Why are you guys still arguing with this Sin Shoot2kill guy? All of his arguments have thoroughly been dismantled and he’s clearly not gonna change his mind. You guys are just wasting your time it’s like talking to a brick wall this guy.
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> Why are you guys still arguing with this SiN SHOOT2KILL guy? All of his arguments have thoroughly been dismantled and he’s clearly not gonna change his mind. You guys are just wasting your time it’s like talking to a brick wall this guy.
Typical anti sprinter diehard… Just go right after someone for being pro sprint. Everything you’ve said has been a waste of time to even read. And please, you couldn’t dismantle points from a child in an argument. All you anti sprinter diehards have ever offered to this thread are illogical opinions that you try to push as fact… You’re so disillusioned that you think you can actually debate your way into making any difference at all in your useless efforts to try to get sprint removed… All because you think that would actually help make you good at Halo again (you won’t be either way).
Good luck trying to “win,” this thread - your “all or nothing,” approach to sprint in this debate could really win you something of value in life, right? As if you can almost make any sort of a difference in the next Halo game by getting into shouting matches with your fellow fans and perpetuating a toxic environment in the threads… Almost anyway but whatever helps you kids sleep at night. Hey- I’ll drink a cold one just for you guys when they inevitably announce that the next Halo game will feature sprint and larger maps.
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> > 2535449890874046;11456:
> > You don’t have to sprint if you don’t want to fam.
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>
> You can just walk everywhere
But you cannot control what your opponent does, so your point is moot.
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> > 2535466533436400;11466:
> > Sprint needs to stay, a modern FPS can’t survive without it. Spartan charge and sliding can go. Keep the other abilities. That would make me happy.
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>
> CS: GO and Overwatch are both modern shooters without sprint. Do those two games ring a bell?
yes, they ring a bell. But their base movement speeds are much faster than Halo 2 or 3’s base speeds.
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> > 2533274909445208;11469:
> > > 2535466533436400;11466:
> > > Sprint needs to stay, a modern FPS can’t survive without it. Spartan charge and sliding can go. Keep the other abilities. That would make me happy.
> >
> >
> > CS: GO and Overwatch are both modern shooters without sprint. Do those two games ring a bell?
>
>
> yes, they ring a bell. But their base movement speeds are much faster than Halo 2 or 3’s base speeds.
Is that true? Anyways, FoV is so low in Halo games (especially Halo 3) that is makes them feel slow. Increasing the FoV would do a lot in that regard. Ideally Halo 6 should have a FoV slider like a handful of other games on Xbox One do. I’m fairly certain that 343i said this feature was coming to the Halo 5: Forge PC port, so I think it’s at least somewhat likely that you could see that in Halo 6.
This and this are good examples of what I am talking about. The games look and feel a lot faster, but nothing changed other than the FoV. If your primary reason for wanting sprint is to make the game feel faster, this would be a much better option without all of the negatives.
> 2533274867266391;11504:
> Why are you guys still arguing with this SiN SHOOT2KILL guy? All of his arguments have thoroughly been dismantled and he’s clearly not gonna change his mind. You guys are just wasting your time it’s like talking to a brick wall this guy.
While there’s a certain fun aspect to reiteration of your values for a game you love, and showing your passion for it, it’s also about just getting your view/point out there, rather than not speaking up at all, no matter who speaks up against you. I’d much rather go in circles about sprint, rather than just be quiet, you know?
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> > 2533274867266391;11504:
> > Why are you guys still arguing with this SiN SHOOT2KILL guy? All of his arguments have thoroughly been dismantled and he’s clearly not gonna change his mind. You guys are just wasting your time it’s like talking to a brick wall this guy.
>
>
> Typical anti sprinter diehard… Just go right after someone for being pro sprint. Everything you’ve said has been a waste of time to even read. And please, you couldn’t dismantle points from a child in an argument. All you anti sprinters have ever offered to this thread are illogical opinions that you try to push as fact… You’re so disillusioned that you think you can actually debate your way into making any difference at all in your useless efforts to try to get sprint removed… All because you think that would actually help make you good at Halo again (you won’t be either way).
>
> Good luck trying to “win,” this thread - your “all or nothing,” approach to sprint in this debate could really win you something of value in life, right? As if you can almost make any sort of a difference in the next Halo game by getting into shouting matches with your fellow fans and perpetuating a toxic environment in the threads… Almost anyway but whatever helps you kids sleep at night. Hey- I’ll drink a cold one just for you guys when they inevitably announce that the next Halo game will feature sprint and larger maps.
Literally what you’ve been doing…you just repeat the same thing over and over and over…and over, treat your opinions as facts and you even choose to ignore some of the arguments presented against you. I’m not a die-hard “anti-sprint enthusiast”, im a realist. I look at both sides of the argument and see which is logically the better option.
I was a pro sprinter early in this game’s life span, but it’s clear that it’s doing more harm than good to the game. Say whatever you want about me it’s not gonna change the fact that you lost this “debate” a long time ago.
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> > 2533274867266391;11504:
> > Why are you guys still arguing with this SiN SHOOT2KILL guy? All of his arguments have thoroughly been dismantled and he’s clearly not gonna change his mind. You guys are just wasting your time it’s like talking to a brick wall this guy.
>
>
> While there’s a certain fun aspect to reiteration of your values for a game you love, and showing your passion for it, it’s also about just getting your view/point out there, rather than not speaking up at all, no matter who speaks up against you. I’d much rather go in circles about sprint, rather than just be quiet, you know?
I see your point.
Fight on valiant soldier! (You’re gonna need it with this guy)
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> > 2535466533436400;11507:
> > yes, they ring a bell. But their base movement speeds are much faster than Halo 2 or 3’s base speeds.
>
>
> Is that true? Anyways, FoV is so low in Halo games (especially Halo 3) that is makes them feel slow. Increasing the FoV would do a lot in that regard. Ideally Halo 6 should have a FoV slider like a handful of other games on Xbox One do. I’m fairly certain that 343i said this feature was coming to the Halo 5: Forge PC port, so I think it’s at least somewhat likely that you could see that in Halo 6.
>
> This and this are good examples of what I am talking about. The games look and feel a lot faster, but nothing changed other than the FoV. If your primary reason for wanting sprint is to make the game feel faster, this would be a much better option without all of the negatives.
In the case of Overwatch, I’m sure it’d depend on the character, but I’d be willing to bet that Halo 2/3 have the same movement speed as CS:GO, but the terrible FoV makes them seem like slogfests. Also, that 150 FoV on Halo 3. Holy balls does that seem crisp and quick, bar the hilariously awkward FPS view.
Leave sprint in halo going forward that’s all I have to say
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> Fight on valiant soldier! (You’re gonna need it with this guy)
Aya. Although, if recent events are actually for realzies, I don’t think we’re gonna be fighting this anymore. However…
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> I was a pro sprinter early in this game’s life span, but it’s clear that it’s doing more harm than good to the game.
To be a former pro sprinter, and say this. Man, that takes something. To look at everything in retrospect and say that? Props to you.
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> > 2533274867266391;11504:
> > Fight on valiant soldier! (You’re gonna need it with this guy)
>
>
> Aya. Although, if recent events are actually for realzies, I don’t think we’re gonna be fighting this anymore. However…
>
>
> > 2533274867266391;11504:
> > I was a pro sprinter early in this game’s life span, but it’s clear that it’s doing more harm than good to the game.
>
>
> To be a former pro sprinter, and say this. Man, that takes something. To look at everything in retrospect and say that? Props to you.
What do you mean by the first statement? What events?
Not really courage just more common sense, appreciate the support though.
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> What do you mean by the first statement? What events?
>
> Not really courage just more common sense, appreciate the support though.
With the first statement, I just refer to how he told me not to quote him anymore. Don’t think it’ll stop me, but, yunno. ¯_(ツ)_/¯
And to the latter, I mainly referred to pride. People being able to look at the bigger picture, even if they’re on one side of the fence initially, and thus change how they view things is honestly quite hard to find.
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> > 2533274867266391;11504:
> > What do you mean by the first statement? What events?
> >
> > Not really courage just more common sense, appreciate the support though.
>
>
> With the first statement, I just refer to how he told me not to quote him anymore. Don’t think it’ll stop me, but, yunno. ¯_(ツ)_/¯
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> And to the latter, I mainly referred to pride. People being able to look at the bigger picture, even if they’re on one side of the fence initially, and thus change how they view things is honestly quite hard to find.
Oh…you got me worked up there for a bit, I thought some news was revealed or something. Ended up looking frantically on the internet after you stated that not realizing I was only chasing my hopes and dreams 
Yeah, it’s a sad reality, but it is what it is I guess. There only thing I will NEVER change my mind about is football…but thats a whole other topic…GoRaiders.
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> Oh…you got me worked up there for a bit, I thought some news was revealed or something. Ended up looking frantically on the internet after you stated that not realizing I was only chasing my hopes and dreams
RIIIIIIP. I’ll be honest, sprint’s removal in Halo 6 wouldn’t be a shocker to me. Apparently the controversial nature of sprint made 343i consider almost not even implementing it into Halo 5. With how popular non-sprint games are becoming, I think we may be able to see a Halo 6 without it. Can only hope.
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Beetle Blast wrote:
didn’t even bother reading it because it is the dumbest topic out there right now. Just because it has sprint doesn’t mean its not Halo. It’s one whole mechanic, that’s it. If you don’t like sprint, don’t sprint. Problem solved.
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> So I’m saying that you and/or SiN SHOOT2KILL can’t just say that sprint adds depth to the game because it’s created by the players.
Not my argument. All I was saying that “it adds randomness” is not a valid argument against sprint. I never said sprint adds depth.
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> What does predict mean?
I guess in the stricter sense, you can take predictions here to mean educated guesses where the probability of guessing right differs significantly from blind guessing. If you’re willing to go a bit looser, a prediction is just an educated guess. Ultimately, the important part is that predictions use prior knowledge to make the choice, whereas a blind guess is just a choice without motivation.
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> The same can be said about sprint. Are you able to predict or are you forced to guess?
Is there anything fundamentally unpredictable about sprint? Players are still moving with goals and their own worries. Maps still direct flow in a particular way. I fail to see how a bump in maximum movement speed would suddenly turn a reasonably predictable situation into a completely unpredictable one.
But it’s never about whether it’s predictable or whether it’s completely unpredictable. It’s about whether it’s less predictable than optimal, or more predictable. “Are you forced to guess?” is not the right question to ask. The right one to ask is “do we want this much uncertainty in player predictions?”. Or perhaps the most ideal perspective to take on this is that we want the gap between prediction performance of top level and bottom level players to be as large as possible.
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> How can you predict your opponents moves, when everyone has the ability to change their speed whenever they feel like it?
Easy, just look at any of the first three Halo games.
Jokes aside, if you think players being able to change their speed is the problem, you’re on the wrong track. A player can always move an arbitrary distance in a given time between the distance allowed by their maximum speed, and standing still. The only thing sprint changes here is the distance allowed by maximum speed. And you can see that whether you give players sprint, or a higher base movement speed, the effect is identical. I don’t know if you’re one of the higher base movement speed advocates, but this is something to think about. I am, but I’m not bothered by it.
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> Can it be done consistently?
I guess the answer to this question depends on the interpretation of “consistently”.
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> And is this subjective or can it be measured?
It’s definitely not subjective. It’s just really hard to get any sort of data out of players making predictions because you’d have to go through hours of gameplay footage, and be able to pinpoint when the player makes a decision based on a prediction, and be able to know how many alternative options were there. And then you’d have to be able to do some aggregate analysis on the data you collected.
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> The tragedy behind sprints flow prediction is that while it makes flow prediction harder, it also makes it more random. There will be times where you’ll have your numbers down but that guy just happened to be there because there were so many options and routes he could take and to kill him you should have just gotten lucky like he did. I think that we should get rid of those free kills and deaths that sprint provides. It’s not like the flow of the PvP environment was obvious in any Halo ever.
Luck happens in any game that requires even a small amount of skill. A novice chess player unknowingly makes an awesome move, a schoolboy scores a cross-field basket, a player chucks a plasma grenade across the map and sticks the flag carrier. Luck happens. It’s completely unpreventable. There will be times when people get lucky.
If you go down that route—that we should get rid of those free kiills and deaths sprint provides—maybe you should also ask that we should get rid of all those free kills and deaths that grenades provide, or rocket launchers, or weapons in general. After all, we don’t want those pesky noobs accidentally getting four-shot kills, do we? And what about strafing? It’s literally about being as unpredictable as you can. We want none of that stuff, do we? In this game, everybody should just stand in a straight line taking turns to shoot each other. Only then have we completely gotten rid of those free kills and deaths that the mechanics of the game provide.
To be serious, I understand where you’re coming from, but you’re explaining it in the worst way possible. Made up sob stories about players getting lucky kills aren’t convincing. The problem here is that we don’t really know where sprintless Halo was on this spectrum of predictability in relation to the optimum, and we don’t know what the effect of sprint on that was. You can try to make an argument as you want, but personally I find myself unable to say anything one way or the other.
For convenience’s sake, Imma once again put my counterpoints/agreements/whatever inside the quote this time.
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> Have we seen Speed Boost in a traditional Halo before though? I’ve never been in the competitive scene, so I can’t comment on that, or Halo 3 and Reach’s custom power ups. When making the suggestion, I was thinking about having all the Armor Abilities like this, as pickups. I never even thought about what was going to be in the pool of abilities, since it’s up to the developers.
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> - We have not, probably because of the lack of a need for one, on top of other issues involving them. However, when you refer to all pickups, as you said, these have to co-exist with a possibly ability riddled environment, or one akin to Halo CE to 3. The former would be super chaotic. Imagine having a jetpack, or even faster boost ability pickup, in a game where you already have thrusters, sprint, ground pound and the like.
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> Couldn’t that “super jarring/can’t counter” argument be applied to weapons as well? You know a shotgun, energy sword, or whatever spawns in the area you’re turning into, but you don’t know if the enemy you saw on your radar, or heard, picked it up or not. Yeah, they might have a height advantage, but don’t the rocks and semi-claustrophobic design of Sanctuary mostly neglect that advantage? Good map design can neglect any significant advantage of jetpack and other abilities while still making the original game very playable without them.
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> - See, that’s the thing about power weapons, they can be uncounterable, sure, but jarring? I think not, mainly because you know where power weapons spawn, you know where they’ll work most effectively if you have experience in gme, and in the case it’s gone from where you’d pick it up, you have a semblance of an idea of where to go, and where to not go/tread lightly. If you think you’re in danger of encountering someone against you holding said weapon, you’d be much better off backing off, than attempting to decide on going forward if you have that uncertainty. You have control over the scenario, because you decide whether or not to close that gap in the first place, assuming we go by the scenario where you have “that hunch”. You have the power over the power weapon until you give the advantage to them, assuming you play the map smart, and know your stuff.
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> That isn’t exactly the case with jetpack. There’re many areas of Sanctuary (and other maps that, while not exposed from a forward X axis, are exposed on the y axis upwards, such as the base ramps, or the rocky areas, the latter of which are claustrophobic, mainly from a forward view.) With that, there’re many times where I’ve hidden behind a certain ramp or rock, thinking about that x axis only, only to be headshotted because the other user fighting me had a jetpack I didn’t know of until he began to use it when I took cover. I had control of the scenario, and took cover, but had that control yanked from me because of an ability I didn’t know of, and couldn’t exactly predict for in that moment, unlike a power weapon. And that’s compounded by how you may not even have said armor ability and thus overlook it entirely, more so.
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> It mostly boils back to “you won’t be able to counter/predict for it until you see it in use”, something that power weapons don’t necessarily have. You can predict choke points where a user may camp with a CQC weapon, or attempt to gain distance with a long range one, such as tower on Guardian or Lockout. But Jetpack (And by proxy, most abilities) doesn’t have that, exactly. There are no choke points for jetpack’s use, because it goes upwards in direction, into an unrestricted sky, and in the same breath, they also give the opposing player another avenue for movement that you may not have, nor normally account for because you possibly lack said ability. That just leads to more unpredictability.
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> I’m guessing you’re talking about competitive, and I completely agree with your points if it’s only for competitive, but the casual community is the one that helps push the competitive aspect of the game into the mainstream (Counter-Strike, Overwatch, League of Legends, Call of Duty, Street Fighter, Super Smash Bros, Tekken, Starcraft, and DoTA). If AAs were treated to be more like power ups, wouldn’t people complain that the series never changes (if 4 and 5 never released)? The casual community is way larger than the competitive community, and I’d like to see most of them come back to Halo. MLG, ESL, and whatever tournaments there are can just change the game settings to their liking because of custom games (if 343 doesn’t interfere or call the shots in the competitive community), while the casual audience can still play a fun, fast, and mostly balanced game.
> - To be honest, the question is hard to answer, specifically, maybe because it’s so subjective, maybe because I’m super tired. I personally don’t think people would complain given how different the games are in general, on top of the lack of complaints surrounding equipment and power ups and their similarities/crossover, for example. Also, while I personally think and agree that the casual community’s a really big anchor for your game, I don’t think they exactly push comp aspects outwards. I definitely think they hold your game up and push it out, though.
I don’t get it. If everyone were to sprint, then they would get an advantage in killing the enemy more easily. But if everyone didn’t sprint then the gameplay would be much slower plus you wouldn’t be able to evade quicker like say the Kraken level (Enemy Lines). Personally, I don’t even care if it is there because I sprint and don’t sprint at the same time. And what is with the Spartan abilities Thread. Why is everyone complaining about 343i’s methods. They aren’t Bungie but they’re themselves. Obviously they want to create a different Halo to show different story lines but can you just accept the fact that they want it different and evolve it to be a better Halo game. When there was no sprint, you couldn’t just skip past the enemies and find the secret. In Halo 4,5 and possibly 6, you can skip the enemies to find the secret hidden Skull or the Mission Intel.