The sprint discussion thread

> 2533274832130936;11679:
> > 2625759425619671;11674:
> > > 2533274832130936;11671:
> > > Right so I want to actually go through sin’s arguments here
> > > point by point…
> >
> >
> > So you’re saying that all those individual points that you’ve just argued go beyond “I like having sprint in Halo,”?? That’s why I linked them in the first place, you tried to claim you had yet to see any other arguments about sprint in this thread and yet you just took an enormous post to go back through and respond to a few of Josh Holmes’ pro sprint points and a few of mine… I’ve already answered those points with counter after counter so I certainly disagree with your counters here but the point in linking them wasn’t to try and reopen the discussion about what’s already been debated with the same old points… The point in linking those pro sprint points is exactly what you’ve just proven- there have indeed been multiple points to support keeping sprint in Halo beyond simply stating “I like sprint.”
>
>
> …what counter???
> i still don’t see a counter here
> your points were immersion, lore predictive combat and player expectation…
>
> If you do this both both pro and anti sprinters should in theory be happy

I didn’t link those points to get into another argument with you about them. As stated, they have already been brought up and argued in this thread multiple times before.

I linked those points because you stated that you have yet to see any reasons why sprint should stay in Halo beyond “I like having sprint,” but multiple other pro sprint points have been provided and discussed at length in this thread… By trying to go through and counter all those points once again you have only further demonstrated that you actually know that multiple pro sprint opinions have been provided in this thread, you just disagree with them.

And no, anti sprinters will absolutely not “be happy,” with any pro sprint opinions provided- I can guarantee you that anti sprint diehards will go after each and every pro sprint point provided as they already have done so many times before in this thread (no matter how “mechanically grounded,” the pro sprint points may be. Anti sprint diehards don’t want sprint to remain in Halo and that’s never going to change, no matter what sort of points are brought into this thread.

> 2533274832130936;11679:
> > 2625759425619671;11674:
> > > 2533274832130936;11671:
> > > Right so I want to actually go through sin’s arguments here
> > > point by point
> > >
> > > he said that his reasons for liking them were immersion, lord, predictive combat and player expectations
> > >
> > > Now the only thing that even remotely resembles a gameplay mechanic would be predictive combat, which halo 5 doesn’t have partly because of sprint
> > >
> > > there’s no way to predict when an enemy is sprinting and when they aren’t so that doesn’t lend to the argument
> > >
> > > moving on to the post he linked
> > > it reads the following
> > >
> > > “I think sprint is important part of the game now and should stay. I dont know why it really matters in campaign. It allows you to escape easier for one so i dont know why you would want it removed. Kinda why its essential in the game now. Being able to get around faster and having the choice of sprinting around and running around factor a ton into if you run into a fight. For example most time if im running around a corner and a guy is right in my face and he was not sprinting i will likely die since you cant fire from hip while running. So it matters in a game-play what you choose to do. Think it should stay.”
> > >
> > > So to recap this we’ve got moving around faster, escape easier and sprinting around
> > >
> > > remind me how this isn’t a “you move faster” argument
> > >
> > > As for josh Holmes (you know the guy that lied about data centres)
> > >
> > > As a Spartan, it makes sense that you can push yourself in a situation where survival is imperative. It’s an action that feels natural in the context of a firefight. It’s the extra gear that a Spartan draws upon if they focus purely on mobility and speed.
> > > It creates opportunities and meaningful choices on offense and defense. On offense you can commit to an aggressive push or flank at a slight cost to weapon readiness. On defense, you can try for a rapid retreat but it carries the trade-off of stalling your shield recharge. Should you be able to escape from a situation where you are over-matched or have lost the upper hand? Yes, in a skillful manner (using mobility and spatial awareness to your advantage) and so long as your opponent has opportunity to counter using their own skills. The key for us has been to balance the potential escapability of sprint with mechanics like shield recharge and sprint ramp-up, while maintaining a sprint mechanic that feels good. This is something that we will continue to focus on post-beta as this careful balance is so important.
> > > Sprint is also an action that the vast majority of Halo players expect to be able to utilize in both an offensive and defensive context. I know that this community does not feel that way (or likely believes that statement to be accurate), but the larger Halo community is very diverse and we are building a game for an audience with many different perspectives represented amongst them. Within that larger audience, most people expect to be able to sprint. Particularly as this is the third Halo game to feature the mechanic.
> > > Another important consideration for us is to keep the core play experience as consistent as possible between Campaign, Arena, and the larger MP experiences that we are building. We feel that sprint, done right, works well in Arena. I know that’s a point of significant contention amongst this community. Sprint also works tremendously well in the context of those other experiences that I mentioned. When a player crosses over from Campaign to Arena, or from Arena to big team MP, we want the mechanics to translate across consistently. It’s jarring to become accustomed to a core mechanic only to have it disappear, or vice versa. That’s something that we want to avoid.
> > >
> > > All of these points were were present and better implemented in H3 without the use of sprint and amounts to nothing more than the lead dev trying to justify (poorly) sprints inclusion
> >
> >
> > So you’re saying that all those individual points that you’ve just argued go beyond “I like having sprint in Halo,”?? That’s why I linked them in the first place, you tried to claim you had yet to see any other arguments about sprint in this thread and yet you just took an enormous post to go back through and respond to a few of Josh Holmes’ pro sprint points and a few of mine… I’ve already answered those points with counter after counter so I certainly disagree with your counters here but the point in linking them wasn’t to try and reopen the discussion about what’s already been debated with the same old points… The point in linking those pro sprint points is exactly what you’ve just proven- there have indeed been multiple points to support keeping sprint in Halo beyond simply stating “I like sprint.”
>
>
> …what counter???
> i still don’t see a counter here
> your points were immersion, lore predictive combat and player expectation
>
> these are not counters to gameplay mechanic based arguments against sprint…
>
> the post you linked literally said “escape easier move faster”
> that was the base of the “counter”
>
> and josh holmes did not cite game play mechanics as his reasons to include it
> actually read his justifications for sprint
> all of the things he mentioned are possible in H3 and done better I might add
>
> so again I am asking for actual gameplay mechanic based arguments as to why sprint enriches halo and makes it a better experience that doesn’t include personal preference and “you move faster” because this is literally all you’ve said
>
> also and one more time
>
> eliminate sprint increase FOV and increase base movement speed to 110-115%
>
> if you do this both both pro and anti sprinters should in theory be happy

Part of the draw of sprint, and something Sin has mentioned several times throughout this thread, is the variety that the.different movement speeds give you, and how it is a tactical decision to use sprint vs not use it. That can’t be achieved nearly as profoundly with solely a single,
increased BMS, other than crouching, which is a 3rd movement speed that has overall been ignored on this thread.

Though doI suppose you can not push down on the thumb stick at full speed, but still not quite the same effect.

> 2625759425619671;11684:
> > 2533274832130936;11679:
> > > 2625759425619671;11674:
> > > > 2533274832130936;11671:
> > > > Right so I want to actually go through sin’s arguments here
> > > > point by point
> > > >
> > > > he said that his reasons for liking them were immersion, lord, predictive combat and player expectations
> > > >
> > > > Now the only thing that even remotely resembles a gameplay mechanic would be predictive combat, which halo 5 doesn’t have partly because of sprint
> > > >
> > > > there’s no way to predict when an enemy is sprinting and when they aren’t so that doesn’t lend to the argument
> > > >
> > > > moving on to the post he linked
> > > > it reads the following
> > > >
> > > > “I think sprint is important part of the game now and should stay. I dont know why it really matters in campaign. It allows you to escape easier for one so i dont know why you would want it removed. Kinda why its essential in the game now. Being able to get around faster and having the choice of sprinting around and running around factor a ton into if you run into a fight. For example most time if im running around a corner and a guy is right in my face and he was not sprinting i will likely die since you cant fire from hip while running. So it matters in a game-play what you choose to do. Think it should stay.”
> > > >
> > > > So to recap this we’ve got moving around faster, escape easier and sprinting around
> > > >
> > > > remind me how this isn’t a “you move faster” argument
> > > >
> > > > As for josh Holmes (you know the guy that lied about data centres)
> > > >
> > > > As a Spartan, it makes sense that you can push yourself in a situation where survival is imperative. It’s an action that feels natural in the context of a firefight. It’s the extra gear that a Spartan draws upon if they focus purely on mobility and speed.
> > > > It creates opportunities and meaningful choices on offense and defense. On offense you can commit to an aggressive push or flank at a slight cost to weapon readiness. On defense, you can try for a rapid retreat but it carries the trade-off of stalling your shield recharge. Should you be able to escape from a situation where you are over-matched or have lost the upper hand? Yes, in a skillful manner (using mobility and spatial awareness to your advantage) and so long as your opponent has opportunity to counter using their own skills. The key for us has been to balance the potential escapability of sprint with mechanics like shield recharge and sprint ramp-up, while maintaining a sprint mechanic that feels good. This is something that we will continue to focus on post-beta as this careful balance is so important.
> > > > Sprint is also an action that the vast majority of Halo players expect to be able to utilize in both an offensive and defensive context. I know that this community does not feel that way (or likely believes that statement to be accurate), but the larger Halo community is very diverse and we are building a game for an audience with many different perspectives represented amongst them. Within that larger audience, most people expect to be able to sprint. Particularly as this is the third Halo game to feature the mechanic.
> > > > Another important consideration for us is to keep the core play experience as consistent as possible between Campaign, Arena, and the larger MP experiences that we are building. We feel that sprint, done right, works well in Arena. I know that’s a point of significant contention amongst this community. Sprint also works tremendously well in the context of those other experiences that I mentioned. When a player crosses over from Campaign to Arena, or from Arena to big team MP, we want the mechanics to translate across consistently. It’s jarring to become accustomed to a core mechanic only to have it disappear, or vice versa. That’s something that we want to avoid.
> > > >
> > > > All of these points were were present and better implemented in H3 without the use of sprint and amounts to nothing more than the lead dev trying to justify (poorly) sprints inclusion
> > >
> > >
> > > So you’re saying that all those individual points that you’ve just argued go beyond “I like having sprint in Halo,”?? That’s why I linked them in the first place, you tried to claim you had yet to see any other arguments about sprint in this thread and yet you just took an enormous post to go back through and respond to a few of Josh Holmes’ pro sprint points and a few of mine… I’ve already answered those points with counter after counter so I certainly disagree with your counters here but the point in linking them wasn’t to try and reopen the discussion about what’s already been debated with the same old points… The point in linking those pro sprint points is exactly what you’ve just proven- there have indeed been multiple points to support keeping sprint in Halo beyond simply stating “I like sprint.”
> >
> >
> > …what counter???
> > i still don’t see a counter here
> > your points were immersion, lore predictive combat and player expectation…
> >
> > If you do this both both pro and anti sprinters should in theory be happy
>
>
> I didn’t link those points to get into another argument with you about them. As stated, they have already been brought up and argued in this thread multiple times before.
>
> I linked those points because you stated that you have yet to see any reasons why sprint should stay in Halo beyond “I like having sprint,” but those pro sprint points have been provided and discussed at length in this thread… By trying to go through and counter all those points once again you have only further demonstrated that you actually know that multiple pro sprint opinions have been provided in this thread, you just disagree with them. And no, anti sprinters will absolutely not “be happy,” with any pro sprint opinions provided- I can guarantee you that anti sprint diehards will go after each and every pro sprint point provided as they already have done so many times before in this thread (no matter how “mechanically grounded,” the pro sprint points may be.

SiN SHOOT2KILL I would like to know a few things before I leave you alone. And please dont link me to anything you’ve previously said.

What does sprint add that couldn’t be done in previous games?

How does sprint benefit the player?

Why do Josh Holmes opinions merit more credibility than thousands of other people?I look forward to hearing from you.

P.S Im certain you saw this and chose to ignore it, if thats the case then do you not have any valid answers to these questions?

> 2625759425619671;11684:
> > 2533274832130936;11679:
> > > 2625759425619671;11674:
> > > > 2533274832130936;11671:
> > > > Right so I want to actually go through sin’s arguments here
> > > > point by point
> > > >
> > > > he said that his reasons for liking them were immersion, lord, predictive combat and player expectations
> > > >
> > > > Now the only thing that even remotely resembles a gameplay mechanic would be predictive combat, which halo 5 doesn’t have partly because of sprint
> > > >
> > > > there’s no way to predict when an enemy is sprinting and when they aren’t so that doesn’t lend to the argument
> > > >
> > > > moving on to the post he linked
> > > > it reads the following
> > > >
> > > > “I think sprint is important part of the game now and should stay. I dont know why it really matters in campaign. It allows you to escape easier for one so i dont know why you would want it removed. Kinda why its essential in the game now. Being able to get around faster and having the choice of sprinting around and running around factor a ton into if you run into a fight. For example most time if im running around a corner and a guy is right in my face and he was not sprinting i will likely die since you cant fire from hip while running. So it matters in a game-play what you choose to do. Think it should stay.”
> > > >
> > > > So to recap this we’ve got moving around faster, escape easier and sprinting around
> > > >
> > > > remind me how this isn’t a “you move faster” argument
> > > >
> > > > As for josh Holmes (you know the guy that lied about data centres)
> > > >
> > > > As a Spartan, it makes sense that you can push yourself in a situation where survival is imperative. It’s an action that feels natural in the context of a firefight. It’s the extra gear that a Spartan draws upon if they focus purely on mobility and speed.
> > > > It creates opportunities and meaningful choices on offense and defense. On offense you can commit to an aggressive push or flank at a slight cost to weapon readiness. On defense, you can try for a rapid retreat but it carries the trade-off of stalling your shield recharge. Should you be able to escape from a situation where you are over-matched or have lost the upper hand? Yes, in a skillful manner (using mobility and spatial awareness to your advantage) and so long as your opponent has opportunity to counter using their own skills. The key for us has been to balance the potential escapability of sprint with mechanics like shield recharge and sprint ramp-up, while maintaining a sprint mechanic that feels good. This is something that we will continue to focus on post-beta as this careful balance is so important.
> > > > Sprint is also an action that the vast majority of Halo players expect to be able to utilize in both an offensive and defensive context. I know that this community does not feel that way (or likely believes that statement to be accurate), but the larger Halo community is very diverse and we are building a game for an audience with many different perspectives represented amongst them. Within that larger audience, most people expect to be able to sprint. Particularly as this is the third Halo game to feature the mechanic.
> > > > Another important consideration for us is to keep the core play experience as consistent as possible between Campaign, Arena, and the larger MP experiences that we are building. We feel that sprint, done right, works well in Arena. I know that’s a point of significant contention amongst this community. Sprint also works tremendously well in the context of those other experiences that I mentioned. When a player crosses over from Campaign to Arena, or from Arena to big team MP, we want the mechanics to translate across consistently. It’s jarring to become accustomed to a core mechanic only to have it disappear, or vice versa. That’s something that we want to avoid.
> > > >
> > > > All of these points were were present and better implemented in H3 without the use of sprint and amounts to nothing more than the lead dev trying to justify (poorly) sprints inclusion
> > >
> > >
> > > So you’re saying that all those individual points that you’ve just argued go beyond “I like having sprint in Halo,”?? That’s why I linked them in the first place, you tried to claim you had yet to see any other arguments about sprint in this thread and yet you just took an enormous post to go back through and respond to a few of Josh Holmes’ pro sprint points and a few of mine… I’ve already answered those points with counter after counter so I certainly disagree with your counters here but the point in linking them wasn’t to try and reopen the discussion about what’s already been debated with the same old points… The point in linking those pro sprint points is exactly what you’ve just proven- there have indeed been multiple points to support keeping sprint in Halo beyond simply stating “I like sprint.”
> >
> >
> > …what counter???
> > i still don’t see a counter here
> > your points were immersion, lore predictive combat and player expectation…
> >
> > If you do this both both pro and anti sprinters should in theory be happy
>
>
> I didn’t link those points to get into another argument with you about them. As stated, they have already been brought up and argued in this thread multiple times before.
>
> I linked those points because you stated that you have yet to see any reasons why sprint should stay in Halo beyond “I like having sprint,” but those pro sprint points have been provided and discussed at length in this thread… By trying to go through and counter all those points once again you have only further demonstrated that you actually know that multiple pro sprint opinions have been provided in this thread, you just disagree with them. And no, anti sprinters will absolutely not “be happy,” with any pro sprint opinions provided- I can guarantee you that anti sprint diehards will go after each and every pro sprint point provided as they already have done so many times before in this thread (no matter how “mechanically grounded,” the pro sprint points may be.

…nope…
Im done…
done…
This is like talking to a brick wall

those aren’t counters, they don’t qualify as counters because again thy amount to “sprint makes you go faster” and “I like sprint we should keep it”
those are not technical arguments for the inclusion of sprint

ive repeatedly asked for arguments other those Those things and not only have you failed to provide any but you keep overlooking my caveat and you do so because you personally don’t like the idea even tho is fixes everything sprint breaks so one more time in bold capitals so you can see it

REMOVE SPRINT COMPLETELY
INCREASE FOV
INCREASE BASE MOVEMENT SPEED TO 100-115%

sprint is not necessary
and you can argue semantics all you’d like

> 2533274913913392;11685:
> > 2533274832130936;11679:
> > > 2625759425619671;11674:
> > > > 2533274832130936;11671:
> > > > Right so I want to actually go through sin’s arguments here
> > > > point by point
> > > >
> > > > he said that his reasons for liking them were immersion, lord, predictive combat and player expectations
> > > >
> > > > Now the only thing that even remotely resembles a gameplay mechanic would be predictive combat, which halo 5 doesn’t have partly because of sprint
> > > >
> > > > there’s no way to predict when an enemy is sprinting and when they aren’t so that doesn’t lend to the argument
> > > >
> > > > moving on to the post he linked
> > > > it reads the following
> > > >
> > > > “I think sprint is important part of the game now and should stay. I dont know why it really matters in campaign. It allows you to escape easier for one so i dont know why you would want it removed. Kinda why its essential in the game now. Being able to get around faster and having the choice of sprinting around and running around factor a ton into if you run into a fight. For example most time if im running around a corner and a guy is right in my face and he was not sprinting i will likely die since you cant fire from hip while running. So it matters in a game-play what you choose to do. Think it should stay.”
> > > >
> > > > So to recap this we’ve got moving around faster, escape easier and sprinting around
> > > >
> > > > remind me how this isn’t a “you move faster” argument
> > > >
> > > > As for josh Holmes (you know the guy that lied about data centres)
> > > >
> > > > As a Spartan, it makes sense that you can push yourself in a situation where survival is imperative. It’s an action that feels natural in the context of a firefight. It’s the extra gear that a Spartan draws upon if they focus purely on mobility and speed.
> > > > It creates opportunities and meaningful choices on offense and defense. On offense you can commit to an aggressive push or flank at a slight cost to weapon readiness. On defense, you can try for a rapid retreat but it carries the trade-off of stalling your shield recharge. Should you be able to escape from a situation where you are over-matched or have lost the upper hand? Yes, in a skillful manner (using mobility and spatial awareness to your advantage) and so long as your opponent has opportunity to counter using their own skills. The key for us has been to balance the potential escapability of sprint with mechanics like shield recharge and sprint ramp-up, while maintaining a sprint mechanic that feels good. This is something that we will continue to focus on post-beta as this careful balance is so important.
> > > > Sprint is also an action that the vast majority of Halo players expect to be able to utilize in both an offensive and defensive context. I know that this community does not feel that way (or likely believes that statement to be accurate), but the larger Halo community is very diverse and we are building a game for an audience with many different perspectives represented amongst them. Within that larger audience, most people expect to be able to sprint. Particularly as this is the third Halo game to feature the mechanic.
> > > > Another important consideration for us is to keep the core play experience as consistent as possible between Campaign, Arena, and the larger MP experiences that we are building. We feel that sprint, done right, works well in Arena. I know that’s a point of significant contention amongst this community. Sprint also works tremendously well in the context of those other experiences that I mentioned. When a player crosses over from Campaign to Arena, or from Arena to big team MP, we want the mechanics to translate across consistently. It’s jarring to become accustomed to a core mechanic only to have it disappear, or vice versa. That’s something that we want to avoid.
> > > >
> > > > All of these points were were present and better implemented in H3 without the use of sprint and amounts to nothing more than the lead dev trying to justify (poorly) sprints inclusion
> > >
> > >
> > > So you’re saying that all those individual points that you’ve just argued go beyond “I like having sprint in Halo,”?? That’s why I linked them in the first place, you tried to claim you had yet to see any other arguments about sprint in this thread and yet you just took an enormous post to go back through and respond to a few of Josh Holmes’ pro sprint points and a few of mine… I’ve already answered those points with counter after counter so I certainly disagree with your counters here but the point in linking them wasn’t to try and reopen the discussion about what’s already been debated with the same old points… The point in linking those pro sprint points is exactly what you’ve just proven- there have indeed been multiple points to support keeping sprint in Halo beyond simply stating “I like sprint.”
> >
> >
> > …what counter???
> > i still don’t see a counter here
> > your points were immersion, lore predictive combat and player expectation
> >
> > these are not counters to gameplay mechanic based arguments against sprint…
> >
> > the post you linked literally said “escape easier move faster”
> > that was the base of the “counter”
> >
> > and josh holmes did not cite game play mechanics as his reasons to include it
> > actually read his justifications for sprint
> > all of the things he mentioned are possible in H3 and done better I might add
> >
> > so again I am asking for actual gameplay mechanic based arguments as to why sprint enriches halo and makes it a better experience that doesn’t include personal preference and “you move faster” because this is literally all you’ve said
> >
> > also and one more time
> >
> > eliminate sprint increase FOV and increase base movement speed to 110-115%
> >
> > if you do this both both pro and anti sprinters should in theory be happy
>
>
> Part of the draw of sprint, and something Sin has mentioned several times throughout this thread, is the variety that the.different movement speeds give you, and how it is a tactical decision to use sprint vs not use it. That can’t be achieved nearly as profoundly with solely a single,
> increased BMS, other than crouching, which is a 3rd movement speed that has overall been ignored on this thread.
>
> Though doI suppose you can not push down on the thumb stick at full speed, but still not quite the same effect.

How are varying movement speeds outside of crouch beneficial to gameplay?

if there was no sprint the maps wouldn’t be blown out which means no mass sections of dead space to traverse through which means less need for massive amounts of bullet magnetism which means less need for precision weapons having shorter RRRs…

spriting isnt tactical
its sole purpose is to get you somewhere faster…
well
eliminate sprint, buff movement speed make maps smaller and there ya go

EDIT: maybe that’s part of the problem you said “part of the draw to sprint”
halo should have gimmicks
if you need something to “draw” you towards a game then you’ve made the wrong game

> 2533274832130936;11688:
> > 2533274913913392;11685:
> > > 2533274832130936;11679:
> > > > 2625759425619671;11674:
> > > > > 2533274832130936;11671:
> > > > > Right so I want to actually go through sin’s arguments here
> > > > > point by point
> > > > >
> > > > > he said that his reasons for liking them were immersion, lord, predictive combat and player expectations
> > > > >
> > > > > Now the only thing that even remotely resembles a gameplay mechanic would be predictive combat, which halo 5 doesn’t have partly because of sprint
> > > > >
> > > > > there’s no way to predict when an enemy is sprinting and when they aren’t so that doesn’t lend to the argument
> > > > >
> > > > > moving on to the post he linked
> > > > > it reads the following
> > > > >
> > > > > “I think sprint is important part of the game now and should stay. I dont know why it really matters in campaign. It allows you to escape easier for one so i dont know why you would want it removed. Kinda why its essential in the game now. Being able to get around faster and having the choice of sprinting around and running around factor a ton into if you run into a fight. For example most time if im running around a corner and a guy is right in my face and he was not sprinting i will likely die since you cant fire from hip while running. So it matters in a game-play what you choose to do. Think it should stay.”
> > > > >
> > > > > So to recap this we’ve got moving around faster, escape easier and sprinting around
> > > > >
> > > > > remind me how this isn’t a “you move faster” argument
> > > > >
> > > > > As for josh Holmes (you know the guy that lied about data centres)
> > > > >
> > > > > As a Spartan, it makes sense that you can push yourself in a situation where survival is imperative. It’s an action that feels natural in the context of a firefight. It’s the extra gear that a Spartan draws upon if they focus purely on mobility and speed.
> > > > > It creates opportunities and meaningful choices on offense and defense. On offense you can commit to an aggressive push or flank at a slight cost to weapon readiness. On defense, you can try for a rapid retreat but it carries the trade-off of stalling your shield recharge. Should you be able to escape from a situation where you are over-matched or have lost the upper hand? Yes, in a skillful manner (using mobility and spatial awareness to your advantage) and so long as your opponent has opportunity to counter using their own skills. The key for us has been to balance the potential escapability of sprint with mechanics like shield recharge and sprint ramp-up, while maintaining a sprint mechanic that feels good. This is something that we will continue to focus on post-beta as this careful balance is so important.
> > > > > Sprint is also an action that the vast majority of Halo players expect to be able to utilize in both an offensive and defensive context. I know that this community does not feel that way (or likely believes that statement to be accurate), but the larger Halo community is very diverse and we are building a game for an audience with many different perspectives represented amongst them. Within that larger audience, most people expect to be able to sprint. Particularly as this is the third Halo game to feature the mechanic.
> > > > > Another important consideration for us is to keep the core play experience as consistent as possible between Campaign, Arena, and the larger MP experiences that we are building. We feel that sprint, done right, works well in Arena. I know that’s a point of significant contention amongst this community. Sprint also works tremendously well in the context of those other experiences that I mentioned. When a player crosses over from Campaign to Arena, or from Arena to big team MP, we want the mechanics to translate across consistently. It’s jarring to become accustomed to a core mechanic only to have it disappear, or vice versa. That’s something that we want to avoid.
> > > > >
> > > > > All of these points were were present and better implemented in H3 without the use of sprint and amounts to nothing more than the lead dev trying to justify (poorly) sprints inclusion
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > So you’re saying that all those individual points that you’ve just argued go beyond “I like having sprint in Halo,”?? That’s why I linked them in the first place, you tried to claim you had yet to see any other arguments about sprint in this thread and yet you just took an enormous post to go back through and respond to a few of Josh Holmes’ pro sprint points and a few of mine… I’ve already answered those points with counter after counter so I certainly disagree with your counters here but the point in linking them wasn’t to try and reopen the discussion about what’s already been debated with the same old points… The point in linking those pro sprint points is exactly what you’ve just proven- there have indeed been multiple points to support keeping sprint in Halo beyond simply stating “I like sprint.”
> > >
> > >
> > > …what counter???
> > > i still don’t see a counter here
> > > your points were immersion, lore predictive combat and player expectation
> > >
> > > these are not counters to gameplay mechanic based arguments against sprint…
> >
> >
> > Part of the draw of sprint, and something Sin has mentioned several times throughout this thread, is the variety that the.different movement speeds give you, and how it is a tactical decision to use sprint vs not use it. That can’t be achieved nearly as profoundly with solely a single,
> > increased BMS, other than crouching, which is a 3rd movement speed that has overall been ignored on this thread.
> >
> > Though doI suppose you can not push down on the thumb stick at full speed, but still not quite the same effect.
>
>
> How are varying movement speeds outside of crouch beneficial to gameplay?
>
>
> spriting isnt tactical
> its sole purpose is to get you somewhere faster…

Look bud, you’re the one who a) stated that these pro sprint opinions haven’t been made in this thread (they have) and b) tried to lump all pro sprint points into meaning “I like sprint,” which is also untrue. Don’t freak out on people for providing you with reasons that you’re asking to see in this thread either.

> 2625759425619671;11689:
> > 2533274832130936;11688:
> > > 2533274913913392;11685:
> > > > 2533274832130936;11679:
> > > > > 2625759425619671;11674:
> > > > > > 2533274832130936;11671:
> > > > > > Right so I want to actually go through sin’s arguments here
> > > > > > point by point
> > > > > >
> > > > > > he said that his reasons for liking them were immersion, lord, predictive combat and player expectations
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Now the only thing that even remotely resembles a gameplay mechanic would be predictive combat, which halo 5 doesn’t have partly because of sprint
> > > > > >
> > > > > > there’s no way to predict when an enemy is sprinting and when they aren’t so that doesn’t lend to the argument
> > > > > >
> > > > > > moving on to the post he linked
> > > > > > it reads the following
> > > > > >
> > > > > > “I think sprint is important part of the game now and should stay. I dont know why it really matters in campaign. It allows you to escape easier for one so i dont know why you would want it removed. Kinda why its essential in the game now. Being able to get around faster and having the choice of sprinting around and running around factor a ton into if you run into a fight. For example most time if im running around a corner and a guy is right in my face and he was not sprinting i will likely die since you cant fire from hip while running. So it matters in a game-play what you choose to do. Think it should stay.”
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So to recap this we’ve got moving around faster, escape easier and sprinting around
> > > > > >
> > > > > > remind me how this isn’t a “you move faster” argument
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As for josh Holmes (you know the guy that lied about data centres)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As a Spartan, it makes sense that you can push yourself in a situation where survival is imperative. It’s an action that feels natural in the context of a firefight. It’s the extra gear that a Spartan draws upon if they focus purely on mobility and speed.
> > > > > > It creates opportunities and meaningful choices on offense and defense. On offense you can commit to an aggressive push or flank at a slight cost to weapon readiness. On defense, you can try for a rapid retreat but it carries the trade-off of stalling your shield recharge. Should you be able to escape from a situation where you are over-matched or have lost the upper hand? Yes, in a skillful manner (using mobility and spatial awareness to your advantage) and so long as your opponent has opportunity to counter using their own skills. The key for us has been to balance the potential escapability of sprint with mechanics like shield recharge and sprint ramp-up, while maintaining a sprint mechanic that feels good. This is something that we will continue to focus on post-beta as this careful balance is so important.
> > > > > > Sprint is also an action that the vast majority of Halo players expect to be able to utilize in both an offensive and defensive context. I know that this community does not feel that way (or likely believes that statement to be accurate), but the larger Halo community is very diverse and we are building a game for an audience with many different perspectives represented amongst them. Within that larger audience, most people expect to be able to sprint. Particularly as this is the third Halo game to feature the mechanic.
> > > > > > Another important consideration for us is to keep the core play experience as consistent as possible between Campaign, Arena, and the larger MP experiences that we are building. We feel that sprint, done right, works well in Arena. I know that’s a point of significant contention amongst this community. Sprint also works tremendously well in the context of those other experiences that I mentioned. When a player crosses over from Campaign to Arena, or from Arena to big team MP, we want the mechanics to translate across consistently. It’s jarring to become accustomed to a core mechanic only to have it disappear, or vice versa. That’s something that we want to avoid.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > All of these points were were present and better implemented in H3 without the use of sprint and amounts to nothing more than the lead dev trying to justify (poorly) sprints inclusion
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > So you’re saying that all those individual points that you’ve just argued go beyond “I like having sprint in Halo,”?? That’s why I linked them in the first place, you tried to claim you had yet to see any other arguments about sprint in this thread and yet you just took an enormous post to go back through and respond to a few of Josh Holmes’ pro sprint points and a few of mine… I’ve already answered those points with counter after counter so I certainly disagree with your counters here but the point in linking them wasn’t to try and reopen the discussion about what’s already been debated with the same old points… The point in linking those pro sprint points is exactly what you’ve just proven- there have indeed been multiple points to support keeping sprint in Halo beyond simply stating “I like sprint.”
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > …what counter???
> > > > i still don’t see a counter here
> > > > your points were immersion, lore predictive combat and player expectation
> > > >
> > > > these are not counters to gameplay mechanic based arguments against sprint…
> > >
> > >
> > > Part of the draw of sprint, and something Sin has mentioned several times throughout this thread, is the variety that the.different movement speeds give you, and how it is a tactical decision to use sprint vs not use it. That can’t be achieved nearly as profoundly with solely a single,
> > > increased BMS, other than crouching, which is a 3rd movement speed that has overall been ignored on this thread.
> > >
> > > Though doI suppose you can not push down on the thumb stick at full speed, but still not quite the same effect.
> >
> >
> > How are varying movement speeds outside of crouch beneficial to gameplay?
> >
> > if there was no sprint the maps wouldn’t be blown out which means no mass sections of dead space to traverse through which means less need for massive amounts of bullet magnetism which means less need for precision weapons having shorter RRRs…
> >
> > spriting isnt tactical
> > its sole purpose is to get you somewhere faster…
>
>
> Look bud, you’re the one who a) stated that these pro sprint opinions haven’t been made in this thread (they have) and b) tried to lump all pro sprint points into meaning “I like sprint,” which is also untrue. Don’t freak out on people for providing you with reasons that you’re asking to see in this thread either.

Didn’t freak out, I simply countered his post with actual facts pertaining to the effect sprint has on the game
I’ve given actual gameplay reasons as to why sprint hurts halos gameplay and design

I never said pro sprint opinions haven’t been made on this thread
ive seen lots of pro sprint opinions thrown around, sadly none of them have any actual basis as to why sprint improves halo which is actually what I asked for

[deleted]

> 2533274832130936;11690:
> > 2625759425619671;11689:
> > > 2533274832130936;11688:
> > > > 2533274913913392;11685:
> > > > > 2533274832130936;11679:
> > > > > > 2625759425619671;11674:
> > > > > > > 2533274832130936;11671:
> > > > > > > Right so I want to actually go through sin’s arguments here
> > > > > > > point by point
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > he said that his reasons for liking them were immersion, lord, predictive combat and player expectations
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Now the only thing that even remotely resembles a gameplay mechanic would be predictive combat, which halo 5 doesn’t have partly because of sprint
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > there’s no way to predict when an enemy is sprinting and when they aren’t so that doesn’t lend to the argument
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > moving on to the post he linked
> > > > > > > it reads the following
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > “I think sprint is important part of the game now and should stay. I dont know why it really matters in campaign. It allows you to escape easier for one so i dont know why you would want it removed. Kinda why its essential in the game now. Being able to get around faster and having the choice of sprinting around and running around factor a ton into if you run into a fight. For example most time if im running around a corner and a guy is right in my face and he was not sprinting i will likely die since you cant fire from hip while running. So it matters in a game-play what you choose to do. Think it should stay.”
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So to recap this we’ve got moving around faster, escape easier and sprinting around
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > remind me how this isn’t a “you move faster” argument
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > As for josh Holmes (you know the guy that lied about data centres)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > As a Spartan, it makes sense that you can push yourself in a situation where survival is imperative. It’s an action that feels natural in the context of a firefight. It’s the extra gear that a Spartan draws upon if they focus purely on mobility and speed.
> > > > > > > It creates opportunities and meaningful choices on offense and defense. On offense you can commit to an aggressive push or flank at a slight cost to weapon readiness. On defense, you can try for a rapid retreat but it carries the trade-off of stalling your shield recharge. Should you be able to escape from a situation where you are over-matched or have lost the upper hand? Yes, in a skillful manner (using mobility and spatial awareness to your advantage) and so long as your opponent has opportunity to counter using their own skills. The key for us has been to balance the potential escapability of sprint with mechanics like shield recharge and sprint ramp-up, while maintaining a sprint mechanic that feels good. This is something that we will continue to focus on post-beta as this careful balance is so important.
> > > > > > > Sprint is also an action that the vast majority of Halo players expect to be able to utilize in both an offensive and defensive context. I know that this community does not feel that way (or likely believes that statement to be accurate), but the larger Halo community is very diverse and we are building a game for an audience with many different perspectives represented amongst them. Within that larger audience, most people expect to be able to sprint. Particularly as this is the third Halo game to feature the mechanic.
> > > > > > > Another important consideration for us is to keep the core play experience as consistent as possible between Campaign, Arena, and the larger MP experiences that we are building. We feel that sprint, done right, works well in Arena. I know that’s a point of significant contention amongst this community. Sprint also works tremendously well in the context of those other experiences that I mentioned. When a player crosses over from Campaign to Arena, or from Arena to big team MP, we want the mechanics to translate across consistently. It’s jarring to become accustomed to a core mechanic only to have it disappear, or vice versa. That’s something that we want to avoid.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > All of these points were were present and better implemented in H3 without the use of sprint and amounts to nothing more than the lead dev trying to justify (poorly) sprints inclusion
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So you’re saying that all those individual points that you’ve just argued go beyond “I like having sprint in Halo,”?? That’s why I linked them in the first place, you tried to claim you had yet to see any other arguments about sprint in this thread and yet you just took an enormous post to go back through and respond to a few of Josh Holmes’ pro sprint points and a few of mine… I’ve already answered those points with counter after counter so I certainly disagree with your counters here but the point in linking them wasn’t to try and reopen the discussion about what’s already been debated with the same old points… The point in linking those pro sprint points is exactly what you’ve just proven- there have indeed been multiple points to support keeping sprint in Halo beyond simply stating “I like sprint.”
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > …what counter???
> > > > > i still don’t see a counter here
> > > > > your points were immersion, lore predictive combat and player expectation
> > > > >
> > > > > these are not counters to gameplay mechanic based arguments against sprint…
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Part of the draw of sprint, and something Sin has mentioned several times throughout this thread, is the variety that the.different movement speeds give you, and how it is a tactical decision to use sprint vs not use it. That can’t be achieved nearly as profoundly with solely a single,
> > > > increased BMS, other than crouching, which is a 3rd movement speed that has overall been ignored on this thread.
> > > >
> > > > Though doI suppose you can not push down on the thumb stick at full speed, but still not quite the same effect.
> > >
> > >
> > > How are varying movement speeds outside of crouch beneficial to gameplay?
> >
> >
> > Look bud, you’re the one who a) stated that these pro sprint opinions haven’t been made in this thread (they have) and b) tried to lump all pro sprint points into meaning “I like sprint,” which is also untrue. Don’t freak out on people for providing you with reasons that you’re asking to see in this thread either.
>
>
> Didn’t freak out

You freaked out on me over this just the post prior when you opened with,
“…nope…
Im done…
done…
This is like talking to a brick wall,”

Then proceeded to post your anti sprint opinions again in all caps.

> 2533274832130936;11688:
> > 2533274913913392;11685:
> > > 2533274832130936;11679:
> > > > 2625759425619671;11674:
> > > > > 2533274832130936;11671:
> > > > > Right so I want to actually go through sin’s arguments here
> > > > > point by point
> > > > >
> > > > > he said that his reasons for liking them were immersion, lord, predictive combat and player expectations
> > > > >
> > > > > Now the only thing that even remotely resembles a gameplay mechanic would be predictive combat, which halo 5 doesn’t have partly because of sprint
> > > > >
> > > > > there’s no way to predict when an enemy is sprinting and when they aren’t so that doesn’t lend to the argument
> > > > >
> > > > > moving on to the post he linked
> > > > > it reads the following
> > > > >
> > > > > “I think sprint is important part of the game now and should stay. I dont know why it really matters in campaign. It allows you to escape easier for one so i dont know why you would want it removed. Kinda why its essential in the game now. Being able to get around faster and having the choice of sprinting around and running around factor a ton into if you run into a fight. For example most time if im running around a corner and a guy is right in my face and he was not sprinting i will likely die since you cant fire from hip while running. So it matters in a game-play what you choose to do. Think it should stay.”
> > > > >
> > > > > So to recap this we’ve got moving around faster, escape easier and sprinting around
> > > > >
> > > > > remind me how this isn’t a “you move faster” argument
> > > > >
> > > > > As for josh Holmes (you know the guy that lied about data centres)
> > > > >
> > > > > As a Spartan, it makes sense that you can push yourself in a situation where survival is imperative. It’s an action that feels natural in the context of a firefight. It’s the extra gear that a Spartan draws upon if they focus purely on mobility and speed.
> > > > > It creates opportunities and meaningful choices on offense and defense. On offense you can commit to an aggressive push or flank at a slight cost to weapon readiness. On defense, you can try for a rapid retreat but it carries the trade-off of stalling your shield recharge. Should you be able to escape from a situation where you are over-matched or have lost the upper hand? Yes, in a skillful manner (using mobility and spatial awareness to your advantage) and so long as your opponent has opportunity to counter using their own skills. The key for us has been to balance the potential escapability of sprint with mechanics like shield recharge and sprint ramp-up, while maintaining a sprint mechanic that feels good. This is something that we will continue to focus on post-beta as this careful balance is so important.
> > > > > Sprint is also an action that the vast majority of Halo players expect to be able to utilize in both an offensive and defensive context. I know that this community does not feel that way (or likely believes that statement to be accurate), but the larger Halo community is very diverse and we are building a game for an audience with many different perspectives represented amongst them. Within that larger audience, most people expect to be able to sprint. Particularly as this is the third Halo game to feature the mechanic.
> > > > > Another important consideration for us is to keep the core play experience as consistent as possible between Campaign, Arena, and the larger MP experiences that we are building. We feel that sprint, done right, works well in Arena. I know that’s a point of significant contention amongst this community. Sprint also works tremendously well in the context of those other experiences that I mentioned. When a player crosses over from Campaign to Arena, or from Arena to big team MP, we want the mechanics to translate across consistently. It’s jarring to become accustomed to a core mechanic only to have it disappear, or vice versa. That’s something that we want to avoid.
> > > > >
> > > > > All of these points were were present and better implemented in H3 without the use of sprint and amounts to nothing more than the lead dev trying to justify (poorly) sprints inclusion
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > So you’re saying that all those individual points that you’ve just argued go beyond “I like having sprint in Halo,”?? That’s why I linked them in the first place, you tried to claim you had yet to see any other arguments about sprint in this thread and yet you just took an enormous post to go back through and respond to a few of Josh Holmes’ pro sprint points and a few of mine… I’ve already answered those points with counter after counter so I certainly disagree with your counters here but the point in linking them wasn’t to try and reopen the discussion about what’s already been debated with the same old points… The point in linking those pro sprint points is exactly what you’ve just proven- there have indeed been multiple points to support keeping sprint in Halo beyond simply stating “I like sprint.”
> > >
> > >
> > > …what counter???
> > > i still don’t see a counter here
> > > your points were immersion, lore predictive combat and player expectation
> > >
> > > these are not counters to gameplay mechanic based arguments against sprint…
> > >
> > > the post you linked literally said “escape easier move faster”
> > > that was the base of the “counter”
> > >
> > > and josh holmes did not cite game play mechanics as his reasons to include it
> > > actually read his justifications for sprint
> > > all of the things he mentioned are possible in H3 and done better I might add
> > >
> > > so again I am asking for actual gameplay mechanic based arguments as to why sprint enriches halo and makes it a better experience that doesn’t include personal preference and “you move faster” because this is literally all you’ve said
> > >
> > > also and one more time
> > >
> > > eliminate sprint increase FOV and increase base movement speed to 110-115%
> > >
> > > if you do this both both pro and anti sprinters should in theory be happy
> >
> >
> > Part of the draw of sprint, and something Sin has mentioned several times throughout this thread, is the variety that the.different movement speeds give you, and how it is a tactical decision to use sprint vs not use it. That can’t be achieved nearly as profoundly with solely a single,
> > increased BMS, other than crouching, which is a 3rd movement speed that has overall been ignored on this thread.
> >
> > Though doI suppose you can not push down on the thumb stick at full speed, but still not quite the same effect.
>
>
> How are varying movement speeds outside of crouch beneficial to gameplay?
>
> if there was no sprint the maps wouldn’t be blown out which means no mass sections of dead space to traverse through which means less need for massive amounts of bullet magnetism which means less need for precision weapons having shorter RRRs…
>
> spriting isnt tactical
> its sole purpose is to get you somewhere faster…
> well
> eliminate sprint, buff movement speed make maps smaller and there ya go

Not to mention if a variety of speeds is so important to them, thrust also doubles as another speed and so does how hard you’re pressing the thumb stick.

It it just comes down to how they want to restrict the ability to shoot because they want the game to involve more chance. Obviously saying, “I do better when the game is like this” would be looked down on, so they can’t say that.

> 2625759425619671;11692:
> > 2533274832130936;11690:
> > > 2625759425619671;11689:
> > > > 2533274832130936;11688:
> > > > > 2533274913913392;11685:
> > > > > > 2533274832130936;11679:
> > > > > > > 2625759425619671;11674:
> > > > > > > > 2533274832130936;11671:
> > > > > > > > Right so I want to actually go through sin’s arguments here
> > > > > > > > point by point
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > he said that his reasons for liking them were immersion, lord, predictive combat and player expectations
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Now the only thing that even remotely resembles a gameplay mechanic would be predictive combat, which halo 5 doesn’t have partly because of sprint
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > there’s no way to predict when an enemy is sprinting and when they aren’t so that doesn’t lend to the argument
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > moving on to the post he linked
> > > > > > > > it reads the following
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > “I think sprint is important part of the game now and should stay. I dont know why it really matters in campaign. It allows you to escape easier for one so i dont know why you would want it removed. Kinda why its essential in the game now. Being able to get around faster and having the choice of sprinting around and running around factor a ton into if you run into a fight. For example most time if im running around a corner and a guy is right in my face and he was not sprinting i will likely die since you cant fire from hip while running. So it matters in a game-play what you choose to do. Think it should stay.”
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > So to recap this we’ve got moving around faster, escape easier and sprinting around
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > remind me how this isn’t a “you move faster” argument
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > As for josh Holmes (you know the guy that lied about data centres)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > As a Spartan, it makes sense that you can push yourself in a situation where survival is imperative. It’s an action that feels natural in the context of a firefight. It’s the extra gear that a Spartan draws upon if they focus purely on mobility and speed.
> > > > > > > > It creates opportunities and meaningful choices on offense and defense. On offense you can commit to an aggressive push or flank at a slight cost to weapon readiness. On defense, you can try for a rapid retreat but it carries the trade-off of stalling your shield recharge. Should you be able to escape from a situation where you are over-matched or have lost the upper hand? Yes, in a skillful manner (using mobility and spatial awareness to your advantage) and so long as your opponent has opportunity to counter using their own skills. The key for us has been to balance the potential escapability of sprint with mechanics like shield recharge and sprint ramp-up, while maintaining a sprint mechanic that feels good. This is something that we will continue to focus on post-beta as this careful balance is so important.
> > > > > > > > Sprint is also an action that the vast majority of Halo players expect to be able to utilize in both an offensive and defensive context. I know that this community does not feel that way (or likely believes that statement to be accurate), but the larger Halo community is very diverse and we are building a game for an audience with many different perspectives represented amongst them. Within that larger audience, most people expect to be able to sprint. Particularly as this is the third Halo game to feature the mechanic.
> > > > > > > > Another important consideration for us is to keep the core play experience as consistent as possible between Campaign, Arena, and the larger MP experiences that we are building. We feel that sprint, done right, works well in Arena. I know that’s a point of significant contention amongst this community. Sprint also works tremendously well in the context of those other experiences that I mentioned. When a player crosses over from Campaign to Arena, or from Arena to big team MP, we want the mechanics to translate across consistently. It’s jarring to become accustomed to a core mechanic only to have it disappear, or vice versa. That’s something that we want to avoid.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > All of these points were were present and better implemented in H3 without the use of sprint and amounts to nothing more than the lead dev trying to justify (poorly) sprints inclusion
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So you’re saying that all those individual points that you’ve just argued go beyond “I like having sprint in Halo,”?? That’s why I linked them in the first place, you tried to claim you had yet to see any other arguments about sprint in this thread and yet you just took an enormous post to go back through and respond to a few of Josh Holmes’ pro sprint points and a few of mine… I’ve already answered those points with counter after counter so I certainly disagree with your counters here but the point in linking them wasn’t to try and reopen the discussion about what’s already been debated with the same old points… The point in linking those pro sprint points is exactly what you’ve just proven- there have indeed been multiple points to support keeping sprint in Halo beyond simply stating “I like sprint.”
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > …what counter???
> > > > > > i still don’t see a counter here
> > > > > > your points were immersion, lore predictive combat and player expectation
> > > > > >
> > > > > > these are not counters to gameplay mechanic based arguments against sprint…
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Part of the draw of sprint, and something Sin has mentioned several times throughout this thread, is the variety that the.different movement speeds give you, and how it is a tactical decision to use sprint vs not use it. That can’t be achieved nearly as profoundly with solely a single,
> > > > > increased BMS, other than crouching, which is a 3rd movement speed that has overall been ignored on this thread.
> > > > >
> > > > > Though doI suppose you can not push down on the thumb stick at full speed, but still not quite the same effect.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > How are varying movement speeds outside of crouch beneficial to gameplay?
> > >
> > >
> > > Look bud, you’re the one who a) stated that these pro sprint opinions haven’t been made in this thread (they have) and b) tried to lump all pro sprint points into meaning “I like sprint,” which is also untrue. Don’t freak out on people for providing you with reasons that you’re asking to see in this thread either.
> >
> >
> > Didn’t freak out, I simply countered his post with actual facts pertaining to the effect sprint has on the game
> > I’ve given actual gameplay reasons as to why sprint hurts halos gameplay and design
> >
> > I never said pro sprint opinions haven’t been made on this thread
> > ive seen lots of pro sprint opinions thrown around, sadly none of them have any actual basis as to why sprint improves halo which is actually what I asked for
>
>
> You freaked out on me over this just the post prior when you opened with,
> “…nope…
> Im done…
> done…
> This is like talking to a brick wall,”
>
> Then proceeded to post your anti sprint opinions again in all caps.

Actually that wasn’t an opinion
again it would actually (not falsely) legitimately make halo faster
you don’t want to entertain the idea because it goes against what you personally want halo to be, and that’s the sole basis of your argument really
you like halo better with sprint so sprint should stay

there is nothing that sprint does that my suggestion doesn’t do better while eliminating all the negatives that go with sprint

and sorry to keep disagreeing with you but that wasn’t a freak out
that’s simple exasperation at what amounts to explaining to someone why the sky is blue just to have them tell you it’s purple

> 2535464451695009;11691:
> > 2625759425619671;11684:
> > > 2533274832130936;11679:
> > > > 2625759425619671;11674:
> > > > > 2533274832130936;11671:
> > > > > Right so I want to actually go through sin’s arguments here
> > > > > point by point
> > > > > he said that his reasons for liking them were immersion, lord, predictive combat and player expectations
> > > > > Now the only thing that even remotely resembles a gameplay mechanic would be predictive combat, which halo 5 doesn’t have partly because of sprint
> > > > > there’s no way to predict when an enemy is sprinting and when they aren’t so that doesn’t lend to the argument
> > > > > moving on to the post he linked
> > > > > it reads the following
> > > > > “I think sprint is important part of the game now and should stay. I dont know why it really matters in campaign. It allows you to escape easier for one so i dont know why you would want it removed. Kinda why its essential in the game now. Being able to get around faster and having the choice of sprinting around and running around factor a ton into if you run into a fight. For example most time if im running around a corner and a guy is right in my face and he was not sprinting i will likely die since you cant fire from hip while running. So it matters in a game-play what you choose to do. Think it should stay.”
> > > > > So to recap this we’ve got moving around faster, escape easier and sprinting around
> > > > > remind me how this isn’t a “you move faster” argument
> > > > > As for josh Holmes (you know the guy that lied about data centres)
> > > > > As a Spartan, it makes sense that you can push yourself in a situation where survival is imperative. It’s an action that feels natural in the context of a firefight. It’s the extra gear that a Spartan draws upon if they focus purely on mobility and speed.
> > > > > It creates opportunities and meaningful choices on offense and defense. On offense you can commit to an aggressive push or flank at a slight cost to weapon readiness. On defense, you can try for a rapid retreat but it carries the trade-off of stalling your shield recharge. Should you be able to escape from a situation where you are over-matched or have lost the upper hand? Yes, in a skillful manner (using mobility and spatial awareness to your advantage) and so long as your opponent has opportunity to counter using their own skills. The key for us has been to balance the potential escapability of sprint with mechanics like shield recharge and sprint ramp-up, while maintaining a sprint mechanic that feels good. This is something that we will continue to focus on post-beta as this careful balance is so important.
> > > > > Sprint is also an action that the vast majority of Halo players expect to be able to utilize in both an offensive and defensive context. I know that this community does not feel that way (or likely believes that statement to be accurate), but the larger Halo community is very diverse and we are building a game for an audience with many different perspectives represented amongst them. Within that larger audience, most people expect to be able to sprint. Particularly as this is the third Halo game to feature the mechanic.
> > > > > Another important consideration for us is to keep the core play experience as consistent as possible between Campaign, Arena, and the larger MP experiences that we are building. We feel that sprint, done right, works well in Arena. I know that’s a point of significant contention amongst this community. Sprint also works tremendously well in the context of those other experiences that I mentioned. When a player crosses over from Campaign to Arena, or from Arena to big team MP, we want the mechanics to translate across consistently. It’s jarring to become accustomed to a core mechanic only to have it disappear, or vice versa. That’s something that we want to avoid.
> > > > > All of these points were were present and better implemented in H3 without the use of sprint and amounts to nothing more than the lead dev trying to justify (poorly) sprints inclusion
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > So you’re saying that all those individual points that you’ve just argued go beyond “I like having sprint in Halo,”?? That’s why I linked them in the first place, you tried to claim you had yet to see any other arguments about sprint in this thread and yet you just took an enormous post to go back through and respond to a few of Josh Holmes’ pro sprint points and a few of mine… I’ve already answered those points with counter after counter so I certainly disagree with your counters here but the point in linking them wasn’t to try and reopen the discussion about what’s already been debated with the same old points… The point in linking those pro sprint points is exactly what you’ve just proven- there have indeed been multiple points to support keeping sprint in Halo beyond simply stating “I like sprint.”
> > >
> > >
> > > …what counter???
> > > i still don’t see a counter here
> > > your points were immersion, lore predictive combat and player expectation
> > > these are not counters to gameplay mechanic based arguments against sprint…
> >
> >
> > I didn’t link those points to get into another argument with you about them. As stated, they have already been brought up and argued in this thread multiple times before.
> > I linked those points because you stated that you have yet to see any reasons why sprint should stay in Halo beyond “I like having sprint,” but those pro sprint points have been provided and discussed at length in this thread… By trying to go through and counter all those points once again you have only further demonstrated that you actually know that multiple pro sprint opinions have been provided in this thread, you just disagree with them. And no, anti sprinters will absolutely not “be happy,” with any pro sprint opinions provided- I can guarantee you that anti sprint diehards will go after each and every pro sprint point provided as they already have done so many times before in this thread (no matter how “mechanically grounded,” the pro sprint points may be.
>
>
> You’re dodging the question again. This is why people think it’s so difficult to debate with you. As soon as someone says “Tell me a reason for X,” you respond with a linked post that tells nothing other than what you stated before they requested you to say something. Please, just give us a straight-to-the-point response and don’t answer if they don’t ask questions anymore.
> As soon as someone says “I kinda agree,” or “That’s fine” do you just stop responding to them? I asked you to give me gameplay examples, multiple times, of sprint helping you, yet you never responded to them. Why is that? Because I finally said something like “Oh, those reasons are ok I guess”? I still asked you a question. It would be courteous of you (which you said you are always giving other people) if you would just answer it and be done with it. That’s not courteous at all leaving people hanging like that. It’s like someone asking (but not as extreme as) “Is Tyrell dead” and you responding with a blank face and then walking away saying “Later, Blood.” That’s shady as -Yoink-, and I for sure wouldn’t talk to you no more if I knew you in real life because you just pulled some hella whack- -Yoink-, mark -Yoink- -Yoink-. I’m sorry, but I’m done with you dodging questions like they’re bullets. Just give me a straight response and be done with it. How has sprint helped or detriment you or your friends during gameplay? Did you escape last second in some firefights? Did you quickly flank the enemy while they were fighting your teammates? What did sprint do for your wins or losses?

Sweet zombie jesus
THANK YOU!!!

> 2533274832130936;11690:
> > 2625759425619671;11689:
> > > 2533274832130936;11688:
> > > > 2533274913913392;11685:
> > > > > 2533274832130936;11679:
> > > > > > 2625759425619671;11674:
> > > > > > > 2533274832130936;11671:
> > > > > > > Right so I want to actually go through sin’s arguments here
> > > > > > > point by point
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > he said that his reasons for liking them were immersion, lord, predictive combat and player expectations
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Now the only thing that even remotely resembles a gameplay mechanic would be predictive combat, which halo 5 doesn’t have partly because of sprint
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > there’s no way to predict when an enemy is sprinting and when they aren’t so that doesn’t lend to the argument
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > moving on to the post he linked
> > > > > > > it reads the following
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > “I think sprint is important part of the game now and should stay. I dont know why it really matters in campaign. It allows you to escape easier for one so i dont know why you would want it removed. Kinda why its essential in the game now. Being able to get around faster and having the choice of sprinting around and running around factor a ton into if you run into a fight. For example most time if im running around a corner and a guy is right in my face and he was not sprinting i will likely die since you cant fire from hip while running. So it matters in a game-play what you choose to do. Think it should stay.”
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So to recap this we’ve got moving around faster, escape easier and sprinting around
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > remind me how this isn’t a “you move faster” argument
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > As for josh Holmes (you know the guy that lied about data centres)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > As a Spartan, it makes sense that you can push yourself in a situation where survival is imperative. It’s an action that feels natural in the context of a firefight. It’s the extra gear that a Spartan draws upon if they focus purely on mobility and speed.
> > > > > > > It creates opportunities and meaningful choices on offense and defense. On offense you can commit to an aggressive push or flank at a slight cost to weapon readiness. On defense, you can try for a rapid retreat but it carries the trade-off of stalling your shield recharge. Should you be able to escape from a situation where you are over-matched or have lost the upper hand? Yes, in a skillful manner (using mobility and spatial awareness to your advantage) and so long as your opponent has opportunity to counter using their own skills. The key for us has been to balance the potential escapability of sprint with mechanics like shield recharge and sprint ramp-up, while maintaining a sprint mechanic that feels good. This is something that we will continue to focus on post-beta as this careful balance is so important.
> > > > > > > Sprint is also an action that the vast majority of Halo players expect to be able to utilize in both an offensive and defensive context. I know that this community does not feel that way (or likely believes that statement to be accurate), but the larger Halo community is very diverse and we are building a game for an audience with many different perspectives represented amongst them. Within that larger audience, most people expect to be able to sprint. Particularly as this is the third Halo game to feature the mechanic.
> > > > > > > Another important consideration for us is to keep the core play experience as consistent as possible between Campaign, Arena, and the larger MP experiences that we are building. We feel that sprint, done right, works well in Arena. I know that’s a point of significant contention amongst this community. Sprint also works tremendously well in the context of those other experiences that I mentioned. When a player crosses over from Campaign to Arena, or from Arena to big team MP, we want the mechanics to translate across consistently. It’s jarring to become accustomed to a core mechanic only to have it disappear, or vice versa. That’s something that we want to avoid.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > All of these points were were present and better implemented in H3 without the use of sprint and amounts to nothing more than the lead dev trying to justify (poorly) sprints inclusion
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So you’re saying that all those individual points that you’ve just argued go beyond “I like having sprint in Halo,”?? That’s why I linked them in the first place, you tried to claim you had yet to see any other arguments about sprint in this thread and yet you just took an enormous post to go back through and respond to a few of Josh Holmes’ pro sprint points and a few of mine… I’ve already answered those points with counter after counter so I certainly disagree with your counters here but the point in linking them wasn’t to try and reopen the discussion about what’s already been debated with the same old points… The point in linking those pro sprint points is exactly what you’ve just proven- there have indeed been multiple points to support keeping sprint in Halo beyond simply stating “I like sprint.”
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > …what counter???
> > > > > i still don’t see a counter here
> > > > > your points were immersion, lore predictive combat and player expectation
> > > > >
> > > > > these are not counters to gameplay mechanic based arguments against sprint…
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Part of the draw of sprint, and something Sin has mentioned several times throughout this thread, is the variety that the.different movement speeds give you, and how it is a tactical decision to use sprint vs not use it. That can’t be achieved nearly as profoundly with solely a single,
> > > > increased BMS, other than crouching, which is a 3rd movement speed that has overall been ignored on this thread.
> > > >
> > > > Though doI suppose you can not push down on the thumb stick at full speed, but still not quite the same effect.
> > >
> > >
> > > How are varying movement speeds outside of crouch beneficial to gameplay?
> > >
> > > spriting isnt tactical
> > > its sole purpose is to get you somewhere faster…
> >
> >
> > Look bud, you’re the one who a) stated that these pro sprint opinions haven’t been made in this thread (they have) and b) tried to lump all pro sprint points into meaning “I like sprint,” which is also untrue. Don’t freak out on people for providing you with reasons that you’re asking to see in this thread either.
>
>
> Didn’t freak out, I simply countered his post with actual facts pertaining to the effect sprint has on the game
>
> ive seen lots of pro sprint opinions thrown around, sadly none of them have any actual basis as to why sprint improves halo which is actually what I asked for

I disagree, I believe that many of the dozens upon dozens of reasons given in this thread have a strong basis as to why sprint improves Halo.

Plus you never asked to get into a bickering contest with me over each of those posts either, which is what I’m trying to avoid.

You asked, and this is a direct quote from you earlier, “Could you please list those tons and tons of reasons because I haven’t seen any of them,” and I simply linked those points to show you that they’ve been made in this thread… That’s it- not to open arguments with you about them that have already been going on for a long time.

> 2625759425619671;11696:
> > 2533274832130936;11690:
> > > 2625759425619671;11689:
> > > > 2533274832130936;11688:
> > > > > 2533274913913392;11685:
> > > > > > 2533274832130936;11679:
> > > > > > > 2625759425619671;11674:
> > > > > > > > 2533274832130936;11671:
> > > > > > > > Right so I want to actually go through sin’s arguments here
> > > > > > > > point by point
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > he said that his reasons for liking them were immersion, lord, predictive combat and player expectations
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Now the only thing that even remotely resembles a gameplay mechanic would be predictive combat, which halo 5 doesn’t have partly because of sprint
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > there’s no way to predict when an enemy is sprinting and when they aren’t so that doesn’t lend to the argument
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > moving on to the post he linked
> > > > > > > > it reads the following
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > “I think sprint is important part of the game now and should stay. I dont know why it really matters in campaign. It allows you to escape easier for one so i dont know why you would want it removed. Kinda why its essential in the game now. Being able to get around faster and having the choice of sprinting around and running around factor a ton into if you run into a fight. For example most time if im running around a corner and a guy is right in my face and he was not sprinting i will likely die since you cant fire from hip while running. So it matters in a game-play what you choose to do. Think it should stay.”
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > So to recap this we’ve got moving around faster, escape easier and sprinting around
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > remind me how this isn’t a “you move faster” argument
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > As for josh Holmes (you know the guy that lied about data centres)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > As a Spartan, it makes sense that you can push yourself in a situation where survival is imperative. It’s an action that feels natural in the context of a firefight. It’s the extra gear that a Spartan draws upon if they focus purely on mobility and speed.
> > > > > > > > It creates opportunities and meaningful choices on offense and defense. On offense you can commit to an aggressive push or flank at a slight cost to weapon readiness. On defense, you can try for a rapid retreat but it carries the trade-off of stalling your shield recharge. Should you be able to escape from a situation where you are over-matched or have lost the upper hand? Yes, in a skillful manner (using mobility and spatial awareness to your advantage) and so long as your opponent has opportunity to counter using their own skills. The key for us has been to balance the potential escapability of sprint with mechanics like shield recharge and sprint ramp-up, while maintaining a sprint mechanic that feels good. This is something that we will continue to focus on post-beta as this careful balance is so important.
> > > > > > > > Sprint is also an action that the vast majority of Halo players expect to be able to utilize in both an offensive and defensive context. I know that this community does not feel that way (or likely believes that statement to be accurate), but the larger Halo community is very diverse and we are building a game for an audience with many different perspectives represented amongst them. Within that larger audience, most people expect to be able to sprint. Particularly as this is the third Halo game to feature the mechanic.
> > > > > > > > Another important consideration for us is to keep the core play experience as consistent as possible between Campaign, Arena, and the larger MP experiences that we are building. We feel that sprint, done right, works well in Arena. I know that’s a point of significant contention amongst this community. Sprint also works tremendously well in the context of those other experiences that I mentioned. When a player crosses over from Campaign to Arena, or from Arena to big team MP, we want the mechanics to translate across consistently. It’s jarring to become accustomed to a core mechanic only to have it disappear, or vice versa. That’s something that we want to avoid.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > All of these points were were present and better implemented in H3 without the use of sprint and amounts to nothing more than the lead dev trying to justify (poorly) sprints inclusion
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So you’re saying that all those individual points that you’ve just argued go beyond “I like having sprint in Halo,”?? That’s why I linked them in the first place, you tried to claim you had yet to see any other arguments about sprint in this thread and yet you just took an enormous post to go back through and respond to a few of Josh Holmes’ pro sprint points and a few of mine… I’ve already answered those points with counter after counter so I certainly disagree with your counters here but the point in linking them wasn’t to try and reopen the discussion about what’s already been debated with the same old points… The point in linking those pro sprint points is exactly what you’ve just proven- there have indeed been multiple points to support keeping sprint in Halo beyond simply stating “I like sprint.”
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > …what counter???
> > > > > > i still don’t see a counter here
> > > > > > your points were immersion, lore predictive combat and player expectation
> > > > > >
> > > > > > these are not counters to gameplay mechanic based arguments against sprint…
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Part of the draw of sprint, and something Sin has mentioned several times throughout this thread, is the variety that the.different movement speeds give you, and how it is a tactical decision to use sprint vs not use it. That can’t be achieved nearly as profoundly with solely a single,
> > > > > increased BMS, other than crouching, which is a 3rd movement speed that has overall been ignored on this thread.
> > > > >
> > > > > Though doI suppose you can not push down on the thumb stick at full speed, but still not quite the same effect.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > How are varying movement speeds outside of crouch beneficial to gameplay?
> > > >
> > > > spriting isnt tactical
> > > > its sole purpose is to get you somewhere faster…
> > >
> > >
> > > Look bud, you’re the one who a) stated that these pro sprint opinions haven’t been made in this thread (they have) and b) tried to lump all pro sprint points into meaning “I like sprint,” which is also untrue. Don’t freak out on people for providing you with reasons that you’re asking to see in this thread either.
> >
> >
> > Didn’t freak out, I simply countered his post with actual facts pertaining to the effect sprint has on the game
> >
> > ive seen lots of pro sprint opinions thrown around, sadly none of them have any actual basis as to why sprint improves halo which is actually what I asked for
>
>
> I disagree, I believe that many of the dozens upon dozens of reasons given in this thread have a strong basis as to why sprint improves Halo.
>
> Plus you never asked to get into a bickering contest with me over each of those posts either, which is what I’m trying to avoid.
>
> You asked, and this is a direct quote from you earlier, “Could you please list those tons and tons of reasons because I haven’t seen any of them,” and I simply linked those points to show you that they’ve been made in this thread… That’s it- not to open arguments with you about them that have already been going on for a long time.

Sorry I guess I should have been more specific
when I said “please show me the tons and tons of reasons”
i meant reasons that have actual weight and basis to them
like legitimate reasons as to why it improves halo

i thought I made that clear, my bad

EDIT: and the fact you’re not even willing to entertain game mechanic ideas outside of sprint to make the game faster says everything that need to be said really

It’s unfortunate that others pro-sprinters from this thread aren’t debating anymore. At least they were mostly respectable and sensible in how they debated (despite whatever their opinion was) and largely did it free of whining. Now Sin seems to be the only one left and is acting like the figurehead for pro-sprinters (without any of their respectable qualities), which is only making them look worse and practically undoing their efforts to explain why sprint is good for Halo.

Kind of reminds me of Donald Trump and the U.S. Republican Party.

> 2533274866906624;11564:
> > 2535464014668339;11497:
> > Idgaf bout sprint keep or nah idc. I’m pissed though because the recent halos (4-5) are trash. They just aren’t like the originals which were insanely amazing to play, still playing campaigns over and over. Reach and ODST had thrilling campaigns but 4 and 5 just don’t have it. I hope that they in the future do something similar to reach or ODST like a marine game or possibly one on the covenant. Different than just the master chief over and over again. If we had a new game based on something that’s not really focused on in halo, a great soundtrack and pvp then I would kill for it. Y’all feel me?
>
>
> I don’t like characters like Palmer and Locke, who basically have no respect for Chief who has saved the human race multiple times already. Either give us a solid campaign focused on Chief like Halo CE, or give us ODST 2. Maybe even a marine campaign.

That’s what I’m thinking too. They also need to have a multiplayer in it. Halo 5 they messed that up. It only 1 player. ODST 2 would be sick

pro sprint has always defended sprint with ( a spartan ran in a book once ) (its realistic our soilders run all the time) 1st your ignoring sprint as a mechanic 2nd our active duty soilders do not run all over the battlefield they kindof power walk hmm kindof like
halo 1,2,3 because running makes your tool/wepon less acurete and running with 160 pound gear gets real tiring very quickly so no silders dont sprint all over the battlefield

> 2535464014668339;11699:
> > 2533274866906624;11564:
> > > 2535464014668339;11497:
> > > Idgaf bout sprint keep or nah idc. I’m pissed though because the recent halos (4-5) are trash. They just aren’t like the originals which were insanely amazing to play, still playing campaigns over and over. Reach and ODST had thrilling campaigns but 4 and 5 just don’t have it. I hope that they in the future do something similar to reach or ODST like a marine game or possibly one on the covenant. Different than just the master chief over and over again. If we had a new game based on something that’s not really focused on in halo, a great soundtrack and pvp then I would kill for it. Y’all feel me?
> >
> >
> > I don’t like characters like Palmer and Locke, who basically have no respect for Chief who has saved the human race multiple times already. Either give us a solid campaign focused on Chief like Halo CE, or give us ODST 2. Maybe even a marine campaign.
>
>
> That’s what I’m thinking too. They also need to have a multiplayer in it. Halo 5 they messed that up. It only 1 player. ODST 2 would be sick

I ll jump into hell for that

[deleted]

> 2533274816931642;9721:
> > 2535424929604739;9686:
> > Removing sprint is a bad idea. Even though you grew up without it, when someone wants to take it away you want to keep it even more. Its like coffee; you grew up never drinking it, but now that you like it, if someone wants to take it away, you get defensive about it. My point is once you get used to it, you don’t want to get rid of it.
>
>
> I still don’t like coffee. I don’t really care for how it tastes.
>
> I still like classic Halo. =)

umm try wording that diffrently and pick a diffrent topic because 56 percent of adults dont drink coffee