The sprint discussion thread

> 2625759425619671;11479:
> 1) For convenience’s sake I’m going to shorten this down to any points that might have anything new to offer (versus the “continual loop” of arguing for the sake of it which is where you’re taking the rest of those points… Make no mistake, I’m not conceding on those points and you aren’t swimming in a “sea of right,” because I’m not responding to them. I’m trying to spare the rest of the people in this thread having to hear any more useless bickering from this new argument with you).
>
> 7) You equally provided “no definitive evidence,” regarding your “map widening to fit sprint” theory. I gave you the answers you’re asking for but you just ignored them. Neutralizing sprint comes down to effective team play and controlling the map, among other things that I’ve already told you. I stated two replies ago: “You can absolutely make pushes reliably in Halo 5. Winning games in Arena quite often comes down to the team making effective pushes to win games, but also boils down to map control, team shots, and shooting better than your opponents in 1v1 situations. When people try to sprint away from me and my team they almost always get pushed and funneled to their doom because of our teamwork to include: effective pushes, proper position, and retaining of map control.” If you do those basic things that you’re supposed to do anyway to win competitive games (properly) than sprint will not be a factor in the game.
>
> 8) I’ve spoken to a ton of Halo fans about sprint.
>
> 11) Yes you actually can sprint and shoot at the same time in Call of Duty. It’s called the Gung-Ho Perk.

1.) If your excuse to not respond is “for the sake of others”, I’m taking that as an admittance of defeat, because that isn’t an excuse, given people argue the exact same thing alongside us. If you want to try and prove you’re right, then push your point, don’t back off because others may potentially get annoyed at a legitimate back and forth, which… Is still a weak excuse, given this is literally a forum designed for discussion, debates and arguments. It’s going to happen. It’s expected to. If people don’t like us debating the ups and downs of sprint/BMS/gameplay integrity, then so what? We’re still operating within the forums rules. It doesn’t harm anyone but us, because we’re the only ones who need to read what the other says to ensure this goes forth. Besides, it’s far from useless. You may not see us going anywhere, but I entirely see where this argument’s gone and why it has gone as such. I think others can too.

7.) Yes, but you realize that when your opponent sprints from you, and you need to chase and set up to the kill them, map control means nothing, because the opponent isn’t being funneled TO you, and your advantageous position and you need to leave said position to fight them. And you also know that, due to Halo’s slower pace, team shooting’s inevitable? That’s what happens when average kill times in a game are over a second with the game’s utility and escape is empowered due to abilities. You’re not empowered individually, and thus need team shot to some extent to be able to do anything against groups of opponents, or else you’re gonna run, because you can’t do anything against two users in an outright fight. “Shooting better than your opponents in a 1v1” is just a basic tactic in any game.

_You also forget that the entire response there was written in response to a post I wrote on prediction, and had nothing to do with these points. I don’t get why this was brought up again when its own relevance is next to null with what it responded to, initially. And at that, it has nothing to do with proving how maps and lanes aren’t stretched, which was your initial point on that paragraph. What does “neutralizing sprint” via in game decisions have to do with map design. It’s literally the epitome of irrelevant to this argument._I’ve repeatedly spoken on maps that obviously have been altered due to sprint. Again, compare a map like Guardian, or Heretic, to a map like Plaza, or Solace. You can clearly see lanes are stretched width and length wise, on top of more routes for engagement being added, compared to non-sprint maps. Stuff like that is legitimately observable and unarguable in any sense but a solid comparison. It isn’t even a theory. I don’t get how “theory” came in as a new word to try and disprove it, but it is so far from a theory, given developers haven’t spoken on it specifically as well, one link I think was posted earlier. It’s not a theory. It’s a fact.

8.) Have you spoken to the hundreds of thousands that have legitimately left, though?

11.) So… It’s a perk… Not a thing you do naturally, with what you’re given. You know that doesn’t encompass the entire game, right? And that it isn’t justification for how Halo 5’s sprint is somehow unique with being guns down, because CoD’s natural sprint is exactly like Halo 5’s.

> 2535439149692170;11482:
> Sprint has destroyed the MP side of halo. That’s why people get so heated over this topic shoot2kill.

I do understand and even sympathize with fans that feel that way… My hope is that the next Halo will provide something that will give all fans a reason to enjoy Halo. The only way to do that will be for fans to ask 343i for a split settings compromise. Otherwise there will be a group of fans left out in the dark on this one, one way or the other. It doesn’t have to be an “all or nothing,” approach to this issue.

<mark>This post has been edited by a moderator. Please refrain from making non-constructive posts.</mark>

*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

> 2533274886529017;11484:
> > 2625759425619671;11479:
> >
>
>
> If your excuse to not respond is “for the sake of others”, I’m taking that as an admittance of defeat

Don’t even- how about you just stop quoting me altogether?
Your opinions are not well thought out and not appreciated. But don’t kid yourself with any notions of “winning,” for the sole reason that you’re impossible to debate with in the first place. I’m asking you to stop trying to take me into “continual loop,” arguments by no longer quoting me or saying anything to me or about me. I’m here to participate in a contructive debate about sprint not to get into a shouting contest with you. I don’t care how you want to internalize that but in this thread it doesn’t mean that you’ve won or “destroyed,” “debunked,” “dismembered,” or any other objectives that you came into this argument with to try and accomplish regarding my pro sprint opinions. You just accomplished being a jerk. That’s it- you win that argument, hands down. Now leave me alone.

> 2625759425619671;11485:
> Otherwise there will be a group of fans left out in the dark on this one, one way or the other.

I mean, that sure was the case going into Reach and 4 for long time fans, bud. There was a LARGE group of people left out in the dark. They’re not around anymore.

> 2625759425619671;11406:
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> > > > > > > > > 2625759425619671;10942:
> > > > > > > > > > 2535450703392903;10941:
> > > > > > > > > > Debating about the polls is silly. No matter the result of them, they don’t matter. This is a creative medium.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Success in creative mediums is often attained by subverting expectations and giving people something they didn’t expect to love but end up loving.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > “Anti sprinters” are convinced replacing sprint with high BMS will do this and no data exists that can disprove this theory.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Equally along those lines no data exists that can prove such a theory… This being the creative medium that it is, all we can do is discuss the issue with fellow fans that are not all like-minded regarding sprint. Personally, I think I’ve heard and seen many points supporting why one high BMS will definitely not replace sprint and would make Halo worse… Anti sprinters would tell you different, but I do agree insofar that no one should be here with the intention to “disprove,” “dismantle,” and/or “destroy,” opinions from our fellow fans about this.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I got three reasons for you.
> > > > > > > > 1. Halo: CE
> > > > > > > > 2. Halo 2
> > > > > > > > 3. Halo 3
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I’ve got three reasons for you.
> > > > > > > 1) Reach
> > > > > > > 2) Halo 4
> > > > > > > 3) Halo 5
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Reach, 4 & 5 are the three most controversial Halo titles.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > What evidence to you have to support that opinion?
> > > > >
> > > > > Sure Halo used to be more popular but there are a large number of factor in play as to why an overall decline of popularity has taken place. My point is that one in game mechanic has little to do with pressure an increase in competition from other FPS titles, games, and platforms. Either way Reach, 4, and 5 have still been successful.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Halo is diverting from what made it succesful, and sprint is a major diversion.
> > >
> > >
> > > Do you have any real argument to support that stance? Posting the titles of Halo games doesn’t really do anything. There are a wide array of reasons why Halo could be less popular than it once was- it’s arguable that it could have been even less popular without changing up the formula in each title. They can’t very well just package up an expansion pack and market it as a sequel, because other than that there’s no way to avoid “diverting,” from previous titles when Halo sequels are launched.
> >
> >
> > There are many ways to change up halo without incoporating sprint. Halo CE, 2 & 3 proved that.
>
>
> No they didn’t. All you’re doing is posting the titles of those games and using that to try and “prove,” things. Sprint has remained in Halo for the past 3 AAA titles in the franchise because it fits in well in Halo. Halo Reach, Halo 4, and Halo 5 have proven that sprint can become a core mechanic of gameplay and should stay in Halo.

Sprint is a core mechanic that has not proven well for Halo. The maps in Reach, 4 and 5 are not very good. I did like Zealot, Countdown and Skyline though, to name a few.

> 2625759425619671;11479:
> Don’t even- how about you just stop quoting me altogether?
>
> Your opinions are not well thought out and not appreciated. But don’t kid yourself win any notions of “winning,” for the sole purposes that you’re impossible to debate with in the first place. I’m asking you to stop trying to take me into “continual loop,” arguments by no longer quoting me or saying anything to me or about me. I’m here to participate in a contructive debate about sprint not to get into a shouting contest with you. I don’t care how you want to internalize that but in this thread it doesn’t mean that you’ve won or “destroyed,” “debunked,” “dismembered,” or any other objectives (That’s adjective.) that you came into this argument to try and accomplish. You just accomplished being a jerk. That’s it- you win that argument, hands down.

I mean, as others have shown here, I’m not impossible to debate with at all. I’m very hard to argue with legitimately, given I don’t just bend easily or accept wrong points at face value, but people have spoken with me here before and understood what I’ve been saying without taking it as an attack, or me being some figurative forum cop. The amount of support I get for my comments just shows and confirms that I do indeed have well thought out and appreciated thoughts by the community in this very thread, soooooo, yeah. They’re not appreciated by you, sure, but others love them. But, I guess it’s fine if you want to boil it down to me being a meanie-bo-beanie who engages in metaphorical shouting contests, just because I actually firmly, and relentlessly argue (Constructively at that.) with you, rather than just letting your points slide.

> 2625759425619671;11485:
> > 2535439149692170;11482:
> > Sprint has destroyed the MP side of halo. That’s why people get so heated over this topic shoot2kill.
>
>
> I do understand and even sympathize with fans that feel that way… My hope is that the next Halo will provide something that will give all fans a reason to enjoy Halo. The only way to do that will be for fans to ask 343i for a split settings compromise. Otherwise there will be a group of fans left out in the dark on this one, one way or the other. It doesn’t have to be an “all or nothing,” approach to this issue.

Dropping sprint completely is the best route.

> 2535439149692170;11490:
> > 2625759425619671;11485:
> > > 2535439149692170;11482:
> > > Sprint has destroyed the MP side of halo. That’s why people get so heated over this topic shoot2kill.
> >
> >
> > I do understand and even sympathize with fans that feel that way… My hope is that the next Halo will provide something that will give all fans a reason to enjoy Halo. The only way to do that will be for fans to ask 343i for a split settings compromise. Otherwise there will be a group of fans left out in the dark on this one, one way or the other. It doesn’t have to be an “all or nothing,” approach to this issue.
>
>
> Dropping sprint completely is the best route.

Disagree I believe that keep sprint is the best route… Albeit there can be a compromise.

<mark>This post has been edited by a moderator. Please refrain from making non-constructive posts.</mark>

*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

> 2625759425619671;11491:
> > 2535439149692170;11490:
> > > 2625759425619671;11485:
> > > > 2535439149692170;11482:
> > > > Sprint has destroyed the MP side of halo. That’s why people get so heated over this topic shoot2kill.
> > >
> > >
> > > I do understand and even sympathize with fans that feel that way… My hope is that the next Halo will provide something that will give all fans a reason to enjoy Halo. The only way to do that will be for fans to ask 343i for a split settings compromise. Otherwise there will be a group of fans left out in the dark on this one, one way or the other. It doesn’t have to be an “all or nothing,” approach to this issue.
> >
> >
> > Dropping sprint completely is the best route.
>
>
> Disagree I believe that keep sprint is the best route… Albeit there can be a compromise.

Ya, but you’re wrong. So, ya.

<mark>This post has been edited by a moderator. Please refrain from making non-constructive posts.</mark>

*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

> 2533274886529017;11489:
> > 2625759425619671;11479:
> > Don’t even- how about you just stop quoting me altogether?
>
>
> I mean…

Stop quoting me. I have nothing else to say to you. You have no ability to be open minded in this debate whatsoever. Stop talking to me. I don’t care what you have to say to me as your opinions are so bias and so one-sided you aren’t debating- you’re shouting, you’re disagreeing with literally everything remotely pro sprint- no matter what. Maybe one day you’ll learn the difference between mindless arguing and constructive debating but I don’t care to find out if that day will ever come. Arguing with you is entirely pointless because all you’ll do say the opposite as me regardless of facts or opinions on the matter. You are the virtual equivalent of David Spade from the Captital One “No,” Commercials in this debate. Everything you’re saying to me is a waste of your time at this point- just save it.

<mark>This post has been edited by a moderator. Please refrain from making non-constructive posts.</mark>

*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

> 2535439149692170;11492:
> > 2625759425619671;11491:
> > > 2535439149692170;11490:
> > > > 2625759425619671;11485:
> > > > > 2535439149692170;11482:
> > > > > Sprint has destroyed the MP side of halo. That’s why people get so heated over this topic shoot2kill.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I do understand and even sympathize with fans that feel that way… My hope is that the next Halo will provide something that will give all fans a reason to enjoy Halo. The only way to do that will be for fans to ask 343i for a split settings compromise. Otherwise there will be a group of fans left out in the dark on this one, one way or the other. It doesn’t have to be an “all or nothing,” approach to this issue.
> > >
> > >
> > > Dropping sprint completely is the best route.
> >
> >
> > Disagree I believe that keep sprint is the best route… Albeit there can be a compromise.
>
>
> Ya, but you’re wrong. So, ya.

No you’re wrong… So, ya

> 2533274866906624;11488:
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> > > > > > > > 2625759425619671;10951:
> > > > > > > > > 2533274866906624;10950:
> > > > > > > > > > 2625759425619671;10942:
> > > > > > > > > > > 2535450703392903;10941:
> > > > > > > > > > > Debating about the polls is silly. No matter the result of them, they don’t matter. This is a creative medium.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Success in creative mediums is often attained by subverting expectations and giving people something they didn’t expect to love but end up loving.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > “Anti sprinters” are convinced replacing sprint with high BMS will do this and no data exists that can disprove this theory.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Equally along those lines no data exists that can prove such a theory… This being the creative medium that it is, all we can do is discuss the issue with fellow fans that are not all like-minded regarding sprint. Personally, I think I’ve heard and seen many points supporting why one high BMS will definitely not replace sprint and would make Halo worse… Anti sprinters would tell you different, but I do agree insofar that no one should be here with the intention to “disprove,” “dismantle,” and/or “destroy,” opinions from our fellow fans about this.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I got three reasons for you.
> > > > > > > > > 1. Halo: CE
> > > > > > > > > 2. Halo 2
> > > > > > > > > 3. Halo 3
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I’ve got three reasons for you.
> > > > > > > > 1) Reach
> > > > > > > > 2) Halo 4
> > > > > > > > 3) Halo 5
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Reach, 4 & 5 are the three most controversial Halo titles.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What evidence to you have to support that opinion?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sure Halo used to be more popular but there are a large number of factor in play as to why an overall decline of popularity has taken place. My point is that one in game mechanic has little to do with pressure an increase in competition from other FPS titles, games, and platforms. Either way Reach, 4, and 5 have still been successful.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Halo is diverting from what made it succesful, and sprint is a major diversion.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Do you have any real argument to support that stance? Posting the titles of Halo games doesn’t really do anything. There are a wide array of reasons why Halo could be less popular than it once was- it’s arguable that it could have been even less popular without changing up the formula in each title. They can’t very well just package up an expansion pack and market it as a sequel, because other than that there’s no way to avoid “diverting,” from previous titles when Halo sequels are launched.
> > >
> > >
> > > There are many ways to change up halo without incoporating sprint. Halo CE, 2 & 3 proved that.
> >
> >
> > No they didn’t. All you’re doing is posting the titles of those games and using that to try and “prove,” things. Sprint has remained in Halo for the past 3 AAA titles in the franchise because it fits in well in Halo. Halo Reach, Halo 4, and Halo 5 have proven that sprint can become a core mechanic of gameplay and should stay in Halo.
>
>
> Sprint is a core mechanic that has not proven well for Halo. The maps in Reach, 4 and 5 are not very good. I did like Zealot, Countdown and Skyline though, to name a few.

Sprint has evolved to suit Halo better over the years since it was first implemented into Halo. I think that Reach was alright but 4 and 5 were better.

> 2625759425619671;11479:
> Your opinions are so bias and so one-sided you aren’t debating- you’re shouting.

Yes. I’m shouting. Sorry, I’ll keep it down.

Idgaf bout sprint keep or nah idc. I’m pissed though because the recent halos (4-5) are trash. They just aren’t like the originals which were insanely amazing to play, still playing campaigns over and over. Reach and ODST had thrilling campaigns but 4 and 5 just don’t have it. I hope that they in the future do something similar to reach or ODST like a marine game or possibly one on the covenant. Different than just the master chief over and over again. If we had a new game based on something that’s not really focused on in halo, a great soundtrack and pvp then I would kill for it. Y’all feel me?

[deleted]

> 2535464451695009;11498:
> Disregarding a certain person’s awkward and poor debate style and self-inflicted mini-drama, what do you all think about having map pickup Armor Abilities as a compromise between having sprint and not having it?
>
> - Map design wouldn’t suffer (especially BTB) because the maps would be designed around the base game experience (no armor abilities, just the basic AR/magnum/2 frags loadout), and areas of the maps would be built to complement, not enhance, the AAs.
> - The game pace wouldn’t suffer much because only a small amount of people will have movement-affecting AAs that will drop on death and respawn if no one picks it up.
> - It would offer more options for the players to keep matches interesting, even in competitive settings.
> - It would be treated like power weapons, only some people will intentionally teamkill for it, but they’re going to get a temporary ban right after the match
> - It encourages equal starts, like what 343 wants while spicing up the gameplay
> - The core gameplay would bring back older fans and make Halo unique again. People won’t feel like they can just play Call of Duty if they want to play any FPS game.
> - Big Team Battle/Invasion/Warzone becomes more chaotic because the different number of abilities that are available.

Ehhhh, see, that was a thing they did in Reach. Certain maps like a remake of Sactuary meant for (v7, I think) had Jetpack pickups. The maps didn’t need to be designed around the abilities in that case, sure, but it was still super jarring, and led to some really dumb deaths, because one would run over a certain area, not knowing the other person had a Jetpack or were using it, and they’d potentially have an aerial advantage you don’t have and couldn’t properly counter. With things like OS, or Camo, they’re temporary, and don’t provide the user with an inherent advantage on the map (OS can be burned by a single Plasma bolt, and OS can be seen if you position yourself properly, which is actually a key strat to countering it, unlike a Jetpack, which could allow you to scale the map’s walls. OS and Camo don’t alter your base movement traits because you don’t need that in a powerup.

I WOULD however, possibly (Very big possibly) reconsider under certain tweaks. Make these things single use, for example. Make them operate like powerups. Although, to be honest, we’ve seen what a pseudo sprint power up does. Speed Boost, which amps your base movement speed.

Anyhow, if you had AAs tweaked to be more like powerups, I don’t think I’d have any issue, because you couldn’t use them indefinitely based on a recharge system, and you’d make people fight for them, on top of being predictable in their nature of spawning, and when they’re in use. But on the other side of the coin, I don’t think they’d entirely be good for gameplay if this hypothetical were to be realized. There’s a large difference in between an OS/Camo, and a potential speed boost, among other things, and to look at Reach as a crowning example, they removed sprint and armor abilities, but kept custom powerups/powerups. Because a secondary movement speed still has more issues than gains, such as escapability and a lack of predictability. You can predict and think about where an OS user, or a camo user would push, but sprint could literally take you anywhere. You know an OS user can’t move faster than you, and you have a specific key counter to it. Plasma, or automatic weapons. Camo is much more based on your sight and enemy awareness but the same with movement and positioning. But sprint/potential speed boosts are more so based on “when the enemy reaches you” and from where, given the speed boost also would open up more movement routes due to the increased forward momentum. I still think it’s redundant and bad.

But to also be honest, when you think of it, it’d also have to serve a purpose. I don’t want them there, solely to compromise if they just clutter the gamemode they’re in. Why would we need an AA to act as a new type of powerup when our own traits are good enough already without breaking pace in the same way an OS or camo doesn’t break pace. You know?

> 2535464451695009;11498:
> Disregarding a certain person’s awkward and poor debate style and self-inflicted mini-drama, what do you all think about having map pickup Armor Abilities as a compromise between having sprint and not having it?

Completely useless- keep sprint as a permanent ability and forget about map pick ups.

[deleted]

I disliked sprint at first, but now when i play one of the older games, i just feel slow.

I guess what it comes down to for me is how sprint works with the rest of the game. For example, i feel liked it worked well in Halo: Reach, but here in Halo 5, it’s kind of annoying.

Wow this thread is still going! I’m alright with sprint, just keep it to limited like Halo Reach’s and I’m good with it.