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> > > > > > > > > My fault I thought I had found the post, but I discussed vehicles on the subsequent reply which I gave to you… This one before it was where I discussed why I feel that teleporters and man canons aren’t a substitute to sprint (Point #1 in the post).
> > > > > > > >
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> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Do you think the MLG Community would have needed to increase BMS by 10% if there was a “sprint,” button already that just increased BMS by 10-20%?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yes, they would have. Sprint would have been removed.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This is the same case for Reach after the TU. Why did we remove all the abilities including sprint but make the BMS faster?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Because we didn’t want to damage the competitive integrity of the settings. If most of the competitive community had their way, I’d say sprint wouldn’t stand a chance in staying. There is absolutely no reason to separate movement and combat, something we have always been able to do. All sprint does is pander to casuals who think it somehow adds depth and “tactical” thinking, when all it does is make anything outside of movement sluggish. Sprint is more of a detriment to competitive gameplay, as it ruins a consistent pace, and forces you to put your gun down, and restricts you in a forward motion. It’s a text book example of a mechanic that serves no purpose other than to please #immersion and other fan bases.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I’d say H3 wouldn’t have done well at all either if it had sprint. The game was built off of the hype of CE and H2, widely praised for their multiplayers. Changing the gameplay is not how you keep fans, it’s how you lose them. The only reason H5 is doing well right now is because it’s doing some things right. Complete changes to franchises do not help at all (ex. Reach, “Halo” 4, GOW Judgement).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sorry for the mistakes, I’m on mobile ATM.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Okay I understand your feelings against sprint but you can’t honestly claim that “sprint would have been removed,” even if you think it may have been. First of all the entire situation was hypothetical anyways so let’s not get too carried away here… But either way, permanent sprint wasn’t “removed,” in any other Halo so no reason to think it would have been removed in Halo 3 (even if they would have had the option to remove it). I didn’t suggest adding sprint as an AA like it was in Reach so I don’t think using that to claim “sprint would have been removed,” is really something you can definitively claim as fact here but I understand why you personally wouldn’t like it in that game. What we do know for sure is that the BMS had to be increased by 10% for the competitive community so it seems reasonable to assume that if there was a way to sprint 10-20% faster then there would have been no reason for them to adjust BMS at all.
> > > > >
> > > > > I also think no sprint, “panders to casuals,” more so because it slows down the pace of play for everyone on the map. I’ve also provided numerous other reasons why I disagree that sprint serves many more purposes than “#immersion”
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Then please explain why Halo Reach NBNS removed sprint. Why didn’t they just keep sprint? I’m using facts and logic to assume that the same would have been done with Halo 3 had sprint been an AA.
> > > >
> > > > I can’t believe we are still having this conversation. HCE is the fastest Halo in the franchise. It did not have sprint. Quake, UT, CSGO, all don’t feature sprint, and are faster than Halo 5. It isnt the casual community that want sprint gone. If they did, why are the people who usually want it to stay sub plat?
> > > >
> > > > Your points are always going back to being subjective. They always revolve around “going faster” , or lore. Unless you have a different reason I haven’t seen. A simple FOV increase after going forward after a period of 5 seconds would be able even better alternative to sprint, as you would think you’re going faster.
> > >
> > >
> > > Okay let’s keep this in perspective- first of all this is a completely hypothetical situation. Neither one of us can “use logic,” to say what would have happened in this make-believe situation.
> > >
> > > 1) I understand your proposed logic regarding the later removal of Reach’s AA’s.
> > >
> > > 2) I didn’t suggest adding sprint as an AA- And BMS was increased by 10% so it’s logical to assume that a 10-20% increase in movement via sprint would have potentially accomplished the same thing as tweaking those settings.
> > >
> > > And my points do not always revolve around “going faster,” and I’m sorry if you feel that way… It must mean that you haven’t read them all, which is fine I suppose. If “#immersion,” is all you really seem to get out of pro sprinters on this discussion then it’s understandable why the discussion must be frustrating for you. But that’s not what I’ve seen from pro sprinters at least, so it doesn’t seem fair to me that you’d try to write everyone of them off like that.
> >
> >
> > Yes we can. Reach had sprint, it was removed and the BMS was increased. Why would it not happen for Halo 3?
> >
> > No it wouldn’t have. Restricting movement, putting your gun down, restricting turning, all of that wouldn’t have been good for H3. If you seriously think that sprint would work in H3, I don’t know where to start man. Everything would need to be changed. Why do you think it was removed in H2 and kept out of H3? Balance. Reach was their middle finger to Halo to begin with, so who cares what they did.
> >
> > Then explain. Your points are BTB/WZ related to moving faster. What else is there that sprint accomplishes? Nothing. I’m not trying to write off anyone’s opinions, but if we need gameplay reasons to actually get a discussion. Debating subjectivity is like debating semantics. It’s pointless.
>
>
> There is equally enough evidence to support why sprint would have been accepted under the conditions that I gave to you. In your own pretend version of Halo 3 getting sprint I guess you can think they would have removed it… But no reason to think that it couldn’t have solved the 10% increase problem. I didn’t say you had to put your gun down either, especially to move 10-20% faster. I said that it wouldn’t have had to be as fast as it was in later Halo titles.
This would work fine then I guess, if it worked like a speed boost. Sprint with the animations would break the flow otherwise.
@Sin shoot2kill
The whole discussion about whether or not h3 would include sprint in MLG is pointless. What we do know is that HR also had sprint, but they removed it and increased the BMS. The most logical thing would be that the same thing would have happened. The competitive community do not like compromises as the settings are not made for a casual audience.
It’s pretty stupid that super soldier with an approximate top speed of 100km/h would ever go faster than a light jog. /s
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> It’s pretty stupid that super soldier with an approximate top speed of 30km/h would ever go faster than a light jog. /s
It’s pretty stupid that a super soldier can’t move faster than 5km/h while firing his weapon.
Also I’m pretty sure he can go faster than 30 lol. That’s really not that fast. I think the lore states he can go like 80.
I would love to know the reasons why 343 wont listen to the pros or let them pick the settings and the conditions that THEY have to play under. I don’t know if they (pros) would do anything with regards the movement speed or abilities and its rare you see spartan charge at high level play, radar needs some play testing but -Yoink- like the splinters the autos damage, its just easy cheap kills that really don’t make for interesting gamplay to watch or play. If they had an actual social playlist (arena slayer) and then competitive this really wouldn’t be an issue.
Other than worrying that it proves they don’t know how to balance their own game properly I can’t think of one decent reason. If they truly want to help the scene grow there needs to be more transparency and a willingness for change.
But im going off topic, pray for halo 6
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> > It’s pretty stupid that super soldier with an approximate top speed of 30km/h would ever go faster than a light jog. /s
>
>
> It’s pretty stupid that a super soldier can’t move faster than 5km/h while firing his weapon.
>
> Also I’m pretty sure he can go faster than 30 lol. That’s really not that fast. I think the lore states he can go like 80.
Heh… I think it’s pretty stupid that he’d have to have a special button on his suit that he had to push just to go from a light jog to a full run, but over 500 pages and 11k posts later…
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> @SiN SHOOT2KILL
>
> The competitive community do not like compromises as the settings are not made for a casual audience.
Agreed but you mentioned earlier you felt that having split settings would be a viable compromise. At the very least it would empower players to pick their preference between having sprint or not having sprint; versus thrusting things upon them one way or the other.
> 2533274833421741;11182:
> Besides, your telling me these Spartans, who have like jets and augments and are like 8 feet tall, aren’t supposed to be able to run? I also think the shield recharge not starting while sprinting is more than enough “deterrent”
Oh, the good old lore argument. Always hilarious, despite how ludicrous the idea of a Spartan’s shields being tied to their forward movement speed is.
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> > @SiN SHOOT2KILL
> >
> > The competitive community do not like compromises as the settings are not made for a casual audience.
>
>
> Agreed but you mentioned earlier you felt that having split settings would be a viable compromise. At the very least it would empower players to pick their preference between having sprint or not having sprint; versus thrusting things upon them one way or the other.
My statement was for competitive settings/Arena.
4v4 should not have sprint, and everything else could have sprint if needed (it isn’t). What are your thoughts on a FOV increase after a period of time? It’s a placebo just like sprint but without the damage done to maps. Maps don’t have to be too big for no reason from this like Warzone (Apex, the temple map, Noctus).
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> > > @SiN SHOOT2KILL
> > >
> > > The competitive community do not like compromises as the settings are not made for a casual audience.
> >
> >
> > Agreed but you mentioned earlier you felt that having split settings would be a viable compromise. At the very least it would empower players to pick their preference between having sprint or not having sprint; versus thrusting things upon them one way or the other.
>
>
> My statement was for competitive settings/Arena.
>
> 4v4 should not have sprint, and everything else could have sprint if needed (it isn’t). What are your thoughts on a FOV increase after a period of time? It’s a placebo just like sprint but without the damage done to maps. Maps don’t have to be too big for no reason from this like Warzone (Apex, the temple map, Noctus).
I think that’s about as close as we might get then, as far as a compromise goes… Personally I still believe sprint is needed for everything however I’m all about compromise and would like to see everyone enjoy Halo. If that means making some of the game types in matchmaking exclude sprint then I’m for it as long as sprint remains on larger maps such as the maps on BTB, Warzone, Firefight and even campaign. If 4v4 competitive and/or classic playlists emerge without sprint and people actually want to play those game types then I say so be it. I won’t play them, but I’ll be glad to see more fans getting what they want out of Halo.
I think that FOV is technically a separate issue albeit the FOV discussion can be tied to sprint in certain ways. I’d say any messing around with FOV to tweak it should probably be done in earlier stages of development… Perhaps during an open beta at the very latest (IMO since you asked) but I’m not wholly against 343i trying to tweak FOV if it can potentially improve the overall quality of the game.
Also I’d personally like to see the maps get even bigger to potentially accommodate even more players than Warzone offered so we differ there as well… Overall it seems we both want a lot of the same things out of the next Halo but no two fans are completely alike either. Makes sense that we wouldn’t want to see the exact same things out the next Halo, but at least we can discuss things we disagree upon with a (mostly) open mind. I mainly want to see my favorite franchise continue to be more successful- I think Halo 5 was a step in the right direction after Halo 4 but there are still a lot of lessons to be learned and ways to improve the next sequel. I don’t want to see sprint completely removed but it would certainly be interesting to see how well-received any potential non-sprint playlists would be in the community.
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> > > > @SiN SHOOT2KILL
> > > >
> > > > The competitive community do not like compromises as the settings are not made for a casual audience.
> > >
> > >
> > > Agreed but you mentioned earlier you felt that having split settings would be a viable compromise. At the very least it would empower players to pick their preference between having sprint or not having sprint; versus thrusting things upon them one way or the other.
> >
> >
> > My statement was for competitive settings/Arena.
> >
> > 4v4 should not have sprint, and everything else could have sprint if needed (it isn’t). What are your thoughts on a FOV increase after a period of time? It’s a placebo just like sprint but without the damage done to maps. Maps don’t have to be too big for no reason from this like Warzone (Apex, the temple map, Noctus).
>
>
> I think that’s about as close as we might get then, as far as a compromise goes… Personally I still believe sprint is needed for everything however I’m all about compromise and would like to see everyone enjoy Halo. If that means making some of the game types in matchmaking exclude sprint then I’m for it as long as sprint remains on larger maps such as the maps on BTB, Warzone, Firefight and even campaign. If 4v4 competitive and/or classic playlists emerge without sprint and people actually want to play those game types then I say so be it. I won’t play them, but I’ll be glad to see more fans getting what they want out of Halo.
>
> I think that FOV is technically a separate issue albeit the FOV discussion can be tied to sprint in certain ways. I’d say any messing around with FOV to tweak it should probably be done in earlier stages of development… Perhaps during an open beta at the very latest (IMO since you asked) but I’m not wholly against 343i trying to tweak FOV if it can potentially improve the overall quality of the game.
>
> Also I’d personally like to see the maps get even bigger to potentially accommodate even more players than Warzone offered so we differ there as well…
Warzone maps are already too big. I’d say on a heat map the kill distribution would ignore 80% of every map. The center and bases are the only areas where kills are common.
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> > > > > @SiN SHOOT2KILL
> > > > >
> > > > > The competitive community do not like compromises as the settings are not made for a casual audience.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Agreed but you mentioned earlier you felt that having split settings would be a viable compromise. At the very least it would empower players to pick their preference between having sprint or not having sprint; versus thrusting things upon them one way or the other.
> > >
> > >
> > > My statement was for competitive settings/Arena.
> > >
> > > 4v4 should not have sprint, and everything else could have sprint if needed (it isn’t). What are your thoughts on a FOV increase after a period of time? It’s a placebo just like sprint but without the damage done to maps. Maps don’t have to be too big for no reason from this like Warzone (Apex, the temple map, Noctus).
> >
> >
> > I think that’s about as close as we might get then, as far as a compromise goes… Personally I still believe sprint is needed for everything however I’m all about compromise and would like to see everyone enjoy Halo. If that means making some of the game types in matchmaking exclude sprint then I’m for it as long as sprint remains on larger maps such as the maps on BTB, Warzone, Firefight and even campaign. If 4v4 competitive and/or classic playlists emerge without sprint and people actually want to play those game types then I say so be it. I won’t play them, but I’ll be glad to see more fans getting what they want out of Halo.
> >
> > I think that FOV is technically a separate issue albeit the FOV discussion can be tied to sprint in certain ways. I’d say any messing around with FOV to tweak it should probably be done in earlier stages of development… Perhaps during an open beta at the very latest (IMO since you asked) but I’m not wholly against 343i trying to tweak FOV if it can potentially improve the overall quality of the game.
> >
> > Also I’d personally like to see the maps get even bigger to potentially accommodate even more players than Warzone offered so we differ there as well…
>
>
> Warzone maps are already too big. I’d say on a heat map the kill distribution would ignore 80% of every map. The center and bases are the only areas where kills are common.
People are drawn towards bases because capturing them are objectives of the game. Plus some of the maps may have been a little small for 24 players- increasing the player count would help address that issue, not reducing map size and trying to cut out sprint… And if kill distribution is your primary concern then tweaking the objectives of Warzone would help with that. (Also Attack on Sanctum I believe is the temple map you were referring to in your previous post)
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> > > > > > @SiN SHOOT2KILL
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The competitive community do not like compromises as the settings are not made for a casual audience.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Agreed but you mentioned earlier you felt that having split settings would be a viable compromise. At the very least it would empower players to pick their preference between having sprint or not having sprint; versus thrusting things upon them one way or the other.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > My statement was for competitive settings/Arena.
> > > >
> > > > 4v4 should not have sprint, and everything else could have sprint if needed (it isn’t). What are your thoughts on a FOV increase after a period of time? It’s a placebo just like sprint but without the damage done to maps. Maps don’t have to be too big for no reason from this like Warzone (Apex, the temple map, Noctus).
> > >
> > >
> > > I think that’s about as close as we might get then, as far as a compromise goes… Personally I still believe sprint is needed for everything however I’m all about compromise and would like to see everyone enjoy Halo. If that means making some of the game types in matchmaking exclude sprint then I’m for it as long as sprint remains on larger maps such as the maps on BTB, Warzone, Firefight and even campaign. If 4v4 competitive and/or classic playlists emerge without sprint and people actually want to play those game types then I say so be it. I won’t play them, but I’ll be glad to see more fans getting what they want out of Halo.
> > >
> > > I think that FOV is technically a separate issue albeit the FOV discussion can be tied to sprint in certain ways. I’d say any messing around with FOV to tweak it should probably be done in earlier stages of development… Perhaps during an open beta at the very latest (IMO since you asked) but I’m not wholly against 343i trying to tweak FOV if it can potentially improve the overall quality of the game.
> > >
> > > Also I’d personally like to see the maps get even bigger to potentially accommodate even more players than Warzone offered so we differ there as well…
> >
> >
> > Warzone maps are already too big. I’d say on a heat map the kill distribution would ignore 80% of every map. The center and bases are the only areas where kills are common.
>
>
> People are drawn towards bases because capturing them are objectives of the game. Plus some of the maps may have been a little small for 24 players- increasing the player count would help address that issue, not reducing map size and trying to cut out sprint… And if kill distribution is your primary concern then tweaking the objectives of Warzone would help with that. (Also Attack on Sanctum I believe is the map you were referring to in your previous post)
There is too much empty space on the maps. But, it doesn’t matter about my opinions on WZ, I don’t like the mode so I don’t really care what they do with it.
Warzone doesn’t need bigger maps to accomodate more players just more neutral bases around the maps to spread out the increased number of players so they aren’t all directed to the central base or armories, there are plenty of dead zones on the maps that could accomodate smaller bases or capture points. Limiting the fireteam size would help as teams would be working in smaller groups.
With regards traversal if they did go no sprint for warzone although i’ve said before im fine with sprint in warzone especially if its say, a level 2 or 3 armor mod. Why not have certain vehicles spawning in at specific bases, say a bigger more central base will spawn a tank every 5 minutes among other faster vehicles to help navigate the map quicker. You could have teleporters that activate between captured bases but will only allow the team that holds the base to pass through.
Imo the probem with sprint in these bigger modes is it does mean jumping in a scout warthog or mongoose for quick map traversal is something of an afterthought.
I also think if they limited the fireteams to 4 or 5 max they could then introduce a spawn system similar to battlefields where you spawn on team mates, this would also allow solo players a to join a fireteam without being in a party and have a chance at some form of team work.
Theres plenty of ways to improve traversal without the need for sprint it just needs some creativity and imagination but i will concede if theres one gamemode that should have it it would be warzone.
Even warzone would play better with no sprint and high BMS.
It’s just a better way to implement movement in halo. Any version of halo.
> 2625759425619671;11270:
> I think that FOV is technically a separate issue.
>
> Also I’d personally like to see the maps get even bigger to potentially accommodate even more players than Warzone offered so we differ there as well…
It isn’t a separate issue. It’s exactly the reason as to why Halo 3 feels so slow, despite the BMS being no less than Halo 2’s in anything but the strafe department. There’s a reason people praise Halo: CE’s splitscreen FoV. 
The maps can be bigger WITHOUT being improperly balanced for sprint. There’s a difference between sprint scaling, and player scaling with a universal BMS, and if you don’t want dead space, which is abundant on Warzone maps, Apex 7 especially, then one should drop sprint in favor of legitimately good mechanics or improvements to map design. You can make the map bigger in so many differing ways, without compromising gameplay or map integrity, making a map with a heatmap that’s colder than the Arctic, or having artificial distance caused by sprint.
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> > > > > > > > > I prey 343 comes to their senses in H6, and lets us shoot and throw grenades while sprinting.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > That wouldn’t really solve anything.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > It solves not being able to shoot and throw grenades while I run…
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > …which you’ve always been able to do
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > No, I’ve only been able to go at a walking pace. I need 2 different paces of shooting and running to be more effective.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your misconception is that Spartans aren’t always running. In Halo 1-3 the base movement speed was running, and they could still shoot, throw nades, etc.
> > >
> > >
> > > There is running, walking, and dead sprint. I need all 3.
> >
> >
> > You don’t need all three. In fact, you contradicted your own statement saying you only needed two movement speeds. A fast base movement speed eliminates all need for the extra “speeds” because you are always moving fast, always ready to shoot, and it doesn’t ruin map design for Halo games. Because the faster the base movement speed the more variations you can move at without putting yourself in a non-combat ready situation.
>
>
> No I do NEED all 3. I need 3 different ways of varying my speed. There should be a risk to moving at a greater speed, it is silly for there not to be one. Would you shoot better in a dead sprint or moving slowly?
I can guarantee you don’t need all three. Halo already had multiple varying speeds that didn’t involve making you unable to fight back. Spartans in the game are always running and gunning, in fact why are we able to crouch up and down in MP and still remain perfectly accurate? Because video games don’t reflect real life.
> 2533274886529017;11279:
> > 2625759425619671;11270:
> > I think that FOV is technically a separate issue.
> >
> > Also I’d personally like to see the maps get even bigger to potentially accommodate even more players than Warzone offered so we differ there as well…
>
>
> It isn’t a separate issue. It’s exactly the reason as to why Halo 3 feels so slow, despite the BMS being no less than Halo 2’s in anything but the strafe department. There’s a reason people praise Halo: CE’s splitscreen FoV.
>
> The maps can be bigger WITHOUT being improperly balanced for sprint. There’s a difference between sprint scaling, and player scaling with a universal BMS, and if you don’t want dead space, which is abundant on Warzone maps, Apex 7 especially, then one should drop sprint in favor of legitimately good mechanics or improvements to map design. You can make the map bigger in so many differing ways, without compromising gameplay or map integrity, making a map with a heatmap that’s colder than the Arctic, or having artificial distance caused by sprint.
Ya, people who lack knowledge always undervalue the affect FOV has on perceived player speed.
Just boot up MCC and play HCE, h2 and h3 and then play them all on splitscreen. The FOV changes make the games feel very different in terms of movement speed even though the actual movement speed never changes.
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> > yeah keep sprint. and halo is already great
>
>
> Care to elaborate How Halo 5 is Great?
Its fun