[deleted]
> 2625759425619671;11916:
> I don’t care if you think you can counter that with irrelevant arguments about “how,” and “why,” those kills happen- bottom line is that I’ve provided multiple sources to prove my point and all you want to do is argue.
You provided a commendation and a gametype with a OHKO Plasma Pistol as your “sources”, and then your kill count with a Plasma Pistol which has gone DOWN since Halo 4. We provided the argument that those don’t at all prove your point because a commendation alone doesn’t prove weapon lethality, and a OHKO gametype doesn’t mean you can use the PP in any scenario and get a kill. Seriously. Use the normal Plasma Pistol in normal multiplayer. Get kills with it alone. Saying “you can get kills with X” is just a base statement, because you can also get kills by using explosive momentum to launch items on the map to an opponent to splatter them. Does that mean it’s a viable means to get kills? Lol no. Can you get kills with those means? “Sure”, but again, saying that alone means nothing. It’s the context as to how you get those kills.
> 2535443563848426;11922:
> hello
Hey. This is your general introduction to Waypoint. Look no further than this thread for all types of discussions that occur here. We hope you decide Waypoint is worth your time!
ok
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> > 2533274832130936;11921:
> > > 2533274890584596;11920:
> > > > 2625759425619671;11916:
> > > > Yes, you can get kills with the plasma pistol in game with was my original point.
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks for proving it once again.
> >
> >
> > ironic statement is ironic
>
>
> I don’t care if you think you can counter that with irrelevant arguments about “how,” and “why,” those kills happen-
Right? Because you know, who cares about how’s and whys right?
its completely irrelivent that the gametypes fame
mode and weapon settings were completely different
you proved you could get kills with the plasma pistol
good job…
this is the most non-sequitur logic I’ve ever encountered
you present a fundamentally flawed argument and then tell people not to consider the variables such as the how or why because the variables completely go against your point
I mean by this logic I can come into this forums and argue that warthogs in halo can fly like wasps because I went into a custom game dropped the gravity to 0 and then launched it off a man cannon
My brain hurts…I think reading this -Yoink- gave me a migraine
How does everyone think sprint effects the viability of landing kills with the plasma pistol? I don’t like it because I shoot at them and they sprint out of the way before the slow travel time on PP… I want to say projectiles but green balls seems more appropriate… hit them. It’s ruining my Halo experience. Thoughts?
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> > > > 2625759425619671;11916:
> > > > Yes, you can get kills with the plasma pistol in game with was my original point.
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks for proving it once again.
> >
> >
> > ironic statement is ironic
>
>
>
>
> Your swings are landing against air right now and all you’re proving in this shouting match is that you either a) are still using multiple accounts in this thread to flame/flamebait pro sprinters simply for being pro sprint and/or b) will argue anything and everything you deem fit (regardless of facts or logic) in order to try and counter every pro sprint point that comes up in this thread.
So first you were saying fear was that alt tails account and. Now you’re saying it’s me, so who is it
I can tell you it’s not me
Ive only ever used this account for halo, I don’t have alt accounts never have and if you don’t believe me ask any of the mods if ive been ban for having alt accounts to bypass bans
you’re just swinging wildly now
your non-sequitur logic that melds into segues which completely deviate from the original point or argument is the issue people are having in this topic
you won’t face any actual arguments head on because you don’t care about the “goes and whys”
well brother the how’s and whys are very important even if you don’t care about them so you can feel right
<mark>This post has been edited by a moderator. Please refrain from making non-constructive posts.</mark>
*Original post. Click at your own discretion.
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> > 2625759425619671;11923:
> > > 2533274832130936;11921:
> > > > 2533274890584596;11920:
> > > > > 2625759425619671;11916:
> > > > > Yes, you can get kills with the plasma pistol in game with was my original point.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for proving it once again.
>
>
> you proved you could get kills with the plasma pistol
> good job…
> I mean by this logic I can come into this forums and argue that warthogs in halo can fly like wasps because I went into a custom game dropped the gravity to 0 and then launched it off a man cannon
> My brain hurts…I think reading this -Yoink- gave me a migraine
My god it’s such a simplistic statement based upon logic and facts… The statement is “You can get kills with the plasma pistol.”
Your brain hurts because you’re trying too hard to fight logic itself. You have a migraine because you want to attack the point but can’t so you’re reverting to attacking me directly instead.
There’s no “how,” and no “why” to be considered when contemplating whether or not a plasma pistol can kill other Spartans in Halo… All that is on display now for all to see if your blind aggression at a pro sprinter in this thread (Along with Exuberant Umbra and FightingChances). That’s it.
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> 2625759425619671;11916:
> All that is on display now for all to see if your blind aggression at a pro sprinter in this thread (Along with Exuberant Umbra and FightingChances). That’s it.
Lol, it’s not blind aggression if I’m just countering your baseless, poorly written post of “you can get kills with X”. Sorry, buddy, but that isn’t how it works. Rather than calling me out in a seperate post, respond to my own with valid points seperate to the disproven ones you’ve already posted (That about 3-4 other people have called you out on too), instead of just calling me out on another baseless statement. Unless you’re not a fan of confronting your own mistakes. That goes for sprint and the Plasma Pistol.
What I find funny about this whole argument is that (SiN SHOOT2KILL) is heavily one sided on being a “PRO SPRINT DIEHARD”. He can’t even give a reason to how it improves Halo in general. All he says as a comeback is that it uses logic (which makes no sense due to the fact Halo is a fictional game) and that it helps you get to places faster, which we proved otherwise. This being the case, all he’s going to do is repeat himself using “big words” to make it seem more legit from what he’s saying. At least us, “ANTI SPRINT DIEHARDS” as you would call us, could give legitamate reasons to why and how sprint changes gameplay and mechanics on Halo and how it could be fixed by getting rid of sprint, and increasing BMS and FoV and other things which would help technically improve Halo by not putting your gun down at any time and using you’re strafe to out BR kids and get kills. Plus the maps wouldn’t be stretched anymore which could lead to smaller, better maps in general. And by the way, BtB maps didn’t need sprint back then because there were a plethera of vehicles and long range weapons to choose from once you spawned (Sandtrap, Valhalla, Rats Nest, etc.) Plus those maps, in my opinion, weren’t even that big on a 8v8. It’s not like Battlefield to where you need to Sprint for 2 minutes just to find one person (Not saying BF is bad because I enjoy the gameplay, but serving the game as an example of too big of a map). And if you bring up Warzone for sprint being needed, it is only that way because the map was built around sprint just like the rest of the maps on Halo 5. You need to come up with a way to try and persuade us on why Sprint is needed in future Halo titles, otherwise this conversation/debate doesn’t need to be discussed anymore and 343i could go ahead and remove Sprint already because I’m sick of this.
SPARTAN ABILITYS, HALO 5s CAMPAIGN, NEW DESIGN, LESS BLOODY KID FREINDLY HALO…THATS ALL BAD! BUT SPRINT…ITs OKAY, IMAGIN JUST STILL WALKING(HALO 1-ODST WAS GOOD WITHOUT SPRINT, ESPECIALLY HALO 3,) STILL…WE COULD HAVE A NO SPRINT CLASSIC PLAYLIST DOH, THAT WOULD BE FUN…BUT TAKING OUT SPRINT IN GENERAL…NAH
I didn’t think much of sprint until I began playing Halo 2 anniversary,
Honestly, I wouldn’t mind seeing sprint go goodbye in Halo 6, and that’s not to say I hate sprint. I’ve found myself avoiding using sprint in Halo 5, seeing as when I do, I get caught in firefights and the enemy has the upper hand. My main bother is map size in comparison to sprint, or the maps in general, some are awkward, with or without. For example, Asylum/Shrine/Sanctuary in Halo 2 is a fairly large map, with the pace of Halo 2, it was an awesome map to play, still one of my favorites. If this map made an appearance in Halo 5, would it need to be stretched to accommodate for sprint? I don’t think I would like it, as the stretched maps means that you would feel inclined to use sprint to get from spawn to just the middle of the map. After taking breaks from Halo 5 and playing the classics, I see how sprint really isn’t needed, and in someways it artificially makes the game feel like it’s going faster. I do really love Halo 5’s multiplayer, however. I would like to see how a classic playlist would hold up, with increased movement speed and some forged maps to go along with it.
> 2533274909445208;11935:
> What I find funny about this whole argument is that (SiN SHOOT2KILL) is heavily one sided on being a “PRO SPRINT DIEHARD”. He can’t even give a reason to how it improves Halo in general. All he says as a comeback is that it uses logic (which makes no sense due to the fact Halo is a fictional game) and that it helps you get to places faster, which we proved otherwise. This being the case, all he’s going to do is repeat himself using “big words” to make it seem more legit from what he’s saying. At least us, “ANTI SPRINT DIEHARDS” as you would call us, could give legitamate reasons to why and how sprint changes gameplay and mechanics on Halo and how it could be fixed by getting rid of sprint, and increasing BMS and FoV and other things which would help technically improve Halo by not putting your gun down at any time and using you’re strafe to out BR kids and get kills. Plus the maps wouldn’t be stretched anymore which could lead to smaller, better maps in general. And by the way, BtB maps didn’t need sprint back then because there were a plethera of vehicles and long range weapons to choose from once you spawned (Sandtrap, Valhalla, Rats Nest, etc.) Plus those maps, in my opinion, weren’t even that big on a 8v8. It’s not like Battlefield to where you need to Sprint for 2 minutes just to find one person (Not saying BF is bad because I enjoy the gameplay, but serving the game as an example of too big of a map). And if you bring up Warzone for sprint being needed, it is only that way because the map was built around sprint just like the rest of the maps on Halo 5. You need to come up with a way to try and persuade us on why Sprint is needed in future Halo titles, otherwise this conversation/debate doesn’t need to be discussed anymore and 343i could go ahead and remove Sprint already because I’m sick of this.
Bungie added sprint into the game, 343 kept it in the game, and therefore it falls to people making convincing arguments as to why sprint should be removed. Ignoring obvious red herrings like H3 population and sales (anything that can’t be definitively linked with sprint), it seems that a few key arguments remain. Those arguments being larger maps, having to put a gun down, and cat and mouse gameplay. The problem with these three arguments is that they have existed in games before sprint, and therefore, to 343i or anyone with any actual say in the franchise, these problems are not related to sprint.
As many Waypointers love to say, the burden of proof falls to those making the claim. In the 343 era of Halo, sprint is in the game, meaning those who want it removed should be offering compelling reasons for its removal. So far, that hasn’t happened.
> 2533274923428997;11937:
> For example, Asylum/Shrine/Sanctuary in Halo 2 is a fairly large map, with the pace of Halo 2, it was an awesome map to play, still one of my favorites. If this map made an appearance in Halo 5, would it need to be stretched to accommodate for sprint? I don’t think I would like it, as the stretched maps means that you would feel inclined to use sprint to get from spawn to just the middle of the map. After taking breaks from Halo 5 and playing the classics, I see how sprint really isn’t needed, and in someways it artificially makes the game feel like it’s going faster. I do really love Halo 5’s multiplayer, however. I would like to see how a classic playlist would hold up, with increased movement speed and some forged maps to go along with it.
Well, don’t forget, the stretched nature of a map adapted for sprint brings more to the table than just “using it to get to the middle of the map”. Quite a few downsides. The thing is, funnily enough, we have maps made for a classic gametype IN the Slayer playlist, but no classic playlist.
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So I couldn’t find the video so I just jumped on and did some tests myself
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For this test I calculated movement times on heretic in H3 on MCC and in Truth on H5 with and without sprint
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I measure distance/time from flag to flag running through pink 2 and from front door to front door on heretic
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and I measured distance/time from flag to flag running through pink 2 and front door to front door on truth
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > i did several tests per movement so I will take the shortest time for each test
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > HERITIC
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Flag to Flag: 15 seconds
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Front door - Front Door 6 seconds
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > TRUTH NO SPRINT
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Flag to Flag: 17 seconds
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Front door to Front door: 8 seconds
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > TRUTH WITH SPRINT
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Flag to Flag: 14 seconds
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Front door - Front door 6 seconds
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So it would see that sprinting is slightly faster than the base movement speed in H3 and does allow you to get to your destination slightly quicker
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > at least according to these tests (please feel free to do your own)
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Summary:
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > 1: You have an analog stick, choosing your pace is easy and not a trait enabled by sprint.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > 2: Indeed
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > 3: There are multiple of ways to increase the travel time of a player other than to stretch a map, obstacles.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > 4: Not everything has to, it’s a design choice.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > 5: Map design metrics, the time you want someone to cross a section is dependant on the distance and speed. If speed is a constant then you need to adjust the distance.
> > > > > > > > > > > > A varying speed between iterations but roughly the same time will mean varying distances, i.e stretching / scaling.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > .
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I’m not actually suggesting that 125%-150% of BMS is not controllable. I’m suggesting that controlling one BMS from 0-150% of the default BMS for walking in Halo is what’s uncontrollable. That’s why it’s so much better and more consistent for gameplay purposes to walk at a normal pace of 0-100% of BMS using that handy, dandy analog stick… And only pressing that sweet sprint button to go faster when it’s actually needed; depending on the situation.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > However, sprint is far more dependant on situation than BMS ever will be, due to the restrictions it has.
> > > >
> > > > There were scenarios, not many but they existed, where you’d opt for sub-optimal speed with only BMS, but they were far less than with sprint present.
> > > >
> > > > Given the choice in the same game, in the same match.
> > > > 125% BMS
> > > > 0-100 and then 125% sprint.
> > > > Who’d go for the latter?
>
>
> Sure under those conditions you made up then sprint may not be the ideal “choice”… But only if it wasn’t consistent for gameplay (meaning that some players wouldn’t have sprint and some would in the same exact game). I didn’t realize that you were suggesting that some players would be able to pick 0-125% BMS while others would then have to pick 0-100% BMS with 125% being Sprint. What I’m saying is I would rather everyone keeps the consistent pace for walking (like the way it is now for Halo 5) but have sprint be a 35-45% increase in that BMS because a 25% increase feels more like a jog than a dead sprint)
I could probably have phrased it better.
Of course consistent gameplay is the most important. The idea was to illustrate that sprint does not contribute anything beneficial over a basic BMS increase, as long as we remain in the logical realms of speeds.
Controlling your exact speed is more difficult with just a thumbstick, but we got crouching which reduce movement speed, and just controlling the thumbstick on its own is also something to master, just like aiming.
Going back to the idea of alternating your movement speed in order to be more unpredictable.
Completely logical tactic, it can create confusion which results in a dip of awereness of the opponent and we can catch them off guard. The down side is that we can’t go faster than the game allows us to, which is the speed our opponent most likely expects us to use. Thus we can only go at lower speeds, netting in a loss of map precense compared to our opponents. Is it tactically sound to sacrifice map presense over a temporary combat advantage? Is the temporary ccombat advantage better than the advantage of power positions / map presense? Or rather, how many times out of a set, is it more beneficial to risk allowing the opponents more time to set up?
Disregarding your own playstyles, how much do you think the average gamer didn’t move at full speed in previous Halos? Or rather, to their own mind and understanding of the game, at the optimal speed along with optimal path based on their tactic? How would that same question compare to high level players? Pro players?
Building on that, wanting to delay your arrival to a specific location you could stop, how many wouldn’t do that? Now of course you said earlier that complancency kills, having had the time to actually familiarize myself with that concept, it’s entirely different than what I was thought in the navy, which was that “stupidity gets you killed”. Complancency isn’t about keeping in motion, it is about feeling secure. Stopping doesn’t automatically mean you feel more secure. Just like I’m sure you’d argue that lowering your weapon and sprinting doesn’t make you feel more secure if I’d argue that you’d have to feel secure enough to actually lower your weapon in order to sprint, i.e your phrase would be more appropriate with sprint than with time delays with one BMS only. As I said though, you’ll most likely disagree with it.
I’d say an increased sprint speed would just amplify many of the things that are said to be doubtful that sprint actually causes, larger maps, more open spaces, and players being more succesful at escaping. Unless of course even more severe penalties are imposed on it, which then of course raises the question, why? Why implement a gameplay mechanic when so much effort is put into nullifying it? Is it worth the immersion, lore, realism etc? As I said earlier, I’m pretty sure there’s a reason why it is not higher than it is. I’m also pretty sure those reasons are soley reliant on gameplay.
> 2533274848599184;11938:
> Bungie added sprint into the game, 343 kept it in the game, and therefore it falls to people making convincing arguments as to why sprint should be removed. Ignoring obvious red herrings like H3 population and sales (anything that can’t be definitively linked with sprint), it seems that a few key arguments remain. Those arguments being larger maps, having to put a gun down, and cat and mouse gameplay. The problem with these three arguments is that they have existed in games before sprint, and therefore, to 343i or anyone with any actual say in the franchise, these problems are not related to sprint.
>
> As many Waypointers love to say, the burden of proof falls to those making the claim. In the 343 era of Halo, sprint is in the game, meaning those who want it removed should be offering compelling reasons for its removal. So far, that hasn’t happened.
Ah, ah, ah. While cat and mouse “existed” in earlier Halos, it was a much rarer occurrance and at that, the player never put their weapon down when running and chasing. It was a constantly engaging action, in which the “cat” had every option in their favor, since they had their opponent on the run, could chase with their weapon up, and their opponent couldn’t move faster than they could. It didn’t stop combat or slow the game’s pace down and if the person actually escaped, they did it through proper juking or map movement. In earlier Halos, you never had to contextually put your weapon down to perform a certain action or ability. And the “larger maps” weren’t designed in a way that elongated movement lanes and created dead zones due to a movement speed above your base movement speed. Large maps in older Halos were much more compact and less stretchy.
Now, in newer Halos with sprint, you have maps that need to be elongated in an artificial manner to justify sprint’s inclusion. This results in improperly longer lanes such as those on Truth as the best example. The best way to see this in general outside of Truth is just to solely walk around maps with Halo 5’s base movement speed. You can see how long lanes are compared to prior Halos. On top of that, sprint forces you to put your weapon down, taking control from you, and stopping combat from happening consistently. Something not present in older games. Finally, cat and mouse is a very big issue in newer Halos, compared to old. In older Halos, your best bet was to strongside out of a scenario IF you could. Even if you did, your opponent had full control, could follow you at your movement speed, and always had their weapon up. Now, when you run, you run faster than them, and you put your weapon down, as said before. If your opponent were to chase, they’d run at the same movement speed as you, but couldn’t attack, meaning you stop combat from two people, slowing the pace WAY down, and the person who’s running gets rewarded because they’re getting themselves out of, and avoiding a scenario they should’ve died in, which is amplified if they run to their teammates and entirely escape, which is common. This slows pacing, makes the game less punishing, and rewards the wrong people.
All of these problems are entirely related to sprint.
> 2533274848599184;11938:
> > 2533274909445208;11935:
> > What I find funny about this whole argument is that (SiN SHOOT2KILL) is heavily one sided on being a “PRO SPRINT DIEHARD”. He can’t even give a reason to how it improves Halo in general. All he says as a comeback is that it uses logic (which makes no sense due to the fact Halo is a fictional game) and that it helps you get to places faster, which we proved otherwise. This being the case, all he’s going to do is repeat himself using “big words” to make it seem more legit from what he’s saying. At least us, “ANTI SPRINT DIEHARDS” as you would call us, could give legitamate reasons to why and how sprint changes gameplay and mechanics on Halo and how it could be fixed by getting rid of sprint, and increasing BMS and FoV and other things which would help technically improve Halo by not putting your gun down at any time and using you’re strafe to out BR kids and get kills. Plus the maps wouldn’t be stretched anymore which could lead to smaller, better maps in general. And by the way, BtB maps didn’t need sprint back then because there were a plethera of vehicles and long range weapons to choose from once you spawned (Sandtrap, Valhalla, Rats Nest, etc.) Plus those maps, in my opinion, weren’t even that big on a 8v8. It’s not like Battlefield to where you need to Sprint for 2 minutes just to find one person (Not saying BF is bad because I enjoy the gameplay, but serving the game as an example of too big of a map). And if you bring up Warzone for sprint being needed, it is only that way because the map was built around sprint just like the rest of the maps on Halo 5. You need to come up with a way to try and persuade us on why Sprint is needed in future Halo titles, otherwise this conversation/debate doesn’t need to be discussed anymore and 343i could go ahead and remove Sprint already because I’m sick of this.
>
>
> Bungie added sprint into the game, 343 kept it in the game, and therefore it falls to people making convincing arguments as to why sprint should be removed. Ignoring obvious red herrings like H3 population and sales (anything that can’t be definitively linked with sprint), it seems that a few key arguments remain. Those arguments being larger maps, having to put a gun down, and cat and mouse gameplay. The problem with these three arguments is that they have existed in games before sprint, and therefore, to 343i or anyone with any actual say in the franchise, these problems are not related to sprint.
>
> As many Waypointers love to say, the burden of proof falls to those making the claim. In the 343 era of Halo, sprint is in the game, meaning those who want it removed should be offering compelling reasons for its removal. So far, that hasn’t happened.
-
Bungie added sprint as an ability opposed to 343i making it permanent (There is a big difference there). Both shouldn’t of happened but Bungie experimented with it and 343i accepted it as a gameplay changer and mechanic.
-
How are you going to say these are not problems to sprint. Maps are built around sprint and putting the gun down affects gameplay which involves sprint.
-
“compelling reasons for its removal”? Throughout this whole thread, anti-sprinters have said everything they need to say about removing sprint. We gave our reasons to how removing sprint improves Halo. On the other hand, Pro sprinters can’t seem to find a real reason to how Sprint actually improves Halo.
-
And by the way, “343 era of Halo”? We are in that era and the only way to make/prevent any changes that need to be made is by providing feedback. So don’t automatically assume the discussion is over by thinking 343i is just going to keep making the same mistake by keeping sprint in Halo. You never know what could happen and that is why we are discussing all of the possibilities in this thread.
-
and you want to hear the best part since you want to jump to conclusion so fast? Their are about 600 pages on this one thread so clearly there is an issue involving sprint in Halo.
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