The sprint discussion thread

[Solemnit]

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> > > > > I can guarantee if Halo stays the exact same, people will complain it’s not evolving.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Agreed. We’ve had sprint for 10 years. It’s time for change.
> > >
> > >
> > > Exactly! So many people think were ‘becoming COD’, How exactly are we doing that? Do you see Spartans in WW2? Of course not lol so many games have sprint, we can’t dwell in the past and hang onto what once was. It’s time for change, it’s time to step up.
> >
> >
> > Yes. Sprint needs to go. It’s time for change. Glad we are in agreement.
>
>
> Hahaha sneaky. Im all for sprint. #MakeHaloGreatAgain

Oh, so you’re all for stagnation, never changing and staying in the past.

[Kepler_425b]

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> > > > > > I can guarantee if Halo stays the exact same, people will complain it’s not evolving.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Agreed. We’ve had sprint for 10 years. It’s time for change.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Exactly! So many people think were ‘becoming COD’, How exactly are we doing that? Do you see Spartans in WW2? Of course not lol so many games have sprint, we can’t dwell in the past and hang onto what once was. It’s time for change, it’s time to step up.
> > >
> > >
> > > Yes. Sprint needs to go. It’s time for change. Glad we are in agreement.
> >
> >
> > Hahaha sneaky. Im all for sprint. #MakeHaloGreatAgain
>
>
> Oh, so you’re all for stagnation, never changing and staying in the past.

The hashtag was a joke lol obviously Halo has always been great. Sure there’s a clear division on people’s opinions on this Halo, but i like it. Halo 3 is my personal favourite and maybe always will be unless 6 blows me away.

[lgregory117]

How can a spartan not sprint??

[ShadowAngel9228]

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> How can a spartan not sprint??

How can a spartan not run and gun?

[SiN_SHOOT2KILL]

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> > How can a spartan not sprint??
>
>
> How can a spartan not run and gun?

If anyone is curious as to how it’s perfectly explainable why a Spartan might not run and gun; I’ve provided this detailed post to this discussion to explain exactly that.

I do want to say that I fully respect UEG ShadowAngel’s dissenting opinions on this particular matter; however I have offered some insight on why I feel sprint/no shoot is better for Halo because:

1. It’s perfectly logical to want to keep Halo the same as it is now and sprint has fit well into Halo over the past 3 AAA installments to the franchise.

Sprint has also continued to be slightly evolved between each new Halo title in order to enhance competitive gameplay - such as the careful balancing that 343i has done to remove the ability for shields to recharge when sprinting and to nix the “sprint/shoot,” idea. For example- they have been able to effectively address the “Cat and Mouse,” games from Halo Reach’s sprint by making sure that shields don’t recharge when sprinting. The result of learning from previous mistakes like that has been a much better overall product regarding gameplay starting from: Reach to Halo 4 to what we have now in Halo 5.

Why go back on all that hard work now?

Why not continue to improve upon sprint?

The decision to keep sprint is a much better option versus trying to change everything about Halo’s core movement mechanics now and trying to send the developers all the way back to the drawing boards to start over with that by trying to create, tweak, and balance entirely new movement mechanics in the absence of sprint (Along with all the residual tertiary effects of removing it- such as the impact that would have on other armor abilities, modifications, weapons, etc that all now branch off of sprint in Halo).

With sprint the developers are free to instead focus on much more important issues like developing new game types, enemies, weapons, maps, etc etc etc.

2. Sprint/no shoot is more realistic than sprint/shoot (in that sprint/no shoot virtually models modern day military training/Basic Rifle Markmenship on how to properly fire weapons),

3. Sprint/no shoot looks more realistic versus tweaking BMS to a sprint pace while holding the rifle at the ready because that appears unnatural as far as movement is concerned, and

4. I think that sprint/no shoot is better for gameplay because it also provides an additional layer of skill to the game to learn to master it…

What I mean is that you as the player must be able to assess, identify, and distinguish between situations when you should either:

a) avoid using sprint to prevent yourself from getting “burned,” for sprinting too often thereby leaving yourself vulnerable where you might have been better off walking (like when using a sniper rifle in mid-range combat where you may be particularly vulnerable) and/or

b) be capable of knowing when and where to push on the offensive with the sprint pace instead of the walking pace.

Granted this is all coming from a pro sprint perspective, so take from it what you will! Anyway thanks for considering this!!

[harithavaraj]

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> > > >
> > > > Those arguments being larger maps, having to put a gun down, and cat and mouse gameplay. The problem with these three arguments is that they have existed in games before sprint, and therefore, to 343i or anyone with any actual say in the franchise, these problems are not related to sprint.
> > > >
> > > > As many Waypointers love to say, the burden of proof falls to those making the claim. In the 343 era of Halo, sprint is in the game, meaning those who want it removed should be offering compelling reasons for its removal. So far, that hasn’t happened.
> > >
> > >
> > > Weapons down were “a problem before sprint”? What?
> > > Of course you can have issues like that without sprint, they are issues on their own due to problems in other aspects of the game design. However, and a big however, that doesn’t mean sprint isn’t more fuel on the fire.
> > >
> > > You do realise that the existense of sprint in Halo does not exempt anyone from your “burden of proof” phrase? Its existence is not proof of any claim other than “Sprint is in Halo”.
> >
> >
> > The current default position, of a 343 made Halo, is sprint is in the game. Theyve made that abundantly clear. Burden of proof being to swing the decision to a non-default position, that being Halo without sprint. That’s yours, and many others, to argue. Most of you claim Halo is better without sprint.
> >
> > Understand? Or shall I break it down some more?
> >
> > Edit:
> > Weapon down is just emblematic of the larger issue, that being removal of combat options. Which occurred when using equipment, dual wielding, choosing to wield a melee weapon, etc. Sprint has offensive uses.
>
>
> So yes? Any pro-sprinter is exempt from the “burden of proof” despite what they claim, when they do and how they do it? Because Halo having sprint is proof enough of their claim.
>
> Also like that there has been “no compelling” reason to remove it, because that’s entirely up to you to judge. Just like there never were any compelling reasons to remove any of the other present mechanics we have today, because their existence in the game is proof enough of them being good for the game. Dual wielding, Custom Loadouts, Bloom, Armor Abilities.
>
> Let me get this straight, you’re putting short animations on asset usage and asset attributes (range) in the same category as a mechanical action?
>
> So you say, yet you most likely will point towards an ability which only has sprint as a prerequisite of performing it, in which you go from sprinting, to the new action in which you are not sprinting, do not continue sprinting afterwards and which prerequisite could easily be removed / replaced. Or?

1. It’s not up to me to judge, it’s for 343 to judge. And they seem to echo my sentiment.

After two 343 games, there is sprint. The outcry for Halo 4 wasn’t enough apparently. Hence it being the default position. Bloom, Custom Loadouts, AAs were present in the franchise and subsequently removed when proved to be detrimental. People like custom loadouts in Reach but despised them when 343 made them, interesting. 343 kept the core of Halo Reach and spun off the bad parts. That’s the community showing them their default position (Halo Reach) was poor. Their next showing was H4, where they moved to what we have now. What remained constant? Sprint. Pro-sprinters are exempt from burden of proof because we are the defendants. Sprint is being accused of ruining Halo. If it’s really that hard for you all to understand, simply stop using burden of proof. Most anti-sprinters love to throw around pretty sound bytes and big words to make their arguments fluffed up. In reality, there is very little objective difference between “I think sprint is fun cause I kill faster” and “sprint is increasingly taking Halo away from its Arena roots by providing superfluous gimmicks to gameplay”. Oh sure, one sounds much nicer, but they are both substandard claims that can be debunked.

I am indeed. If the largest pull against sprint is that it forces you to lose combat control for a few moments, I will gladly group that in with superfluous gimmicks like equipment and dual wielding. Both exist to augment combat while hindering you in some way. Like sprint.

Yes, I will point to Spartan Charge as a combat possibility of sprint. The fact that sprint is a prerequisite doesn’t change anything. It’s still a combat possibility born of sprint.

If anti-sprinters took less of a condescending tone with anyone who doesn’t approve of their views, they may find that they get more pull in how the franchise goes. That and maybe anti-sprinters need to get together and figure out what it is exactly that they want. This thread started as a “Sprint needs to be removed from Halo”. Over the last 600 pages, there have been multiple different views on where sprint should go. “Keep it in BTB Warzone, keep it in campaign, remove Spartan Charge and buff the radar and keep it, etc”.

[harithavaraj]

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> > > Okay if you dont like sprint go play reach or mcc on xbox one
> >
> >
> > Things like this is the reason neither side will ever listen.
> >
> >
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> > > I think we’re all done arguing with you SiN SHOOT2KILL. You provide “reasons” as to why your argument still remains valid but the truth and fact of the matter is that anything we say will not further this discussion at all nor will it change your mind.
> > >
> > > The fact of the matter is as follows:
> > >
> > > 1. You want sprint in a competitive multiplayer game
> > > 2. The vast majority of the Halo community (people who were major players since halo CE, and have since quit thanks to Halo 5) hate sprint and asked for it to be removed after Halo 4. 343 decided to ignore than and put sprint in halo 5.
> > > 3. With overwhelming evidence to support the fact that Sprint simply doesn’t work in Halo games, along with the lead designer on Halo 2 and 3 saying they didn’t include it because it didn’t promote good gameplay, there simply is no reason to keep it in.
> > >
> > > You’re going to continue the fight though …so… on that note, I don’t think I really have anything to say further on the matter.
> >
> >
> > I’d love to know where you got the fact about point 2.
> >
> > Just because someone couldn’t implement a mechanic in one game doesn’t exclude it from the entire series.
> >
> > Former members of Bungie have also told 343 to move ahead with their vision of Halo. Do we really start to treat what Bungie says as word of God?
> >
> > If the overwhelming evidence you mention is the arguments of this thread, however you feel they are represented, arguments against those still exist, and this argument is not over.
> >
> > Quick note. Don’t say “the fact of the matter is as follows”, then proceed to list someone’s point of view and random subjective thoughts on sprint.
>
>
>
>
> > The Fact of the matter is as follows
>
>
> fair point
>
>
>
>
> > I’d love to know where you got the fact about point 2.
> >
> > Just because someone couldn’t implement a mechanic in one game doesn’t exclude it from the entire series.
>
>
> Fair enough but we’ve had 2 games now where a majority absolutely hate the mechanic. It hasn’t gotten any better.
> I could list off a ton of youtubers and pro players that hate the mechanic as being a part of halo, but I really dont have the time nor the will to do the work for you. Finding pro sprint professional players is few and far between. Just surf youtube for an hour.
> I believe this → http://i.imgur.com/mAz8UIa.png --speaks for itself.
>
>
>
>
> > Do we really start to treat what Bungie says as word of God?
>
>
> I’m not saying that we have to hail to all mighty Bungie, but the people who made Halo 2 and 3 multiplayer seem to have a very good understanding of what makes a mechanic work as they spent multiple months after E3 making specifically multiplayer work. Someone who has invested over 8 years worth of time into figuring out what mechanics make multiplayer work and what don’t, probably have a really good idea of what’s going on.
>
> I had a conversation with Jamie Goresmear (lead designer on both Halo 2 and 3) here recently on Twitter: http://i.imgur.com/8DR9cS9.png
> He doesn’t seem to echo the statement of other Bungie people.
>
> Overwhelming evidence comes from the fact that the Halo community as a whole has died. MLG doesn’t include this as an official sport outside of the Halo Championships which are hosted by Microsoft. Halo 5 is #18 on the most played list and falling every day, and you rarely hear anyone talk about it outside of gaming social circles. To say that’s all Sprint’s fault would not be correct as it is just one of the major pillars that stands along other minor and major pillars that have made Halo 5 a failure. Many long time Halo Fan Streamers have pointed to Sprint being an incredibly contraversal topic and one that breaks gameplay mechanics.
>
> Here, watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQ6zDz5tMhw
> He pretty much sums up most of the toipcs. A quick YouTube search though will echo the fact that the majority of the community hates sprint. I’m not sure where you think this majority “pro-sprint” crowd is but…

Here, I’ll say it like this.

About 13 million people played Halo 3. If you can show me a poll, or a survey, or something in which more than 6.5 million people said that sprint did not belong in Halo, then I’d avocate for a change, but only based on the fairness of democracy and the right for a majority to be heard.

For now, all you’re telling me is that people on the support forums and old school competitive forums hate sprint. Everyone knows that. As for the pro crowd, only a few of them are active on sites like Team Beyond. The rest are focused on, you guessed it, getting better at the game.

Have you never heard of vocal minority?

As for Jaime Griesemer, I do recall he worked on Halo Reach as well. Your twitter conversation with him suggested that he was unsure how to make sprint work with Halo. He also said they had it on CE, and that it didn’t work on the Xbox with the smaller maps. If 343 found a way to implement it, like they did in Halo 5 ( versus how it was in Halo 4 or Halo Reach), maybe they accomplished something he couldn’t. He certainly tried his best with Reach. And he was lead designer for Destiny, was he not? I still can’t figure why Bungie would give up something like Halo.

I don’t even care that much. I liked Halo 3. I like Halo 5. If Halo 6 were to come out without sprint, I’d but the most expensive version, Day 1. Sprint doesn’t make or break the game for me. But too often, the faults of the series are placed squarely onto the shoulders of sprint, and I think that’s unfair. Couple that with the way that pro-sprinters are treated within the vocal community, and it gets harder to harder to try and enjoy a video game series when it’s own community is trying to tear it down. Would a pre-2010 era Halo work in today’s gaming market? I don’t know.

[Zr0Fear_v2]

> 2535418851574306;11978:
> I like sprint. I think we should keep it for both campaign and multiplayer. It makes it more fast paced and keeps you focused at all times. I can guarantee if Halo stays the exact same, people will complain it’s not evolving. With that being said however, too much change isn’t a good thing. This is just my opinion on this matter.

What if I told you sprint doesn’t make the game as faster paced as you think (even going as far to say it’s slower paced)? Sprint is more about making the game feel faster paced rather than actually making it faster paced, but that could also be accomplished by either bumping up the base speed or messing with the field of view or a combination both. Doing either of those would also eliminate a number of problems sprint causes in the first place. After all, wouldn’t the next evolution in movement be allowing to people to move quickly and fight at the same time instead of leaving those two concepts seperate from each other? Make them one in the same.

[UK1V]

Just thought I’d pop in here and say Sprint for the win!

[Phanos]

Spartans are super soldiers, human weapons designed for war and are trained at their physical peak. It would make absolutely no sense for them to not be able to sprint.

[U_be_Sonic]

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> > > How can a spartan not sprint??
> >
> >
> > How can a spartan not run and gun?
>
>
> If anyone is curious as to how it’s perfectly explainable why a Spartan might not run and gun; I’ve provided this detailed post to this discussion to explain exactly that.
>
> I do want to say that I fully respect UEG ShadowAngel’s dissenting opinions on this particular matter; however I have offered some insight on why I feel sprint/no shoot is better for Halo because:
>
> 1) It’s perfectly logical to want to keep Halo the same as it is now and sprint has fit well into Halo over the past 3 AAA installments to the franchise.
>
> Sprint has also continued to be slightly evolved between each new Halo title in order to enhance competitive gameplay - such as the careful balancing that 343i has done to remove the ability for shields to recharge when sprinting and to nix the “sprint/shoot,” idea. For example- they have been able to effectively address the “Cat and Mouse,” games from Halo Reach’s sprint by making sure that shields don’t recharge when sprinting. The result of learning from previous mistakes like that has been a much better overall product regarding gameplay starting from: Reach to Halo 4 to what we have now in Halo 5.
>
> Why go back on all that hard work now?
>
> Why not continue to improve upon sprint?
>
> The decision to keep sprint is a much better option versus trying to change everything about Halo’s core movement mechanics now and trying to send the developers all the way back to the drawing boards to start over with that by trying to create, tweak, and balance entirely new movement mechanics in the absence of sprint (Along with all the residual tertiary effects of removing it- such as the impact that would have on other armor abilities, modifications, weapons, etc that all now branch off of sprint in Halo).
>
> With sprint the developers are free to instead focus on much more important issues like developing new game types, enemies, weapons, maps, etc etc etc.
>
> 2) Sprint/no shoot is more realistic than sprint/shoot (in that sprint/no shoot virtually models modern day military training/Basic Rifle Markmenship on how to properly fire weapons),
>
> 3) Sprint/no shoot looks more realistic versus tweaking BMS to a sprint pace while holding the rifle at the ready because that appears unnatural as far as movement is concerned, and
>
> 4) I think that sprint/no shoot is better for gameplay because it also provides an additional layer of skill to the game to learn to master it…
>
> What I mean is that you as the player must be able to assess, identify, and distinguish between situations when you should either:
>
> a) avoid using sprint to prevent yourself from getting “burned,” for sprinting too often thereby leaving yourself vulnerable where you might have been better off walking (like when using a sniper rifle in mid-range combat where you may be particularly vulnerable) and/or
>
> b) be capable of knowing when and where to push on the offensive with the sprint pace instead of the walking pace.
>
> Granted this is all coming from a pro sprint perspective, so take from it what you will! Anyway thanks for considering this!!

Blah blah blah

Sprint makes halo feel terrible for hordes of people. I honestly think recent halo games are the only FPS games ever created that feature 1-2 full second kill times and sprint. Long kill times don’t mix well with sprint. Every other developer on earth and throughout history understands this.

[U_be_Sonic]

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> Spartans are supwr soldiers, human weapons designed for war and are trained at their physical peak. It would make absolutely no sense for them to not be able to sprint.

It makes no sense that they can’t shoot, move sideways, backwards or diagonally at high speed.

It’s also more importantly, not fun at all.

[system]

[deleted]

[Zr0Fear_v2]

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> I had a conversation with Jamie Goresmear (lead designer on both Halo 2 and 3) here recently on Twitter: http://i.imgur.com/8DR9cS9.pngHe doesn’t seem to echo the statement of other Bungie people.

Thanks for screencap of that conversation. That’s definitely something that will need to be referenced a lot, particularly since people like to bring up sprint being tested for Halo 2 as if it’s some sort of proof that it should’ve been in sooner.

[SiN_SHOOT2KILL]

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> > > > How can a spartan not sprint??
> > >
> > >
> > > How can a spartan not run and gun?
> >
> >
> > I do want to say that I fully respect UEG ShadowAngel’s dissenting opinions however I have some insight on why I feel sprint/no shoot is better for Halo:
> >
> > 1) It’s perfectly logical to want to keep Halo the same as it is now and sprint has fit well into Halo over the past 3 AAA installments to the franchise.
> >
> > Sprint has continued to be evolved between each new Halo title in order to enhance competitive gameplay - such as the careful balancing that 343i has done to remove the ability for shields to recharge when sprinting and to nix the “sprint/shoot,” idea. For example- they have been able to effectively address the “Cat and Mouse,” games from Halo Reach’s sprint by making sure that shields don’t recharge when sprinting. The result of learning from previous mistakes like that has been a much better overall product regarding gameplay starting from Reach to H4 to what we have now in H5.
> >
> > Why go back on all that hard work now?
> >
> > Why not continue to improve upon sprint?
> >
> > The decision to keep sprint is a much better option versus trying to change everything about Halo’s core movement mechanics now and trying to send the developers all the way back to the drawing boards to start over with that by trying to create, tweak, and balance entirely new movement mechanics in the absence of sprint (Along with all the residual tertiary effects of removing it- such as the impact that would have on other armor abilities, modifications, weapons, etc that all now branch off of sprint in Halo).
> >
> > With sprint the developers are free to instead focus on much more important issues like developing new game types, enemies, weapons, maps, etc etc etc.
> >
> > 2) Sprint/no shoot is more realistic than sprint/shoot (in that sprint/no shoot virtually models modern day military training/Basic Rifle Markmenship on how to properly fire weapons),
> >
> > 3) Sprint/no shoot looks more realistic versus tweaking BMS to a sprint pace while holding the rifle at the ready because that appears unnatural as far as movement is concerned, &
> >
> > 4) I think that sprint/no shoot is better for gameplay because it also provides an additional layer of skill to the game to learn to master it…
> >
> > What I mean is that you as the player must be able to distinguish between situations when you should
> >
> > a) avoid using sprint to prevent yourself from getting “burned,” for sprinting too often thereby leaving yourself vulnerable where you might have been better off walking like when using a sniper rifle in mid-range combat where you may be particularly vulnerable and/or
> >
> > b) be capable of knowing when and where to push on the offensive with the sprint pace instead of the walking pace.
> >
> > Granted this is all coming from a pro sprint perspective, so take from it what you will! Anyway thanks for considering this!!
>
>
> Blah blah blah

“Blah blah blah,” huh?

Look I respect your opinion on the matter just like anyone else’s but the fact that you’re really going to try and write off my entire post as “Blah blah blah,” (while humorous to an extent) indicates that you just don’t care what I had to say; nor did you read it even. The points still stand to defend why sprint/no shoot is good for Halo, although you clearly disagree with them.

The original question was, “How can a spartan not run and gun?” And I answered that open-ended question with how that could be; conceding that it was coming from a pro sprinter such as myself and that anti sprinters may not fully agree with me even. But that doesn’t negate the fact that there are a ton of reasons why it could be perfectly logical to assume that Spartans would want to enter a dead sprint with their rifles catered in the exact same manner that the real militaries do it today.

There are multiple other reasons why the rifle is catered (like you see in Halo 5) beyond the obvious fact that accuracy is difficult to attain the faster/longer the human body is moving (Spartans are still human by the way, no matter how “super,” people think they are. Just as Lasky reminded the Master Chief at the of Halo 4, “You say that like soldiers and humanity are two different things. Soldiers aren’t machines. We’re just people.”).

The idea of potentially implementing sprint/shoot for Halo (which is what anti sprinters are calling for when they suggest tweaking one BMS to try and drop sprint) goes beyond the implication by anti sprinters as to whether or not Spartans could do it, the question starts with whether or not they even should.

Also remember that the basic and proper fundamentals of rifle marksmanship literally cannot be applied when traveling at a deadsprint, such as with the sprint speed in Halo 5.

You also don’t want to lose your rifle either- because running around with loose objects (like a weapon) can leave room for it to snag on objects and obstacles in the way; especially over larger distances… Because if you lose your weapon in combat then you’re basically dead anyway (Cue: Full Metal Jacket movie scene “The Rifleman’s Creed”).

And sure you could pick up and use a dropped weapon (as long as it doesn’t get stuck, broken, or dropped off of a cliff) but that weapon will be dirty (And dirt can and will create obstructions within the barrel making the weapon malfunction; potentially breaking both the weapon and maybe even the person trying to shoot it)… Dropping a weapon the wrong way can damage the weapon; rendering it completely inoperable (Try seeing a Spartan attempt to explain that one to a commanding officer in Halo).

Not to mention you should really be concerned with watching where the heck you’re walking when running around with a loaded weapon (especially in combat); versus trying to be gung-ho and wreck less about it… Weapon safety and muzzle awareness is critical; especially when sprinting with a weapon. A lot of people have neglected this and often times get themselves hurt. Here’s a clip you can see for yourself as to why muzzle awareness is important (Caveat: no one gets hurt in this YouTube clip- it’s a brief clip demonstrating some of what can go wrong when people do dumb stuff with weapons because they didn’t respect weapon safety and muzzle awareness like they were supposed to).

But aside from the silliness you see in that video, people can (and unfortunately do) actually get hurt like that… And if soldiers are sprinting around all the time with their weapon at the ready they could easily trip and blast their buddy next to them and/or blast themselves doing something that stupid (I’m confident video evidence on the internet exists but I’m not interested in searching for or watching such things happen). Soldiers (such as the Spartans) also need pay attention to multiple things at once in a combat situation, but you literally can’t do any of that if you’re trotting around everywhere with the weapon up at the ready at all times.

Running in a “spray and pray,” blasting technique is quite simply ill-advised; especially for a soldier in a combat situation. Do you think Bungie came up with the sprint animation on accident?? They (along with many FPS video game companies before and after Halo was even developed) probably hired military consultants to help them achieve greater accuracy throughout the development cycle of the video game. And there’s a reason that people get paid to do things like that for movie and video game companies- it’s because the accurate portrayal of the military and combat is absolutely important to consumers/viewers of those movies and game.

[Soup7218]

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> > > > > > > > > > > > You can’t win in an opinionated discussion like this. This thread is called, “The Sprint Discussion,” not the “Tryhard for Antisprint Diehards,” Thread. Winning or losing will be determined on whether or not sprint will be in Halo 6; which won’t be impacted by this debate- no matter how hard you want to be a tryhard in this thread and/or force your anti sprint opinions on people.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > If you enjoy sprint so much, then why are you in this feed everyday? I understand you are trying to defend it but shouldn’t you be enjoying Halo 5 right now then? When Halo 3 came out I played non-stop, watched funny machinimas, and enjoyed talking to people in in-game lobbies. I didn’t even touch a forum for years because of how good the game was but now I’m in the forums trying to fix Halo because it’s not fun anymore and things need to start changing back.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > You said it right there- what I’ve been getting at. It’s because so many pro sprinters don’t even know this is an issue at all. It’s also because the outspoken minority (anti sprinters) have taken to this thread to try and over-inflate the issue and make it seem they’re the majority on an issue by attacking pro sprinters. But I am in this thread to take part in a neutral and (hopefully) productive discussion about sprint and to demonstrate that many Halo fans have a lot of good reasons for keeping sprint in Halo.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Honestly, we just want Halo to have no sprint because it just happens to be that the most popular Halos (Halo 2 and Halo 3) both didn’t have sprint and that (and other things of course) is what made Halo so much more different from all of the other shooters out at the time. You don’t need to fix whats not broken.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Exactly, Halo was nerver broken, and sprint does not enhance Halo.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > of course sprint enhances halo if you read the books spartans are supposed to be able to sprint at minimum of 25 miles per hour and are the strongest most athletic beings the human colonies have to offer its not microsoft 343s or our fault that you don’t like it
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > What kind of super soldiers are they really if they can’t shoot while sprinting. Or do anything for that matter while sprinting.
> > >
> > >
> > > It’s totally feasible that a soldier would lower their weapon when entering a dead sprint… Have you ever tried to run with a rifle? Guess what? You cannot run/shoot at the same time- there’s a reason why the military teaches people (and the NRA echoes) the four fundamentals of marksmanship- 1) Steady Position, 2) Aiming, 3) Breath Control, and 4) Trigger Squeeze. You cannot properly execute any of those fundamentals when sprinting (no matter how “super,” you might be)- and the Spartans were trained to shoot without the Mjolnir armor anyway.
> > >
> > > Point is that your shot misses where you intend to shoot it when you try to shoot when sprinting. That’s why the military teaches people to run, drop, then shoot to provide cover. Again, no shooting while running- you’d probably just frag your own people in the back by trying to do something like that. That’s not to say that Halo has to echo combat in real life- but for the umpteenth time- sprinting without shooting is completely realistic. Plus as I’ve stated to you in the past, 343i’s Executive Producer has already stated that they carefully balanced sprint to enhance competitive multiplayer. Point is that if they decided that sprint/no shoot helps balance gameplay then so be it- the result did help balance competitive gameplay in Halo 5… Furthermore this is another reason why Halo isn’t like CoD- they do have sprint/shoot in CoD and the combat isn’t as balanced.
> >
> >
> > those are regular solders/hunters not bio engineers super solders capable of going toe to toe with an 800 pound space gorilla with only there hands and arnour
>
>
> The Spartans were trained to shoot weapons without their Mjolnir armor suits. And guns are still guns no matter how “super,” the soldier is- they require an appropriate amount of skill in order to shoot them accurately. There’s no reason to assume that Spartans wouldn’t still need to fire them correctly by stopping their sprint in order to execute proper marksmanship.

No one cares about the lore aspect on regards to mulitplayer, most of us who left only played Coz the gameplay appealed to us In way other games didn’t, now it doesnt so we don’t play anymore and won’t till it feels how it was. Why should we play a game Coz it has halo on the box? We want OUR game back we the millions who put bungie on the map.

[Naqser]

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> > >
>
>
> Why not continue to improve upon sprint?
>
> The decision to keep sprint is a much better option versus trying to change everything about Halo’s core movement mechanics now and trying to send the developers all the way back to the drawing boards to start over with that by trying to create, tweak, and balance entirely new movement mechanics in the absence of sprint (Along with all the residual tertiary effects of removing it- such as the impact that would have on other armor abilities, modifications, weapons, etc that all now branch off of sprint in Halo).
>
> With sprint the developers are free to instead focus on much more important issues like developing new game types, enemies, weapons, maps, etc etc etc.

What? More work put into sprint, more resources spent, and they’re free to instead focus on other stuff?
This does not add up.

Would also be no difference to when they added sprint as a default mechanic, same stuff done either way.

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> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Those arguments being larger maps, having to put a gun down, and cat and mouse gameplay. The problem with these three arguments is that they have existed in games before sprint, and therefore, to 343i or anyone with any actual say in the franchise, these problems are not related to sprint.
> > > > >
> > > > > As many Waypointers love to say, the burden of proof falls to those making the claim. In the 343 era of Halo, sprint is in the game, meaning those who want it removed should be offering compelling reasons for its removal. So far, that hasn’t happened.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Weapons down were “a problem before sprint”? What?
> > > > Of course you can have issues like that without sprint, they are issues on their own due to problems in other aspects of the game design. However, and a big however, that doesn’t mean sprint isn’t more fuel on the fire.
> > > >
> > > > You do realise that the existense of sprint in Halo does not exempt anyone from your “burden of proof” phrase? Its existence is not proof of any claim other than “Sprint is in Halo”.
>
>
> 1) It’s not up to me to judge, it’s for 343 to judge. And they seem to echo my sentiment.
>
> After two 343 games, there is sprint. The outcry for Halo 4 wasn’t enough apparently. Hence it being the default position. Bloom, Custom Loadouts, AAs were present in the franchise and subsequently removed when proved to be detrimental. People like custom loadouts in Reach but despised them when 343 made them, interesting. 343 kept the core of Halo Reach and spun off the bad parts. That’s the community showing them their default position (Halo Reach) was poor. Their next showing was H4, where they moved to what we have now. What remained constant? Sprint. Pro-sprinters are exempt from burden of proof because we are the defendants. Sprint is being accused of ruining Halo. If it’s really that hard for you all to understand, simply stop using burden of proof. Most anti-sprinters love to throw around pretty sound bytes and big words to make their arguments fluffed up. In reality, there is very little objective difference between “I think sprint is fun cause I kill faster” and “sprint is increasingly taking Halo away from its Arena roots by providing superfluous gimmicks to gameplay”. Oh sure, one sounds much nicer, but they are both substandard claims that can be debunked.
>
> I am indeed. If the largest pull against sprint is that it forces you to lose combat control for a few moments, I will gladly group that in with superfluous gimmicks like equipment and dual wielding. Both exist to augment combat while hindering you in some way. Like sprint.
>
> Yes, I will point to Spartan Charge as a combat possibility of sprint. The fact that sprint is a prerequisite doesn’t change anything. It’s still a combat possibility born of sprint.
>
> If anti-sprinters took less of a condescending tone with anyone who doesn’t approve of their views, they may find that they get more pull in how the franchise goes. That and maybe anti-sprinters need to get together and figure out what it is exactly that they want. This thread started as a “Sprint needs to be removed from Halo”. Over the last 600 pages, there have been multiple different views on where sprint should go. “Keep it in BTB Warzone, keep it in campaign, remove Spartan Charge and buff the radar and keep it, etc”.

1: Because a game that is one year old, using a mechanic that was nerfed not once, but twice since Halo 4. A game that is made with and for its mechanics, some tied directly to sprint. At this point in time, they seem “echo” your sentiment. Or, do you have inside info on the development of Halo 6?

Myes, two games, they’re evil for trying to salvage something from a previous game. Two is not a pattern.
You do realise loadouts, perks and somewhat ordnance still is in this game in new forms? They weren’t cut, they’re in Warzone in a slightly different form.

Either way, I find it very ironic that you confidently state that there is no compelling argument, and that the proof is that sprint is in the game.
If we pull the timer back a couple of years, ending up in Halo 4’s time frame, that exact reasoning, that exact phrasing, works perfectly with AA’s, “no compelling argument, the proof is that AA’s are in”, yet in present time AA’s are gone, how?
So, unless you’re sitting on some information regarding Halo 6, you can’t possibly state that there isn’t a single compelling argument against sprint according to i343.

Oh please do explain how any pro-sprint that comes out of the blue claiming that Sprint speeds the game up or whatever mechanical stuff that may get written off or added, is exempt from providing any proof for those claims.

“Sprint is in the game”, isn’t an explanation or proof of the effect that sprint supposedly increase the game speed.

Of course you do, a quick action enhancing combat, while in combat, is in the exact same leagues as a long non-combat action hindering combat actions, while apparently meant to enhance combat actions.

No, Spartan Charge isn’t sprint, it is an entirely different action.

I don’t care what other anti-sprinters want, I’m here for my own reasons, I’m just lucky if there are people who agree with me.

[Revilo]

Alright I’m tired of this thread now so i’m just going to jump to conclusion since this whole discussion/debate is going nowhere but in circles. In the end, it’s all up to 343i on what the ultimate decision is. If they decide to keep sprint, which in my opinion is a bad decision, there is nothing us Anti-sprinters can do to stop it. If 343i removes sprint, which is very possible due to the fact they have removed other gameplay mechanics before (AAs, Dual Wielding, Equipment, etc.) then there is nothing Pro-Sprinters can do to stop it. We discussed just about everything in this one thread and now it’s just resulted in repetition and re-explanations and that’s probably why this thread will never die till we hear the news we want to hear sooner than later. Hopefully 343i looks at this thread carefully (and others) and makes a final decision on what they want and how they want to build Halo 6. I just want to feel the nostalgia of classic Halo again (Hopefully H3A and H6 can accomplish this).

[Naqser]

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> > > > > How can a spartan not sprint??
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > How can a spartan not run and gun?
>
>
>
> The original question was, “How can a spartan not run and gun?” And I answered that open-ended question with how that could be; conceding that it was coming from a pro sprinter such as myself and that anti sprinters may not fully agree with me even. But that doesn’t negate the fact that there are a ton of reasons why it could be perfectly logical to assume that Spartans would want to enter a dead sprint with their rifles catered in the exact same manner that the real militaries do it today.
>
> There are multiple additional reasons as to why the rifle is catered (like you see in Halo 5) beyond the obvious fact that accuracy is difficult to attain the faster/longer the human body is moving (Spartans are still human by the way, no matter how “super,” people think they are. Just as Lasky reminded the Master Chief at the of Halo 4, “You say that like soldiers and humanity are two different things. Soldiers aren’t machines. We’re just people.”).
>
> Also remember that the basic and proper fundamentals of rifle marksmanship literally cannot be applied when traveling at a deadsprint, such as with the sprint speed in Halo 5.
>
> You also don’t want to lose your rifle either- because running around with loose objects (like a weapon) can leave room for it to snag on objects and obstacles in the way; especially over larger distances… Because if you lose your weapon in combat then you’re basically dead anyway (Cue: Full Metal Jacket movie scene “The Rifleman’s Creed”).
>
> And sure you could pick up and use a dropped weapon (as long as it doesn’t get stuck, broken, or dropped off of a cliff) but that weapon will be dirty (And dirt can and will create obstructions within the barrel making the weapon malfunction; potentially breaking both the weapon and maybe even the person trying to shoot it)… Dropping a weapon the wrong way can damage the weapon; rendering it completely inoperable (Try seeing a Spartan attempt to explain that one to a commanding officer in Halo).
>
> Not to mention you should really be concerned with watching where the heck you’re walking when running around with a loaded weapon (especially in combat); versus trying to be gung-ho and wreck less about it… Weapon safety and muzzle awareness is critical; especially when sprinting with a weapon. A lot of people have neglected this and often times get themselves hurt. Here’s a clip you can see for yourself as to why muzzle awareness is important (Caveat: no one gets hurt in this YouTube clip- it’s a brief clip demonstrating some of what can go wrong when people do dumb stuff with weapons because they didn’t respect weapon safety and muzzle awareness like they were supposed to).
>
> But aside from the silliness you see in that video, people can (and unfortunately do) actually get hurt like that… And if soldiers are sprinting around all the time with their weapon at the ready they could easily trip and blast their buddy next to them and/or blast themselves doing something that stupid (I’m confident video evidence on the internet exists but I’m not interested in searching for or watching such things happen). Soldiers (such as the Spartans) also need pay attention to multiple things at once in a combat situation, but you literally can’t do any of that if you’re trotting around everywhere with the weapon up at the ready at all times.
>
> Running in a “spray and pray,” blasting technique is quite simply ill-advised; especially for a soldier in a combat situation. Do you think Bungie came up with the sprint animation on accident?? They (along with many FPS video game companies before and after Halo was even developed) probably hired military consultants to help them achieve greater accuracy throughout the development cycle of the video game. And there’s a reason that people get paid to do things like that for movie and video game companies- it’s because the accurate portrayal of the military and combat is absolutely important to consumers/viewers of those movies and game.

"This is the Mark 6.5 Gen 1 armor

Updates to it include counter weights, ACES short for Automated Close Environment Scanner and MAS short for Movement Accuracy Stabilisators.

The counter weights: These automated weights placed in appropriate places in the armor counter act the natural motion needed from a human to reach their top most speed. This allow the wearer to reach their top most speed without having to utilise their arms and upper body. Resulting in the wearer being able to have their weapon raised at all times.
Be warned, the user may exceed their top speed and may be subject of injury due to straining their body too much as the armor can exceed the body’s own limits in terms of speeds.

ACES, Automated Close Environment Scanner: As the name suggests this is an environmental scanner which monitors the immediate area around the armor for obstacles that may cause balance issues and compensates in the movement for those obstacles.

Warning, the system can make minute adjustments, but can’t stop the user if there ever would be needed, falling off cliffs is still possible.

MAS, Movement Accuracy Stabilisators: The upper body has a new system installed which enables pin point accuracy at all speeds the user may reach."

[Soup7218]

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> > > >
> >
> >
> > Why not continue to improve upon sprint?
> >
> > The decision to keep sprint is a much better option versus trying to change everything about Halo’s core movement mechanics now and trying to send the developers all the way back to the drawing boards to start over with that by trying to create, tweak, and balance entirely new movement mechanics in the absence of sprint (Along with all the residual tertiary effects of removing it- such as the impact that would have on other armor abilities, modifications, weapons, etc that all now branch off of sprint in Halo).
> >
> > With sprint the developers are free to instead focus on much more important issues like developing new game types, enemies, weapons, maps, etc etc etc.
>
>
> What? More work put into sprint, more resources spent, and they’re free to instead focus on other stuff?
> This does not add up.
>
> Would also be no difference to when they added sprint as a default mechanic, same stuff done either way.
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274848599184;11989:
> > > 2533274795123910;11975:
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> > > > > > > 2533274909445208;11935:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Those arguments being larger maps, having to put a gun down, and cat and mouse gameplay. The problem with these three arguments is that they have existed in games before sprint, and therefore, to 343i or anyone with any actual say in the franchise, these problems are not related to sprint.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As many Waypointers love to say, the burden of proof falls to those making the claim. In the 343 era of Halo, sprint is in the game, meaning those who want it removed should be offering compelling reasons for its removal. So far, that hasn’t happened.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Weapons down were “a problem before sprint”? What?
> > > > > Of course you can have issues like that without sprint, they are issues on their own due to problems in other aspects of the game design. However, and a big however, that doesn’t mean sprint isn’t more fuel on the fire.
> > > > >
> > > > > You do realise that the existense of sprint in Halo does not exempt anyone from your “burden of proof” phrase? Its existence is not proof of any claim other than “Sprint is in Halo”.
> >
> >
> > 1) It’s not up to me to judge, it’s for 343 to judge. And they seem to echo my sentiment.
> >
> > After two 343 games, there is sprint. The outcry for Halo 4 wasn’t enough apparently. Hence it being the default position. Bloom, Custom Loadouts, AAs were present in the franchise and subsequently removed when proved to be detrimental. People like custom loadouts in Reach but despised them when 343 made them, interesting. 343 kept the core of Halo Reach and spun off the bad parts. That’s the community showing them their default position (Halo Reach) was poor. Their next showing was H4, where they moved to what we have now. What remained constant? Sprint. Pro-sprinters are exempt from burden of proof because we are the defendants. Sprint is being accused of ruining Halo. If it’s really that hard for you all to understand, simply stop using burden of proof. Most anti-sprinters love to throw around pretty sound bytes and big words to make their arguments fluffed up. In reality, there is very little objective difference between “I think sprint is fun cause I kill faster” and “sprint is increasingly taking Halo away from its Arena roots by providing superfluous gimmicks to gameplay”. Oh sure, one sounds much nicer, but they are both substandard claims that can be debunked.
> >
> > I am indeed. If the largest pull against sprint is that it forces you to lose combat control for a few moments, I will gladly group that in with superfluous gimmicks like equipment and dual wielding. Both exist to augment combat while hindering you in some way. Like sprint.
> >
> > Yes, I will point to Spartan Charge as a combat possibility of sprint. The fact that sprint is a prerequisite doesn’t change anything. It’s still a combat possibility born of sprint.
> >
> > If anti-sprinters took less of a condescending tone with anyone who doesn’t approve of their views, they may find that they get more pull in how the franchise goes. That and maybe anti-sprinters need to get together and figure out what it is exactly that they want. This thread started as a “Sprint needs to be removed from Halo”. Over the last 600 pages, there have been multiple different views on where sprint should go. “Keep it in BTB Warzone, keep it in campaign, remove Spartan Charge and buff the radar and keep it, etc”.
>
>
> 1: Because a game that is one year old, using a mechanic that was nerfed not once, but twice since Halo 4. A game that is made with and for its mechanics, some tied directly to sprint. At this point in time, they seem “echo” your sentiment. Or, do you have inside info on the development of Halo 6?
>
> Myes, two games, they’re evil for trying to salvage something from a previous game. Two is not a pattern.
> You do realise loadouts, perks and somewhat ordnance still is in this game in new forms? They weren’t cut, they’re in Warzone in a slightly different form.
>
> Either way, I find it very ironic that you confidently state that there is no compelling argument, and that the proof is that sprint is in the game.
> If we pull the timer back a couple of years, ending up in Halo 4’s time frame, that exact reasoning, that exact phrasing, works perfectly with AA’s, “no compelling argument, the proof is that AA’s are in”, yet in present time AA’s are gone, how?
> So, unless you’re sitting on some information regarding Halo 6, you can’t possibly state that there isn’t a single compelling argument against sprint according to i343.
>
> Oh please do explain how any pro-sprint that comes out of the blue claiming that Sprint speeds the game up or whatever mechanical stuff that may get written off or added, is exempt from providing any proof for those claims.
>
> “Sprint is in the game”, isn’t an explanation or proof of the effect that sprint supposedly increase the game speed.
>
> Of course you do, a quick action enhancing combat, while in combat, is in the exact same leagues as a long non-combat action hindering combat actions, while apparently meant to enhance combat actions.
>
> No, Spartan Charge isn’t sprint, it is an entirely different action.
>
> I don’t care what other anti-sprinters want, I’m here for my own reasons, I’m just lucky if there are people who agree with me.

Bro the game isn’t halo anymore, do know how outraged the community of csgo would be if they let the servers go to -Yoink- and brought out a new game with sprint and ads on the ak47? You can make any argument IT DOESN’T MATTER! 95 percent of us have quit beginning with reach, we don’t like sprint in our game and will continue to be an embarrassment to MS till they realise and make 343 fix it. It’s not about if it’s fair Coz everyone can do it or if itshe balanced. Most of us played 2/3 online because we liked that it felt the way it did we didn’t want it to change, we would have played the same game with slightly better graphics forever. At some point it will go back because 30k players is a -Yoinking!- joke I feel sorry for 343 spending all that money on a flop. You are part of different community, both games have halo on the box, but halo 5 is halo in name only!!