The sprint discussion thread

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> > we NEED sprint to be able to get out of harms way
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> This is why we don’t take pro-sprinters seriously, SiN SHOOT2KILL.

Understandable why you may not take that pro sprinter seriously based upon that comment alone but even so they might even be willing to elaborate. I still don’t think that person speaks on behalf of every pro sprinter either-tons of us in this thread have been willing to partake in an inteliigent and in-depth discussion about sprint.

<mark>This post has been edited by a moderator. Please refrain from making non-constructive posts.</mark>

*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

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> Works for me

Weird

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> > > > > > > > > YOU stated that a 10% increase solved the problem of H3’s BMS yet in the next breath say sprint would have done it despite the next Halo game which had sprint got dropped by MLG and the competetive scene has been struggling ever since. You may or may not be trolling but ill say this you are inconsitent and contradict yourself far too often for your opinions to be taken seriously, which funnily enough is exactly whats happening.
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> > > > > > > > The HCS community has been enormously successful in Halo 5, there’s no evidence to support that Halo has been “struggling ever since,” in the competitive scene. There’s nothing contradictory in what I said- Halo 5 has sprint and the competitive community did not have to tweak the default settings to make the game even work in the competitive scene (like they did in Halo 3 when they had one BMS). There’s nothing inconsistent or contradictory about suggesting that the same issues that happened last time Halo had one BMS would just repeat themselves if Halo went back to one BMS.
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> > > > > > > Had nothing to do with its prize pool 343/MS started with half the Reqs, which I believe they said they would match at the release. Can correct me if you wish, nonetheless, it was still a large sum.
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> > > > > > MLG Dallas had a huge prize pool back in 2006 ($100,000 to the first place team). What’s your point?
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> > > > > > Part of the reason that there is an increase in the prize pool is a attributed to the increase in popularity in the game itself; which means that sprint and all- Halo is increasing in popularity in the competitive scene. Another part of the reason is that 343i has been innovative enough to figure out a way to use in-game micro-transactions to help fund the HCS prize pools. Regardless as to how you feel about the micro-transactions, the point remains that the success that 343i accrued from people playing Halo 5 went directly into funding their HCS tournament prize pools.
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> > > > > > Either way the “why,” behind the reason that Halo 5 has been successful in the competitive scene isn’t the issue. The issue is that MIGGY483 tried to assert that, “the competetive scene has been struggling ever since,” which is completely untrue! Halo 5 has been successful in the competitive scene with sprint and all.
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> > > > > 1) I’m convinced you don’t watch the HCS, and know literally nothing about the scene.
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> > > > > 2) Competitive Halo has been doing slightly better in Halo 5.
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> > > > 1) You have no basis for which to stand upon to even tell me something like that… You don’t like sprint so makes sense for you to go on such an offensive but trying to tell me that I “know literally nothing about the scene,” is just stupid so stop it.
> > > >
> > > > 2) Based off… what? Oh yeah, your opinions about how you feel competitive Halo is doing- well based on the millions of viewers that I’ve seen on Twitch for HCS and the millions of dollars in prize pools I think competitive Halo has been doing fine in Halo 5. It’s certainlybeen doing better than it did in Halo 3, with sprint and all…
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> > > > You know in this thread you extreme anti-sprint guys have been very aggressive against anyone with a pro sprint opinion. You try to run people out of the thread if they say they like sprint but won’t get into an argument with you about it. So you’ll continuously press and demand for pro sprint opinions just to try to shoot them down and “demolish,” or “destroy,” (as you call it) any pro sprint opinions that you see anyway. You don’t want to hear people’s opinions on sprint you want to argue to no end about it. That’s really not a debate- you guys are just waging a flame war against sprint.
> > > >
> > > > Understand that this thread is not where sprint/no sprint will be decided. Getting into heated arguments with your fellow Halo fans about this accomplishes nothing but potentially dividing the community further… That’s it. There are potential compromises to this issue that don’t involve shouting matches over sprint/no sprint being an all or nothing issue.
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> > > 1) Is this a joke? This is 100% wrong. No other event besides the HWC Regionals made it even CLOSE to 100k.
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> > > > Part of the reason that there is an increase in the prize pool is a attributed to the increase in popularity in the game itself; which means that sprint and all- Halo is increasing in popularity in the competitive scene.
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> > > 2) Based off of the above statement and you thinking the scene has had millions of views on twitch. SiN, I think you’re trolling us. EU HCS, NA is sub 10k average without OpTic.
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> > > > It’s certainly been doing better than it did in Halo 3, with sprint and all…
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> > > You’re delusional. I’m being serious now, did even WATCH comp H3? I can’t take you seriously anymore, this has to be a troll.
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> > > Look SiN, I’m not trying to be condescending with this post, but almost everything you wrote was completely false.
> > > —
> > > Why do you think we press for reasons? The pro sprint side DOES NOT GIVE THEM. I can give you a whole list of problems sprint does, and an incredibly talented forger is already making a video on sprint and its effects on map design. These are NOT opinions SiN, and we are not trying to attack anyone. The issue is that people on the pro sprint side do not give any reason besides immersion.
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> > > Look, let’s cover some ground here. These are sprint’s cons-
> > >
> > > - Maps are stretched to accommodate the different speeds
> > > - Forced to put gun down to effectively move around the map
> > > - Death is less penalized, as you are able to return fast to the action
> > > - Movement outside of sprint is sluggish to justify you sprinting
> > > - It messes up a consistent pace, since there’re multiple movement speeds you can move at
> > > What are sprint’s pros? There isn’t much to debate about these issues besides the points themselves.
> >
> >
> > Dude, save your sanity and ignore him as best you can. He is literally delusional or trolling.
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> > My new theory is that he’s trying to just say the most flame baity things possible to trigger people so either all the “anti sprint” posters get banned or the thread gets locked. His posts just get more and more ridiculous. It’s gotten to the point where it’s now obvious that he’s trolling.
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> > Im going to start reporting his posts.
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> Are you serious right now? I’ve already reported your last two quotes insulting me and I’m going to report this one too. You asked me to stop quoting you just to turn around and quote me right back again to flame me further. You’re trolling worse than anyone I’ve ever seen on these threads.

You’re purposefully flame baiting and trolling.

@l Jinxed I- as discussed, here is the link to the post where I explained why I actually don’t believe that man canons, teleporters, and vehicles weren’t an adequate substitute for sprint if you’re still interested.

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> @l Jinxed I- as discussed, here is the link to the post where I explained why I actually don’t believe that man canons, teleporters, and vehicles weren’t an adequate substitute for sprint if you’re still interested.

Thank you, however that only discusses vehicles. That doesn’t change the fact that H3 is the slowest Halo with terrible BTB maps (imo). A combination of those two don’t help either.

CE/2 BTB is fast, and it has vehicles and teleporters. I’ll reiterate what I was saying, sprint is not the answer, it’s only a Band-Aid solution that affects every other part of the game besides BTB. Faster spawning vehicles, teleporters in good areas, and man cannons all are better options.

[deleted]

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> > @l Jinxed I- as discussed, here is the link to the post where I explained why I actually don’t believe that man canons, teleporters, and vehicles weren’t an adequate substitute for sprint if you’re still interested.
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> Thank you, however that only discusses vehicles. That doesn’t change the fact that H3 is the slowest Halo with terrible BTB maps (imo). A combination of those two don’t help either.
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> CE/2 BTB is fast, and it has vehicles and teleporters. I’ll reiterate what I was saying, sprint is not the answer, it’s only a Band-Aid solution that affects every other part of the game besides BTB. Faster spawning vehicles, teleporters in good areas, and man cannons all are better options.

My fault I thought I had found the post, but I discussed vehicles on the subsequent reply which I gave to you… This one before it was where I discussed why I feel that teleporters and man canons aren’t a substitute to sprint (Point #1 in the post).

And yeah, I can see and agree regarding Halo 3’s BTB map selection and the fact that it plays slow… Don’t you think that might have been curtailed with sprint, at least to an extent? Camping was a big problem in Halo 3, but if you know someone’s camping then wouldn’t it help break a game like that open to be able to sprint at the campers? And/or to zigzag w/sprint if necessary during such combat? I’m not saying sprint definitely would have made Halo 3’s MP play faster, and we admittedly may never know anyway. But sprint does make close quarters weapons like the assault rifle and even equipment like plasma grenades more useful if you can just get up a little closer (a little faster) in order to deal with those campers. I dunno it’s just my opinion here regarding how much sprint may have changed Halo 3’s pace of combat and I realize you may not wholly agree… What do you think sprint would have done for Halo 3’s slower pace?

Also thank you for providing statistics on viewers for HCS. That was enlightening- I thought it was more popular when I was watching.

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> > we NEED sprint to be able to get out of harms way
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> I’d rather have Thrusters, since, if it’s on a fast cooldown, will save us a lot more times than sprint ever will. It’s fast and covers a lot of distance.

Not enough distance imo. If you’re in the sights of a sniper or a quick shooter, you’re still in jeopardy.

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> I like the sprint feature. Except on Halo 5, you don’t regen. your shields, which is stupid but in some ways makes sence. Gameplay wise, dumb, but lore/fictional wise, make sence. Lore/fiction wise, if you think about it hard enough, your sheilds don’t regen. because you’re using your armor’s power to run faster rather than regen. your shields. Why you can’t do both? I don’t know, it could be a thing, who knows.

It would allow too many runaways. Players would exploit that.

[deleted]

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> > > > we NEED sprint to be able to get out of harms way
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> > > I’d rather have Thrusters, since, if it’s on a fast cooldown, will save us a lot more times than sprint ever will. It’s fast and covers a lot of distance.
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> > Not enough distance imo. If you’re in the sights of a sniper or a quick shooter, you’re still in jeopardy.
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> To be fair, those snipers and quick shooter could still track you even when you’re sprinting, so it doesn’t really matter if you have sprint or thrusters in the open. Even if you use a random comination of walking, running, sprinting, crouching, jumping, and thrusting, they’ll most likely still hit you. Sprinting, like normal running, is a consistent speed, making you an easier target than moving with random bursts of energy. I think thrusters benefit a lot more in smaller areas and Arena maps than sprinting, so yeah.

Which is a totally legitimate argument. Sprinting/thrusting out in the open helps only the sniper lol

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> My fault I thought I had found the post, but I discussed vehicles on the subsequent reply which I gave to you… This one before it was where I discussed why I feel that teleporters and man canons aren’t a substitute to sprint (Point #1 in the post).

No problem.

> 1) Vehicles did not make up for the extremely slow movement speed in Halo 3- not to mention there were never enough of them for everyone in a Big Team map. Teleporters and Man Canons are a slight reprieve to the problem but those are directional and only occasionally cover moving from point a to point b. Those aren’t going to make up for not being able to move around a map any faster- especially since people routinely camped on opposite ends of teleporters and man canons preventing them from being a valid alternative method of transportation to sprint. Speed boost power ups were also rare to find and temporary; leaving a big trail showing all the enemies you were using it and where you were going. Speed boosts can’t fix anything either; particularly on a BTB map if only one person gets to use it at a time anyway.

Teleporters should be used to get to the action faster. I don’t see why sprint is even better, one way is faster than the other. What else would the point be for sprint in BTB if it weren’t for getting from point a to point b? I’ve never encountered this happening myself but that seems more of an issue of the placement. Man cannons, I’ve never heard of anyone camping them. I think speed boosts were only in H2A.

The issue with your stance on these three things is that they can be easily fixed. Instead of affecting the entire game for Big Team, settings and placements could be easily adjusted for movement to be faster, maps could also be built better (Containment, Zanzibar, Headlong) to encourage closer combat. You have to keep in mind H3 has a very low FOV, if it was at 90 we wouldn’t be having this discussion.

> And yeah, I can see and agree regarding Halo 3’s BTB map selection and the fact that it plays slow… Don’t you think that might have been curtailed with sprint, at least to an extent? Camping was a big problem in Halo 3, but if you know someone’s camping then wouldn’t it help break a game like that open to be able to sprint at the campers? And/or to zigzag w/sprint if necessary during such combat? I’m not saying sprint definitely would have made Halo 3’s MP play faster, and we admittedly may never know anyway.
>
> But sprint does make close quarters weapons like the assault rifle and even equipment like plasma grenades more useful if you can just get up a little closer (a little faster) in order to deal with those campers. I dunno it’s just my opinion here regarding how much sprint may have changed Halo 3’s pace of combat and I realize you may not wholly agree… What do you think sprint would have done for Halo 3’s slower pace?
>
> Also thank you for providing statistics on viewers for HCS. That was enlightening- I thought it was more popular when I was watching.

Not at all. The FOV, the BR spread, the netcode, the killtimes, all made it slow. Sprint wouldn’t help at all. Sprint would just lower the BMS and increase sprint speed, making combat even slower. I think it would make camping even worse. Sprinting has already been proven not to mean a game is fast (Quake, CE, Shadowrun).

I think sprint would have break the game. Everything is too slow and sprint would be terrible with slow killtimes. The maps would have to be stretched out as well. H3 would be so much better with 90 FOV, better BR, better netcode, and no spread. Sprint is not necessary at all to make a fast game.

No problem man. Just trying to clear up the misconception.

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> > > 2) Wrong… You actually can die from plasma pistols in the Halo games. I have 270 Plasma pistol kills in Warzone in Halo 5. Plasma pistol kills were even a commendation in Halo 4.
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> > You must think a Void’s Tear kill counts. Yunno, the Plasma Pistol that hauls you into a black hole and continuously damages you, while being super easy to use. He’s talking about a regular Plasma Pistol. Default. Just plasma rounds. No black holes, no infinite holding charge. And so what if they were a commendation in Halo 4? You know what was also a commendation in Halo 4? Pulse Grenades. I don’t get how that justifies/proves your point.
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> All I said is that you can die from plasma pistols in Halo and linked proof of it. You could get kills with plasma pistols in multiple ways beyond just the Voids Tear. There was no Voids Tear in Halo 4 either and you still had to complete the Plasma Pistol kill commendation for Weapon Mastery. There was even an entire game mode in matchmaking with only plasma pistols called Paintball.

My point about the plasma comment was that plasma is a HUGE issue to Spartans. It melts. I was using it to counter lore/immersion.

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> > > we NEED sprint to be able to get out of harms way
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> >
> > This is why we don’t take pro-sprinters seriously, SiN SHOOT2KILL.
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> Understandable why you may not take that pro sprinter seriously based upon that comment alone but even so they might even be willing to elaborate. I still don’t think that person speaks on behalf of every pro sprinter either-tons of us in this thread have been willing to partake in an inteliigent and in-depth discussion about sprint.

This is the majority of the thread. You can see why we’re upset.

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> > My fault I thought I had found the post, but I discussed vehicles on the subsequent reply which I gave to you… This one before it was where I discussed why I feel that teleporters and man canons aren’t a substitute to sprint (Point #1 in the post).
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> No problem.
>
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> > 1) Vehicles did not make up for the extremely slow movement speed in Halo 3- not to mention there were never enough of them for everyone in a Big Team map. Teleporters and Man Canons are a slight reprieve to the problem but those are directional and only occasionally cover moving from point a to point b. Those aren’t going to make up for not being able to move around a map any faster- especially since people routinely camped on opposite ends of teleporters and man canons preventing them from being a valid alternative method of transportation to sprint. Speed boost power ups were also rare to find and temporary; leaving a big trail showing all the enemies you were using it and where you were going. Speed boosts can’t fix anything either; particularly on a BTB map if only one person gets to use it at a time anyway.
>
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> Teleporters should be used to get to the action faster. I don’t see why sprint is even better, one way is faster than the other. What else would the point be for sprint in BTB if it weren’t for getting from point a to point b? I’ve never encountered this happening myself but that seems more of an issue of the placement. Man cannons, I’ve never heard of anyone camping them. I think speed boosts were only in H2A.
>
> The issue with your stance on these three things is that they can be easily fixed. Instead of affecting the entire game for Big Team, settings and placements could be easily adjusted for movement to be faster, maps could also be built better (Containment, Zanzibar, Headlong) to encourage closer combat. You have to keep in mind H3 has a very low FOV, if it was at 90 we wouldn’t be having this discussion.
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>
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> > And yeah, I can see and agree regarding Halo 3’s BTB map selection and the fact that it plays slow… Don’t you think that might have been curtailed with sprint, at least to an extent? Camping was a big problem in Halo 3, but if you know someone’s camping then wouldn’t it help break a game like that open to be able to sprint at the campers? And/or to zigzag w/sprint if necessary during such combat? I’m not saying sprint definitely would have made Halo 3’s MP play faster, and we admittedly may never know anyway.
> >
> > But sprint does make close quarters weapons like the assault rifle and even equipment like plasma grenades more useful if you can just get up a little closer (a little faster) in order to deal with those campers. I dunno it’s just my opinion here regarding how much sprint may have changed Halo 3’s pace of combat and I realize you may not wholly agree… What do you think sprint would have done for Halo 3’s slower pace?
> >
> > Also thank you for providing statistics on viewers for HCS. That was enlightening- I thought it was more popular when I was watching.
>
>
> Not at all. The FOV, the BR spread, the netcode, the killtimes, all made it slow. Sprint wouldn’t help at all. Sprint would just lower the BMS and increase sprint speed, making combat even slower. I think it would make camping even worse. Sprinting has already been proven not to mean a game is fast (Quake, CE, Shadowrun).
>
> I think sprint would have break the game. Everything is too slow and sprint would be terrible with slow killtimes. The maps would have to be stretched out as well. H3 would be so much better with 90 FOV, better BR, better netcode, and no spread. Sprint is not necessary at all to make a fast game.
>
> No problem man. Just trying to clear up the misconception.

I don’t necessarily agree that sprint would have broken the game… I think it could have worked and that the pace of combat would have been faster. But to each their own- I can understand your argument. And I certainly don’t think sprint would have outright fixed any of those issues you mentioned, though I don’t agree that it would have been quite as detrimental as to have “broken,” the game (Though it would also depend on your definition of “broken,” too). Plus sprint wouldn’t have to be as fast it was in later Halo games, as such the maps wouldn’t necessarily need to be stretched out. Personally it would have made Halo 3 a lot more playable for me, at least. Either way it’s just a theoretical discussion as we’ll never really know; still it’s sometimes fun to think about what could have been.

Do you think the MLG Community would have needed to increase BMS by 10% if there was a “sprint,” button already that just increased BMS by 10-20%?

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> But A.) This variety’s always been in Halo, and B.) unpredictability is a bad thing, and doesn’t always equal “excitement”. If anything, it makes the game more stressful, because you know next to nothing about enemy movement or paths, since there are so many paths to take, and so many speeds and actions to travel across them with. Being killed because you couldn’t predict one of the six ways the enemy could come at you isn’t exciting. It’s annoying.

A) Sure, variety has always been there, but the number of things you can do has tripled since Halo CE so there’s now more variety. B) You want to play a game where the outcome is entirely predictable? It’s not exactly the game’s fault that you get irritated when you can’t picture exactly how your enemy is going to engage you. A predictable game is a dull game, so no, unpredictability is not a bad thing.

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> Assassinations - Don’t get what that has to do with abilities.
>
> Sprint - Okay? Your shields don’t recharge? And? Just run away. The maps are segmented enough to where being able to run is stupidly easy and you’re moving faster than your opponent who’s attacking you, so in order to follow you, they’d need to sprint as well, just resulting in cat and mouse gameplay. There’s no risk to that. It just slows down gameplay, while also messing with the pace of games in general.
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> Ground Pound - You’re exposed, sure, but you can also just quickly activate the ability and hit someone with your splash damage, without needing a direct hit. And because of the splash damage’s bleedthrough and your increased vulnerability to projectiles without shielding, you’re going to most likely die unless you have a good enough headstart before they hit you. Or a power weapon at that. It’s one of the better abilities, being solely offensive, but you should be vulnerable for slightly longer and the splash damage should be nowhere near as big as it is. Good idea, super generous ability.
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> Spartan Charge - Okay? The lunge and magnetism on the ability make it stupidly easy to abuse. You can sprint, charge, stunlock someone, and shoot them before they come out of the stunlock. It’s the worst offensive offender, because it literally rewards you for reckless plays. It’s not a good ability at all in its current implementation. The beta’s was, when you literally had no auto aim for the ability and would miss more often than you’d hit. And the hit was equal to a melee, not a melee and a little more via bleedthrough.
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> Smart Scope - What? Every scoping system in Halo did that to you.

I don’t expect that you read all the posts that were exchanged between me and tsassi, but I wasn’t describing Spartan Abilities only. I was discussing situational abilities in general, which assassinations would be included in. And regardless if the disadvantages to the listed abilities are substantial or minimal, they all have some type of disadvantage nevertheless. I wouldn’t say any of the abilities are abused, since ability kills count for such a small fraction of total overall kills. If one ability was truly being abused you’d be getting killed by it nonstop. And as a side note, you say there’s no risk to sprinting, yet you literally put your weapon down therefore sacrificing your ability to shoot at your enemy. That’s basically the biggest risk in the game.

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> > Walk, crouch, melee, shoot, and grenade do not have negatives because they are true basic functions. Thrust, clamber, and slide don’t have repercussions because ultimately they don’t impact much, as they are A) very quick movements and B) don’t impact the death of an enemy, unlike the other spartan abilities I listed. The only one that is questionable is slide since you can shoot while doing it. But you do have to be sprinting first, which does add the fact that you can’t recharge your shields or shoot until you’re actually on the ground sliding.
>
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> Sprint and thrust don’t impact much? What? They literally impact how the very game plays, now. They don’t impact the death of the enemy, but they sure impact your own, and can prevent you from dying in situations that you should die from. They make the game less punishing overall. And they yank control from the player as well. You can’t shoot when you sprint, thrust, or slide until the ability’s done.

I never said sprint doesn’t impact much, I know it does. It’s one of the most substantial abilities in the game.

Thrust, clamber, and slide are the 3 spartan abilities that are such quick animations that they rarely affect a final outcome. Yes, thrust can help you survive certain situations, but it doesn’t deserve a disadvantage because at its core it’s just a form of movement. Another form of movement that helps you dodge enemy attacks is strafing. Strafing doesn’t require a repercussion, and neither does thrust.

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> The negative outcomes are literally listed there. People escape situations they’d normally die in, or get kills they normally shouldn’t have, regardless of skill. I can’t begin to tell you how many times I’ve been randomly spartan charged by someone obviously new to the game, and they got the kill on me, because it left me one bullet away from death, to where I couldn’t do anything, and they could shoot me, before I could react. It’s super frustrating to be killed by in game cheese like that, when I’m outright better than someone, solely because of improperly balanced and unneeded mechanics.

“People escape situations they’d normally die in, or get kills they normally shouldn’t have, regardless of skill.” What is normal? Because if we’re treating Halo 5 as a unique title, which it is, then getting ability kills is normal.
And in regards to your Spartan Charge scenario, because all abilities are available to all players you can’t really complain about someone using one against you, especially if they’re using it as intended. They are not improperly balanced mechanics. You could use your radar and realize the enemy is close to you, you could thrust out of the way, you could fire at them as they’re charging you and kill them before they get the final shot off. If you didn’t see a spartan charging at you it’s not improperly balanced, that’s you not paying attention. And if they get the charge kill so be it, they’re playing the game too. They’re using in-game features as intended. I feel like the problem for you specifically is that you just have a problem with players interacting with you in general, because you don’t like when they’re unpredictable, you get frustrated when people kill you with legitimate use of in-game functions, and you seem to be expressing that people shouldn’t be able to kill you if they have less skill. Well see, a video game is supposed to appeal to everyone. So if a player with low skill kills you, that’s ok because they’re supposed to have fun too. If they’re new to the game and they like Spartan Charging then I see no reason to get mad at them for doing that. And if they keep trying to do it to you then just counter it.

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> > >
> > > My fault I thought I had found the post, but I discussed vehicles on the subsequent reply which I gave to you… This one before it was where I discussed why I feel that teleporters and man canons aren’t a substitute to sprint (Point #1 in the post).
> >
> >
> > No problem.
> >
> >
> > > 1) Vehicles did not make up for the extremely slow movement speed in Halo 3- not to mention there were never enough of them for everyone in a Big Team map. Teleporters and Man Canons are a slight reprieve to the problem but those are directional and only occasionally cover moving from point a to point b. Those aren’t going to make up for not being able to move around a map any faster- especially since people routinely camped on opposite ends of teleporters and man canons preventing them from being a valid alternative method of transportation to sprint. Speed boost power ups were also rare to find and temporary; leaving a big trail showing all the enemies you were using it and where you were going. Speed boosts can’t fix anything either; particularly on a BTB map if only one person gets to use it at a time anyway.
> >
> >
> > Teleporters should be used to get to the action faster. I don’t see why sprint is even better, one way is faster than the other. What else would the point be for sprint in BTB if it weren’t for getting from point a to point b? I’ve never encountered this happening myself but that seems more of an issue of the placement. Man cannons, I’ve never heard of anyone camping them. I think speed boosts were only in H2A.
> >
> > The issue with your stance on these three things is that they can be easily fixed. Instead of affecting the entire game for Big Team, settings and placements could be easily adjusted for movement to be faster, maps could also be built better (Containment, Zanzibar, Headlong) to encourage closer combat. You have to keep in mind H3 has a very low FOV, if it was at 90 we wouldn’t be having this discussion.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >
>
>
> Do you think the MLG Community would have needed to increase BMS by 10% if there was a “sprint,” button already that just increased BMS by 10-20%?

Yes, they would have. Sprint would have been removed.

This is the same case for Reach after the TU. Why did we remove all the abilities including sprint but make the BMS faster?

Because we didn’t want to damage the competitive integrity of the settings. If most of the competitive community had their way, I’d say sprint wouldn’t stand a chance in staying. There is absolutely no reason to separate movement and combat, something we have always been able to do. All sprint does is pander to casuals who think it somehow adds depth and “tactical” thinking, when all it does is make anything outside of movement sluggish. Sprint is more of a detriment to competitive gameplay, as it ruins a consistent pace, and forces you to put your gun down, and restricts you in a forward motion. It’s a text book example of a mechanic that serves no purpose other than to please #immersion and other fan bases.

I’d say H3 wouldn’t have done well at all either if it had sprint. The game was built off of the hype of CE and H2, widely praised for their multiplayers. Changing the gameplay is not how you keep fans, it’s how you lose them. The only reason H5 is doing well right now is because it’s doing some things right. Complete changes to franchises do not help at all (ex. Reach, “Halo” 4, GOW Judgement).

Sorry for the mistakes, I’m on mobile ATM.

> 2533274970658419;11178:
> > 2625759425619671;11176:
> > > 2533274970658419;11174:
> > > > 2625759425619671;11169:
> > > > > 2533274970658419;11167:
> > > > > > 2625759425619671;11166:
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > My fault I thought I had found the post, but I discussed vehicles on the subsequent reply which I gave to you… This one before it was where I discussed why I feel that teleporters and man canons aren’t a substitute to sprint (Point #1 in the post).
> > >
> > >
> > > No problem.
> > >
> > >
> > > > 1) Vehicles did not make up for the extremely slow movement speed in Halo 3- not to mention there were never enough of them for everyone in a Big Team map. Teleporters and Man Canons are a slight reprieve to the problem but those are directional and only occasionally cover moving from point a to point b. Those aren’t going to make up for not being able to move around a map any faster- especially since people routinely camped on opposite ends of teleporters and man canons preventing them from being a valid alternative method of transportation to sprint. Speed boost power ups were also rare to find and temporary; leaving a big trail showing all the enemies you were using it and where you were going. Speed boosts can’t fix anything either; particularly on a BTB map if only one person gets to use it at a time anyway.
> > >
> > >
> > > Teleporters should be used to get to the action faster. I don’t see why sprint is even better, one way is faster than the other. What else would the point be for sprint in BTB if it weren’t for getting from point a to point b? I’ve never encountered this happening myself but that seems more of an issue of the placement. Man cannons, I’ve never heard of anyone camping them. I think speed boosts were only in H2A.
> > >
> > > The issue with your stance on these three things is that they can be easily fixed. Instead of affecting the entire game for Big Team, settings and placements could be easily adjusted for movement to be faster, maps could also be built better (Containment, Zanzibar, Headlong) to encourage closer combat. You have to keep in mind H3 has a very low FOV, if it was at 90 we wouldn’t be having this discussion.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> >
> >
> > Do you think the MLG Community would have needed to increase BMS by 10% if there was a “sprint,” button already that just increased BMS by 10-20%?
>
>
> Yes, they would have. Sprint would have been removed.
>
> This is the same case for Reach after the TU. Why did we remove all the abilities including sprint but make the BMS faster?
>
> Because we didn’t want to damage the competitive integrity of the settings. If most of the competitive community had their way, I’d say sprint wouldn’t stand a chance in staying. There is absolutely no reason to separate movement and combat, something we have always been able to do. All sprint does is pander to casuals who think it somehow adds depth and “tactical” thinking, when all it does is make anything outside of movement sluggish. Sprint is more of a detriment to competitive gameplay, as it ruins a consistent pace, and forces you to put your gun down, and restricts you in a forward motion. It’s a text book example of a mechanic that serves no purpose other than to please #immersion and other fan bases.
>
> I’d say H3 wouldn’t have done well at all either if it had sprint. The game was built off of the hype of CE and H2, widely praised for their multiplayers. Changing the gameplay is not how you keep fans, it’s how you lose them. The only reason H5 is doing well right now is because it’s doing some things right. Complete changes to franchises do not help at all (ex. Reach, “Halo” 4, GOW Judgement).
>
> Sorry for the mistakes, I’m on mobile ATM.

?

Competitive scene has made a comeback but I’d hardly say halo 5 is doing well.

> 2533274970658419;11161:
> > 2533274903621546;11156:
> > we NEED sprint to be able to get out of harms way
>
>
> This is why we don’t take pro-sprinters seriously, SiN SHOOT2KILL.

Yeah so I thought about this… Obviously as you should know, the reason given for “needing sprint,” isn’t something I agree with but to each their own. But still, this is another player out there who feels that, “we NEED sprint.”

I’ve been very passionate about this discussion because I do feel that removing sprint would be terrible for Halo. As stated before, I feel that sales, population numbers, twitch viewers- all those things would plummet. Whether or not that’s what would happen, I can’t say for sure but I’ve also provided reasons why I think removing sprint would be bad for Halo, along with a ton of other reasons why sprint is good for Halo… And we’ve debated those points at length with each other.

And I have been asking people in my company and a ton of people that I play Warzone with over the past few weeks. Unanimously they all want sprint to stay and I’ve really spoken to a ton of people about it. Some of them feel as if they just “NEED it,” but not one person was against sprint… No one that I toss the idea of “what do you think about sprint?” has the slightest negative comment to say about it. However on the flip side, many shared my sentiments that if the next Halo doesn’t have sprint it will have less replay value.

That said, there isn’t a ton of things that 343i could do during the prelaunch phase of Halo 6 to kill the hype for me… “No sprint,” would be the only bad news that I think I could hear during the prelaunch cycle. I can’t think of any other “bad news,” that could come but if there would be any I’m positive that lterally the worst news that I could get would be to hear that sprint would be dropped from Halo.

Let me explain- I know for 100% certainty that I would not have made it to max rank on Halo 5 without sprint. Sprint has been such a welcomed addition to the franchise, I literally always chose to equip sprint as an AA during Reach (Both in campaign and in MP). I do expect to have it now because it helps shake up the monotony of having to walk around through large spaces on maps (yet I like bigger maps the best in MP). For me there would be no compromise to having sprint- removing it would quite literally destroy my favorite franchise. I have proposed compromises regarding having multiple playlists (some with and some without sprint) to accommodate anti sprinters but for them it appears this wouldn’t even be enough… Well I’m honestly about as “All or nothing,” as it gets to keeping sprint, or to at least avoid removing it altogether. I would likely still get the next Halo, if for nothing else to get all the achievements… But after that it would become the first Halo game that I would just sell back and never play again. And yet I still feel there are compromises out there- the next Halo game doesn’t have to completely drop sprint; as it could offer anti sprinters some game modes without sprint. At the very least 343i should try to assess how fans feel about sprint to try and cater to the majority on this issue before they even consider dropping it.

> 2535452250728209;11179:
> > 2533274970658419;11178:
> > > 2625759425619671;11176:
> > > > 2533274970658419;11174:
> > > > > 2625759425619671;11169:
> > > > > > 2533274970658419;11167:
> > > > > > > 2625759425619671;11166:
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > My fault I thought I had found the post, but I discussed vehicles on the subsequent reply which I gave to you… This one before it was where I discussed why I feel that teleporters and man canons aren’t a substitute to sprint (Point #1 in the post).
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > No problem.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > 1) Vehicles did not make up for the extremely slow movement speed in Halo 3- not to mention there were never enough of them for everyone in a Big Team map. Teleporters and Man Canons are a slight reprieve to the problem but those are directional and only occasionally cover moving from point a to point b. Those aren’t going to make up for not being able to move around a map any faster- especially since people routinely camped on opposite ends of teleporters and man canons preventing them from being a valid alternative method of transportation to sprint. Speed boost power ups were also rare to find and temporary; leaving a big trail showing all the enemies you were using it and where you were going. Speed boosts can’t fix anything either; particularly on a BTB map if only one person gets to use it at a time anyway.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Teleporters should be used to get to the action faster. I don’t see why sprint is even better, one way is faster than the other. What else would the point be for sprint in BTB if it weren’t for getting from point a to point b? I’ve never encountered this happening myself but that seems more of an issue of the placement. Man cannons, I’ve never heard of anyone camping them. I think speed boosts were only in H2A.
> > > >
> > > > The issue with your stance on these three things is that they can be easily fixed. Instead of affecting the entire game for Big Team, settings and placements could be easily adjusted for movement to be faster, maps could also be built better (Containment, Zanzibar, Headlong) to encourage closer combat. You have to keep in mind H3 has a very low FOV, if it was at 90 we wouldn’t be having this discussion.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Do you think the MLG Community would have needed to increase BMS by 10% if there was a “sprint,” button already that just increased BMS by 10-20%?
> >
> >
> > Yes, they would have. Sprint would have been removed.
> >
> > This is the same case for Reach after the TU. Why did we remove all the abilities including sprint but make the BMS faster?
> >
> > Because we didn’t want to damage the competitive integrity of the settings. If most of the competitive community had their way, I’d say sprint wouldn’t stand a chance in staying. There is absolutely no reason to separate movement and combat, something we have always been able to do. All sprint does is pander to casuals who think it somehow adds depth and “tactical” thinking, when all it does is make anything outside of movement sluggish. Sprint is more of a detriment to competitive gameplay, as it ruins a consistent pace, and forces you to put your gun down, and restricts you in a forward motion. It’s a text book example of a mechanic that serves no purpose other than to please #immersion and other fan bases.
> >
> > I’d say H3 wouldn’t have done well at all either if it had sprint. The game was built off of the hype of CE and H2, widely praised for their multiplayers. Changing the gameplay is not how you keep fans, it’s how you lose them. The only reason H5 is doing well right now is because it’s doing some things right. Complete changes to franchises do not help at all (ex. Reach, “Halo” 4, GOW Judgement).
> >
> > Sorry for the mistakes, I’m on mobile ATM.
>
>
> ?
>
> Competitive scene has made a comeback but I’d hardly say halo 5 is doing well.

That’s what I mean. It’s obviously doing better than Reach and 4.

Seriously… This is a discussion… Halo 5 has sprint. On warzone maps it’s necessary.

> 2533274970658419;11178:
> > 2625759425619671;11176:
> > > 2533274970658419;11174:
> > > > 2625759425619671;11169:
> > > > > 2533274970658419;11167:
> > > > > > 2625759425619671;11166:
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > My fault I thought I had found the post, but I discussed vehicles on the subsequent reply which I gave to you… This one before it was where I discussed why I feel that teleporters and man canons aren’t a substitute to sprint (Point #1 in the post).
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> >
> >
> > Do you think the MLG Community would have needed to increase BMS by 10% if there was a “sprint,” button already that just increased BMS by 10-20%?
>
>
> Yes, they would have. Sprint would have been removed.
>
> This is the same case for Reach after the TU. Why did we remove all the abilities including sprint but make the BMS faster?
>
> Because we didn’t want to damage the competitive integrity of the settings. If most of the competitive community had their way, I’d say sprint wouldn’t stand a chance in staying. There is absolutely no reason to separate movement and combat, something we have always been able to do. All sprint does is pander to casuals who think it somehow adds depth and “tactical” thinking, when all it does is make anything outside of movement sluggish. Sprint is more of a detriment to competitive gameplay, as it ruins a consistent pace, and forces you to put your gun down, and restricts you in a forward motion. It’s a text book example of a mechanic that serves no purpose other than to please #immersion and other fan bases.
>
> I’d say H3 wouldn’t have done well at all either if it had sprint. The game was built off of the hype of CE and H2, widely praised for their multiplayers. Changing the gameplay is not how you keep fans, it’s how you lose them. The only reason H5 is doing well right now is because it’s doing some things right. Complete changes to franchises do not help at all (ex. Reach, “Halo” 4, GOW Judgement).
>
> Sorry for the mistakes, I’m on mobile ATM.

Okay I understand your feelings against sprint but you can’t honestly claim that “sprint would have been removed,” even if you think it may have been. First of all the entire situation was hypothetical anyways so let’s not get too carried away here… But either way, permanent sprint wasn’t “removed,” in any other Halo so no reason to think it would have been removed in Halo 3 (even if they would have had the option to remove it). I didn’t suggest adding sprint as an AA like it was in Reach so I don’t think using that to claim “sprint would have been removed,” is really something you can definitively claim as fact here but I understand why you personally wouldn’t like it in that game. What we do know for sure is that the BMS had to be increased by 10% for the competitive community so it seems reasonable to assume that if there was a way to sprint 10-20% faster then there would have been no reason for them to adjust BMS at all.

I also think no sprint, “panders to casuals,” more so because it slows down the pace of play for everyone on the map. I’ve also provided numerous other reasons why I disagree when you said, “[it’s] mechanic that serves no purpose other than to please #immersion.” I’ve provided numerous reasons here in this thread to support why I think sprint serves so many more purposes than “#immersion,” so I couldn’t disagree with that sentiment any more.