The sprint discussion thread

Games Halo 5: Guardians
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> 2533274825830455;11041:
> Spartan Charge and Slide can be activated as soon as you’re up to sprint speed. So, when it comes to use of these abilities, the repercussions of sprint are minimal already. We’re talking about times below two seconds in which your shields won’t recharge and you can’t fire your weapon. If sprint was removed, well, first of all, there’s whole another dicsussion whether Spartan Charge and Slide are abilities worth keeping in the first place. But beyond that, there is nothing preventing the implementation of a delay on them. That is, they could easily be implemented in such a way that you need X seconds of running forward at full speed before you can use them. These abilities could hardly be abused then any more than they can with sprint. And as I already said, the delay is short enough that whether you can shoot or not within that time period is largely irrelevant in gameplay.

If the developers implemented your ideas listed above, I see why it would be reasonable to remove sprint at that point. But with how Spartan Charge and Slide are operating currently, sprint is necessary to prevent their abuse.

> 2533274825830455;11041:
> But then we come to the question whether it is a design choice that adds some nontrivial strategies or skills to the game?

Nontrivial as in valued and important? How is adding nontrivial functions into the game a bad thing? The developers are supposed to come up with new ideas and concepts for each new game, so they don’t just recycle the same features over and over. For 343 they decided on Spartan Abilities to add some new features to the game. Spartan Abilities are nontrivial, because they are significant in how Halo 5 functions.

I am not against the removal of sprint if they also incorporate the ideas you’ve suggested on the last couple of posts, but the whole reason why I’ve been defending it on this thread is because it has a purpose in Halo 5. The inclusion of sprint in this game revolves around so many other factors, like the various things we’ve discussed… Such as it’s impact on Spartan Abilities and how 343 envisioned its role in the game (ie. forcing players to run or gun, instead of both). It is not required for a successful Halo title, nor does it create a poor Halo title. Perhaps it’s not the most effective design overall but they made it work in Halo 5. They were going for change so it was a rational design choice to add it, but it may be the case that for the next Halo game that their design changes resulting in sprint’s removal.

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> > > > > > > > > > > > > I prey 343 comes to their senses in H6, and lets us shoot and throw grenades while sprinting.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > That wouldn’t really solve anything.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > It solves not being able to shoot and throw grenades while I run…
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > …which you’ve always been able to do
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > No, I’ve only been able to go at a walking pace. I need 2 different paces of shooting and running to be more effective.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Your misconception is that Spartans aren’t always running. In Halo 1-3 the base movement speed was running, and they could still shoot, throw nades, etc.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > There is running, walking, and dead sprint. I need all 3.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You don’t need all three. In fact, you contradicted your own statement saying you only needed two movement speeds. A fast base movement speed eliminates all need for the extra “speeds” because you are always moving fast, always ready to shoot, and it doesn’t ruin map design for Halo games. Because the faster the base movement speed the more variations you can move at without putting yourself in a non-combat ready situation.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I like having all 3. He was probably referring to “all 3,” as in the additional speed enhancers available in REQ upgrades. Either way it makes sense to me and there’s nothing contradictory there.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > False. He outlined what he meant. Don’t put words in other peoples mouths. Speaking strictly Arena here, Warzone can have sprint. Traditional 1v1/2v2/4v4/8v8 Halo does not need sprint, nor does it benefit from having it. If you want me reiterate my points for a third time I will, but you’ll ignore it again.
> > >
> > >
> > > Yikes, don’t shoot the messenger here- I’m just stating that what he said makes sense to me. No need to jump on me about it the argument you started with the guy. I certainly don’t intend to start another pointless argument with you about sprint because I already know where you’ll take it.
> >
> >
> > You mean into logical points that you never respond to and with a wave of a hand say “meh opinion” when the examples, barring population and lore, are all based on gameplay? If so yes, that is where I take it.
>
>
> You know what? If that’s how you paint the picture in your own mind and it helps you sleep at night then do you. I’ve gone back and forth with you but refusing to engage with you any further on the matter wasn’t a concession that you were right. It was a concession that all you want to do is assert your opinions as fact and keep cycling in a loop of heated “back and forth,” arguments based upon your opinions.

You asked for gameplay examples, and I gave them. You asked for facts on how sprint doesn’t belong in Halo, and I gave them. Stop shifting the goal posts and acting like your some authority on whether or not something is in fact a gameplay example. If you want I will even copy and past the exact points I made against sprint that you’ve ignored more than once. You’ve not once engaged in a ‘back and forth’ over gameplay examples. Cherry pick all the posts you want, but you’ve done nothing but refuse to actually give gameplay reasons as to why sprint should stay.

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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I prey 343 comes to their senses in H6, and lets us shoot and throw grenades while sprinting.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > That wouldn’t really solve anything.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > It solves not being able to shoot and throw grenades while I run…
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > …which you’ve always been able to do
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > No, I’ve only been able to go at a walking pace. I need 2 different paces of shooting and running to be more effective.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Your misconception is that Spartans aren’t always running. In Halo 1-3 the base movement speed was running, and they could still shoot, throw nades, etc.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > There is running, walking, and dead sprint. I need all 3.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You don’t need all three. In fact, you contradicted your own statement saying you only needed two movement speeds. A fast base movement speed eliminates all need for the extra “speeds” because you are always moving fast, always ready to shoot, and it doesn’t ruin map design for Halo games. Because the faster the base movement speed the more variations you can move at without putting yourself in a non-combat ready situation.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I like having all 3. He was probably referring to “all 3,” as in the additional speed enhancers available in REQ upgrades. Either way it makes sense to me and there’s nothing contradictory there.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > False. He outlined what he meant. Don’t put words in other peoples mouths. Speaking strictly Arena here, Warzone can have sprint. Traditional 1v1/2v2/4v4/8v8 Halo does not need sprint, nor does it benefit from having it. If you want me reiterate my points for a third time I will, but you’ll ignore it again.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Yikes, don’t shoot the messenger here- I’m just stating that what he said makes sense to me. No need to jump on me about it the argument you started with the guy. I certainly don’t intend to start another pointless argument with you about sprint because I already know where you’ll take it.
> > >
> > >
> > > You mean into logical points that you never respond to and with a wave of a hand say “meh opinion” when the examples, barring population and lore, are all based on gameplay? If so yes, that is where I take it.
> >
> >
> > You know what? If that’s how you paint the picture in your own mind and it helps you sleep at night then do you. I’ve gone back and forth with you but refusing to engage with you any further on the matter wasn’t a concession that you were right. It was a concession that all you want to do is assert your opinions as fact and keep cycling in a loop of heated “back and forth,” arguments based upon your opinions.
>
>
> You asked for gameplay examples, and I gave them. You asked for facts on how sprint doesn’t belong in Halo, and I gave them. Stop shifting the goal posts and acting like your some authority on whether or not something is in fact a gameplay example. If you want I will even copy and past the exact points I made against sprint that you’ve ignored more than once. You’ve not once egaged in a ‘back and forth’ over gameplay examples. Cherry pick all the posts you want, but you’ve done nothing but refuse to actually give gameplay reasons as to why sprint should stay.

I didn’t ask you for gameplay examples, you popped in out of nowhere to engage me in a heated argument about sprint. I responded to you back and forth for a while until I realized that you refuse to have an open mind on this issue at all. So once more- THAT isn’t productive and it accomplishes nothing. I’ve given gameplay examples… I’ve cited map-by-map in Halo 3 why not having sprint created an enormous problem in BTB during Halo 3 and why vehicles are not the answer to that. You met my immersion and lore points with pure opinion which is fine for people to have a dissenting opinion, but continuously arguing with you about them will get nowhere fast. You literally told Ben that he likes sprint because he isn’t “OG enough,” like you are. That was about enough for me to realize that debating with you wasn’t going to be a worthwhile endeavor.

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> > YOU stated that a 10% increase solved the problem of H3’s BMS yet in the next breath say sprint would have done it despite the next Halo game which had sprint got dropped by MLG and the competetive scene has been struggling ever since. You may or may not be trolling but ill say this you are inconsitent and contradict yourself far too often for your opinions to be taken seriously, which funnily enough is exactly whats happening.
>
>
> The HCS community has been enormously successful in Halo 5, there’s no evidence to support that Halo has been “struggling ever since,” in the competitive scene. There’s nothing contradictory in what I said- Halo 5 has sprint and the competitive community did not have to tweak the default settings to make the game even work in the competitive scene (like they did in Halo 3 when they had one BMS). There’s nothing inconsistent or contradictory about suggesting that the same issues that happened last time Halo had one BMS would just repeat themselves if Halo went back to one BMS.

See this post right here confirms you’ve got no clue what you are talking about they can’t tweak the default settings because 343 control the settings something the competetive and pro scene arent happy with the gane still doesn’t have lan support the scene is better that much is true but has been far from succesful outside of worlds. Theres still a lot of work to do from 343.

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> > > > > This is getting silly now, how would sprint have solved the problem of one BMS in Halo 3 when a 10% increase did the job for competetive and the following game that was dropped by MLG included sprint ?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I think we got trolled.
> > >
> > >
> > > Absolutely not. If anything you’re the one trolling people by asking for reasons why one BMS wouldn’t work just to flip around and complain about getting trolled when people actually give them to you.
> >
> >
> > You’re reasons don’t make any sense. Like literally no sense to the point where you have to be trolling. Especially considering the fact when people respond to your trolling you just ignore them. That’s trolling 101.
>
>
> They do make sense, just not to you or to people that don’t want to keep sprint. If your entire rationale and reason for being here is to continuously be against keeping sprint in Halo then it makes sense that you would see things differently. But it’s asinine for you to claim that they don’t make sense or to accuse me of trolling when you’re the one who asked to see “anything,” as to why one BMS wouldn’t work. You got your “anything,” that you asked for so again, it’s not my fault that those points didn’t enough sense to you. They obviously made enough sense for you to continuously reply over and over again with counter arguments before you just gave up and tried to accuse me of trolling instead so if reading is the crux of your problem once again then that isn’t my problem.

A lot of points that are for sprint makes sense, I just disagree with them. I’m open to debating. However your point about why BMS wouldn’t work because of what happened with h3 MLG literally makes no sense. Like, none. At all.

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> > > YOU stated that a 10% increase solved the problem of H3’s BMS yet in the next breath say sprint would have done it despite the next Halo game which had sprint got dropped by MLG and the competetive scene has been struggling ever since. You may or may not be trolling but ill say this you are inconsitent and contradict yourself far too often for your opinions to be taken seriously, which funnily enough is exactly whats happening.
> >
> >
> > The HCS community has been enormously successful in Halo 5, there’s no evidence to support that Halo has been “struggling ever since,” in the competitive scene. There’s nothing contradictory in what I said- Halo 5 has sprint and the competitive community did not have to tweak the default settings to make the game even work in the competitive scene (like they did in Halo 3 when they had one BMS). There’s nothing inconsistent or contradictory about suggesting that the same issues that happened last time Halo had one BMS would just repeat themselves if Halo went back to one BMS.
>
>
> See this post right here confirms you’ve got no clue what you are talking about they can’t tweak the default settings because 343 control the settings something the competetive and pro scene arent happy with the gane still doesn’t have lan support the scene is better that much is true but has been far from succesful outside of worlds. Theres still a lot of work to do from 343.

No clue what I’m talking about? That’s not even necessary and trollish behavior on your end.

There is no reason to tweak movement speeds in Halo 5 because players get multiple speeds to pick between. That’s got nothing to do with any work required from 343.

11090

> 2625759425619671;11077:
> > 2533274921982810;11076:
> > YOU stated that a 10% increase solved the problem of H3’s BMS yet in the next breath say sprint would have done it despite the next Halo game which had sprint got dropped by MLG and the competetive scene has been struggling ever since. You may or may not be trolling but ill say this you are inconsitent and contradict yourself far too often for your opinions to be taken seriously, which funnily enough is exactly whats happening.
>
>
> The HCS community has been enormously successful in Halo 5, there’s no evidence to support that Halo has been “struggling ever since,” in the competitive scene. There’s nothing contradictory in what I said- Halo 5 has sprint and the competitive community did not have to tweak the default settings to make the game even work in the competitive scene (like they did in Halo 3 when they had one BMS). There’s nothing inconsistent or contradictory about suggesting that the same issues that happened last time Halo had one BMS would just repeat themselves if Halo went back to one BMS.

Had nothing to do with its prize pool 343/MS started with half the Reqs, which I believe they said they would match at the release. Can correct me if you wish, nonetheless, it was still a large sum.

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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I prey 343 comes to their senses in H6, and lets us shoot and throw grenades while sprinting.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > That wouldn’t really solve anything.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > It solves not being able to shoot and throw grenades while I run…
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > …which you’ve always been able to do
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > No, I’ve only been able to go at a walking pace. I need 2 different paces of shooting and running to be more effective.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Your misconception is that Spartans aren’t always running. In Halo 1-3 the base movement speed was running, and they could still shoot, throw nades, etc.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > There is running, walking, and dead sprint. I need all 3.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > You don’t need all three. In fact, you contradicted your own statement saying you only needed two movement speeds. A fast base movement speed eliminates all need for the extra “speeds” because you are always moving fast, always ready to shoot, and it doesn’t ruin map design for Halo games. Because the faster the base movement speed the more variations you can move at without putting yourself in a non-combat ready situation.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I like having all 3. He was probably referring to “all 3,” as in the additional speed enhancers available in REQ upgrades. Either way it makes sense to me and there’s nothing contradictory there.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > False. He outlined what he meant. Don’t put words in other peoples mouths. Speaking strictly Arena here, Warzone can have sprint. Traditional 1v1/2v2/4v4/8v8 Halo does not need sprint, nor does it benefit from having it. If you want me reiterate my points for a third time I will, but you’ll ignore it again.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Yikes, don’t shoot the messenger here- I’m just stating that what he said makes sense to me. No need to jump on me about it the argument you started with the guy. I certainly don’t intend to start another pointless argument with you about sprint because I already know where you’ll take it.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > You mean into logical points that you never respond to and with a wave of a hand say “meh opinion” when the examples, barring population and lore, are all based on gameplay? If so yes, that is where I take it.
> > >
> > >
> > > You know what? If that’s how you paint the picture in your own mind and it helps you sleep at night then do you. I’ve gone back and forth with you but refusing to engage with you any further on the matter wasn’t a concession that you were right. It was a concession that all you want to do is assert your opinions as fact and keep cycling in a loop of heated “back and forth,” arguments based upon your opinions.
> >
> >
> > You asked for gameplay examples, and I gave them. You asked for facts on how sprint doesn’t belong in Halo, and I gave them. Stop shifting the goal posts and acting like your some authority on whether or not something is in fact a gameplay example. If you want I will even copy and past the exact points I made against sprint that you’ve ignored more than once. You’ve not once egaged in a ‘back and forth’ over gameplay examples. Cherry pick all the posts you want, but you’ve done nothing but refuse to actually give gameplay reasons as to why sprint should stay.
>
>
> I didn’t ask you for gameplay examples, you popped in out of nowhere to engage me in a heated argument about sprint. I responded to you back and forth for a while until I realized that you refuse to have an open mind on this issue at all. So once more- THAT isn’t productive and it accomplishes nothing. I’ve given gameplay examples… I’ve cited map-by-map in Halo 3 why not having sprint created an enormous problem in BTB during Halo 3 and by vehicles are not the answer to that. You met my immersion and lore points with pure opinion which is fine for people to have a dissenting opinion, but continuously arguing with you about them will get nowhere fast. You literally told Ben that he likes sprint because he isn’t “OG enough,” like you are. That was about enough for me to realize that debating with you wasn’t going to be a worthwhile endeavor.

You ignored every post I made with gameplay points. I can go on a map by map basis for every Halo game 1-3 and tell you why sprint is a bad idea for all these maps. Immersion isn’t brought about by shoe-horning something in. Immersion is opinion anyway. When I imagine a super soldier 500 years in the future I don’t get immersed by a soldier that can’t move at high speeds AND shoot. In fact, it’s not immersing that a TRAINED SOLDIER would LOWER their WEAPON in a COMBAT ZONE against other SUPER SOLDIERS. That’s how you get killed. I directly quoted you and gave you gameplay examples, and you never once touched base on them. You only talk about the ones that are actually opinion no matter how they are phrased which leads me to believe two things.

  1. You’re trolling.
  2. You don’t actually have gameplay reasons to keep sprint in.
11092

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> > > 2533274921982810;11076:
> > > YOU stated that a 10% increase solved the problem of H3’s BMS yet in the next breath say sprint would have done it despite the next Halo game which had sprint got dropped by MLG and the competetive scene has been struggling ever since. You may or may not be trolling but ill say this you are inconsitent and contradict yourself far too often for your opinions to be taken seriously, which funnily enough is exactly whats happening.
> >
> >
> > The HCS community has been enormously successful in Halo 5, there’s no evidence to support that Halo has been “struggling ever since,” in the competitive scene. There’s nothing contradictory in what I said- Halo 5 has sprint and the competitive community did not have to tweak the default settings to make the game even work in the competitive scene (like they did in Halo 3 when they had one BMS). There’s nothing inconsistent or contradictory about suggesting that the same issues that happened last time Halo had one BMS would just repeat themselves if Halo went back to one BMS.
>
>
> Had nothing to do with its prize pool 343/MS started with half the Reqs, which I believe they said they would match at the release. Can correct me if you wish, nonetheless, it was still a large sum.

MLG Dallas had a huge prize pool back in 2006 ($100,000 to the first place team). What’s your point?

Part of the reason that there is an increase in the prize pool is a attributed to the increase in popularity in the game itself; which means that sprint and all- Halo is increasing in popularity in the competitive scene. Another part of the reason is that 343i has been innovative enough to figure out a way to use in-game micro-transactions to help fund the HCS prize pools. Regardless as to how you feel about the micro-transactions, the point remains that the success that 343i accrued from people playing Halo 5 went directly into funding their HCS tournament prize pools.

Either way the “why,” behind the reason that Halo 5 has been successful in the competitive scene isn’t the issue. The issue is that MIGGY483 tried to assert that, “the competetive scene has been struggling ever since,” which is completely untrue! Halo 5 has been successful in the competitive scene with sprint and all.

11093

> 2625759425619671;11092:
> > 2533274819667356;11090:
> > > 2625759425619671;11077:
> > > > 2533274921982810;11076:
> > > > YOU stated that a 10% increase solved the problem of H3’s BMS yet in the next breath say sprint would have done it despite the next Halo game which had sprint got dropped by MLG and the competetive scene has been struggling ever since. You may or may not be trolling but ill say this you are inconsitent and contradict yourself far too often for your opinions to be taken seriously, which funnily enough is exactly whats happening.
> > >
> > >
> > > The HCS community has been enormously successful in Halo 5, there’s no evidence to support that Halo has been “struggling ever since,” in the competitive scene. There’s nothing contradictory in what I said- Halo 5 has sprint and the competitive community did not have to tweak the default settings to make the game even work in the competitive scene (like they did in Halo 3 when they had one BMS). There’s nothing inconsistent or contradictory about suggesting that the same issues that happened last time Halo had one BMS would just repeat themselves if Halo went back to one BMS.
> >
> >
> > Had nothing to do with its prize pool 343/MS started with half the Reqs, which I believe they said they would match at the release. Can correct me if you wish, nonetheless, it was still a large sum.
>
>
> MLG Dallas had a huge prize pool back in 2006 ($100,000 to the first place team). What’s your point?
>
> Part of the reason that there is an increase in the prize pool is a attributed to the increase in popularity in the game itself; which means that sprint and all- Halo is increasing in popularity in the competitive scene. Another part of the reason is that 343i has been innovative enough to figure out a way to use in-game micro-transactions to help fund the HCS prize pools. Regardless as to how you feel about the micro-transactions, the point remains that the success that 343i accrued from people playing Halo 5 went directly into funding their HCS tournament prize pools.
>
> Either way the “why,” behind the reason that Halo 5 has been successful in the competitive scene isn’t the issue. The issue is that MIGGY483 tried to assert that, “the competetive scene has been struggling ever since,” which is completely untrue! Halo 5 has been successful in the competitive scene with sprint and all.

If 24 team passes and only 4/8 of the top teams going is “successful” I’d hate to see failure. H3 events sold out in seconds. H5 struggles to get 25 teams.

11094

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> > 2533274921982810;11087:
> > > 2625759425619671;11077:
> > > > 2533274921982810;11076:
> > > > YOU stated that a 10% increase solved the problem of H3’s BMS yet in the next breath say sprint would have done it despite the next Halo game which had sprint got dropped by MLG and the competetive scene has been struggling ever since. You may or may not be trolling but ill say this you are inconsitent and contradict yourself far too often for your opinions to be taken seriously, which funnily enough is exactly whats happening.
> > >
> > >
> > > The HCS community has been enormously successful in Halo 5, there’s no evidence to support that Halo has been “struggling ever since,” in the competitive scene. There’s nothing contradictory in what I said- Halo 5 has sprint and the competitive community did not have to tweak the default settings to make the game even work in the competitive scene (like they did in Halo 3 when they had one BMS). There’s nothing inconsistent or contradictory about suggesting that the same issues that happened last time Halo had one BMS would just repeat themselves if Halo went back to one BMS.
> >
> >
> > See this post right here confirms you’ve got no clue what you are talking about they can’t tweak the default settings because 343 control the settings something the competetive and pro scene arent happy with the gane still doesn’t have lan support the scene is better that much is true but has been far from succesful outside of worlds. Theres still a lot of work to do from 343.
>
>
> No clue what I’m talking about? That’s not even necessary and trollish behavior on your end.
>
> There is no reason to tweak movement speeds in Halo 5 because players get multiple speeds to pick between. That’s got nothing to do with any work required from 343.

You could not be more wrong, currently the pros have no say over settings for competetive they arent being heard at all, something thats a very contentious issue amongst the pros and that community, also there is no -Yoinking!- lan support which creates a whole host of problems for non sanctioned HCS “lan” tournaments so please do youself a favour and and stop pretending like you have any clue about that community and what it wants from halo 5 and 343.

11095

> 2533274956198854;11091:
> > 2625759425619671;11086:
> > > 2533274956198854;11085:
> > > > 2625759425619671;11083:
> > > > > 2533274956198854;11082:
> > > > > > 2625759425619671;11081:
> > > > > > > 2533274956198854;11080:
> > > > > > > > 2625759425619671;11078:
> > > > > > > > > 2533274956198854;11075:
> > > > > > > > > > 2533274847473633;11053:
> > > > > > > > > > > 2533274956198854;10938:
> > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274847473633;10936:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274956198854;10933:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274847473633;10931:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2535450703392903;10928:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274847473633;10926:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I prey 343 comes to their senses in H6, and lets us shoot and throw grenades while sprinting.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That wouldn’t really solve anything.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > It solves not being able to shoot and throw grenades while I run…
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > …which you’ve always been able to do
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > No, I’ve only been able to go at a walking pace. I need 2 different paces of shooting and running to be more effective.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Your misconception is that Spartans aren’t always running. In Halo 1-3 the base movement speed was running, and they could still shoot, throw nades, etc.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > There is running, walking, and dead sprint. I need all 3.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > You don’t need all three. In fact, you contradicted your own statement saying you only needed two movement speeds. A fast base movement speed eliminates all need for the extra “speeds” because you are always moving fast, always ready to shoot, and it doesn’t ruin map design for Halo games. Because the faster the base movement speed the more variations you can move at without putting yourself in a non-combat ready situation.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I like having all 3. He was probably referring to “all 3,” as in the additional speed enhancers available in REQ upgrades. Either way it makes sense to me and there’s nothing contradictory there.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > False. He outlined what he meant. Don’t put words in other peoples mouths. Speaking strictly Arena here, Warzone can have sprint. Traditional 1v1/2v2/4v4/8v8 Halo does not need sprint, nor does it benefit from having it. If you want me reiterate my points for a third time I will, but you’ll ignore it again.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yikes, don’t shoot the messenger here- I’m just stating that what he said makes sense to me. No need to jump on me about it the argument you started with the guy. I certainly don’t intend to start another pointless argument with you about sprint because I already know where you’ll take it.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > You mean into logical points that you never respond to and with a wave of a hand say “meh opinion” when the examples, barring population and lore, are all based on gameplay? If so yes, that is where I take it.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > You know what? If that’s how you paint the picture in your own mind and it helps you sleep at night then do you. I’ve gone back and forth with you but refusing to engage with you any further on the matter wasn’t a concession that you were right. It was a concession that all you want to do is assert your opinions as fact and keep cycling in a loop of heated “back and forth,” arguments based upon your opinions.
> > >
> > >
> > > You asked for gameplay examples, and I gave them. You asked for facts on how sprint doesn’t belong in Halo, and I gave them. Stop shifting the goal posts and acting like your some authority on whether or not something is in fact a gameplay example. If you want I will even copy and past the exact points I made against sprint that you’ve ignored more than once. You’ve not once egaged in a ‘back and forth’ over gameplay examples. Cherry pick all the posts you want, but you’ve done nothing but refuse to actually give gameplay reasons as to why sprint should stay.
> >
> >
> > I didn’t ask you for gameplay examples, you popped in out of nowhere to engage me in a heated argument about sprint. I responded to you back and forth for a while until I realized that you refuse to have an open mind on this issue at all. So once more- THAT isn’t productive and it accomplishes nothing. I’ve given gameplay examples… I’ve cited map-by-map in Halo 3 why not having sprint created an enormous problem in BTB during Halo 3 and by vehicles are not the answer to that. You met my immersion and lore points with pure opinion which is fine for people to have a dissenting opinion, but continuously arguing with you about them will get nowhere fast. You literally told Ben that he likes sprint because he isn’t “OG enough,” like you are. That was about enough for me to realize that debating with you wasn’t going to be a worthwhile endeavor.
>
>
> You ignored every post I made with gameplay points. I can go on a map by map basis for every Halo game 1-3 and tell you why sprint is a bad idea for all these maps. Immersion isn’t brought about by shoe-horning something in. Immersion is opinion anyway. When I imagine a super soldier 500 years in the future I don’t get immersed by a soldier that can’t move at high speeds AND shoot. In fact, it’s not immersing that a TRAINED SOLDIER would LOWER their WEAPON in a COMBAT ZONE against other SUPER SOLDIERS. That’s how you get killed. I directly quoted you and gave you gameplay examples, and you never once touched base on them. You only talk about the ones that are actually opinion no matter how they are phrased which leads me to believe two things.
> 1. You’re trolling.
> 2. You don’t actually have gameplay reasons to keep sprint in.

No way I “ignored every post,” from you. I didn’t ignore your every post at all- we went back and forth for a long time JUST like you’re doing right now. Don’t try to play the, “you’re trolling card,” on me when you told Ben that he only likes sprint because he isn’t, “OG enough,” as you are. It’s totally feasible that a soldier would lower their weapon when entering a dead sprint… Have you ever tried to run with a rifle? Guess what? You cannot run/shoot at the same time- there’s a reason why the military teaches people (and the NRA echoes) the four fundamentals of marksmanship- 1) Steady Position, 2) Aiming, 3) Breath Control, and 4) Trigger Squeeze. You cannot properly execute any of those fundamentals when sprinting (no matter how “super,” you might be)- and the Spartans were trained to shoot without the Mjolnir armor anyway. Your shot misses where you intend to shoot it when you try to shoot when sprinting. That’s why the military teaches people to run, drop, then shoot to provide cover. Again, no shooting while running- you’d probably just frag your own people in the back by trying to do something like that. That’s not to say that Halo has to echo combat in real life- but for the umpteenth time- sprinting without shooting is completely realistic. Plus as I’ve stated to you in the past, 343i’s Executive Producer has already stated that they carefully balanced sprint to enhance competitive multiplayer. Point is that if they decided that sprint/no shoot helps balance gameplay then so be it- the result did help balance competitive gameplay in Halo 5… Furthermore this is another reason why Halo isn’t like CoD- they have sprint/shoot in CoD and the combat isn’t as balanced.

11096

> 2533274921982810;11094:
> > 2625759425619671;11089:
> > > 2533274921982810;11087:
> > > > 2625759425619671;11077:
> > > > > 2533274921982810;11076:
> > > > > YOU stated that a 10% increase solved the problem of H3’s BMS yet in the next breath say sprint would have done it despite the next Halo game which had sprint got dropped by MLG and the competetive scene has been struggling ever since. You may or may not be trolling but ill say this you are inconsitent and contradict yourself far too often for your opinions to be taken seriously, which funnily enough is exactly whats happening.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The HCS community has been enormously successful in Halo 5, there’s no evidence to support that Halo has been “struggling ever since,” in the competitive scene. There’s nothing contradictory in what I said- Halo 5 has sprint and the competitive community did not have to tweak the default settings to make the game even work in the competitive scene (like they did in Halo 3 when they had one BMS). There’s nothing inconsistent or contradictory about suggesting that the same issues that happened last time Halo had one BMS would just repeat themselves if Halo went back to one BMS.
> > >
> > >
> > > See this post right here confirms you’ve got no clue what you are talking about they can’t tweak the default settings because 343 control the settings something the competetive and pro scene arent happy with the gane still doesn’t have lan support the scene is better that much is true but has been far from succesful outside of worlds. Theres still a lot of work to do from 343.
> >
> >
> > No clue what I’m talking about? That’s not even necessary and trollish behavior on your end.
> >
> > There is no reason to tweak movement speeds in Halo 5 because players get multiple speeds to pick between. That’s got nothing to do with any work required from 343.
>
>
> You could not be more wrong, currently the pros have no say over settings for competetive they arent being heard at all, something thats a very contentious issue amongst the pros and that community, also there is no -Yoinking!- lan support which creates a whole host of problems for non sanctioned HCS “lan” tournaments so please do youself a favour and and stop pretending like you have any clue about that community and what it wants from halo 5 and 343.

Lan issues are not equal or even related to movement settings. Could you stop trying to discredit me with your irrelevant points when you tell me that I “have [no] clue about that community”? I’ve stated that the HCS pro scene has been very successful in Halo 5- pro players did not have to adjust Halo 5’s movement speed like they did in Halo 3 to accommodate because they have sprint in Halo 5 which gives them a choice to move at different speeds.

11097

> 2625759425619671;11095:
> > 2533274956198854;11091:
> > > 2625759425619671;11086:
> > > > 2533274956198854;11085:
> > > > > 2625759425619671;11083:
> > > > > > 2533274956198854;11082:
> > > > > > > 2625759425619671;11081:
> > > > > > > > 2533274956198854;11080:
> > > > > > > > > 2625759425619671;11078:
> > > > > > > > > > 2533274956198854;11075:
> > > > > > > > > > > 2533274847473633;11053:
> > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274956198854;10938:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274847473633;10936:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274956198854;10933:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274847473633;10931:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2535450703392903;10928:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274847473633;10926:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I prey 343 comes to their senses in H6, and lets us shoot and throw grenades while sprinting.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That wouldn’t really solve anything.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It solves not being able to shoot and throw grenades while I run…
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > …which you’ve always been able to do
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > No, I’ve only been able to go at a walking pace. I need 2 different paces of shooting and running to be more effective.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Your misconception is that Spartans aren’t always running. In Halo 1-3 the base movement speed was running, and they could still shoot, throw nades, etc.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > There is running, walking, and dead sprint. I need all 3.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > You don’t need all three. In fact, you contradicted your own statement saying you only needed two movement speeds. A fast base movement speed eliminates all need for the extra “speeds” because you are always moving fast, always ready to shoot, and it doesn’t ruin map design for Halo games. Because the faster the base movement speed the more variations you can move at without putting yourself in a non-combat ready situation.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I like having all 3. He was probably referring to “all 3,” as in the additional speed enhancers available in REQ upgrades. Either way it makes sense to me and there’s nothing contradictory there.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > False. He outlined what he meant. Don’t put words in other peoples mouths. Speaking strictly Arena here, Warzone can have sprint. Traditional 1v1/2v2/4v4/8v8 Halo does not need sprint, nor does it benefit from having it. If you want me reiterate my points for a third time I will, but you’ll ignore it again.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Yikes, don’t shoot the messenger here- I’m just stating that what he said makes sense to me. No need to jump on me about it the argument you started with the guy. I certainly don’t intend to start another pointless argument with you about sprint because I already know where you’ll take it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You mean into logical points that you never respond to and with a wave of a hand say “meh opinion” when the examples, barring population and lore, are all based on gameplay? If so yes, that is where I take it.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > You know what? If that’s how you paint the picture in your own mind and it helps you sleep at night then do you. I’ve gone back and forth with you but refusing to engage with you any further on the matter wasn’t a concession that you were right. It was a concession that all you want to do is assert your opinions as fact and keep cycling in a loop of heated “back and forth,” arguments based upon your opinions.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > You asked for gameplay examples, and I gave them. You asked for facts on how sprint doesn’t belong in Halo, and I gave them. Stop shifting the goal posts and acting like your some authority on whether or not something is in fact a gameplay example. If you want I will even copy and past the exact points I made against sprint that you’ve ignored more than once. You’ve not once egaged in a ‘back and forth’ over gameplay examples. Cherry pick all the posts you want, but you’ve done nothing but refuse to actually give gameplay reasons as to why sprint should stay.
> > >
> > >
> > > I didn’t ask you for gameplay examples, you popped in out of nowhere to engage me in a heated argument about sprint. I responded to you back and forth for a while until I realized that you refuse to have an open mind on this issue at all. So once more- THAT isn’t productive and it accomplishes nothing. I’ve given gameplay examples… I’ve cited map-by-map in Halo 3 why not having sprint created an enormous problem in BTB during Halo 3 and by vehicles are not the answer to that. You met my immersion and lore points with pure opinion which is fine for people to have a dissenting opinion, but continuously arguing with you about them will get nowhere fast. You literally told Ben that he likes sprint because he isn’t “OG enough,” like you are. That was about enough for me to realize that debating with you wasn’t going to be a worthwhile endeavor.
> >
> >
> > You ignored every post I made with gameplay points. I can go on a map by map basis for every Halo game 1-3 and tell you why sprint is a bad idea for all these maps. Immersion isn’t brought about by shoe-horning something in. Immersion is opinion anyway. When I imagine a super soldier 500 years in the future I don’t get immersed by a soldier that can’t move at high speeds AND shoot. In fact, it’s not immersing that a TRAINED SOLDIER would LOWER their WEAPON in a COMBAT ZONE against other SUPER SOLDIERS. That’s how you get killed. I directly quoted you and gave you gameplay examples, and you never once touched base on them. You only talk about the ones that are actually opinion no matter how they are phrased which leads me to believe two things.
> > 1. You’re trolling.
> > 2. You don’t actually have gameplay reasons to keep sprint in.
>
>
> No way I didn’t ignore your every post- we went back and forth for a long time JUST like you’re doing right now. Don’t try to play the, “you’re trolling card,” on me when you told Ben that he only likes sprint because he isn’t, “OG enough,” as you are. It’s totally feasible that a soldier would lower their weapon when entering a dead sprint… Have you ever tried to run with a rifle? Guess what? You cannot run/shoot at the same time- there’s a reason why the military teaches people (and the NRA echoes) the four fundamentals of marksmanship- 1) Steady Position, 2) Aiming, 3) Breath Control, and 4) Trigger Squeeze. You cannot properly execute any of those fundamentals when sprinting (no matter how “super,” you might be)- and the Spartans were trained to shoot without the Mjolnir armor anyway. Your shot misses where you intend to shoot it when you try to shoot when sprinting. That’s why the military teaches people to run, drop, then shoot to provide cover. Again, no shooting while running- you’d probably just frag your own people in the back by trying to do something like that. That’s not to say that Halo has to echo combat in real life- but for the umpteenth time- sprinting without shooting is completely realistic. Plus as I’ve stated to you in the past, 343i’s Executive Producer has already stated that they carefully balanced sprint to enhance competitive multiplayer. Point is that if they decided that sprint/no shoot helps balance gameplay then so be it- the result did help balance competitive gameplay in Halo 5… This is another reason why Halo isn’t like CoD- they have sprint/shoot in CoD and the combat isn’t as balanced.

Except Spartans in the lore are accurate while running and shooting. In fact, they do it all the time in the Multi-player anyway. Halo is not realistic. Once again, Halo is not realistic. The ‘balances’ for sprint are band-aid fixes that do nothing to mitigate the problems it causes. You really need to stop the Cod/Halo dissimilarity argument because there are a lot of similarities that weren’t there before Reach - 5. Like I said, I’ll post the points you glossed over that I responded to that YOU posted for EVERYONE to respond to just so that once again, you can choose to not see them.

11098

> 2625759425619671;11095:
> > 2533274956198854;11091:
> > > 2625759425619671;11086:
> > > > 2533274956198854;11085:
> > > > > 2625759425619671;11083:
> > > > > > 2533274956198854;11082:
> > > > > > > 2625759425619671;11081:
> > > > > > > > 2533274956198854;11080:
> > > > > > > > > 2625759425619671;11078:
> > > > > > > > > > 2533274956198854;11075:
> > > > > > > > > > > 2533274847473633;11053:
> > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274956198854;10938:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274847473633;10936:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274956198854;10933:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274847473633;10931:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2535450703392903;10928:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274847473633;10926:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I prey 343 comes to their senses in H6, and lets us shoot and throw grenades while sprinting.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That wouldn’t really solve anything.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It solves not being able to shoot and throw grenades while I run…
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > …which you’ve always been able to do
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > No, I’ve only been able to go at a walking pace. I need 2 different paces of shooting and running to be more effective.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Your misconception is that Spartans aren’t always running. In Halo 1-3 the base movement speed was running, and they could still shoot, throw nades, etc.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > There is running, walking, and dead sprint. I need all 3.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > You don’t need all three. In fact, you contradicted your own statement saying you only needed two movement speeds. A fast base movement speed eliminates all need for the extra “speeds” because you are always moving fast, always ready to shoot, and it doesn’t ruin map design for Halo games. Because the faster the base movement speed the more variations you can move at without putting yourself in a non-combat ready situation.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I like having all 3. He was probably referring to “all 3,” as in the additional speed enhancers available in REQ upgrades. Either way it makes sense to me and there’s nothing contradictory there.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > False. He outlined what he meant. Don’t put words in other peoples mouths. Speaking strictly Arena here, Warzone can have sprint. Traditional 1v1/2v2/4v4/8v8 Halo does not need sprint, nor does it benefit from having it. If you want me reiterate my points for a third time I will, but you’ll ignore it again.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Yikes, don’t shoot the messenger here- I’m just stating that what he said makes sense to me. No need to jump on me about it the argument you started with the guy. I certainly don’t intend to start another pointless argument with you about sprint because I already know where you’ll take it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You mean into logical points that you never respond to and with a wave of a hand say “meh opinion” when the examples, barring population and lore, are all based on gameplay? If so yes, that is where I take it.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > You know what? If that’s how you paint the picture in your own mind and it helps you sleep at night then do you. I’ve gone back and forth with you but refusing to engage with you any further on the matter wasn’t a concession that you were right. It was a concession that all you want to do is assert your opinions as fact and keep cycling in a loop of heated “back and forth,” arguments based upon your opinions.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > You asked for gameplay examples, and I gave them. You asked for facts on how sprint doesn’t belong in Halo, and I gave them. Stop shifting the goal posts and acting like your some authority on whether or not something is in fact a gameplay example. If you want I will even copy and past the exact points I made against sprint that you’ve ignored more than once. You’ve not once egaged in a ‘back and forth’ over gameplay examples. Cherry pick all the posts you want, but you’ve done nothing but refuse to actually give gameplay reasons as to why sprint should stay.
> > >
> > >
> > > I didn’t ask you for gameplay examples, you popped in out of nowhere to engage me in a heated argument about sprint. I responded to you back and forth for a while until I realized that you refuse to have an open mind on this issue at all. So once more- THAT isn’t productive and it accomplishes nothing. I’ve given gameplay examples… I’ve cited map-by-map in Halo 3 why not having sprint created an enormous problem in BTB during Halo 3 and by vehicles are not the answer to that. You met my immersion and lore points with pure opinion which is fine for people to have a dissenting opinion, but continuously arguing with you about them will get nowhere fast. You literally told Ben that he likes sprint because he isn’t “OG enough,” like you are. That was about enough for me to realize that debating with you wasn’t going to be a worthwhile endeavor.
> >
> >
> > You ignored every post I made with gameplay points. I can go on a map by map basis for every Halo game 1-3 and tell you why sprint is a bad idea for all these maps. Immersion isn’t brought about by shoe-horning something in. Immersion is opinion anyway. When I imagine a super soldier 500 years in the future I don’t get immersed by a soldier that can’t move at high speeds AND shoot. In fact, it’s not immersing that a TRAINED SOLDIER would LOWER their WEAPON in a COMBAT ZONE against other SUPER SOLDIERS. That’s how you get killed. I directly quoted you and gave you gameplay examples, and you never once touched base on them. You only talk about the ones that are actually opinion no matter how they are phrased which leads me to believe two things.
> > 1. You’re trolling.
> > 2. You don’t actually have gameplay reasons to keep sprint in.
>
>
> No way I “ignored every post,” from you. I didn’t ignore your every post at all- we went back and forth for a long time JUST like you’re doing right now. Don’t try to play the, “you’re trolling card,” on me when you told Ben that he only likes sprint because he isn’t, “OG enough,” as you are. It’s totally feasible that a soldier would lower their weapon when entering a dead sprint… Have you ever tried to run with a rifle? Guess what? You cannot run/shoot at the same time- there’s a reason why the military teaches people (and the NRA echoes) the four fundamentals of marksmanship- 1) Steady Position, 2) Aiming, 3) Breath Control, and 4) Trigger Squeeze. You cannot properly execute any of those fundamentals when sprinting (no matter how “super,” you might be)- and the Spartans were trained to shoot without the Mjolnir armor anyway. Your shot misses where you intend to shoot it when you try to shoot when sprinting. That’s why the military teaches people to run, drop, then shoot to provide cover. Again, no shooting while running- you’d probably just frag your own people in the back by trying to do something like that. That’s not to say that Halo has to echo combat in real life- but for the umpteenth time- sprinting without shooting is completely realistic. Plus as I’ve stated to you in the past, 343i’s Executive Producer has already stated that they carefully balanced sprint to enhance competitive multiplayer. Point is that if they decided that sprint/no shoot helps balance gameplay then so be it- the result did help balance competitive gameplay in Halo 5… This is another reason why Halo isn’t like CoD- they have sprint/shoot in CoD and the combat isn’t as balanced.

The lore states that spartans can accurately fire weapons while moving at a speed which is much faster than the speed at which we sprint in game. high BMS fits the lore. Sprint does not fit the lore. Why are we sprinting in game at a speed that is a fraction of what spartans are supposed to sprint at? Why are we lowering our weapons when the lore says we should be able to move and shoot at this speed?

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> If the developers implemented your ideas listed above, I see why it would be reasonable to remove sprint at that point. But with how Spartan Charge and Slide are operating currently, sprint is necessary to prevent their abuse.

But any request to remove sprint always contains the assumption that gameplay would be adapted to this in the best way possible. Nobody really expects sprint to be removed from Halo 5. All this discussion is always about what Halo could be in the future.

> 2533274990620516;11084:
> Nontrivial as in valued and important? How is adding nontrivial functions into the game a bad thing? The developers are supposed to come up with new ideas and concepts for each new game, so they don’t just recycle the same features over and over. For 343 they decided on Spartan Abilities to add some new features to the game. Spartan Abilities are nontrivial, because they are significant in how Halo 5 functions.

Nontrivial as in not completely obvious or childishly easy. And no, nontrivial things are good. We want nontrivial choices. I was merely making a reference to the age old question: what does sprint add to the game that I should care about.

> 2533274990620516;11084:
> I am not against the removal of sprint if they also incorporate the ideas you’ve suggested on the last couple of posts, but the whole reason why I’ve been defending it on this thread is because it has a purpose in Halo 5. The inclusion of sprint in this game revolves around so many other factors, like the various things we’ve discussed… Such as it’s impact on Spartan Abilities and how 343 envisioned its role in the game (ie. forcing players to run or gun, instead of both). It is not required for a successful Halo title, nor does it create a poor Halo title. Perhaps it’s not the most effective design overall but they made it work in Halo 5. They were going for change so it was a rational design choice to add it, but it may be the case that for the next Halo game that their design changes resulting in sprint’s removal.

Fair enough. I can’t ask more from you than to be open minded towards change.

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> > 2533274819667356;11090:
> > > 2625759425619671;11077:
> > > > 2533274921982810;11076:
> > > > YOU stated that a 10% increase solved the problem of H3’s BMS yet in the next breath say sprint would have done it despite the next Halo game which had sprint got dropped by MLG and the competetive scene has been struggling ever since. You may or may not be trolling but ill say this you are inconsitent and contradict yourself far too often for your opinions to be taken seriously, which funnily enough is exactly whats happening.
> > >
> > >
> > > The HCS community has been enormously successful in Halo 5, there’s no evidence to support that Halo has been “struggling ever since,” in the competitive scene. There’s nothing contradictory in what I said- Halo 5 has sprint and the competitive community did not have to tweak the default settings to make the game even work in the competitive scene (like they did in Halo 3 when they had one BMS). There’s nothing inconsistent or contradictory about suggesting that the same issues that happened last time Halo had one BMS would just repeat themselves if Halo went back to one BMS.
> >
> >
> > Had nothing to do with its prize pool 343/MS started with half the Reqs, which I believe they said they would match at the release. Can correct me if you wish, nonetheless, it was still a large sum.
>
>
> MLG Dallas had a huge prize pool back in 2006 ($100,000 to the first place team). What’s your point?
>
> Part of the reason that there is an increase in the prize pool is a attributed to the increase in popularity in the game itself; which means that sprint and all- Halo is increasing in popularity in the competitive scene. Another part of the reason is that 343i has been innovative enough to figure out a way to use in-game micro-transactions to help fund the HCS prize pools. Regardless as to how you feel about the micro-transactions, the point remains that the success that 343i accrued from people playing Halo 5 went directly into funding their HCS tournament prize pools.
>
> Either way the “why,” behind the reason that Halo 5 has been successful in the competitive scene isn’t the issue. The issue is that MIGGY483 tried to assert that, “the competetive scene has been struggling ever since,” which is completely untrue! Halo 5 has been successful in the competitive scene with sprint and all.

Micro-transactions ruin games, there is nothing innovative about it, just pure greed. So you are saying a Generic Halo is better. I guess at least Battlefield comes out next week. Hopefully I can still earn -Yoink- and unlock them on it. Bad enough I have to use earned coins on Gears 4 to gamble with boxes. Can’t even believe what Devs say before release.

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> > 2533274921982810;11094:
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> > > > 2533274921982810;11087:
> > > > > 2625759425619671;11077:
> > > > > > 2533274921982810;11076:
> > > > > > YOU stated that a 10% increase solved the problem of H3’s BMS yet in the next breath say sprint would have done it despite the next Halo game which had sprint got dropped by MLG and the competetive scene has been struggling ever since. You may or may not be trolling but ill say this you are inconsitent and contradict yourself far too often for your opinions to be taken seriously, which funnily enough is exactly whats happening.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > The HCS community has been enormously successful in Halo 5, there’s no evidence to support that Halo has been “struggling ever since,” in the competitive scene. There’s nothing contradictory in what I said- Halo 5 has sprint and the competitive community did not have to tweak the default settings to make the game even work in the competitive scene (like they did in Halo 3 when they had one BMS). There’s nothing inconsistent or contradictory about suggesting that the same issues that happened last time Halo had one BMS would just repeat themselves if Halo went back to one BMS.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > See this post right here confirms you’ve got no clue what you are talking about they can’t tweak the default settings because 343 control the settings something the competetive and pro scene arent happy with the gane still doesn’t have lan support the scene is better that much is true but has been far from succesful outside of worlds. Theres still a lot of work to do from 343.
> > >
> > >
> > > No clue what I’m talking about? That’s not even necessary and trollish behavior on your end.
> > >
> > > There is no reason to tweak movement speeds in Halo 5 because players get multiple speeds to pick between. That’s got nothing to do with any work required from 343.
> >
> >
> > You could not be more wrong, currently the pros have no say over settings for competetive they arent being heard at all, something thats a very contentious issue amongst the pros and that community, also there is no -Yoinking!- lan support which creates a whole host of problems for non sanctioned HCS “lan” tournaments so please do youself a favour and and stop pretending like you have any clue about that community and what it wants from halo 5 and 343.
>
>
> Lan issues are not equal or even related to movement settings. Could you stop trying to discredit me with your irrelevant points when you tell me that I “have [no] clue about that community”? I’ve stated that the HCS pro scene has been very successful in Halo 5- pro players did not have to adjust Halo 5’s movement speed like they did in Halo 3 to accommodate because they have sprint in Halo 5 which gives them a choice to move at different speeds.

The community has no say in competitve settings for h5. There is still radar ffs.

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> > > >
> >
> >
> > 3) I also liked the spawn system in CE… I liked 2’s even better and I agree that memorizing spawns was a difficult craft to master. I still think that sprint helps break up the unfair advantage of such memorization- it’s like counting cards in Vegas…
> >
> > 4) I agree that CE had the fastest MP between 1, 2, and 3 but definitely not when compared to Reach, 4, or 5. Not having sprint was always slower in Halo- maybe strafing was easier to do so if you think that made things faster then that’s your opinion… Strafing was nowhere near as fast as sprint+thrust in Halo 5, just saying. And I challenge anyone to start an equal distance apart on CE with load out weapons on a large map and walk across it to meet up with an enemy player… Then do the same thing on the same re-made map on Reach or 4 or an equivalent distance on a large Halo 5 map and try sprinting to meet up with your opponents…
> >
> > 5) Well if you really care less what your fellow fans want then why even debate with me in the first place? Thankfully you don’t run 343i because they do care about fan feedback as demonstrated by the Halo Community Feedback (HCF) program and multiple open betas before they finish games. Fortunately for the majority, they will actually listen to them and implement changes based upon fan feedback whether you like that concept or not. Hey, Halo games don’t cater to everything I want either but I understand how fan feedback works…
> >
> > 6) Increasing BMS is not the answer for a multitude of reasons I’ve discussed several times before. The result is still one boring speed no matter what you set it to… And you can’t have it set to sprint-like speeds anyway so all the restrictions that come with removing sprint still stand anyway you cut it when you talk about removing it.
> >
> > 7) The main problem with Halo 3 in the competitive community was the movement speed. It took them a long time to fix this and agree upon a new base movement speed as a result which led to a LOT OF TIME where Halo 3 was viewed as not being competitive enough… Eventually yes, the MLG community adapted and figured it out- they had to take matters into their own hands by increasing the base movement speed to make the game more competitive. This was a huge problem and it took a very, very long time for the MLG community to decide and actually universally agree upon 10% faster base movement speed in order to compensate for Halo 3’s default BMS being too slow. The truth is that removing sprint would create the base movement speed problem all over again, resulting in another crisis for the pro community just like not having sprint did during the Halo 3 days.
>
>
> I’m gonna leave parts 1 & 2 alone, because I feel like we mostly agree there.
>
> 3)The CE spawn system not only had those forsed spawns, but it also had that RNG element with the random spawns. They weren’t random in the same way that sprint is random, because there were only so many spawn points on the maps, but it took skill to predict map flow. The RNG element of sprint is bad because like I said, we don’t want to flip a coin in a competitive game. Because random=Less skillful gameplay.
>
> 4)But the CE maps were super small. Chill Out, Hang 'em, Priz, Derelict and Wizard were all really small. I guess Hang 'em High wasn’t small, but because of those lines of sight, you’d have cross map battles all the time. Look at the game play. Halo has never been as fast.
>
> 5)I just don’t understand why we would try to please the fans. Why would you ask for their opinion?
>
> 6)Why can’t the BMS be set to sprint-like speeds? What’s wrong with smaller maps or like a bigger FoV? I’m sure you remember Quake…
>
> 7)I do agree that H3 was really slow and so did the community back in the day. But adding sprint wouldn’t have made H3 faster. Just like increasing the BMS didn’t. There was no reason to move. It will be a camp-fest if it takes 4 minutes for the rockets to respawn. But look at CE. The sniper spawns every 30 seconds and the power-ups spawn every minute. That’s why CE was the fastest. I also think it’s unfair to say that the H3 BMS was increased because the game was slow when it was just as possible that it was increased to make strafing easier. Let’s not forget that it was 2012 with Reach(the first game with sprint) where they took out sprint for the Mlg playlist and Mlg dropped Halo because the views were so low.
>
> 8) Something that I would like you to address is that sprint encourages double melees(Charges nowadays), it makes it so that you can’t really chase anyone and it makes the game (more)random. It doesn’t even make the game faster. Sprint also hurts the campaing, here’s a quote by Celestis, my hero:
>
>
> > -Snip-
>
>
> 9) I could see sprint in BTB. I actually really liked Reaches BTB. It could also be a pick-up on an arena map, like the OS, Camo, or Speed boost.
>
> 10) Sorry that this took so long. I’ve been kinda busy lately.

  1. I agree with you insofar that “random=less skillful gameplay”. But slightly less predictable encounters doesn’t mean completely those encounters are completely random either. Sprinting from a spawn point doesn’t “roll the dice,” for the opponent on where that player will be. It just reduces the ability to predict how long it’ll take to traverse the map; thereby making those combat engagements slightly less predictable by increasing RNG in this method. I think this has been good for Halo, especially given the careful balancing techniques that 343i has applied to sprint in Halo 5 to address/mitigate the rare “cat and mouse,” issues in Halo 4

  2. All great maps that you bring up (and great times indeed)… But those open lines of sight aren’t always a good thing and can’t really happen in every single map in Halo. Newer maps that don’t have those open lines of sight have slower, more boring paces of combat (such as BTB in Halo 3)

  3. Fan feedback is extremely important when developing video games, as discussed by 343i’s Dan Ayoub right here… That’s the whole purpose of having betas in the first place

  4. I’m sure you also remember CoD’s super-face paced twitch combat. That’s what a sprint-like setting for one BMS would lead to. It’s harder to shoot/move at the same time so players would get rewarded for shooting first versus shooting accurately

  5. I agree that the long respawn timers were a problem in Halo 3 and that sprint probably wouldn’t have fixed everything. But sprint would have helped increase the pace of combat. It certainly couldn’t have made matters any worse regarding the issue of camping in Halo 3. Machine guns (and other close quarters weaponry/equipment) are way more effective at close range, so if you can use them more effectively by closing the gap quicker with sprint then this does help reduce the ability to camp

  6. Double melee’s are a bit of a problem, but this isn’t all due to sprint and thrusters do help with that. You can user thrusters to spring away in unexpected directions to help avoid the dreaded 2-smack

  7. So this sort of coincides with what I’ve been calling for- why not try some playlists with sprint and some without? Furthermore this also would be the best method for 343i to gauge whether more players enjoy playlists with sprint or those without sprint

  8. I also just took a long time replying back to you- mainly because I actually didn’t see your reply as this thread is moving so quickly… Thanks for re-linking it for me.

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“CE had the fastest MP between 1, 2, and 3 but definitely not when compared to Reach, 4, or 5”

“CE had the fastest MP but definitely not when compared to Reach”

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leaves thread