The sprint discussion thread

Games Halo 5: Guardians
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> > > > > > > > > > > > This guy must have the advanced thrusters mod on. Dodging questions like a pro!
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > What your thought process is, is A LOT different than the rest of us, even the other pro sprinters.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > To the contrary, my thought process lines up pretty closely with Josh Holmes (343i Executive Producer) when he advocated for sprint here and here.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I just want to seek a viable compromise, such as the potential for split settings/playlists in the next Halo game regarding sprint so that as many fans as possible will be satisfied with the game.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 4) Now that is just straight up wrong, no matter how you try to interpret it. It was Halo Reach, and everyone had a CHOICE of using sprint or not. Sprint or movement modifiers weren’t even a thing in Halo 3. I don’t know what series you’ve been playing, but Halo has never had map pickup abilities except for Camo and Overshields. You’re just reaching at this point.
> > > > >
> > > > > 3) Then you might as well play Battlefield with that logic. Why have two games that are almost essentially the same thing? Halo is about point blank-mid range engagements in Arena maps, and short-long range chaos in BTB, Invasion, and Warzone. Reducing map sizes isn’t going backwards, it’s to IMPROVE GAME FLOW of Arena maps, if and ONLY IF sprint isn’t included. I don’t remember if I told this to you or someone else, but Battlefield is about “simulating” warfare. Halo is about having controlled chaos, and the design of CE-Reach and 5 Arena show it. Low player counts, smaller and easy to learn maps, “equal” starts and map pickups, and mostly balanced equipment. Halo 4 is the only one to break most of these characteristics, and look at where that got Halo. Halo Reach had equal starts because everyone had the same Loadout options. It’s the same as League of Legend’s champions, but not as in-depth. If player count is increased, so too is randomness.
> > > > >
> > > > > 2) Ok then, prove it’s not related. If I play Battlefield at 120 FOV and never use vehicles, I feel fast when moving through Caspian Border and Siege of Shanghai because the edge of the screen moves faster than the middle of the screen. If I play those same maps at console FOV, I feel the need to use vehicles because my camera “isn’t going anywhere”. It’s directly related to player perception and whether sprint is needed or not. FOV may not solve pacing issues, but it artificially solves it by giving the perception that there are no pacing issues.
> > > > >
> > > > > 1) I might take that back if you don’t understand what I’m trying to say. I might ask you to reiterate and paraphrase before I do though.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 1) Just gonna let that one go entirely because there’s no point at all to continue down that train of thought that with you.
> > > >
> > > > 2) Battlefield isn’t Halo. Halo 3 had FOV issues and that game didn’t have sprint. Sprint could have helped game play in that game but either way that game demonstrated that FOV problems can (and did) still exist in Halo in the absence of any perceived sprint issues.
> > > >
> > > > 3) You’re the one who literally just used Battlefield as an example for 120 FOV so why couldn’t I tell you to “Just play Battlefield instead,” in just the same way you’re trying to tell me to do it in that point? Increasing map size can and will work in the next Halo if they just increase the player count and keep sprint (Increasing player count doesn’t just “increase randomness” as you’re suggesting it would… Increasing map sizes increases the fun factor and increasing the player count enables developers with the ability to create larger maps). You’re really only suggesting that “map sizes should be reduced,” in order to remain in line with your anti-sprint opinion. Outside of that there’s no reason to assume that larger maps can’t or won’t work for the next Halo title.
> > > >
> > > > 4) So after looking this up I found that the sprint power up was on CE, big whoop- it still created problems as the source explains.
> > >
> > >
> > > 1) I don’t think that you understand the impact of FoV in first person games.
> > >
> > > 2) I’m not going to sit here and say that Halo 3 doesn’t feel slow, it does, but saying that sprint should be added to the game shows a complete misunderstanding of how games work.
> >
> >
> > 1) Yes I do understand how FOV impacts FPS titles.
> >
> > 2) Since that’s how you chose to open and close (when summarizing) your post here then I’m naturally going to assume that that was your intent of the entire post… You just wanted to try and prove that I “show a complete misunderstanding of how games work,” which doesn’t even have anything to do with whether or not sprint should remain in Halo. Your intent was to try and prove why you think that I don’t understand how games work which is null IMO. And just like you admitted, Halo 3 does have FOV problems and that game didn’t feature sprint. You basically contradicted yourself because you’re acknowledging that I do have an understanding of FOV (and agreeing with me to an extent) only to flip around in the next sentence to accuse me of “show[ing] a complete misunderstanding of how games work.” I doubt that I would be able to make a point about how Halo 3 worked that you’d have to reluctantly agree to if that were truly the case.
>
>
> You said that sprint would have helped halo 3 feel faster. Something that doesn’t really make any sense. That’s why I said you don’t have a great understanding of games. Halo 3’s “speed” problem had nothing to do with how fast you moved and had 100% to do with the FoV. I think we agree on this point, but you also say that FoV and Sprint have nothing to do with each other, which is what I disagree with. A primary defense for Sprint in Halo is that it makes the games feel faster, a point that doesn’t make sense when you look at the increased FoV footage I posted before. People like to complain that the older games “feel slow” (particularly Halo 3) and that that is why Sprint should be in Halo. That’s what I’m talking about. FoV is why Halo 3 feels slow and not the lack of sprint.

I said that sprint would have enhanced gameplay in Halo 3. I’ll admit that there are other ways to make a game “feel faster,” and the effects of sprint “feeling,” any faster is debatable in and about itself. Still that statement wouldn’t necessarily demonstrate an understanding of video games one way or the other, even if you disagreed with it. Either way I don’t stand upon sprint “feeling faster,” as a great defense for having it in Halo.

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> > > > > > > > > > > > > This guy must have the advanced thrusters mod on. Dodging questions like a pro!
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > What your thought process is, is A LOT different than the rest of us, even the other pro sprinters.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > To the contrary, my thought process lines up pretty closely with Josh Holmes (343i Executive Producer) when he advocated for sprint here and here.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I just want to seek a viable compromise, such as the potential for split settings/playlists in the next Halo game regarding sprint so that as many fans as possible will be satisfied with the game.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 4) Now that is just straight up wrong, no matter how you try to interpret it. It was Halo Reach, and everyone had a CHOICE of using sprint or not. Sprint or movement modifiers weren’t even a thing in Halo 3. I don’t know what series you’ve been playing, but Halo has never had map pickup abilities except for Camo and Overshields. You’re just reaching at this point.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 3) Then you might as well play Battlefield with that logic. Why have two games that are almost essentially the same thing? Halo is about point blank-mid range engagements in Arena maps, and short-long range chaos in BTB, Invasion, and Warzone. Reducing map sizes isn’t going backwards, it’s to IMPROVE GAME FLOW of Arena maps, if and ONLY IF sprint isn’t included. I don’t remember if I told this to you or someone else, but Battlefield is about “simulating” warfare. Halo is about having controlled chaos, and the design of CE-Reach and 5 Arena show it. Low player counts, smaller and easy to learn maps, “equal” starts and map pickups, and mostly balanced equipment. Halo 4 is the only one to break most of these characteristics, and look at where that got Halo. Halo Reach had equal starts because everyone had the same Loadout options. It’s the same as League of Legend’s champions, but not as in-depth. If player count is increased, so too is randomness.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 2) Ok then, prove it’s not related. If I play Battlefield at 120 FOV and never use vehicles, I feel fast when moving through Caspian Border and Siege of Shanghai because the edge of the screen moves faster than the middle of the screen. If I play those same maps at console FOV, I feel the need to use vehicles because my camera “isn’t going anywhere”. It’s directly related to player perception and whether sprint is needed or not. FOV may not solve pacing issues, but it artificially solves it by giving the perception that there are no pacing issues.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1) I might take that back if you don’t understand what I’m trying to say. I might ask you to reiterate and paraphrase before I do though.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 1) Just gonna let that one go entirely because there’s no point at all to continue down that train of thought that with you.
> > > > >
> > > > > 2) Battlefield isn’t Halo. Halo 3 had FOV issues and that game didn’t have sprint. Sprint could have helped game play in that game but either way that game demonstrated that FOV problems can (and did) still exist in Halo in the absence of any perceived sprint issues.
> > > > >
> > > > > 3) You’re the one who literally just used Battlefield as an example for 120 FOV so why couldn’t I tell you to “Just play Battlefield instead,” in just the same way you’re trying to tell me to do it in that point? Increasing map size can and will work in the next Halo if they just increase the player count and keep sprint (Increasing player count doesn’t just “increase randomness” as you’re suggesting it would… Increasing map sizes increases the fun factor and increasing the player count enables developers with the ability to create larger maps). You’re really only suggesting that “map sizes should be reduced,” in order to remain in line with your anti-sprint opinion. Outside of that there’s no reason to assume that larger maps can’t or won’t work for the next Halo title.
> > > > >
> > > > > 4) So after looking this up I found that the sprint power up was on CE, big whoop- it still created problems as the source explains.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 1) I don’t think that you understand the impact of FoV in first person games.
> > > >
> > > > 2) I’m not going to sit here and say that Halo 3 doesn’t feel slow, it does, but saying that sprint should be added to the game shows a complete misunderstanding of how games work.
> > >
> > >
> > > 1) Yes I do understand how FOV impacts FPS titles.
> > >
> > > 2) Since that’s how you chose to open and close (when summarizing) your post here then I’m naturally going to assume that that was your intent of the entire post… You just wanted to try and prove that I “show a complete misunderstanding of how games work,” which doesn’t even have anything to do with whether or not sprint should remain in Halo. Your intent was to try and prove why you think that I don’t understand how games work which is null IMO. And just like you admitted, Halo 3 does have FOV problems and that game didn’t feature sprint. You basically contradicted yourself because you’re acknowledging that I do have an understanding of FOV (and agreeing with me to an extent) only to flip around in the next sentence to accuse me of “show[ing] a complete misunderstanding of how games work.” I doubt that I would be able to make a point about how Halo 3 worked that you’d have to reluctantly agree to if that were truly the case.
> >
> >
> > You said that sprint would have helped halo 3 feel faster. Something that doesn’t really make any sense. That’s why I said you don’t have a great understanding of games. Halo 3’s “speed” problem had nothing to do with how fast you moved and had 100% to do with the FoV. I think we agree on this point, but you also say that FoV and Sprint have nothing to do with each other, which is what I disagree with. A primary defense for Sprint in Halo is that it makes the games feel faster, a point that doesn’t make sense when you look at the increased FoV footage I posted before. People like to complain that the older games “feel slow” (particularly Halo 3) and that that is why Sprint should be in Halo. That’s what I’m talking about. FoV is why Halo 3 feels slow and not the lack of sprint.
>
>
> I said that sprint would have enhanced gameplay in Halo 3. I’ll admit that there are other ways to make a game “feel faster,” and the effects of sprint “feeling,” any faster is debatable in and about itself. Still that statement wouldn’t necessarily demonstrate an understanding of video games one way or the other, even if you disagreed with it. Either way I don’t stand upon sprint “feeling faster,” as a great defense for having it in Halo.

Okay. That’s good to know. It clarifies a lot. My question to you is why you think sprint would have enhanced Halo 3’s gameplay.

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> > > > At times I have hundreds of players on my friends list playing Halo 5, with several dozen being the fewest that are ever on at the oddest hours of the day… I can’t tell you why you don’t have friends playing Halo, but in the words of the house at Vegas, “You gotta play to win.” If you played Halo more often yourself you could build up your friends list with fellow Halo gamers to be as large as you want it to be.
>
>
> And by the way, I can make that claim any time of the day. I can go on to Online Barbie Dreamland, and add every person i play with. I guess that makes Online Barbie Dreamland really popular because everyone on my friends list is playing it

This discussion isn’t about “Online Barbie Dreamland,” or your preference of which games you like to play online- it’s about sprint and its effects on Halo. If you want to dress up and play house with Ken then go right ahead and do you. My point is that there are still tons of people playing Halo- If someone doesn’t play a lot of Halo then it makes sense they wouldn’t see a lot of their friends playing Halo either. That doesn’t mean that you cannot make friends with people who actually do play Halo either. Regardless sprint doesn’t have anything to do with your selection of your own friend group on XBL.

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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > This guy must have the advanced thrusters mod on. Dodging questions like a pro!
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > What your thought process is, is A LOT different than the rest of us, even the other pro sprinters.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > To the contrary, my thought process lines up pretty closely with Josh Holmes (343i Executive Producer) when he advocated for sprint here and here.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I just want to seek a viable compromise, such as the potential for split settings/playlists in the next Halo game regarding sprint so that as many fans as possible will be satisfied with the game.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 4) Now that is just straight up wrong, no matter how you try to interpret it. It was Halo Reach, and everyone had a CHOICE of using sprint or not. Sprint or movement modifiers weren’t even a thing in Halo 3. I don’t know what series you’ve been playing, but Halo has never had map pickup abilities except for Camo and Overshields. You’re just reaching at this point.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 3) Then you might as well play Battlefield with that logic. Why have two games that are almost essentially the same thing? Halo is about point blank-mid range engagements in Arena maps, and short-long range chaos in BTB, Invasion, and Warzone. Reducing map sizes isn’t going backwards, it’s to IMPROVE GAME FLOW of Arena maps, if and ONLY IF sprint isn’t included. I don’t remember if I told this to you or someone else, but Battlefield is about “simulating” warfare. Halo is about having controlled chaos, and the design of CE-Reach and 5 Arena show it. Low player counts, smaller and easy to learn maps, “equal” starts and map pickups, and mostly balanced equipment. Halo 4 is the only one to break most of these characteristics, and look at where that got Halo. Halo Reach had equal starts because everyone had the same Loadout options. It’s the same as League of Legend’s champions, but not as in-depth. If player count is increased, so too is randomness.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 2) Ok then, prove it’s not related. If I play Battlefield at 120 FOV and never use vehicles, I feel fast when moving through Caspian Border and Siege of Shanghai because the edge of the screen moves faster than the middle of the screen. If I play those same maps at console FOV, I feel the need to use vehicles because my camera “isn’t going anywhere”. It’s directly related to player perception and whether sprint is needed or not. FOV may not solve pacing issues, but it artificially solves it by giving the perception that there are no pacing issues.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > 1) I might take that back if you don’t understand what I’m trying to say. I might ask you to reiterate and paraphrase before I do though.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1) Just gonna let that one go entirely because there’s no point at all to continue down that train of thought that with you.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 2) Battlefield isn’t Halo. Halo 3 had FOV issues and that game didn’t have sprint. Sprint could have helped game play in that game but either way that game demonstrated that FOV problems can (and did) still exist in Halo in the absence of any perceived sprint issues.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 3) You’re the one who literally just used Battlefield as an example for 120 FOV so why couldn’t I tell you to “Just play Battlefield instead,” in just the same way you’re trying to tell me to do it in that point? Increasing map size can and will work in the next Halo if they just increase the player count and keep sprint (Increasing player count doesn’t just “increase randomness” as you’re suggesting it would… Increasing map sizes increases the fun factor and increasing the player count enables developers with the ability to create larger maps). You’re really only suggesting that “map sizes should be reduced,” in order to remain in line with your anti-sprint opinion. Outside of that there’s no reason to assume that larger maps can’t or won’t work for the next Halo title.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 4) So after looking this up I found that the sprint power up was on CE, big whoop- it still created problems as the source explains.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 1) I don’t think that you understand the impact of FoV in first person games.
> > > > >
> > > > > 2) I’m not going to sit here and say that Halo 3 doesn’t feel slow, it does, but saying that sprint should be added to the game shows a complete misunderstanding of how games work.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 1) Yes I do understand how FOV impacts FPS titles.
> > > >
> > > > 2) Since that’s how you chose to open and close (when summarizing) your post here then I’m naturally going to assume that that was your intent of the entire post… You just wanted to try and prove that I “show a complete misunderstanding of how games work,” which doesn’t even have anything to do with whether or not sprint should remain in Halo. Your intent was to try and prove why you think that I don’t understand how games work which is null IMO. And just like you admitted, Halo 3 does have FOV problems and that game didn’t feature sprint. You basically contradicted yourself because you’re acknowledging that I do have an understanding of FOV (and agreeing with me to an extent) only to flip around in the next sentence to accuse me of “show[ing] a complete misunderstanding of how games work.” I doubt that I would be able to make a point about how Halo 3 worked that you’d have to reluctantly agree to if that were truly the case.
> >
> >
> > I said that sprint would have enhanced gameplay in Halo 3. I’ll admit thiat there are other ways to make a game “feel faster,” and the effects of sprint “feeling,” any faster is debatable in and about itself. Still that statement wouldn’t necessarily demonstrate an understanding of video games one way or the other, even if you disagreed with it. Either way I don’t stand upon sprint “feeling faster,” as a great defense for having it in Halo.
>
>
> Okay. That’s good to know. It clarifies a lot. My question to you is why you think sprint would have enhanced Halo 3’s gameplay.

I’ve argued that immersion, lore, realism and predictive combat are major topics for discussion as to why sprint is good for Halo (Here and here were good summaries of those points as I can’t fit them all into one post). A lot of my sentiments as to why I feel that sprint is good for Halo also happen to be shared by 343i’s Executive Producer Josh Holmes. However in Halo 3’s case, particularly on larger BTB maps, I have argued that players having to walk at one BMS was a problem in the game. I’ll give it to you- messing around with FOV can address that same issue as you clearly outlined in your articulated posts about it. My point is that so can sprint, and I happen to think that sprint is a better option for the reasons above. Oh yeah, and player choice- why spend so much time tweaking FOV when you can just empower players with the ability to choose to move faster when the situation calls for it? Furthermore I’ve also pushed for a split settings compromise on this issue in order to 1) enable players to choose to enter playlists with or without sprint and 2) 343i could then collect and analyze data to determine how popular sprint really is in Halo.

11428

Honestly, sprint never made much sense to me, though it’s too late to get 343 devil spark-oh, I mean 343 to change their minds. Thanks for reading.

11429

i really appreciated sprint it help dodge needles and gave grenades momentum

11430

Why do people think sprinting is all that bad?

11431

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> > > > > At times I have hundreds of players on my friends list playing Halo 5, with several dozen being the fewest that are ever on at the oddest hours of the day… I can’t tell you why you don’t have friends playing Halo, but in the words of the house at Vegas, “You gotta play to win.” If you played Halo more often yourself you could build up your friends list with fellow Halo gamers to be as large as you want it to be.
> >
> >
> > And by the way, I can make that claim any time of the day. I can go on to Online Barbie Dreamland, and add every person i play with. I guess that makes Online Barbie Dreamland really popular because everyone on my friends list is playing it
>
>
> This discussion isn’t about “Online Barbie Dreamland,” or your preference of which games you like to play online- it’s about sprint and its effects on Halo. If you want to dress up and play house with Ken then go right ahead and do you. My point is that there are still tons of people playing Halo- If someone doesn’t play a lot of Halo then it makes sense they wouldn’t see a lot of their friends playing Halo either. That doesn’t mean that you cannot make friends with people who actually do play Halo either. Regardless sprint doesn’t have anything to do with your selection of your own friend group on XBL.

Sprint is one of the game mechanics that ruined Halo so yea it does affect my friends list because nobody on it plays anymore. Also, I never said you can’t make friends on Halo 5, I just mentioned that the population and fanbase of Halo 5 is terrible compared to the previous Halos (besides Halo 4). Anyone can add a bunch of friends that play the same game but making the claim “At times I have hundreds of players on my friends list playing Halo 5, with several dozen being the fewest that are ever on at the oddest hours of the day” to defend Halo 5 is a false claim because we were mentioning how nobody (referring to the population) plays or talks about Halo as much as they used to.

11432

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> > > > 2535464451695009;11409:
> > > > > 2625759425619671;11406:
> > > > > At times I have hundreds of players on my friends list playing Halo 5, with several dozen being the fewest that are ever on at the oddest hours of the day… I can’t tell you why you don’t have friends playing Halo, but in the words of the house at Vegas, “You gotta play to win.” If you played Halo more often yourself you could build up your friends list with fellow Halo gamers to be as large as you want it to be.
> >
> >
> > And by the way, I can make that claim any time of the day. I can go on to Online Barbie Dreamland, and add every person i play with. I guess that makes Online Barbie Dreamland really popular because everyone on my friends list is playing it
>
>
> This discussion isn’t about “Online Barbie Dreamland,” or your preference of which games you like to play online- it’s about sprint and its effects on Halo. If you want to dress up and play house with Ken then go right ahead and do you. My point is that there are still tons of people playing Halo- If someone doesn’t play a lot of Halo then it makes sense they wouldn’t see a lot of their friends playing Halo either. That doesn’t mean that you cannot make friends with people who actually do play Halo either. Regardless sprint doesn’t have anything to do with your selection of your own friend group on XBL.

You claimed that halo 5 is doing well due to the fact that evreyone on your friends list plays it. He simply made the counter point that if you add lots people that only play a few games then of course your friends list looks like that. Unless you add evreyone on XBL, or stop ignoring the battlefield 4 most played list comparison, there’s no other way to prove anything about its population since 343 won’t implement a population counter.

11433

My opinion is that it is useful.

11434

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> > >

Interesting reads. It’s obvious that you are an outlier when it comes to the pro-sprint argument. Actual thought out and explained points are rare amongst the pro-sprint crowd. I apologize for thinking that you didn’t know what you were talking about, because you clearly do.

On the immersion side of things, I just disagree with you. If anything I find it more frustrating as maps are obviously designed for sprint, and not sprinting puts you at a disadvantage. Lore wise, Spartans in the past have been able to move at full speed while also being able to shoot. That is how a game with higher FoV would feel, IMO.

While I feel that sprint has no place in Arena and it’s pretty easy to explain why, it’s harder to defend BTB. Sprint feels decent in the wide open expanses. But that is a problem in and of itself. The Forge remakes in BTB matchmaking don’t work well at all. They feel too small, and minimize the importance of vehicles. Making BTB maps bigger to compensate for this in Halo 6 seems counter-intuitive as they it will create similar situations but also make walking across those maps even more of a chore. Warzone already does this to a certain extent. Those maps are too big, even with sprint. That is the real problem with Sprint, that it requires maps to be bigger, but by making maps bigger you are making sprint less and less useful, but at the same time more and more required. The solution is proper Vehicle, Man-Cannon, and Teleporter implementation, and well designed maps. It might not be a perfect solution, but the negatives that come with them are a lot less worse than the negatives that come with sprint (the separation of combat and movement, spread out maps, minimization and removal of vehicles).

11435

> 2533274909445208;11431:
> > 2625759425619671;11426:
> > > 2533274909445208;11422:
> > > > 2625759425619671;11410:
> > > > > 2535464451695009;11409:
> > > > > > 2625759425619671;11406:
> > > > > > At times I have hundreds of players on my friends list playing Halo 5, with several dozen being the fewest that are ever on at the oddest hours of the day… I can’t tell you why you don’t have friends playing Halo, but in the words of the house at Vegas, “You gotta play to win.” If you played Halo more often yourself you could build up your friends list with fellow Halo gamers to be as large as you want it to be.
> > >
> > >
> > > And by the way, I can make that claim any time of the day. I can go on to Online Barbie Dreamland, and add every person i play with. I guess that makes Online Barbie Dreamland really popular because everyone on my friends list is playing it
> >
> >
> > This discussion isn’t about “Online Barbie Dreamland,” or your preference of which games you like to play online- it’s about sprint and its effects on Halo. If you want to dress up and play house with Ken then go right ahead and do you. My point is that there are still tons of people playing Halo- If someone doesn’t play a lot of Halo then it makes sense they wouldn’t see a lot of their friends playing Halo either. That doesn’t mean that you cannot make friends with people who actually do play Halo either. Regardless sprint doesn’t have anything to do with your selection of your own friend group on XBL.
>
>
> Sprint is one of the game mechanics that ruined Halo so yea it does affect my friends list because nobody on it plays anymore. Also, I never said you can’t make friends on Halo 5, I just mentioned that the population and fanbase of Halo 5 is terrible compared to the previous Halos (besides Halo 4).

I’m genuinely sorry to hear about your bad experience on Halo. How would you feel about a split settings compromise on the sprint issue versus and “All or nothing,” approach to sprint?

11436

> 2533275035781111;11432:
> > 2625759425619671;11426:
> > > 2533274909445208;11422:
> > > > 2625759425619671;11410:
> > > > > 2535464451695009;11409:
> > > > > > 2625759425619671;11406:
> > > > > > At times I have hundreds of players on my friends list playing Halo 5, with several dozen being the fewest that are ever on at the oddest hours of the day… I can’t tell you why you don’t have friends playing Halo, but in the words of the house at Vegas, “You gotta play to win.” If you played Halo more often yourself you could build up your friends list with fellow Halo gamers to be as large as you want it to be.
> > >
> > >
> > > And by the way, I can make that claim any time of the day. I can go on to Online Barbie Dreamland, and add every person i play with. I guess that makes Online Barbie Dreamland really popular because everyone on my friends list is playing it
> >
> >
> > This discussion isn’t about “Online Barbie Dreamland,” or your preference of which games you like to play online- it’s about sprint and its effects on Halo. If you want to dress up and play house with Ken then go right ahead and do you. My point is that there are still tons of people playing Halo- If someone doesn’t play a lot of Halo then it makes sense they wouldn’t see a lot of their friends playing Halo either. That doesn’t mean that you cannot make friends with people who actually do play Halo either. Regardless sprint doesn’t have anything to do with your selection of your own friend group on XBL.
>
>
> You claimed that halo 5 is doing well due to the fact that evreyone on your friends list plays it. He simply made the counter point that if you add lots people that only play a few games then of course your friends list looks like that. Unless you add evreyone on XBL, or stop ignoring the battlefield 4 most played list comparison, there’s no other way to prove anything about its population since 343 won’t implement a population counter.

That’s not really why I said anything about my own friends list. He replied to a post from another forum user regarding how that user doesn’t see a lot of his friends on Halo 5. I replied that you have to play Halo to get friends on Halo. I agree with you regarding the difficulties of trying to measure the entire online population on Halo.

11437

> 2625759425619671;11436:
> > 2533275035781111;11432:
> > > 2625759425619671;11426:
> > > > 2533274909445208;11422:
> > > > > 2625759425619671;11410:
> > > > > > 2535464451695009;11409:
> > > > > > > 2625759425619671;11406:
> > > > > > > At times I have hundreds of players on my friends list playing Halo 5, with several dozen being the fewest that are ever on at the oddest hours of the day… I can’t tell you why you don’t have friends playing Halo, but in the words of the house at Vegas, “You gotta play to win.” If you played Halo more often yourself you could build up your friends list with fellow Halo gamers to be as large as you want it to be.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > And by the way, I can make that claim any time of the day. I can go on to Online Barbie Dreamland, and add every person i play with. I guess that makes Online Barbie Dreamland really popular because everyone on my friends list is playing it
> > >
> > >
> > > This discussion isn’t about “Online Barbie Dreamland,” or your preference of which games you like to play online- it’s about sprint and its effects on Halo. If you want to dress up and play house with Ken then go right ahead and do you. My point is that there are still tons of people playing Halo- If someone doesn’t play a lot of Halo then it makes sense they wouldn’t see a lot of their friends playing Halo either. That doesn’t mean that you cannot make friends with people who actually do play Halo either. Regardless sprint doesn’t have anything to do with your selection of your own friend group on XBL.
> >
> >
> > You claimed that halo 5 is doing well due to the fact that evreyone on your friends list plays it. He simply made the counter point that if you add lots people that only play a few games then of course your friends list looks like that. Unless you add evreyone on XBL, or stop ignoring the battlefield 4 most played list comparison, there’s no other way to prove anything about its population since 343 won’t implement a population counter.
>
>
> That’s not really why I said anything about my own friends list. He replied to a post from another forum user regarding how that user doesn’t see a lot of his friends on Halo 5. I replied that you have to play Halo to get friends on Halo. I agree with you regarding the difficulties of trying to measure the entire online population on Halo.

Just in general your friends list isn’t a good way to measure popularity.

11438

> 2533275035781111;11437:
> > 2625759425619671;11436:
> > > 2533275035781111;11432:
> > > > 2625759425619671;11426:
> > > > > 2533274909445208;11422:
> > > > > > 2625759425619671;11410:
> > > > > > > 2535464451695009;11409:
> > > > > > > > 2625759425619671;11406:
> > > > > > > > At times I have hundreds of players on my friends list playing Halo 5, with several dozen being the fewest that are ever on at the oddest hours of the day… I can’t tell you why you don’t have friends playing Halo, but in the words of the house at Vegas, “You gotta play to win.” If you played Halo more often yourself you could build up your friends list with fellow Halo gamers to be as large as you want it to be.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > And by the way, I can make that claim any time of the day. I can go on to Online Barbie Dreamland, and add every person i play with. I guess that makes Online Barbie Dreamland really popular because everyone on my friends list is playing it
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > This discussion isn’t about “Online Barbie Dreamland,” or your preference of which games you like to play online- it’s about sprint and its effects on Halo. If you want to dress up and play house with Ken then go right ahead and do you. My point is that there are still tons of people playing Halo- If someone doesn’t play a lot of Halo then it makes sense they wouldn’t see a lot of their friends playing Halo either. That doesn’t mean that you cannot make friends with people who actually do play Halo either. Regardless sprint doesn’t have anything to do with your selection of your own friend group on XBL.
> > >
> > >
> > > You claimed that halo 5 is doing well due to the fact that evreyone on your friends list plays it. He simply made the counter point that if you add lots people that only play a few games then of course your friends list looks like that. Unless you add evreyone on XBL, or stop ignoring the battlefield 4 most played list comparison, there’s no other way to prove anything about its population since 343 won’t implement a population counter.
> >
> >
> > That’s not really why I said anything about my own friends list. He replied to a post from another forum user regarding how that user doesn’t see a lot of his friends on Halo 5. I replied that you have to play Halo to get friends on Halo. I agree with you regarding the difficulties of trying to measure the entire online population on Halo.
>
>
> Just in general your friends list isn’t a good way to measure popularity.

I agree it’s definitely not the best of ways to measure popularity… That said, sadly there’s not a lot of other ways to do try and measure this on Halo 5… Polls are used as a census for trying measure things and some as low as 200-responses were cited here so I think that the way people feel on someone’s friends list can still be noteworthy for the purposes of this discussion, though as you mentioned it’s certainly not the best of ways to measure popularity.

11439

> 2625759425619671;11435:
> > 2533274909445208;11431:
> > > 2625759425619671;11426:
> > > > 2533274909445208;11422:
> > > > > 2625759425619671;11410:
> > > > > > 2535464451695009;11409:
> > > > > > > 2625759425619671;11406:
> > > > > > > At times I have hundreds of players on my friends list playing Halo 5, with several dozen being the fewest that are ever on at the oddest hours of the day… I can’t tell you why you don’t have friends playing Halo, but in the words of the house at Vegas, “You gotta play to win.” If you played Halo more often yourself you could build up your friends list with fellow Halo gamers to be as large as you want it to be.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > And by the way, I can make that claim any time of the day. I can go on to Online Barbie Dreamland, and add every person i play with. I guess that makes Online Barbie Dreamland really popular because everyone on my friends list is playing it
> > >
> > >
> > > This discussion isn’t about “Online Barbie Dreamland,” or your preference of which games you like to play online- it’s about sprint and its effects on Halo. If you want to dress up and play house with Ken then go right ahead and do you. My point is that there are still tons of people playing Halo- If someone doesn’t play a lot of Halo then it makes sense they wouldn’t see a lot of their friends playing Halo either. That doesn’t mean that you cannot make friends with people who actually do play Halo either. Regardless sprint doesn’t have anything to do with your selection of your own friend group on XBL.
> >
> >
> > Sprint is one of the game mechanics that ruined Halo so yea it does affect my friends list because nobody on it plays anymore. Also, I never said you can’t make friends on Halo 5, I just mentioned that the population and fanbase of Halo 5 is terrible compared to the previous Halos (besides Halo 4).
>
>
> I’m genuinely sorry to hear about your bad experience on Halo. How would you feel about a split settings compromise on the sprint issue versus and “All or nothing,” approach to sprint?

Personally, I think that games should stick to unified settings. Splitting things up and creating two drastically different settings does a lot of stuff that is’t great. Each “mode” would get roughly half the dev time, half the maps, half the support. Maps would have to be designed for their own playstyle and wouldn’t transfer over well, halving the amount of content each would get. I don’t think it would be a good idea.

11440

> 2625759425619671;11438:
> > 2533275035781111;11437:
> > > 2625759425619671;11436:
> > > > 2533275035781111;11432:
> > > > > 2625759425619671;11426:
> > > > > > 2533274909445208;11422:
> > > > > > > 2625759425619671;11410:
> > > > > > > > 2535464451695009;11409:
> > > > > > > > > 2625759425619671;11406:
> > > > > > > > > At times I have hundreds of players on my friends list playing Halo 5, with several dozen being the fewest that are ever on at the oddest hours of the day… I can’t tell you why you don’t have friends playing Halo, but in the words of the house at Vegas, “You gotta play to win.” If you played Halo more often yourself you could build up your friends list with fellow Halo gamers to be as large as you want it to be.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And by the way, I can make that claim any time of the day. I can go on to Online Barbie Dreamland, and add every person i play with. I guess that makes Online Barbie Dreamland really popular because everyone on my friends list is playing it
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > This discussion isn’t about “Online Barbie Dreamland,” or your preference of which games you like to play online- it’s about sprint and its effects on Halo. If you want to dress up and play house with Ken then go right ahead and do you. My point is that there are still tons of people playing Halo- If someone doesn’t play a lot of Halo then it makes sense they wouldn’t see a lot of their friends playing Halo either. That doesn’t mean that you cannot make friends with people who actually do play Halo either. Regardless sprint doesn’t have anything to do with your selection of your own friend group on XBL.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > You claimed that halo 5 is doing well due to the fact that evreyone on your friends list plays it. He simply made the counter point that if you add lots people that only play a few games then of course your friends list looks like that. Unless you add evreyone on XBL, or stop ignoring the battlefield 4 most played list comparison, there’s no other way to prove anything about its population since 343 won’t implement a population counter.
> > >
> > >
> > > That’s not really why I said anything about my own friends list. He replied to a post from another forum user regarding how that user doesn’t see a lot of his friends on Halo 5. I replied that you have to play Halo to get friends on Halo. I agree with you regarding the difficulties of trying to measure the entire online population on Halo.
> >
> >
> > Just in general your friends list isn’t a good way to measure popularity.
>
>
> I agree it’s definitely not the best of ways to measure popularity… That said, sadly there’s not a lot of other ways to do try and measure this on Halo 5… Polls are used as a census for trying measure things and some as low as 200-responses were cited here so I think that the way people feel on someone’s friends list can still be noteworthy for the purposes of this discussion, though as you mentioned it’s certainly not the best of ways to measure popularity.

you can go to the Xbox website and view the list of most played games on Xbox live. Not all the games have population counters, but some do and you can use them to estimate the rough population of others.

For example, Battlefield 4 has a population of about 20,000 (seen here) and because Halo 5 is behind it on the Xbox most played list you can tell that Halo 5 has, at best, similar population numbers.

EDIT: this is a better determiner for BF4 population here.

11441

> 2625759425619671;11308:
> I’ve argued that immersion, lore, realism and predictive combat are major topics for discussion as to why sprint is good for Halo (Here and here were good summaries of those points as I can’t fit them all into one post). A lot of my sentiments as to why I feel that sprint is good for Halo also happen to be shared by 343i’s Executive Producer Josh Holmes. However in Halo 3’s case, particularly on larger BTB maps, I have argued that players having to walk at one BMS was a problem in the game. I’ll give it to you- messing around with FOV can address that same issue as you clearly outlined in your articulated posts about it. My point is that so can sprint, and I happen to think that sprint is a better option for the reasons above. Oh yeah, and player choice- why spend so much time tweaking FOV when you can just empower players with the ability to choose to move faster when the situation calls for it? Furthermore I’ve also pushed for a split settings compromise on this issue in order to 1) enable players to choose to enter playlists with or without sprint and 2) 343i could then collect and analyze data to determine how popular sprint really is in Halo.

You should quote me sometimes, rather than just repeatedly saying “I said X, Y, and Z as an argument”, because a lot of the points you go into are points I’ve specifically deconstructed, over and over, ESPECIALLY in regards to Halo 3 maps. You literally don’t understand that the maps were specifically designed without sprint in mind, meaning you didn’t need it at all. The idea you’d want sprint in Halo 3 maps is misguided, because it wouldn’t help, meaning that argument is soooooo weak. Read my rant on that, again. It explains all you need to know.

And again, FoV isn’t something that needs to be static, nor would you “spend a lot of time tweaking an FoV”. That isn’t how it works, like, at all. Making a slider from 60-150 (At most) isn’t hard. There’s literally no reason to not have it. And you realize that the “choice” to move faster isn’t a choice when the map’s very geometry forces sprint as a basic movement option (Being as fast as another non-sprint-less game’s BMS, despite seeming “faster” than one, because placebo). Why force people to put their weapon down and slow down pace the gameplay’s pace in multiple ways when they want to move as quickly as possible, as opposed to giving them a fast BMS, and an FoV slider that can give the exact same effect, but harmlessly, and flexibly without forcing any bad mechanics down the map/game or player’s throat. In short, again, sprint is the illusion of choice, objectively.

11442

> 2533274800772611;11434:
> > 2625759425619671;11427:
> > > 2533274800772611;11425:
> > > > 2625759425619671;11424:
> > > >
>
>
> 1) Interesting reads. It’s obvious that you are an outlier when it comes to the pro-sprint argument. Actual thought out and explained points are rare amongst the pro-sprint crowd. I apologize for thinking that you didn’t know what you were talking about, because you clearly do.
>
> 2) On the immersion side of things, I just disagree with you. If anything I find it more frustrating as maps are obviously designed for sprint, and not sprinting puts you at a disadvantage.
>
> 3) Lore wise, Spartans in the past have been able to move at full speed while also being able to shoot. That is how a game with higher FoV would feel, IMO.
>
> 4) While I feel that sprint has no place in Arena and it’s pretty easy to explain why, it’s harder to defend BTB. Sprint feels decent in the wide open expanses. But that is a problem in and of itself. The Forge remakes in BTB matchmaking don’t work well at all. They feel too small, and minimize the importance of vehicles. Making BTB maps bigger to compensate for this in Halo 6 seems counter-intuitive as they it will create similar situations but also make walking across those maps even more of a chore. Warzone already does this to a certain extent.
>
> 5) Those maps are too big, even with sprint. That is the real problem with Sprint, that it requires maps to be bigger, but by making maps bigger you are making sprint less and less useful, but at the same time more and more required.
>
> 6) The solution is proper Vehicle, Man-Cannon, and Teleporter implementation, and well designed maps. It might not be a perfect solution, but the negatives that come with them are a lot less worse than the negatives that come with sprint (the separation of combat and movement, spread out maps, minimization and removal of vehicles).

  1. Thanks although aside me and Josh Holmes, I’ve seen a bunch of other solid and rationale points from multiple people (many here in this thread) defending the notion of having sprint in Halo… Believe it or not I don’t always agree with pro sprinters on everything- particularly when it comes to the defense that “sprint helps escape punishment.” I don’t view sprint as helping to escape punishment; especially with the balancing tweaks that 343i applied to Halo 5 in order to mitigate the old “cat and mouse,” games created from sprint on Halo Reach (From what I’ve experienced proper positioning, good team shots and team pushes, and the retaining of map control helps to win games- so maps don’t necessarily favor who sprints the most either in that regard) Either way no harm done - I enjoy debating this issue because I’m hoping to learn more about why some of my fellow fans actually want sprint removed. Participating in this thread has taught me a great deal about how many people feel on the subject of sprint, along with how far some people have been willing to go to viciously speak out against sprint (That’s not to imply that all anti sprinters have conducted themselves in this way either)

  2. That’s understandable - a lot of people have disagreed with me (and Josh Holmes) regarding immersion being a benefit of keeping sprint in Halo. I’ve seen people agree with me too, however and I’d point out that people who dislike something like sprint are going to be the more likely ones to take to a creative medium such as Waypoint to express their displeasure about it… There have been a lot of responses here in his thread to support that as a lot of pro sprinters have stated that they don’t even know that sprint is an issue right now in Halo (Sry if that’s going too far on a tangent- I just feel that there’s even more support out there on points such as this then what has been expressed in this thread)

  3. I’ve also discussed sprint/shoot versus sprint/no shoot which is really what I think you’re arguing for… One BMS couldn’t really be an all-out gallop so if you want to be able to sprint/shoot at the same time here are some points that I’ve made about that when comparing sprint/shoot to modern rifle marksmanship and discussing why sprint/no shoot makes sense for Halo.

  4. I could be misunderstanding but it appears (at least by the way that you opening that point) that you’d be at least somewhat open to a split settings compromise on the next Halo, such as what I’ve been calling for in this thread? I’m all for having “no sprint,” playlists where it makes sense such as most competitive playlists and even potential classic social playlists. I just think sprint should remain on larger maps on playlists such as: BTB, Warzone, Firefight, and even on Campaign. This would enable more players to enjoy the next Halo title by empowering them to choose between which type setting in Halo they enjoy playing with more… Furthermore 343i could accurately collect and assess data on player preference regarding sprint.

  5. I was actually really glad to see larger, more breathtaking maps on Halo 5 in Warzone and hope they continue this trend in Halo 6. I believe they can make maps even larger if they just expand the player count and keep sprint in Warzone.

  6. I’ve argued multiple reasons why I don’t think that teleporters, man canons, and vehicles present a viable substitute to vehicles. I think I already linked my feelings on vehicles so you probably already read that, however to summarize regarding teleporters and man canons: “Sprint is multi-directional, dynamic, and can be utilized everywhere on a map whereas teleporters and man canons are stationary, static, point-to-point, single directional devices that can only take someone from point a to point b. People also routinely camped at opposite ends of teleporters and man canons which made using them a risk in the first place (You shouldn’t have to risk using a faster means of transportion than the walking pace).”

I realize that we’re not likely to wholly agree on these points either but I thank you for being patient and open minded enough to read my points and to respond to them!

11443

> 2533274886529017;11441:
> > 2625759425619671;11308:
> > I’ve argued that immersion, lore, realism and predictive combat are major topics for discussion as to why sprint is good for Halo (Here and here were good summaries of those points as I can’t fit them all into one post). A lot of my sentiments as to why I feel that sprint is good for Halo also happen to be shared by 343i’s Executive Producer Josh Holmes. However in Halo 3’s case, particularly on larger BTB maps, I have argued that players having to walk at one BMS was a problem in the game. I’ll give it to you- messing around with FOV can address that same issue as you clearly outlined in your articulated posts about it. My point is that so can sprint, and I happen to think that sprint is a better option for the reasons above. Oh yeah, and player choice- why spend so much time tweaking FOV when you can just empower players with the ability to choose to move faster when the situation calls for it? Furthermore I’ve also pushed for a split settings compromise on this issue in order to 1) enable players to choose to enter playlists with or without sprint and 2) 343i could then collect and analyze data to determine how popular sprint really is in Halo.
>
>
> 1) You should quote me sometimes, rather than just repeatedly saying “I said X, Y, and Z as an argument”, because a lot of the points you go into are points I’ve specifically deconstructed, over and over, ESPECIALLY in regards to Halo 3 maps.
>
> 2) You literally don’t understand…
> The idea you’d… is misguided, because it wouldn’t help, meaning that argument is soooooo weak. Read my rant on that, again. It explains all you need to know.
>
> 3) And again, FoV isn’t something that…
>
> 4) flexibly without forcing any bad mechanics down the map/game or player’s throat. In short, again, sprint is the illusion of choice, objectively.

Woah woah woah- let me stop you before you begin on this- you have yet to effectively “deconstruct,” any of my arguments; yet your aggressive nature in this thread to blindly seek after “decomstructing,” and “debunking,” any and every point you’ve considered to be “pro sprint,” has been nearly unparalleled. Plus I can refer to previous discussions anyway that I want to- the quotes are accurate and the debate has already been taking place. Who are you to try to tell me how I can or cannot post here?

  1. All I need to know is explained in the parts of that quote which I left there… You’re 100% bias in this issue and you’ll attack every point that I’ll ever make just like that if it comes off as “pro sprint,” to you. You do so by asserting your own “educating,” in Halo to try to affirm your anti sprinter opinions as fact and it doesn’t work in this debate.

  2. You haven’t even responded to my last points to you on this- you just pop back out whenever the moment feels right to try to “deconstruct,” or “destroy,” my points even though I’ve fully responded to all your points to me and you simply ignored them…

  3. The choice is simple- do they a) provide players to pick between two BMS’ or do they be b) force players to use just one BMS. Two choices of movement = choice, and that’s no illusion bud… That’s how it is.