The sprint discussion thread

> 2625759425619671;11623:
> Bungie actually added sprint to Halo; not 343i… 343i just kept sprint in Halo and made it better and more balanced to support competitive gameplay. And sprint wasn’t a change for the worse, it was something that enhanced gameplay in a multitude of ways. Sprint should absolutely remain in Halo as players obviously need the choice to pick between walking and running.

You know, in older Halos, if you wanted to not move at the quickest pace, but move faster than your slowest speed, then you could just pull back on the stick a bit. Your full speed in older Halos was your sprint speed in new Halos. If you pulled back on the stick a bit, you’d be walking briskly. The choice to run at full torque, or just walk was always there.

> 2625759425619671;11623:
> > 2533274909445208;11618:
> > The game was better without it but 343i said, oh lets just add sprint. The game never needed to change and has a really strong fanbase that keeps growing. Halo changed and it did for the worse. Sprint alone as a game mechanic changed a lot of how the game played and feels. And it doesn’t feel much like Halo anymore
>
>
> Bungie actually added sprint to Halo; not 343i… 343i just kept sprint in Halo and made it better and more balanced to support competitive gameplay. And sprint wasn’t a change for the worse, it was something that enhanced gameplay in a multitude of ways. Sprint should absolutely remain in Halo as players obviously need the choice to pick between walking and running.

Bungie implemented sprint as an armor ability for Halo: Reach and 343i made it permanent. There is a big difference there. 343i made the mistake of keeping it by building gameplay around it. That’s one main reason why Halo doesn’t feel like Halo anymore (There are also other reasons but this is one of the biggest issues)

> 2533274970658419;10904:
> Can someone explain, objectively, why we NEED sprint.
>
> What does it add? So far, this is my little list I made on TB. Sprint does not make games faster, sprint does not mean fast paced. I’m convinced most people on this thread are <13 because no one seems to have played Quake or UT (or CE).
>
>
>
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> > SPRINT PROS
> > - Immersion
> > - Risk vs reward
> > - You move faster (Waypoint’s answer)
> >
> > SPRINT CONS
> > - Maps are stretched to accommodate the different speeds
> > - Forced to put gun down to effectively move around the map
> > - Death is less penalized, as you are able to return fast to the action
> > - Movement outside of sprint is sluggish to justify you sprinting

Your right about sprint as a mechanic not making a halo game faster, the classic halo games made their maps around BMS and so have halo 5 anyone can just look at the 4v4 match times of any halo title and they haven’t changed.

Not sure if i agree with you about Deaths being less penalised, your shields not being able to recharge if you keep sprinting helps with this. Not sure about “Forced to put your gun down to move effectively around the map” halo should also have advantageous and disadvantages to any mechanic it brings in.

The only argument that i have heard for not having sprint that is valid is that it makes player prediction more consistent, so you kill a person then they spawn and move with a constant movement on the map and you are more likely to know where they are. So far on this thread i haven’t heard of any other good reasons, i do not consider dead zones to be disadvantageous to gameplay from what ive played it has no negative impacts. I have also heard the argument of that sprint is an illusion again that doesn’t matter 1 im playing a game its all an illusion 2. again this doesn’t impact on gameplay.

Sprinting in halo 5 for me i like it, as you’ve said sprint creates a better immersion, BTB is way more fun in halo 4 and halo 5 than halo 3. Halo 6 would play fine with or without sprint as long as the BMS is faster than that of the classic halo games. And of course the maps have to be designed around the speed of the player as long as they do this its fine.

> 2533274886529017;11624:
> > 2625759425619671;11623:
> > Bungie actually added sprint to Halo; not 343i… 343i just kept sprint in Halo and made it better and more balanced to support competitive gameplay. And sprint wasn’t a change for the worse, it was something that enhanced gameplay in a multitude of ways. Sprint should absolutely remain in Halo as players obviously need the choice to pick between walking and running.
>
>
> You know, in older Halos, if you wanted to not move at the quickest pace, but move faster than your slowest speed, then you could just pull back on the stick a bit. Your full speed in older Halos was your sprint speed in new Halos. If you pulled back on the stick a bit, you’d be walking briskly. The choice to run at full torque, or just walk was always there.

That’s true but the classic halo’s felt slow, im speaking purely from what i felt as a player, im not using any evidence. Moving at top speed in the classic halos still felt slow as a perception of a player. One way 343 could get around this problem is by always having your gun out when moving regardless of sprinting.

[deleted]

> 2533274866652866;11627:
> That’s true but the classic halo’s felt slow, im speaking purely from what i felt as a player, im not using any evidence. Moving at top speed in the classic halos still felt slow as a perception of a player. One way 343 could get around this problem is by always having your gun out when moving regardless of sprinting.

Or just crank the FoV. The perception of slowness caused by older Halos was due to the cramped FoV, not the movement itself actually being slow. Besides, if your gun was always up, what would the point of sprint be (Past visual movement feedback), assuming it has one right now (Which it doesn’t, when you look at things that can replace it without its downsides).

> 2533274886529017;11629:
> > 2533274866652866;11627:
> > That’s true but the classic halo’s felt slow, im speaking purely from what i felt as a player, im not using any evidence. Moving at top speed in the classic halos still felt slow as a perception of a player. One way 343 could get around this problem is by always having your gun out when moving regardless of sprinting.
>
>
> Or just crank the FoV. The perception of slowness caused by older Halos was due to the cramped FoV, not the movement itself actually being slow. Besides, if your gun was always up, what would the point of sprint be (Past visual movement feedback), assuming it has one right now (Which it doesn’t, when you look at things that can replace it without its downsides).

I would like to play a halo game that had a wider FOV and see how it plays, if that fixes the perception of slowness then good. Sprinting just allows for more immersion and having your gun up all the time could solve the problem of halo being who ever sees who first.

> 2533274866652866;11627:
> I would like to play a halo game that had a wider FOV and see how it plays, if that fixes the perception of slowness then good. Sprinting just allows for more immersion and having your gun up all the time could solve the problem of halo being who ever sees who first.

An upped FoV does everything sprint does, without any of the downsides, such as map scaling, or escapability. It’s literally a placebo effect in the good way, in that it helps visibility, but also gives off the illusion of moving faster. Much faster. There’s a video of Halo 3 operating at 150 FoV, and while the FPS view is awkward (Having not been coded for said view), you can clearly feel a sense of speed unlike any other game Halo’s launched, despite the game being played at launch speed.

[deleted]

> 2535464451695009;11628:
> Damn, I forgot to mention I was talking about the whole sandbox again. But yeah, that’s true. Honestly, I’m just thinking about both Custom Games and Matchmaking at the same time when I make these posts. I just want both of them to thrive again and be close to Halo Reach or 3’s levels of awesome, at least.
>
> I don’t have as much an issue in customs and the like. Including them there to tinker with isn’t a bad idea on its own, given that’s where your mind should roam free.
>
> Yeah, I noticed all of those points in Halo 5 after changing the controls to Recon and messing with some settings to make a Classic-But-“Modern” mode. Playing against other people with just Thrusters on Halo 5 maps and OG trilogy remakes felt really fresh and unique, and a lot more like traditional Halo than having all these other abilities at the same time. It was much closer to classic Halo than Reach could ever be, personally. I think that thrusters are a much more viable option, defensively, than sprint because you can thrust out of the way and to safety while still watching your opponent. You don’t cover a lot of distance, and you’re temporarily out of the line of fire, but still visible (most likely) to readjust to the situation.
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> I’m still of the camp of “you shouldn’t have any defensive options”. It’s just a “why”, thing. “Why” be able to thrust out of the way of something that caught you in its path, be it a nade, rocket or simple a projectile. You don’t need to cover a lot of distance to break LoS, meaning it’d still be viable to break off combat. Only way I’d see it being half “acceptable” (Stressing IMO) is if you had full control through the action, unlike now, and your distance was shortened in regards to thrust. And that’s half acceptable. I just don’t like any abilities that have grant any defensive potential where there shouldn’t be any.
>
> Yeah, the developers of CSGO have been focused on player retention and growing the competitive scene since they got their -Yoink- together in 2013/2014. I honestly don’t remember them ever doing something like this in Source. Anyways, what do you propose should change in Halo if you can’t touch gameplay? I mean, Firefight and Spartan Ops can only go through so many iterations before people say “This is too much”, like with Black Ops 3’s Zombies mode.
> I like the idea of making a game modular enough for monthly updates, as Halo 5’s done. That’s a good step. It allows you to consistently launch new stuff when it’s made, allowing for devs to listen to, and implement things players want. Given the inconsistent mess recent Halos have been in regards to launch content, though, I honestly don’t know what to change, but know many things could. Maybe begin re-working Firefight. Work on implementing a forgeable version of it for the consumers, for example. Bring in more Spartan Ops missions over a longer period of time in order to make new environments, while bringing us a sub-story to connect sequels, like Halo 4 did with Halo 5.

> 2535464451695009;11632:
> > 2533274866652866;11630:
> > > 2533274886529017;11629:
> > > > 2533274866652866;11627:
> > > > That’s true but the classic halo’s felt slow, im speaking purely from what i felt as a player, im not using any evidence. Moving at top speed in the classic halos still felt slow as a perception of a player. One way 343 could get around this problem is by always having your gun out when moving regardless of sprinting.
> > >
> > >
> > > Or just crank the FoV. The perception of slowness caused by older Halos was due to the cramped FoV, not the movement itself actually being slow. Besides, if your gun was always up, what would the point of sprint be (Past visual movement feedback), assuming it has one right now (Which it doesn’t, when you look at things that can replace it without its downsides).
> >
> >
> > I would like to play a halo game that had a wider FOV and see how it plays, if that fixes the perception of slowness then good. Sprinting just allows for more immersion and having your gun up all the time could solve the problem of halo being who ever sees who first.
>
>
> Here’s one video.Here’s another video.

Yeah not bad i had a look on youtube for other increases in FOV and it looks pretty good. Obviously it needs to be supported. It creates a faster looking halo which im for.

> 2533274866652866;11627:
> Yeah not bad i had a look on youtube for other increases in FOV and it looks pretty good. Obviously it needs to be supported. It creates a faster looking halo which im for.

Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeep. It’s the perfect solution.

> 2625759425619671;11623:
> > 2533274909445208;11618:
> > The game was better without it but 343i said, oh lets just add sprint. The game never needed to change and has a really strong fanbase that keeps growing. Halo changed and it did for the worse. Sprint alone as a game mechanic changed a lot of how the game played and feels. And it doesn’t feel much like Halo anymore
>
>
> Bungie actually added sprint to Halo; not 343i… 343i just kept sprint in Halo and made it better and more balanced to support competitive gameplay. And sprint wasn’t a change for the worse, it was something that enhanced gameplay in a multitude of ways. Sprint should absolutely remain in Halo as players obviously need the choice to pick between walking and running.

Bungie also tried to add sprint to Halo 2. When it didn’t work it was removed, and never came back for Halo 3. It was only added to Reach because it was added in as an ability. 343i however have had sprint as default. They haven’t tried a non-sprint Halo, and their Halos are the only ones to include it as a default ability. It was tweaked from Halo 4 because it messed with the gameplay.

Everything else you said was opinion and subjective.

I like the sprint feature. It makes games more fast paced and exciting.

Copied a post off beyond that I personally loved seeing. No idea if it’s ever been referenced but it’s a very good and detailed opinion with some facts as well to what halo was known as to what it is now.

"The very first thing that we’re going to tell you is that your method of thinking is completely backwards from what needs to happen for the Halo franchise. I discussed this in the middle of a profanity-laden rant on a Bomb Planted episode when I said that the Halo series’ mutliplayer is not in a state where we need to think about going forward; it is in a state where we need to think about going backward to fix the overarching problems that have nagged this series ever since the first sequel, before we even begin to think about adding new content on top of it. You’re speaking about trying to create a fresh experience, but nobody at Bungie or 343 has ever communicated to us that they understand what the actual issues are that plague Halo’s multiplayer and interfere with that kind of world-building attitude.

First of all, stop using gameplay elements to justify your aesthetic (or the other way around, whatever). I question the need to even employ this manner of thinking outside the campaign, as Halo’s mutliplayer has always been a somewhat cartoonish side aspect compared to its single-player experience. There is no immersion in LoL’s multiplayer, there is no immersion in CoD’s multiplayer, because when pushed to the bleeding edge of competitive play both of these games look simply ridiculous. We’re not focusing on realistic callouts from our teammates’ avatars (an utterly ridiculous concept to start with), we’re not focused on what our Spartan should be able to do based on lore and fair portrayal of a super soldier in the future. Let me restate this for emphasis - nobody who is trying to win at Halo cares about these things. Halo is not a simulator.

But getting back to the problems, Halo players do not need “fresh and interesting combat options”. What we need is for the developers to understand some very basic tenets about what Halo’s gameplay is made of, because this is the thing that seems to be sorely lacking. Halo is a weird arena/squad mutant hybrid baby. Initially, there was no running or standing bloom. You can run at full speed zoomed in our out, there is palpable vertical access, and there are weapons on map. But then you have reloading, recharging shields, a max of two weapons, and grenades. In addition, there are some weird - but extremely important - aspects to Halo that lie somewhere in between, such as the medium running speed, the concept of a utility weapon plus the idea that you are supposed to hit the grand majority of your shots with it, and the specific resolution of kill times which lies squarely in the middle of squad-shooter-instant-death and the long, drawn out jousting matches of arena combat.

Now, let’s get in depth on that for a second. Arena shooters have very extrapolated gunplay exchanges, and yet…squad shooters are the biggest culprits of camping. Do you notice how interesting that is? The mobility, the kill times, the weapon access and mechanics, these all have a multi-tiered interplay that produces results which are not necessarily the most intuitive. The point of me saying this is that Halo does not have a comfortable resting place between these two concepts. On the contrary, it sits on a very delicate fulcrum between them, where any minor adjustment can have drastic consequences for the gameplay. Take a look at Halo 2, for example. This is a game littered with problems, but the one thing that broke combat for years afterward was the lack of power that the battle rifle had compared to the pistol. It took literally more than twice as long to kill an opponent with perfect shooting, but if you were shooting someone in the back or at an unfortunate angle, you now had to blow an entire clip just to kill that one enemy. That, along with the change in map design philosophy, completely altered the way that Halo was played…for the worse, as most of us would tell you.

The only actual gameplay element that has been brought up so far is sprint. We say sprint is broken, you say that sprint enables creativity. Well, first of all, that would be true if Halo was actually a game with different classes that had incredibly distinct mobility differences, but that’s not the case and never has been. Halo will never be a class shooter, no matter how much anyone tries to force it, as long as it still vaguely plays like Halo. So we’re left with every Spartan awarded the ability to burn out and take off across the battlefield. As I mentioned in a post a while ago, this has many detrimental effects on gameplay:

Sprint influences map design by pushing developers to make larger maps, which is inappropriate for Halo’s core gameplay
It creates a large area of “no man’s land” on a map where nobody is actually expected to have a gunfight
It also creates areas that are just segues into different parts of the map, e.g. the hallways on Adrift - those are not ideal fighting locations (see Chill Out for proper map-making inspiration)
Sprint deconstructs the spawning system because players are able to get back in the battle too quickly, especially with a straight-shooting weapon like the DMR and lots of open spaces
Sprint ruins map geometry by creating gaps that can only be traversed with sprint-powered jumps; jumping and shooting is kind of important in Halo
Most significantly, it causes the Spartan to lower their weapon - at no point in a Halo game should a person be unable to shoot their gun unless they’re holding the objective (lol, flagnum)
It downplays the vertical aspect of Halo hugely, creating maps that are horizontally gigantic but vertically insignificant
This is probably not even the entire list of problems that sprint brings to the table. But the thing is, man…I don’t even have to think that long or that hard to come up with a list of reasons why sprint is bad news for this game series. The lack of consequential logic here baffles me to no end, as does the complete absence of respect for Halo’s fundamental gameplay. "

> 2533274997577159;11637:
> I like the sprint feature. It makes games more fast paced and exciting.

Can you actually engage with a mechanical argument instead of regugitating the same Exact Crap that every Advocate Spews? It’s like I’m watching Halo Enthusiests Argue with an Automated Response system.

“This Feature is Great and Fun because It is Great and Fun and we said so. Sleep Consume Obey.”

> 2533274866652866;11627:
> > 2533274886529017;11624:
> > > 2625759425619671;11623:
> > > Bungie actually added sprint to Halo; not 343i… 343i just kept sprint in Halo and made it better and more balanced to support competitive gameplay. And sprint wasn’t a change for the worse, it was something that enhanced gameplay in a multitude of ways. Sprint should absolutely remain in Halo as players obviously need the choice to pick between walking and running.
> >
> >
> > You know, in older Halos, if you wanted to not move at the quickest pace, but move faster than your slowest speed, then you could just pull back on the stick a bit. Your full speed in older Halos was your sprint speed in new Halos. If you pulled back on the stick a bit, you’d be walking briskly. The choice to run at full torque, or just walk was always there.
>
>
> That’s true but the classic halo’s felt slow, im speaking purely from what i felt as a player, im not using any evidence. Moving at top speed in the classic halos still felt slow as a perception of a player. One way 343 could get around this problem is by always having your gun out when moving regardless of sprinting.

Halo 3 was slow, if you played on the mcc that’s probably all you played because people don’t vote for anything else. The maps are too large and the fov is weird. A halo 2/CE BMS would be much faster then the halo 3 BMS.

> 2533274923562209;11638:
> “Halo will never be a class shooter, no matter how much anyone tries to force it, as long as it still vaguely plays like Halo.”

That was all a great post, but that part particularly jumped out at me. That’s the reason why sprint (and a number of other things 343 has tried over the years) will never work properly with Halo. 343 are applying logic and mechanics that go great with other types of shooters, but they’re still trying to make sure Halo resembles its previous entries in some fashion and that will never work for this series. Even Halo 4 didn’t go full CoD, it just went mostly CoD. They only way sprint will work is if they decide that Halo no longer needs to play like Halo anymore, which is fine with me because I’d rather have a good game that doesn’t play like Halo than a game that doesn’t make sense and doesn’t play like Halo.

Yea but NOW we can slide and stuff #KeepHalo5sprint @Halo ^^^

> 2535431550546249;11639:
> > 2533274997577159;11637:
> > I like the sprint feature. It makes games more fast paced and exciting.
>
>
> Can you actually engage with a mechanical argument instead of regugitating the same Exact Crap that every Advocate Spews? It’s like I’m watching Halo Enthusiests Argue with an Automated Response system.
>
> “This Feature is Great and Fun because It is Great and Fun and we said so. Sleep Consume Obey.”

That’s not at all “the same Exact Crap that every Advocate Spews,” nor does this person need to engage in an argument with you to claim that they like having sprint in Halo.

Pro sprinters have given tons and tons other reasons as to why sprint should remain in Halo; whether or not you disagree with those reasons is another issue. Plus anti sprinters have routinely cited polls in this thread; point is that those polls boiled down to nothing more than the participants stating, “Yes I like sprint,” or “No I don’t like it,” without having to debate anything; let alone engage in an argument about mechanics in order to vote. Responses like yours make it appear that anti sprinters are making a vain attempt to suppress peoples’ pro sprint views in this thread.