> 2625759425619671;11809:
> 1) Agreed however to add to this it appears to me that the range of speed between the walking pace and sprinting pace is too wide of a gap to try and force into one BMS.
It isn’t a wide delta at all, especially after the beta’s nerf to sprint. It used to be 125% movement speed in beta. Much less than that, now.
[deleted]
> 2533274832130936;11822:
> > 2625759425619671;11820:
> > > 2533274832130936;11819:
> > > > 2625759425619671;11816:
> > > > > 2533274808669104;11810:
> > > > > > 2625759425619671;11809:
> > > > > > > 2533274832130936;11808:
> > > > > > > So I couldn’t find the video so I just jumped on and did some tests myself
> > > > > > > For this test I calculated movement times on heretic in H3 on MCC and in Truth on H5 with and without sprint
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I measure distance/time from flag to flag running through pink 2 and from front door to front door on heretic
> > > > > > > and I measured distance/time from flag to flag running through pink 2 and front door to front door on truth
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > i did several tests per movement so I will take the shortest time for each test
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > HERITIC
> > > > > > > -Flag to Flag: 15 seconds
> > > > > > > -Front door - Front Door 6 seconds
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > TRUTH NO SPRINT
> > > > > > > -Flag to Flag: 17 seconds
> > > > > > > -Front door to Front door: 8 seconds
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > TRUTH WITH SPRINT
> > > > > > > -Flag to Flag: 14 seconds
> > > > > > > -Front door - Front door 6 seconds
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So it would see that sprinting is slightly faster than the base movement speed in H3 and does allow you to get to your destination slightly quicker
> > > > > > > at least according to these tests (please feel free to do your own)
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hmm… This is pretty interesting and I feel it will add something of value to this discussion. I think I will hop on and try to do some of these tests myself tonight. I’d like to see how long it takes to walk around points to put Exuberant Umbra’s “map widening,” theory in Halo 5 to the test as well using maps that were rebuilt from older Halo games.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Im genuinely glad you will consider this. Many of us say sprint is an illusion due to the travel times in remakes being nearly identical, I hope you can recognize this.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > .
> >
> >
> > That’s not the premise of my argument. There were many other points that I’ve brought up to support keeping sprint- you just seem to want to focus on the mechanical aspect.
> >
> > That was the mechanical reason that I provided to you for this discussion because I don’t feel like continuing to engage with you on my pro sprint opinions regarding why sprint is beneficial for Halo.
> >
> > Many other reasons that I’ve also provided in the past for keeping sprint in Halo were: Immersion, Lore, Predictive Combat, Player Expectations, Give the majority of fans what they want in Halo, and Past Precedence. Those aren’t even all the points that I’ve argued when advocating for sprint but those are where I began in this thread and those are additional reasons other than player choice between movement speeds. I just choose not to get into a bickering contest with you about those points any further. Thank you for understanding that.
>
>
> 3) And in the past I’ve said that immersion lore predictive combat player and player expectations are not legitimate reasons
> also if the “majority” of players want sprint then where the hell is everyone, maybe the majority of the 20,000 people still playing want sprint but what about the millions that left
>
> 2) I would suggest that a -1/2 second difference in traveling time Is negligible and buffing base movement speed to 110% or even 115% would more than make up for the 1/2 second difference
>
> 1) anyway we aren’t going to see eye to eye on this so we will call our part of the conversation over
That’s fine, at least if you can concede that pro sprinters do have more points to support keeping sprint in Halo than “I want sprint.” You don’t have to agree with those points (and I understand that you do not) but that doesn’t mean that multiple other reasons for keeping sprint in Halo haven’t been provided in this thread.
On a smaller scale then you’re probably right… The difference could be negligible on a map like Midship/Heretic/Truth. However on larger maps like Apex 7, Stormbreak, ARC, Sanctum, Noctus, and Darkstar that argument wouldn’t hold up as well because there are so many greater distances to cover. I do not believe that “shrinking,” maps in Halo 6 to accommodate for anti sprinters is an acceptable method to try and deal with that issue either. I’ve suggested split settings as a compromise so many times. Not only would this cater to as many fans as possible in Halo 6, but it’s important to ensure that sprint remains in larger maps (don’t try to limit map designers at 343i based upon your desire to remove one gameplay mechanic); but there should be Classic and some Competitive playlists without sprint so that the next Halo title can appeal to as many fans as possible. That would also enable 343i with an effective method to collect and analyze swaths of data to determine whether or not sprint really is more popular amongst fans when they’re truly given the choice of whether or not they want to have sprint in Halo.
I do understand that we are not going to agree on everything but you have told me before that you want to focus chiefly on mechanical elements/gameplay in this debate (which I can respect that).
> 2625759425619671;11809:
> 2) However on larger maps like Apex 7, Stormbreak, ARC, Sanctum, Noctus, and Darkstar that argument wouldn’t hold up as well because there is so many greater distances to cover.
Which are caused by sprint and wouldn’t be there if the game wasn’t designed all around it, but, yunno.
> 2625759425619671;11823:
> > 2533274795123910;11821:
> > > 2625759425619671;11816:
> > > > 2533274808669104;11810:
> > > > > 2625759425619671;11809:
> > > > > > 2533274832130936;11808:
> > > > > > So I couldn’t find the video so I just jumped on and did some tests myself
> > > > > > For this test I calculated movement times on heretic in H3 on MCC and in Truth on H5 with and without sprint
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I measure distance/time from flag to flag running through pink 2 and from front door to front door on heretic
> > > > > > and I measured distance/time from flag to flag running through pink 2 and front door to front door on truth
> > > > > >
> > > > > > i did several tests per movement so I will take the shortest time for each test
> > > > > >
> > > > > > HERITIC
> > > > > > -Flag to Flag: 15 seconds
> > > > > > -Front door - Front Door 6 seconds
> > > > > >
> > > > > > TRUTH NO SPRINT
> > > > > > -Flag to Flag: 17 seconds
> > > > > > -Front door to Front door: 8 seconds
> > > > > >
> > > > > > TRUTH WITH SPRINT
> > > > > > -Flag to Flag: 14 seconds
> > > > > > -Front door - Front door 6 seconds
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So it would see that sprinting is slightly faster than the base movement speed in H3 and does allow you to get to your destination slightly quicker
> > > > > > at least according to these tests (please feel free to do your own)
> > >
> > >
> > > Summary:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 1: You have an analog stick, choosing your pace is easy and not a trait enabled by sprint.
> >
> > 2: Indeed
> >
> > 3: There are multiple of ways to increase the travel time of a player other than to stretch a map, obstacles.
> >
> > 4: Not everything has to, it’s a design choice.
> >
> > 5: Map design metrics, the time you want someone to cross a section is dependant on the distance and speed. If speed is a constant then you need to adjust the distance.
> > A varying speed between iterations but roughly the same time will mean varying distances, i.e stretching / scaling.
>
>
> I do appreciate your grounded and open minded approach to this debate even when we don’t always agree.
>
> 1) Agreed however to add to this it appears to me that the range of speed between the walking pace and sprinting pace is too wide of a gap to try and force into one BMS.
>
> 3) Indeed
>
> 4) Indeed
>
> 5) Interesting points and I see what you mean.
Sure.
1: Depending on the setup of the analog stick value measurement it can be anything from 4 bits to 8, in a logical approach. 4 bits would enable 16 steps, 8,bits would enable 256 steps.
The original Duke controller’s varistors went from 0 - 3k Ohms, and in resting pose it was 1,5k Ohm. If I’m not mistaken. How they however measuered it, I never checked.
Either way, With one byte of information, the analog stick can go from -100% to 100%, one byte contains 256 steps. One step being less than a percentage.
Or, with the version I can come up with using the smallest amount of values one can get, 16. First four bits for one direction and four last bits for the other direction, you’re looking at 6,25% steps.
Sprint doesn’t offer you a huge speed boost, in Halo 4 it was said to be 30% higher than BMS, If we’re to believe the below 25% though, which could be true due to the 8 seconds sprint and 10 seconds walking measurements, then the following.
You’re not looking at a very large angular tilt difference in the thumbstick to get roughly the same difference as BMS vs Sprint.
So no, mechanically / technically, it’s not a large gap.
> 2533274795123910;11828:
> > 2625759425619671;11823:
> > > 2533274795123910;11821:
> > > > 2625759425619671;11816:
> > > > > 2533274808669104;11810:
> > > > > > 2625759425619671;11809:
> > > > > > > 2533274832130936;11808:
> > > > > > > So I couldn’t find the video so I just jumped on and did some tests myself
> > > > > > > For this test I calculated movement times on heretic in H3 on MCC and in Truth on H5 with and without sprint
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I measure distance/time from flag to flag running through pink 2 and from front door to front door on heretic
> > > > > > > and I measured distance/time from flag to flag running through pink 2 and front door to front door on truth
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > i did several tests per movement so I will take the shortest time for each test
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > HERITIC
> > > > > > > -Flag to Flag: 15 seconds
> > > > > > > -Front door - Front Door 6 seconds
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > TRUTH NO SPRINT
> > > > > > > -Flag to Flag: 17 seconds
> > > > > > > -Front door to Front door: 8 seconds
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > TRUTH WITH SPRINT
> > > > > > > -Flag to Flag: 14 seconds
> > > > > > > -Front door - Front door 6 seconds
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So it would see that sprinting is slightly faster than the base movement speed in H3 and does allow you to get to your destination slightly quicker
> > > > > > > at least according to these tests (please feel free to do your own)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Summary:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > 1: You have an analog stick, choosing your pace is easy and not a trait enabled by sprint.
> > >
> > > 2: Indeed
> > >
> > > 3: There are multiple of ways to increase the travel time of a player other than to stretch a map, obstacles.
> > >
> > > 4: Not everything has to, it’s a design choice.
> > >
> > > 5: Map design metrics, the time you want someone to cross a section is dependant on the distance and speed. If speed is a constant then you need to adjust the distance.
> > > A varying speed between iterations but roughly the same time will mean varying distances, i.e stretching / scaling.
> >
> >
> > I do appreciate your grounded and open minded approach to this debate even when we don’t always agree.
> >
> > 1) Agreed however to add to this it appears to me that the range of speed between the walking pace and sprinting pace is too wide of a gap to try and force into one BMS.
> >
> > 3) Indeed
> >
> > 4) Indeed
> >
> > 5) Interesting points and I see what you mean.
>
>
> Sure.
>
> 1: Depending on the setup of the analog stick value measurement it can be anything from 4 bits to 8, in a logical approach. 4 bits would enable 16 steps, 8,bits would enable 256 steps.
>
> The original Duke controller’s varistors went from 0 - 3k Ohms, and in resting pose it was 1,5k Ohm. If I’m not mistaken. How they however measuered it, I never checked.
>
> Either way, With one byte of information, the analog stick can go from -100% to 100%, one byte contains 256 steps. One step being less than a percentage.
> Or, with the version I can come up with using the smallest amount of values one can get, 16. First four bits for one direction and four last bits for the other direction, you’re looking at 6,25% steps.
>
> Sprint doesn’t offer you a huge speed boost, in Halo 4 it was said to be 30% higher than BMS, If we’re to believe the below 25% though, which could be true due to the 10 seconds sprint and 8 seconds walking measurements, then the following.
>
> You’re not looking at a very large angular tilt difference in the thumbstick to get roughly the same difference as BMS vs Sprint.
> So no, mechanically / technically, it’s not a large gap.
I have actually considered that- the issue isn’t how many bytes of variation the analog stick is capable of measuring between the amount of force that is applied to it. The issue is what the player is capable of controlling between pressing the stick when choosing between walking and running.
The range of speed is too great to accurately control both walking and a dead sprint with the same movement stick. It’s not an equipment capability issue as to whether or not the controller can make this happen- rather it’s a player issue as to whether or not it would even be practical for game play purposes. Halo CE, 2, and 3 didn’t measure close to such speeds for walking because it’s like increasing the sensitivity- For instance, any player could max out their sensitivity to 10 and be capable of the quickest possible reflexes that the aiming analog stick has to offer. But it’s simply not practical just because it’s possible because it’s too hard to control for most players.
Just like BMS could be adjusted in those earlier Halo titles… But Bungie wouldn’t have tried to make the player control both walking and sprinting with the same stick under one BMS even though it was possible. Same issues would resurface if 343i tried to make one stick capable of giving the player the wider range to both walk and even sprint with one BMS using that same stick.
Also it’s not like walking and sprinting measure up that closely over larger distances. That ~2 second variation between walking and sprinting came from a distance of roughly 10-15 meters or so. As the distance increases, so does the deviation between walking and sprinting. For instance, at ~20 meters it becomes ~4 second difference, than ~6 second difference at ~30 meters and so on and so forth. Point is that the deviation becomes a significant problem; particularly in midsized to larger maps.
> 2625759425619671;11809:
> The range of speed is too great to accurately control both walking and a dead sprint with the same movement stick. It’s not an equipment capability issue as to whether or not the controller can make this happen- its a player issue as to whether or not it would even be practical for game play purposes.
Look at every single Halo leading up to 2009, bar Wars. It’s unarguably practical. The range isn’t too great, as four Halos showed. Well, actually, every single Halo can show this, but just isn’t given the opportunity to.
> 2533274795123910;11828:
> Sprint doesn’t offer you a huge speed boost, in Halo 4 it was said to be 30% higher than BMS, If we’re to believe the below 25% though, which could be true due to the 8 seconds sprint and 10 seconds walking measurements, then the following.
If I’m not mistaken, it was 25% higher, actually.
I feel if Halo 6 were to get rid of sprint in multiplayer, it would give a really good sense of nostalgia as well. That’s really what the community needs to make a recovery. Like imagine a successful Halo 3: Anniversary next year and then followed by a sprintless Halo 6 the year after with that classic Halo feel. I would be happy 
> 2533274909445208;11832:
> I feel if Halo 6 were to get rid of sprint in multiplayer, it would give a really good sense of nostalgia as well. That’s really what the community needs to make a recovery. Like imagine a successful Halo 3: Anniversary next year and then followed by a sprintless Halo 6 the year after with that classic Halo feel. I would be happy
I honestly don’t want 343 near anything to do with H3
> 2533274832130936;11833:
> > 2533274909445208;11832:
> > I feel if Halo 6 were to get rid of sprint in multiplayer, it would give a really good sense of nostalgia as well. That’s really what the community needs to make a recovery. Like imagine a successful Halo 3: Anniversary next year and then followed by a sprintless Halo 6 the year after with that classic Halo feel. I would be happy
>
>
> I honestly don’t want 343 near anything to do with H3
Man can I say that I completely agree with that… 
> 2533274832130936;11833:
> > 2533274909445208;11832:
> > I feel if Halo 6 were to get rid of sprint in multiplayer, it would give a really good sense of nostalgia as well. That’s really what the community needs to make a recovery. Like imagine a successful Halo 3: Anniversary next year and then followed by a sprintless Halo 6 the year after with that classic Halo feel. I would be happy
>
>
> I honestly don’t want 343 near anything to do with H3
I don’t either but I would rather see H3A happen than not happen. The game is my childhood and even if it doesn’t turn out as good (which it probably wouldn’t), I at least know 343i made an attempt at it. To be honest, if I don’t see a H3A happen next year, I would be really disappointed 
But, I know where you are coming from trust me. 343i is not the company to trust with such a golden game.
> 2533274832130936;11833:
> I honestly don’t want 343 near anything to do with H3
343i wouldn’t handle the remaster/remake. Saber Interactive/Blur would.
> 2533274886529017;11836:
> > 2533274832130936;11833:
> > I honestly don’t want 343 near anything to do with H3
>
>
> 343i wouldn’t handle the remaster/remake. Saber Interactive/Blur would.
And considering the state of H3 in the MCC that doesn’t give me much confidence either
Sprint should stay, It’s one of those things that make 343 Halo games unique
> 2535463412682697;11838:
> Sprint should stay, It’s one of those things that make 343 Halo games unique
lol
I’m sorry, you are entitled to you’re own opinion but I literally lol’d
> 2533274832130936;11837:
> > 2533274886529017;11836:
> > > 2533274832130936;11833:
> > > I honestly don’t want 343 near anything to do with H3
> >
> >
> > 343i wouldn’t handle the remaster/remake. Saber Interactive/Blur would.
>
>
> And considering the state of H3 in the MCC that doesn’t give me much confidence either
Hmm? Halo 3’s one of the better working games, tbh, alongside Halo 4. The games with the biggest issues (now) are CE and arguably Halo 2. CE’s just downright terrible in some cases and Halo 2’s inconsistent.
> 2533274909445208;11839:
> > 2535463412682697;11838:
> > Sprint should stay, It’s one of those things that make 343 Halo games unique
>
>
> lol
>
> I’m sorry, you are entitled to you’re own opinion but I literally lol’d
But honestly, sprint started in 343 games(Aside from Reach) I know lot’s of people hate sprint and want it gone, and I don’t believe in the solution, “just Don’t sprint if you hate it so much” Or whatever that is, remember, the Reach storyline takes place BEFORE Halo CE and it had sprint, and in Halo 6 I would honestly be completely fine with a “Reach like” sprint
> 2533274886529017;11840:
> > 2533274832130936;11837:
> > > 2533274886529017;11836:
> > > > 2533274832130936;11833:
> > > > I honestly don’t want 343 near anything to do with H3
> > >
> > >
> > > 343i wouldn’t handle the remaster/remake. Saber Interactive/Blur would.
> >
> >
> > And considering the state of H3 in the MCC that doesn’t give me much confidence either
>
>
> Hmm? Halo 3’s one of the better working games, tbh, alongside Halo 4. The games with the biggest issues (now) are CE and arguably Halo 2. CE’s just downright terrible in some cases and Halo 2’s inconsistent.
I could never find a game in H3 (or any other for that matter) and the 60fps didn’t feel quite right to me
i mean it wasn’t CE/H2 bad port wise considering those were direct halo PC/halo 2 vista ports
It’s not just that tho, it’s the decisions 343 have made with the past halos that concern me
I can’t be the only one who’s terrified that they will try to inject a microtransaction system into it
honestly, maybe I’m being overly cynical
> 2535464014668339;11699:
> > 2533274866906624;11564:
> > > 2535464014668339;11497:
> > > Idgaf bout sprint keep or nah idc. I’m pissed though because the recent halos (4-5) are trash. They just aren’t like the originals which were insanely amazing to play, still playing campaigns over and over. Reach and ODST had thrilling campaigns but 4 and 5 just don’t have it. I hope that they in the future do something similar to reach or ODST like a marine game or possibly one on the covenant. Different than just the master chief over and over again. If we had a new game based on something that’s not really focused on in halo, a great soundtrack and pvp then I would kill for it. Y’all feel me?
> >
> >
> > I don’t like characters like Palmer and Locke, who basically have no respect for Chief who has saved the human race multiple times already. Either give us a solid campaign focused on Chief like Halo CE, or give us ODST 2. Maybe even a marine campaign.
>
>
> That’s what I’m thinking too. They also need to have a multiplayer in it. Halo 5 they messed that up. It only 1 player. ODST 2 would be sick
Introducing Locke would’ve been better in a spinoff title. I would rather have a Chief-focused campaign. Also, yes I would like ODST 2. Maybe follow Buck’s path up to becoming a spartan. Maybe Buck was about to die, but they saved him by making him a spartan.