The sprint discussion thread

Games Halo 5: Guardians
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> > > > > > I like the sprint feature. It makes games more fast paced and exciting.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Can you actually engage with a mechanical argument instead of regugitating the same Exact Crap that every Advocate Spews? It’s like I’m watching Halo Enthusiests Argue with an Automated Response system.
> > > > >
> > > > > “This Feature is Great and Fun because It is Great and Fun and we said so. Sleep Consume Obey.”
> > >
> > >
> > > Could you please list those tons and tons of reasons because I haven’t seen any of them
> >
> >
> > My original pro sprint points (which were greatly expanded upon and have since evolved due to this debate) were: Immersion, Lore, Predictive Combat, Player Expectations, Give the majority of fans what they want in Halo, and Past Precedence… I’ve also provided and discussed map examples as to why not having sprint was hurtful to gameplay in larger maps in Halo 3.Those aren’t all the points that I’ve argued when advocating for keeping sprint in Halo but those are where I began in this thread.
> >
> > Also since you asked, I have cited several times that Josh Holmes (343i Executive Producer) has provided multiple reasons advocating for sprint in Halo and I’ve discussed his pro sprint opinions here in this thread. Those multiple points on sprint in no way boiled down to “This Feature is Great and Fun because It is Great and Fun and we said so. Sleep Consume Obey,” as xxxRedBlueGiG suggested that all pro sprint opinions have in this thread. And those were points made from 343i and from myself- From the very onset of this thread I’ve also been reading a number of other good reasons as to why people think sprint should stay in Halo (That one got 41 likes so that means that dozens of other people agreed with that person’s pro sprint opinions as well).
> >
> > Whether or not you agree with those points is a separate issue than whether or not they were made at all. These points have been debated here back and forth between pro & anti sprinters at length so I’m not sure why you haven’t seen them either.
>
>
> Uhhhhhh the problem with all of those “arguments” is that none of them are based on why the actual mechanic should stay and how sprint makes halo better other than “it makes me move faster”
>
> there is no machanic/gameplay reason as to why sprint needs to be in halo
>
> pleaee give us/cite us actual mechanic reasons as to why it improves halo

I’m sorry you feel that way but those arguments in no way boil down to “it makes me move faster.” If they did then “it makes me move faster,” would have been the discussion, not each of those separate, multiple pro points. If that’s really your opinion of each and every single one of the plethora of mechanical/gameplay examples that were provided to you defending why sprint is beneficial for gameplay and should remain in Halo then I simply cannot help you. You need to be able to read points with an open mind.

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> > > > > > > I like the sprint feature. It makes games more fast paced and exciting.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Can you actually engage with a mechanical argument instead of regugitating the same Exact Crap that every Advocate Spews? It’s like I’m watching Halo Enthusiests Argue with an Automated Response system.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > “This Feature is Great and Fun because It is Great and Fun and we said so. Sleep Consume Obey.”
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Could you please list those tons and tons of reasons because I haven’t seen any of them
> > >
> > >
> > > My original points which were greatly expanded and have since evolved due to this debate were: Immersion, Lore, Predictive Combat, Player Expectations, Give the majority of fans what they want in Halo, and Past Precedence… I’ve also provided and discussed map examples as to why not having sprint was hurtful to gameplay in larger maps in Halo 3. Those aren’t all the points that I’ve argued when advocating for sprint but those are where I began in this thread. Also since you asked, I have cited several times that Josh Holmes (343i Executive Producer) has provided multiple reasons advocating for sprint in Halo and I’ve discussed his pro sprint opinions here in this thread. Those multiple points on sprint in no way boiled down to “This Feature is Great and Fun because It is Great and Fun and we said so. Sleep Consume Obey,” as xxxRedBlueGiG suggested that all pro sprint opinions have in this thread. And those were points made from 343i and from myself- From the very onset of this thread I’ve also been reading a number of other good reasons as to why people think sprint should stay in Halo (That one got 41 likes so that means that dozens of other people agreed with that person’s pro sprint opinions as well).
> > >
> > > Whether or not you agree with those points is a separate issue than whether or not they were made at all. These points have been debated here back and forth between pro & anti sprinters at length so I’m not sure why you haven’t seen them either.
> >
> >
> > Uhhhhhh the problem with all of those “arguments” is that none of them are based on why the actual mechanic should stay and how sprint makes halo better other than “it makes me move faster”
> >
> > there is no machanic/gameplay reason as to why sprint needs to be in halo
> >
> > pleaee give us/cite us actual mechanic reasons as to why it improves halo
>
>
> I’m sorry you feel that way but those arguments in no way boil down to “it makes me move faster.” If it did then “it makes me move faster,” would have been the discussion. If that’s really your opinion of each and every single one of the plethora of mechanical/gameplay examples that were provided to you defending why sprint is beneficial for gameplay and should remain in Halo then I simply cannot help you. You need to be able to read points with an open mind.

You didn’t actually give any mechanical/gameplay examples
you cited immersion and lore and player expectations for your reasonsing
the post you linked that had 41 likes literally says “it makes me go faster on larger maps and helps you escape” which by the way is a main reason why it shouldn’t be in halo
josh Holmes advocating sprint is not gameplay mechanically based and if anything highlights why sprint should not be in halo

so yeah…gameplay examples please…

also so please look at my edit as I extended an olive branch which in theory should be accomodating for both pro and anti sprinters

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> > > > > > > I like the sprint feature. It makes games more fast paced and exciting.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Can you actually engage with a mechanical argument instead of regugitating the same Exact Crap that every Advocate Spews? It’s like I’m watching Halo Enthusiests Argue with an Automated Response system.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > “This Feature is Great and Fun because It is Great and Fun and we said so. Sleep Consume Obey.”
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Could you please list those tons and tons of reasons because I haven’t seen any of them
> > >
> > >
> > > My original points which were greatly expanded and have since evolved due to this debate were: Immersion, Lore, Predictive Combat, Player Expectations, Give the majority of fans what they want in Halo, and Past Precedence… I’ve also provided and discussed map examples as to why not having sprint was hurtful to gameplay in larger maps in Halo 3. Those aren’t all the points that I’ve argued when advocating for sprint but those are where I began in this thread. Also since you asked, I have cited several times that Josh Holmes (343i Executive Producer) has provided multiple reasons advocating for sprint in Halo and I’ve discussed his pro sprint opinions here in this thread. Those multiple points on sprint in no way boiled down to “This Feature is Great and Fun because It is Great and Fun and we said so. Sleep Consume Obey,” as xxxRedBlueGiG suggested that all pro sprint opinions have in this thread. And those were points made from 343i and from myself- From the very onset of this thread I’ve also been reading a number of other good reasons as to why people think sprint should stay in Halo (That one got 41 likes so that means that dozens of other people agreed with that person’s pro sprint opinions as well).
> > >
> > > Whether or not you agree with those points is a separate issue than whether or not they were made at all. These points have been debated here back and forth between pro & anti sprinters at length so I’m not sure why you haven’t seen them either.
> >
> >
> > Uhhhhhh the problem with all of those “arguments” is that none of them are based on why the actual mechanic should stay and how sprint makes halo better other than “it makes me move faster”
> >
> > there is no machanic/gameplay reason as to why sprint needs to be in halo
> >
> > pleaee give us/cite us actual mechanic reasons as to why it improves halo
>
>
> I’m sorry you feel that way but those arguments in no way boil down to “it makes me move faster.” If they did then “it makes me move faster,” would have been the discussion, not each of those separate, multiple pro points. If that’s really your opinion of each and every single one of the plethora of mechanical/gameplay examples that were provided to you defending why sprint is beneficial for gameplay and should remain in Halo then I simply cannot help you. You need to be able to read points with an open mind.

Your discussions will go a lot better if you slow down and actually respond to each person instead of simply linkig the same posts over an over and over again every 2. 4 seconds.

I’ve seen you mass posting for awhile now and none of your discussions ever go well. Mainly because you try to discuss EVERYTHING all at once with everyone.

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> > > > > > > > I like the sprint feature. It makes games more fast paced and exciting.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Can you actually engage with a mechanical argument instead of regugitating the same Exact Crap that every Advocate Spews? It’s like I’m watching Halo Enthusiests Argue with an Automated Response system.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > “This Feature is Great and Fun because It is Great and Fun and we said so. Sleep Consume Obey.”
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Could you please list those tons and tons of reasons because I haven’t seen any of them
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > My original points which were greatly expanded and have since evolved due to this debate were: Immersion, Lore, Predictive Combat, Player Expectations, Give the majority of fans what they want in Halo, and Past Precedence… I’ve also provided and discussed map examples as to why not having sprint was hurtful to gameplay in larger maps in Halo 3. Those aren’t all the points that I’ve argued when advocating for sprint but those are where I began in this thread. Also since you asked, I have cited several times that Josh Holmes (343i Executive Producer) has provided multiple reasons advocating for sprint in Halo and I’ve discussed his pro sprint opinions here in this thread. Those multiple points on sprint in no way boiled down to “This Feature is Great and Fun because It is Great and Fun and we said so. Sleep Consume Obey,” as xxxRedBlueGiG suggested that all pro sprint opinions have in this thread. And those were points made from 343i and from myself- From the very onset of this thread I’ve also been reading a number of other good reasons as to why people think sprint should stay in Halo (That one got 41 likes so that means that dozens of other people agreed with that person’s pro sprint opinions as well).
> > > >
> > > > Whether or not you agree with those points is a separate issue than whether or not they were made at all. These points have been debated here back and forth between pro & anti sprinters at length so I’m not sure why you haven’t seen them either.
> > >
> > >
> > > pleaee give us/cite us mechanic reasons as to why it improves halo
> >
> >
> > I’m sorry you feel that way but those arguments in no way boil down to “it makes me move faster.” If they did then “it makes me move faster,” would have been the discussion, not each of those separate, multiple pro points. If that’s really your opinion of each and every single one of the plethora of mechanical/gameplay examples that were provided to you defending why sprint is beneficial for gameplay and should remain in Halo then I simply cannot help you. You need to be able to read points with an open mind.
>
>
> Your discussions will go a lot better of you slow down and actually respond to each person instead of simply linkig the same posts over an over and over again every 2. 4 seconds.

I have responded to people on their counters… But eventually counter after counter from the same person just leads to a continually loop that isn’t productive for this conversation. I’m trying to remain on topic and provide things that are beneficial to the sprint discussion; not go back and forth in bickering disputes. The only reason that I even linked those posts anyway is because that person stated that they hadn’t seen “any mechanic reasons,” as to why sprint improves Halo… And I feel that I’ve not only made multiple points on that, but so has Josh Holmes (343i Executive Producer); along with a bunch of other people have given other reasons why they think sprint should remain in Halo. Those individual points wouldn’t have been debated back and forth for so long if they all just boiled down to “I like sprint,” as some of these people are suggesting they do.

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[deleted]

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Sin Shoot2Kill I would like to know a few things before I leave you alone. And please dont link me to anything you’ve previously said.

What does sprint add that couldn’t be done in previous games?

How does sprint benefit the player?

Why do Josh Holmes opinions merit more credibility than thousands of other people?

I look forward to hearing from you.

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> > > > > > > > > > I like the sprint feature. It makes games more fast paced and exciting.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Can you actually engage with a mechanical argument instead of regugitating the same Exact Crap that every Advocate Spews? It’s like I’m watching Halo Enthusiests Argue with an Automated Response system.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > “This Feature is Great and Fun because It is Great and Fun and we said so. Sleep Consume Obey.”
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Could you please list those tons and tons of reasons because I haven’t seen any of them
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My original points which were greatly expanded and have since evolved due to this debate were: Immersion, Lore, Predictive Combat, Player Expectations, Give the majority of fans what they want in Halo, and Past Precedence… I’ve also provided and discussed map examples as to why not having sprint was hurtful to gameplay in larger maps in Halo 3. Those aren’t all the points that I’ve argued when advocating for sprint but those are where I began in this thread. Also since you asked, I have cited several times that Josh Holmes (343i Executive Producer) has provided multiple reasons advocating for sprint in Halo and I’ve discussed his pro sprint opinions here in this thread. Those multiple points on sprint in no way boiled down to “This Feature is Great and Fun because It is Great and Fun and we said so. Sleep Consume Obey,” as xxxRedBlueGiG suggested that all pro sprint opinions have in this thread. And those were points made from 343i and from myself- From the very onset of this thread I’ve also been reading a number of other good reasons as to why people think sprint should stay in Halo (That one got 41 likes so that means that dozens of other people agreed with that person’s pro sprint opinions as well).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Whether or not you agree with those points is a separate issue than whether or not they were made at all. These points have been debated here back and forth between pro & anti sprinters at length so I’m not sure why you haven’t seen them either.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > pleaee give us/cite us mechanic reasons as to why it improves halo
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I’m sorry you feel that way but those arguments in no way boil down to “it makes me move faster.” If they did then “it makes me move faster,” would have been the discussion, not each of those separate, multiple pro points. If that’s really your opinion of each and every single one of the plethora of mechanical/gameplay examples that were provided to you defending why sprint is beneficial for gameplay and should remain in Halo then I simply cannot help you. You need to be able to read points with an open mind.
> > >
> > >
> > > Your discussions will go a lot better of you slow down and actually respond to each person instead of simply linkig the same posts over an over and over again every 2. 4 seconds.
> >
> >
> > I have responded to people on their counters… But eventually counter after counter from the same person just leads to a continually loop that isn’t productive for this conversation. I’m trying to remain on topic and provide things that are beneficial to the sprint discussion; not go back and forth in bickering disputes. The only reason that I linked those posts is because that person stated that they hadn’t seen “mechanic reasons,” as to why sprint improves Halo… And I feel that I’ve not only made multiple points on that, but so has Josh Holmes (343i Executive Producer) and a bunch of other people have given other reasons why they think sprint should remain in Halo. Those individual points wouldn’t have been debated back and forth for so long if they all just boiled down to “I like sprint,” as some of these people are suggesting they do.
>
>
> How about giving personal examples of how sprint helped or detrimented you or your friends experience? That’s the only thing you haven’t done yet. It’s not a strong argument, but it’s better than linking the same post (that only has about 3 legitimate arguments out of 20+) to every single person.

I hate to do this but since you’re asking for them- I actually have provided personal examples in this thread as to how I think sprint helps Halo. I also discussed how I’ve spoken about sprint to well over a hundred people between: my friends list, my viewers on Twitch, my 98-person Spartan Company (and two expansion companies), and random “friends of friends,” that happen to join up in my lobby… I have opened up with “How do you feel about sprint in Halo?” And not a single one of them have ever had anything negative to say about sprint in Halo… They’ve all talked to me about why they like having sprint in Halo. Issue is that many anti sprinters have already tried their best to “destroy,” any such personal opinions because they’re not “mechanical,” enough for them (Even though anti sprinters have routinely referenced polls that boil down to nothing more than asking participants “Do you like sprint?” or “Do you not like it?” Which are all opinion-based)

Plus I’m only linking those previous pro sprint points in order to help show people that more pro sprint opinions have been given in this thread than just “I like sprint,” as some people have tried to suggest.

Btw Sonic, it’s not like I haven’t engaged in tons and tons of discussions with people about each and every pro sprint opinion that I’ve made (I have)… There comes a point where the continual back and forth with the same person becomes less and less constructive. Especially when some anti sprint diehards in this thread have even admitted to having an objective to “destroy,” pro sprint opinions. That’s not really how a logical discussion about sprint in Halo amongst fellow fans should even go.

11671

Right so I want to actually go through sin’s arguments here
point by point

he said that his reasons for liking them were immersion, lord, predictive combat and player expectations

Now the only thing that even remotely resembles a gameplay mechanic would be predictive combat, which halo 5 doesn’t have partly because of sprint

there’s no way to predict when an enemy is sprinting and when they aren’t so that doesn’t lend to the argument

moving on to the post he linked
it reads the following

“I think sprint is important part of the game now and should stay. I dont know why it really matters in campaign. It allows you to escape easier for one so i dont know why you would want it removed. Kinda why its essential in the game now. Being able to get around faster and having the choice of sprinting around and running around factor a ton into if you run into a fight. For example most time if im running around a corner and a guy is right in my face and he was not sprinting i will likely die since you cant fire from hip while running. So it matters in a game-play what you choose to do. Think it should stay.”

So to recap this we’ve got moving around faster, escape easier and sprinting around

remind me how this isn’t a “you move faster” argument

As for josh Holmes (you know the guy that lied about data centres)

As a Spartan, it makes sense that you can push yourself in a situation where survival is imperative. It’s an action that feels natural in the context of a firefight. It’s the extra gear that a Spartan draws upon if they focus purely on mobility and speed.
It creates opportunities and meaningful choices on offense and defense. On offense you can commit to an aggressive push or flank at a slight cost to weapon readiness. On defense, you can try for a rapid retreat but it carries the trade-off of stalling your shield recharge. Should you be able to escape from a situation where you are over-matched or have lost the upper hand? Yes, in a skillful manner (using mobility and spatial awareness to your advantage) and so long as your opponent has opportunity to counter using their own skills. The key for us has been to balance the potential escapability of sprint with mechanics like shield recharge and sprint ramp-up, while maintaining a sprint mechanic that feels good. This is something that we will continue to focus on post-beta as this careful balance is so important.
Sprint is also an action that the vast majority of Halo players expect to be able to utilize in both an offensive and defensive context. I know that this community does not feel that way (or likely believes that statement to be accurate), but the larger Halo community is very diverse and we are building a game for an audience with many different perspectives represented amongst them. Within that larger audience, most people expect to be able to sprint. Particularly as this is the third Halo game to feature the mechanic.
Another important consideration for us is to keep the core play experience as consistent as possible between Campaign, Arena, and the larger MP experiences that we are building. We feel that sprint, done right, works well in Arena. I know that’s a point of significant contention amongst this community. Sprint also works tremendously well in the context of those other experiences that I mentioned. When a player crosses over from Campaign to Arena, or from Arena to big team MP, we want the mechanics to translate across consistently. It’s jarring to become accustomed to a core mechanic only to have it disappear, or vice versa. That’s something that we want to avoid.

All of these points were were present and better implemented in H3 without the use of sprint and amounts to nothing more than the lead dev trying to justify (poorly) sprints inclusion

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> > > > > > > > > I like the sprint feature. It makes games more fast paced and exciting.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Can you actually engage with a mechanical argument instead of regugitating the same Exact Crap that every Advocate Spews? It’s like I’m watching Halo Enthusiests Argue with an Automated Response system.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > “This Feature is Great and Fun because It is Great and Fun and we said so. Sleep Consume Obey.”
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Could you please list those tons and tons of reasons because I haven’t seen any of them
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > My original points which were greatly expanded and have since evolved due to this debate were: Immersion, Lore, Predictive Combat, Player Expectations, Give the majority of fans what they want in Halo, and Past Precedence… I’ve also provided and discussed map examples as to why not having sprint was hurtful to gameplay in larger maps in Halo 3. Those aren’t all the points that I’ve argued when advocating for sprint but those are where I began in this thread. Also since you asked, I have cited several times that Josh Holmes (343i Executive Producer) has provided multiple reasons advocating for sprint in Halo and I’ve discussed his pro sprint opinions here in this thread. Those multiple points on sprint in no way boiled down to “This Feature is Great and Fun because It is Great and Fun and we said so. Sleep Consume Obey,” as xxxRedBlueGiG suggested that all pro sprint opinions have in this thread. And those were points made from 343i and from myself- From the very onset of this thread I’ve also been reading a number of other good reasons as to why people think sprint should stay in Halo (That one got 41 likes so that means that dozens of other people agreed with that person’s pro sprint opinions as well).
> > > > >
> > > > > Whether or not you agree with those points is a separate issue than whether or not they were made at all. These points have been debated here back and forth between pro & anti sprinters at length so I’m not sure why you haven’t seen them either.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > pleaee give us/cite us mechanic reasons as to why it improves halo
> > >
> > >
> > > I’m sorry you feel that way but those arguments in no way boil down to “it makes me move faster.” If they did then “it makes me move faster,” would have been the discussion, not each of those separate, multiple pro points. If that’s really your opinion of each and every single one of the plethora of mechanical/gameplay examples that were provided to you defending why sprint is beneficial for gameplay and should remain in Halo then I simply cannot help you. You need to be able to read points with an open mind.
> >
> >
> > Your discussions will go a lot better of you slow down and actually respond to each person instead of simply linkig the same posts over an over and over again every 2. 4 seconds.
>
>
> I have responded to people on their counters… But eventually counter after counter from the same person just leads to a continually loop that isn’t productive for this conversation. I’m trying to remain on topic and provide things that are beneficial to the sprint discussion; not go back and forth in bickering disputes. The only reason that I even linked those posts anyway is because that person stated that they hadn’t seen “any mechanic reasons,” as to why sprint improves Halo… And I feel that I’ve not only made multiple points on that, but so has Josh Holmes (343i Executive Producer); along with a bunch of other people have given other reasons why they think sprint should remain in Halo. Those individual points wouldn’t have been debated back and forth for so long if they all just boiled down to “I like sprint,” as some of these people are suggesting they do.

You can do whatever you like. I’m just saying your discussions never go well. You’d be wise to try a different approach.

Then again, you defend sprint so trying something over and over that fails every time is right up your alley lol

11673

[deleted]

11674

> 2533274832130936;11671:
> Right so I want to actually go through sin’s arguments here point by point…

So you just demonstrating by arguing all those individual pro sprint points that all those individual points go beyond simply “I like having sprint in Halo,” which was my issue with your previous post where you stated that you hadn’t seen any pro sprint points go beyond that.

That’s why I linked them in the first place- you tried to claim you had yet to see any other arguments about sprint in this thread and yet you turn around just tonmake an enormous post to go back through and respond to a bunch of Josh Holmes’ different pro sprint points and a few of mine…

I have already answered a lot of peoples’ counter to those points on multiple occasions with counter after counter so I certainly disagree with your counters there anyway but the point in linking those points wasn’t to try and reopen the argument about what’s already been debated with the same old points… The point in linking those pro sprint points is exactly what you’ve just proven- there have indeed been multiple points to support keeping sprint in Halo beyond simply stating “I like sprint.”

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> > > > > > > > > > > I like the sprint feature. It makes games more fast paced and exciting.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Can you actually engage with a mechanical argument instead of regugitating the same Exact Crap that every Advocate Spews? It’s like I’m watching Halo Enthusiests Argue with an Automated Response system.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > “This Feature is Great and Fun because It is Great and Fun and we said so. Sleep Consume Obey.”
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Could you please list those tons and tons of reasons because I haven’t seen any of them
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > My original points which were greatly expanded and have since evolved due to this debate were: Immersion, Lore, Predictive Combat, Player Expectations, Give the majority of fans what they want in Halo, and Past Precedence… I’ve also provided and discussed map examples as to why not having sprint was hurtful to gameplay in larger maps in Halo 3. Those aren’t all the points that I’ve argued when advocating for sprint but those are where I began in this thread. Also since you asked, I have cited several times that Josh Holmes (343i Executive Producer) has provided multiple reasons advocating for sprint in Halo and I’ve discussed his pro sprint opinions here in this thread. Those multiple points on sprint in no way boiled down to “This Feature is Great and Fun because It is Great and Fun and we said so. Sleep Consume Obey,” as xxxRedBlueGiG suggested that all pro sprint opinions have in this thread. And those were points made from 343i and from myself- From the very onset of this thread I’ve also been reading a number of other good reasons as to why people think sprint should stay in Halo (That one got 41 likes so that means that dozens of other people agreed with that person’s pro sprint opinions as well).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Whether or not you agree with those points is a separate issue than whether or not they were made at all. These points have been debated here back and forth between pro & anti sprinters at length so I’m not sure why you haven’t seen them either.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > pleaee give us/cite us mechanic reasons as to why it improves halo
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I’m sorry you feel that way but those arguments in no way boil down to “it makes me move faster.” If they did then “it makes me move faster,” would have been the discussion, not each of those separate, multiple pro points. If that’s really your opinion of each and every single one of the plethora of mechanical/gameplay examples that were provided to you defending why sprint is beneficial for gameplay and should remain in Halo then I simply cannot help you. You need to be able to read points with an open mind.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your discussions will go a lot better of you slow down and actually respond to each person instead of simply linkig the same posts over an over and over again every 2. 4 seconds.
> > >
> > >
> > > I have responded to people on their counters… But eventually counter after counter from the same person just leads to a continually loop that isn’t productive for this conversation. I’m trying to remain on topic and provide things that are beneficial to the sprint discussion; not go back and forth in bickering disputes. The only reason that I linked those posts is because that person stated that they hadn’t seen “mechanic reasons,” as to why sprint improves Halo… And I feel that I’ve not only made multiple points on that, but so has Josh Holmes (343i Executive Producer) and a bunch of other people have given other reasons why they think sprint should remain in Halo. Those individual points wouldn’t have been debated back and forth for so long if they all just boiled down to “I like sprint,” as some of these people are suggesting they do.
> >
> >
> > How about giving personal examples of how sprint helped or detrimented you or your friends experience? That’s the only thing you haven’t done yet. It’s not a strong argument, but it’s better than linking the same post (that only has about 3 legitimate arguments out of 20+) to every single person.
>
>
> I hate to do this but since you’re asking for them- I actually have provided personal examples in this thread as to how I think sprint helps Halo. I also discussed how I’ve spoken about sprint to well over a hundred people between: my friends list, my viewers on Twitch, my 98-person Spartan Company (and two expansion companies), and random “friends of friends,” that happen to join up in my lobby… I have opened up with “How do you feel about sprint in Halo?” And not a single one of them have ever had anything negative to say about sprint in Halo… They’ve all talked to me about why they like having sprint in Halo. Issue is that many anti sprinters have already tried their best to “destroy,” any such personal opinions because they’re not “mechanical,” enough for them (Even though anti sprinters have routinely referenced polls that boil down to nothing more than asking participants “Do you like sprint?” or “Do you not like it?” Which are all opinion-based)
>
> Plus I’m only linking those previous pro sprint points in order to help show people that more pro sprint opinions have been given in this thread than just “I like sprint,” as some people have tried to suggest.
>
> Btw Sonic, it’s not like I haven’t engaged in tons and tons of discussions with people about each and every pro sprint opinion that I’ve made (I have)… There comes a point where the continual back and forth with the same person becomes less and less constructive. Especially when some anti sprint diehards in this thread have even admitted to having an objective to “destroy,” pro sprint opinions. That’s not really how a logical discussion about sprint in Halo amongst fellow fans should even go.

So you’re saying, out of your Spartan company, friends of friends, etc ect, not a single one,not even just one, said they disliked sprint? Cause that’s kind of hard to believe. I myself have my own company and a gaming community(which has spanned 50k+ over the years that was founded on halo(h2 specifically). I don’t even need to ask for thoughts cause many complain about halos issues when I play with them,I’ll even get the lame “we’re Spartans” response when someone argues for about sprint and then people who dislike it on the flow being ruined plus the other countless things 343 ruins. I find it hard to believe that you haven’t had even just one never complain about sprint if that’s what you’re saying.

onto the “destroy opinions”. People can have wrong opinions you know. It all depends on how it’s worded and how it’s stated. If you say “halo is faster” that’s an opinion(and more of a statement than opinion) that’s wrong. People have done tests and many things to disprove that opinion. Want to know an opinion that can’t be destroyed? “I like sprint!” Cause you can’t disprove said opinion. You can disagree with that opinion but you can’t prove it wrong, you can prove (and has already been done) the other example I gave.

11676

I think it’s funny because if sprint wasn’t an issue, their wouldn’t be almost 600 pages on this one forum lmfao

11677

I think an interesting discussion to have would be: why do we only accept these “mechanical” arguments? What makes an argument mechanical to begin with? What do these arguments have that ones based, e.g., on immersion, or lore, don’t? And finally, a loaded question, do these arguments inherently hold more value than other arguments, or do they only hold more value in a certain context?

Some honest introspection with these questions could lead to better mutual understanding. Though, admittedly, I’m not holding my breath about it.

11678

[deleted]

11679

> 2625759425619671;11674:
> > 2533274832130936;11671:
> > Right so I want to actually go through sin’s arguments here
> > point by point
> >
> > he said that his reasons for liking them were immersion, lord, predictive combat and player expectations
> >
> > Now the only thing that even remotely resembles a gameplay mechanic would be predictive combat, which halo 5 doesn’t have partly because of sprint
> >
> > there’s no way to predict when an enemy is sprinting and when they aren’t so that doesn’t lend to the argument
> >
> > moving on to the post he linked
> > it reads the following
> >
> > “I think sprint is important part of the game now and should stay. I dont know why it really matters in campaign. It allows you to escape easier for one so i dont know why you would want it removed. Kinda why its essential in the game now. Being able to get around faster and having the choice of sprinting around and running around factor a ton into if you run into a fight. For example most time if im running around a corner and a guy is right in my face and he was not sprinting i will likely die since you cant fire from hip while running. So it matters in a game-play what you choose to do. Think it should stay.”
> >
> > So to recap this we’ve got moving around faster, escape easier and sprinting around
> >
> > remind me how this isn’t a “you move faster” argument
> >
> > As for josh Holmes (you know the guy that lied about data centres)
> >
> > As a Spartan, it makes sense that you can push yourself in a situation where survival is imperative. It’s an action that feels natural in the context of a firefight. It’s the extra gear that a Spartan draws upon if they focus purely on mobility and speed.
> > It creates opportunities and meaningful choices on offense and defense. On offense you can commit to an aggressive push or flank at a slight cost to weapon readiness. On defense, you can try for a rapid retreat but it carries the trade-off of stalling your shield recharge. Should you be able to escape from a situation where you are over-matched or have lost the upper hand? Yes, in a skillful manner (using mobility and spatial awareness to your advantage) and so long as your opponent has opportunity to counter using their own skills. The key for us has been to balance the potential escapability of sprint with mechanics like shield recharge and sprint ramp-up, while maintaining a sprint mechanic that feels good. This is something that we will continue to focus on post-beta as this careful balance is so important.
> > Sprint is also an action that the vast majority of Halo players expect to be able to utilize in both an offensive and defensive context. I know that this community does not feel that way (or likely believes that statement to be accurate), but the larger Halo community is very diverse and we are building a game for an audience with many different perspectives represented amongst them. Within that larger audience, most people expect to be able to sprint. Particularly as this is the third Halo game to feature the mechanic.
> > Another important consideration for us is to keep the core play experience as consistent as possible between Campaign, Arena, and the larger MP experiences that we are building. We feel that sprint, done right, works well in Arena. I know that’s a point of significant contention amongst this community. Sprint also works tremendously well in the context of those other experiences that I mentioned. When a player crosses over from Campaign to Arena, or from Arena to big team MP, we want the mechanics to translate across consistently. It’s jarring to become accustomed to a core mechanic only to have it disappear, or vice versa. That’s something that we want to avoid.
> >
> > All of these points were were present and better implemented in H3 without the use of sprint and amounts to nothing more than the lead dev trying to justify (poorly) sprints inclusion
>
>
> So you’re saying that all those individual points that you’ve just argued go beyond “I like having sprint in Halo,”?? That’s why I linked them in the first place, you tried to claim you had yet to see any other arguments about sprint in this thread and yet you just took an enormous post to go back through and respond to a few of Josh Holmes’ pro sprint points and a few of mine… I’ve already answered those points with counter after counter so I certainly disagree with your counters here but the point in linking them wasn’t to try and reopen the discussion about what’s already been debated with the same old points… The point in linking those pro sprint points is exactly what you’ve just proven- there have indeed been multiple points to support keeping sprint in Halo beyond simply stating “I like sprint.”

…what counter???
i still don’t see a counter here
your points were immersion, lore predictive combat and player expectation

these are not counters to gameplay mechanic based arguments against sprint…

the post you linked literally said “escape easier move faster”
that was the base of the “counter”

and josh holmes did not cite game play mechanics as his reasons to include it
actually read his justifications for sprint
all of the things he mentioned are possible in H3 and done better I might add

so again I am asking for actual gameplay mechanic based arguments as to why sprint enriches halo and makes it a better experience that doesn’t include personal preference and “you move faster” because this is literally all you’ve said

also and one more time

eliminate sprint increase FOV and increase base movement speed to 110-115%

if you do this both both pro and anti sprinters should in theory be happy

11680

I want to keep sprint it just takes to long walking around.

11681

What exactly are the goals of sprint?

As far as I can tell they amount to

1- Increase the speed of the game.
2-Immerse the player.
3-Match player expectations.

Are you actually going to sit there and tell me that sprint is the ONLY movement mechanic that can meet these goals?

11682

> 2533274825830455;11677:
> I think an interesting discussion to have would be: why do we only accept these “mechanical” arguments? What makes an argument mechanical to begin with? What do these arguments have that ones based, e.g., on immersion, or lore, don’t? And finally, a loaded question, do these arguments inherently hold more value than other arguments, or do they only hold more value in a certain context?
>
> Some honest introspection with these questions could lead to better mutual understanding. Though, admittedly, I’m not holding my breath about it.

It’s not that their arguments don’t hold weight, it’s the fact that their argument is subjective and will be different from player to player some like sprint some don’t so you will get varying opinions

what’s not varying tho is the effect certain mechanics have on games
those can be measured and calculated and give you concrete data as to why something is inherently beneficial or not

sure H5 may have the least aim assist in any halo game but it also has quite possibly the highest bullet magnetism because of things like sprint slide and Spartan charge

sure sprint makes you “move faster” but now the maps are stretched out and there’s no flow and precision weapon RRRs have been shortened because of the open space
I could go on and on

opinions and what a person likes is fine
people can like sprint they can think it adds to the immersion and lore

my problem with the argument is this

someone says hey look the sky is purple
and you break it down for them, explain why the sky is actually blue go through Rayleigh scattering effect with them and really explain it
and then the response is “the sky’s purple”

This is what it feels like when I debate a pro sprinter

then again I might just be insane

11683

> 2535416312186911;11680:
> I want to keep sprint it just takes to long walking around.

So, increase movement speed.