The sprint discussion thread

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> > > > > > > > Debating about the polls is silly. No matter the result of them, they don’t matter. This is a creative medium.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Success in creative mediums is often attained by subverting expectations and giving people something they didn’t expect to love but end up loving.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > “Anti sprinters” are convinced replacing sprint with high BMS will do this and no data exists that can disprove this theory.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Equally along those lines no data exists that can prove such a theory… This being the creative medium that it is, all we can do is discuss the issue with fellow fans that are not all like-minded regarding sprint. Personally, I think I’ve heard and seen many points supporting why one high BMS will definitely not replace sprint and would make Halo worse… Anti sprinters would tell you different, but I do agree insofar that no one should be here with the intention to “disprove,” “dismantle,” and/or “destroy,” opinions from our fellow fans about this.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I got three reasons for you.
> > > > > > 1. Halo: CE
> > > > > > 2. Halo 2
> > > > > > 3. Halo 3
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I’ve got three reasons for you.
> > > > > 1) Reach
> > > > > 2) Halo 4
> > > > > 3) Halo 5
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Reach, 4 & 5 are the three most controversial Halo titles.
> > >
> > >
> > > What evidence to you have to support that opinion?
> > >
> > > Sure Halo used to be more popular but there are a large number of factor in play as to why an overall decline of popularity has taken place. My point is that one in game mechanic has little to do with pressure an increase in competition from other FPS titles, games, and platforms. Either way Reach, 4, and 5 have still been successful.
> >
> >
> > Halo is diverting from what made it succesful, and sprint is a major diversion.
>
>
> Do you have any real argument to support that stance? Posting the titles of Halo games doesn’t really do anything. There are a wide array of reasons why Halo could be less popular than it once was- it’s arguable that it could have been even less popular without changing up the formula in each title. They can’t very well just package up an expansion pack and market it as a sequel, because other than that there’s no way to avoid “diverting,” from previous titles when Halo sequels are launched.

There are many ways to change up halo without incoporating sprint. Halo CE, 2 & 3 proved that.

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> > > > > > > > This guy must have the advanced thrusters mod on. Dodging questions like a pro!
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > What your thought process is, is A LOT different than the rest of us, even the other pro sprinters.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > To the contrary, my thought process lines up pretty closely with Josh Holmes (343i Executive Producer) when he advocated for sprint here and here.
> > > >
> > > > I just want to seek a viable compromise, such as the potential for split settings/playlists in the next Halo game regarding sprint so that as many fans as possible will be satisfied with the game.
> >
> >
> > 1) Thank you and likewise
> >
> > 2) That’s because I don’t believe that FOV is as closely correlated to sprint as some anti sprinters in this thread. For instance, Halo 3 was universally accepted to have had the worst FOV of the series and yet Halo 3 did not have sprint. I believe that altering FOV is technically a separate issue when compared to whether or not sprint should be kept in Halo. You could alter FOV and still have movement problems, with or without sprint (As evidenced by Halo 3). It’s actually understandable for you to claim that my “FOV arguments are the weakest,” among all my arguments because I don’t want to get into a separate off topic discussion about FOV when this thread is about sprint and its effects on Halo. I’m trying to tailor my arguments towards sprint, not FOV. The monitor asked me quite directly to discuss FOV/sprint so I discussed my thoughts on it but that response wasn’t intended to be a strong, front-runner argument as to why sprint should stay in Halo… My arguments on why sprint is good for Halo cover that aspect, not FOV arguments.
> >
> > 3) As far as map sizes go, I’d actually anticipate 343i to go bigger in the next Halo sequel. And they can accomplish bigger by increasing the player count and keeping sprint… No reason to go backwards by reducing map size- especially if the main argument to alter everything about the game like that to the point of moving backwards from the success found in Warzone would center around sprint (It would be entirely based upon trying to force out the sprint mechanic anyway under that logic).
> >
> > 4) I don’t actually agree with sprint being a “pick up,” idea either… Just like in Halo 3, “sprint pick ups,” were so few and far between they didn’t offer sprint to the entire team. They only offered sprint to one member of the team at a time and it was limited, left an enormous trail behind the player to give away their position and path to the enemy, and they had a dreadfully long respawn timer.
>
>
> 4) Now that is just straight up wrong, no matter how you try to interpret it. It was Halo Reach, and everyone had a CHOICE of using sprint or not. Sprint or movement modifiers weren’t even a thing in Halo 3. I don’t know what series you’ve been playing, but Halo has never had map pickup abilities except for Camo and Overshields. You’re just reaching at this point.
>
> 3) Then you might as well play Battlefield with that logic. Why have two games that are almost essentially the same thing? Halo is about point blank-mid range engagements in Arena maps, and short-long range chaos in BTB, Invasion, and Warzone. Reducing map sizes isn’t going backwards, it’s to IMPROVE GAME FLOW of Arena maps, if and ONLY IF sprint isn’t included. I don’t remember if I told this to you or someone else, but Battlefield is about “simulating” warfare. Halo is about having controlled chaos, and the design of CE-Reach and 5 Arena show it. Low player counts, smaller and easy to learn maps, “equal” starts and map pickups, and mostly balanced equipment. Halo 4 is the only one to break most of these characteristics, and look at where that got Halo. Halo Reach had equal starts because everyone had the same Loadout options. It’s the same as League of Legend’s champions, but not as in-depth. If player count is increased, so too is randomness.
>
> 2) Ok then, prove it’s not related. If I play Battlefield at 120 FOV and never use vehicles, I feel fast when moving through Caspian Border and Siege of Shanghai because the edge of the screen moves faster than the middle of the screen. If I play those same maps at console FOV, I feel the need to use vehicles because my camera “isn’t going anywhere”. It’s directly related to player perception and whether sprint is needed or not. FOV may not solve pacing issues, but it artificially solves it by giving the perception that there are no pacing issues.
>
> 1) I might take that back if you don’t understand what I’m trying to say. I might ask you to reiterate and paraphrase before I do though.

  1. Just gonna let that one go entirely because there’s no point at all to continue down that train of thought that with you.

  2. Battlefield isn’t Halo. Halo 3 had FOV issues and that game didn’t have sprint. Sprint could have helped enhance game play in those BTB maps but either way that game demonstrated that FOV problems can (and did) still exist in Halo in the absence of any perceived sprint issues.

  3. You’re the one who literally just used Battlefield as an example for 120 FOV so why couldn’t I tell you to “Just play Battlefield instead,” in just the same way you’re trying to tell me to do it in that point? Increasing map size can and will work in the next Halo if they just increase the player count and keep sprint (Increasing player count doesn’t just “increase randomness” as you’re suggesting it would… Increasing map sizes increases the fun factor and increasing the player count enables developers with the ability to create larger maps versus trying to restrict them by forcing them to create smaller maps or order to try and accommodate a potential change to one game play mechanic). You’re really only suggesting that “map sizes should be reduced,” in order to remain in line with your anti-sprint opinion. Outside of that there’s no reason to assume that larger maps can’t or won’t work for the next Halo title.

  4. So after looking this up I found that the sprint power up was on CE, big whoop- it still created problems as the source explains… The same problems that I discussed in my previous post on this which would all resurface anyway if sprint were a “pick up,” as opposed to sprint being permanent like it is now in Halo.

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> > > > > > > > > Debating about the polls is silly. No matter the result of them, they don’t matter. This is a creative medium.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Success in creative mediums is often attained by subverting expectations and giving people something they didn’t expect to love but end up loving.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > “Anti sprinters” are convinced replacing sprint with high BMS will do this and no data exists that can disprove this theory.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Equally along those lines no data exists that can prove such a theory… This being the creative medium that it is, all we can do is discuss the issue with fellow fans that are not all like-minded regarding sprint. Personally, I think I’ve heard and seen many points supporting why one high BMS will definitely not replace sprint and would make Halo worse… Anti sprinters would tell you different, but I do agree insofar that no one should be here with the intention to “disprove,” “dismantle,” and/or “destroy,” opinions from our fellow fans about this.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I got three reasons for you.
> > > > > > > 1. Halo: CE
> > > > > > > 2. Halo 2
> > > > > > > 3. Halo 3
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I’ve got three reasons for you.
> > > > > > 1) Reach
> > > > > > 2) Halo 4
> > > > > > 3) Halo 5
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Reach, 4 & 5 are the three most controversial Halo titles.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > What evidence to you have to support that opinion?
> > > >
> > > > Sure Halo used to be more popular but there are a large number of factor in play as to why an overall decline of popularity has taken place. My point is that one in game mechanic has little to do with pressure an increase in competition from other FPS titles, games, and platforms. Either way Reach, 4, and 5 have still been successful.
> > >
> > >
> > > Halo is diverting from what made it succesful, and sprint is a major diversion.
> >
> >
> > Do you have any real argument to support that stance? Posting the titles of Halo games doesn’t really do anything. There are a wide array of reasons why Halo could be less popular than it once was- it’s arguable that it could have been even less popular without changing up the formula in each title. They can’t very well just package up an expansion pack and market it as a sequel, because other than that there’s no way to avoid “diverting,” from previous titles when Halo sequels are launched.
>
>
> There are many ways to change up halo without incoporating sprint. Halo CE, 2 & 3 proved that.

No they didn’t. All you’re doing is posting the titles of those games and using that to try and “prove,” things. Sprint has remained in Halo for the past 3 AAA titles in the franchise because it fits in well in Halo. Halo Reach, Halo 4, and Halo 5 have proven that sprint can become a core mechanic of gameplay and should stay in Halo.

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> > >
> > > Uhhhhh
> > > http://i.imgur.com/RNH8JKH.png
> > > Yeah… You shouldn’t make -yoink- up.
> >
> >
> > Nobody made anything up… All he stated there was “don’t recall if we toyed with it.” That makes sense since he’s talking about the development cycle of a game that released ~12 years ago. Either way sprint was in the coding of Halo 2 which was my point and that wasn’t made up.
>
>
> I just had the people who built the game say they didn’t include it, so… please, now show me where there was code for this. I want to see a hastebin of the code inside Halo 2 for sprint.

I’ve already showed you what you’re asking for. I posted a video where it showed that sprint made it all the way to the very late stages of Halo 2’s development (to the point that it’s in the code of Halo 2 and can even be activated on the PC version); exactly like how the Flood Juggernaut and the Forerunner Tank level made it into the coding of the game. The similarities are such that those things also made it the late stages of development during Halo 2’s prelaunch cycle but were cut at the very end. That’s not "mak[ing] -yoink- up,• as you called it, it’s just making an informed statement about what actually happened. Sprint was planned to be in Halo 2 and just cut at the very latest stages of the prelaunch cycle.

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> 4) So after looking this up I found that the sprint power up was on CE, big whoop- it still created problems as the source explains… The same problems that I discussed in my previous post on this which would all come back anyway if sprint were a “pick up.”

> The Source
You do realize who Jamie Goresmear is right? The Design Lead for Halo 2? Max Hoberman was the Multiplayer Interface lead. According to that twitter thread, he also said that " It’s a crutch for “too big” maps. And when the designers start building FOR sprint, it’s a vicious circle. " which seems to completely nullify any reasoning to include it and is probably the reason there are so many issues with multiplayer currently.

But, what do I know.

[deleted]

<mark>This post has been edited by a moderator. Please refrain from making non-constructive posts.</mark>

*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

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> > > > > > > > > > > Debating about the polls is silly. No matter the result of them, they don’t matter. This is a creative medium.
> > > > > > > > > > > Success in creative mediums is often attained by subverting expectations and giving people something they didn’t expect to love but end up loving.
> > > > > > > > > > > “Anti sprinters” are convinced replacing sprint with high BMS will do this and no data exists that can disprove this theory.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Equally along those lines no data exists that can prove such a theory… This being the creative medium that it is, all we can do is discuss the issue with fellow fans that are not all like-minded regarding sprint. Personally, I think I’ve heard and seen many points supporting why one high BMS will definitely not replace sprint and would make Halo worse… Anti sprinters would tell you different, but I do agree insofar that no one should be here with the intention to “disprove,” “dismantle,” and/or “destroy,” opinions from our fellow fans about this.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I got three reasons for you.
> > > > > > > > > 1. Halo: CE
> > > > > > > > > 2. Halo 2
> > > > > > > > > 3. Halo 3
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I’ve got three reasons for you.
> > > > > > > > 1) Reach
> > > > > > > > 2) Halo 4
> > > > > > > > 3) Halo 5
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Reach, 4 & 5 are the three most controversial Halo titles.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What evidence to you have to support that opinion?
> > > > > > Sure Halo used to be more popular but there are a large number of factor in play as to why an overall decline of popularity has taken place. My point is that one in game mechanic has little to do with pressure an increase in competition from other FPS titles, games, and platforms. Either way Reach, 4, and 5 have still been successful.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Halo is diverting from what made it succesful, and sprint is a major diversion.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Do you have any real argument to support that stance? Posting the titles of Halo games doesn’t really do anything. There are a wide array of reasons why Halo could be less popular than it once was- it’s arguable that it could have been even less popular without changing up the formula in each title. They can’t very well just package up an expansion pack and market it as a sequel, because other than that there’s no way to avoid “diverting,” from previous titles when Halo sequels are launched.
> > >
> > >
> > > There are many ways to change up halo without incoporating sprint. Halo CE, 2 & 3 proved that.
> >
> >
> > No they didn’t. All you’re doing is posting the titles of those games and using that to try and “prove,” things. Sprint has remained in Halo for the past 3 AAA titles in the franchise because it fits in well in Halo. Halo Reach, Halo 4, and Halo 5 have proven that sprint can become a core mechanic of gameplay and should stay in Halo.
>
>
> I look on my Xbox Live friends list (on my old account), and no one is playing Halo. My friends and their friends, and their friends’ friends don’t play Halo. Yes, I just went through 78 people, and two tiers of Friends Lists. Last time I checked, nearly everyone on my friends list played Halo until Reach came around, and then when 4 came out, a handul was playing Halo.

At times I have hundreds of players on my friends list playing Halo 5, with several dozen being the fewest that are ever on at the oddest hours of the day… I can’t tell you why you don’t have friends playing Halo, but in the words of the house at Vegas, “You gotta play to win.” If you played Halo more often yourself you could build up your friends list with fellow Halo gamers to be as large as you want it to be.

<mark>This post has been edited by a moderator. Please refrain from making non-constructive posts.</mark>
*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

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> > > > > > > > > > > > Debating about the polls is silly. No matter the result of them, they don’t matter. This is a creative medium.
> > > > > > > > > > > > Success in creative mediums is often attained by subverting expectations and giving people something they didn’t expect to love but end up loving.
> > > > > > > > > > > > “Anti sprinters” are convinced replacing sprint with high BMS will do this and no data exists that can disprove this theory.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Equally along those lines no data exists that can prove such a theory… This being the creative medium that it is, all we can do is discuss the issue with fellow fans that are not all like-minded regarding sprint. Personally, I think I’ve heard and seen many points supporting why one high BMS will definitely not replace sprint and would make Halo worse… Anti sprinters would tell you different, but I do agree insofar that no one should be here with the intention to “disprove,” “dismantle,” and/or “destroy,” opinions from our fellow fans about this.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I got three reasons for you.
> > > > > > > > > > 1. Halo: CE
> > > > > > > > > > 2. Halo 2
> > > > > > > > > > 3. Halo 3
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I’ve got three reasons for you.
> > > > > > > > > 1) Reach
> > > > > > > > > 2) Halo 4
> > > > > > > > > 3) Halo 5
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Reach, 4 & 5 are the three most controversial Halo titles.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > What evidence to you have to support that opinion?
> > > > > > > Sure Halo used to be more popular but there are a large number of factor in play as to why an overall decline of popularity has taken place. My point is that one in game mechanic has little to do with pressure an increase in competition from other FPS titles, games, and platforms. Either way Reach, 4, and 5 have still been successful.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Halo is diverting from what made it succesful, and sprint is a major diversion.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Do you have any real argument to support that stance? Posting the titles of Halo games doesn’t really do anything. There are a wide array of reasons why Halo could be less popular than it once was- it’s arguable that it could have been even less popular without changing up the formula in each title. They can’t very well just package up an expansion pack and market it as a sequel, because other than that there’s no way to avoid “diverting,” from previous titles when Halo sequels are launched.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > There are many ways to change up halo without incoporating sprint. Halo CE, 2 & 3 proved that.
> > >
> > >
> > > No they didn’t. All you’re doing is posting the titles of those games and using that to try and “prove,” things. Sprint has remained in Halo for the past 3 AAA titles in the franchise because it fits in well in Halo. Halo Reach, Halo 4, and Halo 5 have proven that sprint can become a core mechanic of gameplay and should stay in Halo.
> >
> >
> > I look on my Xbox Live friends list (on my old account), and no one is playing Halo. My friends and their friends, and their friends’ friends don’t play Halo. Yes, I just went through 78 people, and two tiers of Friends Lists. Last time I checked, nearly everyone on my friends list played Halo until Reach came around, and then when 4 came out, a handul was playing Halo.
>
>
> At times I have hundreds of players on my friends list playing Halo 5, with several dozen being the fewest that are ever on at the oddest hours of the day… I can’t tell you why you don’t have friends playing Halo, but in the words of the house at Vegas, “You gotta play to win.” If you played Halo more often yourself you could build up your friends list with fellow Halo gamers to be as large as you want it to be.

http://i.imgur.com/tyTc1Nl.jpg

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> > > At times I have hundreds of players on my friends list playing Halo 5, with several dozen being the fewest that are ever on at the oddest hours of the day… I can’t tell you why you don’t have friends playing Halo, but in the words of the house at Vegas, “You gotta play to win.” If you played Halo more often yourself you could build up your friends list with fellow Halo gamers to be as large as you want it to be.

All of those kids on you’re friends list are the minority and kids you just added when you met them randomly in a match. I haven’t heard anyone in public or any of my friends talk about Halo in years. Halo used to be the game everyone used to talk about and brag about their rank at school or talk about playing custom games. Nobody does that anymore and nobody has since Halo 3 and a little bit of Reach. Just because you add random kids that play Halo 5 and it shows on your friends list doesn’t mean anything. Just look at the population count. It’s sad and the game has only been out for a little over a year.

I think sprint is good but not my first choice for armor abilities because of the other more useful abilities like active camo

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> > > > > > > > > This guy must have the advanced thrusters mod on. Dodging questions like a pro!
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What your thought process is, is A LOT different than the rest of us, even the other pro sprinters.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > To the contrary, my thought process lines up pretty closely with Josh Holmes (343i Executive Producer) when he advocated for sprint here and here.
> > > > >
> > > > > I just want to seek a viable compromise, such as the potential for split settings/playlists in the next Halo game regarding sprint so that as many fans as possible will be satisfied with the game.
> >
> >
> > 4) Now that is just straight up wrong, no matter how you try to interpret it. It was Halo Reach, and everyone had a CHOICE of using sprint or not. Sprint or movement modifiers weren’t even a thing in Halo 3. I don’t know what series you’ve been playing, but Halo has never had map pickup abilities except for Camo and Overshields. You’re just reaching at this point.
> >
> > 3) Then you might as well play Battlefield with that logic. Why have two games that are almost essentially the same thing? Halo is about point blank-mid range engagements in Arena maps, and short-long range chaos in BTB, Invasion, and Warzone. Reducing map sizes isn’t going backwards, it’s to IMPROVE GAME FLOW of Arena maps, if and ONLY IF sprint isn’t included. I don’t remember if I told this to you or someone else, but Battlefield is about “simulating” warfare. Halo is about having controlled chaos, and the design of CE-Reach and 5 Arena show it. Low player counts, smaller and easy to learn maps, “equal” starts and map pickups, and mostly balanced equipment. Halo 4 is the only one to break most of these characteristics, and look at where that got Halo. Halo Reach had equal starts because everyone had the same Loadout options. It’s the same as League of Legend’s champions, but not as in-depth. If player count is increased, so too is randomness.
> >
> > 2) Ok then, prove it’s not related. If I play Battlefield at 120 FOV and never use vehicles, I feel fast when moving through Caspian Border and Siege of Shanghai because the edge of the screen moves faster than the middle of the screen. If I play those same maps at console FOV, I feel the need to use vehicles because my camera “isn’t going anywhere”. It’s directly related to player perception and whether sprint is needed or not. FOV may not solve pacing issues, but it artificially solves it by giving the perception that there are no pacing issues.
> >
> > 1) I might take that back if you don’t understand what I’m trying to say. I might ask you to reiterate and paraphrase before I do though.
>
>
> 1) Just gonna let that one go entirely because there’s no point at all to continue down that train of thought that with you.
>
> 2) Battlefield isn’t Halo. Halo 3 had FOV issues and that game didn’t have sprint. Sprint could have helped game play in that game but either way that game demonstrated that FOV problems can (and did) still exist in Halo in the absence of any perceived sprint issues.
>
> 3) You’re the one who literally just used Battlefield as an example for 120 FOV so why couldn’t I tell you to “Just play Battlefield instead,” in just the same way you’re trying to tell me to do it in that point? Increasing map size can and will work in the next Halo if they just increase the player count and keep sprint (Increasing player count doesn’t just “increase randomness” as you’re suggesting it would… Increasing map sizes increases the fun factor and increasing the player count enables developers with the ability to create larger maps). You’re really only suggesting that “map sizes should be reduced,” in order to remain in line with your anti-sprint opinion. Outside of that there’s no reason to assume that larger maps can’t or won’t work for the next Halo title.
>
> 4) So after looking this up I found that the sprint power up was on CE, big whoop- it still created problems as the source explains.

I don’t think that you understand the impact of FoV in first person games. A low FoV makes a game feel slower. This is why Halo 3 feels so slow. Faster FoV makes you feel faster. That’s what FightingChances is trying to say, I think, when talking about Battlefield, as that games give you the option to increase or decease the FoV in the options. Look at this video, or this one. Look at how much faster those games look with that increased FoV. That is what people are talking about when they say FoV makes a game feel faster. We don’t need sprint to make a Halo game feel faster. Especially if it is going to have all the negative that it does.

Every benefit that sprint has can be (and has been) achieved through other means without the negatives that Sprint creates. The only reason that sprint is in Halo today is because 343i are scared that they aren’t going to be able to attract the CoD kids (Josh Holmes more or less admitted this by saying that the only reason sprint is in the game is because people expect it), something that they have failed to do anyways, while also alienating a lot of the core Halo fanbase. There is a reason that people fled Halo 4 immediately and why Halo 5 is the worst selling game in the series. If Halo 6 follows this same formula I’m seriously afraid that one of my favorite gaming series will die. People don’t like it. Halo never dropped out of the top 10 most played games on Xbox Live before Halo 4, and now it is consistently below it, even with all the updates and consistent support. (right now it’s 19th) Something has to change to make Halo popular again, and I truly do believe that that taking sprint out and going back to the series roots is what needs to happen. Increasing the FoV will go a long way in making the game feel fast even after removing sprint. I’m not going to sit here and say that Halo 3 doesn’t feel slow, it does, but saying that sprint should be added to the game shows a complete misunderstanding of how games work.

> 2533274889877943;11408:
> > 2625759425619671;11405:
> >
>
>
> 1) According to that twitter thread, he also said that " It’s a crutch for “too big” maps.
>
> 2) And when the designers start building FOR sprint, it’s a vicious circle. " which seems to completely nullify any reasoning to include it and is probably the reason there are so many issues with multiplayer currently.

  1. Could you cite that “it’s a crutch for ‘too big,’ maps” statement for me please?

  2. I don’t follow… Are you implying that because “whether or not to to implement sprint,” went through a decision-making process during the development of Halo Reach that it was somehow a “vicious circle,” of sorts to you? One that seems to account for any and all of the “issues,” and/or faults that you see in Halo’s multiplayer today? At face value I simply cannot agree with what you’re trying to insinuate here, but if there’s a deeper meaning behind that or sources to go with it then please share.

> 2535414876585185;1:
> MODERATOR EDIT:
>
> As this thread has reached 10,000 posts, there is no better time to make it clear that this is the official sprint thread where all sprint related discussion shall be directed, and give the title an accompanying face lift.
>
> Original OP:
>
>
> > Halo 6 could be the game EVERYONE wants by removing sprint in campaign (yes because who the -Yoink- needs TWO movement speeds in campaign???) and
> > arena multiplayer at first I thought a no sprint playlist might be optimal but hear me out. I pretty sure the new spartan abilities (save -Yoinking!- spartan charge) would be GENERALLY accepted in a halo game if they werent accompanied by sprint it would feel more competitive more strategic and would also still be recognizable to the fine tuned experience we got in halo 5. Warzone and customs would be a whole other beast entirely retaining ALL the features that made halo 5 successful would keep warzone great and would also allow more options for custom games, for those people that actually wanted to play in a sprint arena type setting they could actually fire up the in game custom game lobby adjust the filter and be good to go! lets face it, sprint has NO place in competitve halo and to argue that it does would just be absurd. this would allow arena maps to continue to be designed the PROPER way and please the vets and basically everyone whos willing to give it a chance and you wouldnt lose much of your sprint loving audience at all because there would still be sprint in the game it would just take a backseat!
> > Thoughts? :3

how will you get to cover quickly so you can get your health back up?

<mark>This post has been edited by a moderator. Please refrain from making non-constructive posts.</mark>

*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

> 2533274800772611;11414:
> > 2625759425619671;11405:
> > > 2535464451695009;11381:
> > > > 2625759425619671;11377:
> > > > > 2535464451695009;11369:
> > > > > > 2625759425619671;11328:
> > > > > > > 2535464451695009;11325:
> > > > > > > > 2625759425619671;11321:
> > > > > > > > > 2533274886529017;11318:
> > > > > > > > > > 2625759425619671;11308:
> > > > > > > > > > This guy must have the advanced thrusters mod on. Dodging questions like a pro!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > What your thought process is, is A LOT different than the rest of us, even the other pro sprinters.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > To the contrary, my thought process lines up pretty closely with Josh Holmes (343i Executive Producer) when he advocated for sprint here and here.
> > > > > > I just want to seek a viable compromise, such as the potential for split settings/playlists in the next Halo game regarding sprint so that as many fans as possible will be satisfied with the game.
> > >
> > >
> > > 4) Now that is just straight up wrong, no matter how you try to interpret it. It was Halo Reach, and everyone had a CHOICE of using sprint or not. Sprint or movement modifiers weren’t even a thing in Halo 3. I don’t know what series you’ve been playing, but Halo has never had map pickup abilities except for Camo and Overshields. You’re just reaching at this point.
> > > 3) Then you might as well play Battlefield with that logic. Why have two games that are almost essentially the same thing? Halo is about point blank-mid range engagements in Arena maps, and short-long range chaos in BTB, Invasion, and Warzone. Reducing map sizes isn’t going backwards, it’s to IMPROVE GAME FLOW of Arena maps, if and ONLY IF sprint isn’t included. I don’t remember if I told this to you or someone else, but Battlefield is about “simulating” warfare. Halo is about having controlled chaos, and the design of CE-Reach and 5 Arena show it. Low player counts, smaller and easy to learn maps, “equal” starts and map pickups, and mostly balanced equipment. Halo 4 is the only one to break most of these characteristics, and look at where that got Halo. Halo Reach had equal starts because everyone had the same Loadout options. It’s the same as League of Legend’s champions, but not as in-depth. If player count is increased, so too is randomness.
> > > 2) Ok then, prove it’s not related. If I play Battlefield at 120 FOV and never use vehicles, I feel fast when moving through Caspian Border and Siege of Shanghai because the edge of the screen moves faster than the middle of the screen. If I play those same maps at console FOV, I feel the need to use vehicles because my camera “isn’t going anywhere”. It’s directly related to player perception and whether sprint is needed or not. FOV may not solve pacing issues, but it artificially solves it by giving the perception that there are no pacing issues.
> > > 1) I might take that back if you don’t understand what I’m trying to say. I might ask you to reiterate and paraphrase before I do though.
> >
> >
> > 1) Just gonna let that one go entirely because there’s no point at all to continue down that train of thought that with you.
> > 2) Battlefield isn’t Halo. Halo 3 had FOV issues and that game didn’t have sprint. Sprint could have helped game play in that game but either way that game demonstrated that FOV problems can (and did) still exist in Halo in the absence of any perceived sprint issues.
> > 3) You’re the one who literally just used Battlefield as an example for 120 FOV so why couldn’t I tell you to “Just play Battlefield instead,” in just the same way you’re trying to tell me to do it in that point? Increasing map size can and will work in the next Halo if they just increase the player count and keep sprint (Increasing player count doesn’t just “increase randomness” as you’re suggesting it would… Increasing map sizes increases the fun factor and increasing the player count enables developers with the ability to create larger maps). You’re really only suggesting that “map sizes should be reduced,” in order to remain in line with your anti-sprint opinion. Outside of that there’s no reason to assume that larger maps can’t or won’t work for the next Halo title.
> > 4) So after looking this up I found that the sprint power up was on CE, big whoop- it still created problems as the source explains.
>
>
> 1) I don’t think that you understand the impact of FoV in first person games.
> 2) I’m not going to sit here and say that Halo 3 doesn’t feel slow, it does, but saying that sprint should be added to the game shows a complete misunderstanding of how games work.

  1. Yes I do understand how FOV impacts FPS titles.
  2. Since that’s how you chose to open and close (when summarizing) your post here then I’m naturally going to assume that that was your intent of the entire post… You just wanted to try and prove that I “show a complete misunderstanding of how games work,” which doesn’t even have anything to do with whether or not sprint should remain in Halo. Your intent was to try and prove why you think that I don’t understand how games work which is null IMO. And just like you admitted, Halo 3 does have FOV problems and that game didn’t feature sprint. You basically contradicted yourself because you’re acknowledging that I do have an understanding of FOV (and agreeing with me to an extent) only to flip around in the next sentence to accuse me of “show[ing] a complete misunderstanding of how games work.” I doubt that I would be able to make a point about how Halo 3 worked that you’d have to reluctantly agree to if that were truly the case.

> 2625759425619671;11415:
> > 2533274889877943;11408:
> > > 2625759425619671;11405:
> > >
> >
> >
> > 1) According to that twitter thread, he also said that " It’s a crutch for “too big” maps.
> >
> > 2) And when the designers start building FOR sprint, it’s a vicious circle. " which seems to completely nullify any reasoning to include it and is probably the reason there are so many issues with multiplayer currently.
>
>
> 1) Could you cite that “it’s a crutch for ‘too big,’ maps” statement for me please?
>
> 2) I don’t follow… Are you implying that because “whether or not to to implement sprint,” went through a decision-making process during the development of Halo Reach that it was somehow a “vicious circle,” of sorts to you? One that seems to account for any and all of the “issues,” and/or faults that you see in Halo’s multiplayer today? At face value I simply cannot agree with what you’re trying to insinuate here, but if there’s a deeper meaning behind that or sources to go with it then please share.

I think it’s been stated more than once that Halo Reach’s multiplayer was not popular because of the armor abilities mostly among a few other things. Sprint was undoubtedly one of the top reasons for that seeing as you started with sprint as your default armor ability from the start.

> 2625759425619671;11407:
> > 2549359074790154;11401:
> > > 2625759425619671;11399:
> > > > 2549359074790154;11387:
> > > > > 2625759425619671;11366:
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Uhhhhh
> > > > http://i.imgur.com/RNH8JKH.png
> > > > Yeah… You shouldn’t make -yoink- up.
> > >
> > >
> > > Nobody made anything up… All he stated there was “don’t recall if we toyed with it.” That makes sense since he’s talking about the development cycle of a game that released ~12 years ago. Either way sprint was in the coding of Halo 2 which was my point and that wasn’t made up.
> >
> >
> > I just had the people who built the game say they didn’t include it, so… please, now show me where there was code for this. I want to see a hastebin of the code inside Halo 2 for sprint.
>
>
> I’ve already showed you what you’re asking for. <em>I posted a video where it showed that sprint made it all the way to the very late stages of Halo 2’s development (to the point that it’s in the code of Halo 2 and can even be activated on the PC version</em>); exactly like how the Flood Juggernaut and the Forerunner Tank level made it into the coding of the game. The similarities are such that those things also made it the late stages of development during Halo 2’s prelaunch cycle but were cut at the very end. That’s not "mak[ing] -yoink- up,• as you called it, it’s just making an informed statement about what actually happened. Sprint was planned to be in Halo 2 and just cut at the very latest stages of the prelaunch cycle.

This seems super misleading as in the very video you reference it says that there are only a limited amount of weapons with the animation, and the Elite model lacked them entirely, implying that the mechanic was dropped fairly early in development. There have been a handful of Bungie (both former and existing) that have all said roughly the same thing, that being that Sprint was tried, but it was determined that it didn’t work so they dropped it. There is a reason that Halo 3 didn’t have it, and the fact that it was added to Reach only shows that Bungie were deliberately trying to mix things up with Armor Abilities (which they were).

Bungie knew that Sprint didn’t work in Halo. That’s why they cut it from Halo 2.

> 2535424884364815;11416:
> > 2535414876585185;1:
> > MODERATOR EDIT:
> >
> > As this thread has reached 10,000 posts, there is no better time to make it clear that this is the official sprint thread where all sprint related discussion shall be directed, and give the title an accompanying face lift.
> >
> > Original OP:
> >
> >
> > > Halo 6 could be the game EVERYONE wants by removing sprint in campaign (yes because who the -Yoink- needs TWO movement speeds in campaign???) and
> > > arena multiplayer at first I thought a no sprint playlist might be optimal but hear me out. I pretty sure the new spartan abilities (save -Yoinking!- spartan charge) would be GENERALLY accepted in a halo game if they werent accompanied by sprint it would feel more competitive more strategic and would also still be recognizable to the fine tuned experience we got in halo 5. Warzone and customs would be a whole other beast entirely retaining ALL the features that made halo 5 successful would keep warzone great and would also allow more options for custom games, for those people that actually wanted to play in a sprint arena type setting they could actually fire up the in game custom game lobby adjust the filter and be good to go! lets face it, sprint has NO place in competitve halo and to argue that it does would just be absurd. this would allow arena maps to continue to be designed the PROPER way and please the vets and basically everyone whos willing to give it a chance and you wouldnt lose much of your sprint loving audience at all because there would still be sprint in the game it would just take a backseat!
> > > Thoughts? :3
>
>
> how will you get to cover quickly so you can get your health back up?

You don’t… and that’s the point. That promotes competitive gameplay. Giving you sprint is a crutch and allows you forgiveness for being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

> 2533274889877943;11418:
> > 2625759425619671;11415:
> > > 2533274889877943;11408:
> > > > 2625759425619671;11405:
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > 1) According to that twitter thread, he also said that " It’s a crutch for “too big” maps.
> > >
> > > 2) And when the designers start building FOR sprint, it’s a vicious circle. " which seems to completely nullify any reasoning to include it and is probably the reason there are so many issues with multiplayer currently.
> >
> >
> > 1) Could you cite that “it’s a crutch for ‘too big,’ maps” statement for me please?
> >
> > 2) I don’t follow… Are you implying that because “whether or not to to implement sprint,” went through a decision-making process during the development of Halo Reach that it was somehow a “vicious circle,” of sorts to you? One that seems to account for any and all of the “issues,” and/or faults that you see in Halo’s multiplayer today? At face value I simply cannot agree with what you’re trying to insinuate here, but if there’s a deeper meaning behind that or sources to go with it then please share.
>
>
> 1) https://twitter.com/32nds/status/786972048853602304
>
> 2) I think it’s been stated more than once that Halo Reach’s multiplayer was not popular because of the armor abilities mostly among a few other things. Sprint was undoubtedly one of the top reasons for that seeing as you started with sprint as your default armor ability from the start.

  1. It’s opinion versus opinion anyway.

  2. There were multiple AA’s that were disliked in Reach… Sprint was one of many AA’s so even if AA’s were a problem in Reach it doesn’t mean that sprint was the source of those problems. Armor lock for one was an AA that was hated, along with the regen-bubble shield (Source - Halo Reach: 6 years later discussed the issues with multiple AA’s) That doesn’t make sprint any sort of “undoubted… top reason,” for any perceived lack of success in Halo Reach.

> 2625759425619671;11410:
> > 2535464451695009;11409:
> > > 2625759425619671;11406:
> > > At times I have hundreds of players on my friends list playing Halo 5, with several dozen being the fewest that are ever on at the oddest hours of the day… I can’t tell you why you don’t have friends playing Halo, but in the words of the house at Vegas, “You gotta play to win.” If you played Halo more often yourself you could build up your friends list with fellow Halo gamers to be as large as you want it to be.

And by the way, I can make that claim any time of the day. I can go on to Online Barbie Dreamland, and add every person i play with. I guess that makes Online Barbie Dreamland really popular because everyone on my friends list is playing it

> 2625759425619671;11417:
> > 2533274800772611;11414:
> > > 2625759425619671;11405:
> > > > 2535464451695009;11381:
> > > > > 2625759425619671;11377:
> > > > > > 2535464451695009;11369:
> > > > > > > 2625759425619671;11328:
> > > > > > > > 2535464451695009;11325:
> > > > > > > > > 2625759425619671;11321:
> > > > > > > > > > 2533274886529017;11318:
> > > > > > > > > > > 2625759425619671;11308:
> > > > > > > > > > > This guy must have the advanced thrusters mod on. Dodging questions like a pro!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > What your thought process is, is A LOT different than the rest of us, even the other pro sprinters.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > To the contrary, my thought process lines up pretty closely with Josh Holmes (343i Executive Producer) when he advocated for sprint here and here.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I just want to seek a viable compromise, such as the potential for split settings/playlists in the next Halo game regarding sprint so that as many fans as possible will be satisfied with the game.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 4) Now that is just straight up wrong, no matter how you try to interpret it. It was Halo Reach, and everyone had a CHOICE of using sprint or not. Sprint or movement modifiers weren’t even a thing in Halo 3. I don’t know what series you’ve been playing, but Halo has never had map pickup abilities except for Camo and Overshields. You’re just reaching at this point.
> > > >
> > > > 3) Then you might as well play Battlefield with that logic. Why have two games that are almost essentially the same thing? Halo is about point blank-mid range engagements in Arena maps, and short-long range chaos in BTB, Invasion, and Warzone. Reducing map sizes isn’t going backwards, it’s to IMPROVE GAME FLOW of Arena maps, if and ONLY IF sprint isn’t included. I don’t remember if I told this to you or someone else, but Battlefield is about “simulating” warfare. Halo is about having controlled chaos, and the design of CE-Reach and 5 Arena show it. Low player counts, smaller and easy to learn maps, “equal” starts and map pickups, and mostly balanced equipment. Halo 4 is the only one to break most of these characteristics, and look at where that got Halo. Halo Reach had equal starts because everyone had the same Loadout options. It’s the same as League of Legend’s champions, but not as in-depth. If player count is increased, so too is randomness.
> > > >
> > > > 2) Ok then, prove it’s not related. If I play Battlefield at 120 FOV and never use vehicles, I feel fast when moving through Caspian Border and Siege of Shanghai because the edge of the screen moves faster than the middle of the screen. If I play those same maps at console FOV, I feel the need to use vehicles because my camera “isn’t going anywhere”. It’s directly related to player perception and whether sprint is needed or not. FOV may not solve pacing issues, but it artificially solves it by giving the perception that there are no pacing issues.
> > > >
> > > > 1) I might take that back if you don’t understand what I’m trying to say. I might ask you to reiterate and paraphrase before I do though.
> > >
> > >
> > > 1) Just gonna let that one go entirely because there’s no point at all to continue down that train of thought that with you.
> > >
> > > 2) Battlefield isn’t Halo. Halo 3 had FOV issues and that game didn’t have sprint. Sprint could have helped game play in that game but either way that game demonstrated that FOV problems can (and did) still exist in Halo in the absence of any perceived sprint issues.
> > >
> > > 3) You’re the one who literally just used Battlefield as an example for 120 FOV so why couldn’t I tell you to “Just play Battlefield instead,” in just the same way you’re trying to tell me to do it in that point? Increasing map size can and will work in the next Halo if they just increase the player count and keep sprint (Increasing player count doesn’t just “increase randomness” as you’re suggesting it would… Increasing map sizes increases the fun factor and increasing the player count enables developers with the ability to create larger maps). You’re really only suggesting that “map sizes should be reduced,” in order to remain in line with your anti-sprint opinion. Outside of that there’s no reason to assume that larger maps can’t or won’t work for the next Halo title.
> > >
> > > 4) So after looking this up I found that the sprint power up was on CE, big whoop- it still created problems as the source explains.
> >
> >
> > 1) I don’t think that you understand the impact of FoV in first person games.
> >
> > 2) I’m not going to sit here and say that Halo 3 doesn’t feel slow, it does, but saying that sprint should be added to the game shows a complete misunderstanding of how games work.
>
>
> 1) Yes I do understand how FOV impacts FPS titles.
>
> 2) Since that’s how you chose to open and close (when summarizing) your post here then I’m naturally going to assume that that was your intent of the entire post… You just wanted to try and prove that I “show a complete misunderstanding of how games work,” which doesn’t even have anything to do with whether or not sprint should remain in Halo. Your intent was to try and prove why you think that I don’t understand how games work which is null IMO. And just like you admitted, Halo 3 does have FOV problems and that game didn’t feature sprint. You basically contradicted yourself because you’re acknowledging that I do have an understanding of FOV (and agreeing with me to an extent) only to flip around in the next sentence to accuse me of “show[ing] a complete misunderstanding of how games work.” I doubt that I would be able to make a point about how Halo 3 worked that you’d have to reluctantly agree to if that were truly the case.

You said that sprint would have helped halo 3 feel faster. Something that doesn’t really make any sense. That’s why I said you don’t have a great understanding of games. Halo 3’s “speed” problem had nothing to do with how fast you moved and had 100% to do with the FoV. I think we agree on this point, but you also say that FoV and Sprint have nothing to do with each other, which is what I disagree with. A primary defense for Sprint in Halo is that it makes the games feel faster, a point that doesn’t make sense when you look at the increased FoV footage I posted before. People like to complain that the older games “feel slow” (particularly Halo 3) and that that is why Sprint should be in Halo. That’s what I’m talking about. FoV is why Halo 3 feels slow and not the lack of sprint.