The sprint discussion thread

Games Halo 5: Guardians
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> > > > > > > > Right so I want to actually go through sin’s arguments here
> > > > > > > > point by point
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > he said that his reasons for liking them were immersion, lord, predictive combat and player expectations
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Now the only thing that even remotely resembles a gameplay mechanic would be predictive combat, which halo 5 doesn’t have partly because of sprint
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > there’s no way to predict when an enemy is sprinting and when they aren’t so that doesn’t lend to the argument
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > moving on to the post he linked
> > > > > > > > it reads the following
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > “I think sprint is important part of the game now and should stay. I dont know why it really matters in campaign. It allows you to escape easier for one so i dont know why you would want it removed. Kinda why its essential in the game now. Being able to get around faster and having the choice of sprinting around and running around factor a ton into if you run into a fight. For example most time if im running around a corner and a guy is right in my face and he was not sprinting i will likely die since you cant fire from hip while running. So it matters in a game-play what you choose to do. Think it should stay.”
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > So to recap this we’ve got moving around faster, escape easier and sprinting around
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > remind me how this isn’t a “you move faster” argument
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > As for josh Holmes (you know the guy that lied about data centres)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > As a Spartan, it makes sense that you can push yourself in a situation where survival is imperative. It’s an action that feels natural in the context of a firefight. It’s the extra gear that a Spartan draws upon if they focus purely on mobility and speed.
> > > > > > > > It creates opportunities and meaningful choices on offense and defense. On offense you can commit to an aggressive push or flank at a slight cost to weapon readiness. On defense, you can try for a rapid retreat but it carries the trade-off of stalling your shield recharge. Should you be able to escape from a situation where you are over-matched or have lost the upper hand? Yes, in a skillful manner (using mobility and spatial awareness to your advantage) and so long as your opponent has opportunity to counter using their own skills. The key for us has been to balance the potential escapability of sprint with mechanics like shield recharge and sprint ramp-up, while maintaining a sprint mechanic that feels good. This is something that we will continue to focus on post-beta as this careful balance is so important.
> > > > > > > > Sprint is also an action that the vast majority of Halo players expect to be able to utilize in both an offensive and defensive context. I know that this community does not feel that way (or likely believes that statement to be accurate), but the larger Halo community is very diverse and we are building a game for an audience with many different perspectives represented amongst them. Within that larger audience, most people expect to be able to sprint. Particularly as this is the third Halo game to feature the mechanic.
> > > > > > > > Another important consideration for us is to keep the core play experience as consistent as possible between Campaign, Arena, and the larger MP experiences that we are building. We feel that sprint, done right, works well in Arena. I know that’s a point of significant contention amongst this community. Sprint also works tremendously well in the context of those other experiences that I mentioned. When a player crosses over from Campaign to Arena, or from Arena to big team MP, we want the mechanics to translate across consistently. It’s jarring to become accustomed to a core mechanic only to have it disappear, or vice versa. That’s something that we want to avoid.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > All of these points were were present and better implemented in H3 without the use of sprint and amounts to nothing more than the lead dev trying to justify (poorly) sprints inclusion
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So you’re saying that all those individual points that you’ve just argued go beyond “I like having sprint in Halo,”?? That’s why I linked them in the first place, you tried to claim you had yet to see any other arguments about sprint in this thread and yet you just took an enormous post to go back through and respond to a few of Josh Holmes’ pro sprint points and a few of mine… I’ve already answered those points with counter after counter so I certainly disagree with your counters here but the point in linking them wasn’t to try and reopen the discussion about what’s already been debated with the same old points… The point in linking those pro sprint points is exactly what you’ve just proven- there have indeed been multiple points to support keeping sprint in Halo beyond simply stating “I like sprint.”
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > …what counter???
> > > > > > i still don’t see a counter here
> > > > > > your points were immersion, lore predictive combat and player expectation
> > > > > >
> > > > > > these are not counters to gameplay mechanic based arguments against sprint…
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Part of the draw of sprint, and something Sin has mentioned several times throughout this thread, is the variety that the.different movement speeds give you, and how it is a tactical decision to use sprint vs not use it. That can’t be achieved nearly as profoundly with solely a single,
> > > > > increased BMS, other than crouching, which is a 3rd movement speed that has overall been ignored on this thread.
> > > > >
> > > > > Though doI suppose you can not push down on the thumb stick at full speed, but still not quite the same effect.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > How are varying movement speeds outside of crouch beneficial to gameplay?
> > > >
> > > > spriting isnt tactical
> > > > its sole purpose is to get you somewhere faster…
> > >
> > >
> > > Look bud, you’re the one who a) stated that these pro sprint opinions haven’t been made in this thread (they have) and b) tried to lump all pro sprint points into meaning “I like sprint,” which is also untrue. Don’t freak out on people for providing you with reasons that you’re asking to see in this thread either.
> >
> >
> > Didn’t freak out, I simply countered his post with actual facts pertaining to the effect sprint has on the game
> >
> > ive seen lots of pro sprint opinions thrown around, sadly none of them have any actual basis as to why sprint improves halo which is actually what I asked for
>
>
> I disagree, I believe that many of the dozens upon dozens of reasons given in this thread have a strong basis as to why sprint improves Halo.
>
> Plus you never asked to get into a bickering contest with me over each of those posts either, which is what I’m trying to avoid.
>
> You asked, and this is a direct quote from you earlier, “Could you please list those tons and tons of reasons because I haven’t seen any of them,” and I simply linked those points to show you that they’ve been made in this thread… That’s it- not to open arguments with you about them that have already been going on for a long time.

Why are you here if you’re unwilling to discuss sprint?

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> > > > > > > Right so I want to actually go through sin’s arguments here
> > > > > > > point by point
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > he said that his reasons for liking them were immersion, lord, predictive combat and player expectations
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Now the only thing that even remotely resembles a gameplay mechanic would be predictive combat, which halo 5 doesn’t have partly because of sprint
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > there’s no way to predict when an enemy is sprinting and when they aren’t so that doesn’t lend to the argument
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > moving on to the post he linked
> > > > > > > it reads the following
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > “I think sprint is important part of the game now and should stay. I dont know why it really matters in campaign. It allows you to escape easier for one so i dont know why you would want it removed. Kinda why its essential in the game now. Being able to get around faster and having the choice of sprinting around and running around factor a ton into if you run into a fight. For example most time if im running around a corner and a guy is right in my face and he was not sprinting i will likely die since you cant fire from hip while running. So it matters in a game-play what you choose to do. Think it should stay.”
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So to recap this we’ve got moving around faster, escape easier and sprinting around
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > remind me how this isn’t a “you move faster” argument
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > As for josh Holmes (you know the guy that lied about data centres)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > As a Spartan, it makes sense that you can push yourself in a situation where survival is imperative. It’s an action that feels natural in the context of a firefight. It’s the extra gear that a Spartan draws upon if they focus purely on mobility and speed.
> > > > > > > It creates opportunities and meaningful choices on offense and defense. On offense you can commit to an aggressive push or flank at a slight cost to weapon readiness. On defense, you can try for a rapid retreat but it carries the trade-off of stalling your shield recharge. Should you be able to escape from a situation where you are over-matched or have lost the upper hand? Yes, in a skillful manner (using mobility and spatial awareness to your advantage) and so long as your opponent has opportunity to counter using their own skills. The key for us has been to balance the potential escapability of sprint with mechanics like shield recharge and sprint ramp-up, while maintaining a sprint mechanic that feels good. This is something that we will continue to focus on post-beta as this careful balance is so important.
> > > > > > > Sprint is also an action that the vast majority of Halo players expect to be able to utilize in both an offensive and defensive context. I know that this community does not feel that way (or likely believes that statement to be accurate), but the larger Halo community is very diverse and we are building a game for an audience with many different perspectives represented amongst them. Within that larger audience, most people expect to be able to sprint. Particularly as this is the third Halo game to feature the mechanic.
> > > > > > > Another important consideration for us is to keep the core play experience as consistent as possible between Campaign, Arena, and the larger MP experiences that we are building. We feel that sprint, done right, works well in Arena. I know that’s a point of significant contention amongst this community. Sprint also works tremendously well in the context of those other experiences that I mentioned. When a player crosses over from Campaign to Arena, or from Arena to big team MP, we want the mechanics to translate across consistently. It’s jarring to become accustomed to a core mechanic only to have it disappear, or vice versa. That’s something that we want to avoid.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > All of these points were were present and better implemented in H3 without the use of sprint and amounts to nothing more than the lead dev trying to justify (poorly) sprints inclusion
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So you’re saying that all those individual points that you’ve just argued go beyond “I like having sprint in Halo,”?? That’s why I linked them in the first place, you tried to claim you had yet to see any other arguments about sprint in this thread and yet you just took an enormous post to go back through and respond to a few of Josh Holmes’ pro sprint points and a few of mine… I’ve already answered those points with counter after counter so I certainly disagree with your counters here but the point in linking them wasn’t to try and reopen the discussion about what’s already been debated with the same old points… The point in linking those pro sprint points is exactly what you’ve just proven- there have indeed been multiple points to support keeping sprint in Halo beyond simply stating “I like sprint.”
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > …what counter???
> > > > > i still don’t see a counter here
> > > > > your points were immersion, lore predictive combat and player expectation
> > > > >
> > > > > these are not counters to gameplay mechanic based arguments against sprint…
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Part of the draw of sprint, and something Sin has mentioned several times throughout this thread, is the variety that the.different movement speeds give you, and how it is a tactical decision to use sprint vs not use it. That can’t be achieved nearly as profoundly with solely a single,
> > > > increased BMS, other than crouching, which is a 3rd movement speed that has overall been ignored on this thread.
> > > >
> > > > Though doI suppose you can not push down on the thumb stick at full speed, but still not quite the same effect.
> > >
> > >
> > > How are varying movement speeds outside of crouch beneficial to gameplay?
> > >
> > > if there was no sprint the maps wouldn’t be blown out which means no mass sections of dead space to traverse through which means less need for massive amounts of bullet magnetism which means less need for precision weapons having shorter RRRs…
> > >
> > > spriting isnt tactical
> > > its sole purpose is to get you somewhere faster…
> >
> >
> > Look bud, you’re the one who a) stated that these pro sprint opinions haven’t been made in this thread (they have) and b) tried to lump all pro sprint points into meaning “I like sprint,” which is also untrue. Don’t freak out on people for providing you with reasons that you’re asking to see in this thread either.
>
>
> Didn’t freak out, I simply countered his post with actual facts pertaining to the effect sprint has on the game
> I’ve given actual gameplay reasons as to why sprint hurts halos gameplay and design
>
> I never said pro sprint opinions haven’t been made on this thread
> ive seen lots of pro sprint opinions thrown around, sadly none of them have any actual basis as to why sprint improves halo which is actually what I asked for

  1. Are you not ‘drawn’ do certain aspects of Halo? Your counter to that statement made no sense whatsoever.
  2. You have already made your mind up, as have most people on this thread. Nothing you say, no matter how intelligent you think it may be, will make Sin change his stance on sprint, and vice versa. So of course none of ‘pro sprint opinions’ will affect you, and you will disregard them, because you have already decided every argument for sprint is worthless, and so therefore, that is how they will all sound to you.

The difference between you, Zr0Fear, and Exuberant Umbra, from people like Naqser (anti-sprint) and Sin (pro-sprint), is you just try to shut other people down without truly trying to see things from theirperspective. Naqser and Sin both try to berespectful, see things from from the other side, concede (factual) points that they are gotten on or agree with, and encourage honest, true debate and discussion, not this mindless ‘I’m smarter than you and my opinion, or subjective viewpoint is better than yours!’

11706

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> > 2533274832130936;11679:
> > > 2625759425619671;11674:
> > > > 2533274832130936;11671:
> > > > Right so I want to actually go through sin’s arguments here
> > > > point by point
> > > >
> > > > he said that his reasons for liking them were immersion, lord, predictive combat and player expectations
> > > >
> > > > Now the only thing that even remotely resembles a gameplay mechanic would be predictive combat, which halo 5 doesn’t have partly because of sprint
> > > >
> > > > there’s no way to predict when an enemy is sprinting and when they aren’t so that doesn’t lend to the argument
> > > >
> > > > moving on to the post he linked
> > > > it reads the following
> > > >
> > > > “I think sprint is important part of the game now and should stay. I dont know why it really matters in campaign. It allows you to escape easier for one so i dont know why you would want it removed. Kinda why its essential in the game now. Being able to get around faster and having the choice of sprinting around and running around factor a ton into if you run into a fight. For example most time if im running around a corner and a guy is right in my face and he was not sprinting i will likely die since you cant fire from hip while running. So it matters in a game-play what you choose to do. Think it should stay.”
> > > >
> > > > So to recap this we’ve got moving around faster, escape easier and sprinting around
> > > >
> > > > remind me how this isn’t a “you move faster” argument
> > > >
> > > > As for josh Holmes (you know the guy that lied about data centres)
> > > >
> > > > As a Spartan, it makes sense that you can push yourself in a situation where survival is imperative. It’s an action that feels natural in the context of a firefight. It’s the extra gear that a Spartan draws upon if they focus purely on mobility and speed.
> > > > It creates opportunities and meaningful choices on offense and defense. On offense you can commit to an aggressive push or flank at a slight cost to weapon readiness. On defense, you can try for a rapid retreat but it carries the trade-off of stalling your shield recharge. Should you be able to escape from a situation where you are over-matched or have lost the upper hand? Yes, in a skillful manner (using mobility and spatial awareness to your advantage) and so long as your opponent has opportunity to counter using their own skills. The key for us has been to balance the potential escapability of sprint with mechanics like shield recharge and sprint ramp-up, while maintaining a sprint mechanic that feels good. This is something that we will continue to focus on post-beta as this careful balance is so important.
> > > > Sprint is also an action that the vast majority of Halo players expect to be able to utilize in both an offensive and defensive context. I know that this community does not feel that way (or likely believes that statement to be accurate), but the larger Halo community is very diverse and we are building a game for an audience with many different perspectives represented amongst them. Within that larger audience, most people expect to be able to sprint. Particularly as this is the third Halo game to feature the mechanic.
> > > > Another important consideration for us is to keep the core play experience as consistent as possible between Campaign, Arena, and the larger MP experiences that we are building. We feel that sprint, done right, works well in Arena. I know that’s a point of significant contention amongst this community. Sprint also works tremendously well in the context of those other experiences that I mentioned. When a player crosses over from Campaign to Arena, or from Arena to big team MP, we want the mechanics to translate across consistently. It’s jarring to become accustomed to a core mechanic only to have it disappear, or vice versa. That’s something that we want to avoid.
> > > >
> > > > All of these points were were present and better implemented in H3 without the use of sprint and amounts to nothing more than the lead dev trying to justify (poorly) sprints inclusion
> > >
> > >
> > > So you’re saying that all those individual points that you’ve just argued go beyond “I like having sprint in Halo,”?? That’s why I linked them in the first place, you tried to claim you had yet to see any other arguments about sprint in this thread and yet you just took an enormous post to go back through and respond to a few of Josh Holmes’ pro sprint points and a few of mine… I’ve already answered those points with counter after counter so I certainly disagree with your counters here but the point in linking them wasn’t to try and reopen the discussion about what’s already been debated with the same old points… The point in linking those pro sprint points is exactly what you’ve just proven- there have indeed been multiple points to support keeping sprint in Halo beyond simply stating “I like sprint.”
> >
> >
> > …what counter???
> > i still don’t see a counter here
> > your points were immersion, lore predictive combat and player expectation
> >
> > these are not counters to gameplay mechanic based arguments against sprint…
> >
> > the post you linked literally said “escape easier move faster”
> > that was the base of the “counter”
> >
> > and josh holmes did not cite game play mechanics as his reasons to include it
> > actually read his justifications for sprint
> > all of the things he mentioned are possible in H3 and done better I might add
> >
> > so again I am asking for actual gameplay mechanic based arguments as to why sprint enriches halo and makes it a better experience that doesn’t include personal preference and “you move faster” because this is literally all you’ve said
> >
> > also and one more time
> >
> > eliminate sprint increase FOV and increase base movement speed to 110-115%
> >
> > if you do this both both pro and anti sprinters should in theory be happy
>
>
> Part of the draw of sprint, and something Sin has mentioned several times throughout this thread, is the variety that the.different movement speeds give you, and how it is a tactical decision to use sprint vs not use it. That can’t be achieved nearly as profoundly with solely a single,
> increased BMS, other than crouching, which is a 3rd movement speed that has overall been ignored on this thread.
>
> Though doI suppose you can not push down on the thumb stick at full speed, but still not quite the same effect.

So how does the BMS benefit us in h5? Because of sprint, the BMS has been lowered to where strafing really doesn’t matter anymore, doesn’t help that there’s more magnetism to the weapons to help combat sprint with just makes it even worse. The 1st sleeed(BMS) is really an afterthought. The second(sprint) is what’s used because 343 forces us to. The third (since you consider it one) is not used to move around a map efficiently.

11707

[deleted]

11708

Sprint is fun

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> > > > > > 2533274832130936;11671:
> > > > > > Right so I want to actually go through sin’s arguments here
> > > > > > point by point
> > > > > >
> > > > > > he said that his reasons for liking them were immersion, lord, predictive combat and player expectations
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Now the only thing that even remotely resembles a gameplay mechanic would be predictive combat, which halo 5 doesn’t have partly because of sprint
> > > > > >
> > > > > > there’s no way to predict when an enemy is sprinting and when they aren’t so that doesn’t lend to the argument
> > > > > >
> > > > > > moving on to the post he linked
> > > > > > it reads the following
> > > > > >
> > > > > > “I think sprint is important part of the game now and should stay. I dont know why it really matters in campaign. It allows you to escape easier for one so i dont know why you would want it removed. Kinda why its essential in the game now. Being able to get around faster and having the choice of sprinting around and running around factor a ton into if you run into a fight. For example most time if im running around a corner and a guy is right in my face and he was not sprinting i will likely die since you cant fire from hip while running. So it matters in a game-play what you choose to do. Think it should stay.”
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So to recap this we’ve got moving around faster, escape easier and sprinting around
> > > > > >
> > > > > > remind me how this isn’t a “you move faster” argument
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As for josh Holmes (you know the guy that lied about data centres)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As a Spartan, it makes sense that you can push yourself in a situation where survival is imperative. It’s an action that feels natural in the context of a firefight. It’s the extra gear that a Spartan draws upon if they focus purely on mobility and speed.
> > > > > > It creates opportunities and meaningful choices on offense and defense. On offense you can commit to an aggressive push or flank at a slight cost to weapon readiness. On defense, you can try for a rapid retreat but it carries the trade-off of stalling your shield recharge. Should you be able to escape from a situation where you are over-matched or have lost the upper hand? Yes, in a skillful manner (using mobility and spatial awareness to your advantage) and so long as your opponent has opportunity to counter using their own skills. The key for us has been to balance the potential escapability of sprint with mechanics like shield recharge and sprint ramp-up, while maintaining a sprint mechanic that feels good. This is something that we will continue to focus on post-beta as this careful balance is so important.
> > > > > > Sprint is also an action that the vast majority of Halo players expect to be able to utilize in both an offensive and defensive context. I know that this community does not feel that way (or likely believes that statement to be accurate), but the larger Halo community is very diverse and we are building a game for an audience with many different perspectives represented amongst them. Within that larger audience, most people expect to be able to sprint. Particularly as this is the third Halo game to feature the mechanic.
> > > > > > Another important consideration for us is to keep the core play experience as consistent as possible between Campaign, Arena, and the larger MP experiences that we are building. We feel that sprint, done right, works well in Arena. I know that’s a point of significant contention amongst this community. Sprint also works tremendously well in the context of those other experiences that I mentioned. When a player crosses over from Campaign to Arena, or from Arena to big team MP, we want the mechanics to translate across consistently. It’s jarring to become accustomed to a core mechanic only to have it disappear, or vice versa. That’s something that we want to avoid.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > All of these points were were present and better implemented in H3 without the use of sprint and amounts to nothing more than the lead dev trying to justify (poorly) sprints inclusion
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > So you’re saying that all those individual points that you’ve just argued go beyond “I like having sprint in Halo,”?? That’s why I linked them in the first place, you tried to claim you had yet to see any other arguments about sprint in this thread and yet you just took an enormous post to go back through and respond to a few of Josh Holmes’ pro sprint points and a few of mine… I’ve already answered those points with counter after counter so I certainly disagree with your counters here but the point in linking them wasn’t to try and reopen the discussion about what’s already been debated with the same old points… The point in linking those pro sprint points is exactly what you’ve just proven- there have indeed been multiple points to support keeping sprint in Halo beyond simply stating “I like sprint.”
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > …what counter???
> > > > i still don’t see a counter here
> > > > your points were immersion, lore predictive combat and player expectation
> > > >
> > > > these are not counters to gameplay mechanic based arguments against sprint…
> > > >
> > > > the post you linked literally said “escape easier move faster”
> > > > that was the base of the “counter”
> > > >
> > > > and josh holmes did not cite game play mechanics as his reasons to include it
> > > > actually read his justifications for sprint
> > > > all of the things he mentioned are possible in H3 and done better I might add
> > > >
> > > > so again I am asking for actual gameplay mechanic based arguments as to why sprint enriches halo and makes it a better experience that doesn’t include personal preference and “you move faster” because this is literally all you’ve said
> > > >
> > > > also and one more time
> > > >
> > > > eliminate sprint increase FOV and increase base movement speed to 110-115%
> > > >
> > > > if you do this both both pro and anti sprinters should in theory be happy
> > >
> > >
> > > Part of the draw of sprint, and something Sin has mentioned several times throughout this thread, is the variety that the.different movement speeds give you, and how it is a tactical decision to use sprint vs not use it. That can’t be achieved nearly as profoundly with solely a single,
> > > increased BMS, other than crouching, which is a 3rd movement speed that has overall been ignored on this thread.
> > >
> > > Though doI suppose you can not push down on the thumb stick at full speed, but still not quite the same effect.
> >
> >
> > So how does the BMS benefit us in h5? Because of sprint, the BMS has been lowered to where strafing really doesn’t matter anymore, doesn’t help that there’s more magnetism to the weapons to help combat sprint with just makes it even worse. The 1st sleeed(BMS) is really an afterthought. The second(sprint) is what’s used because 343 forces us to. The third (since you consider it one) is not used to move around a map efficiently.
>
>
> Thrusters made it so strafing doesn’t matter, not sprint.

And why do weapons have so much magnetism to them? It’s there to help combat sprint (IE to hit moving targets easier). The BMS is simply not fit to work for an effective strafe in h5(kind of why a lot of people do that crouching B.S.), it was even an issue in h4 but to a lesser extent. Thrusters does not in anyway meet the role that strafing does. It’s a limited use kind of mechanic and if that’s 343s way of replacing strafing then they’re just even more incompetent.

11710

> 2533274923562209;11706:
> > 2533274913913392;11685:
> > > 2533274832130936;11679:
> > > > 2625759425619671;11674:
> > > > > 2533274832130936;11671:
> > > > > Right so I want to actually go through sin’s arguments here
> > > > > point by point
> > > > >
> > > > > he said that his reasons for liking them were immersion, lord, predictive combat and player expectations
> > > > >
> > > > > Now the only thing that even remotely resembles a gameplay mechanic would be predictive combat, which halo 5 doesn’t have partly because of sprint
> > > > >
> > > > > there’s no way to predict when an enemy is sprinting and when they aren’t so that doesn’t lend to the argument
> > > > >
> > > > > moving on to the post he linked
> > > > > it reads the following
> > > > >
> > > > > “I think sprint is important part of the game now and should stay. I dont know why it really matters in campaign. It allows you to escape easier for one so i dont know why you would want it removed. Kinda why its essential in the game now. Being able to get around faster and having the choice of sprinting around and running around factor a ton into if you run into a fight. For example most time if im running around a corner and a guy is right in my face and he was not sprinting i will likely die since you cant fire from hip while running. So it matters in a game-play what you choose to do. Think it should stay.”
> > > > >
> > > > > So to recap this we’ve got moving around faster, escape easier and sprinting around
> > > > >
> > > > > remind me how this isn’t a “you move faster” argument
> > > > >
> > > > > As for josh Holmes (you know the guy that lied about data centres)
> > > > >
> > > > > As a Spartan, it makes sense that you can push yourself in a situation where survival is imperative. It’s an action that feels natural in the context of a firefight. It’s the extra gear that a Spartan draws upon if they focus purely on mobility and speed.
> > > > > It creates opportunities and meaningful choices on offense and defense. On offense you can commit to an aggressive push or flank at a slight cost to weapon readiness. On defense, you can try for a rapid retreat but it carries the trade-off of stalling your shield recharge. Should you be able to escape from a situation where you are over-matched or have lost the upper hand? Yes, in a skillful manner (using mobility and spatial awareness to your advantage) and so long as your opponent has opportunity to counter using their own skills. The key for us has been to balance the potential escapability of sprint with mechanics like shield recharge and sprint ramp-up, while maintaining a sprint mechanic that feels good. This is something that we will continue to focus on post-beta as this careful balance is so important.
> > > > > Sprint is also an action that the vast majority of Halo players expect to be able to utilize in both an offensive and defensive context. I know that this community does not feel that way (or likely believes that statement to be accurate), but the larger Halo community is very diverse and we are building a game for an audience with many different perspectives represented amongst them. Within that larger audience, most people expect to be able to sprint. Particularly as this is the third Halo game to feature the mechanic.
> > > > > Another important consideration for us is to keep the core play experience as consistent as possible between Campaign, Arena, and the larger MP experiences that we are building. We feel that sprint, done right, works well in Arena. I know that’s a point of significant contention amongst this community. Sprint also works tremendously well in the context of those other experiences that I mentioned. When a player crosses over from Campaign to Arena, or from Arena to big team MP, we want the mechanics to translate across consistently. It’s jarring to become accustomed to a core mechanic only to have it disappear, or vice versa. That’s something that we want to avoid.
> > > > >
> > > > > All of these points were were present and better implemented in H3 without the use of sprint and amounts to nothing more than the lead dev trying to justify (poorly) sprints inclusion
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > So you’re saying that all those individual points that you’ve just argued go beyond “I like having sprint in Halo,”?? That’s why I linked them in the first place, you tried to claim you had yet to see any other arguments about sprint in this thread and yet you just took an enormous post to go back through and respond to a few of Josh Holmes’ pro sprint points and a few of mine… I’ve already answered those points with counter after counter so I certainly disagree with your counters here but the point in linking them wasn’t to try and reopen the discussion about what’s already been debated with the same old points… The point in linking those pro sprint points is exactly what you’ve just proven- there have indeed been multiple points to support keeping sprint in Halo beyond simply stating “I like sprint.”
> > >
> > >
> > > …what counter???
> > > i still don’t see a counter here
> > > your points were immersion, lore predictive combat and player expectation
> > >
> > > these are not counters to gameplay mechanic based arguments against sprint…
> > >
> > > the post you linked literally said “escape easier move faster”
> > > that was the base of the “counter”
> > >
> > > and josh holmes did not cite game play mechanics as his reasons to include it
> > > actually read his justifications for sprint
> > > all of the things he mentioned are possible in H3 and done better I might add
> > >
> > > so again I am asking for actual gameplay mechanic based arguments as to why sprint enriches halo and makes it a better experience that doesn’t include personal preference and “you move faster” because this is literally all you’ve said
> > >
> > > also and one more time
> > >
> > > eliminate sprint increase FOV and increase base movement speed to 110-115%
> > >
> > > if you do this both both pro and anti sprinters should in theory be happy
> >
> >
> > Part of the draw of sprint, and something Sin has mentioned several times throughout this thread, is the variety that the.different movement speeds give you, and how it is a tactical decision to use sprint vs not use it. That can’t be achieved nearly as profoundly with solely a single,
> > increased BMS, other than crouching, which is a 3rd movement speed that has overall been ignored on this thread.
> >
> > Though doI suppose you can not push down on the thumb stick at full speed, but still not quite the same effect.
>
>
> So how does the BMS benefit us in h5? Because of sprint, the BMS has been lowered to where strafing really doesn’t matter anymore, doesn’t help that there’s more magnetism to the weapons to help combat sprint with just makes it even worse. The 1st sleeed(BMS) is really an afterthought. The second(sprint) is what’s used because 343 forces us to. The third (since you consider it one) is not used to move around a map efficiently.

Using the BMS is quite essential in Halo 5, as it is the main speed at which combat takes place, but I do agree, I don’t think they necessarily had to nerf the strafe/backup speed nearly as much as they have since the inclusion of sprint. It could obviously be done better, and I’m not sure anyone real knows what would be better for future Halo games. I’m quite certain 343 has the ability to make an amazing HALO game includingsprint (one that stays true to the Halo core) but I also believe they have the capability of making a game just as amazing for different reasons using a sole BMS.

One thing I love about the Halo series is how different each game is from each other, while still maintaining the core features that makes it recognizable as Halo. Each Halo game (aside from 3-ODST and kinda 2-3), has changed quite drastically while still maintaining the Haloidentity. And you can enjoy each game individually for what it is, a distinct part of the greater whole Halo series. Sorry, got a little carried away with that last paragraph lol.

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> 2533274913913392;11705:
> > 2533274832130936;11690:
> > > 2625759425619671;11689:
> > > > 2533274832130936;11688:
> > > > > 2533274913913392;11685:
> > > > > > 2533274832130936;11679:
> > > > > > > 2625759425619671;11674:
> > > > > > > > 2533274832130936;11671:
> > > > > > > > Right so I want to actually go through sin’s arguments here
> > > > > > > > point by point
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > he said that his reasons for liking them were immersion, lord, predictive combat and player expectations
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Now the only thing that even remotely resembles a gameplay mechanic would be predictive combat, which halo 5 doesn’t have partly because of sprint
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > there’s no way to predict when an enemy is sprinting and when they aren’t so that doesn’t lend to the argument
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > moving on to the post he linked
> > > > > > > > it reads the following
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > “I think sprint is important part of the game now and should stay. I dont know why it really matters in campaign. It allows you to escape easier for one so i dont know why you would want it removed. Kinda why its essential in the game now. Being able to get around faster and having the choice of sprinting around and running around factor a ton into if you run into a fight. For example most time if im running around a corner and a guy is right in my face and he was not sprinting i will likely die since you cant fire from hip while running. So it matters in a game-play what you choose to do. Think it should stay.”
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > So to recap this we’ve got moving around faster, escape easier and sprinting around
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > remind me how this isn’t a “you move faster” argument
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > As for josh Holmes (you know the guy that lied about data centres)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > As a Spartan, it makes sense that you can push yourself in a situation where survival is imperative. It’s an action that feels natural in the context of a firefight. It’s the extra gear that a Spartan draws upon if they focus purely on mobility and speed.
> > > > > > > > It creates opportunities and meaningful choices on offense and defense. On offense you can commit to an aggressive push or flank at a slight cost to weapon readiness. On defense, you can try for a rapid retreat but it carries the trade-off of stalling your shield recharge. Should you be able to escape from a situation where you are over-matched or have lost the upper hand? Yes, in a skillful manner (using mobility and spatial awareness to your advantage) and so long as your opponent has opportunity to counter using their own skills. The key for us has been to balance the potential escapability of sprint with mechanics like shield recharge and sprint ramp-up, while maintaining a sprint mechanic that feels good. This is something that we will continue to focus on post-beta as this careful balance is so important.
> > > > > > > > Sprint is also an action that the vast majority of Halo players expect to be able to utilize in both an offensive and defensive context. I know that this community does not feel that way (or likely believes that statement to be accurate), but the larger Halo community is very diverse and we are building a game for an audience with many different perspectives represented amongst them. Within that larger audience, most people expect to be able to sprint. Particularly as this is the third Halo game to feature the mechanic.
> > > > > > > > Another important consideration for us is to keep the core play experience as consistent as possible between Campaign, Arena, and the larger MP experiences that we are building. We feel that sprint, done right, works well in Arena. I know that’s a point of significant contention amongst this community. Sprint also works tremendously well in the context of those other experiences that I mentioned. When a player crosses over from Campaign to Arena, or from Arena to big team MP, we want the mechanics to translate across consistently. It’s jarring to become accustomed to a core mechanic only to have it disappear, or vice versa. That’s something that we want to avoid.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > All of these points were were present and better implemented in H3 without the use of sprint and amounts to nothing more than the lead dev trying to justify (poorly) sprints inclusion
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So you’re saying that all those individual points that you’ve just argued go beyond “I like having sprint in Halo,”?? That’s why I linked them in the first place, you tried to claim you had yet to see any other arguments about sprint in this thread and yet you just took an enormous post to go back through and respond to a few of Josh Holmes’ pro sprint points and a few of mine… I’ve already answered those points with counter after counter so I certainly disagree with your counters here but the point in linking them wasn’t to try and reopen the discussion about what’s already been debated with the same old points… The point in linking those pro sprint points is exactly what you’ve just proven- there have indeed been multiple points to support keeping sprint in Halo beyond simply stating “I like sprint.”
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > …what counter???
> > > > > > i still don’t see a counter here
> > > > > > your points were immersion, lore predictive combat and player expectation
> > > > > >
> > > > > > these are not counters to gameplay mechanic based arguments against sprint…
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Part of the draw of sprint, and something Sin has mentioned several times throughout this thread, is the variety that the.different movement speeds give you, and how it is a tactical decision to use sprint vs not use it. That can’t be achieved nearly as profoundly with solely a single,
> > > > > increased BMS, other than crouching, which is a 3rd movement speed that has overall been ignored on this thread.
> > > > >
> > > > > Though doI suppose you can not push down on the thumb stick at full speed, but still not quite the same effect.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > How are varying movement speeds outside of crouch beneficial to gameplay?
> > > >
> > > > if there was no sprint the maps wouldn’t be blown out which means no mass sections of dead space to traverse through which means less need for massive amounts of bullet magnetism which means less need for precision weapons having shorter RRRs…
> > > >
> > > > spriting isnt tactical
> > > > its sole purpose is to get you somewhere faster…
> > >
> > >
> > > Look bud, you’re the one who a) stated that these pro sprint opinions haven’t been made in this thread (they have) and b) tried to lump all pro sprint points into meaning “I like sprint,” which is also untrue. Don’t freak out on people for providing you with reasons that you’re asking to see in this thread either.
> >
> >
> > Didn’t freak out, I simply countered his post with actual facts pertaining to the effect sprint has on the game
> > I’ve given actual gameplay reasons as to why sprint hurts halos gameplay and design
> >
> > I never said pro sprint opinions haven’t been made on this thread
> > ive seen lots of pro sprint opinions thrown around, sadly none of them have any actual basis as to why sprint improves halo which is actually what I asked for
>
>
> The difference between you, Zr0Fear, and Exuberant Umbra, from people like Naqser (anti-sprint) and Sin (pro-sprint), is you just try to shut other people down without truly trying to see things from theirperspective. Naqser and Sin both try to berespectful, see things from from the other side, concede (factual) points that they are gotten on or agree with, and encourage honest, true debate and discussion, not this mindless ‘I’m smarter than you and my opinion, or subjective viewpoint is better than yours!’

As if you’re excused from that one exchange you made with Exuberant Umbra when she wasn’t trying to sugarcoat her argument against sprint. Don’t act like you’re that much better.

11712

Halo is not a tactical game. In fact the entire game is built upon the idea of providing a superhuman power trip to the player and this is accomplished by limiting(or outright eliminating) risk/reward gameplay mechanics.

Let’s look at Halo’s core mechanics here.

Rebounding health
When HCE launched FPS games did not use rebounding health/shields they used health and shield pick ups. Pick ups created a very risk/reward heavy mechanic. You often had to decide whether you where on the defensive looking for health or on the offensive searching for players. With rebounding health Halo big time lessened the risk/reward of health decisions. All you had to do was wait a few seconds and your shields were back.

Two Weapon Limit
Again, when HCE launched FPS didn’t have two weapon limits. They let you carry all kinds of weapons at once. These weapons were usually incredibly niche. Halo limited you to two and then gave you more utilitarian type weapons. This lessened the risk/reward nature of weapon choices.

Hotkey Nades
Instead of having to scroll through a list to grenades, switch to them, throw them and then switch back to a weapon you just needed to press one button in Halo. This lessened the risk/reward of using grenades.

Movement
Unlike most games you don’t bloom and lose accuracy for moving, strafing or jumping. This totally removed the risk/reward of picking between movement and combat.

Shooting
You don’t bloom when you’re not aiming down sights. You don’t bloom due to ROF. There are no alt functions on weapons. The entirety of shooting is designed around not having risk/reward.

These were the core pillars of Halo gameplay and they all strove to eliminate or lessen the importance of risk/reward gameplay. So…why does it make any sense to throw in one single mechanic that is entirely built around the concept of risk/reward? That mechanic would be actively working in the complete opposite direction of the rest of the mechanics in the game? Can someone explain to me how sprint being “tactical” is a good thing? How it providing risk/reward is a good thing?

PS duel wielding, AAs, bloom, perks, loudouts, fall damge and equipment all providing risk/reward and they were all removed from Halo.

11713

> 2533274963383684;11708:
> Sprint is fun

If sprint is fun, then they can add it into custom games as a feature. Get it out of competitive multiplayer though PLEASE!

11714

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> > 2533274913913392;11705:
> > > 2533274832130936;11690:
> > > > 2625759425619671;11689:
> > > > > 2533274832130936;11688:
> > > > > > 2533274913913392;11685:
> > > > > > > 2533274832130936;11679:
> > > > > > > > 2625759425619671;11674:
> > > > > > > > > 2533274832130936;11671:
> > > > > > > > > Right so I want to actually go through sin’s arguments here
> > > > > > > > > point by point
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > he said that his reasons for liking them were immersion, lord, predictive combat and player expectations
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Now the only thing that even remotely resembles a gameplay mechanic would be predictive combat, which halo 5 doesn’t have partly because of sprint
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > there’s no way to predict when an enemy is sprinting and when they aren’t so that doesn’t lend to the argument
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > moving on to the post he linked
> > > > > > > > > it reads the following
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > “I think sprint is important part of the game now and should stay. I dont know why it really matters in campaign. It allows you to escape easier for one so i dont know why you would want it removed. Kinda why its essential in the game now. Being able to get around faster and having the choice of sprinting around and running around factor a ton into if you run into a fight. For example most time if im running around a corner and a guy is right in my face and he was not sprinting i will likely die since you cant fire from hip while running. So it matters in a game-play what you choose to do. Think it should stay.”
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > So to recap this we’ve got moving around faster, escape easier and sprinting around
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > remind me how this isn’t a “you move faster” argument
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > As for josh Holmes (you know the guy that lied about data centres)
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > As a Spartan, it makes sense that you can push yourself in a situation where survival is imperative. It’s an action that feels natural in the context of a firefight. It’s the extra gear that a Spartan draws upon if they focus purely on mobility and speed.
> > > > > > > > > It creates opportunities and meaningful choices on offense and defense. On offense you can commit to an aggressive push or flank at a slight cost to weapon readiness. On defense, you can try for a rapid retreat but it carries the trade-off of stalling your shield recharge. Should you be able to escape from a situation where you are over-matched or have lost the upper hand? Yes, in a skillful manner (using mobility and spatial awareness to your advantage) and so long as your opponent has opportunity to counter using their own skills. The key for us has been to balance the potential escapability of sprint with mechanics like shield recharge and sprint ramp-up, while maintaining a sprint mechanic that feels good. This is something that we will continue to focus on post-beta as this careful balance is so important.
> > > > > > > > > Sprint is also an action that the vast majority of Halo players expect to be able to utilize in both an offensive and defensive context. I know that this community does not feel that way (or likely believes that statement to be accurate), but the larger Halo community is very diverse and we are building a game for an audience with many different perspectives represented amongst them. Within that larger audience, most people expect to be able to sprint. Particularly as this is the third Halo game to feature the mechanic.
> > > > > > > > > Another important consideration for us is to keep the core play experience as consistent as possible between Campaign, Arena, and the larger MP experiences that we are building. We feel that sprint, done right, works well in Arena. I know that’s a point of significant contention amongst this community. Sprint also works tremendously well in the context of those other experiences that I mentioned. When a player crosses over from Campaign to Arena, or from Arena to big team MP, we want the mechanics to translate across consistently. It’s jarring to become accustomed to a core mechanic only to have it disappear, or vice versa. That’s something that we want to avoid.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > All of these points were were present and better implemented in H3 without the use of sprint and amounts to nothing more than the lead dev trying to justify (poorly) sprints inclusion
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > So you’re saying that all those individual points that you’ve just argued go beyond “I like having sprint in Halo,”?? That’s why I linked them in the first place, you tried to claim you had yet to see any other arguments about sprint in this thread and yet you just took an enormous post to go back through and respond to a few of Josh Holmes’ pro sprint points and a few of mine… I’ve already answered those points with counter after counter so I certainly disagree with your counters here but the point in linking them wasn’t to try and reopen the discussion about what’s already been debated with the same old points… The point in linking those pro sprint points is exactly what you’ve just proven- there have indeed been multiple points to support keeping sprint in Halo beyond simply stating “I like sprint.”
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > …what counter???
> > > > > > > i still don’t see a counter here
> > > > > > > your points were immersion, lore predictive combat and player expectation
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > these are not counters to gameplay mechanic based arguments against sprint…
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Part of the draw of sprint, and something Sin has mentioned several times throughout this thread, is the variety that the.different movement speeds give you, and how it is a tactical decision to use sprint vs not use it. That can’t be achieved nearly as profoundly with solely a single,
> > > > > > increased BMS, other than crouching, which is a 3rd movement speed that has overall been ignored on this thread.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Though doI suppose you can not push down on the thumb stick at full speed, but still not quite the same effect.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > How are varying movement speeds outside of crouch beneficial to gameplay?
> > > > >
> > > > > if there was no sprint the maps wouldn’t be blown out which means no mass sections of dead space to traverse through which means less need for massive amounts of bullet magnetism which means less need for precision weapons having shorter RRRs…
> > > > >
> > > > > spriting isnt tactical
> > > > > its sole purpose is to get you somewhere faster…
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Look bud, you’re the one who a) stated that these pro sprint opinions haven’t been made in this thread (they have) and b) tried to lump all pro sprint points into meaning “I like sprint,” which is also untrue. Don’t freak out on people for providing you with reasons that you’re asking to see in this thread either.
> > >
> > >
> > > Didn’t freak out, I simply countered his post with actual facts pertaining to the effect sprint has on the game
> > > I’ve given actual gameplay reasons as to why sprint hurts halos gameplay and design
> > >
> > > I never said pro sprint opinions haven’t been made on this thread
> > > ive seen lots of pro sprint opinions thrown around, sadly none of them have any actual basis as to why sprint improves halo which is actually what I asked for
> >
> >
> > The difference between you, Zr0Fear, and Exuberant Umbra, from people like Naqser (anti-sprint) and Sin (pro-sprint), is you just try to shut other people down without truly trying to see things from theirperspective. Naqser and Sin both try to berespectful, see things from from the other side, concede (factual) points that they are gotten on or agree with, and encourage honest, true debate and discussion, not this mindless ‘I’m smarter than you and my opinion, or subjective viewpoint is better than yours!’
>
>
> As if you’re excused from that one exchange you made with Exuberant Umbra when she wasn’t trying to sugarcoat her argument against sprint. Don’t act like you’re that much better.

Lol, and did I say I was. I was very careful to leave myself out of that. And yes I did get pretty frustrated with Exuberant. Buy there is a difference between being arrogant and talking down to others, and putting things bluntly. Exuberant was definitely the prior

11715

[deleted]

11716

> 2533274866906624;10953:
> > 2625759425619671;10951:
> > > 2533274866906624;10950:
> > > > 2625759425619671;10942:
> > > > > 2535450703392903;10941:
> > > > > Debating about the polls is silly. No matter the result of them, they don’t matter. This is a creative medium.
> > > > >
> > > > > Success in creative mediums is often attained by subverting expectations and giving people something they didn’t expect to love but end up loving.
> > > > >
> > > > > “Anti sprinters” are convinced replacing sprint with high BMS will do this and no data exists that can disprove this theory.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Equally along those lines no data exists that can prove such a theory… This being the creative medium that it is, all we can do is discuss the issue with fellow fans that are not all like-minded regarding sprint. Personally, I think I’ve heard and seen many points supporting why one high BMS will definitely not replace sprint and would make Halo worse… Anti sprinters would tell you different, but I do agree insofar that no one should be here with the intention to “disprove,” “dismantle,” and/or “destroy,” opinions from our fellow fans about this.
> > >
> > >
> > > I got three reasons for you.
> > > 1. Halo: CE
> > > 2. Halo 2
> > > 3. Halo 3
> >
> >
> > I’ve got three reasons for you.
> > 1) Reach
> > 2) Halo 4
> > 3) Halo 5
>
>
> Reach, 4 & 5 are the three most controversial Halo titles.

That doesn’t really mean much, just because it’s controversial, doesn’t mean it should change. Most of the abilities and mechanics that were put into Reach were meant to be put into the series earlier, some even in Halo 2. Bungie didn’t put those mechanics in because they didn’t have time and didn’t have the best set up to do it then, but if they had, then Halo 2 and 3 would have been super controversial.

11717

> 2533274919539931;11716:
> > 2533274866906624;10953:
> > > 2625759425619671;10951:
> > > > 2533274866906624;10950:
> > > > > 2625759425619671;10942:
> > > > > > 2535450703392903;10941:
> > > > > > Debating about the polls is silly. No matter the result of them, they don’t matter. This is a creative medium.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Success in creative mediums is often attained by subverting expectations and giving people something they didn’t expect to love but end up loving.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > “Anti sprinters” are convinced replacing sprint with high BMS will do this and no data exists that can disprove this theory.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Equally along those lines no data exists that can prove such a theory… This being the creative medium that it is, all we can do is discuss the issue with fellow fans that are not all like-minded regarding sprint. Personally, I think I’ve heard and seen many points supporting why one high BMS will definitely not replace sprint and would make Halo worse… Anti sprinters would tell you different, but I do agree insofar that no one should be here with the intention to “disprove,” “dismantle,” and/or “destroy,” opinions from our fellow fans about this.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I got three reasons for you.
> > > > 1. Halo: CE
> > > > 2. Halo 2
> > > > 3. Halo 3
> > >
> > >
> > > I’ve got three reasons for you.
> > > 1) Reach
> > > 2) Halo 4
> > > 3) Halo 5
> >
> >
> > Reach, 4 & 5 are the three most controversial Halo titles.
>
>
> That doesn’t really mean much, just because it’s controversial, doesn’t mean it should change. Most of the abilities and mechanics that were put into Reach were meant to be put into the series earlier, some even in Halo 2. Bungie didn’t put those mechanics in because they didn’t have time and didn’t have the best set up to do it then, but if they had, then Halo 2 and 3 would have been super controversial.

Incorrect, they played with sprint early on and removed it due to pacing issues. Set up? Sprint has been in fps gaming since the 90’s.

11718

> 2533274919539931;11716:
> > 2533274866906624;10953:
> > > 2625759425619671;10951:
> > > > 2533274866906624;10950:
> > > > > 2625759425619671;10942:
> > > > > > 2535450703392903;10941:
> > > > > > Debating about the polls is silly. No matter the result of them, they don’t matter. This is a creative medium.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Success in creative mediums is often attained by subverting expectations and giving people something they didn’t expect to love but end up loving.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > “Anti sprinters” are convinced replacing sprint with high BMS will do this and no data exists that can disprove this theory.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Equally along those lines no data exists that can prove such a theory… This being the creative medium that it is, all we can do is discuss the issue with fellow fans that are not all like-minded regarding sprint. Personally, I think I’ve heard and seen many points supporting why one high BMS will definitely not replace sprint and would make Halo worse… Anti sprinters would tell you different, but I do agree insofar that no one should be here with the intention to “disprove,” “dismantle,” and/or “destroy,” opinions from our fellow fans about this.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I got three reasons for you.
> > > > 1. Halo: CE
> > > > 2. Halo 2
> > > > 3. Halo 3
> > >
> > >
> > > I’ve got three reasons for you.
> > > 1) Reach
> > > 2) Halo 4
> > > 3) Halo 5
> >
> >
> > Reach, 4 & 5 are the three most controversial Halo titles.
>
>
> That doesn’t really mean much, just because it’s controversial, doesn’t mean it should change. Most of the abilities and mechanics that were put into Reach were meant to be put into the series earlier, some even in Halo 2. Bungie didn’t put those mechanics in because they didn’t have time and didn’t have the best set up to do it then, but if they had, then Halo 2 and 3 would have been super controversial.

Bungie also originally didn’t want Halo 2 to be anything like it turned out to be (it wouldn’t have even been anything like CE), so the fact that Bungie wanted some of these things included sooner doesn’t help your point.

Plus, controversial games - from a gameplay perspective - typically don’t lead to much success (relative to the franchise, Reach, H4, H5 demonstrate that point perfectly), so including many of these concepts earlier very likely would’ve kept Halo from becoming the powerhouse it was.

11719

> 2533274919539931;11716:
> > 2533274866906624;10953:
> > > 2625759425619671;10951:
> > > > 2533274866906624;10950:
> > > > > 2625759425619671;10942:
> > > > > > 2535450703392903;10941:
> > > > > > Debating about the polls is silly. No matter the result of them, they don’t matter. This is a creative medium.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Success in creative mediums is often attained by subverting expectations and giving people something they didn’t expect to love but end up loving.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > “Anti sprinters” are convinced replacing sprint with high BMS will do this and no data exists that can disprove this theory.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Equally along those lines no data exists that can prove such a theory… This being the creative medium that it is, all we can do is discuss the issue with fellow fans that are not all like-minded regarding sprint. Personally, I think I’ve heard and seen many points supporting why one high BMS will definitely not replace sprint and would make Halo worse… Anti sprinters would tell you different, but I do agree insofar that no one should be here with the intention to “disprove,” “dismantle,” and/or “destroy,” opinions from our fellow fans about this.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I got three reasons for you.
> > > > 1. Halo: CE
> > > > 2. Halo 2
> > > > 3. Halo 3
> > >
> > >
> > > I’ve got three reasons for you.
> > > 1) Reach
> > > 2) Halo 4
> > > 3) Halo 5
> >
> >
> > Reach, 4 & 5 are the three most controversial Halo titles.
>
>
> That doesn’t really mean much, just because it’s controversial, doesn’t mean it should change. Most of the abilities and mechanics that were put into Reach were meant to be put into the series earlier, some even in Halo 2. Bungie didn’t put those mechanics in because they didn’t have time and didn’t have the best set up to do it then, but if they had, then Halo 2 and 3 would have been super controversial.

It does mean change needs to happen when each controversial game has regressed game by game.

are you assuming bungie meant to put sprint in h2 and h3? Cuz they did “test” them but excluded it later on. Why weren’t they in h3 if they lacked the time for h2? They had an extra 3 years after h2 to do so. I’ll give you an answer tho cuz we’ve already gotten into this earlier (and had ex bungie members mention it on twitter). They saw it detrimental to the game,and hence never included it in the final product come h2 and h3. Reach bungie is not the bungie we all know from CE-3 and destiny bungie (irrelevant I know but point is change in staff results in change of direction) isn’t the same as reach bungie. The change in their staff is why things changed,and they changed for the worse.

11720

> 2533274808669104;11717:
> > 2533274919539931;11716:
> > > 2533274866906624;10953:
> > > > 2625759425619671;10951:
> > > > > 2533274866906624;10950:
> > > > > > 2625759425619671;10942:
> > > > > > > 2535450703392903;10941:
> > > > > > > Debating about the polls is silly. No matter the result of them, they don’t matter. This is a creative medium.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Success in creative mediums is often attained by subverting expectations and giving people something they didn’t expect to love but end up loving.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > “Anti sprinters” are convinced replacing sprint with high BMS will do this and no data exists that can disprove this theory.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Equally along those lines no data exists that can prove such a theory… This being the creative medium that it is, all we can do is discuss the issue with fellow fans that are not all like-minded regarding sprint. Personally, I think I’ve heard and seen many points supporting why one high BMS will definitely not replace sprint and would make Halo worse… Anti sprinters would tell you different, but I do agree insofar that no one should be here with the intention to “disprove,” “dismantle,” and/or “destroy,” opinions from our fellow fans about this.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I got three reasons for you.
> > > > > 1. Halo: CE
> > > > > 2. Halo 2
> > > > > 3. Halo 3
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I’ve got three reasons for you.
> > > > 1) Reach
> > > > 2) Halo 4
> > > > 3) Halo 5
> > >
> > >
> > > Reach, 4 & 5 are the three most controversial Halo titles.
> >
> >
> > That doesn’t really mean much, just because it’s controversial, doesn’t mean it should change. Most of the abilities and mechanics that were put into Reach were meant to be put into the series earlier, some even in Halo 2. Bungie didn’t put those mechanics in because they didn’t have time and didn’t have the best set up to do it then, but if they had, then Halo 2 and 3 would have been super controversial.
>
>
> Incorrect, they played with sprint early on and removed it due to pacing issues. Set up? Sprint has been in fps gaming since the 90’s.

It’s not incorrect, that’s what I was referring to, they were trying to use it in Halo 2 but they couldn’t balance it right before they had to finish the game.

11721

> 2533274919539931;11720:
> > 2533274808669104;11717:
> > > 2533274919539931;11716:
> > > > 2533274866906624;10953:
> > > > > 2625759425619671;10951:
> > > > > > 2533274866906624;10950:
> > > > > > > 2625759425619671;10942:
> > > > > > > > 2535450703392903;10941:
> > > > > > > > Debating about the polls is silly. No matter the result of them, they don’t matter. This is a creative medium.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Success in creative mediums is often attained by subverting expectations and giving people something they didn’t expect to love but end up loving.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > “Anti sprinters” are convinced replacing sprint with high BMS will do this and no data exists that can disprove this theory.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Equally along those lines no data exists that can prove such a theory… This being the creative medium that it is, all we can do is discuss the issue with fellow fans that are not all like-minded regarding sprint. Personally, I think I’ve heard and seen many points supporting why one high BMS will definitely not replace sprint and would make Halo worse… Anti sprinters would tell you different, but I do agree insofar that no one should be here with the intention to “disprove,” “dismantle,” and/or “destroy,” opinions from our fellow fans about this.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I got three reasons for you.
> > > > > > 1. Halo: CE
> > > > > > 2. Halo 2
> > > > > > 3. Halo 3
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I’ve got three reasons for you.
> > > > > 1) Reach
> > > > > 2) Halo 4
> > > > > 3) Halo 5
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Reach, 4 & 5 are the three most controversial Halo titles.
> > >
> > >
> > > That doesn’t really mean much, just because it’s controversial, doesn’t mean it should change. Most of the abilities and mechanics that were put into Reach were meant to be put into the series earlier, some even in Halo 2. Bungie didn’t put those mechanics in because they didn’t have time and didn’t have the best set up to do it then, but if they had, then Halo 2 and 3 would have been super controversial.
> >
> >
> > Incorrect, they played with sprint early on and removed it due to pacing issues. Set up? Sprint has been in fps gaming since the 90’s.
>
>
> It’s not incorrect, that’s what I was referring to, they were trying to use it in Halo 2 but they couldn’t balance it right before they had to finish the game.

Why didn’t h3 have it? Why is h4 sprint different than reach? Why is h5 different than h4s version? Clearly no one knows what they want the sprint setup to be with it continuously changing game to game,why have it if you’ve got no idea and sacrifice other aspects of the game on something a dev is undecided on? There’s no confidence on the mechanic at all.

11722

> 2533274919539931;11720:
> > 2533274808669104;11717:
> > > 2533274919539931;11716:
> > > > 2533274866906624;10953:
> > > > > 2625759425619671;10951:
> > > > > > 2533274866906624;10950:
> > > > > > > 2625759425619671;10942:
> > > > > > > > 2535450703392903;10941:
> > > > > > > > Debating about the polls is silly. No matter the result of them, they don’t matter. This is a creative medium.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Success in creative mediums is often attained by subverting expectations and giving people something they didn’t expect to love but end up loving.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > “Anti sprinters” are convinced replacing sprint with high BMS will do this and no data exists that can disprove this theory.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Equally along those lines no data exists that can prove such a theory… This being the creative medium that it is, all we can do is discuss the issue with fellow fans that are not all like-minded regarding sprint. Personally, I think I’ve heard and seen many points supporting why one high BMS will definitely not replace sprint and would make Halo worse… Anti sprinters would tell you different, but I do agree insofar that no one should be here with the intention to “disprove,” “dismantle,” and/or “destroy,” opinions from our fellow fans about this.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I got three reasons for you.
> > > > > > 1. Halo: CE
> > > > > > 2. Halo 2
> > > > > > 3. Halo 3
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I’ve got three reasons for you.
> > > > > 1) Reach
> > > > > 2) Halo 4
> > > > > 3) Halo 5
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Reach, 4 & 5 are the three most controversial Halo titles.
> > >
> > >
> > > That doesn’t really mean much, just because it’s controversial, doesn’t mean it should change. Most of the abilities and mechanics that were put into Reach were meant to be put into the series earlier, some even in Halo 2. Bungie didn’t put those mechanics in because they didn’t have time and didn’t have the best set up to do it then, but if they had, then Halo 2 and 3 would have been super controversial.
> >
> >
> > Incorrect, they played with sprint early on and removed it due to pacing issues. Set up? Sprint has been in fps gaming since the 90’s.
>
>
> It’s not incorrect, that’s what I was referring to, they were trying to use it in Halo 2 but they couldn’t balance it right before they had to finish the game.

Lacking animations means it’s not finished.
It was stated it was cut due to changing pacing into something they didn’t want. They made the essentials for testing it, then scrapped it.
It could easily have been included in Halo 3, or even ODST had they wanted to.

11723

> 2533274919539931;11720:
> > 2533274808669104;11717:
> > > 2533274919539931;11716:
> > > > 2533274866906624;10953:
> > > > > 2625759425619671;10951:
> > > > > > 2533274866906624;10950:
> > > > > > > 2625759425619671;10942:
> > > > > > > > 2535450703392903;10941:
> > > > > > > > Debating about the polls is silly. No matter the result of them, they don’t matter. This is a creative medium.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Success in creative mediums is often attained by subverting expectations and giving people something they didn’t expect to love but end up loving.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > “Anti sprinters” are convinced replacing sprint with high BMS will do this and no data exists that can disprove this theory.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Equally along those lines no data exists that can prove such a theory… This being the creative medium that it is, all we can do is discuss the issue with fellow fans that are not all like-minded regarding sprint. Personally, I think I’ve heard and seen many points supporting why one high BMS will definitely not replace sprint and would make Halo worse… Anti sprinters would tell you different, but I do agree insofar that no one should be here with the intention to “disprove,” “dismantle,” and/or “destroy,” opinions from our fellow fans about this.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I got three reasons for you.
> > > > > > 1. Halo: CE
> > > > > > 2. Halo 2
> > > > > > 3. Halo 3
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I’ve got three reasons for you.
> > > > > 1) Reach
> > > > > 2) Halo 4
> > > > > 3) Halo 5
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Reach, 4 & 5 are the three most controversial Halo titles.
> > >
> > >
> > > That doesn’t really mean much, just because it’s controversial, doesn’t mean it should change. Most of the abilities and mechanics that were put into Reach were meant to be put into the series earlier, some even in Halo 2. Bungie didn’t put those mechanics in because they didn’t have time and didn’t have the best set up to do it then, but if they had, then Halo 2 and 3 would have been super controversial.
> >
> >
> > Incorrect, they played with sprint early on and removed it due to pacing issues. Set up? Sprint has been in fps gaming since the 90’s.
>
>
> It’s not incorrect, that’s what I was referring to, they were trying to use it in Halo 2 but they couldn’t balance it right before they had to finish the game.

Again, it wasnt about time or them being rushed, this was early in development.