The sprint discussion thread

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> Bro the game isn’t halo anymore, do know how outraged the community of csgo would be if they let the servers go to -Yoink- and brought out a new game with sprint and ads on the ak47? You can make any argument IT DOESN’T MATTER! 95 percent of us have quit beginning with reach, we don’t like sprint in our game and will continue to be an embarrassment to MS till they realise and make 343 fix it. It’s not about if it’s fair Coz everyone can do it or if itshe balanced. Most of us played 2/3 online because we liked that it felt the way it did we didn’t want it to change, we would have played the same game with slightly better graphics forever. At some point it will go back because 30k players is a -Yoinking!- joke I feel sorry for 343 spending all that money on a flop. You are part of different community, both games have halo on the box, but halo 5 is halo in name only!!

I have no idea what you’re on about quoting me for.

Who is “us” and where do you pull the 95% from?
Who is “we” and are you talking for everyone of them?
What is the 30k supposed to be and from where did you pull it?

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> 1) In the end, it’s all up to 343i on what the ultimate decision is. If they decide to keep sprint, there is nothing Anti-sprinters can do to stop it. If 343i removes sprint, then there is nothing Pro-Sprinters can do to stop it.
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> 2) We discussed just about everything in this one thread and now it’s just resulted in repetition and re-explanations and that’s probably why this thread will never die till we hear the news we want to hear sooner than later.
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> 3) Hopefully 343i looks at this thread carefully (and others) and makes a final decision on what they want and how they want to build Halo 6.
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> 4) I just want to feel the nostalgia of classic Halo again

  1. With some slight tweaking to eliminate any bias in your statement, I 100% agree with you there… I couldn’t agree more, actually and I’ve also stated that at multiple points in this thread so it’s fantastic to have a point like this that pro sprinters and anti sprinters can agree upon!! (Things are looking up if you ask me! :+1:)

  2. I agree with you insofar that a lot of the same arguments get brought up over and over… But to be honest- I’ve seen a lot of these same types of arguments get brought up in this community long before this thread came along. You also have to remember that not everyone can read this entire novel chronicling the great “sprint debate,” in Halo. So a lot of people will want to show up and put their 2 cents in which is perfectly acceptable IMO; and unfortunately sometimes it’ll be regurgitated material in a thread this massive. I dunno what could even be done for that; however for me- that’s the reason why I sometimes don’t engage on certain repetitious points like that- it’s exactly for the reason that you just stated. I’m always open to continue the discussion via PM’s but I want to try to do my best to contribute things of value to this discussion.

  3. That would be fantastic if they did. Fan feedback should be a consideration when 343i is developing a new Halo title and what better place to look for that than Halo’s official forums?? :smiley:

  4. I can definitely respect that.

I mean it’s obvious that some fans are more passionate about the “sprint discussion,” than others (some have expressed that they didn’t know it was even an issue at all and others have stated that they don’t even care either way); but another thing we should all be able to agree upon is that we are all equally passionate about Halo. Otherwise we wouldn’t be here in the first place debating this issue about one mechanic within the game.

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> > > > > How can a spartan not sprint??
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> > > > How can a spartan not run and gun?
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> > > I do want to say that I fully respect UEG ShadowAngel’s dissenting opinions however I have some insight on why I feel sprint/no shoot is better for Halo:
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> > > 1) It’s perfectly logical to want to keep Halo the same as it is now and sprint has fit well into Halo over the past 3 AAA installments to the franchise.
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> > > Sprint has continued to be evolved between each new Halo title in order to enhance competitive gameplay - such as the careful balancing that 343i has done to remove the ability for shields to recharge when sprinting and to nix the “sprint/shoot,” idea. For example- they have been able to effectively address the “Cat and Mouse,” games from Halo Reach’s sprint by making sure that shields don’t recharge when sprinting. The result of learning from previous mistakes like that has been a much better overall product regarding gameplay starting from Reach to H4 to what we have now in H5.
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> > > Why go back on all that hard work now?
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> > > Why not continue to improve upon sprint?
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> > > The decision to keep sprint is a much better option versus trying to change everything about Halo’s core movement mechanics now and trying to send the developers all the way back to the drawing boards to start over with that by trying to create, tweak, and balance entirely new movement mechanics in the absence of sprint (Along with all the residual tertiary effects of removing it- such as the impact that would have on other armor abilities, modifications, weapons, etc that all now branch off of sprint in Halo).
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> > > With sprint the developers are free to instead focus on much more important issues like developing new game types, enemies, weapons, maps, etc etc etc.
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> > > 2) Sprint/no shoot is more realistic than sprint/shoot (in that sprint/no shoot virtually models modern day military training/Basic Rifle Markmenship on how to properly fire weapons),
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> > > 3) Sprint/no shoot looks more realistic versus tweaking BMS to a sprint pace while holding the rifle at the ready because that appears unnatural as far as movement is concerned, &
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> > > 4) I think that sprint/no shoot is better for gameplay because it also provides an additional layer of skill to the game to learn to master it…
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> > > What I mean is that you as the player must be able to distinguish between situations when you should
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> > > a) avoid using sprint to prevent yourself from getting “burned,” for sprinting too often thereby leaving yourself vulnerable where you might have been better off walking like when using a sniper rifle in mid-range combat where you may be particularly vulnerable and/or
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> > > b) be capable of knowing when and where to push on the offensive with the sprint pace instead of the walking pace.
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> > > Granted this is all coming from a pro sprint perspective, so take from it what you will! Anyway thanks for considering this!!
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> > Blah blah blah
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> “Blah blah blah,” huh?
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> Look I respect your opinion on the matter just like anyone else’s but the fact that you’re really going to try and write off my entire post as “Blah blah blah,” (while humorous to an extent) indicates that you just don’t care what I had to say; nor did you read it even. The points still stand to defend why sprint/no shoot is good for Halo, although you clearly disagree with them.
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> The original question was, “How can a spartan not run and gun?” And I answered that open-ended question with how that could be; conceding that it was coming from a pro sprinter such as myself and that anti sprinters may not fully agree with me even. But that doesn’t negate the fact that there are a ton of reasons why it could be perfectly logical to assume that Spartans would want to enter a dead sprint with their rifles catered in the exact same manner that the real militaries do it today.
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> There are multiple other reasons why the rifle is catered (like you see in Halo 5) beyond the obvious fact that accuracy is difficult to attain the faster/longer the human body is moving (Spartans are still human by the way, no matter how “super,” people think they are. Just as Lasky reminded the Master Chief at the of Halo 4, “You say that like soldiers and humanity are two different things. Soldiers aren’t machines. We’re just people.”).
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> The idea of potentially implementing sprint/shoot for Halo (which is what anti sprinters are calling for when they suggest tweaking one BMS to try and drop sprint) goes beyond the implication by anti sprinters as to whether or not Spartans could do it, the question starts with whether or not they even should.
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> Also remember that the basic and proper fundamentals of rifle marksmanship literally cannot be applied when traveling at a deadsprint, such as with the sprint speed in Halo 5.
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> You also don’t want to lose your rifle either- because running around with loose objects (like a weapon) can leave room for it to snag on objects and obstacles in the way; especially over larger distances… Because if you lose your weapon in combat then you’re basically dead anyway (Cue: Full Metal Jacket movie scene “The Rifleman’s Creed”).
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> And sure you could pick up and use a dropped weapon (as long as it doesn’t get stuck, broken, or dropped off of a cliff) but that weapon will be dirty (And dirt can and will create obstructions within the barrel making the weapon malfunction; potentially breaking both the weapon and maybe even the person trying to shoot it)… Dropping a weapon the wrong way can damage the weapon; rendering it completely inoperable (Try seeing a Spartan attempt to explain that one to a commanding officer in Halo).
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> Not to mention you should really be concerned with watching where the heck you’re walking when running around with a loaded weapon (especially in combat); versus trying to be gung-ho and wreck less about it… Weapon safety and muzzle awareness is critical; especially when sprinting with a weapon. A lot of people have neglected this and often times get themselves hurt. Here’s a clip you can see for yourself as to why muzzle awareness is important (Caveat: no one gets hurt in this YouTube clip- it’s a brief clip demonstrating some of what can go wrong when people do dumb stuff with weapons because they didn’t respect weapon safety and muzzle awareness like they were supposed to).
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> But aside from the silliness you see in that video, people can (and unfortunately do) actually get hurt like that… And if soldiers are sprinting around all the time with their weapon at the ready they could easily trip and blast their buddy next to them and/or blast themselves doing something that stupid (I’m confident video evidence on the internet exists but I’m not interested in searching for or watching such things happen). Soldiers (such as the Spartans) also need pay attention to multiple things at once in a combat situation, but you literally can’t do any of that if you’re trotting around everywhere with the weapon up at the ready at all times.
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> Running in a “spray and pray,” blasting technique is quite simply ill-advised; especially for a soldier in a combat situation. Do you think Bungie came up with the sprint animation on accident?? They (along with many FPS video game companies before and after Halo

Halo lore states that spartans can sprint at like 80kph and that they can accurately fire weapons up to speeds of like 30kph. The sprint speed in games is lower than 30 kph. Meaning based upon the established lore of halo (which is the universe in question here, not our own) spartans shold be able to fire their weapons if they are moving at the sprint speed dipicted in the game.

At the end of the day halo is trending downwards in all metrics. Sales, population, etc. Nobody knows exactly why. All we do know is what we have now is not working.

It’s time for change. “Modernisation”, “advanced movement”. These are two directions 343 has taken halo. Neither helped the situation.

Try a new direction.

I still think this thread is a waste of computer space and shouldn’t be endorsed as much as it is but whatever. In the end of it all. SPRINT will stay. If you want a game without Sprint, play Halo CE. Games must evolve. Sprint being added is one such feature. After all, you are playing as a SPARTAN aka super-soldier. Why wouldn’t a super soldier be able to run. Captain America can run and he is a super-soldier. Look it up if you don’t read comics or watch movies. Or better yet, jut make your own game type where there is no sprint. Now that i say that and think bout what i just wrote, i must say that there should be a game type where abilities are turned off. Like an all or nothing game type where there are no abilities or weapons. Just melee and assassinations. Hmm that could work i guess but whatever. I’m not a developer or even a monitor. I wouldn’t mind being a monitor but have no idea to become one. there you go. A nice constructive comment for the Sprint discussion thread. Might not get another from me on this thread but then again you might.

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> > > Why not continue to improve upon sprint?
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> > > > > > > Those arguments being larger maps, having to put a gun down, and cat and mouse gameplay. The problem with these three arguments is that they have existed in games before sprint, and therefore, to 343i or anyone with any actual say in the franchise, these problems are not related to sprint.
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> > > > > > > As many Waypointers love to say, the burden of proof falls to those making the claim. In the 343 era of Halo, sprint is in the game, meaning those who want it removed should be offering compelling reasons for its removal. So far, that hasn’t happened.
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> > > > > > Weapons down were “a problem before sprint”? What?
> > > > > > Of course you can have issues like that without sprint, they are issues on their own due to problems in other aspects of the game design. However, and a big however, that doesn’t mean sprint isn’t more fuel on the fire.
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> > > > > > You do realise that the existense of sprint in Halo does not exempt anyone from your “burden of proof” phrase? Its existence is not proof of any claim other than “Sprint is in Halo”.
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> > > If anti-sprinters took less of a condescending tone with anyone who doesn’t approve of their views, they may find that they get more pull in how the franchise goes. That and maybe anti-sprinters need to get together and figure out what it is exactly that they want. This thread started as a “Sprint needs to be removed from Halo”. Over the last 600 pages, there have been multiple different views on where sprint should go. “Keep it in BTB Warzone, keep it in campaign, remove Spartan Charge and buff the radar and keep it, etc”.
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> You are part of different community, both games have halo on the box, but halo 5 is halo in name only!!

I could not disagree with that statement anymore than I do. I am sorry you feel that way- I do sympathize with any fan of the Halo franchise that feels they can’t enjoy playing the series anymore because of a game mechanic… However just because you’re a dissatisfied fan does not mean you don’t belong to the same Halo community as the rest of us. We would be smarter to do our part to be more reasonable in our disputes so that tensions don’t reach a point where someone like you feels like they need to succeed from the community like that…

But either way, you’re either a fan of Halo or you’re not. Trying to divide the community fosters a potentially toxic environment on the threads which isn’t good for anybody- not good for new fans who want to become part of Halo community, not for older fans of the franchise, not for the professional gamers, not even for the 343i employees- not for anybody. Bottom line is that there really is no reason that we can’t try to put aside our own desires for how we want: sprint- one gameplay mechanic to work in Halo 6 in order to see beyond the bigger picture that we are united together as fans of Halo.

Alright here`s the deal. I have been playing halo since CE came out when I was 10 years old. I loved how the game always brought something new to the table with each release. Now when Reach and Halo 4 came out I virtually stopped playing the game regularly because sprint was a game breaking mechanic, along with a few other controversial subjects, but those will be discussed another time.

Now, it`s time to bring the butthurt to the anti-sprinters. I was an anti-sprinter for a long time, and hated how it created a community of cat and mouse players. When Halo 5 released I saw the video explaining how sprint had been nerfed and I decided to pick up the game. It was truly a beautiful way to balance the sprint mechanic. I have been a huge fan of halo 5 ever since its release. It does have its fair share of problems, but sprint is not one of them cough spartan charge cough. Now whenever I talk to some of the older players like me, they just bash sprint as if it is worse than slaughtering puppies. Did sprint kill the competitive scene for reach and halo 4? Absolutely. But acting like it is hindering halo gameplay after being nerfed is just plain ignorant. Sprint brings in a whole new category of players. Even if they come from COD, they are still halo players whenever they play halo, and our community needs more noobs honestly. Newer players have no one fair to play against, or with, and just get constantly beaten down by some of you -Yoinks!- on smurf accounts.

Halo 5 already has a small skill gap at the higher levels because of heavy trading with hitscan, faster TTK and some ridiculous weapons. Halo 5`s sprint is a mechanic that helps spread the skill gap. You guys want to claim how competitive and awesome you are at halo as some sort of argument? Okay fine, then you shouldnt have a problem figuring out when to sprint and when not to. Only noobs get caught sprinting at the wrong time. If you are having problems with this then you need to take a hard look at yourself first.

If you want to make arguments to help make gameplay better in a competitive sense, then discuss radar, map selection/design, and ridiculous weapons like the hydra/smg/PR. Blaming sprint for your failure to adapt is a cop out because you choose to live in the glory years of H2 and H3 when it wasnt part of the game. I use to think the same thing until Halo 5. It has been nerfed. There are no more excuses.

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> The rest are focused on, you guessed it, getting better at the game.

Or have left the game completely because they’re tired of 343’s antics after Halo 5 simply was modeled from Halo 4… which everyone bought because they wanted to see what 343 would do with the Halo franchise, but ended up hating due to the ways that it changed halo fundamentally as a game.

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> Have you never heard of vocal minority?

I have… generally they’re the loud ones that don’t represent the majority. People speak with their wallets. The 4.23 M sales of Halo 5 in contrast to the 9.76 M sales of Halo 4 speak pretty loudly.

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> As for Jaime Griesemer, I do recall he worked on Halo Reach as well. Your twitter conversation with him suggested that he was unsure how to make sprint work with Halo. He also said they had it on CE, and that it didn’t work on the Xbox with the smaller maps. If 343 found a way to implement it, like they did in Halo 5 ( versus how it was in Halo 4 or Halo Reach), maybe they accomplished something he couldn’t. He certainly tried his best with Reach. And he was lead designer for Destiny, was he not? I still can’t figure why Bungie would give up something like Halo.

He wasn’t the lead designer. He did work on Reach and he did work on 3. However, many of the people at Bungie started testing sprint with Reach and saw how it fundamentally changed the way the game played (as mentioned in one of their developer diraries and is featured in “O Brave New World”). As a result, they put it in but were very sparing about it… such as only being allowed to sprint for a few seconds and then there is a cooldown to it. The idea is to sprint, not long distance endure run (Halo 5 Sprint). Even then, the pro community hated all these features. The stark difference between Halo Reach and Halo 5 is that sprint was a sectoined off playlist. If you didn’t want to have sprint in the game, you weren’t forced to use it. There were playlists that excluded it. Bungie wanted their freedom from Microsoft. Microsoft was basically holding them by the throat saying “you will produce this and it’s going to follow these guidelines” and so on and so forth. So the only means of getting away from the oversight from Microsoft, was to leave halo behind. Marty O’Donnell said once that he tried to release the Halo CE OST as a stand alone music soundtrack. When he suggested it to Microsoft, they said that they would consider it after a series of meetings and talks and litigation. He was quite astounded at how long it would take considering that they owned the IP. However, that’s how Microsoft does things. Everyone gets their say in, but then the majority rules in favor of a decision… whether that be to have a Halo game that has to be T rated… or produce a Halo game by X date whether or not you can make it.

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> I don’t even care that much. I liked Halo 3. I like Halo 5. If Halo 6 were to come out without sprint, I’d buy the most expensive version, Day 1. Sprint doesn’t make or break the game for me. But too often, the faults of the series are placed squarely onto the shoulders of sprint, and I think that’s unfair. Couple that with the way that pro-sprinters are treated within the vocal community, and it gets harder to harder to try and enjoy a video game series when it’s own community is trying to tear it down. Would a pre-2010 era Halo work in today’s gaming market? I don’t know.

I agree with you. I think we have really good examples currently of non-sprint games working perfectly fine. Unreal Tournament 4 is coming out and lacks sprint. Doom got released without sprint. Overwatch is one of the most popular games on the market right now and lacks sprint.
Honestly I think a pre-2010 era Halo would do fine given if you added some default movement speed so that your max forward movement speed was slightly more than that of Reach (which feels almost perfect at this point). You’d fix so many fundamental problems with the game (like getting rid of the fact that people can snipe you from across the map with an Assault Rifle), you’d lose the Bloom to weapons so that the focus of game play was focused once again on sheer skill and map placement, rather than luck and timing… You wouldn’t have people trying to spartan charge you or ground pound you … but you’d probably still get T-bagged.

Honestly I think at this point we just need to go back to the roots of gameplay. Let 343 put out a single map as a play test to the community that features a map not built with sprint or charge or …whatever that ground pound move is… just keep it very generic halo with thrusters (because believe it or not, that ends up being really helpful when you jump short). If the community responds to it well, you have your answer.

Idk that they’ll do that but… it would definitely be telling.

I’m ok with sprint, but the movement speed needs to be much higher than it is right now. I think the movement speed with the Halo: CE Pistol Legendary REQ is a good one. Something close to that would be good. Right now it’s just too slow.

I’m completely fine with upping the base movement speed. About 25% of the speed of current sprint would be great.

I don’t mind sprint nor any of the other spartan abilities as each of them are balanced equally . As when you are sprinting it take a spilt second to pull your weapon back out and in 1V1 battles that spilt second could cost you a point.

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> Let’s break this down.
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> As anti-sprinters always say, maps are scaled for sprint. Time taken to move from cover A to cover B in Halo 3 is time taken to sprint from cover A to cover B in Halo 5. So sprint doesn’t help in terms of general movement.
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> Here’s the thing. First maps are elongated for sprint, but then maps allow for escapes too easily. Seems to me like most of the time, the person was in a poor position to pick up that kill in the first place, or they are chasing when they shouldn’t. Both scenarios have played out across all the games, and the elongation you speak of combined wit abilities like thruster and ground pound should allow you to pick off a weak player, sprinting down an elongated piece of the map, without sacrificing position. But only if you were in the optimal combat position to begin with.
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> All of this leads to map elongation. Which is just scaled sprint maps. The elongation itself isn’t bad, it’s a physical map property. Most of the issues I find people arguing about is how the elongation creates so many dead zones. I went back and looked at some of the Halo 3/Halo 4 heatmaps. Seems to me they line up fairly well with Halo 5 heatmaps. When anti-sprinters argue about dead zones, they make it seem like Halo 3 had fights happening in all locations and Halo 5 has it focused to 2-3 spots. But generally, the heatmaps show that Halo has always had an outside/middle dominated heatmap, sort of a circle with a dot in the middle. The space between that was mainly used for traversal, which still seems to be true. So what exactly is it about the Halo 5 dead zones that make them so different to Halo 3 dead zones?

That’s a misconception. Moving from cover A to B in Halo 3 is different because cover itself is designed differently between sprint and non-sprint based games, Halo especially. Again, look at Midship/Heretic to Truth. The latter’s scaled for sprint but it changes more than just the time at which you do something, it changes the very paths you walk on and the geometry surrounding them. And it’s more than just elongation. It’s segmentation which is what makes map movement away from combat easier. Look at Rig, Plaza, Empire, Eden, Solace, Landfall, or any of those H4/H5 era maps. They’re very segmented and corner based, making it easy to break off line of sight with an opponent, and quickly at that. The elongation tied with segmentation makes it very hard to chase a user, no matter the position, nor your abilities, because they can keep that same pace ahead of you, no matter what. You can be in a superior position and still lose your opponent that you chase because of this, and that’s bad.

If you want the best example at how sprint helps general movement, just don’t sprint in a game, see how well you can perform. Given sprint is literally your fastest movement speed, and the maps are designed around that, you can see how you actually NEED to sprint to be able to competently play and navigate maps.

With that, you realize that heatmaps don’t show map movement as a whole, but the base encounters (kills, deaths) and with what weapons/where. When I refer to deadzones, I refer to areas of the map where movement rarely, if ever happens, such as Truth’s bottom mid, areas of Riptide’s bottom mid and indoor bottom areas, Empire and Eden’s bottom mid below turbine, and Plaza’s bottom mid. Movement will rarely occur here unless it’s forced by some objective, be it an OS spawn or a stronghold. In earlier Halos, you didn’t need to be forced through areas to move through them in the first place. Has nothing to do with fights, but just movement.

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> Putting your gun down to sprint is just another tactical option to me, something Halo is full of. Deciding to use a vehicle, equipment in Halo 3, even choosing when to scope with a sniper or not were all decisions that could help or hinder you. Sprint is the same. Yes, I’m not moving around maps faster relative to other Halo games. But I’m moving faster than BMS. I’m getting to a power weapon faster, rushing to help a teammate, etc. In other game modes, like SWAT, i’m never sprinting, gun always ready to fire. It’s about choices.

It’s an illusion of choice, because look at those actions. They’re all basic actions you did it prior Halo games without having to put your weapon down. Using equipment in Halo 3 leads to a delay in your weapon use, but it’s exactly like a grenade’s delay. It’s nothing significant, unless you’re midway through a fight. And a Sniper’s only “hindrance” was the FoV being nerfed ten fold, while you had radar removed, provided you were playing with it on. It didn’t stop you from fighting, but it nullified things that helped your awareness and sight to other things on combat. Using a vehicle took your combat capability with your weapon, but either gave you weapons (Ghost, Wraith), or a means to fight (Warthog splatters), while being able to have another Spartan in tow in the turret/backseat. Combat never really stops if you’re in a vehicle. Sprint is not the same as those, where its use provides nothing but stopped combat.

You realize that you can offer choices in many different ways than just forcing a user to put their weapon down to move at an optimal pace? Earlier Halos recognized this with how the maps were designed around moving with your gun up. As I said earlier, sprint’s nothing more than an illusion of choice which punishes you for doing what was once normal.

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> The final thing I want to talk about is optimal combat speed. A lot of reasons people argue against simply not sprinting is because they feel they aren’t moving around the map at the rate they were meant to. Yet, people mention pegging joysticks as alternate movement speeds, ignore the vertical aspect of Halo 5’s gameplay, and the fact that map positioning is in constant flux after first spawn. Moving around the map at optimal combat speed is just a pretty sound byte to buff the anti-sprint arguments, but ultimately it means very little.

Because you aren’t moving at the rate you’re meant to without it. It’s nothing to do with “feeling”. The maps are designed around sprint, and with it, the momentum it provides, not your base movement speed without it. And you know why map positioning is in constant flux in H5, and generally means very little? Because of sprint and these other abilities, and the amount of unknowns they provide, which breaks pacing, any sense of map knowledge and prediction, and a lack of any true areas to “hold”, because the maps tend to be flat and open to compensate, but also have multiple new areas of which to enter and exit with.

To the point, have you seen CE’s verticality? That game had maps taller than any of Halo 5’s, the latter of which are super compressed vertically, and it didn’t need sprint. You don’t need sprint for vertical gameplay. If anything, if you want proper vertical gameplay, you want sprint out as CE and its sequels showed. Finally, how can you say moving around at an optimal speed (Uninterrupted, is my point) is “just a pretty sound byte” and means little? With how you’re forced to sprint and move in Halo 5 and with how much control’s yanked from you, the argument of moving as fast as you can in an uninterrupted manner is very strong. Moving at optimal speed with your gun up is more than just a sound byte. It’s what makes for good movement, map design, and player flow.

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> If you want to make arguments to help make gameplay better in a competitive sense, then discuss radar, map selection_/design_, and ridiculous weapons like the hydra/smg/PR. Blaming sprint for your failure to adapt is a cop out because you choose to live in the glory years of H2 and H3 when it wasnt part of the game. I use to think the same thing until Halo 5. It has been nerfed. There are no more excuses.

You realize that map design is dictated by sprint, right? And that people who complain about it aren’t doing it for nostalgia purposes, nor because they “suck”/“can’t adapt” (Which is a terribly flawed argument on top of bad logic)? But, I’ll bite. How’s it been nerfed?

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*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

Sprint still =Trash

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> > If you want to make arguments to help make gameplay better in a competitive sense, then discuss radar, map selection_/design_, and ridiculous weapons like the hydra/smg/PR. Blaming sprint for your failure to adapt is a cop out because you choose to live in the glory years of H2 and H3 when it wasnt part of the game. I use to think the same thing until Halo 5. It has been nerfed. There are no more excuses.
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> You realize that map design is dictated by sprint, right? And that people who complain about it aren’t doing it for nostalgia purposes, nor because they “suck”/“can’t adapt” (Which is a terribly flawed argument on top of bad logic)? But, I’ll bite. How’s it been nerfed?

Map design has been terrible in H5 for the most part. Sprint hasn`t been the problem. The flow of the maps and how easy it is to avoid confrontation while having higher ground or power weapon spawns is why so many maps are one sided. I love asymmetrical and symmetrical maps, but the way most have been designed have been advantageous for people sprinting and spartan charging. This is why many anti-sprinters are quick to point the finger. Combined with a smaller radar, it has become a problem I will agree. Many will blame sprint, but the issue is most definitely map design. Sure they stretched out maps to accommodate sprint and I think they shouldnt do so as heavily, but once you look at maps like plaza, regret, or truth, (well made maps) it is obvious that sprinters are at a huge disadvantage. Also, sprinting was nerfed by not allowing shields to recharge unless you stop sprinting for a certain amount of time. (pretty sure you knew this) That was not the case in reach and halo 4. That is what made sprint in those games so annoying to deal with. In halo 5 if you continue to sprint, you stay 1 shot. Sometimes you die, sometimes you live. I personally always try to get my shield back as fast as possible, or if the situation dictates, I will keep sprinting after half shields come back to move towards my teammates for help. The experience of knowing when and how to use the H5 version of sprint is what helps increase the skill gap, which in turn makes for a more interesting and fair matchmaking system.

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> Map design has been terrible in H5 for the most part. Sprint hasn`t been the problem. The flow of the maps and how easy it is to avoid confrontation while having higher ground or power weapon spawns is why so many maps are one sided. I love asymmetrical and symmetrical maps, but the way most have been designed have been advantageous for people sprinting and spartan charging. This is why many anti-sprinters are quick to point the finger. Combined with a smaller radar, it has become a problem I will agree. Many will blame sprint, but the issue is most definitely map design. Sure they stretched out maps to accommodate sprint and I think they shouldnt do so as heavily, but once you look at maps like plaza, regret, or truth, (well made maps) it is obvious that sprinters are at a huge disadvantage. Also, sprinting was nerfed by not allowing shields to recharge unless you stop sprinting for a certain amount of time. (pretty sure you knew this) That was not the case in reach and halo 4. That is what made sprint in those games so annoying to deal with. In halo 5 if you continue to sprint, you stay 1 shot. Sometimes you die, sometimes you live. I personally always try to get my shield back as fast as possible, or if the situation dictates, I will keep sprinting after half shields come back to move towards my teammates for help. The experience of knowing when and how to use the H5 version of sprint is what helps increase the skill gap, which in turn makes for a more interesting and fair matchmaking system.

“The issue is most definitely map design”. Because. Of. Sprint. And the maps leave sprinters at a disadvantage? What? They’re designed for sprint. You literally have every advantage with it, be it momentum when you jump, or speed to get to weapon/power up spawns. You also have an advantage in movement through wide areas. It’s undeniable you have the advantage when sprinting. Because that’s how the game’s been designed to even justify the ability in the first place. And the “nerf” by not having shield recharge means bugger all when you can cut off line of sight due to map segmentation, and keep your distance with the ability, leading to shield recharge. There shouldn’t be a “sometimes you live, sometimes you die” factor. You should always die in a scenario where sprint gets you out of it. If you don’t, the game becomes less skillful and punishing, and rewards/punishes the wrong people. “Knowing” when to sprint is like knowing when to shoot. It’s not a skill, it’s a habit, because of map design, again.

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> > Map design has been terrible in H5 for the most part. Sprint hasn`t been the problem. The flow of the maps and how easy it is to avoid confrontation while having higher ground or power weapon spawns is why so many maps are one sided. I love asymmetrical and symmetrical maps, but the way most have been designed have been advantageous for people sprinting and spartan charging. This is why many anti-sprinters are quick to point the finger. Combined with a smaller radar, it has become a problem I will agree. Many will blame sprint, but the issue is most definitely map design. Sure they stretched out maps to accommodate sprint and I think they shouldnt do so as heavily, but once you look at maps like plaza, regret, or truth, (well made maps) it is obvious that sprinters are at a huge disadvantage. Also, sprinting was nerfed by not allowing shields to recharge unless you stop sprinting for a certain amount of time. (pretty sure you knew this) That was not the case in reach and halo 4. That is what made sprint in those games so annoying to deal with. In halo 5 if you continue to sprint, you stay 1 shot. Sometimes you die, sometimes you live. I personally always try to get my shield back as fast as possible, or if the situation dictates, I will keep sprinting after half shields come back to move towards my teammates for help. The experience of knowing when and how to use the H5 version of sprint is what helps increase the skill gap, which in turn makes for a more interesting and fair matchmaking system.
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> “The issue is most definitely map design”. Because. Of. Sprint. And the maps leave sprinters at a disadvantage? What? They’re designed for sprint. You literally have every advantage with it, be it momentum when you jump, or speed to get to weapon/power up spawns. You also have an advantage in movement through wide areas. It’s undeniable you have the advantage when sprinting. Because that’s how the game’s been designed to even justify the ability in the first place. And the “nerf” by not having shield recharge means bugger all when you can cut off line of sight due to map segmentation, and keep your distance with the ability, leading to shield recharge. There shouldn’t be a “sometimes you live, sometimes you die” factor. You should always die in a scenario where sprint gets you out of it. If you don’t, the game becomes less skillful and punishing, and rewards/punishes the wrong people. “Knowing” when to sprint is like knowing when to shoot. It’s not a skill, it’s a habit, because of map design, again.

You must not fully understand what I mean by “sprinters”. Everyone sprints in halo 5 because of map movement capability, but some people use sprint as their playstyle. The maps are the main problem because instead of making maps that allow sprinting, they have made them to give it an advantage. That is the problem. Also, any kind of added mechanic will increase the skill gap, removing it does not make the game any harder whatsoever. People who are going to challenge too much or push too far always will, whether sprint is in the game or not.

[deleted]

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> You must not fully understand what I mean by “sprinters”. Everyone sprints in halo 5 because of map movement capability, but some people use sprint as their playstyle. The maps are the main problem because instead of making maps that allow sprinting, they have made them to give it an advantage. That is the problem. Also, any kind of added mechanic will increase the skill gap, removing it does not make the game any harder whatsoever. People who are going to challenge too much or push too far always will, whether sprint is in the game or not.

People who justify the use of sprint as a “playstyle” are kinda lying to themselves. It’s not a playstyle mechanic like ground pound would be. It’s a habitual thing you need to use on a consistent basis to even operate properly. It’s not something that emphasizes or helps your playstyle, because it’s not optional, nor offensive, it’s forcibly added onto it. And the thing is, no map can be made with sprint in mind without giving it an advantage, because, again, justification for its use and presence in the first place. It’s either, you design the map so sprint has an advantage and thus, justification, or you just don’t add sprint and design the maps around a uniform movement speed.

And no, adding a mechanic doesn’t automatically increase the skillgap. If anything, the added mechanics in Halo 5 have decreased the skillgap, on top of adding needless clutter and complexity. Simplicity in game builds your skillgap in most shooters. With that simplicity giving way to depthful options, like CE’s movement and the multitudes of things you could do with it, all while keeping your weapon up. In fact, most of the “abilities” Halo 5 presents as these new and hip things are things that were in old games, but had a skillgap behind them and weren’t shoved in your face, nor was the game designed around their constant use. Thrust compensates for a strafe, clamber compensates for crouch jumping, slide compensates for a crouch strafe. Like, none of those things increase the skillgap and if anything, decrease them since you make these once legitimately difficult/skill taking options easy, and commonplace. But on top of that, you decrease accessibility for the casual audience by increasing the amount of buttons you need to press for basic movement among other things. For example, to go as fast as I can possibly go in Halo 5, I need to press four buttons in a strict sequence. In Halo 1-3, I needed one. My left analogue stick. Mashing these buttons isn’t skill, it’s habitual, annoying, and tiring.

If you were to remove all of these abilities and design certain map areas/combat scenarios around crouch jumping and strafing/crouch strafing respectively, you’d have a game that’s not only accessible, but has proper depth to its movement abilities without being gimmicky, alienating, and without decreasing the required skill needed to perform them. You’d also have maps that aren’t consistently designed in an inconsistent manner based around these inconsistent abilities, and would be more widely received in a positive light. But more importantly, you’d have a game that could sustain its own population because it’s:

A.) Accessible without being dumbed down.
B.) Not trying to do other game’s strong suits in a weaker manner, thus homogenizing the FPS market while shooting itself in the foot.
C.) Most importantly, trying to be of its own in identity and style, like Halo once was doing in 2007, before it followed market trends.

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> You must not fully understand what I mean by “sprinters”. Everyone sprints in halo 5 because of map movement capability, but some people use sprint as their playstyle. The maps are the main problem because instead of making maps that allow sprinting, they have made them to give it an advantage. That is the problem. Also, any kind of added mechanic will increase the skill gap, removing it does not make the game any harder whatsoever. People who are going to challenge too much or push too far always will, whether sprint is in the game or not.

No

Any ability that:
-Benefits a lower skilled player more than a higher skilled player
-Allows lower skilled players to perform actions in a similar manner to higher skilled players
-Removes viable options or nullifies actions i.e decreases depth
Decrease the skill gap by bringing the players closer to each other.

For instance:
An Auto Lock on system for aiming.
A lower skilled player who can’t maintain a good aim benefits from this far more than a higher skilled player who can maintain a good aim

Clamber
Allows lower skilled players who can’t routinely manage jumps, a second chance of succeeding the jump, more than a higher skilled player who routinely is successful at jumps.