The sprint discussion thread

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> Ok this is getting quite annoying. First of all, there is a huge difference between things like sprint affecting gameplay and the BS unpredictable reqs and such in warzone. Even in WZ where there are TONS more different things that could happen, the better team STILL generally wins. So im sure having sprint is not going to make a 4v4 with standard map weapons “unpredictable” Because I predict the enemy all day. I predict the enemy correctly the majority of the time even if I still end up dying. Acting like its “too much to deal with” is ridiculous. I can basically look at my watch and call out to you where people are going to be based on a situation, and that comes with experience. So does using sprint efficiently. Sprint adds to the skill gap for H5. Not the other games. This “sprint is killing halo” BS is all in your head. I use to think the same thing, once you start paying more attention to how the game is being played by others, you will see the truth that sprint is not the problem in H5.

Ignoring the implausibilities you spout out in your paragraph, go on. How does sprint add to the skill gap? I can list multiple ways in which it doesn’t, objectively. It allows for players to get out of situations they’d have normally died in, because they can use Halo 5’s segmented map design (A byproduct of sprint) to evade enemy lines of sight and get out unscathed when they should’ve been punished. This rewards the lesser player who was being outplayed and punishes the one who was winning, which shouldn’t happen. This leads to the game’s pace being slowed down, because no combat’s happening, because it can’t when your opponent’s running full torque away from you. This in turn lessens the impact of map control, because map control means nothing when your opponent doesn’t advance on you. It’s a domino effect.

And with that, a lack of the ability of prediction given the game’s complexity isn’t ridiculous. You can’t predict if your enemy’s sprinting, where they’re sprinting to, given there’re many lanes to go with, or if they’re using their base movement speed to walk with their weapon up. And that’s just sprint, not accounting for any other abilities present. To say you can “predict the enemy correctly a majority of the time” is more ridiculous. But I’m not going to argue your statements, because they mean nothing without any evidence or weight behind them. I can say “I can outshoot Snipedown pretty consistently”, but that doesn’t give my argument more weight. It’s a fallacy.

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> Ground pound is NOT a playstyle. A playstyle is a SET of strengths/preferences in a game which dictates how their gameplay comes together. I am a support player. My skills are cross map shooting, predicting/blocking spawns, thrust shooting and using parts of the map in my strafe. My buddy Jamie is a CQC guy. He uses the sword like no one else I have ever seen. He sprints, he is good with melee and short distance weapons, and he uses ground pound quite a bit. GP is PART of his playstyle, not his playstyle. I disregarded your entire paragraph because you obviously ignored my previous on that told you the exact thing I just had to repeat. It is a skill, not a playstyle. It is PART of someone`s playstyle if they choose to use it. A sprinting playstyle is so common I dont understand how you are not grasping this. In COD and even in Reach and such there were dedicated sprinting classes for those who choose a sprinting playstyle. Im going to leave it at that.

Exactly. It’s a preference in a game. Using ground pound instead of attacking from above by other means is a preference, and that is your playstyle because that is the manner in which you play. Your playstyle is to go ground pound, over the other three options (Grenade, gun, melee). And no, you’re not a “support” player. Halo has no defined classes because the player’s given the tools to do everything. EVERYONE can cross map shoot, block spawns, and thrust shoot. It’s not something exclusive to you. If anything, spawn blocking is much more team based than it is individually, and you’ll see teams focus on that a lot in higher level play, because you need to spread your entire team out properly for spawns to be affected in your favor. That isn’t an individual effort. Much like CQC isn’t exclusive to your friend, nor is sword use. And you realize you’re conceding on my point, but just using a technicality. It goes without saying that ground pound is a part of your overall playstyle, but still a playstyle. Ground pound obviously doesn’t encompass everything you do, but is still specific to going into the certain situation in which it’s present in.

With that, sprint again, isn’t a playstyle. It’s basic movement. Basic movement isn’t a playstyle, it’s how the game works and operates in general. It isn’t something you adopt, it’s something you’re forced to do, due to map design among other things. The reason the “Sprinting playstyle” is so common is because it’s forced on you and other players. Just because you don’t sprint as often doesn’t mean it isn’t forced on you, nor does it mean it doesn’t punish you. CoD doesn’t have a “sprinting” class. It’s a basic movement ability provided to everyone. Reach is arguably the only game which had a “sprinting playstyle” because it was either choose it or lose it, much like any other abilities present, meaning you and your team potentially had roles, assuming you communicated. You didn’t have it consistently. That isn’t the case with Halo 5, though.

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> And ok, I wont use the scary numbers anymore. I will just say that anyone who has played this game consistently will agree that Halo is about smart plays and experience more than shooting by a longshot.

You realize that smart plays and experience mean nothing when you can’t shoot straight to save your life, right?

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> > 2533274838217981;12010:
> > Ok this is getting quite annoying. First of all, there is a huge difference between things like sprint affecting gameplay and the BS unpredictable reqs and such in warzone. Even in WZ where there are TONS more different things that could happen, the better team STILL generally wins. So im sure having sprint is not going to make a 4v4 with standard map weapons “unpredictable” Because I predict the enemy all day. I predict the enemy correctly the majority of the time even if I still end up dying. Acting like its “too much to deal with” is ridiculous. I can basically look at my watch and call out to you where people are going to be based on a situation, and that comes with experience. So does using sprint efficiently. Sprint adds to the skill gap for H5. Not the other games. This “sprint is killing halo” BS is all in your head. I use to think the same thing, once you start paying more attention to how the game is being played by others, you will see the truth that sprint is not the problem in H5.
>
>
> Ignoring the implausibilities you spout out in your paragraph, go on. How does sprint add to the skill gap? I can list multiple ways in which it doesn’t, objectively. It allows for players to get out of situations they’d have normally died in, because they can use Halo 5’s segmented map design (A byproduct of sprint) to evade enemy lines of sight and get out unscathed when they should’ve been punished. This rewards the lesser player who was being outplayed and punishes the one who was winning, which shouldn’t happen. This leads to the game’s pace being slowed down, because no combat’s happening, because it can’t when your opponent’s running full torque away from you. This in turn lessens the impact of map control, because map control means nothing when your opponent doesn’t advance on you. It’s a domino effect.
>
> And with that, a lack of the ability of prediction given the game’s complexity isn’t ridiculous. You can’t predict if your enemy’s sprinting, where they’re sprinting to, given there’re many lanes to go with, or if they’re using their base movement speed to walk with their weapon up. And that’s just sprint, not accounting for any other abilities present. To say you can “predict the enemy correctly a majority of the time” is more ridiculous. But I’m not going to argue your statements, because they mean nothing without any evidence or weight behind them. I can say “I can outshoot Snipedown pretty consistently”, but that doesn’t give my argument more weight. It’s a fallacy.
>
>
> > 2533274838217981;12010:
> > Ground pound is NOT a playstyle. A playstyle is a SET of strengths/preferences in a game which dictates how their gameplay comes together. I am a support player. My skills are cross map shooting, predicting/blocking spawns, thrust shooting and using parts of the map in my strafe. My buddy Jamie is a CQC guy. He uses the sword like no one else I have ever seen. He sprints, he is good with melee and short distance weapons, and he uses ground pound quite a bit. GP is PART of his playstyle, not his playstyle. I disregarded your entire paragraph because you obviously ignored my previous on that told you the exact thing I just had to repeat. It is a skill, not a playstyle. It is PART of someone`s playstyle if they choose to use it. A sprinting playstyle is so common I dont understand how you are not grasping this. In COD and even in Reach and such there were dedicated sprinting classes for those who choose a sprinting playstyle. Im going to leave it at that.
>
>
> Exactly. It’s a preference in a game. Using ground pound instead of attacking from above by other means is a preference, and that is your playstyle because that is the manner in which you play. Your playstyle is to go ground pound, over the other three options (Grenade, gun, melee). And no, you’re not a “support” player. Halo has no defined classes because the player’s given the tools to do everything. EVERYONE can cross map shoot, block spawns, and thrust shoot. It’s not something exclusive to you. If anything, spawn blocking is much more team based than it is individually, and you’ll see teams focus on that a lot in higher level play, because you need to spread your entire team out properly for spawns to be affected in your favor. That isn’t an individual effort. Much like CQC isn’t exclusive to your friend, nor is sword use. And you realize you’re conceding on my point, but just using a technicality. It goes without saying that ground pound is a part of your overall playstyle, but still a playstyle. Ground pound obviously doesn’t encompass everything you do, but is still specific to going into the certain situation in which it’s present in.
>
> With that, sprint again, isn’t a playstyle. It’s basic movement. Basic movement isn’t a playstyle, it’s how the game works and operates in general. It isn’t something you adopt, it’s something you’re forced to do, due to map design among other things. The reason the “Sprinting playstyle” is so common is because it’s forced on you and other players. Just because you don’t sprint as often doesn’t mean it isn’t forced on you, nor does it mean it doesn’t punish you. CoD doesn’t have a “sprinting” class. It’s a basic movement ability provided to everyone. Reach is arguably the only game which had a “sprinting playstyle” because it was either choose it or lose it, much like any other abilities present, meaning you and your team potentially had roles, assuming you communicated. You didn’t have it consistently. That isn’t the case with Halo 5, though.
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> >
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> You realize that smart plays and experience mean nothing when you can’t shoot straight to save your life, right?

I actually just posted an example of how sprint adds to the skill gap, even at the pro level but just ignore facts and reasoning I guess. Also, do you not see evasiveness as a useful skill? The “a player would have otherwise died” argument doesnt work here. If you allow me to get behind cover (people cant sprint backwards you know) then you wouldnt have killed me anyways. Which means you had bad positioning in the first place, or were unable to make the callout or predict their path to clean up the kill. Also COD never had a sprinting class? Are you 100% sure about that? Because there was this class called “lightweight” which allowed unlimited sprint. Same with halo reach, it was called “marathon” if I remember correctly. This isnt even counting the games who have implemented sprint, and players use it it as the main aspect to their aggressive gameplay.

Also, claiming that you cannot predict the enemy is proof that you dont know very much about this game apparently. All of the high end players predict spawns and where the enemy team will be or go based on the flow of the game. It also very much is part of a playstyle because not everyone is in the positions to block spawns or ground pound consistently. That depends on their playstyle.

Now you have reverted back to my initial point. The maps in H5 is what has been creating the problems you are describing, not sprint. Are the maps perfect? No. Will they get better? I hope so. Do they still provide fun and interesting gameplay? For the most part, yes.

Towards your last comment, lets say you are a perfect shot, and I hit 5/6 consistently. If I use sprint to force your spawns, get a better position, or back down until I get the advantage, then I am the better player. Shooting straight definitely helps, but being smart wins games. Period.

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> > > > > > > > > You must not fully understand what I mean by “sprinters”. Everyone sprints in halo 5 because of map movement capability, but some people use sprint as their playstyle. The maps are the main problem because instead of making maps that allow sprinting, they have made them to give it an advantage. That is the problem. Also, any kind of added mechanic will increase the skill gap, removing it does not make the game any harder whatsoever. People who are going to challenge too much or push too far always will, whether sprint is in the game or not.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > No
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Any ability that:
> > > > > > > > -Benefits a lower skilled player more than a higher skilled player
> > > > > > > > -Allows lower skilled players to perform actions in a similar manner to higher skilled players
> > > > > > > > -Removes viable options or nullifies actions i.e decreases depth
> > > > > > > > Decrease the skill gap by bringing the players closer to each other.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > For instance:
> > > > > > > > An Auto Lock on system for aiming.
> > > > > > > > A lower skilled player who can’t maintain a good aim benefits from this far more than a higher skilled player who can maintain a good aim
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Clamber
> > > > > > > > Allows lower skilled players who can’t routinely manage jumps, a second chance of succeeding the jump, more than a higher skilled player who routinely is successful at jumps.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Yes, which is why I said weapons like the hydra were terrible ideas. Comparing an auto-lock on weapon to the ability to sprint as an advantage is stupid. Its apples and oranges my friend. Sprint also creates the opportunity for a lot of new jumps that take a large amount of skill to do that newcomers cannot execute. It gets the same results like I have said. The skill gap most definitely increases with 2 movement speeds and a players ability to realize when to use them or not. Kind of like how people need to learn when to challenge or not. THAT is a comparable instance.
> >
> >
> > Anecdote with nothing about sprint which hadn’t been doable with BMS only.
> >
> > What does adaption have to do with skill gap?
> > How can one dislike and adapt to something that according to you decrease the skill gap, but dislike and because of that opinion, not adapt to something that according to you increase the skill gap?
> > You are aware of what adaption means right?
> >
> > Just in case, here’s one appropriate definition:
> > to adjust oneself to different conditions, environment, etc.
> >
> > Zero things to do with an individual’s opinion regarding the new conditions, environment and so forth.
> > Zero things to do with how the new conditions, environment etc affect anything.
> >
> > So now mechanics can decrease the skill gap, despite you saying that “Also, any kind of added mechanic will increase the skill gap.”. What?
>
>
> Stop nitpicking. You know what I mean. Any kind of REASONABLE mechanic added to halo (like the ones we have) will increase the skill gap because it increases the number of possibilities during engagements.
>
> And yes. Adaptation means to adjust, not love. It is possible to learn something without liking it. I am good at math but I -Yoinking!- hate it. Does that mean I think no one should learn math? No. That is the argument you are making. Stop taking up for your friends and actually use some logic. Adaptation is directly related to skill gap. If I never learned how to use sprint effectively, or use the plasma pistol, I would be behind the power curve and closer to the bottom of the skill gap.
>
> Even at the higher levels of play, sprint creates a skill gap. E6 lost to CLG quite a few times last season in the pro league. Both teams agreed that E6 was sprinting way too much, and they paid dearly for those play calls.

No I don’t know, I can’t know what you mean when you throw out a short sentence statement / claim. Of course I didn’t think you meant it to the literal word which filters out quite a few imaginable and unimaginable mechanics. However even that leaves in quite a few mechanics to take into consideration when thinking of what you possibly can mean by that statement. Even with your now quite late addition of “reasonable” and “like the ones we have”, there’s literally nothing telling me what you find “reasonable” out of the pool of mechanics left outside of Halo 5. I mean, is Prone a reasonable mechanic? Wall jumping? Double jump? Wall hugging? Blind firing? Dual Wielding? Corner lean? Melee block? Melee grappling? “Like the ones we have now” is a very limiting description of what is a reasonable mechanic addition is.

Are you saying an increase in the number of rules to remember and learn, increase in complexity, leads to an increased skill gap?

Despite coming to that conclusion, you still see no issue in telling people who dislike sprint that they’ve failed to adapt.

It’d be interesting seeing how you came to the conclusion that I’m saying you tell others not to use something.

Either way.

Here’s what I’m getting at, simplified using your own examples.

You dislike math, but you’re good at it.

Someone dislikes sprint, you don’t know the extent of their skills.

You’ve “adapted to math”, for the sake of the example.

According to you, the other who dislike sprint hasn’t adapted to it, based on their opinion.

Yet as you say, adapting “isn’t love”.

Yeah, my fault, the correct phrasing of that question would be: What does adaption have to do with one skill realtive to one’s opinion about it.

That’s E6 making the wrong decisions relative to CLG. The rest you can look up in how I see skill and skill gap in the previous post.

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> > > > > > > You must not fully understand what I mean by “sprinters”. Everyone sprints in halo 5 because of map movement capability, but some people use sprint as their playstyle. The maps are the main problem because instead of making maps that allow sprinting, they have made them to give it an advantage. That is the problem. Also, any kind of added mechanic will increase the skill gap, removing it does not make the game any harder whatsoever. People who are going to challenge too much or push too far always will, whether sprint is in the game or not.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > No
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Any ability that:
> > > > > > -Benefits a lower skilled player more than a higher skilled player
> > > > > > -Allows lower skilled players to perform actions in a similar manner to higher skilled players
> > > > > > -Removes viable options or nullifies actions i.e decreases depth
> > > > > > Decrease the skill gap by bringing the players closer to each other.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > For instance:
> > > > > > An Auto Lock on system for aiming.
> > > > > > A lower skilled player who can’t maintain a good aim benefits from this far more than a higher skilled player who can maintain a good aim
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Clamber
> > > > > > Allows lower skilled players who can’t routinely manage jumps, a second chance of succeeding the jump, more than a higher skilled player who routinely is successful at jumps.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes, which is why I said weapons like the hydra were terrible ideas. Comparing an auto-lock on weapon to the ability to sprint as an advantage is stupid. Its apples and oranges my friend. Sprint also creates the opportunity for a lot of new jumps that take a large amount of skill to do that newcomers cannot execute. It gets the same results like I have said. The skill gap most definitely increases with 2 movement speeds and a players ability to realize when to use them or not. Kind of like how people need to learn when to challenge or not. THAT is a comparable instance.
> > >
> > >
> > > Given the context of my paragraph beforehand, I thought you were making that comparison. In that case i`m sorry.

Now you are correct that a hydra closes a skill gap and I agree. But the reason I say they cant be compared is because the hydra is not what I would consider to be a game mechanic. It is more of a weapon ability. I consider anything that everyone starts out with the ability to do as a game mechanic. The basic building blocks of the game.

Also I do hate spartan charge because it rewards people for over sprinting. Is it annoying? YES. Does it need to be removed? I dont think so. I think if they nerfed the knockback and stun quite a bit then it would still be useful, canon, and easily reversed. I also hate auto-lock weapons, even the plasma pistol. But I still use them because if I dont, the other team will. I have adapted and I know how to use them, but that doesnt mean I like them whatsoever. Its one of the parts of halo I have never liked.

Now, yes quite a bit of skill goes in to deciding when and when not to sprint. Decision making has always been the biggest skill determination in halo. I have known people who can perfect kill anything that moves, but couldnt get a 50 in H2, H3, or even past diamond 4 in H5. I am not the best shot out there, and even on my bad days where I cant aim for crap I still usually do pretty well. The skill gap is definitely created by ones ability to adapt and make smart plays. > > > > > > And again, I am not talking about the Hydra and its projectile lock on. I am talking about a mechanic allowing players to lock on to targets using any gun, in layman terms, auto-aim. Not aim assists, not bullet magnetism, not seeking projectiles. An implemented auto-aim mechanic that automatically aims at the locked target for the player. An aim-bot base mechanic given to every single player upon spawn usable with every weapon, melee and grenades, usable for a short period of time. > > Section 8: Predjudice > > Iirc, GTA 4. > > > > So you've adapted to things despite disliking them but find no issue in telling others who dislike sprint they've failed to adapt? > > > > This is how I see skill and skill gap: > > > > Skill gap, is what I'd like to explain as the difference between what an experienced user who knows the program can do with it, vs the expert user, who has reached the "usability ceiling", or is close to it. The usability ceiling being the point where you can get no more "effect" out of the program despite your skill. > > > > I know eveeything about MS paint, but I can't draw a photorealistic car in it. Others can. > > Put in a wireframe model of a car that I can apply to the paper and the color, and I'm jumping far ahead in my ability in drawing a photorealistic car, while the expert user only saves time. > > > > Reduction in skill gap is moving users closer to each other in terms of what's possible to do with the given assets in an efficient manner. > > > > If we then want to use sprint: > > Generally easier to escape, it is easier for an escapee to disengange an encounter due to the assailant not being able to keep up and deal damage at the same time, as opposed to non-sprint. > > > > The escapee's ability to disengage is increased towards an "expert's" ability to disengage. > > > > Making a decision however is relative skill between players. While the game does present you with a series of choices, it's not the abilities / mechanics themselves that in terms of "skill to use efficiently" benefit from those choices, it is if you make a mistake or not, choosing the right option compared to your opponent., based on what you know. > > > > Sprint, or any ability, isn't more skillful to use, doesn't add to the skill gap, becsuse they present the options "use or don't use". > > > > Perhaps the easiest way to explain how I see it is: > > A mechanic present you with options, but that doesn't add to the skill gap of the game itself, only to the relative skill of the players present. > > How an ability affects a game in terms of usability is different than the skill used in making the choices based on the ability. > > > > /How I see it, explained in a somewhat to me satisfactory way. > > > > If we're going to share stories I feel the choice of using / not using sprint is second nature, not something I contemplate every turn, so to me the decision to use or not use doesn't add skill. > > > At higher levels when 1v1s are less common, sprinting will inevitably be a persons downfall when used incorrectly. I used sprint to overextend to save a flag cap that was going in anyways? Guess what, I blocked the wrong spawn by doing so and now the enemy team is spawning middle and ready for a double cap. I decided to sprint to a position instead of looking around the map and seeing who of my teammates is in a battle first? My teammate then gets possibly out gunned while the other team moves toawrds me with greater numbers. It most certainly is something that people need to learn to use, and that is why it increases the skill gap.

“So you’ve adapted to things despite disliking them but find no issue in telling others who dislike sprint they’ve failed to adapt?”
Yes exactly. Because the things I dislike actually remove the skill gap more than not. There is no problem with H5`s sprint. Reach and H4? Sure, but H5 sprint actually increases the skill gap, which is why I am defending it.

It’s also important to not confuse learning curve with skill gap.

Extra abilities. Extra things you have to learn to play the game add to the learning curve. Skill gap is the difference between how well an average player plays, and how well a top end player plays.

Spartan abilities add a much greater value to Halo’s learning curve than they do it’s skill gap. It’s actually off putting to average players.

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> > > > > > > > You must not fully understand what I mean by “sprinters”. Everyone sprints in halo 5 because of map movement capability, but some people use sprint as their playstyle. The maps are the main problem because instead of making maps that allow sprinting, they have made them to give it an advantage. That is the problem. Also, any kind of added mechanic will increase the skill gap, removing it does not make the game any harder whatsoever. People who are going to challenge too much or push too far always will, whether sprint is in the game or not.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > No
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Any ability that:
> > > > > > > -Benefits a lower skilled player more than a higher skilled player
> > > > > > > -Allows lower skilled players to perform actions in a similar manner to higher skilled players
> > > > > > > -Removes viable options or nullifies actions i.e decreases depth
> > > > > > > Decrease the skill gap by bringing the players closer to each other.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > For instance:
> > > > > > > An Auto Lock on system for aiming.
> > > > > > > A lower skilled player who can’t maintain a good aim benefits from this far more than a higher skilled player who can maintain a good aim
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Clamber
> > > > > > > Allows lower skilled players who can’t routinely manage jumps, a second chance of succeeding the jump, more than a higher skilled player who routinely is successful at jumps.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yes, which is why I said weapons like the hydra were terrible ideas. Comparing an auto-lock on weapon to the ability to sprint as an advantage is stupid. Its apples and oranges my friend. Sprint also creates the opportunity for a lot of new jumps that take a large amount of skill to do that newcomers cannot execute. It gets the same results like I have said. The skill gap most definitely increases with 2 movement speeds and a players ability to realize when to use them or not. Kind of like how people need to learn when to challenge or not. THAT is a comparable instance.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Given the context of my paragraph beforehand, I thought you were making that comparison. In that case i`m sorry.

Now you are correct that a hydra closes a skill gap and I agree. But the reason I say they cant be compared is because the hydra is not what I would consider to be a game mechanic. It is more of a weapon ability. I consider anything that everyone starts out with the ability to do as a game mechanic. The basic building blocks of the game.

Also I do hate spartan charge because it rewards people for over sprinting. Is it annoying? YES. Does it need to be removed? I dont think so. I think if they nerfed the knockback and stun quite a bit then it would still be useful, canon, and easily reversed. I also hate auto-lock weapons, even the plasma pistol. But I still use them because if I dont, the other team will. I have adapted and I know how to use them, but that doesnt mean I like them whatsoever. Its one of the parts of halo I have never liked.

Now, yes quite a bit of skill goes in to deciding when and when not to sprint. Decision making has always been the biggest skill determination in halo. I have known people who can perfect kill anything that moves, but couldnt get a 50 in H2, H3, or even past diamond 4 in H5. I am not the best shot out there, and even on my bad days where I cant aim for crap I still usually do pretty well. The skill gap is definitely created by one`s ability to adapt and make smart plays.
>
>
> It’s also important to not confuse learning curve with skill gap.
>
> Extra abilities. Extra things you have to learn to play the game add to the learning curve. Skill gap is the difference between how well an average player plays, and how well a top end player plays.
>
> Spartan abilities add a much greater value to Halo’s learning curve than they do it’s skill gap. It’s actually off putting to average players.

I agree there is a difference for newer players, but they are also essentially the same in the long run. A learning curve can extend throuhout someone`s entire career. Just like how the H3 BR was an intense learning curve, which created a huge skill gap. Even pros in H5 are losing due to overuse or under use of spartan abilities.

I personally dont care what happens with sprint in H6 because I can play both ways just fine and dont see sprint as the problem people keep talking about. But it obviously adds to the skill gap, which I am always a fan of.

> 2533274838217981;12048:
> > 2547348539238747;12047:
> > > 2533274838217981;12037:
> > > > 2533274795123910;12035:
> > > > > 2533274838217981;12033:
> > > > > > 2533274795123910;12030:
> > > > > > > 2533274838217981;12025:
> > > > > > > > 2533274795123910;12023:
> > > > > > > > > 2533274838217981;12020:
> > > > > > > > > > 2533274886529017;12019:
> > > > > > > > > > > 2533274838217981;12010:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > You must not fully understand what I mean by “sprinters”. Everyone sprints in halo 5 because of map movement capability, but some people use sprint as their playstyle. The maps are the main problem because instead of making maps that allow sprinting, they have made them to give it an advantage. That is the problem. Also, any kind of added mechanic will increase the skill gap, removing it does not make the game any harder whatsoever. People who are going to challenge too much or push too far always will, whether sprint is in the game or not.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > No
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Any ability that:
> > > > > > > > -Benefits a lower skilled player more than a higher skilled player
> > > > > > > > -Allows lower skilled players to perform actions in a similar manner to higher skilled players
> > > > > > > > -Removes viable options or nullifies actions i.e decreases depth
> > > > > > > > Decrease the skill gap by bringing the players closer to each other.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > For instance:
> > > > > > > > An Auto Lock on system for aiming.
> > > > > > > > A lower skilled player who can’t maintain a good aim benefits from this far more than a higher skilled player who can maintain a good aim
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Clamber
> > > > > > > > Allows lower skilled players who can’t routinely manage jumps, a second chance of succeeding the jump, more than a higher skilled player who routinely is successful at jumps.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Yes, which is why I said weapons like the hydra were terrible ideas. Comparing an auto-lock on weapon to the ability to sprint as an advantage is stupid. Its apples and oranges my friend. Sprint also creates the opportunity for a lot of new jumps that take a large amount of skill to do that newcomers cannot execute. It gets the same results like I have said. The skill gap most definitely increases with 2 movement speeds and a players ability to realize when to use them or not. Kind of like how people need to learn when to challenge or not. THAT is a comparable instance.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Given the context of my paragraph beforehand, I thought you were making that comparison. In that case i`m sorry.

Now you are correct that a hydra closes a skill gap and I agree. But the reason I say they cant be compared is because the hydra is not what I would consider to be a game mechanic. It is more of a weapon ability. I consider anything that everyone starts out with the ability to do as a game mechanic. The basic building blocks of the game.

Also I do hate spartan charge because it rewards people for over sprinting. Is it annoying? YES. Does it need to be removed? I dont think so. I think if they nerfed the knockback and stun quite a bit then it would still be useful, canon, and easily reversed. I also hate auto-lock weapons, even the plasma pistol. But I still use them because if I dont, the other team will. I have adapted and I know how to use them, but that doesnt mean I like them whatsoever. Its one of the parts of halo I have never liked.

Now, yes quite a bit of skill goes in to deciding when and when not to sprint. Decision making has always been the biggest skill determination in halo. I have known people who can perfect kill anything that moves, but couldnt get a 50 in H2, H3, or even past diamond 4 in H5. I am not the best shot out there, and even on my bad days where I cant aim for crap I still usually do pretty well. The skill gap is definitely created by ones ability to adapt and make smart plays. > > > > > > It's also important to not confuse learning curve with skill gap. > > > > Extra abilities. Extra things you have to learn to play the game add to the learning curve. Skill gap is the difference between how well an average player plays, and how well a top end player plays. > > > > Spartan abilities add a much greater value to Halo's learning curve than they do it's skill gap. It's actually off putting to average players. > > > I agree there is a difference for newer players, but they are also essentially the same in the long run. A learning curve can extend throuhout someones entire career. Just like how the H3 BR was an intense learning curve, which created a huge skill gap. Even pros in H5 are losing due to overuse or under use of spartan abilities.

Easy to learn, hard to master.

Learning how to use a software is not the same as mastering it.

You’re considered to have learned a software/product when you are familiar and can use all aspects of it.
Mastering is developing the skills you have with the tool set at hand.

Learning to use a BR doesn’t take long, mastering it does.

> 2533274795123910;12049:
> > 2533274838217981;12048:
> > > 2547348539238747;12047:
> > > > 2533274838217981;12037:
> > > > > 2533274795123910;12035:
> > > > > > 2533274838217981;12033:
> > > > > > > 2533274795123910;12030:
> > > > > > > > 2533274838217981;12025:
> > > > > > > > > 2533274795123910;12023:
> > > > > > > > > > 2533274838217981;12020:
> > > > > > > > > > > 2533274886529017;12019:
> > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274838217981;12010:
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > You must not fully understand what I mean by “sprinters”. Everyone sprints in halo 5 because of map movement capability, but some people use sprint as their playstyle. The maps are the main problem because instead of making maps that allow sprinting, they have made them to give it an advantage. That is the problem. Also, any kind of added mechanic will increase the skill gap, removing it does not make the game any harder whatsoever. People who are going to challenge too much or push too far always will, whether sprint is in the game or not.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > No
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Any ability that:
> > > > > > > > > -Benefits a lower skilled player more than a higher skilled player
> > > > > > > > > -Allows lower skilled players to perform actions in a similar manner to higher skilled players
> > > > > > > > > -Removes viable options or nullifies actions i.e decreases depth
> > > > > > > > > Decrease the skill gap by bringing the players closer to each other.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > For instance:
> > > > > > > > > An Auto Lock on system for aiming.
> > > > > > > > > A lower skilled player who can’t maintain a good aim benefits from this far more than a higher skilled player who can maintain a good aim
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Clamber
> > > > > > > > > Allows lower skilled players who can’t routinely manage jumps, a second chance of succeeding the jump, more than a higher skilled player who routinely is successful at jumps.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Yes, which is why I said weapons like the hydra were terrible ideas. Comparing an auto-lock on weapon to the ability to sprint as an advantage is stupid. Its apples and oranges my friend. Sprint also creates the opportunity for a lot of new jumps that take a large amount of skill to do that newcomers cannot execute. It gets the same results like I have said. The skill gap most definitely increases with 2 movement speeds and a players ability to realize when to use them or not. Kind of like how people need to learn when to challenge or not. THAT is a comparable instance.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Given the context of my paragraph beforehand, I thought you were making that comparison. In that case i`m sorry.

Now you are correct that a hydra closes a skill gap and I agree. But the reason I say they cant be compared is because the hydra is not what I would consider to be a game mechanic. It is more of a weapon ability. I consider anything that everyone starts out with the ability to do as a game mechanic. The basic building blocks of the game.

Also I do hate spartan charge because it rewards people for over sprinting. Is it annoying? YES. Does it need to be removed? I dont think so. I think if they nerfed the knockback and stun quite a bit then it would still be useful, canon, and easily reversed. I also hate auto-lock weapons, even the plasma pistol. But I still use them because if I dont, the other team will. I have adapted and I know how to use them, but that doesnt mean I like them whatsoever. Its one of the parts of halo I have never liked.

Now, yes quite a bit of skill goes in to deciding when and when not to sprint. Decision making has always been the biggest skill determination in halo. I have known people who can perfect kill anything that moves, but couldnt get a 50 in H2, H3, or even past diamond 4 in H5. I am not the best shot out there, and even on my bad days where I cant aim for crap I still usually do pretty well. The skill gap is definitely created by ones ability to adapt and make smart plays. > > > > > > > > > It's also important to not confuse learning curve with skill gap. > > > > > > Extra abilities. Extra things you have to learn to play the game add to the learning curve. Skill gap is the difference between how well an average player plays, and how well a top end player plays. > > > > > > Spartan abilities add a much greater value to Halo's learning curve than they do it's skill gap. It's actually off putting to average players. > > > > > > I agree there is a difference for newer players, but they are also essentially the same in the long run. A learning curve can extend throuhout someones entire career. Just like how the H3 BR was an intense learning curve, which created a huge skill gap. Even pros in H5 are losing due to overuse or under use of spartan abilities.

Easy to learn, hard to master.

Learning how to use a software is not the same as mastering it.

You’re considered to have learned a software/product when you are familiar and can use all aspects of it.
Mastering is developing the skills you have with the tool set at hand.

Learning to use a BR doesn’t take long, mastering it does.

Exactly. Learning to use the spartan abilities doesn`t take long, mastering them and knowing when to use them does.

> 2533274838217981;12050:
> > 2533274795123910;12049:
> > > 2533274838217981;12048:
> > > > 2547348539238747;12047:
> > > > > 2533274838217981;12037:
> > > > > > 2533274795123910;12035:
> > > > > > > 2533274838217981;12033:
> > > > > > > > 2533274795123910;12030:
> > > > > > > > > 2533274838217981;12025:
> > > > > > > > > > 2533274795123910;12023:
> > > > > > > > > > > 2533274838217981;12020:
> > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274886529017;12019:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274838217981;12010:
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > You must not fully understand what I mean by “sprinters”. Everyone sprints in halo 5 because of map movement capability, but some people use sprint as their playstyle. The maps are the main problem because instead of making maps that allow sprinting, they have made them to give it an advantage. That is the problem. Also, any kind of added mechanic will increase the skill gap, removing it does not make the game any harder whatsoever. People who are going to challenge too much or push too far always will, whether sprint is in the game or not.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > No
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Any ability that:
> > > > > > > > > > -Benefits a lower skilled player more than a higher skilled player
> > > > > > > > > > -Allows lower skilled players to perform actions in a similar manner to higher skilled players
> > > > > > > > > > -Removes viable options or nullifies actions i.e decreases depth
> > > > > > > > > > Decrease the skill gap by bringing the players closer to each other.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > For instance:
> > > > > > > > > > An Auto Lock on system for aiming.
> > > > > > > > > > A lower skilled player who can’t maintain a good aim benefits from this far more than a higher skilled player who can maintain a good aim
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Clamber
> > > > > > > > > > Allows lower skilled players who can’t routinely manage jumps, a second chance of succeeding the jump, more than a higher skilled player who routinely is successful at jumps.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Yes, which is why I said weapons like the hydra were terrible ideas. Comparing an auto-lock on weapon to the ability to sprint as an advantage is stupid. Its apples and oranges my friend. Sprint also creates the opportunity for a lot of new jumps that take a large amount of skill to do that newcomers cannot execute. It gets the same results like I have said. The skill gap most definitely increases with 2 movement speeds and a players ability to realize when to use them or not. Kind of like how people need to learn when to challenge or not. THAT is a comparable instance.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Given the context of my paragraph beforehand, I thought you were making that comparison. In that case i`m sorry.

Now you are correct that a hydra closes a skill gap and I agree. But the reason I say they cant be compared is because the hydra is not what I would consider to be a game mechanic. It is more of a weapon ability. I consider anything that everyone starts out with the ability to do as a game mechanic. The basic building blocks of the game.

Also I do hate spartan charge because it rewards people for over sprinting. Is it annoying? YES. Does it need to be removed? I dont think so. I think if they nerfed the knockback and stun quite a bit then it would still be useful, canon, and easily reversed. I also hate auto-lock weapons, even the plasma pistol. But I still use them because if I dont, the other team will. I have adapted and I know how to use them, but that doesnt mean I like them whatsoever. Its one of the parts of halo I have never liked.

Now, yes quite a bit of skill goes in to deciding when and when not to sprint. Decision making has always been the biggest skill determination in halo. I have known people who can perfect kill anything that moves, but couldnt get a 50 in H2, H3, or even past diamond 4 in H5. I am not the best shot out there, and even on my bad days where I cant aim for crap I still usually do pretty well. The skill gap is definitely created by ones ability to adapt and make smart plays. > > > > > > > > > > > > It's also important to not confuse learning curve with skill gap. > > > > > > > > Extra abilities. Extra things you have to learn to play the game add to the learning curve. Skill gap is the difference between how well an average player plays, and how well a top end player plays. > > > > > > > > Spartan abilities add a much greater value to Halo's learning curve than they do it's skill gap. It's actually off putting to average players. > > > > > > > > > I agree there is a difference for newer players, but they are also essentially the same in the long run. A learning curve can extend throuhout someones entire career. Just like how the H3 BR was an intense learning curve, which created a huge skill gap. Even pros in H5 are losing due to overuse or under use of spartan abilities.

Easy to learn, hard to master.

Learning how to use a software is not the same as mastering it.

You’re considered to have learned a software/product when you are familiar and can use all aspects of it.
Mastering is developing the skills you have with the tool set at hand.

Learning to use a BR doesn’t take long, mastering it does.

Exactly. Learning to use the spartan abilities doesn`t take long, mastering them and knowing when to use them does.

Take it as you wish.
My point was that no one spent 1 year learning the BR, at the most, a minute. They spent years mastering the BR.

The learning curve is not to be considered at all when discussing “usability”, what you get out of a program when you’re working with it, it is merely a curve showing how long and how much a player / user has learned of the program. It does not contribute to anything of the actual program once users have passed it, or the skill gap between an average user and an expert user.

> 2533274838217981;12050:
> > 2533274795123910;12049:
> > > 2533274838217981;12048:
> > > > 2547348539238747;12047:
> > > > > 2533274838217981;12037:
> > > > > > 2533274795123910;12035:
> > > > > > > 2533274838217981;12033:
> > > > > > > > 2533274795123910;12030:
> > > > > > > > > 2533274838217981;12025:
> > > > > > > > > > 2533274795123910;12023:
> > > > > > > > > > > 2533274838217981;12020:
> > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274886529017;12019:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274838217981;12010:
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > You must not fully understand what I mean by “sprinters”. Everyone sprints in halo 5 because of map movement capability, but some people use sprint as their playstyle. The maps are the main problem because instead of making maps that allow sprinting, they have made them to give it an advantage. That is the problem. Also, any kind of added mechanic will increase the skill gap, removing it does not make the game any harder whatsoever. People who are going to challenge too much or push too far always will, whether sprint is in the game or not.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > No
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Any ability that:
> > > > > > > > > > -Benefits a lower skilled player more than a higher skilled player
> > > > > > > > > > -Allows lower skilled players to perform actions in a similar manner to higher skilled players
> > > > > > > > > > -Removes viable options or nullifies actions i.e decreases depth
> > > > > > > > > > Decrease the skill gap by bringing the players closer to each other.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > For instance:
> > > > > > > > > > An Auto Lock on system for aiming.
> > > > > > > > > > A lower skilled player who can’t maintain a good aim benefits from this far more than a higher skilled player who can maintain a good aim
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Clamber
> > > > > > > > > > Allows lower skilled players who can’t routinely manage jumps, a second chance of succeeding the jump, more than a higher skilled player who routinely is successful at jumps.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Yes, which is why I said weapons like the hydra were terrible ideas. Comparing an auto-lock on weapon to the ability to sprint as an advantage is stupid. Its apples and oranges my friend. Sprint also creates the opportunity for a lot of new jumps that take a large amount of skill to do that newcomers cannot execute. It gets the same results like I have said. The skill gap most definitely increases with 2 movement speeds and a players ability to realize when to use them or not. Kind of like how people need to learn when to challenge or not. THAT is a comparable instance.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Given the context of my paragraph beforehand, I thought you were making that comparison. In that case i`m sorry.

Now you are correct that a hydra closes a skill gap and I agree. But the reason I say they cant be compared is because the hydra is not what I would consider to be a game mechanic. It is more of a weapon ability. I consider anything that everyone starts out with the ability to do as a game mechanic. The basic building blocks of the game.

Also I do hate spartan charge because it rewards people for over sprinting. Is it annoying? YES. Does it need to be removed? I dont think so. I think if they nerfed the knockback and stun quite a bit then it would still be useful, canon, and easily reversed. I also hate auto-lock weapons, even the plasma pistol. But I still use them because if I dont, the other team will. I have adapted and I know how to use them, but that doesnt mean I like them whatsoever. Its one of the parts of halo I have never liked.

Now, yes quite a bit of skill goes in to deciding when and when not to sprint. Decision making has always been the biggest skill determination in halo. I have known people who can perfect kill anything that moves, but couldnt get a 50 in H2, H3, or even past diamond 4 in H5. I am not the best shot out there, and even on my bad days where I cant aim for crap I still usually do pretty well. The skill gap is definitely created by ones ability to adapt and make smart plays. > > > > > > > > > > > > It's also important to not confuse learning curve with skill gap. > > > > > > > > Extra abilities. Extra things you have to learn to play the game add to the learning curve. Skill gap is the difference between how well an average player plays, and how well a top end player plays. > > > > > > > > Spartan abilities add a much greater value to Halo's learning curve than they do it's skill gap. It's actually off putting to average players. > > > > > > > > > I agree there is a difference for newer players, but they are also essentially the same in the long run. A learning curve can extend throuhout someones entire career. Just like how the H3 BR was an intense learning curve, which created a huge skill gap. Even pros in H5 are losing due to overuse or under use of spartan abilities.

Easy to learn, hard to master.

Learning how to use a software is not the same as mastering it.

You’re considered to have learned a software/product when you are familiar and can use all aspects of it.
Mastering is developing the skills you have with the tool set at hand.

Learning to use a BR doesn’t take long, mastering it does.

Exactly. Learning to use the spartan abilities doesn`t take long, mastering them and knowing when to use them does.

Yeah, but like I said it is off putting to your average player. Which leads to less people putting in the effort to master, or start to master, these skills. They join the game to find a very unforgiving environment for players trying to learn the game. So they dont stay.

Halo used to be an easy, social Arena shooter. That could be played at a competitive level. Now it’s a super competitive game.

It’s one of the reasons Halo 5 was down to 20th most played (last time I looked).

Sprint is just fine.

<mark>This post has been edited by a moderator. Please do not post spam.</mark>
*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

Hey guys I’m just wondering if any of you can check out this YouTube video I made on the current state of Halo. It would mean a lot. Thanks.
<mark>[link removed by moderator]</mark>

So who has a problem with sprint in warzone? Does anyone like sprint in warzone and not in arena? I can see the problems with sprinting away from an enemy, which in some cases is unfair. I think arena would benefit from sprint if Spartan charge was cut, reducing the imapcts of sprinting. I would love to suggest a classic mode, however Favyn voices his concerns which seem rather realistic. However tweak the weapon strength in classic mode and the mode might work. Overall for big maps I think sprint works, for smaller maps not so much.

> 2533274838217981;12010:
> I actually just posted an example of how sprint adds to the skill gap, even at the pro level but just ignore facts and reasoning I guess. Also, do you not see evasiveness as a useful skill? The “a player would have otherwise died” argument doesnt work here. If you allow me to get behind cover (people cant sprint backwards you know) then you wouldnt have killed me anyways. Which means you had bad positioning in the first place, or were unable to make the callout or predict their path to clean up the kill. Also COD never had a sprinting class? Are you 100% sure about that? Because there was this class called “lightweight” which allowed unlimited sprint. Same with halo reach, it was called “marathon” if I remember correctly. This isnt even counting the games who have implemented sprint, and players use it it as the main aspect to their aggressive gameplay.
>
> Also, claiming that you cannot predict the enemy is proof that you dont know very much about this game apparently. All of the high end players predict spawns and where the enemy team will be or go based on the flow of the game. It also very much is part of a playstyle because not everyone is in the positions to block spawns or ground pound consistently. That depends on their playstyle.
>
> Now you have reverted back to my initial point. The maps in H5 is what has been creating the problems you are describing, not sprint. Are the maps perfect? No. Will they get better? I hope so. Do they still provide fun and interesting gameplay? For the most part, yes.
>
> Towards your last comment, lets say you are a perfect shot, and I hit 5/6 consistently. If I use sprint to force your spawns, get a better position, or back down until I get the advantage, then I am the better player. Shooting straight definitely helps, but being smart wins games. Period.

To be fair the examples you provided are not reliant on sprint to exist. To pick one, let’s go with trying to deny a flag cap, overextending and compromising spawn/map control. The decision here was to try to stop the flag cap. It turned out to be a mistake, clearly. But the same decision and outcome would still come up in sprintless Halo. The difference is you wouldn’t have two move speeds.

Sprint is essentially a binary decision. If you do not need to shoot, with the gun down time included, you sprint. If this condition isn’t met you do not. The circumstances surrounding this choice may differ. But the decision in regards to sprint does not, whether you’re fleeing, pushing an objective (as in the above example), whatever. The point being the, “Sprint provides so many options and decisions!”, argument is hogwash.

Yes you can predict spawns and where the enemy team will go. Sprint does throw unpredictability into doing so though. Knowing the where loses value if you do not know the when. With two move speeds it’s far more difficult to establish the when. Even if I know when and where a player spawns, as well as where they’re going, there is guesswork and luck involved in establishing when they will get there.

To simplify that last paragraph with an analogy… Say a car is going a distance of 100 miles from point a to b. Now suppose the car can arbitrarily travel at 30 mph or 60 mph on the way. When does the car get there? Did it go 30 the entire way? 60? Some unknown combination of 30 and 60?

I don’t think sprint is ruining Halo. I don’t like it though. I don’t like clamber or thrust either, but that is for another thread. There is no question this stuff impacts gameplay in multiple ways. But again, whether those impacts are good or bad is based on opinion.

BTW, this is unrelated to the quoted text but you certainly can get in the cubbies in each base on Truth with a simple crouch jump (small elevated edge on floor near them). It’s just cumbersome to do it.

> 2533274972430429;12055:
> So who has a problem with sprint in warzone? Does anyone like sprint in warzone and not in arena? I can see the problems with sprinting away from an enemy, which in some cases is unfair. I think arena would benefit from sprint if Spartan charge was cut, reducing the imapcts of sprinting. I would love to suggest a classic mode, however Favyn voices his concerns which seem rather realistic. However tweak the weapon strength in classic mode and the mode might work. Overall for big maps I think sprint works, for smaller maps not so much.

Favyn is pretty much on the money in that video
a classic playlist wouldn’t work for the current sandbox because the maps and weapon tuning are built around sprint
The problem with the idea of having sprint for one game mode but not the other is Devs are then forced to essentially make two games
one built around sprint and one that isn’t
so that presents a problem for 343 since we have yet to seem th launch a full compete working game

[deleted]

> 2533274838217981;12043:
> > 2533274795123910;12042:
> > > 2533274838217981;12037:
> > > > 2533274795123910;12035:
> > > > > 2533274838217981;12033:
> > > > > > 2533274795123910;12030:
> > > > > > > 2533274838217981;12025:
> > > > > > > > 2533274795123910;12023:
> > > > > > > > > 2533274838217981;12020:
> > > > > > > > > > 2533274886529017;12019:
> > > > > > > > > > > 2533274838217981;12010:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > You must not fully understand what I mean by “sprinters”. Everyone sprints in halo 5 because of map movement capability, but some people use sprint as their playstyle. The maps are the main problem because instead of making maps that allow sprinting, they have made them to give it an advantage. That is the problem. Also, any kind of added mechanic will increase the skill gap, removing it does not make the game any harder whatsoever. People who are going to challenge too much or push too far always will, whether sprint is in the game or not.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > No
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Any ability that:
> > > > > > > > -Benefits a lower skilled player more than a higher skilled player
> > > > > > > > -Allows lower skilled players to perform actions in a similar manner to higher skilled players
> > > > > > > > -Removes viable options or nullifies actions i.e decreases depth
> > > > > > > > Decrease the skill gap by bringing the players closer to each other.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > For instance:
> > > > > > > > An Auto Lock on system for aiming.
> > > > > > > > A lower skilled player who can’t maintain a good aim benefits from this far more than a higher skilled player who can maintain a good aim
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Clamber
> > > > > > > > Allows lower skilled players who can’t routinely manage jumps, a second chance of succeeding the jump, more than a higher skilled player who routinely is successful at jumps.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Yes, which is why I said weapons like the hydra were terrible ideas. Comparing an auto-lock on weapon to the ability to sprint as an advantage is stupid. Its apples and oranges my friend. Sprint also creates the opportunity for a lot of new jumps that take a large amount of skill to do that newcomers cannot execute. It gets the same results like I have said. The skill gap most definitely increases with 2 movement speeds and a players ability to realize when to use them or not. Kind of like how people need to learn when to challenge or not. THAT is a comparable instance.
> > >
> > >
> > > At higher levels when 1v1s are less common, sprinting will inevitably be a person`s downfall when used incorrectly. I used sprint to overextend to save a flag cap that was going in anyways? Guess what, I blocked the wrong spawn by doing so and now the enemy team is spawning middle and ready for a double cap. I decided to sprint to a position instead of looking around the map and seeing who of my teammates is in a battle first? My teammate then gets possibly out gunned while the other team moves toawrds me with greater numbers. It most certainly is something that people need to learn to use, and that is why it increases the skill gap.

“So you’ve adapted to things despite disliking them but find no issue in telling others who dislike sprint they’ve failed to adapt?”
Yes exactly. Because the things I dislike actually remove the skill gap more than not. There is no problem with H5`s sprint. Reach and H4? Sure, but H5 sprint actually increases the skill gap, which is why I am defending it.
> >
> >
> > Anecdote with nothing about sprint which hadn’t been doable with BMS only.
> >
> > What does adaption have to do with skill gap?
> > How can one dislike and adapt to something that according to you decrease the skill gap, but dislike and because of that opinion, not adapt to something that according to you increase the skill gap?
> > You are aware of what adaption means right?
> >
> > Just in case, here’s one appropriate definition:
> > to adjust oneself to different conditions, environment, etc.
> >
> > Zero things to do with an individual’s opinion regarding the new conditions, environment and so forth.
> > Zero things to do with how the new conditions, environment etc affect anything.
> >
> > So now mechanics can decrease the skill gap, despite you saying that “Also, any kind of added mechanic will increase the skill gap.”. What?
>
>
> Stop nitpicking. You know what I mean. Any kind of REASONABLE mechanic added to halo (like the ones we have) will increase the skill gap because it increases the number of possibilities during engagements.
>
> And yes. Adaptation means to adjust, not love. It is possible to learn something without liking it. I am good at math but I -Yoinking!- hate it. Does that mean I think no one should learn math? No. That is the argument you are making. Stop taking up for your friends and actually use some logic. Adaptation is directly related to skill gap. If I never learned how to use sprint effectively, or use the plasma pistol, I would be behind the power curve and closer to the bottom of the skill gap.
>
> Even at the higher levels of play, sprint creates a skill gap. E6 lost to CLG quite a few times last season in the pro league. Both teams agreed that E6 was sprinting way too much, and they paid dearly for those play calls.

And yet the Halo game with highest skill gap didn’t have sprint.

And games like quake have a higher skill gap than any halo game also has no sprint.

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> > > > > > 2625759425619671;10951:
> > > > > > > 2533274866906624;10950:
> > > > > > > > 2625759425619671;10942:
> > > > > > > > > 2535450703392903;10941:
> > > > > > > > > Debating about the polls is silly. No matter the result of them, they don’t matter. This is a creative medium.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Success in creative mediums is often attained by subverting expectations and giving people something they didn’t expect to love but end up loving.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > “Anti sprinters” are convinced replacing sprint with high BMS will do this and no data exists that can disprove this theory.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Equally along those lines no data exists that can prove such a theory… This being the creative medium that it is, all we can do is discuss the issue with fellow fans that are not all like-minded regarding sprint. Personally, I think I’ve heard and seen many points supporting why one high BMS will definitely not replace sprint and would make Halo worse… Anti sprinters would tell you different, but I do agree insofar that no one should be here with the intention to “disprove,” “dismantle,” and/or “destroy,” opinions from our fellow fans about this.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I got three reasons for you.
> > > > > > > 1. Halo: CE
> > > > > > > 2. Halo 2
> > > > > > > 3. Halo 3
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I’ve got three reasons for you.
> > > > > > 1) Reach
> > > > > > 2) Halo 4
> > > > > > 3) Halo 5
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Reach, 4 & 5 are the three most controversial Halo titles.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > That doesn’t really mean much, just because it’s controversial, doesn’t mean it should change. Most of the abilities and mechanics that were put into Reach were meant to be put into the series earlier, some even in Halo 2. Bungie didn’t put those mechanics in because they didn’t have time and didn’t have the best set up to do it then, but if they had, then Halo 2 and 3 would have been super controversial.
> > >
> > >
> > > Incorrect, they played with sprint early on and removed it due to pacing issues. Set up? Sprint has been in fps gaming since the 90’s.
> >
> >
> > It’s not incorrect, that’s what I was referring to, they were trying to use it in Halo 2 but they couldn’t balance it right before they had to finish the game.
>
>
> Pretty sure there’s no evidence of that whatsoever.

If you look for the evidence, you’ll be able to find it.

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> > > > > > 2533274866906624;10953:
> > > > > > > 2625759425619671;10951:
> > > > > > > > 2533274866906624;10950:
> > > > > > > > > 2625759425619671;10942:
> > > > > > > > > > 2535450703392903;10941:
> > > > > > > > > > Debating about the polls is silly. No matter the result of them, they don’t matter. This is a creative medium.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Success in creative mediums is often attained by subverting expectations and giving people something they didn’t expect to love but end up loving.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > “Anti sprinters” are convinced replacing sprint with high BMS will do this and no data exists that can disprove this theory.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Equally along those lines no data exists that can prove such a theory… This being the creative medium that it is, all we can do is discuss the issue with fellow fans that are not all like-minded regarding sprint. Personally, I think I’ve heard and seen many points supporting why one high BMS will definitely not replace sprint and would make Halo worse… Anti sprinters would tell you different, but I do agree insofar that no one should be here with the intention to “disprove,” “dismantle,” and/or “destroy,” opinions from our fellow fans about this.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I got three reasons for you.
> > > > > > > > 1. Halo: CE
> > > > > > > > 2. Halo 2
> > > > > > > > 3. Halo 3
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I’ve got three reasons for you.
> > > > > > > 1) Reach
> > > > > > > 2) Halo 4
> > > > > > > 3) Halo 5
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Reach, 4 & 5 are the three most controversial Halo titles.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > That doesn’t really mean much, just because it’s controversial, doesn’t mean it should change. Most of the abilities and mechanics that were put into Reach were meant to be put into the series earlier, some even in Halo 2. Bungie didn’t put those mechanics in because they didn’t have time and didn’t have the best set up to do it then, but if they had, then Halo 2 and 3 would have been super controversial.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Incorrect, they played with sprint early on and removed it due to pacing issues. Set up? Sprint has been in fps gaming since the 90’s.
> > >
> > >
> > > It’s not incorrect, that’s what I was referring to, they were trying to use it in Halo 2 but they couldn’t balance it right before they had to finish the game.
> >
> >
> > Again, it wasnt about time or them being rushed, this was early in development.
>
>
> People seem to forget that movement options aren’t thrown in at the last second.

Yeah, they developed it for a while, but it just didn’t turn out like they wanted it to.

Pure personal opinion and preference here, i always saw Halo as the game where kills were a lot harder earned, if you got the kill or spree or riot its was -Yoinking!- well earned and it was so so satisfying, its still there to an extent epecially in comparison to to the way the new CODs are where they are basically gifting you kills, its like christmas has come early.

In H5 i feel like thats not so much the case anymore flanking and getting shot in the back is more apparent, definately more a case of who sees who first in gunfights dictating the outcome, splinter grenades are just cheap easy kills, spartan charge, crouching with autos and just the autos in general. More cheap easy kills on offer and that doesn’t feel like Halo to me.

> 2533274921982810;12062:
> Pure personal opinion and preference here, i always saw Halo as the game where kills were a lot harder earned, if you got the kill or spree or riot its was -Yoinking!- well earned and it was so so satisfying, its still there to an extent epecially in comparison to to the way the new CODs are where they are basically gifting you kills, its like christmas has come early.
>
> In H5 i feel like thats not so much the case anymore flanking and getting shot in the back is more apparent, definately more a case of who sees who first in gunfights dictating the outcome, splinter grenades are just cheap easy kills, spartan charge, crouching with autos and just the autos in general. More cheap easy kills on offer and that doesn’t feel like Halo to me.

I love all of the Halo games for different reasons but what you’re saying is kind of true, Halo 5 feels different and seems like it’s almost impossible to stay alive. It would be nice if they shifted a little bit back to the Halo Reach feel where it was a lot easier to keep yourself safe and alive if you knew what you were doing.