> 2533274818737568;12343:
> > 2533274973685362;4:
> > didn’t even bother reading it because it is the dumbest topic out there right now. Just because it has sprint doesn’t mean its not Halo. It’s one whole mechanic, that’s it. If you don’t like sprint, don’t sprint. Problem solved.
>
>
> Reach, now it is generally accepted as one of the best Halos
Reach’s MP was utterly terrible.
<mark>This post has been edited by a moderator. Please refrain from making non-constructive posts.</mark>
*Original post. Click at your own discretion.
> 2533274818737568;12343:
> > 2533274973685362;4:
> > didn’t even bother reading it because it is the dumbest topic out there right now. Just because it has sprint doesn’t mean its not Halo. It’s one whole mechanic, that’s it. If you don’t like sprint, don’t sprint. Problem solved.
>
>
> Reach, now it is generally accepted as one of the best Halos
LMAO.
> 2533274886529017;12341:
> > 2533275035781111;12330:
> > Any change is potentially alienating, just because you like somethings dosn’t mean evreyone does. Not that I dislike the DMR but it did change the sandbox in a way that could be viewed as negative.
>
>
> How in any way was the DMR a negative or alienating change, though? I’m going to veer off topic briefly, but bar bloom, the DMR had the BR’s near appearance with the CE Magnum’s consistent performance (Bar strength). Literally the best of both worlds while being a legitimately solid weapon in a Halo game for the first time in 9 years. And remember, there’s a difference between legitimate alienation, and simply disliking something. People may not like the DMR and that’s fine, but it’s far from alienating.
If people don’t like the DMR then it qualifies as alienating. Again, not that I don’t like it but just because you and I like it dosn’t mean that evreyone does.
> 2533274866652866;12337:
> > 2535434037793365;12327:
> > > 2533274866652866;12324:
> > > > 2533274959219282;12304:
> > > > > 2535424310227895;12303:
> > > > > > 2533274959219282;12300:
> > > > > > > 2535424310227895;12297:
> > > > > > > This post has been edited by a moderator. Please refrain from making non-constructive posts.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > *Original post. Click at your own discretion.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > 2549359074790154;12236:
> > > > > > > > > 2533274893435999;12233:
> > > > > > > > > THE ALL NEW SPACE MARINE SUPER SOLDIER. CAPABLE OF DESTROYING COVENANT FLEETS ALL BY THEMSELVES. AND ARE SMARTER FASTER AND STRONGER THEN ANY OTHER MARINE.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > So ummm, whats his abilities…
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Welp…he can maybe run…or maybe hit something with a charge I’m still deciding.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > So you’re going to use Halo Lore as the basis for why we should be able to sprint? I guess we should be able to grab missiles and toss them back since that was done in the books also.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I’m so tired of this over used argument… that and the old argument of “Well if you hate sprinting you should just not sprint”.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Here JoelWelsh1998Hunterkiller040SORZUSZANEWatch this
> > > > > > > > Sprint in Halo is an illusion and CAN NOT be Defended! (Please Read The Description) - YouTube
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Don’t you find it bizarre that this is the only community I know of that has a thread of over 2000+ comments that argue over a game mechanic that lets you run faster. Talk about pathetic, sprint is a tool that when used correctly is a benefit and when used incorrectly is a drawback. As for the youtube vid you linked *slow clap. I cant believe that this guy just wasted 10 minutes of oxygen -Yoinking!- like a little girl about a game mechanic that makes you run a little faster.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Err you miss the point entirely. It changes the map design and whole feel of the game. Games work without it, halo did. It’s not halo anymore. No more tight small maps with intricate skill jumps. No more hard punish if you get caught in the open, no more skill based shortcuts, like narrows where players found jumps to get from top mid to man cannon. Now we have huuuuuge maps with a million corridors and escape routes. Its all been changed to accommodate sprint, to the point where it only looks like halo, a cheap plastic one at that. In terms of feel its nothing like halo. All you will do is post a response that does’nt answer what I brought up, if you bother at all. There was no need to change the game it was FINE. 343 tried to make it like other games no one wanted that so we all quit. Now it has sprint and 30,000 players woohoo its down to 10 percent of the players who would be on regular in 3.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Uhh didn’t all the older halo games have huge maps? Sidewinder, Blood Gulch etc. Consider this please. Now look the whole basis around this sprint argument is that it has influenced map design, ok i’m inclined to agree slightly. However the idea that the influence of sprint has caused maps to be larger than before is in my opinion untrue. Cause we have always had big maps and also small maps, now though we can just get to one side of the map faster than before.
> > > > > In my original post to you I wasn’t attempting to answer the issues you brought up because I don’t see an issue I frankly could care less if we had sprint or didn’t have sprint, bear in mind this, I knew someone who hadn’t played halo before and we set up a LAN in college to play halo CE and the first thing he said when playing the game is that he wished he had sprint cause to him it felt way too slow, now that’s a point worth noting I think.
> > > > > And finally to address the issue you bring up at the end of your post. Look it isn’t 2007 anymore, times have changed for better or for worse depends on your perspective, however the idea that the decrease in player population is a result of Sprint alone is not the case at all.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Those maps are big team maps bro smh. What I’m saying is even the 4v4 maps are now big. Its irreverent. If you want sprint play a different game, we have had our game taken. No it isn just sprint the whole game is nothing like halo. We want HALO it can never be halo with sprint it changes it far too much. The game is just bad now, hadly anyone likes it. We will never get what we want anyway, quake fans got a new classic quake. So maybe its best if halo dies for 10 years and comes back classic.
> > >
> > >
> > > Well thats your opinion but i like halo 5, it still has 4v4,fair starts, skill jumps, good maps. Dont tell people to go play other games, not everyone sees that sprint ruins halo. Halo 5 needs a classic playlist were bms, weapon damage, grenade bounce need to be altered. Everyone on here is a halo fan.
> >
> >
> > Skill jumps aren’t as there considering the addition of clamber which ultimately makes traversal of maps much easier. Many games have good maps, but ultimately it doesn’t make it more Halo. The maps are still designed differently and stretched out.
> >
> > Sprint doesn’t ruin Halo. It fundamentally changes Halo. If I want to play a game where sprint and enhanced movement belongs, I will play the other games that have so. But when I want to play Halo, I want to play a Halo game that offers it’s a unique experience that it created when it first came out. I don’t mind evolving, I don’t mind slightly changing it, all I want is for 343i to take influence from 1-3 (not Reach) and try to go back to the franchise’s fundamentals and improving and expanding upon it.
> >
> > Classic playlists won’t do what I just suggested. Nobody in the right mind will play a Halo 2.5 or a Halo 3.5 every single new Halo title is released. I mean, it might sound good in paper, but ultimately what we want is a new Halo game that doesn’t negatively impact the fundamentals of the game.
>
>
> Thats fine, and i respect that so how would you make a halo 6 game that is similar to halo 3 but not just a cut and copy? If this question sounds aggressive its not meant to be i just want to know.
The same way any other series progresses, new maps, a few new guns, a new enemy type, changes to customization, a faster BMS and some new equipment. Add to the formula without loosing the formula.
> 2533274818737568;12343:
> > 2533274973685362;4:
> > didn’t even bother reading it because it is the dumbest topic out there right now. Just because it has sprint doesn’t mean its not Halo. It’s one whole mechanic, that’s it. If you don’t like sprint, don’t sprint. Problem solved.
>
>
> Halo was made with a 3 part formula set up in mind.
>
> You have your grenades, melee, and weapons. Sprint wasn’t a part of that. The formula changed with Reach, now it is generally accepted as one of the best Halos, so returning to a 4 part formula (AA, melee, grenade, gun like Reach) would probably still work.
>
> Having the current gameplay with Charge, Thrust, GP, Sprint, grenade, melee, and weapons just won’t work. 7 parts is 4 too many.
>
> The population has also gone down faster in games that break the formula
Considered decent at best, and that’s because 4, mcc and 5 are beyond terrible. The stuff reach added was nearly all bad in terms of gameplay and physics. Halo 2 and halo 3 are about as perfect example of real online halo. Those were the two games that drew the most people, obviously with halo 2 it’s numbers were big for og xbox live, the numbers don’t look as impressive as they are. The game works fine as a slow arena game. If you want a fast arena shooter play quake, if you want fast paced run and gun play COD. If you want a slower high Leathality game you have BF. If you want to play a slow halo style arena shooter you now have no choice. Except I forgot in the world of halo 5 fans the mcc works. It’s getting ridiculous, soon some of the ex bungie guys will probably make a kickstarter to make a halo 3 clone without the licence. It worked for the ex rare guys making yooka laylee (banjo kazooie spiritual successor).
> 2533275035781111;12346:
> > 2533274886529017;12341:
> > > 2533275035781111;12330:
> > > Any change is potentially alienating, just because you like somethings dosn’t mean evreyone does. Not that I dislike the DMR but it did change the sandbox in a way that could be viewed as negative.
> >
> >
> > How in any way was the DMR a negative or alienating change, though? I’m going to veer off topic briefly, but bar bloom, the DMR had the BR’s near appearance with the CE Magnum’s consistent performance (Bar strength). Literally the best of both worlds while being a legitimately solid weapon in a Halo game for the first time in 9 years. And remember, there’s a difference between legitimate alienation, and simply disliking something. People may not like the DMR and that’s fine, but it’s far from alienating.
>
>
> If people don’t like the DMR then it qualifies as alienating. Again, not that I don’t like it but just because you and I like it dosn’t mean that evreyone does.
The dmr sucked it was too easy to hit long range shots, it was nothing like the br.
> 2533274818737568;12343:
> > 2533274973685362;4:
> > didn’t even bother reading it because it is the dumbest topic out there right now. Just because it has sprint doesn’t mean its not Halo. It’s one whole mechanic, that’s it. If you don’t like sprint, don’t sprint. Problem solved.
>
>
> The formula changed with Reach, now it is generally accepted as one of the best Halos.
> 2533274909445208;12350:
> > 2533274818737568;12343:
> > > 2533274973685362;4:
> > > didn’t even bother reading it because it is the dumbest topic out there right now. Just because it has sprint doesn’t mean its not Halo. It’s one whole mechanic, that’s it. If you don’t like sprint, don’t sprint. Problem solved.
> >
> >
> > The formula changed with Reach, now it is generally accepted as one of the best Halos.
>
>
> Most Popular Halos (in terms of consistent population)
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> 1. Halo 3
> 2. Halo 2
> 3. Halo: CE
> 4. Halo: Reach (only had a lot of sales due to hype off of H3, people started returning the game shortly after and the population heavily declined)
> 5. Halo 5
> 6. Halo 4
Can you give a precise definition of “consistent population”? Because this list isn’t consistent on the basis of definitions I can think of. Not to mention, unless you are basing this on sales alone—which you aren’t as far as I can tell because the ordering isn’t consistent with that—Halo CE has no place on that list because no data exists for it other than sales data.
> 2535429794399531;12342:
> > 2533274866652866;12336:
> > > 2535429794399531;12328:
> > > > 2533274866652866;12326:
> > > > > 2535429794399531;12315:
> > > > > > 2533274913913392;12313:
> > > > > > > 2535429794399531;12312:
> > > > > > > > 2533274913913392;12273:
> > > > > > > > > 2535429794399531;12240:
> > > > > > > > > Sprint killed Halo. Absolutely killed it. Game cannot hold a population at all ever since sprint was introduced. It just doesn’t fit and it fundamentally alters the game.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Game absolutely cannot hold a population since the elites changed design, since the DMR was introduced, since the magnum had a scope reintroduced, so are those reason’s for Halo’s fall as well?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Just saying sprint is the reason is pure speculation.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > None of those things fundementally changed gameplay and map design.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Either way. Its still speculation. There’s no hard evidence of sprint being the cause of Halo’s decline
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > There’s no evidence saying it isn’t.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > If you look at the sales for halo reach they are the second highest in the franchise, and someone posted the stats for how long reachs population lasted which was the 2nd or 3rd longest in the series. Reach had sprint and i could argue that it was successful as a halo game. There are many reasons why halo is no longer selling 9 million plus copies one being that the FPS genre has shifted, the gaming market has changed by being more competitive, the xbox one not selling as many copies and sprint may play a factor in their sale numbers. Sprint is part of the sales problem but is not the main reason for low sales.
> > >
> > >
> > > Reach dropped to 7th place on the xbl charts a couple months after release. It took a nose dive. Being 3rd means little when HCE had no online and h3/3 are miles ahead of everything else. Reach sold well off the coattails of h3.
> > >
> > > Competition has hardly raised. The xb1 is outselling the 360. The xb1 does have RROD. The attach rate to xbl is higher than ever.
> > >
> > > You’re are factually incorrect on practically every point you made.
> >
> >
> > So you made no reference to how your numbers affected sprint which was the premise of my point. Here are a couple of facts, reach’s population had 400,000 minimum playing until 2012. Thats two years after its release date. You mentioned that reach dropped to 7th place on xbl. I would argue that that doesnt mean much considering the population was still high and if you compare reach’s numbers to halo 3 numbers of june a year after their release the population was very similar. I would also add that 7th place on the xbl doesnt mean much because in 2011 COD modern warfare 3 released selling over 14 million copies. This is would explain that drop to 7th place.
> >
> > You said that competition has hardly changed, this couldn’t be more wrong. Any COD game sold before 2006 sold less than 3 million copies, while after this period it sold upwards of 5 million and as high as 14 million. Coincidentally 2006 is the same time COD brought in regenerative health which they got from halo. Combine those sell numbers with battlefield with it’s last two game 3, 4 which sold over 7 million in 2011 before this time they only sold around 2 million. This increase in sales of other games could mean that population for other games dont last as long. So my point is that competition has certainly changed for halo, other games have become successful.
> >
> > And to say i was factually incorrect about reach being the 2nd best selling and 2nd best at holding the population was WRONG.
> >
> > My point in the previous thread was that some people are saying that sprint is the cause of sell numbers, while i dont disagree with this (because obviously people dont like sprint which is apparent in the thread) it cannot be said that sell numbers are entirely due to sprint.
>
>
> Where is your proof of these claims? I know that they are pretty much all incorrect so you’re going to have to prove it.
>
> Franchises that have existed just as long or longer than halo growing is not increased competition. That is just halo starting to lose vs the same competition.
and the game sales was from Vgcharts.
Not sure the OP argument makes sense.
“Lets face it, sprint has NO place in competitive Halo and to argue that it does would just be absurd.”
But based on what, just the fact that you don’t like it?
For it to have no place in competitive Halo, surely it would have to have competitive ramifications, and as everyone can sprint, it just doesn’t.
It’s a significant development for gameplay, future canon, and future gameplay, which really seems like a good thing.
> 2574155679902465;12353:
> surely it would have to have competitive ramifications, and as everyone can sprint, it just doesn’t.
The OP hasn’t posted on Waypoint in months, so you likely won’t be getting any response from that direction. But I’ll address the above claim because it’s simply untrue. “Everyone can use it” does not mean that a mechanic has no negative effects on competitive play (which I assume you mean by “competitive ramifications”). For example, consider if every player in the game could activate infinite invisibility at the press of a button. Now, everyone can use it, but it’s clear that this stops the whole game in its tracks right at the start as everyone becomes invincible, and the game can’t progress because no one can be killed. This is clearly a negative effect. Therefore the claim that a mechanic anyone can use can’t have negative effects on competitive play is clearly false.
> 2574155679902465;12353:
> It’s a significant development for gameplay, future canon, and future gameplay, which really seems like a good thing.
A “significant development” is not necessarily a good thing. Case in point, the above invincibility ability would undoubtedly be a “significant development” for gameplay (and—it could be argued—for future canon), but it would not be a positive development. You need to elaborate more on how sprint is a good thing.
> 2533274866652866;12352:
> > 2535429794399531;12342:
> > > 2533274866652866;12336:
> > > > 2535429794399531;12328:
> > > > > 2533274866652866;12326:
> > > > > > 2535429794399531;12315:
> > > > > > > 2533274913913392;12313:
> > > > > > > > 2535429794399531;12312:
> > > > > > > > > 2533274913913392;12273:
> > > > > > > > > > 2535429794399531;12240:
> > > > > > > > > > Sprint killed Halo. Absolutely killed it. Game cannot hold a population at all ever since sprint was introduced. It just doesn’t fit and it fundamentally alters the game.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Game absolutely cannot hold a population since the elites changed design, since the DMR was introduced, since the magnum had a scope reintroduced, so are those reason’s for Halo’s fall as well?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Just saying sprint is the reason is pure speculation.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > None of those things fundementally changed gameplay and map design.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Either way. Its still speculation. There’s no hard evidence of sprint being the cause of Halo’s decline
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There’s no evidence saying it isn’t.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > If you look at the sales for halo reach they are the second highest in the franchise, and someone posted the stats for how long reachs population lasted which was the 2nd or 3rd longest in the series. Reach had sprint and i could argue that it was successful as a halo game. There are many reasons why halo is no longer selling 9 million plus copies one being that the FPS genre has shifted, the gaming market has changed by being more competitive, the xbox one not selling as many copies and sprint may play a factor in their sale numbers. Sprint is part of the sales problem but is not the main reason for low sales.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Reach dropped to 7th place on the xbl charts a couple months after release. It took a nose dive. Being 3rd means little when HCE had no online and h3/3 are miles ahead of everything else. Reach sold well off the coattails of h3.
> > > >
> > > > Competition has hardly raised. The xb1 is outselling the 360. The xb1 does have RROD. The attach rate to xbl is higher than ever.
> > > >
> > > > You’re are factually incorrect on practically every point you made.
> > >
> > >
> > > So you made no reference to how your numbers affected sprint which was the premise of my point. Here are a couple of facts, reach’s population had 400,000 minimum playing until 2012. Thats two years after its release date. You mentioned that reach dropped to 7th place on xbl. I would argue that that doesnt mean much considering the population was still high and if you compare reach’s numbers to halo 3 numbers of june a year after their release the population was very similar. I would also add that 7th place on the xbl doesnt mean much because in 2011 COD modern warfare 3 released selling over 14 million copies. This is would explain that drop to 7th place.
> > >
> > > You said that competition has hardly changed, this couldn’t be more wrong. Any COD game sold before 2006 sold less than 3 million copies, while after this period it sold upwards of 5 million and as high as 14 million. Coincidentally 2006 is the same time COD brought in regenerative health which they got from halo. Combine those sell numbers with battlefield with it’s last two game 3, 4 which sold over 7 million in 2011 before this time they only sold around 2 million. This increase in sales of other games could mean that population for other games dont last as long. So my point is that competition has certainly changed for halo, other games have become successful.
> > >
> > > And to say i was factually incorrect about reach being the 2nd best selling and 2nd best at holding the population was WRONG.
> > >
> > > My point in the previous thread was that some people are saying that sprint is the cause of sell numbers, while i dont disagree with this (because obviously people dont like sprint which is apparent in the thread) it cannot be said that sell numbers are entirely due to sprint.
> >
> >
> > Where is your proof of these claims? I know that they are pretty much all incorrect so you’re going to have to prove it.
> >
> > Franchises that have existed just as long or longer than halo growing is not increased competition. That is just halo starting to lose vs the same competition.
>
>
> population.pdf - Google Drive
> and the game sales was from Vgcharts.
Did you even read it lol?
It clearly states h2 had the best player retention, followed by 3.
Also, reach drawn 400,000 daily players backs what I am saying. In 2009. Two years after launch h3 was still drawing nearly 1 mil daily and 200,000 CONCURRENT.
web/20090131221543/http://www.bungie.net
Why are you citing COD sales pre 06? In 09, a nearly three year old h3 was head to head against a brand new MW2, and still drawing ridiculous numbers.
The population only took a nose dive after reach launched when people played the game and hated the gameplay.
> 2535429794399531;12355:
> > 2533274866652866;12352:
> > > 2535429794399531;12342:
> > > > 2533274866652866;12336:
> > > > > 2535429794399531;12328:
> > > > > > 2533274866652866;12326:
> > > > > > > 2535429794399531;12315:
> > > > > > > > 2533274913913392;12313:
> > > > > > > > > 2535429794399531;12312:
> > > > > > > > > > 2533274913913392;12273:
> > > > > > > > > > > 2535429794399531;12240:
> > > > > > > > > > > Sprint killed Halo. Absolutely killed it. Game cannot hold a population at all ever since sprint was introduced. It just doesn’t fit and it fundamentally alters the game.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Game absolutely cannot hold a population since the elites changed design, since the DMR was introduced, since the magnum had a scope reintroduced, so are those reason’s for Halo’s fall as well?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Just saying sprint is the reason is pure speculation.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > None of those things fundementally changed gameplay and map design.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Either way. Its still speculation. There’s no hard evidence of sprint being the cause of Halo’s decline
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > There’s no evidence saying it isn’t.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If you look at the sales for halo reach they are the second highest in the franchise, and someone posted the stats for how long reachs population lasted which was the 2nd or 3rd longest in the series. Reach had sprint and i could argue that it was successful as a halo game. There are many reasons why halo is no longer selling 9 million plus copies one being that the FPS genre has shifted, the gaming market has changed by being more competitive, the xbox one not selling as many copies and sprint may play a factor in their sale numbers. Sprint is part of the sales problem but is not the main reason for low sales.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Reach dropped to 7th place on the xbl charts a couple months after release. It took a nose dive. Being 3rd means little when HCE had no online and h3/3 are miles ahead of everything else. Reach sold well off the coattails of h3.
> > > > >
> > > > > Competition has hardly raised. The xb1 is outselling the 360. The xb1 does have RROD. The attach rate to xbl is higher than ever.
> > > > >
> > > > > You’re are factually incorrect on practically every point you made.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > So you made no reference to how your numbers affected sprint which was the premise of my point. Here are a couple of facts, reach’s population had 400,000 minimum playing until 2012. Thats two years after its release date. You mentioned that reach dropped to 7th place on xbl. I would argue that that doesnt mean much considering the population was still high and if you compare reach’s numbers to halo 3 numbers of june a year after their release the population was very similar. I would also add that 7th place on the xbl doesnt mean much because in 2011 COD modern warfare 3 released selling over 14 million copies. This is would explain that drop to 7th place.
> > > >
> > > > You said that competition has hardly changed, this couldn’t be more wrong. Any COD game sold before 2006 sold less than 3 million copies, while after this period it sold upwards of 5 million and as high as 14 million. Coincidentally 2006 is the same time COD brought in regenerative health which they got from halo. Combine those sell numbers with battlefield with it’s last two game 3, 4 which sold over 7 million in 2011 before this time they only sold around 2 million. This increase in sales of other games could mean that population for other games dont last as long. So my point is that competition has certainly changed for halo, other games have become successful.
> > > >
> > > > And to say i was factually incorrect about reach being the 2nd best selling and 2nd best at holding the population was WRONG.
> > > >
> > > > My point in the previous thread was that some people are saying that sprint is the cause of sell numbers, while i dont disagree with this (because obviously people dont like sprint which is apparent in the thread) it cannot be said that sell numbers are entirely due to sprint.
> > >
> > >
> > > Where is your proof of these claims? I know that they are pretty much all incorrect so you’re going to have to prove it.
> > >
> > > Franchises that have existed just as long or longer than halo growing is not increased competition. That is just halo starting to lose vs the same competition.
> >
> >
> > population.pdf - Google Drive
> > and the game sales was from Vgcharts.
>
>
> Did you even read it lol?
>
> It clearly states h2 had the best player retention, followed by 3.
Correct and i was never arguing that point. If i can paraphrase you from before “Sprint killed Halo. Absolutely killed it. Game cannot hold a population at all ever since sprint was introduced. It just doesn’t fit and it fundamentally alters the game”. Thats what you said, and that is what im replying to. I am arguing that sprint didnt kill halo and that there is a fundemental change in consumers for the console. And H2 did have the best player retention then H3 then reach thanks for making my point.
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> > > > > > > > > > > > Sprint killed Halo. Absolutely killed it. Game cannot hold a population at all ever since sprint was introduced. It just doesn’t fit and it fundamentally alters the game.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Game absolutely cannot hold a population since the elites changed design, since the DMR was introduced, since the magnum had a scope reintroduced, so are those reason’s for Halo’s fall as well?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Just saying sprint is the reason is pure speculation.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > None of those things fundementally changed gameplay and map design.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Either way. Its still speculation. There’s no hard evidence of sprint being the cause of Halo’s decline
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > There’s no evidence saying it isn’t.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If you look at the sales for halo reach they are the second highest in the franchise, and someone posted the stats for how long reachs population lasted which was the 2nd or 3rd longest in the series. Reach had sprint and i could argue that it was successful as a halo game. There are many reasons why halo is no longer selling 9 million plus copies one being that the FPS genre has shifted, the gaming market has changed by being more competitive, the xbox one not selling as many copies and sprint may play a factor in their sale numbers. Sprint is part of the sales problem but is not the main reason for low sales.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Reach dropped to 7th place on the xbl charts a couple months after release. It took a nose dive. Being 3rd means little when HCE had no online and h3/3 are miles ahead of everything else. Reach sold well off the coattails of h3.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Competition has hardly raised. The xb1 is outselling the 360. The xb1 does have RROD. The attach rate to xbl is higher than ever.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You’re are factually incorrect on practically every point you made.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > So you made no reference to how your numbers affected sprint which was the premise of my point. Here are a couple of facts, reach’s population had 400,000 minimum playing until 2012. Thats two years after its release date. You mentioned that reach dropped to 7th place on xbl. I would argue that that doesnt mean much considering the population was still high and if you compare reach’s numbers to halo 3 numbers of june a year after their release the population was very similar. I would also add that 7th place on the xbl doesnt mean much because in 2011 COD modern warfare 3 released selling over 14 million copies. This is would explain that drop to 7th place.
> > > > >
> > > > > You said that competition has hardly changed, this couldn’t be more wrong. Any COD game sold before 2006 sold less than 3 million copies, while after this period it sold upwards of 5 million and as high as 14 million. Coincidentally 2006 is the same time COD brought in regenerative health which they got from halo. Combine those sell numbers with battlefield with it’s last two game 3, 4 which sold over 7 million in 2011 before this time they only sold around 2 million. This increase in sales of other games could mean that population for other games dont last as long. So my point is that competition has certainly changed for halo, other games have become successful.
> > > > >
> > > > > And to say i was factually incorrect about reach being the 2nd best selling and 2nd best at holding the population was WRONG.
> > > > >
> > > > > My point in the previous thread was that some people are saying that sprint is the cause of sell numbers, while i dont disagree with this (because obviously people dont like sprint which is apparent in the thread) it cannot be said that sell numbers are entirely due to sprint.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Where is your proof of these claims? I know that they are pretty much all incorrect so you’re going to have to prove it.
> > > >
> > > > Franchises that have existed just as long or longer than halo growing is not increased competition. That is just halo starting to lose vs the same competition.
> > >
> > >
> > > population.pdf - Google Drive
> > > and the game sales was from Vgcharts.
> >
> >
> > Did you even read it lol?
> >
> > It clearly states h2 had the best player retention, followed by 3.
>
>
> Correct and i was never arguing that point. If i can paraphrase you from before “Sprint killed Halo. Absolutely killed it. Game cannot hold a population at all ever since sprint was introduced. It just doesn’t fit and it fundamentally alters the game”. Thats what you said, and that is what im replying to. I am arguing that sprint didnt kill halo and that there is a fundemental change in consumers for the console. And H2 did have the best player retention then H3 then reach thanks for making my point.
Look at my link provided above. Just before reach’s launch h3 was still holding million+ daily populations, 200,000 concurrent, and 2nd place on xbl charts. According to major Nelson h3 was xbl’s most played game in 07, 08 AND 09. This game faced off against MW2, BF, Fallout, etc, etc. All the same franchises reach did. Reach launched and within a matter of MONTHS halo’s population had halfed.
You’re going to sit here and tell me that’s because of a “market shift”? The entire market shifted in a matter of months even though no new franchises were introduced?
Riiiiiiiight
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> > > didn’t even bother reading it because it is the dumbest topic out there right now. Just because it has sprint doesn’t mean its not Halo. It’s one whole mechanic, that’s it. If you don’t like sprint, don’t sprint. Problem solved.
> >
> >
> > Reach, now it is generally accepted as one of the best Halos
>
>
> Reach’s MP was utterly terrible.
Say that to the majority of the people who played Halo pre- Halo 4.
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> > > > didn’t even bother reading it because it is the dumbest topic out there right now. Just because it has sprint doesn’t mean its not Halo. It’s one whole mechanic, that’s it. If you don’t like sprint, don’t sprint. Problem solved.
> > >
> > >
> > > Reach, now it is generally accepted as one of the best Halos
> >
> >
> > Reach’s MP was utterly terrible.
>
>
> Say that to the majority of the people who played Halo pre- Halo 4.
I will…
Most will agree.
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> > > > didn’t even bother reading it because it is the dumbest topic out there right now. Just because it has sprint doesn’t mean its not Halo. It’s one whole mechanic, that’s it. If you don’t like sprint, don’t sprint. Problem solved.
> > >
> > >
> > > The formula changed with Reach, now it is generally accepted as one of the best Halos.
> >
> >
> > Most Popular Halos (in terms of consistent population)
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > 1. Halo 3
> > 2. Halo 2
> > 3. Halo: CE
> > 4. Halo: Reach (only had a lot of sales due to hype off of H3, people started returning the game shortly after and the population heavily declined)
> > 5. Halo 5
> > 6. Halo 4
>
>
> Can you give a precise definition of “consistent population”? Because this list isn’t consistent on the basis of definitions I can think of. Not to mention, unless you are basing this on sales alone—which you aren’t as far as I can tell because the ordering isn’t consistent with that—Halo CE has no place on that list because no data exists for it other than sales data.
In terms of population, I was referring more towards the other Halo titles. I added Halo: CE in that list, because the original Halo trilogy was 10x more successful than the post-trilogy.
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> > > > > > > THE ALL NEW SPACE MARINE SUPER SOLDIER. CAPABLE OF DESTROYING COVENANT FLEETS ALL BY THEMSELVES. AND ARE SMARTER FASTER AND STRONGER THEN ANY OTHER MARINE.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So ummm, whats his abilities…
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Welp…he can maybe run…or maybe hit something with a charge I’m still deciding.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So you’re going to use Halo Lore as the basis for why we should be able to sprint? I guess we should be able to grab missiles and toss them back since that was done in the books also.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I’m so tired of this over used argument… that and the old argument of “Well if you hate sprinting you should just not sprint”.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Here JoelWelsh1998Hunterkiller040SORZUSZANEWatch this
> > > > > > Sprint in Halo is an illusion and CAN NOT be Defended! (Please Read The Description) - YouTube
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Dude it’s a joke…It’s funny to think of a super soldier who can’t even run…
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > When in halo are you not running? If you’re holding the stick forward on the controller, you’re running.
> > >
> > >
> > > If you watch the character movements for Spartans in Halo 3, they usually don’t look like they’re running. Mire like a jog.
> >
> >
> > I cant not believe you took a joke into a discussion on whether they look like they’re running or not…that…is…so…pathetically…FUNNY. I mean seriously, thats kinda lame.
>
>
> Ok man… if you paid any attention you’d be able to see that I was responding to Sparatan 117. Not you.
I was talking in general…someone took a joke and made in into a thread discussion.
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> > > > > didn’t even bother reading it because it is the dumbest topic out there right now. Just because it has sprint doesn’t mean its not Halo. It’s one whole mechanic, that’s it. If you don’t like sprint, don’t sprint. Problem solved.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The formula changed with Reach, now it is generally accepted as one of the best Halos.
> > >
> > >
> > > Most Popular Halos (in terms of consistent population)
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > 1. Halo 3
> > > 2. Halo 2
> > > 3. Halo: CE
> > > 4. Halo: Reach (only had a lot of sales due to hype off of H3, people started returning the game shortly after and the population heavily declined)
> > > 5. Halo 5
> > > 6. Halo 4
> >
> >
> > Can you give a precise definition of “consistent population”? Because this list isn’t consistent on the basis of definitions I can think of. Not to mention, unless you are basing this on sales alone—which you aren’t as far as I can tell because the ordering isn’t consistent with that—Halo CE has no place on that list because no data exists for it other than sales data.
>
>
> In terms of population, I was referring more towards the other Halo titles. I added Halo: CE in that list, because the original Halo trilogy was 10x more successful than the post-trilogy.
So, if I’m interpreting correctly, you don’t have any deeper reason for the ordering of this list, it’s just your subjective opinion based on some arbitrary standards?
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> > > > > didn’t even bother reading it because it is the dumbest topic out there right now. Just because it has sprint doesn’t mean its not Halo. It’s one whole mechanic, that’s it. If you don’t like sprint, don’t sprint. Problem solved.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The formula changed with Reach, now it is generally accepted as one of the best Halos.
> > >
> > >
> > > Most Popular Halos (in terms of consistent population)
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > 1. Halo 3
> > > 2. Halo 2
> > > 3. Halo: CE
> > > 4. Halo: Reach (only had a lot of sales due to hype off of H3, people started returning the game shortly after and the population heavily declined)
> > > 5. Halo 5
> > > 6. Halo 4
> >
> >
> > Can you give a precise definition of “consistent population”? Because this list isn’t consistent on the basis of definitions I can think of. Not to mention, unless you are basing this on sales alone—which you aren’t as far as I can tell because the ordering isn’t consistent with that—Halo CE has no place on that list because no data exists for it other than sales data.
>
>
> In terms of population, I was referring more towards the other Halo titles. I added Halo: CE in that list, because the original Halo trilogy was 10x more successful than the post-trilogy.
I find Halo 5 or any without a population counter hard to believe. I agree with tsassi, Halo CE can’t go on the list. Halos 2, 3, 4, 5, Reach, and Wars can because online, but Halo 5’s “huge population biggest since Halo 3” is an obvious lie (not referring to your post with that, js)
>>>Opinion Time<<<
Personally I think Halo 2 was/is overrated because back in the days of Halo 2, it was “ugh cliffhanger” and “this game isn’t nearly as good as CE”, Halo 3 comes around, the same people say “Ugh cliffhanger, Halo 2 ended way better and there wasn’t a cliffhanger and it was the best ever, Halo 3 is just like CoD”.
It’s like that for every game.
I’ve always said Halos 3, ODST, Reach, and Wars were the best. This isn’t dissing Halos 2, 4, 5, and CE, because Halo 2 and CE were great games, especially by Halo standards, gameplay wise though? Halo CE everything was too OP (I mean, barely tapped by a Hog= death? Though the same still happens for Ghosts on occasion with teammates, but enemies can sometimes survive full speed splatters). Halo 2 everything was too underpowered (craptacular SMG) and grenade spammy.
In Halo 4, too many escaped Sprinters, I don’t like Sprint in Halo any way it isn’t put (one of my few criticisms about Reach), and Halo 5 left a bad taste in my mouth because unfinished game wasn’t unfinished, Spartan Abilities (minus Clamber) feel gimicky.
I could tell you you how I feel about the others, but I suspect you don’t really care. (Hoping I don’t get banned as it is, don’t think I’m breaking any rules but I did kinda drone on here)