratification formula and it didn’t work. It alienated long time Halo fans and those it tried to reel in were too busy indulging themselves in CoD Black Ops.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >Long Time Halo Fan (04)
> > > > >
> > > > > >Thinks Reach> Halo 2, CE, 4, 5
> > > > >
> > > > > >Has played all Halo games (even the Attack Synonym Games)
> > > > >
> > > > > “it had a lot of content, that’s it”
> > > > >
> > > > > And great gameplay.
> >
> >
> > Couple of things wrong with this post but the biggest issue is definitely the cherry picking. You can’t purposely convolute what I say to make a point.
> >
> > Such as when you claimed I said you don’t care about Halo. No, I said that you don’t care for Halo as an arena shooter. Meaning, balance isn’t high on the list of priorities. There are thousands of people who buy Halo games for reasons other than the multi-player and I would never suggest that they simply don’t care about Halo.
> >
> > But to the meat of the post…
> >
> > Im not really sure what you’re getting at with the first portion of your argument. You seem to be implying that Halo had this formula is was destined to follow and progress towards. And also saying that game developers are essentially manipulating player bases to “get things out of their systems,”
> >
> > I think you’re kind of projecting and assuming there. Reach introduced a lot of needless chaos into the Halo formula and you’re assuming that it was introduced because it was NEEDED and that players wanted to feel that CoD style of gameplay.
> >
> > No… if they wanted that type of gameplay wouldn’t they play the game that does the CoD formula much better? Like Call of Duty itself?
> >
> > They wasted years of potential creative development that could have been used to expand on Halos strengths. Instead the opted to take chapters (not pages) out of other people’s books and pray that the players would fall for it.
> >
> > We didn’t.
> >
> > As for the RNG based rifle, I’m talking about the DMR and bloom. That singlehandedly destroyed competitive gameplay. I know this forum holds open disdain for competitive communities but not only is that unwarranted it sets a dangerous precedent.
> >
> > “2 men enter, the better man leaves, the lesser man is respawning. That’s Halo.”
> > -Luke Smith
> >
> > That was no longer the case.
> >
> > Two men enter, one man mashes his trigger like a fool and HOPES for the best. The other man opts for discipline and times his bloom perfectly, making sure each shot lands where he’s aiming.
> >
> > The one mashing his trigger leaves. Is he the better man? Maybe, maybe not. But it’s not like we’ll ever know because the encounter was based on luck.
> >
> > And then you make the claim that the Halo 2 BR destroyed map control.
> >
> > Please tell me how? Because it promoted smart decision making and teamwork above all else. Ran out in the middle of Lockout with no cover, didn’t communicate to your team what your goal was? I hope the enemy enjoys their free kill.
> >
> > Lastly, you discuss Reach vehicles like the only thing that was a threat that wasn’t before was the sniper rifle. No, a DMR could destroy warthogs, and focused fire could destroy tanks. A sniper rifle was a legitimate threat to a tank. Now, you say these weapons behave similarly to what the US military uses. Being active duty in the Marine Corps infantry, I may or may not know a thing or two about this particular subject… and I’ll just say that if my M4 could convince a tank to back off I’d be pretty impressed with myself.
> >
> > Also please excuse typos. I’m posting from my phone and I have fat thumbs.
>
>
> Bloom was the lighting effect if I recall, and the reduced it several times. Didn’t bothered me either way. Never had an effect on my fights.

Oh my

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> > > > > > > > > didn’t even bother reading it because it is the dumbest topic out there right now. Just because it has sprint doesn’t mean its not Halo. It’s one whole mechanic, that’s it. If you don’t like sprint, don’t sprint. Problem solved.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Halo was made with a 3 part formula set up in mind.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > You have your grenades, melee, and weapons. Sprint wasn’t a part of that. The formula changed with Reach, now it is generally accepted as one of the best Halos, so returning to a 4 part formula (AA, melee, grenade, gun like Reach) would probably still work.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Having the current gameplay with Charge, Thrust, GP, Sprint, grenade, melee, and weapons just won’t work. 7 parts is 4 too many.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The population has also gone down faster in games that break the formula
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > It is only considered one of the best Halo games by people who didn’t play the original trilogy, were too young to remember it, or people who don’t understand or care about Halo as an arena shooter.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Reach had an immense amount of features and content in it and it all worked. That’s what it had going for it.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I’ve said it many times and I’ll say it again: Reach was NOT a good game in terms of balance. It’s multi-player attempted to appeal to an audience that cared little for balance to begin with.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > It tried to appeal to people that didn’t enjoy Halo because of its balanced, skillful mechanics. It attempted to adopt the modern instant gratification formula and it didn’t work. It alienated long time Halo fans and those it tried to reel in were too busy indulging themselves in CoD Black Ops.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >Long Time Halo Fan (04)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >Thinks Reach> Halo 2, CE, 4, 5
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >Has played all Halo games (even the Attack Synonym Games)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > “it had a lot of content, that’s it”
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And great gameplay.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > That’s not RNG, RNG would be a DMR with a 1/1000 chance to become a Scarab Gun. Bloom was the lighting effect if I recall, and the reduced it several times. Didn’t bothered me either way. Never had an effect on my fights.
> >
> > Halo and arena gameplay are one in the same. Saying I don’t care about one is the same for the other.
> >
> > I never said “let’s copy every last thing” I said let’s copy the gameplay. You know, grenade limits, Elite/Spartan changes, vehicles (the sandbox in general), maps (muh FW), game modes. That kind of thing.
> >
> > “Couple of things wrong”
> >
> > I happen to say you’re wrong. See? Doesn’t work like that. Opinions aren’t facts. I stated many old timers fancy Reach over the current system, which is true. I don’t recall saying “every last Halo fan says Reach>the rest and if you disagree you’re racist”. Except I’m not MSNBC, and Halo isn’t in political power.
> >
> > “Get things out of the system”
> >
> > Sometimes a series has to try new things on their own. I remember a time when, due to equipment, PP EMP, and hijack stun, Halo 3 was “too much like CoD”. Had the conversation so many times in 07-09 in MM.
> >
> > I never said Halo needed to change. I said experimentation is helpful. Imagine if every Halo was like CoD, where we just stay exactly like Halo CE for 15 years. Even Cod is copying Reach with Fracture, which is Headhunter with data disks instead of skulls.
> >
> > Say this with me-“I can’t and shouldn’t speak for other people”. You make rules for me in your first sentence, so I’ll match you 1-1. You saying I dont care for arena is speaking for me.
> >
> > Halo had, originally, a golden triangle formula, grenade, gun, melee. Reach broke it. If you look at some of my other posts, you’ll see I said Halo 3 is the only Halo I think could, in pure gameplay, beat EVERY other FPS Spartan Halo. Wars I can’t compare because RTS, and ODST because it was a story main.
> >
> > Heres why I care about Halo being competitive- I make maps. When I’m not playing Arena, I’m in Forge
>
>
> RNG: Any instance where there is a random outcome, no matter how small or big, RNG is involved. If I’m npt mistaken, the Bloom of Reach would increase when you dired at max fire rate, and with the bloom the spread of the bullet hits, which were randomly placed in a certain circular area based on the size of your reticule. So, you could land a headshot, a body shot or miss. Just because you didn’t feel like it affected you, doesn’t mean it didn’t.
>
> Halo 3 like CoD: I was unaware a WWII shooter and then later a modern era shooter had equipment, hijack stun and an EMP weapon. Especially when the latter of the two got released post Halo 3.
>
> CoD the same: Nobody suggested it needed to stay the same either. Just the wasted potential when trying to mimick another game for the sake of it, when other things could be experimented with.
>
> There’s also a huge difference between “copying” gameplay mechanics that affect the overall gameplay, to say a game type or asset which has no impact on overall gameplay. Fracture has no impact on how the game plays overall, it’s a rule set. A mechanic, in this case, sprint, affects how the game plays.

Halo 3 was like CoD because that is the go to excuse for whiners when change happens.

By that definition of DMR, its more like spread, which is realistic when you are spamming shots. It’s a circle, not hard to figure out.

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> 2533274825830455;12467:
> > 2533274818737568;12463:
> > That’s not RNG, RNG would be a DMR with a 1/1000 chance to become a Scarab Gun. Bloom was the lighting effect if I recall, and the reduced it several times. Didn’t bothered me either way. Never had an effect on my fights.
>
>
> FYI: RNG stands for “random number generator”, which is an algorithm that can be used to generate (pseudo-)random numbers from some distribution. Any mechanic that in some crucial way relies on a random number generating algorithm somewhere in the code can be said to be “RNG based”.
>
> Bloom, in turn, is (aside from a similarly named lighting effect) a weapon mechanic where the spread of shots grows the longer the player shoots with it (visualized with an expanding reticle on the DMR). In case of Bloom, there is a circle of some radius (the radius of the spread), inside of which the position where the shot is registered is drawn randomly from a (likely non-uniform) distribution. Therefore, it’s completely appropriate to call the DMR an “RNG based” weapon.

I know what RNG is. Weapon spread isn’t really entirely RNG. It’s more of a realism factor. You don’t stop to aim and that will mess with your aim. Sometimes it work a out. Is the AR spread RNG? Pretty sure there is a H5G weapon where the reticule and fire don’t match up.

Not RNG based either, seeing as how you still actually had to aim if you were half decent.

You want an RNG weapon, go play TF2. They’ll have something for you, surely. Figured bloom was the sun’s reflection because everyone was complaining about how bright it was. I’m not much into the technicalities of Reach either way it goes. Guess it really doesn’t matter anyway, the Reach era is gone.

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> 2535446485707379;12466:
> I’m inclined to believe the golden triangle is a metaphor. In other words the design philosophy is to keep it simple. You get three tools to utilize for maiming, killing and otherwise destroying your fellow spartans. Each player begins play with these three tools alone. Winning or losing falls on applying those tools to achieve power up, power weapon, map and spawn control. A FPS doesn’t require an abundance of bells and whistles to be competitive, enjoyable or immersive.
>
> Now, I could be wrong. The golden triangle may be a literal statement. I have difficulty believing a developer would purposefully paint themselves in a corner like that though, nor would it make sense.
>
> In any case, H5 has far more tools relative to earlier titles. One could argue these tools add unneeded complexity, particularly because each new tool tends to create a cascade of effects on gameplay (see exhibit A, Sprint).

Even if it was a metaphor, it worked better than the new system of everything goes in.

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> > > That’s not RNG, RNG would be a DMR with a 1/1000 chance to become a Scarab Gun. Bloom was the lighting effect if I recall, and the reduced it several times. Didn’t bothered me either way. Never had an effect on my fights.
> >
> >
> > FYI: RNG stands for “random number generator”, which is an algorithm that can be used to generate (pseudo-)random numbers from some distribution. Any mechanic that in some crucial way relies on a random number generating algorithm somewhere in the code can be said to be “RNG based”.
> >
> > Bloom, in turn, is (aside from a similarly named lighting effect) a weapon mechanic where the spread of shots grows the longer the player shoots with it (visualized with an expanding reticle on the DMR). In case of Bloom, there is a circle of some radius (the radius of the spread), inside of which the position where the shot is registered is drawn randomly from a (likely non-uniform) distribution. Therefore, it’s completely appropriate to call the DMR an “RNG based” weapon.
>
>
> I know what RNG is. Weapon spread isn’t really entirely RNG. It’s more of a realism factor. You don’t stop to aim and that will mess with your aim. Sometimes it work a out. Is the AR spread RNG? Pretty sure there is a H5G weapon where the reticule and fire don’t match up.
>
> Not RNG based either, seeing as how you still actually had to aim if you were half decent.
>
> You want an RNG weapon, go play TF2. They’ll have something for you, surely. Figured bloom was the sun’s reflection because everyone was complaining about how bright it was. I’m not much into the technicalities of Reach either way it goes.

No, based on this post, it seems to me that you don’t yet understand what it means for a system to be “RNG based”. RNG does not mean that something is solely based on luck. In fact “RNG” has nothing to do with gameplay per se. An RNG is just an algorithm that generates random numbers, and if a gameplay mechanic at any point calls a piece of code that generates random numbers, then we shall call it “RNG based”.

Almost all shooters where shots have some sort of spread determine the spread pattern using some form of random number generator. if you take an AR (in any Halo), and shoot at the wall, you will see that the shots have no discernible pattern; they are randomly distributed. The position of each shot within the reticle is determined by a piece of code that at some point calls a random number generating function. Therefore, the spread is RNG based.

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> > 2533274818737568;12471:
> > > 2533274825830455;12467:
> > > > 2533274818737568;12463:
> > > > That’s not RNG, RNG would be a DMR with a 1/1000 chance to become a Scarab Gun. Bloom was the lighting effect if I recall, and the reduced it several times. Didn’t bothered me either way. Never had an effect on my fights.
> > >
> > >
> > > FYI: RNG stands for “random number generator”, which is an algorithm that can be used to generate (pseudo-)random numbers from some distribution. Any mechanic that in some crucial way relies on a random number generating algorithm somewhere in the code can be said to be “RNG based”.
> > >
> > > Bloom, in turn, is (aside from a similarly named lighting effect) a weapon mechanic where the spread of shots grows the longer the player shoots with it (visualized with an expanding reticle on the DMR). In case of Bloom, there is a circle of some radius (the radius of the spread), inside of which the position where the shot is registered is drawn randomly from a (likely non-uniform) distribution. Therefore, it’s completely appropriate to call the DMR an “RNG based” weapon.
> >
> >
> > I know what RNG is. Weapon spread isn’t really entirely RNG. It’s more of a realism factor. You don’t stop to aim and that will mess with your aim. Sometimes it work a out. Is the AR spread RNG? Pretty sure there is a H5G weapon where the reticule and fire don’t match up.
> >
> > Not RNG based either, seeing as how you still actually had to aim if you were half decent.
> >
> > You want an RNG weapon, go play TF2. They’ll have something for you, surely. Figured bloom was the sun’s reflection because everyone was complaining about how bright it was. I’m not much into the technicalities of Reach either way it goes.
>
>
> No, based on this post, it seems to me that you don’t yet understand what it means for a system to be “RNG based”. RNG does not mean that something is solely based on luck. In fact “RNG” has nothing to do with gameplay per se. An RNG is just an algorithm that generates random numbers, and if a gameplay mechanic at any point calls a piece of code that generates random numbers, then we shall call it “RNG based”.
>
> Almost all shooters where shots have some sort of spread determine the spread pattern using some form of random number generator. if you take an AR (in any Halo), and shoot at the wall, you will see that the shots have no discernible pattern; they are randomly distributed. The position of each shot within the reticle is determined by a piece of code that at some point calls a random number generating function. Therefore, the spread is RNG based.

You got my point. Nobody cares when it was weapon A, the AR, but if it is weapon B, the DMR, everyone loses their minds.

As for RNG, I understand it full well. See- TF2 crits.

Off topic either way, this is the Sprint thread.

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> > > > > > > > > didn’t even bother reading it because it is the dumbest topic out there right now. Just because it has sprint doesn’t mean its not Halo. It’s one whole mechanic, that’s it. If you don’t like sprint, don’t sprint. Problem solved.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Halo was made with a 3 part formula set up in mind.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > You have your grenades, melee, and weapons. Sprint wasn’t a part of that. The formula changed with Reach, now it is generally accepted as one of the best Halos, so returning to a 4 part formula (AA, melee, grenade, gun like Reach) would probably still work.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Having the current gameplay with Charge, Thrust, GP, Sprint, grenade, melee, and weapons just won’t work. 7 parts is 4 too many.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The population has also gone down faster in games that break the formula
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > It is only considered one of the best Halo games by people who didn’t play the original trilogy, were too young to remember it, or people who don’t understand or care about Halo as an arena shooter.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Reach had an immense amount of features and content in it and it all worked. That’s what it had going for it.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I’ve said it many times and I’ll say it again: Reach was NOT a good game in terms of balance. It’s multi-player attempted to appeal to an audience that cared little for balance to begin with.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > It tried to appeal to people that didn’t enjoy Halo because of its balanced, skillful mechanics. It attempted to adopt the modern instant gratification formula and it didn’t work. It alienated long time Halo fans and those it tried to reel in were too busy indulging themselves in CoD Black Ops.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >Long Time Halo Fan (04)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >Thinks Reach> Halo 2, CE, 4, 5
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >Has played all Halo games (even the Attack Synonym Games)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > “it had a lot of content, that’s it”
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And great gameplay.
> > >
> > >
> > > Couple of things wrong with this post but the biggest issue is definitely the cherry picking. You can’t purposely convolute what I say to make a point.
> > >
> > > Such as when you claimed I said you don’t care about Halo. No, I said that you don’t care for Halo as an arena shooter. Meaning, balance isn’t high on the list of priorities. There are thousands of people who buy Halo games for reasons other than the multi-player and I would never suggest that they simply don’t care about Halo.
> > >
> > > But to the meat of the post…
> > >
> > > Im not really sure what you’re getting at with the first portion of your argument. You seem to be implying that Halo had this formula is was destined to follow and progress towards. And also saying that game developers are essentially manipulating player bases to “get things out of their systems,”
> > >
> > > I think you’re kind of projecting and assuming there. Reach introduced a lot of needless chaos into the Halo formula and you’re assuming that it was introduced because it was NEEDED and that players wanted to feel that CoD style of gameplay.
> > >
> > > No… if they wanted that type of gameplay wouldn’t they play the game that does the CoD formula much better? Like Call of Duty itself?
> > >
> > > They wasted years of potential creative development that could have been used to expand on Halos strengths. Instead the opted to take chapters (not pages) out of other people’s books and pray that the players would fall for it.
> > >
> > > We didn’t.
> > >
> > > As for the RNG based rifle, I’m talking about the DMR and bloom. That singlehandedly destroyed competitive gameplay. I know this forum holds open disdain for competitive communities but not only is that unwarranted it sets a dangerous precedent.
> > >
> > > “2 men enter, the better man leaves, the lesser man is respawning. That’s Halo.”
> > > -Luke Smith
> > >
> > > That was no longer the case.
> > >
> > > Two men enter, one man mashes his trigger like a fool and HOPES for the best. The other man opts for discipline and times his bloom perfectly, making sure each shot lands where he’s aiming.
> > >
> > > The one mashing his trigger leaves. Is he the better man? Maybe, maybe not. But it’s not like we’ll ever know because the encounter was based on luck.
> > >
> > > And then you make the claim that the Halo 2 BR destroyed map control.
> > >
> > > Please tell me how? Because it promoted smart decision making and teamwork above all else. Ran out in the middle of Lockout with no cover, didn’t communicate to your team what your goal was? I hope the enemy enjoys their free kill.
> > >
> > > Lastly, you discuss Reach vehicles like the only thing that was a threat that wasn’t before was the sniper rifle. No, a DMR could destroy warthogs, and focused fire could destroy tanks. A sniper rifle was a legitimate threat to a tank. Now, you say these weapons behave similarly to what the US military uses. Being active duty in the Marine Corps infantry, I may or may not know a thing or two about this particular subject… and I’ll just say that if my M4 could convince a tank to back off I’d be pretty impressed with myself.
> > >
> > > Also please excuse typos. I’m posting from my phone and I have fat thumbs.
> >
> >
> > Bloom was the lighting effect if I recall, and the reduced it several times. Didn’t bothered me either way. Never had an effect on my fights.
>
>
> Oh my

Jesus Christ.

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> > > > I don’t understand why people want sprint removed, you wanna walk across the map in order to destroy the core and waste the defender’s time waiting for you?
> > > >
> > > > If sprint is not right for you, call your doctor.
> > >
> > >
> > > If you’re not already aware of fast game play without needing sprint, then please don’t respond until you get that video in your head.
> >
> >
> > High movement speed is not the same as fast gameplay. That match was a lot of running around with nothing happening with occasional bouts of shooting in-between.
>
>
> May not be the best example, but your point of how “high movement speed is not the same as fast gameplay” is something worth mentioning when arguing against sprint in regards to how it “speeds up game play.”

Absolutely.

A recent game with really fast gameplay is Overwatch… There isn’t a lot of sprinting in that game. You have 1 character with an actual sprint. 1 character with a passive speed boost for the team, and multiple other movement options amongst the characters. The game is fast for other reasons. Kill times for example, level design for another…

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> > > > 2533274968707582;12446:
> > > > > 2533274871396650;12445:
> > > > > I don’t understand why people want sprint removed, you wanna walk across the map in order to destroy the core and waste the defender’s time waiting for you?
> > > > >
> > > > > If sprint is not right for you, call your doctor.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > If you’re not already aware of fast game play without needing sprint, then please don’t respond until you get that video in your head.
> > >
> > >
> > > High movement speed is not the same as fast gameplay. That match was a lot of running around with nothing happening with occasional bouts of shooting in-between.
> >
> >
> > May not be the best example, but your point of how “high movement speed is not the same as fast gameplay” is something worth mentioning when arguing against sprint in regards to how it “speeds up game play.”
>
>
> Absolutely.
>
> A recent game with really fast gameplay is Overwatch… There isn’t a lot of sprinting in that game. You have 1 character with an actual sprint. 1 character with a passive speed boost for the team, and multiple other movement options amongst the characters. The game is fast for other reasons. Kill times for example, level design for another…

I was just thinking about this. CS has sprint, you run faster with your knife out, but your weapon won’t be ready to fire. But when people say that sprint makes the gameplay faster, I can’t help but roll my eyes. Am I the onlyone who has played a game of CTF on Wizard?

Also, are you anti-sprint?

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<mark>This post has been edited by a moderator. Please refrain from making posts that do not contribute to the topic at hand.</mark>

*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

H3a or riot.

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> H3a or riot.

agreed

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> H3a or riot.

Do you really want 343, with their history and track record to do H3A?
personally I don’t want them anywhere near it

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> > H3a or riot.
>
>
> Do you really want 343, with their history and track record to do H3A?
> personally I don’t want them anywhere near it

Have certain affinity make it

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> > > H3a or riot.
> >
> >
> > Do you really want 343, with their history and track record to do H3A?
> > personally I don’t want them anywhere near it
>
>
> Have certain affinity make it

or just have bungie do it

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> > > > H3a or riot.
> > >
> > >
> > > Do you really want 343, with their history and track record to do H3A?
> > > personally I don’t want them anywhere near it
> >
> >
> > Have certain affinity make it
>
>
> or just have bungie do it

While they’re busy with Destiny? No thanks, and I don’t know if anyone should even trust them after Halo Reach.