> 2533274810779230;12442:
> I’m in two worlds. I see the advantages and disadvantages of sprinting. While its helpful and cool, it kind of takes away from it being a Halo game. But if you remove it in 6 altogether then people will whinge. Sooooo, I’d do a playlist that removes it. Maybe, classic Halo?
People aren’t gonna pay 60$ for a playlist.
I don’t understand why people want sprint removed, you wanna walk across the map in order to destroy the core and waste the defender’s time waiting for you?
If sprint is not right for you, call your doctor.
> 2533274871396650;12445:
> I don’t understand why people want sprint removed, you wanna walk across the map in order to destroy the core and waste the defender’s time waiting for you?
>
> If sprint is not right for you, call your doctor.
If you’re not already aware of fast game play without needing sprint, then please don’t respond until you get that video in your head.
> 2533274871396650;12445:
> I don’t understand why people want sprint removed, you wanna walk across the map in order to destroy the core and waste the defender’s time waiting for you?
>
> If sprint is not right for you, call your doctor.
Not one person advocating the removal of sprint is discussing to remove it from H5 Warzone. Were talking about the game play mechanics of the franchise going forward.
What does sprint add to the game that an increased BMS cant add? Why should we be hindered by the ability to not shoot, nade or melee while in sprint?
We’ve had sprint for 3 straight games, its time for halo to evolve into something better, something that makes it unique again.
> 2533274913913392;12377:
> > 2533274818737568;12343:
> > > 2533274973685362;4:
> > >
>
>
> Oh my… Again with the golden triangle crap… How in the world did H3 equipment fit in the triangle at all? They completely destroy it… Yet Halo 3 is the most successful Halo.
>
> The formula is imaginary and to say that only halos like that are good, we’d be left with Halo 1 and 2.
Equipment didn’t stop anybody from shooting, meleeing or grenading? You can do all three things in a bubble shield, regen field, power drainer, etc. The 2 sec animation doesn’t count. By that logic, grenades don’t support the golden triangle. And IIRC, the animations can almost be instantly canceled when you press any of the Golden Triangle buttons.
Halo 2 obliterated the concept of Golden Triangle with SMG starts.
> 2535434037793365;12448:
> > 2533274913913392;12377:
> > > 2533274818737568;12343:
> > > > 2533274973685362;4:
> > > >
> >
> >
> > Oh my… Again with the golden triangle crap… How in the world did H3 equipment fit in the triangle at all? They completely destroy it… Yet Halo 3 is the most successful Halo.
> >
> > The formula is imaginary and to say that only halos like that are good, we’d be left with Halo 1 and 2.
>
>
> Equipment didn’t stop anybody from shooting, meleeing or grenading? You can do all three things in a bubble shield, regen field, power drainer, etc. The 2 sec animation doesn’t count. By that logic, grenades don’t support the golden triangle. And IIRC, the animations can almost be instantly canceled when you press any of the Golden Triangle buttons.
>
> Halo 2 obliterated the concept of Golden Triangle with SMG starts.
Exacty. My point really is that the golden triangle shouldnt continually used as an argument. Tsassi puts it well here
> 2533274930367142;12397:
> > 2533274968707582;12396:
> > > 2533274930367142;12395:
> > >
>
>
> I do not understand why it damaged anything. You can sprint in games so what? Do you wanna have the man on the moon style back like in the old Halo games? I did not like those it was so slow and lame. Halo 4 was good Halo 5 is good and I hope Halo 6 will be even better. I am sorry but I am not into this old school Halo. It was fun at that time but things had to change. A simple thing like sprint should be in every FPS in my opinion. I did not like this “having bricks on your feed while trying to move like an octopus in a knight suit” That’s what the old Halo was if we are honest. If you liked that style then you should go and play it. I still hope for games to change and surprise me and adding sprint makes it more fun at least to me. Everyone has his opinion.
I wouldn’t say it damaged but it simply changed so much gameplay wise that it hardly feels like Halo anymore. I’d rather play a game that plays like Halo, even if it was slow. So you’re telling me that Halo should sacrifice it’s own way of doing things just to cater 100% to your tastes? So you’re suggesting that Halo should sacrifice it’s own unique gameplay for the sake of imitating other games? It being so slow and lame is only your opinion. The people who played Halo at it’s time more than appreciated it and it’s clear that it’s the case with so many people even today. In fact, Halo 5 and 4 literally plays the same speed as 3 and 2. Now that maps are stretched out, sprinting is the same as walking in Halo 3 or 2.
Things don’t necessarily have to change. Is that a rule? If so where did you get it from? Does it really need to change to the point it’s basically another shooter with a Halo skin? Sprint isn’t a simply thing. It requires the whole gameplay to be designed around it. No, variety and uniqueness are far more valuable than lack of variety and monotony.
Why should games change? We shouldn’t need to re adapt after every sequel. This is Halo and it must play like Halo. Microsoft could’ve made the team to build a game that played like Halo 5. But Halo must play like Halo. And what even is suprising about sprint? Since when was that a thing for simply putting your gun down so you can go sonic the hedgehog mode?
> 2533274968707582;12446:
> > 2533274871396650;12445:
> > I don’t understand why people want sprint removed, you wanna walk across the map in order to destroy the core and waste the defender’s time waiting for you?
> >
> > If sprint is not right for you, call your doctor.
>
>
> If you’re not already aware of fast game play without needing sprint, then please don’t respond until you get that video in your head.
High movement speed is not the same as fast gameplay. That match was a lot of running around with nothing happening with occasional bouts of shooting in-between.
> 2533274913913392;12449:
> > 2535434037793365;12448:
> > > 2533274913913392;12377:
> > > > 2533274818737568;12343:
> > > > > 2533274973685362;4:
> > > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Oh my… Again with the golden triangle crap… How in the world did H3 equipment fit in the triangle at all? They completely destroy it… Yet Halo 3 is the most successful Halo.
> > >
> > > The formula is imaginary and to say that only halos like that are good, we’d be left with Halo 1 and 2.
> >
> >
> > Equipment didn’t stop anybody from shooting, meleeing or grenading? You can do all three things in a bubble shield, regen field, power drainer, etc. The 2 sec animation doesn’t count. By that logic, grenades don’t support the golden triangle. And IIRC, the animations can almost be instantly canceled when you press any of the Golden Triangle buttons.
> >
> > Halo 2 obliterated the concept of Golden Triangle with SMG starts.
>
>
> Exacty. My point really is that the golden triangle shouldnt continually used as an argument. tsassi puts it well here
While I do agree with you to an extent, I’m afraid you misunderstood what I’m saying. Equipment didn’t stop anyone from shooting, meleeing or grenading. You can do all these things when you both have your equipment equipped and when you place it. Equipment basically acted as secondary grenades.
BUT, I don’t think Halo’s entire gameplay should follow this one rule. Such as vehicles, for example, most vehicles disable your ability to melee and grenade, but I still accept them in the game. Heck, there are vehicles such as the Mongoose that disable all 3 abilities, but I still think the Mongoose should stay. In fact, I believe if handled properly it can play a good role in Halo’s future gameplay.
Same goes for turrets. You can only shoot while using them, still, I think it’s acceptable to have.
In conclusion, I believe 343i should keep this rule in mind. But they shouldn’t base the entire game around it.
> 2533274812650916;12369:
> > 2533274818737568;12368:
> > > 2533274812650916;12366:
> > > > 2533274818737568;12343:
> > > > > 2533274973685362;4:
> > > > > didn’t even bother reading it because it is the dumbest topic out there right now. Just because it has sprint doesn’t mean its not Halo. It’s one whole mechanic, that’s it. If you don’t like sprint, don’t sprint. Problem solved.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Halo was made with a 3 part formula set up in mind.
> > > >
> > > > You have your grenades, melee, and weapons. Sprint wasn’t a part of that. The formula changed with Reach, now it is generally accepted as one of the best Halos, so returning to a 4 part formula (AA, melee, grenade, gun like Reach) would probably still work.
> > > >
> > > > Having the current gameplay with Charge, Thrust, GP, Sprint, grenade, melee, and weapons just won’t work. 7 parts is 4 too many.
> > > >
> > > > The population has also gone down faster in games that break the formula
> > >
> > >
> > > It is only considered one of the best Halo games by people who didn’t play the original trilogy, were too young to remember it, or people who don’t understand or care about Halo as an arena shooter.
> > >
> > > Reach had an immense amount of features and content in it and it all worked. That’s what it had going for it.
> > >
> > > I’ve said it many times and I’ll say it again: Reach was NOT a good game in terms of balance. It’s multi-player attempted to appeal to an audience that cared little for balance to begin with.
> > >
> > > It tried to appeal to people that didn’t enjoy Halo because of its balanced, skillful mechanics. It attempted to adopt the modern instant gratification formula and it didn’t work. It alienated long time Halo fans and those it tried to reel in were too busy indulging themselves in CoD Black Ops.
> >
> >
> > >Long Time Halo Fan (04)
> >
> > >Thinks Reach> Halo 2, CE, 4, 5
> >
> > >Has played all Halo games (even the Attack Synonym Games)
> >
> > “it had a lot of content, that’s it”
> >
> > And great gameplay.
>
>
> Like I said, OR people who don’t understand or care for Halo as an arena shooter. It’s multi-player was horribly imbalanced and it showed.
>
> I’m not saying 3, 4, or 5 are perfect or don’t have blemishes. They do and I could go on for days concerning those. But changing your utility weapon to an RNG based rifle while at the same time introducing mechanics that break map control, negate power weapons, defeat lines of sight, and being the first Halo game to introduce vehicles made out of paper mache.
>
> Yeah, it has glaring flaws in the game play coming from the perspective of a balanced arena shooter.
You notice the buildup between the new games? 3 started with equipment, Reach with AAs, and 4 with Sprint+AAs? We will need to wind down so the new players will get a chance to jump ship, and old will see “I see what you’re doing, 343!” Sometimes you need a change of pace, Reach brought it and got it out of everyone’s system, Halo 4 began to be overbearing.
How was it ihorribly imbalanced? I didn’t have any problems. What RNG based rifle? Everyone can choose from the same things, unlike Halo 5 where time or money can equal win.
“Break map control and power weapons rifle”
Like the BR in Halo 2?
“Paper mache vehicles”
A .50 caliber sniper rifle with AP ammo should do some damage. Not absolute tank killer damage, but some. The ones we have irl can pierce the armor of some if not most tanks. Standard UNSC gear isn’t far off from US military gear. Though, I can’t explain for the Covies.
If they copied Halo 3, added Halo Reach looking armor, as well as the vehicles looks at the Falcon I’d still be happy, because like I said, Reach & 3 were the best.
You saying I don’t care about Halo is an outright lie, kind sir.
> 2535429794399531;12373:
> > 2533274818737568;12368:
> > > 2533274812650916;12366:
> > > > 2533274818737568;12343:
> > > > > 2533274973685362;4:
> > > > > didn’t even bother reading it because it is the dumbest topic out there right now. Just because it has sprint doesn’t mean its not Halo. It’s one whole mechanic, that’s it. If you don’t like sprint, don’t sprint. Problem solved.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Halo was made with a 3 part formula set up in mind.
> > > >
> > > > You have your grenades, melee, and weapons. Sprint wasn’t a part of that. The formula changed with Reach, now it is generally accepted as one of the best Halos, so returning to a 4 part formula (AA, melee, grenade, gun like Reach) would probably still work.
> > > >
> > > > Having the current gameplay with Charge, Thrust, GP, Sprint, grenade, melee, and weapons just won’t work. 7 parts is 4 too many.
> > > >
> > > > The population has also gone down faster in games that break the formula
> > >
> > >
> > > It is only considered one of the best Halo games by people who didn’t play the original trilogy, were too young to remember it, or people who don’t understand or care about Halo as an arena shooter.
> > >
> > > Reach had an immense amount of features and content in it and it all worked. That’s what it had going for it.
> > >
> > > I’ve said it many times and I’ll say it again: Reach was NOT a good game in terms of balance. It’s multi-player attempted to appeal to an audience that cared little for balance to begin with.
> > >
> > > It tried to appeal to people that didn’t enjoy Halo because of its balanced, skillful mechanics. It attempted to adopt the modern instant gratification formula and it didn’t work. It alienated long time Halo fans and those it tried to reel in were too busy indulging themselves in CoD Black Ops.
> >
> >
> > >Long Time Halo Fan (04)
> >
> > >Thinks Reach> Halo 2, CE, 4, 5
> >
> > >Has played all Halo games (even the Attack Synonym Games)
> >
> > >Wants Halo to return to Arena gameplay
> >
> > “it had a lot of content, that’s it”
> >
> > And great gameplay.
>
>
> No offense but you played 11,000 h3 games and we’re a major grade 8000. You’re stuck in that low skill, low game knowledge bracket. From that perspective, I can understand why you enjoyed reach.
That’s because I had been using the temporary accounts. Not low skill, either. Most of the time was spent in customs with friends, so why bother signing in to XBL to be annoyed?
> 2533274855279867;12451:
> > 2533274968707582;12446:
> > > 2533274871396650;12445:
> > > I don’t understand why people want sprint removed, you wanna walk across the map in order to destroy the core and waste the defender’s time waiting for you?
> > >
> > > If sprint is not right for you, call your doctor.
> >
> >
> > If you’re not already aware of fast game play without needing sprint, then please don’t respond until you get that video in your head.
>
>
> High movement speed is not the same as fast gameplay. That match was a lot of running around with nothing happening with occasional bouts of shooting in-between.
Sprint which lets you move fast but nothing else vs moving quickly like sprint but still being able to do everything. Increasing BMS literally solves the so called “issue” of “too slow of gameplay”. I cannot understand why people can’t comprehend that Halo is not meant to as fast as other shooters. The original trilogy was plenty fast.
> 2533274871396650;12445:
> I don’t understand why people want sprint removed, you wanna walk across the map in order to destroy the core and waste the defender’s time waiting for you?
>
> If sprint is not right for you, call your doctor.
If you’ve read this thread and still think sprint actually makes gameplay faster, call your doctor. It’s been shown hundreds of times how sprint dosn’t make you any faster, it just losers the BMS and makes maps bigger to compensate, a higher BMS makes it so you can not only move but also fight at a faster speed.
> 2533274855279867;12451:
> > 2533274968707582;12446:
> > > 2533274871396650;12445:
> > > I don’t understand why people want sprint removed, you wanna walk across the map in order to destroy the core and waste the defender’s time waiting for you?
> > >
> > > If sprint is not right for you, call your doctor.
> >
> >
> > If you’re not already aware of fast game play without needing sprint, then please don’t respond until you get that video in your head.
>
>
> High movement speed is not the same as fast gameplay. That match was a lot of running around with nothing happening with occasional bouts of shooting in-between.
May not be the best example, but your point of how “high movement speed is not the same as fast gameplay” is something worth mentioning when arguing against sprint in regards to how it “speeds up game play.”
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274973685362;4:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > didn’t even bother reading it because it is the dumbest topic out there right now. Just because it has sprint doesn’t mean its not Halo. It’s one whole mechanic, that’s it. If you don’t like sprint, don’t sprint. Problem solved.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Halo was made with a 3 part formula set up in mind.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > You have your grenades, melee, and weapons. Sprint wasn’t a part of that. The formula changed with Reach, now it is generally accepted as one of the best Halos, so returning to a 4 part formula (AA, melee, grenade, gun like Reach) would probably still work.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Having the current gameplay with Charge, Thrust, GP, Sprint, grenade, melee, and weapons just won’t work. 7 parts is 4 too many.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > The population has also gone down faster in games that break the formula
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Oh my… Again with the golden triangle crap… How in the world did H3 equipment fit in the triangle at all? They completely destroy it… Yet Halo 3 is the most successful Halo.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > The formula is imaginary and to say that only halos like that are good, we’d be left with Halo 1 and 2.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Because equipment was almost never used, had to be found on maps, and most of them still had little affect on gameplay.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I don’t know about you but bubble shield, regen, and power drain were used all the time in my experience. The others, only on occasion. They were extremely irritating, and screwed up the flow. Much more than armor abilities ever did imo.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I disagree, AA’s are far more likely to alter the established game-play mechanics than a one use, map pick-up item.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > They are being deliberately annoying, don’t fall for it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > He’s literally disagreeing just to disagree with us at this point, even if it makes no sense.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > No I’m not. That is literally how I feel. Quit grouping me into the pro sprint crowd. I recognize I’m in the minority. I know that full well. My least favorite Halo multiplayer is the most popular. I dislike Halo 3 multiplayer. That my opinion. In my opinion, due to their extreme lack of balance, even more so than AA, and their unpredictability, I feel like equipment was way worse for gameplay than AAs. But that’s my opinion. And no, before you assume so, Halo 4 and Halo 5 are not my favorite multiplayers
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > How are equipment pickups worse? They were limited as not everyone could have one, you didn’t spawn with them off the bat, and they had timed spawns just like power weapons. It’s fine and dandy you don’t like equipment, I don’t either, but AA was much worse as they were the opposite of equipment pickups. I really don’t understand how you can see equipment being more unpredictable than AAs were at all.
> > >
> > >
> > > I found them more unpredictable for that very reason, they messed with the game flow.more than armor.abilities, but you didn’t know when someone had one because they were map pickups. They were not balanced as well as AAs, and their spawn timers were much more akin to regular weapons like the BR, plasma rifle, or carbine. There was usually quite a few runningnaround on maps and it wasnt an uncommon occurance to see 2-3 bubble shields deployed next toneachother simultaneously. That did a number on game flow. Almost all the positives of armor lock, without the downside of being stationary. And they last much longer too
> >
> >
> > Are you honestly trying to say H3 equipment had more of an affect on the game than Reach’s AAs did?
> >
> > That’s like saying the sniper gets used more in slayer than it does in team snipers.
>
>
> More of a negative affect. Difference. Also my opinion
So the bubble shield had a greater negative impact then armor lock? Just something I’ve added several times that you’ve failed to address. Does having a map pickup that you obtain through map control like power weapons not add to the skill gap. The affect on gameplay that equipment had could be negated by map control a. A good team playing well could seize the advantage, while in halo reach anyone can just come along and have an even more powerfull and reusable ability.
> 2547348539238747;12440:
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> > > > 2533274913913392;12377:
> > > > > 2533274818737568;12343:
> > > > > > 2533274973685362;4:
> > > > > > didn’t even bother reading it because it is the dumbest topic out there right now. Just because it has sprint doesn’t mean its not Halo. It’s one whole mechanic, that’s it. If you don’t like sprint, don’t sprint. Problem solved.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Halo was made with a 3 part formula set up in mind.
> > > > >
> > > > > You have your grenades, melee, and weapons. Sprint wasn’t a part of that. The formula changed with Reach, now it is generally accepted as one of the best Halos, so returning to a 4 part formula (AA, melee, grenade, gun like Reach) would probably still work.
> > > > >
> > > > > Having the current gameplay with Charge, Thrust, GP, Sprint, grenade, melee, and weapons just won’t work. 7 parts is 4 too many.
> > > > >
> > > > > The population has also gone down faster in games that break the formula
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Oh my… Again with the golden triangle crap… How in the world did H3 equipment fit in the triangle at all? They completely destroy it… Yet Halo 3 is the most successful Halo.
> > > >
> > > > The formula is imaginary and to say that only halos like that are good, we’d be left with Halo 1 and 2.
> > >
> > >
> > > That’s like saying that power ups and vehicles completely destroy the triangle too.
> > >
> > > AAs and SAs affect every fight you enter. Pick ups, and one use items like power ups, vehicles and equipment have to be collected, fought for and used correctly (i.e. not wasted or spammed).
> >
> >
> > That doesn’t mean that they don’t destroy the triangle, which frankly is a made up idea that hasnt really been adhered to since Halo 2. Where does bubble shield, regenerator, power drain, or any other equipment fit into “weapons, grenades, melee”?
>
>
> Where does vehicles or power ups fit?.
No one ever claimed that the golden triangle applied to anything outside of infantry combat and powerups don’t make you stop shooting except for the short activation which wasn’t in halo 3 anyway.
> 2533274818737568;12453:
> > 2533274812650916;12369:
> > > 2533274818737568;12368:
> > > > 2533274812650916;12366:
> > > > > 2533274818737568;12343:
> > > > > > 2533274973685362;4:
> > > > > > didn’t even bother reading it because it is the dumbest topic out there right now. Just because it has sprint doesn’t mean its not Halo. It’s one whole mechanic, that’s it. If you don’t like sprint, don’t sprint. Problem solved.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Halo was made with a 3 part formula set up in mind.
> > > > >
> > > > > You have your grenades, melee, and weapons. Sprint wasn’t a part of that. The formula changed with Reach, now it is generally accepted as one of the best Halos, so returning to a 4 part formula (AA, melee, grenade, gun like Reach) would probably still work.
> > > > >
> > > > > Having the current gameplay with Charge, Thrust, GP, Sprint, grenade, melee, and weapons just won’t work. 7 parts is 4 too many.
> > > > >
> > > > > The population has also gone down faster in games that break the formula
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > It is only considered one of the best Halo games by people who didn’t play the original trilogy, were too young to remember it, or people who don’t understand or care about Halo as an arena shooter.
> > > >
> > > > Reach had an immense amount of features and content in it and it all worked. That’s what it had going for it.
> > > >
> > > > I’ve said it many times and I’ll say it again: Reach was NOT a good game in terms of balance. It’s multi-player attempted to appeal to an audience that cared little for balance to begin with.
> > > >
> > > > It tried to appeal to people that didn’t enjoy Halo because of its balanced, skillful mechanics. It attempted to adopt the modern instant gratification formula and it didn’t work. It alienated long time Halo fans and those it tried to reel in were too busy indulging themselves in CoD Black Ops.
> > >
> > >
> > > >Long Time Halo Fan (04)
> > >
> > > >Thinks Reach> Halo 2, CE, 4, 5
> > >
> > > >Has played all Halo games (even the Attack Synonym Games)
> > >
> > > “it had a lot of content, that’s it”
> > >
> > > And great gameplay.
> >
> >
> > Like I said, OR people who don’t understand or care for Halo as an arena shooter. It’s multi-player was horribly imbalanced and it showed.
> >
> > I’m not saying 3, 4, or 5 are perfect or don’t have blemishes. They do and I could go on for days concerning those. But changing your utility weapon to an RNG based rifle while at the same time introducing mechanics that break map control, negate power weapons, defeat lines of sight, and being the first Halo game to introduce vehicles made out of paper mache.
> >
> > Yeah, it has glaring flaws in the game play coming from the perspective of a balanced arena shooter.
>
>
> You notice the buildup between the new games? 3 started with equipment, Reach with AAs, and 4 with Sprint+AAs? We will need to wind down so the new players will get a chance to jump ship, and old will see “I see what you’re doing, 343!” Sometimes you need a change of pace, Reach brought it and got it out of everyone’s system, Halo 4 began to be overbearing.
>
> How was it ihorribly imbalanced? I didn’t have any problems. What RNG based rifle? Everyone can choose from the same things, unlike Halo 5 where time or money can equal win.
>
> “Break map control and power weapons rifle”
>
> Like the BR in Halo 2?
>
> “Paper mache vehicles”
>
> A .50 caliber sniper rifle with AP ammo should do some damage. Not absolute tank killer damage, but some. The ones we have irl can pierce the armor of some if not most tanks. Standard UNSC gear isn’t far off from US military gear. Though, I can’t explain for the Covies.
>
> If they copied Halo 3, added Halo Reach looking armor, as well as the vehicles looks at the Falcon I’d still be happy, because like I said, Reach & 3 were the best.
>
> You saying I don’t care about Halo is an outright lie, kind sir.
Couple of things wrong with this post but the biggest issue is definitely the cherry picking. You can’t purposely convolute what I say to make a point.
Such as when you claimed I said you don’t care about Halo. No, I said that you don’t care for Halo as an arena shooter. Meaning, balance isn’t high on the list of priorities. There are thousands of people who buy Halo games for reasons other than the multi-player and I would never suggest that they simply don’t care about Halo.
But to the meat of the post…
Im not really sure what you’re getting at with the first portion of your argument. You seem to be implying that Halo had this formula is was destined to follow and progress towards. And also saying that game developers are essentially manipulating player bases to “get things out of their systems,”
I think you’re kind of projecting and assuming there. Reach introduced a lot of needless chaos into the Halo formula and you’re assuming that it was introduced because it was NEEDED and that players wanted to feel that CoD style of gameplay.
No… if they wanted that type of gameplay wouldn’t they play the game that does the CoD formula much better? Like Call of Duty itself?
They wasted years of potential creative development that could have been used to expand on Halos strengths. Instead the opted to take chapters (not pages) out of other people’s books and pray that the players would fall for it.
We didn’t.
As for the RNG based rifle, I’m talking about the DMR and bloom. That singlehandedly destroyed competitive gameplay. I know this forum holds open disdain for competitive communities but not only is that unwarranted it sets a dangerous precedent.
“2 men enter, the better man leaves, the lesser man is respawning. That’s Halo.”
-Luke Smith
That was no longer the case.
Two men enter, one man mashes his trigger like a fool and HOPES for the best. The other man opts for discipline and times his bloom perfectly, making sure each shot lands where he’s aiming.
The one mashing his trigger leaves. Is he the better man? Maybe, maybe not. But it’s not like we’ll ever know because the encounter was based on luck.
And then you make the claim that the Halo 2 BR destroyed map control.
Please tell me how? Because it promoted smart decision making and teamwork above all else. Ran out in the middle of Lockout with no cover, didn’t communicate to your team what your goal was? I hope the enemy enjoys their free kill.
Lastly, you discuss Reach vehicles like the only thing that was a threat that wasn’t before was the sniper rifle. No, a DMR could destroy warthogs, and focused fire could destroy tanks. A sniper rifle was a legitimate threat to a tank. Now, you say these weapons behave similarly to what the US military uses. Being active duty in the Marine Corps infantry, I may or may not know a thing or two about this particular subject… and I’ll just say that if my M4 could convince a tank to back off I’d be pretty impressed with myself.
Also please excuse typos. I’m posting from my phone and I have fat thumbs.
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> > > > > > > didn’t even bother reading it because it is the dumbest topic out there right now. Just because it has sprint doesn’t mean its not Halo. It’s one whole mechanic, that’s it. If you don’t like sprint, don’t sprint. Problem solved.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Halo was made with a 3 part formula set up in mind.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You have your grenades, melee, and weapons. Sprint wasn’t a part of that. The formula changed with Reach, now it is generally accepted as one of the best Halos, so returning to a 4 part formula (AA, melee, grenade, gun like Reach) would probably still work.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Having the current gameplay with Charge, Thrust, GP, Sprint, grenade, melee, and weapons just won’t work. 7 parts is 4 too many.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The population has also gone down faster in games that break the formula
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Oh my… Again with the golden triangle crap… How in the world did H3 equipment fit in the triangle at all? They completely destroy it… Yet Halo 3 is the most successful Halo.
> > > > >
> > > > > The formula is imaginary and to say that only halos like that are good, we’d be left with Halo 1 and 2.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > That’s like saying that power ups and vehicles completely destroy the triangle too.
> > > >
> > > > AAs and SAs affect every fight you enter. Pick ups, and one use items like power ups, vehicles and equipment have to be collected, fought for and used correctly (i.e. not wasted or spammed).
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > That doesn’t mean that they don’t destroy the triangle, which frankly is a made up idea that hasnt really been adhered to since Halo 2. Where does bubble shield, regenerator, power drain, or any other equipment fit into “weapons, grenades, melee”?
> >
> >
> > Where does vehicles or power ups fit?.
>
>
> No one ever claimed that the golden triangle applied to anything outside of infantry combat and powerups don’t make you stop shooting except for the short activation which wasn’t in halo 3 anyway.
Right, but my point is this. Equipments are map pick ups, just like vehicles and power ups. Or even power weapons. You have to collect them and use them at the right time for them to be effective.
AAs and SAs are a constant thing. Players didn’t earn them, they dont have to use them wisely. They can spam them all they want, with every life.
The nature of equipment fits better with classic Halo. It’s map control/map specific tweaks vs player focused advancements. So instead of certain abilities, say for instance grav lift, only being on certain maps. With AAs, now every one has a jetpack and can do it on any map, all the time. It breaks the maps, it breaks the design of the game. Imagine High Ground and instead of the four entry points to the base (bunker, pipe, grav lift, button door) you have enemy team members flying over the wall. It takes away the flow of the map.
Certain Affinity continued this ‘map vs player’ advancement idea with Halo 2A. Instead of offering more to the player they offered more to the maps. Adding in more dynamic features like shields structures, emp devices etc.
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> > > > > > > 2533274818737568;12343:
> > > > > > > > 2533274973685362;4:
> > > > > > > > didn’t even bother reading it because it is the dumbest topic out there right now. Just because it has sprint doesn’t mean its not Halo. It’s one whole mechanic, that’s it. If you don’t like sprint, don’t sprint. Problem solved.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Halo was made with a 3 part formula set up in mind.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You have your grenades, melee, and weapons. Sprint wasn’t a part of that. The formula changed with Reach, now it is generally accepted as one of the best Halos, so returning to a 4 part formula (AA, melee, grenade, gun like Reach) would probably still work.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Having the current gameplay with Charge, Thrust, GP, Sprint, grenade, melee, and weapons just won’t work. 7 parts is 4 too many.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The population has also gone down faster in games that break the formula
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Oh my… Again with the golden triangle crap… How in the world did H3 equipment fit in the triangle at all? They completely destroy it… Yet Halo 3 is the most successful Halo.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The formula is imaginary and to say that only halos like that are good, we’d be left with Halo 1 and 2.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > That’s like saying that power ups and vehicles completely destroy the triangle too.
> > > > >
> > > > > AAs and SAs affect every fight you enter. Pick ups, and one use items like power ups, vehicles and equipment have to be collected, fought for and used correctly (i.e. not wasted or spammed).
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > That doesn’t mean that they don’t destroy the triangle, which frankly is a made up idea that hasnt really been adhered to since Halo 2. Where does bubble shield, regenerator, power drain, or any other equipment fit into “weapons, grenades, melee”?
> > >
> > >
> > > Where does vehicles or power ups fit?.
> >
> >
> > No one ever claimed that the golden triangle applied to anything outside of infantry combat and powerups don’t make you stop shooting except for the short activation which wasn’t in halo 3 anyway.
>
>
> Right, but my point is this. Equipments are map pick ups, just like vehicles and power ups. Or even power weapons. You have to collect them and use them at the right time for them to be effective.
>
> AAs and SAs are a constant thing. Players didn’t earn them, they dont have to use them wisely. They can spam them all they want, with every life.
>
> The nature of equipment fits better with classic Halo. It’s map control/map specific tweaks vs player focused advancements. So instead of certain abilities, say for instance grav lift, only being on certain maps. With AAs, now every one has a jetpack and can do it on any map, all the time. It breaks the maps, it breaks the design of the game. Imagine High Ground and instead of the four entry points to the base (bunker, pipe, grav lift, button door) you have enemy team members flying over the wall. It takes away the flow of the map.
>
> Certain Affinity continued this ‘mapi vs player’ advancement idea with Halo 2A. Instead of offering more to the player they offered more to the maps. Adding in more dynamic features like shields structures, emp devices etc.
I never mentioned equipment, in fact I’ve used the same argument you just used against others several times. I was just stating that equipment and powerups don’t break the triangle because power ups in halo 3 had no activation cutscene and equipment are like tactical grenades.
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> > > > > > 2533274818737568;12343:
> > > > > > > 2533274973685362;4:
> > > > > > > didn’t even bother reading it because it is the dumbest topic out there right now. Just because it has sprint doesn’t mean its not Halo. It’s one whole mechanic, that’s it. If you don’t like sprint, don’t sprint. Problem solved.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Halo was made with a 3 part formula set up in mind.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You have your grenades, melee, and weapons. Sprint wasn’t a part of that. The formula changed with Reach, now it is generally accepted as one of the best Halos, so returning to a 4 part formula (AA, melee, grenade, gun like Reach) would probably still work.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Having the current gameplay with Charge, Thrust, GP, Sprint, grenade, melee, and weapons just won’t work. 7 parts is 4 too many.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The population has also gone down faster in games that break the formula
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > It is only considered one of the best Halo games by people who didn’t play the original trilogy, were too young to remember it, or people who don’t understand or care about Halo as an arena shooter.
> > > > >
> > > > > Reach had an immense amount of features and content in it and it all worked. That’s what it had going for it.
> > > > >
> > > > > I’ve said it many times and I’ll say it again: Reach was NOT a good game in terms of balance. It’s multi-player attempted to appeal to an audience that cared little for balance to begin with.
> > > > >
> > > > > It tried to appeal to people that didn’t enjoy Halo because of its balanced, skillful mechanics. It attempted to adopt the modern instant gratification formula and it didn’t work. It alienated long time Halo fans and those it tried to reel in were too busy indulging themselves in CoD Black Ops.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >Long Time Halo Fan (04)
> > > >
> > > > >Thinks Reach> Halo 2, CE, 4, 5
> > > >
> > > > >Has played all Halo games (even the Attack Synonym Games)
> > > >
> > > > “it had a lot of content, that’s it”
> > > >
> > > > And great gameplay.
>
>
> Couple of things wrong with this post but the biggest issue is definitely the cherry picking. You can’t purposely convolute what I say to make a point.
>
> Such as when you claimed I said you don’t care about Halo. No, I said that you don’t care for Halo as an arena shooter. Meaning, balance isn’t high on the list of priorities. There are thousands of people who buy Halo games for reasons other than the multi-player and I would never suggest that they simply don’t care about Halo.
>
> But to the meat of the post…
>
> Im not really sure what you’re getting at with the first portion of your argument. You seem to be implying that Halo had this formula is was destined to follow and progress towards. And also saying that game developers are essentially manipulating player bases to “get things out of their systems,”
>
> I think you’re kind of projecting and assuming there. Reach introduced a lot of needless chaos into the Halo formula and you’re assuming that it was introduced because it was NEEDED and that players wanted to feel that CoD style of gameplay.
>
> No… if they wanted that type of gameplay wouldn’t they play the game that does the CoD formula much better? Like Call of Duty itself?
>
> They wasted years of potential creative development that could have been used to expand on Halos strengths. Instead the opted to take chapters (not pages) out of other people’s books and pray that the players would fall for it.
>
> We didn’t.
>
> As for the RNG based rifle, I’m talking about the DMR and bloom. That singlehandedly destroyed competitive gameplay. I know this forum holds open disdain for competitive communities but not only is that unwarranted it sets a dangerous precedent.
>
> “2 men enter, the better man leaves, the lesser man is respawning. That’s Halo.”
> -Luke Smith
>
> That was no longer the case.
>
> Two men enter, one man mashes his trigger like a fool and HOPES for the best. The other man opts for discipline and times his bloom perfectly, making sure each shot lands where he’s aiming.
>
> The one mashing his trigger leaves. Is he the better man? Maybe, maybe not. But it’s not like we’ll ever know because the encounter was based on luck.
>
> And then you make the claim that the Halo 2 BR destroyed map control.
>
> Please tell me how? Because it promoted smart decision making and teamwork above all else. Ran out in the middle of Lockout with no cover, didn’t communicate to your team what your goal was? I hope the enemy enjoys their free kill.
>
> Lastly, you discuss Reach vehicles like the only thing that was a threat that wasn’t before was the sniper rifle. No, a DMR could destroy warthogs, and focused fire could destroy tanks. A sniper rifle was a legitimate threat to a tank. Now, you say these weapons behave similarly to what the US military uses. Being active duty in the Marine Corps infantry, I may or may not know a thing or two about this particular subject… and I’ll just say that if my M4 could convince a tank to back off I’d be pretty impressed with myself.
>
> Also please excuse typos. I’m posting from my phone and I have fat thumbs.
Typos excused, I do the same and WP has crazy autocorrect (how the flub doesn’t “be” turn into “become”??? I spelled right, I saw it!)
Yeah, I can agree that a single DMR shouldn’t kill tanks, but focused fire is fair. Back in Halo 3, the same with BRs could kill a Hog. Not a tank, sure, but the point is the same.
Blinded by nostaliga on Halo 2. Every single match in H2 MCC I’ve played, my BR>their rocket launcher.
There be a difference between map control, bad teamwork, and being an idiot who runs into the middle of the map with no cover.
Bad teamwork= not communicating/ not sticking together
Being an idiot= running out
Map control= holding key points
Power weapon control= hogging power weapons.
You can have map or power weapon control without the other, one just makes the other easier.
That’s not RNG, RNG would be a DMR with a 1/1000 chance to become a Scarab Gun. Bloom was the lighting effect if I recall, and the reduced it several times. Didn’t bothered me either way. Never had an effect on my fights.
Halo and arena gameplay are one in the same. Saying I don’t care about one is the same for the other.
I never said “let’s copy every last thing” I said let’s copy the gameplay. You know, grenade limits, Elite/Spartan changes, vehicles (the sandbox in general), maps (muh FW), game modes. That kind of thing.
“Couple of things wrong”
I happen to say you’re wrong. See? Doesn’t work like that. Opinions aren’t facts. I stated many old timers fancy Reach over the current system, which is true. I don’t recall saying “every last Halo fan says Reach>the rest and if you disagree you’re racist”. Except I’m not MSNBC, and Halo isn’t in political power.
“Get things out of the system”
Sometimes a series has to try new things on their own. I remember a time when, due to equipment, PP EMP, and hijack stun, Halo 3 was “too much like CoD”. Had the conversation so many times in 07-09 in MM.
I never said Halo needed to change. I said experimentation is helpful. Imagine if every Halo was like CoD, where we just stay exactly like Halo CE for 15 years. Even Cod is copying Reach with Fracture, which is Headhunter with data disks instead of skulls.
Say this with me-“I can’t and shouldn’t speak for other people”. You make rules for me in your first sentence, so I’ll match you 1-1. You saying I dont care for arena is speaking for me.
Halo had, originally, a golden triangle formula, grenade, gun, melee. Reach broke it. If you look at some of my other posts, you’ll see I said Halo 3 is the only Halo I think could, in pure gameplay, beat EVERY other FPS Spartan Halo. Wars I can’t compare because RTS, and ODST because it was a story main.
Heres why I care about Halo being competitive- I make maps. When I’m not playing Arena, I’m in Forge