The sprint discussion thread

Games Halo 5: Guardians
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You know what’d be great? If we forgot about this thread, and it just - blew away
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > This thread is a pillow for the 11%ers to scream into. Granted, they’ve been screaming into it for a year now, but it’s cheaper than therapy.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Stop dismissing Anti-Sprinters as the bottom precentile. If Sprint wasn’t a big deal this thread would not be the massive back and forth that it has become. Understand that your stance is not the end all of this debate and If enough people don’t want to put up with the shotty movement of Halo 5 then they have every -Yoinking!- right to Assert their dismay until they’re catered to. Stop acting like an over irritated soccer Mom and Let Discussions run their course. Sprint’s affect on Map Flow is not Innocent. No matter how hard you try to convince yourself otherwise
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Granted, it’s been a while since the poll, but it showed that 11% were completely against sprint. That’s not me making it up. If there has been a more scientific poll with an appropriately sized sample base I completely missed it. As far as thread size, how many unique users does it have? How many of them are anti-sprint? This is an echo chamber of like-minded people that’s been going on for a while now. Of course it’s big. That proves nothing in the grand scheme of things.
> > > > > > > > > > > > You criticize me for asserting an opinion and then go on to state a couple of your own as absolute truths while lecturing me on not allowing a conversation to run it’s course. Do I need to explain why that is just silly/hypocritical?
> > > > > > > > > > > > Plenty of people have eloquently explained why they disagree with sprint and it has contributed to the discussion in a meaningful way. Your response to me was anything but.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > By the way, I feel for the 11%ers. I’ve said it since day one. I don’t think their opinion has any less merit than my own, I just think I’m fortunate enough to be in the majority on this one. And that’s what it all comes down to. I think most halo players these days just want to sprint. If 343 want’s to maximize profits (they’re a business, they are not our bros) then they have to cater to the majority. Some times that’s you, sometimes it’s someone else.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway wasn’t trying to trigger you. I mean, I can see how that whole pillow comment can be construed as snide. I just try to be a little colorful when I post. Bored at work.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > The majority of people who currently play halo are the minority though. That’s the problem.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Sorry, I don’t follow.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Let’s say there are 100k people who regularly play H5. Even if 90% of those people like sprint it doesn’t really matter because there are millions upon millions upon millions of potential halo players out there who’s preferences are largely unknown.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > A poll was conducted closer to launch when more people were playing. The results were overwhelmingly pro-sprint.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > What was that again?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I think the problem here is that you are under the impression that a reddit poll is accurate. It really isn’t, I promise.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Proof speaks louder than words. If I wanted to I could probably go and find all the polls mentioned by the post.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Polls are opinionated in the first place… What’s the point of going down such a rabbit hole? The best way to truly gauge players’ opinions about sprint would be for 343i to let players try the next Halo title in an open beta. 343i can collect feedback after players try playlists with and without sprint.
> > >
> > >
> > > Sprint is opinionated also, your point?
> > >
> > > An open beta wont give the developers enough time to make the gameplay decisions needed by the time of release. These type of decisions need to be made very early into the development process.
> >
> >
> > My “point,” was that showing proof of a poll that’s opinionated in the first place is really mute to begins with. And games can be tweaked a tremendous amount during the development cycle; especially via betas.
>
>
> Then Halo 6 or future Halo game’s beta should be on very early stage of development, earlier than alpha, to remove or add mechanics to the game. Simply removing or adding after the feedback doesn’t work.

it wouldnt be a beta at that point. Beta’s are the time segment within game development nearing the release of the game. If it was a pre-alpha then maybe I could see that working, however it would probably be very buggy and not really suitable for the public audience.

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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You know what’d be great? If we forgot about this thread, and it just - blew away
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This thread is a pillow for the 11%ers to scream into. Granted, they’ve been screaming into it for a year now, but it’s cheaper than therapy.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stop dismissing Anti-Sprinters as the bottom precentile. If Sprint wasn’t a big deal this thread would not be the massive back and forth that it has become. Understand that your stance is not the end all of this debate and If enough people don’t want to put up with the shotty movement of Halo 5 then they have every -Yoinking!- right to Assert their dismay until they’re catered to. Stop acting like an over irritated soccer Mom and Let Discussions run their course. Sprint’s affect on Map Flow is not Innocent. No matter how hard you try to convince yourself otherwise
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Granted, it’s been a while since the poll, but it showed that 11% were completely against sprint. That’s not me making it up. If there has been a more scientific poll with an appropriately sized sample base I completely missed it. As far as thread size, how many unique users does it have? How many of them are anti-sprint? This is an echo chamber of like-minded people that’s been going on for a while now. Of course it’s big. That proves nothing in the grand scheme of things.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > You criticize me for asserting an opinion and then go on to state a couple of your own as absolute truths while lecturing me on not allowing a conversation to run it’s course. Do I need to explain why that is just silly/hypocritical?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Plenty of people have eloquently explained why they disagree with sprint and it has contributed to the discussion in a meaningful way. Your response to me was anything but.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > By the way, I feel for the 11%ers. I’ve said it since day one. I don’t think their opinion has any less merit than my own, I just think I’m fortunate enough to be in the majority on this one. And that’s what it all comes down to. I think most halo players these days just want to sprint. If 343 want’s to maximize profits (they’re a business, they are not our bros) then they have to cater to the majority. Some times that’s you, sometimes it’s someone else.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway wasn’t trying to trigger you. I mean, I can see how that whole pillow comment can be construed as snide. I just try to be a little colorful when I post. Bored at work.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > The majority of people who currently play halo are the minority though. That’s the problem.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Sorry, I don’t follow.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Let’s say there are 100k people who regularly play H5. Even if 90% of those people like sprint it doesn’t really matter because there are millions upon millions upon millions of potential halo players out there who’s preferences are largely unknown.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > A poll was conducted closer to launch when more people were playing. The results were overwhelmingly pro-sprint.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > What was that again?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I think the problem here is that you are under the impression that a reddit poll is accurate. It really isn’t, I promise.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Proof speaks louder than words. If I wanted to I could probably go and find all the polls mentioned by the post.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Polls are opinionated in the first place… What’s the point of going down such a rabbit hole? The best way to truly gauge players’ opinions about sprint would be for 343i to let players try the next Halo title in an open beta. 343i can collect feedback after players try playlists with and without sprint.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Sprint is opinionated also, your point?
> > > >
> > > > An open beta wont give the developers enough time to make the gameplay decisions needed by the time of release. These type of decisions need to be made very early into the development process.
> > >
> > >
> > > My “point,” was that showing proof of a poll that’s opinionated in the first place is really mute to begins with. And games can be tweaked a tremendous amount during the development cycle; especially via betas.
> >
> >
> > Then Halo 6 or future Halo game’s beta should be on very early stage of development, earlier than alpha, to remove or add mechanics to the game. Simply removing or adding after the feedback doesn’t work.
>
>
> it wouldnt be a beta at that point. Beta’s are the time segment within game development nearing the release of the game. If it was a pre-alpha then maybe I could see that working, however it would probably be very buggy and not really suitable for the public audience.

I misused the word there.

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> > > > > > > > Debating about the polls is silly. No matter the result of them, they don’t matter. This is a creative medium.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Success in creative mediums is often attained by subverting expectations and giving people something they didn’t expect to love but end up loving.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > “Anti sprinters” are convinced replacing sprint with high BMS will do this and no data exists that can disprove this theory.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I think I’ve heard and seen many points supporting why one high BMS will definitely not replace sprint and would make Halo worse
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Where? I’ve read a lot of this thread and I’ve yet to see any convincing points along that line.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I’ve got no intention of repeating myself on this… I already given you 27 points that I’ve provided and yes I do address why one BMS is not the answer. But if you couldn’t/didn’t read it the first time it’s doubtful you’d catch it this time.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I said convincing points.
> > >
> > >
> > > How about you try reading them then this time instead of blowing them off? I mean, I know how incredibly bias you are on this issue towards sprint but you never addressed any of those points, such as the one you literally just asked me to provide. If you don’t want (or know how) to read them how about you just keep your comments about them to yourself. If you’re going to try to declare that there’s no evidence to support that one BMS wouldn’t work for Halo then you should equally be able to accept the fact that there’s also no evidence to support the opposite.
> > >
> > > And for the record, all of your opinions about sprint that I’ve read on here are certainly no more convincing than anyone else’s.
> >
> >
> > Actually theres quite overwhelming evidence that one BMS would work for Halo
>
>
> Absolutely not, not at all. There have been opinions either way depending on whether or not people are pro or anti sprint… But there’s certainly not “overwhelming evidence,” that removing sprint in favor of one BMS would work at this point… A number of abilities and game mechanics branch off of sprint and all those would be lost. The MLG community in Halo 3 had to increase BMS by 10% because the default BMS didn’t work for the competitive gaming community… And I realize there are a lot of different opinions floating around as to why that actually was but fact is that one BMS created a problem the last time it happened in a Halo title so it’ll probably create the same problems again today. And yes, that’s an opinion but it certainly neutralizes any notion that there’s “overwhelming evidence,” to support one BMS working either.

Of course there is halo 1 to 3 “worked” this isn’t a question of which people prefer, or what led to the drop in sales for which i agree it can’t be truly measured but to say one BMS doesnt work in Halo would be to say Halo 1 to 3 were failures when they were anything but, the numbers simply disagree with that sentiment, each game saw growth in sales and in active players from 1-3.

A 10% increase in BMS for Halo 3 is still one BMS regardless of wether the orginal BMS didn’t work for MLG, and most would agree Halo 3 was slow paced but this wasn’t a problem needed sprint to fix, like you say a 10% increase for MLG did the job just fine.

One BMS wasnt and never has been a problem in Halo the speed of that BMS maybe but there was never an overwhelming clamour sprint to be added to fix a problem that lets be honest was never truly there.

None of these current abilities are intrisically tied to sprint that they couldn’t exist without it, thats just plain false

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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You know what’d be great? If we forgot about this thread, and it just - blew away
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > This thread is a pillow for the 11%ers to scream into. Granted, they’ve been screaming into it for a year now, but it’s cheaper than therapy.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Stop dismissing Anti-Sprinters as the bottom precentile. If Sprint wasn’t a big deal this thread would not be the massive back and forth that it has become. Understand that your stance is not the end all of this debate and If enough people don’t want to put up with the shotty movement of Halo 5 then they have every -Yoinking!- right to Assert their dismay until they’re catered to. Stop acting like an over irritated soccer Mom and Let Discussions run their course. Sprint’s affect on Map Flow is not Innocent. No matter how hard you try to convince yourself otherwise
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Granted, it’s been a while since the poll, but it showed that 11% were completely against sprint. That’s not me making it up. If there has been a more scientific poll with an appropriately sized sample base I completely missed it. As far as thread size, how many unique users does it have? How many of them are anti-sprint? This is an echo chamber of like-minded people that’s been going on for a while now. Of course it’s big. That proves nothing in the grand scheme of things.
> > > > > > > > > > > > You criticize me for asserting an opinion and then go on to state a couple of your own as absolute truths while lecturing me on not allowing a conversation to run it’s course. Do I need to explain why that is just silly/hypocritical?
> > > > > > > > > > > > Plenty of people have eloquently explained why they disagree with sprint and it has contributed to the discussion in a meaningful way. Your response to me was anything but.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > By the way, I feel for the 11%ers. I’ve said it since day one. I don’t think their opinion has any less merit than my own, I just think I’m fortunate enough to be in the majority on this one. And that’s what it all comes down to. I think most halo players these days just want to sprint. If 343 want’s to maximize profits (they’re a business, they are not our bros) then they have to cater to the majority. Some times that’s you, sometimes it’s someone else.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway wasn’t trying to trigger you. I mean, I can see how that whole pillow comment can be construed as snide. I just try to be a little colorful when I post. Bored at work.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > The majority of people who currently play halo are the minority though. That’s the problem.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Sorry, I don’t follow.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Let’s say there are 100k people who regularly play H5. Even if 90% of those people like sprint it doesn’t really matter because there are millions upon millions upon millions of potential halo players out there who’s preferences are largely unknown.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > A poll was conducted closer to launch when more people were playing. The results were overwhelmingly pro-sprint.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > What was that again?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I think the problem here is that you are under the impression that a reddit poll is accurate. It really isn’t, I promise.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Proof speaks louder than words. If I wanted to I could probably go and find all the polls mentioned by the post.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Polls are opinionated in the first place… What’s the point of going down such a rabbit hole? The best way to truly gauge players’ opinions about sprint would be for 343i to let players try the next Halo title in an open beta. 343i can collect feedback after players try playlists with and without sprint.
> > >
> > >
> > > Sprint is opinionated also, your point?
> > >
> > > An open beta wont give the developers enough time to make the gameplay decisions needed by the time of release. These type of decisions need to be made very early into the development process.
> >
> >
> > My “point,” was that showing proof of a poll that’s opinionated in the first place is really mute to begins with. And games can be tweaked a tremendous amount during the development cycle; especially via betas.
>
>
> Polls are supposed to be opinions on debatable topics. They show a consensus of the general public on the topic being discussed (In this case Halo and sprint). I dont see how thousands of peoples opinions can just be disregarded, I bet if the polls favored differently you wouldnt be saying the same thing.
>
> Again, if you think a beta can solve all the problems then you are gravely mistaken. Sprint is not a minor change, it needs to be adjusted within the game accordingly. You remove sprint and a huge dynamic of the game changes. Removing sprint is not something you can adjust to within a year. Sprint is something that must be decided upon early in development.

Polls only show a census if properly executed. There have been a plethora of polls executed incorrectly such as the Reddit poll which tried to combine flinch/sprint and people later referenced the poll by trying to skew results out of the flinch/sprint poll to support their anti sprint stance… Furthermore those polls have have anywhere from a few dozen to a maximum of a few thousand participants. Halo titles sell units in the millions so that’s hardly acceptable as a sample size of the population- especially since such a large amount of gamers wouldn’t take the time to go onto forums looking for polls like that in the first place… And the ones that would have a problem with something are more likely to go looking for mediums to express their discontent than those who are satisfied with something like sprint.

Nothing is being disregarded, polls aren’t useless but they must be viewed with skepticism for obvious reasons.

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> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2535451091657464;10869:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You know what’d be great? If we forgot about this thread, and it just - blew away
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This thread is a pillow for the 11%ers to scream into. Granted, they’ve been screaming into it for a year now, but it’s cheaper than therapy.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stop dismissing Anti-Sprinters as the bottom precentile. If Sprint wasn’t a big deal this thread would not be the massive back and forth that it has become. Understand that your stance is not the end all of this debate and If enough people don’t want to put up with the shotty movement of Halo 5 then they have every -Yoinking!- right to Assert their dismay until they’re catered to. Stop acting like an over irritated soccer Mom and Let Discussions run their course. Sprint’s affect on Map Flow is not Innocent. No matter how hard you try to convince yourself otherwise
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Granted, it’s been a while since the poll, but it showed that 11% were completely against sprint. That’s not me making it up. If there has been a more scientific poll with an appropriately sized sample base I completely missed it. As far as thread size, how many unique users does it have? How many of them are anti-sprint? This is an echo chamber of like-minded people that’s been going on for a while now. Of course it’s big. That proves nothing in the grand scheme of things.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > You criticize me for asserting an opinion and then go on to state a couple of your own as absolute truths while lecturing me on not allowing a conversation to run it’s course. Do I need to explain why that is just silly/hypocritical?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Plenty of people have eloquently explained why they disagree with sprint and it has contributed to the discussion in a meaningful way. Your response to me was anything but.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > By the way, I feel for the 11%ers. I’ve said it since day one. I don’t think their opinion has any less merit than my own, I just think I’m fortunate enough to be in the majority on this one. And that’s what it all comes down to. I think most halo players these days just want to sprint. If 343 want’s to maximize profits (they’re a business, they are not our bros) then they have to cater to the majority. Some times that’s you, sometimes it’s someone else.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway wasn’t trying to trigger you. I mean, I can see how that whole pillow comment can be construed as snide. I just try to be a little colorful when I post. Bored at work.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > The majority of people who currently play halo are the minority though. That’s the problem.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry, I don’t follow.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Let’s say there are 100k people who regularly play H5. Even if 90% of those people like sprint it doesn’t really matter because there are millions upon millions upon millions of potential halo players out there who’s preferences are largely unknown.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > A poll was conducted closer to launch when more people were playing. The results were overwhelmingly pro-sprint.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > What was that again?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I think the problem here is that you are under the impression that a reddit poll is accurate. It really isn’t, I promise.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Proof speaks louder than words. If I wanted to I could probably go and find all the polls mentioned by the post.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Polls are opinionated in the first place… What’s the point of going down such a rabbit hole? The best way to truly gauge players’ opinions about sprint would be for 343i to let players try the next Halo title in an open beta. 343i can collect feedback after players try playlists with and without sprint.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Sprint is opinionated also, your point?
> > > > >
> > > > > An open beta wont give the developers enough time to make the gameplay decisions needed by the time of release. These type of decisions need to be made very early into the development process.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > My “point,” was that showing proof of a poll that’s opinionated in the first place is really mute to begins with. And games can be tweaked a tremendous amount during the development cycle; especially via betas.
> > >
> > >
> > > Then Halo 6 or future Halo game’s beta should be on very early stage of development, earlier than alpha, to remove or add mechanics to the game. Simply removing or adding after the feedback doesn’t work.
> >
> >
> > it wouldnt be a beta at that point. Beta’s are the time segment within game development nearing the release of the game. If it was a pre-alpha then maybe I could see that working, however it would probably be very buggy and not really suitable for the public audience.
>
>
> I misused the word there.

I figured. Just clarifying.

10969

> 2625759425619671;10957:
> > 2533274867266391;10955:
> > > 2533274825044752;10918:
> > > > 2533274867266391;10900:
> > > > > 2533274825044752;10891:
> > > > > > 2535450703392903;10890:
> > > > > > > 2533274825044752;10889:
> > > > > > > > 2535450703392903;10888:
> > > > > > > > > 2533274825044752;10883:
> > > > > > > > > > 2535431550546249;10877:
> > > > > > > > > > > 2533274825044752;10874:
> > > > > > > > > > > > 2535451091657464;10869:
> > > > > > > > > > > > You know what’d be great? If we forgot about this thread, and it just - blew away
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > This thread is a pillow for the 11%ers to scream into. Granted, they’ve been screaming into it for a year now, but it’s cheaper than therapy.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Stop dismissing Anti-Sprinters as the bottom precentile. If Sprint wasn’t a big deal this thread would not be the massive back and forth that it has become. Understand that your stance is not the end all of this debate and If enough people don’t want to put up with the shotty movement of Halo 5 then they have every -Yoinking!- right to Assert their dismay until they’re catered to. Stop acting like an over irritated soccer Mom and Let Discussions run their course. Sprint’s affect on Map Flow is not Innocent. No matter how hard you try to convince yourself otherwise
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Granted, it’s been a while since the poll, but it showed that 11% were completely against sprint. That’s not me making it up. If there has been a more scientific poll with an appropriately sized sample base I completely missed it. As far as thread size, how many unique users does it have? How many of them are anti-sprint? This is an echo chamber of like-minded people that’s been going on for a while now. Of course it’s big. That proves nothing in the grand scheme of things.
> > > > > > > > > You criticize me for asserting an opinion and then go on to state a couple of your own as absolute truths while lecturing me on not allowing a conversation to run it’s course. Do I need to explain why that is just silly/hypocritical?
> > > > > > > > > Plenty of people have eloquently explained why they disagree with sprint and it has contributed to the discussion in a meaningful way. Your response to me was anything but.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > By the way, I feel for the 11%ers. I’ve said it since day one. I don’t think their opinion has any less merit than my own, I just think I’m fortunate enough to be in the majority on this one. And that’s what it all comes down to. I think most halo players these days just want to sprint. If 343 want’s to maximize profits (they’re a business, they are not our bros) then they have to cater to the majority. Some times that’s you, sometimes it’s someone else.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Anyway wasn’t trying to trigger you. I mean, I can see how that whole pillow comment can be construed as snide. I just try to be a little colorful when I post. Bored at work.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The majority of people who currently play halo are the minority though. That’s the problem.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Sorry, I don’t follow.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Let’s say there are 100k people who regularly play H5. Even if 90% of those people like sprint it doesn’t really matter because there are millions upon millions upon millions of potential halo players out there who’s preferences are largely unknown.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > A poll was conducted closer to launch when more people were playing. The results were overwhelmingly pro-sprint.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > What was that again?
> > >
> > >
> > > I think the problem here is that you are under the impression that a reddit poll is accurate. It really isn’t, I promise.
> >
> >
> > Proof speaks louder than words. If I wanted to I could probably go and find all the polls mentioned by the post.
>
>
> Polls are opinionated in the first place… What’s the point of going down such a rabbit hole? The best way to truly gauge players’ opinions about sprint would be for 343i to let players try the next Halo title in an open beta. 343i can collect feedback after players try playlists with and without sprint.

sigh
Did you even read what was said here? Really, did you read? Serious question. Here, I’ll post some of it here for you to read, since apparently you didn’t.

People on Reddit:
Do you like that Sprint was permanently added to Halo? (1727 total responses)
69% No, sprint is hurting the game and should be removed.
31% Yes, sprint is part of Halo and needs to stay.

Ok, how about MLG / Competitive people (who the game was apparently designed for)
TeamBeyond.net
Would you like sprint removed from Halo 5?
95% Yes
5% No

Alright… that’s a little bit more telling… how about HERE ON HALO WAYPOINT CONDUCTED BY A 343i EMPLOYEE (Ghostayame)
Should sprint stay in Halo?
71% No, this mechanic doesn’t belong in Halo
27% Yes, this mechanic belongs in Halo

Well… apparently your logic doesn’t hold up to this community which has supposedly plenty of “pro-sprint” people in it. The fact that u/6_P went out of his way to create three separate polls that were unlinked to each other and had unbiased thoughts going into the poll, is very telling of what people actually feel about the game.

If you still think Halo 6 should be pro-sprint, then you’re basically going against the large majority of the Halo community. If you like sprint so much, go play a game that does have it and incorporates it well… like Call of Duty.

10970

> 2533274921982810;10966:
> > 2625759425619671;10954:
> > > 2533274921982810;10948:
> > > > 2625759425619671;10947:
> > > > > 2535450703392903;10946:
> > > > > > 2625759425619671;10945:
> > > > > > > 2535450703392903;10943:
> > > > > > > > 2625759425619671;10942:
> > > > > > > > > 2535450703392903;10941:
> > > > > > > > > Debating about the polls is silly. No matter the result of them, they don’t matter. This is a creative medium.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Success in creative mediums is often attained by subverting expectations and giving people something they didn’t expect to love but end up loving.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > “Anti sprinters” are convinced replacing sprint with high BMS will do this and no data exists that can disprove this theory.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I think I’ve heard and seen many points supporting why one high BMS will definitely not replace sprint and would make Halo worse
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Where? I’ve read a lot of this thread and I’ve yet to see any convincing points along that line.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I’ve got no intention of repeating myself on this… I already given you 27 points that I’ve provided and yes I do address why one BMS is not the answer. But if you couldn’t/didn’t read it the first time it’s doubtful you’d catch it this time.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I said convincing points.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > How about you try reading them then this time instead of blowing them off? I mean, I know how incredibly bias you are on this issue towards sprint but you never addressed any of those points, such as the one you literally just asked me to provide. If you don’t want (or know how) to read them how about you just keep your comments about them to yourself. If you’re going to try to declare that there’s no evidence to support that one BMS wouldn’t work for Halo then you should equally be able to accept the fact that there’s also no evidence to support the opposite.
> > > >
> > > > And for the record, all of your opinions about sprint that I’ve read on here are certainly no more convincing than anyone else’s.
> >
> >
> > Absolutely not, not at all. There have been opinions either way depending on whether or not people are pro or anti sprint… But there’s certainly not “overwhelming evidence,” that removing sprint in favor of one BMS would work at this point… A number of abilities and game mechanics branch off of sprint and all those would be lost. The MLG community in Halo 3 had to increase BMS by 10% because the default BMS didn’t work for the competitive gaming community… And I realize there are a lot of different opinions floating around as to why that actually was but fact is that one BMS created a problem the last time it happened in a Halo title so it’ll probably create the same problems again today. And yes, that’s an opinion but it certainly neutralizes any notion that there’s “overwhelming evidence,” to support one BMS working either.
>
>
> Of course there is halo 1 to 3 “worked” this isn’t a question of which people prefer, or what led to the drop in sales for which i agree it can’t be truly measured but to say one BMS doesnt work in Halo would be to say Halo 1 to 3 were failures when they were anything but, the numbers simply disagree with that sentiment, each game saw growth in sales and in active players from 1-3.
>
> A 10% increase in BMS for Halo 3 is still one BMS regardless of wether the orginal BMS didn’t work for MLG, and most would agree Halo 3 was slow paced but this wasn’t a problem needed sprint to fix, like you say a 10% increase for MLG did the job just fine.
>
> One BMS wasnt and never has been a problem in Halo the speed of that BMS maybe but there was never an overwhelming clamour sprint to be added to fix a problem that lets be honest was never truly there.

That’s just plain ridiculous, because no matter how you try to twist things now the fact is that the one BMS in Halo 3 was a problem as it had to fixed by adjusting that ONE BMS by a full 10% to rectify the problems that it created.

10971

> 2625759425619671;10970:
> > 2533274921982810;10966:
> > > 2625759425619671;10954:
> > > > 2533274921982810;10948:
> > > > > 2625759425619671;10947:
> > > > > > 2535450703392903;10946:
> > > > > > > 2625759425619671;10945:
> > > > > > > > 2535450703392903;10943:
> > > > > > > > > 2625759425619671;10942:
> > > > > > > > > > 2535450703392903;10941:
> > > > > > > > > > Debating about the polls is silly. No matter the result of them, they don’t matter. This is a creative medium.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Success in creative mediums is often attained by subverting expectations and giving people something they didn’t expect to love but end up loving.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > “Anti sprinters” are convinced replacing sprint with high BMS will do this and no data exists that can disprove this theory.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I think I’ve heard and seen many points supporting why one high BMS will definitely not replace sprint and would make Halo worse
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Where? I’ve read a lot of this thread and I’ve yet to see any convincing points along that line.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I’ve got no intention of repeating myself on this… I already given you 27 points that I’ve provided and yes I do address why one BMS is not the answer. But if you couldn’t/didn’t read it the first time it’s doubtful you’d catch it this time.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I said convincing points.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > How about you try reading them then this time instead of blowing them off? I mean, I know how incredibly bias you are on this issue towards sprint but you never addressed any of those points, such as the one you literally just asked me to provide. If you don’t want (or know how) to read them how about you just keep your comments about them to yourself. If you’re going to try to declare that there’s no evidence to support that one BMS wouldn’t work for Halo then you should equally be able to accept the fact that there’s also no evidence to support the opposite.
> > > > >
> > > > > And for the record, all of your opinions about sprint that I’ve read on here are certainly no more convincing than anyone else’s.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Actually theres quite overwhelming evidence that one BMS would work for Halo
> > >
> > >
> > > Absolutely not, not at all. There have been opinions either way depending on whether or not people are pro or anti sprint… But there’s certainly not “overwhelming evidence,” that removing sprint in favor of one BMS would work at this point… A number of abilities and game mechanics branch off of sprint and all those would be lost. The MLG community in Halo 3 had to increase BMS by 10% because the default BMS didn’t work for the competitive gaming community… And I realize there are a lot of different opinions floating around as to why that actually was but fact is that one BMS created a problem the last time it happened in a Halo title so it’ll probably create the same problems again today. And yes, that’s an opinion but it certainly neutralizes any notion that there’s “overwhelming evidence,” to support one BMS working either.
> >
> >
> > Of course there is halo 1 to 3 “worked” this isn’t a question of which people prefer, or what led to the drop in sales for which i agree it can’t be truly measured but to say one BMS doesnt work in Halo would be to say Halo 1 to 3 were failures when they were anything but, the numbers simply disagree with that sentiment, each game saw growth in sales and in active players from 1-3.
> >
> > A 10% increase in BMS for Halo 3 is still one BMS regardless of wether the orginal BMS didn’t work for MLG, and most would agree Halo 3 was slow paced but this wasn’t a problem needed sprint to fix, like you say a 10% increase for MLG did the job just fine.
> >
> > One BMS wasnt and never has been a problem in Halo the speed of that BMS maybe but there was never an overwhelming clamour sprint to be added to fix a problem that lets be honest was never truly there.
>
>
> That’s just plain ridiculous, because no matter how you try to twist things now the fact is that the one BMS in Halo 3 was a problem as it had to fixed by adjusting that ONE BMS by a full 10% to rectify the problem that it created.

Your heads gone mate

10972

> 2549359074790154;10969:
> > 2625759425619671;10957:
> > > 2533274867266391;10955:
> > > > 2533274825044752;10918:
> > > > > 2533274867266391;10900:
> > > > > > 2533274825044752;10891:
> > > > > > > 2535450703392903;10890:
> > > > > > > > 2533274825044752;10889:
> > > > > > > > > 2535450703392903;10888:
> > > > > > > > > > 2533274825044752;10883:
> > > > > > > > > > > 2535431550546249;10877:
> > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274825044752;10874:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 2535451091657464;10869:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > You know what’d be great? If we forgot about this thread, and it just - blew away
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > This thread is a pillow for the 11%ers to scream into. Granted, they’ve been screaming into it for a year now, but it’s cheaper than therapy.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Stop dismissing Anti-Sprinters as the bottom precentile. If Sprint wasn’t a big deal this thread would not be the massive back and forth that it has become. Understand that your stance is not the end all of this debate and If enough people don’t want to put up with the shotty movement of Halo 5 then they have every -Yoinking!- right to Assert their dismay until they’re catered to. Stop acting like an over irritated soccer Mom and Let Discussions run their course. Sprint’s affect on Map Flow is not Innocent. No matter how hard you try to convince yourself otherwise
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Granted, it’s been a while since the poll, but it showed that 11% were completely against sprint. That’s not me making it up. If there has been a more scientific poll with an appropriately sized sample base I completely missed it. As far as thread size, how many unique users does it have? How many of them are anti-sprint? This is an echo chamber of like-minded people that’s been going on for a while now. Of course it’s big. That proves nothing in the grand scheme of things.
> > > > > > > > > > You criticize me for asserting an opinion and then go on to state a couple of your own as absolute truths while lecturing me on not allowing a conversation to run it’s course. Do I need to explain why that is just silly/hypocritical?
> > > > > > > > > > Plenty of people have eloquently explained why they disagree with sprint and it has contributed to the discussion in a meaningful way. Your response to me was anything but.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > By the way, I feel for the 11%ers. I’ve said it since day one. I don’t think their opinion has any less merit than my own, I just think I’m fortunate enough to be in the majority on this one. And that’s what it all comes down to. I think most halo players these days just want to sprint. If 343 want’s to maximize profits (they’re a business, they are not our bros) then they have to cater to the majority. Some times that’s you, sometimes it’s someone else.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Anyway wasn’t trying to trigger you. I mean, I can see how that whole pillow comment can be construed as snide. I just try to be a little colorful when I post. Bored at work.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The majority of people who currently play halo are the minority though. That’s the problem.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Sorry, I don’t follow.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Let’s say there are 100k people who regularly play H5. Even if 90% of those people like sprint it doesn’t really matter because there are millions upon millions upon millions of potential halo players out there who’s preferences are largely unknown.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > A poll was conducted closer to launch when more people were playing. The results were overwhelmingly pro-sprint.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > What was that again?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I think the problem here is that you are under the impression that a reddit poll is accurate. It really isn’t, I promise.
> > >
> > >
> > > Proof speaks louder than words. If I wanted to I could probably go and find all the polls mentioned by the post.
> >
> >
> > Polls are opinionated in the first place… What’s the point of going down such a rabbit hole? The best way to truly gauge players’ opinions about sprint would be for 343i to let players try the next Halo title in an open beta. 343i can collect feedback after players try playlists with and without sprint.
>
>
> sigh
> Did you even read what was said here? Really, did you read? Serious question. Here, I’ll post some of it here for you to read, since apparently you didn’t.
>
> People on Reddit:
> Do you like that Sprint was permanently added to Halo? (1727 total responses)
> 69% No, sprint is hurting the game and should be removed.
> 31% Yes, sprint is part of Halo and needs to stay.
>
> Ok, how about MLG / Competitive people (who the game was apparently designed for)
> TeamBeyond.net
> Would you like sprint removed from Halo 5?
> 95% Yes
> 5% No
>
> Alright… that’s a little bit more telling… how about HERE ON HALO WAYPOINT CONDUCTED BY A 343i EMPLOYEE (Ghostayame)
> Should sprint stay in Halo?
> 71% No, this mechanic doesn’t belong in Halo
> 27% Yes, this mechanic belongs in Halo
>
> Well… apparently your logic doesn’t hold up to this community which has supposedly plenty of “pro-sprint” people in it. The fact that u/6_P went out of his way to create three separate polls that were unlinked to each other and had unbiased thoughts going into the poll, is very telling of what people actually feel about the game.
>
> If you still think Halo 6 should be pro-sprint, then you’re basically going against the large majority of the Halo community. If you like sprint so much, go play a game that does have it and incorporates it well… like Call of Duty.

The poll I referred to was the last one and yes i read it. As I stated the question and responses that that Reddit user referenced were not the same questions in the poll in that video. The poll in the linked video was asking gamers how they felt about flinch/sprint with every response to that question being tied back into flinch somehow… None of that was stated by the Reddit user who cited that poll; NOR the fact that the poll was less than a day old at the time of that video. The second Team Beyond poll had all of about 200 responses before it was closed by its OP.

10973

> 2625759425619671;10972:
> The second Team Beyond poll had all of about 200 responses before it was closed by its OP.

95% of 200 people is 190 people… So you’re telling me 10 people voted pro-sprint… and that’s not saying something?

10974

> 2535456165221911;10961:
> > 2625759425619671;10959:
> > > 2533274867266391;10958:
> > > > 2625759425619671;10957:
> > > > > 2533274867266391;10955:
> > > > > > 2533274825044752;10918:
> > > > > > > 2533274867266391;10900:
> > > > > > > > 2533274825044752;10891:
> > > > > > > > > 2535450703392903;10890:
> > > > > > > > > > 2533274825044752;10889:
> > > > > > > > > > > 2535450703392903;10888:
> > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274825044752;10883:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 2535431550546249;10877:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274825044752;10874:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2535451091657464;10869:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You know what’d be great? If we forgot about this thread, and it just - blew away
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > This thread is a pillow for the 11%ers to scream into. Granted, they’ve been screaming into it for a year now, but it’s cheaper than therapy.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Stop dismissing Anti-Sprinters as the bottom precentile. If Sprint wasn’t a big deal this thread would not be the massive back and forth that it has become. Understand that your stance is not the end all of this debate and If enough people don’t want to put up with the shotty movement of Halo 5 then they have every -Yoinking!- right to Assert their dismay until they’re catered to. Stop acting like an over irritated soccer Mom and Let Discussions run their course. Sprint’s affect on Map Flow is not Innocent. No matter how hard you try to convince yourself otherwise
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Granted, it’s been a while since the poll, but it showed that 11% were completely against sprint. That’s not me making it up. If there has been a more scientific poll with an appropriately sized sample base I completely missed it. As far as thread size, how many unique users does it have? How many of them are anti-sprint? This is an echo chamber of like-minded people that’s been going on for a while now. Of course it’s big. That proves nothing in the grand scheme of things.
> > > > > > > > > > > > You criticize me for asserting an opinion and then go on to state a couple of your own as absolute truths while lecturing me on not allowing a conversation to run it’s course. Do I need to explain why that is just silly/hypocritical?
> > > > > > > > > > > > Plenty of people have eloquently explained why they disagree with sprint and it has contributed to the discussion in a meaningful way. Your response to me was anything but.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > By the way, I feel for the 11%ers. I’ve said it since day one. I don’t think their opinion has any less merit than my own, I just think I’m fortunate enough to be in the majority on this one. And that’s what it all comes down to. I think most halo players these days just want to sprint. If 343 want’s to maximize profits (they’re a business, they are not our bros) then they have to cater to the majority. Some times that’s you, sometimes it’s someone else.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway wasn’t trying to trigger you. I mean, I can see how that whole pillow comment can be construed as snide. I just try to be a little colorful when I post. Bored at work.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > The majority of people who currently play halo are the minority though. That’s the problem.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Sorry, I don’t follow.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Let’s say there are 100k people who regularly play H5. Even if 90% of those people like sprint it doesn’t really matter because there are millions upon millions upon millions of potential halo players out there who’s preferences are largely unknown.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > A poll was conducted closer to launch when more people were playing. The results were overwhelmingly pro-sprint.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > What was that again?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I think the problem here is that you are under the impression that a reddit poll is accurate. It really isn’t, I promise.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Proof speaks louder than words. If I wanted to I could probably go and find all the polls mentioned by the post.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Polls are opinionated in the first place… What’s the point of going down such a rabbit hole? The best way to truly gauge players’ opinions about sprint would be for 343i to let players try the next Halo title in an open beta. 343i can collect feedback after players try playlists with and without sprint.
> > >
> > >
> > > Sprint is opinionated also, your point?
> > >
> > > An open beta wont give the developers enough time to make the gameplay decisions needed by the time of release. These type of decisions need to be made very early into the development process.
> >
> >
> > My “point,” was that showing proof of a poll that’s opinionated in the first place is really mute to begins with. And games can be tweaked a tremendous amount during the development cycle; especially via betas.
>
>
> Then Halo 6 or future Halo game’s public testing should be on very early stage of development, earlier than alpha, to remove or add mechanics to the game. Simply removing or adding after the feedback doesn’t work.

You’re basing that assumption off of what? Your own expert opinion that we should all just believe? How about I help you with this one by citing the multiple open betas for Halo Wars 2 and the fact that 343i has made multiple changes to its gameplay mechanics during the development cycle directly based off of fan feedback.

10975

> 2625759425619671;10967:
> > 2533274867266391;10962:
> > > 2625759425619671;10959:
> > > > 2533274867266391;10958:
> > > > > 2625759425619671;10957:
> > > > > > 2533274867266391;10955:
> > > > > > > 2533274825044752;10918:
> > > > > > > > 2533274867266391;10900:
> > > > > > > > > 2533274825044752;10891:
> > > > > > > > > > 2535450703392903;10890:
> > > > > > > > > > > 2533274825044752;10889:
> > > > > > > > > > > > 2535450703392903;10888:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274825044752;10883:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2535431550546249;10877:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274825044752;10874:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2535451091657464;10869:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You know what’d be great? If we forgot about this thread, and it just - blew away
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This thread is a pillow for the 11%ers to scream into. Granted, they’ve been screaming into it for a year now, but it’s cheaper than therapy.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stop dismissing Anti-Sprinters as the bottom precentile. If Sprint wasn’t a big deal this thread would not be the massive back and forth that it has become. Understand that your stance is not the end all of this debate and If enough people don’t want to put up with the shotty movement of Halo 5 then they have every -Yoinking!- right to Assert their dismay until they’re catered to. Stop acting like an over irritated soccer Mom and Let Discussions run their course. Sprint’s affect on Map Flow is not Innocent. No matter how hard you try to convince yourself otherwise
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Granted, it’s been a while since the poll, but it showed that 11% were completely against sprint. That’s not me making it up. If there has been a more scientific poll with an appropriately sized sample base I completely missed it. As far as thread size, how many unique users does it have? How many of them are anti-sprint? This is an echo chamber of like-minded people that’s been going on for a while now. Of course it’s big. That proves nothing in the grand scheme of things.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > You criticize me for asserting an opinion and then go on to state a couple of your own as absolute truths while lecturing me on not allowing a conversation to run it’s course. Do I need to explain why that is just silly/hypocritical?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Plenty of people have eloquently explained why they disagree with sprint and it has contributed to the discussion in a meaningful way. Your response to me was anything but.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > By the way, I feel for the 11%ers. I’ve said it since day one. I don’t think their opinion has any less merit than my own, I just think I’m fortunate enough to be in the majority on this one. And that’s what it all comes down to. I think most halo players these days just want to sprint. If 343 want’s to maximize profits (they’re a business, they are not our bros) then they have to cater to the majority. Some times that’s you, sometimes it’s someone else.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway wasn’t trying to trigger you. I mean, I can see how that whole pillow comment can be construed as snide. I just try to be a little colorful when I post. Bored at work.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > The majority of people who currently play halo are the minority though. That’s the problem.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Sorry, I don’t follow.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Let’s say there are 100k people who regularly play H5. Even if 90% of those people like sprint it doesn’t really matter because there are millions upon millions upon millions of potential halo players out there who’s preferences are largely unknown.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > A poll was conducted closer to launch when more people were playing. The results were overwhelmingly pro-sprint.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > What was that again?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I think the problem here is that you are under the impression that a reddit poll is accurate. It really isn’t, I promise.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Proof speaks louder than words. If I wanted to I could probably go and find all the polls mentioned by the post.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Polls are opinionated in the first place… What’s the point of going down such a rabbit hole? The best way to truly gauge players’ opinions about sprint would be for 343i to let players try the next Halo title in an open beta. 343i can collect feedback after players try playlists with and without sprint.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Sprint is opinionated also, your point?
> > > >
> > > > An open beta wont give the developers enough time to make the gameplay decisions needed by the time of release. These type of decisions need to be made very early into the development process.
> > >
> > >
> > > My “point,” was that showing proof of a poll that’s opinionated in the first place is really mute to begins with. And games can be tweaked a tremendous amount during the development cycle; especially via betas.
> >
> >
> > Polls are supposed to be opinions on debatable topics. They show a consensus of the general public on the topic being discussed (In this case Halo and sprint). I dont see how thousands of peoples opinions can just be disregarded, I bet if the polls favored differently you wouldnt be saying the same thing.
> >
> > Again, if you think a beta can solve all the problems then you are gravely mistaken. Sprint is not a minor change, it needs to be adjusted within the game accordingly. You remove sprint and a huge dynamic of the game changes. Removing sprint is not something you can adjust to within a year. Sprint is something that must be decided upon early in development.
>
>
> Polls only show a census if properly executed. There have been a plethora of polls executed incorrectly such as the Reddit poll which tried to combine flinch/sprint and people later referenced the poll by trying to skew results out of the flinch/sprint poll to support their anti sprint stance… Furthermore those polls have have anywhere from a few dozen to a maximum of a few thousand participants. Halo titles sell units in the millions so that’s hardly acceptable as a sample size of the population- especially since such a large amount of gamers wouldn’t take the time to go onto forums looking for polls like that in the first place… And the ones that would have a problem with something are more likely to go looking for mediums to express their discontent than those who are satisfied with something like sprint.

Why does flinch matter? The people voting still stated they did not want sprint, with or without flinch.

The people on the forums are the ones who truly care about the game, these are the people companies should be listening to. If we were to ask the general gaming community then they would vote for sprint without a doubt, however these aren’t the people buying the games so why do their opinions have a big say in what goes on? They have other games to accommodate their needs, why do they need to change Halo to their liking?

10976

> 2549359074790154;10973:
> > 2625759425619671;10972:
> > The second Team Beyond poll had all of about 200 responses before it was closed by its OP.
>
>
> 95% of 200 people is 190 people… So you’re telling me 10 people voted pro-sprint… and that’s not saying something?

I’m saying it’s inconclusive… If OP makes an anti-sprint post followed with a poll and closes it prematurely when the results favor their POV then it doesn’t mean as much as a poll that was executed properly- that’s what I’m saying.

10977

> 2625759425619671;10974:
> > 2535456165221911;10961:
> > > 2625759425619671;10959:
> > > > 2533274867266391;10958:
> > > > > 2625759425619671;10957:
> > > > > > 2533274867266391;10955:
> > > > > > > 2533274825044752;10918:
> > > > > > > > 2533274867266391;10900:
> > > > > > > > > 2533274825044752;10891:
> > > > > > > > > > 2535450703392903;10890:
> > > > > > > > > > > 2533274825044752;10889:
> > > > > > > > > > > > 2535450703392903;10888:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274825044752;10883:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2535431550546249;10877:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274825044752;10874:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2535451091657464;10869:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You know what’d be great? If we forgot about this thread, and it just - blew away
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This thread is a pillow for the 11%ers to scream into. Granted, they’ve been screaming into it for a year now, but it’s cheaper than therapy.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stop dismissing Anti-Sprinters as the bottom precentile. If Sprint wasn’t a big deal this thread would not be the massive back and forth that it has become. Understand that your stance is not the end all of this debate and If enough people don’t want to put up with the shotty movement of Halo 5 then they have every -Yoinking!- right to Assert their dismay until they’re catered to. Stop acting like an over irritated soccer Mom and Let Discussions run their course. Sprint’s affect on Map Flow is not Innocent. No matter how hard you try to convince yourself otherwise
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Granted, it’s been a while since the poll, but it showed that 11% were completely against sprint. That’s not me making it up. If there has been a more scientific poll with an appropriately sized sample base I completely missed it. As far as thread size, how many unique users does it have? How many of them are anti-sprint? This is an echo chamber of like-minded people that’s been going on for a while now. Of course it’s big. That proves nothing in the grand scheme of things.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > You criticize me for asserting an opinion and then go on to state a couple of your own as absolute truths while lecturing me on not allowing a conversation to run it’s course. Do I need to explain why that is just silly/hypocritical?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Plenty of people have eloquently explained why they disagree with sprint and it has contributed to the discussion in a meaningful way. Your response to me was anything but.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > By the way, I feel for the 11%ers. I’ve said it since day one. I don’t think their opinion has any less merit than my own, I just think I’m fortunate enough to be in the majority on this one. And that’s what it all comes down to. I think most halo players these days just want to sprint. If 343 want’s to maximize profits (they’re a business, they are not our bros) then they have to cater to the majority. Some times that’s you, sometimes it’s someone else.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway wasn’t trying to trigger you. I mean, I can see how that whole pillow comment can be construed as snide. I just try to be a little colorful when I post. Bored at work.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > The majority of people who currently play halo are the minority though. That’s the problem.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Sorry, I don’t follow.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Let’s say there are 100k people who regularly play H5. Even if 90% of those people like sprint it doesn’t really matter because there are millions upon millions upon millions of potential halo players out there who’s preferences are largely unknown.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > A poll was conducted closer to launch when more people were playing. The results were overwhelmingly pro-sprint.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > What was that again?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I think the problem here is that you are under the impression that a reddit poll is accurate. It really isn’t, I promise.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Proof speaks louder than words. If I wanted to I could probably go and find all the polls mentioned by the post.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Polls are opinionated in the first place… What’s the point of going down such a rabbit hole? The best way to truly gauge players’ opinions about sprint would be for 343i to let players try the next Halo title in an open beta. 343i can collect feedback after players try playlists with and without sprint.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Sprint is opinionated also, your point?
> > > >
> > > > An open beta wont give the developers enough time to make the gameplay decisions needed by the time of release. These type of decisions need to be made very early into the development process.
> > >
> > >
> > > My “point,” was that showing proof of a poll that’s opinionated in the first place is really mute to begins with. And games can be tweaked a tremendous amount during the development cycle; especially via betas.
> >
> >
> > Then Halo 6 or future Halo game’s public testing should be on very early stage of development, earlier than alpha, to remove or add mechanics to the game. Simply removing or adding after the feedback doesn’t work.
>
>
> You’re basing that assumption off of what? Your own expert opinion that we should all just believe? How about I help you with this one by citing the multiple open betas for Halo Wars 2 and the fact that 343i has made multiple changes to its gameplay mechanics during the development cycle directly based off of fan feedback.

Halo Wars 2’s release date was delayed to 2017. 343’s changes, if you are talking about Halo 5, from beta to final are not notable. Is there a mechanic that was removed or added from the beta?

10978

> 2533274867266391;10975:
> > 2625759425619671;10967:
> > > 2533274867266391;10962:
> > > > 2625759425619671;10959:
> > > > > 2533274867266391;10958:
> > > > > > 2625759425619671;10957:
> > > > > > > 2533274867266391;10955:
> > > > > > > > 2533274825044752;10918:
> > > > > > > > > 2533274867266391;10900:
> > > > > > > > > > 2533274825044752;10891:
> > > > > > > > > > > 2535450703392903;10890:
> > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274825044752;10889:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 2535450703392903;10888:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274825044752;10883:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2535431550546249;10877:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274825044752;10874:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2535451091657464;10869:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You know what’d be great? If we forgot about this thread, and it just - blew away
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This thread is a pillow for the 11%ers to scream into. Granted, they’ve been screaming into it for a year now, but it’s cheaper than therapy.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stop dismissing Anti-Sprinters as the bottom precentile. If Sprint wasn’t a big deal this thread would not be the massive back and forth that it has become. Understand that your stance is not the end all of this debate and If enough people don’t want to put up with the shotty movement of Halo 5 then they have every -Yoinking!- right to Assert their dismay until they’re catered to. Stop acting like an over irritated soccer Mom and Let Discussions run their course. Sprint’s affect on Map Flow is not Innocent. No matter how hard you try to convince yourself otherwise
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Granted, it’s been a while since the poll, but it showed that 11% were completely against sprint. That’s not me making it up. If there has been a more scientific poll with an appropriately sized sample base I completely missed it. As far as thread size, how many unique users does it have? How many of them are anti-sprint? This is an echo chamber of like-minded people that’s been going on for a while now. Of course it’s big. That proves nothing in the grand scheme of things.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > You criticize me for asserting an opinion and then go on to state a couple of your own as absolute truths while lecturing me on not allowing a conversation to run it’s course. Do I need to explain why that is just silly/hypocritical?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Plenty of people have eloquently explained why they disagree with sprint and it has contributed to the discussion in a meaningful way. Your response to me was anything but.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > By the way, I feel for the 11%ers. I’ve said it since day one. I don’t think their opinion has any less merit than my own, I just think I’m fortunate enough to be in the majority on this one. And that’s what it all comes down to. I think most halo players these days just want to sprint. If 343 want’s to maximize profits (they’re a business, they are not our bros) then they have to cater to the majority. Some times that’s you, sometimes it’s someone else.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway wasn’t trying to trigger you. I mean, I can see how that whole pillow comment can be construed as snide. I just try to be a little colorful when I post. Bored at work.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > The majority of people who currently play halo are the minority though. That’s the problem.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry, I don’t follow.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Let’s say there are 100k people who regularly play H5. Even if 90% of those people like sprint it doesn’t really matter because there are millions upon millions upon millions of potential halo players out there who’s preferences are largely unknown.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > A poll was conducted closer to launch when more people were playing. The results were overwhelmingly pro-sprint.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > What was that again?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I think the problem here is that you are under the impression that a reddit poll is accurate. It really isn’t, I promise.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Proof speaks louder than words. If I wanted to I could probably go and find all the polls mentioned by the post.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Polls are opinionated in the first place… What’s the point of going down such a rabbit hole? The best way to truly gauge players’ opinions about sprint would be for 343i to let players try the next Halo title in an open beta. 343i can collect feedback after players try playlists with and without sprint.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Sprint is opinionated also, your point?
> > > > >
> > > > > An open beta wont give the developers enough time to make the gameplay decisions needed by the time of release. These type of decisions need to be made very early into the development process.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > My “point,” was that showing proof of a poll that’s opinionated in the first place is really mute to begins with. And games can be tweaked a tremendous amount during the development cycle; especially via betas.
> > >
> > >
> > > Polls are supposed to be opinions on debatable topics. They show a consensus of the general public on the topic being discussed (In this case Halo and sprint). I dont see how thousands of peoples opinions can just be disregarded, I bet if the polls favored differently you wouldnt be saying the same thing.
> > >
> > > Again, if you think a beta can solve all the problems then you are gravely mistaken. Sprint is not a minor change, it needs to be adjusted within the game accordingly. You remove sprint and a huge dynamic of the game changes. Removing sprint is not something you can adjust to within a year. Sprint is something that must be decided upon early in development.
> >
> >
> > Polls only show a census if properly executed. There have been a plethora of polls executed incorrectly such as the Reddit poll which tried to combine flinch/sprint and people later referenced the poll by trying to skew results out of the flinch/sprint poll to support their anti sprint stance… Furthermore those polls have have anywhere from a few dozen to a maximum of a few thousand participants. Halo titles sell units in the millions so that’s hardly acceptable as a sample size of the population- especially since such a large amount of gamers wouldn’t take the time to go onto forums looking for polls like that in the first place… And the ones that would have a problem with something are more likely to go looking for mediums to express their discontent than those who are satisfied with something like sprint.
>
>
> Why does flinch matter? The people voting still stated they did not want sprint, with or without flinch.
>
> The people on the forums are the ones who truly care about the game, these are the people companies should be listening to. If we were to ask the general gaming community then they would vote for sprint without a doubt, however these aren’t the people buying the games so why do their opinions have a big say in what goes on? They have other games to accommodate their needs, why do they need to change Halo to their liking?

Flinch and sprint are two separate game mechanics. Convoluting the two into one poll dilutes the results. The Reddit user should have cited the poll the way it was conducted because the results could have been completely different if the original poll didn’t include anything about flinch. Flinch was a mechanic that could have been removed without regarding sprint at all and was it hated by a lot of people.

10979

> 2625759425619671;10978:
> > 2533274867266391;10975:
> > > 2625759425619671;10967:
> > > > 2533274867266391;10962:
> > > > > 2625759425619671;10959:
> > > > > > 2533274867266391;10958:
> > > > > > > 2625759425619671;10957:
> > > > > > > > 2533274867266391;10955:
> > > > > > > > > 2533274825044752;10918:
> > > > > > > > > > 2533274867266391;10900:
> > > > > > > > > > > 2533274825044752;10891:
> > > > > > > > > > > > 2535450703392903;10890:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274825044752;10889:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2535450703392903;10888:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274825044752;10883:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2535431550546249;10877:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274825044752;10874:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2535451091657464;10869:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You know what’d be great? If we forgot about this thread, and it just - blew away
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This thread is a pillow for the 11%ers to scream into. Granted, they’ve been screaming into it for a year now, but it’s cheaper than therapy.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stop dismissing Anti-Sprinters as the bottom precentile. If Sprint wasn’t a big deal this thread would not be the massive back and forth that it has become. Understand that your stance is not the end all of this debate and If enough people don’t want to put up with the shotty movement of Halo 5 then they have every -Yoinking!- right to Assert their dismay until they’re catered to. Stop acting like an over irritated soccer Mom and Let Discussions run their course. Sprint’s affect on Map Flow is not Innocent. No matter how hard you try to convince yourself otherwise
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Granted, it’s been a while since the poll, but it showed that 11% were completely against sprint. That’s not me making it up. If there has been a more scientific poll with an appropriately sized sample base I completely missed it. As far as thread size, how many unique users does it have? How many of them are anti-sprint? This is an echo chamber of like-minded people that’s been going on for a while now. Of course it’s big. That proves nothing in the grand scheme of things.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You criticize me for asserting an opinion and then go on to state a couple of your own as absolute truths while lecturing me on not allowing a conversation to run it’s course. Do I need to explain why that is just silly/hypocritical?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Plenty of people have eloquently explained why they disagree with sprint and it has contributed to the discussion in a meaningful way. Your response to me was anything but.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > By the way, I feel for the 11%ers. I’ve said it since day one. I don’t think their opinion has any less merit than my own, I just think I’m fortunate enough to be in the majority on this one. And that’s what it all comes down to. I think most halo players these days just want to sprint. If 343 want’s to maximize profits (they’re a business, they are not our bros) then they have to cater to the majority. Some times that’s you, sometimes it’s someone else.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway wasn’t trying to trigger you. I mean, I can see how that whole pillow comment can be construed as snide. I just try to be a little colorful when I post. Bored at work.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > The majority of people who currently play halo are the minority though. That’s the problem.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry, I don’t follow.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Let’s say there are 100k people who regularly play H5. Even if 90% of those people like sprint it doesn’t really matter because there are millions upon millions upon millions of potential halo players out there who’s preferences are largely unknown.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > A poll was conducted closer to launch when more people were playing. The results were overwhelmingly pro-sprint.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > What was that again?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I think the problem here is that you are under the impression that a reddit poll is accurate. It really isn’t, I promise.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Proof speaks louder than words. If I wanted to I could probably go and find all the polls mentioned by the post.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Polls are opinionated in the first place… What’s the point of going down such a rabbit hole? The best way to truly gauge players’ opinions about sprint would be for 343i to let players try the next Halo title in an open beta. 343i can collect feedback after players try playlists with and without sprint.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sprint is opinionated also, your point?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > An open beta wont give the developers enough time to make the gameplay decisions needed by the time of release. These type of decisions need to be made very early into the development process.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > My “point,” was that showing proof of a poll that’s opinionated in the first place is really mute to begins with. And games can be tweaked a tremendous amount during the development cycle; especially via betas.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Polls are supposed to be opinions on debatable topics. They show a consensus of the general public on the topic being discussed (In this case Halo and sprint). I dont see how thousands of peoples opinions can just be disregarded, I bet if the polls favored differently you wouldnt be saying the same thing.
> > > >
> > > > Again, if you think a beta can solve all the problems then you are gravely mistaken. Sprint is not a minor change, it needs to be adjusted within the game accordingly. You remove sprint and a huge dynamic of the game changes. Removing sprint is not something you can adjust to within a year. Sprint is something that must be decided upon early in development.
> > >
> > >
> > > Polls only show a census if properly executed. There have been a plethora of polls executed incorrectly such as the Reddit poll which tried to combine flinch/sprint and people later referenced the poll by trying to skew results out of the flinch/sprint poll to support their anti sprint stance… Furthermore those polls have have anywhere from a few dozen to a maximum of a few thousand participants. Halo titles sell units in the millions so that’s hardly acceptable as a sample size of the population- especially since such a large amount of gamers wouldn’t take the time to go onto forums looking for polls like that in the first place… And the ones that would have a problem with something are more likely to go looking for mediums to express their discontent than those who are satisfied with something like sprint.
> >
> >
> > Why does flinch matter? The people voting still stated they did not want sprint, with or without flinch.
> >
> > The people on the forums are the ones who truly care about the game, these are the people companies should be listening to. If we were to ask the general gaming community then they would vote for sprint without a doubt, however these aren’t the people buying the games so why do their opinions have a big say in what goes on? They have other games to accommodate their needs, why do they need to change Halo to their liking?
>
>
> Flinch and sprint are two separate game mechanics. Convoluting the two into one poll dilutes the results. The Reddit user should have cited the poll the way it was conducted because the results could have been completely different if the original poll didn’t include anything about flinch. Flinch was a mechanic that could have been removed and was it hated by a lot of people.

The people voting still stated they did not want sprint, with or without flinch.

10980

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> > > > > > 2625759425619671;10959:
> > > > > > > 2533274867266391;10958:
> > > > > > > > 2625759425619671;10957:
> > > > > > > > > 2533274867266391;10955:
> > > > > > > > > > 2533274825044752;10918:
> > > > > > > > > > > 2533274867266391;10900:
> > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274825044752;10891:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 2535450703392903;10890:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274825044752;10889:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2535450703392903;10888:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274825044752;10883:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2535431550546249;10877:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274825044752;10874:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2535451091657464;10869:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You know what’d be great? If we forgot about this thread, and it just - blew away
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This thread is a pillow for the 11%ers to scream into. Granted, they’ve been screaming into it for a year now, but it’s cheaper than therapy.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stop dismissing Anti-Sprinters as the bottom precentile. If Sprint wasn’t a big deal this thread would not be the massive back and forth that it has become. Understand that your stance is not the end all of this debate and If enough people don’t want to put up with the shotty movement of Halo 5 then they have every -Yoinking!- right to Assert their dismay until they’re catered to. Stop acting like an over irritated soccer Mom and Let Discussions run their course. Sprint’s affect on Map Flow is not Innocent. No matter how hard you try to convince yourself otherwise
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Granted, it’s been a while since the poll, but it showed that 11% were completely against sprint. That’s not me making it up. If there has been a more scientific poll with an appropriately sized sample base I completely missed it. As far as thread size, how many unique users does it have? How many of them are anti-sprint? This is an echo chamber of like-minded people that’s been going on for a while now. Of course it’s big. That proves nothing in the grand scheme of things.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You criticize me for asserting an opinion and then go on to state a couple of your own as absolute truths while lecturing me on not allowing a conversation to run it’s course. Do I need to explain why that is just silly/hypocritical?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Plenty of people have eloquently explained why they disagree with sprint and it has contributed to the discussion in a meaningful way. Your response to me was anything but.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > By the way, I feel for the 11%ers. I’ve said it since day one. I don’t think their opinion has any less merit than my own, I just think I’m fortunate enough to be in the majority on this one. And that’s what it all comes down to. I think most halo players these days just want to sprint. If 343 want’s to maximize profits (they’re a business, they are not our bros) then they have to cater to the majority. Some times that’s you, sometimes it’s someone else.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway wasn’t trying to trigger you. I mean, I can see how that whole pillow comment can be construed as snide. I just try to be a little colorful when I post. Bored at work.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The majority of people who currently play halo are the minority though. That’s the problem.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry, I don’t follow.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Let’s say there are 100k people who regularly play H5. Even if 90% of those people like sprint it doesn’t really matter because there are millions upon millions upon millions of potential halo players out there who’s preferences are largely unknown.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > A poll was conducted closer to launch when more people were playing. The results were overwhelmingly pro-sprint.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > What was that again?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I think the problem here is that you are under the impression that a reddit poll is accurate. It really isn’t, I promise.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Proof speaks louder than words. If I wanted to I could probably go and find all the polls mentioned by the post.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Polls are opinionated in the first place… What’s the point of going down such a rabbit hole? The best way to truly gauge players’ opinions about sprint would be for 343i to let players try the next Halo title in an open beta. 343i can collect feedback after players try playlists with and without sprint.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Sprint is opinionated also, your point?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > An open beta wont give the developers enough time to make the gameplay decisions needed by the time of release. These type of decisions need to be made very early into the development process.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My “point,” was that showing proof of a poll that’s opinionated in the first place is really mute to begins with. And games can be tweaked a tremendous amount during the development cycle; especially via betas.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Polls are supposed to be opinions on debatable topics. They show a consensus of the general public on the topic being discussed (In this case Halo and sprint). I dont see how thousands of peoples opinions can just be disregarded, I bet if the polls favored differently you wouldnt be saying the same thing.
> > > > >
> > > > > Again, if you think a beta can solve all the problems then you are gravely mistaken. Sprint is not a minor change, it needs to be adjusted within the game accordingly. You remove sprint and a huge dynamic of the game changes. Removing sprint is not something you can adjust to within a year. Sprint is something that must be decided upon early in development.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Polls only show a census if properly executed. There have been a plethora of polls executed incorrectly such as the Reddit poll which tried to combine flinch/sprint and people later referenced the poll by trying to skew results out of the flinch/sprint poll to support their anti sprint stance… Furthermore those polls have have anywhere from a few dozen to a maximum of a few thousand participants. Halo titles sell units in the millions so that’s hardly acceptable as a sample size of the population- especially since such a large amount of gamers wouldn’t take the time to go onto forums looking for polls like that in the first place… And the ones that would have a problem with something are more likely to go looking for mediums to express their discontent than those who are satisfied with something like sprint.
> > >
> > >
> > > Why does flinch matter? The people voting still stated they did not want sprint, with or without flinch.
> > >
> > > The people on the forums are the ones who truly care about the game, these are the people companies should be listening to. If we were to ask the general gaming community then they would vote for sprint without a doubt, however these aren’t the people buying the games so why do their opinions have a big say in what goes on? They have other games to accommodate their needs, why do they need to change Halo to their liking?
> >
> >
> > Flinch and sprint are two separate game mechanics. Convoluting the two into one poll dilutes the results. The Reddit user should have cited the poll the way it was conducted because the results could have been completely different if the original poll didn’t include anything about flinch. Flinch was a mechanic that could have been removed and was it hated by a lot of people.
>
>
> The people voting still stated they did not want sprint, with or without flinch.
> Its not like they would just magically change their mind and vote for keeping sprint if the flinch part of the text was removed.

10981

> 2535456165221911;10977:
> > 2625759425619671;10974:
> > > 2535456165221911;10961:
> > > > 2625759425619671;10959:
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> > > > > > 2625759425619671;10957:
> > > > > > > 2533274867266391;10955:
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> > > > > > > > > 2533274867266391;10900:
> > > > > > > > > > 2533274825044752;10891:
> > > > > > > > > > > 2535450703392903;10890:
> > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274825044752;10889:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 2535450703392903;10888:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274825044752;10883:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2535431550546249;10877:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274825044752;10874:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2535451091657464;10869:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You know what’d be great? If we forgot about this thread, and it just - blew away
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This thread is a pillow for the 11%ers to scream into. Granted, they’ve been screaming into it for a year now, but it’s cheaper than therapy.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stop dismissing Anti-Sprinters as the bottom precentile. If Sprint wasn’t a big deal this thread would not be the massive back and forth that it has become. Understand that your stance is not the end all of this debate and If enough people don’t want to put up with the shotty movement of Halo 5 then they have every -Yoinking!- right to Assert their dismay until they’re catered to. Stop acting like an over irritated soccer Mom and Let Discussions run their course. Sprint’s affect on Map Flow is not Innocent. No matter how hard you try to convince yourself otherwise
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Granted, it’s been a while since the poll, but it showed that 11% were completely against sprint. That’s not me making it up. If there has been a more scientific poll with an appropriately sized sample base I completely missed it. As far as thread size, how many unique users does it have? How many of them are anti-sprint? This is an echo chamber of like-minded people that’s been going on for a while now. Of course it’s big. That proves nothing in the grand scheme of things.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > You criticize me for asserting an opinion and then go on to state a couple of your own as absolute truths while lecturing me on not allowing a conversation to run it’s course. Do I need to explain why that is just silly/hypocritical?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Plenty of people have eloquently explained why they disagree with sprint and it has contributed to the discussion in a meaningful way. Your response to me was anything but.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > By the way, I feel for the 11%ers. I’ve said it since day one. I don’t think their opinion has any less merit than my own, I just think I’m fortunate enough to be in the majority on this one. And that’s what it all comes down to. I think most halo players these days just want to sprint. If 343 want’s to maximize profits (they’re a business, they are not our bros) then they have to cater to the majority. Some times that’s you, sometimes it’s someone else.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway wasn’t trying to trigger you. I mean, I can see how that whole pillow comment can be construed as snide. I just try to be a little colorful when I post. Bored at work.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > The majority of people who currently play halo are the minority though. That’s the problem.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry, I don’t follow.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Let’s say there are 100k people who regularly play H5. Even if 90% of those people like sprint it doesn’t really matter because there are millions upon millions upon millions of potential halo players out there who’s preferences are largely unknown.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > A poll was conducted closer to launch when more people were playing. The results were overwhelmingly pro-sprint.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > What was that again?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I think the problem here is that you are under the impression that a reddit poll is accurate. It really isn’t, I promise.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Proof speaks louder than words. If I wanted to I could probably go and find all the polls mentioned by the post.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Polls are opinionated in the first place… What’s the point of going down such a rabbit hole? The best way to truly gauge players’ opinions about sprint would be for 343i to let players try the next Halo title in an open beta. 343i can collect feedback after players try playlists with and without sprint.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Sprint is opinionated also, your point?
> > > > >
> > > > > An open beta wont give the developers enough time to make the gameplay decisions needed by the time of release. These type of decisions need to be made very early into the development process.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > My “point,” was that showing proof of a poll that’s opinionated in the first place is really mute to begins with. And games can be tweaked a tremendous amount during the development cycle; especially via betas.
> > >
> > >
> > > Then Halo 6 or future Halo game’s public testing should be on very early stage of development, earlier than alpha, to remove or add mechanics to the game. Simply removing or adding after the feedback doesn’t work.
> >
> >
> > You’re basing that assumption off of what? Your own expert opinion that we should all just believe? How about I help you with this one by citing the multiple open betas for Halo Wars 2 and the fact that 343i has made multiple changes to its gameplay mechanics during the development cycle directly based off of fan feedback.
>
>
> Halo Wars 2’s release date was delayed to 2017. 343’s changes, if you are talking about Halo 5, from beta to final are not notable. Is there a mechanic that was removed or added from the beta?

Yeah the leader powers and the way the tree works were all changed due to fan feedback, according to Dan Ayoub. The game types were even tweaked, a ton of monumental changes were applied after the beta which were a direct result of feedback received from the first open beta… And the game wasn’t delayed because of the beta- far as I know February 2017 was always the target month for launch.

10982

<mark>This post has been edited by a moderator. Please do not create alternate accounts to bypass forum bans. Alternate accounts will be permanently banned, and offending users will be subject to both temporary and permanent bans.</mark>

*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

SHOOT2KILL gets all upset that ignored his points. So I respond to them. And he ignores it.
Oh waypoint

10983

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> > > > > > > > > 2625759425619671;10957:
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> > > > > > > > > > > 2533274825044752;10918:
> > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274867266391;10900:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274825044752;10891:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2535450703392903;10890:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274825044752;10889:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2535450703392903;10888:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274825044752;10883:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2535431550546249;10877:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274825044752;10874:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2535451091657464;10869:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You know what’d be great? If we forgot about this thread, and it just - blew away
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This thread is a pillow for the 11%ers to scream into. Granted, they’ve been screaming into it for a year now, but it’s cheaper than therapy.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Stop dismissing Anti-Sprinters as the bottom precentile. If Sprint wasn’t a big deal this thread would not be the massive back and forth that it has become. Understand that your stance is not the end all of this debate and If enough people don’t want to put up with the shotty movement of Halo 5 then they have every -Yoinking!- right to Assert their dismay until they’re catered to. Stop acting like an over irritated soccer Mom and Let Discussions run their course. Sprint’s affect on Map Flow is not Innocent. No matter how hard you try to convince yourself otherwise
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Granted, it’s been a while since the poll, but it showed that 11% were completely against sprint. That’s not me making it up. If there has been a more scientific poll with an appropriately sized sample base I completely missed it. As far as thread size, how many unique users does it have? How many of them are anti-sprint? This is an echo chamber of like-minded people that’s been going on for a while now. Of course it’s big. That proves nothing in the grand scheme of things.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You criticize me for asserting an opinion and then go on to state a couple of your own as absolute truths while lecturing me on not allowing a conversation to run it’s course. Do I need to explain why that is just silly/hypocritical?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Plenty of people have eloquently explained why they disagree with sprint and it has contributed to the discussion in a meaningful way. Your response to me was anything but.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > By the way, I feel for the 11%ers. I’ve said it since day one. I don’t think their opinion has any less merit than my own, I just think I’m fortunate enough to be in the majority on this one. And that’s what it all comes down to. I think most halo players these days just want to sprint. If 343 want’s to maximize profits (they’re a business, they are not our bros) then they have to cater to the majority. Some times that’s you, sometimes it’s someone else.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyway wasn’t trying to trigger you. I mean, I can see how that whole pillow comment can be construed as snide. I just try to be a little colorful when I post. Bored at work.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The majority of people who currently play halo are the minority though. That’s the problem.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sorry, I don’t follow.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let’s say there are 100k people who regularly play H5. Even if 90% of those people like sprint it doesn’t really matter because there are millions upon millions upon millions of potential halo players out there who’s preferences are largely unknown.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > A poll was conducted closer to launch when more people were playing. The results were overwhelmingly pro-sprint.
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> > > > > > > > > > > > What was that again?
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> > > > > > > > > > > I think the problem here is that you are under the impression that a reddit poll is accurate. It really isn’t, I promise.
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> > > > > > > > > > Proof speaks louder than words. If I wanted to I could probably go and find all the polls mentioned by the post.
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> > > > > > > > > Polls are opinionated in the first place… What’s the point of going down such a rabbit hole? The best way to truly gauge players’ opinions about sprint would be for 343i to let players try the next Halo title in an open beta. 343i can collect feedback after players try playlists with and without sprint.
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> > > > > > > > Sprint is opinionated also, your point?
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> > > > > > > > An open beta wont give the developers enough time to make the gameplay decisions needed by the time of release. These type of decisions need to be made very early into the development process.
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> > > > > > > My “point,” was that showing proof of a poll that’s opinionated in the first place is really mute to begins with. And games can be tweaked a tremendous amount during the development cycle; especially via betas.
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> > > > > > Polls are supposed to be opinions on debatable topics. They show a consensus of the general public on the topic being discussed (In this case Halo and sprint). I dont see how thousands of peoples opinions can just be disregarded, I bet if the polls favored differently you wouldnt be saying the same thing.
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> > > > > > Again, if you think a beta can solve all the problems then you are gravely mistaken. Sprint is not a minor change, it needs to be adjusted within the game accordingly. You remove sprint and a huge dynamic of the game changes. Removing sprint is not something you can adjust to within a year. Sprint is something that must be decided upon early in development.
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> > > > > Polls only show a census if properly executed. There have been a plethora of polls executed incorrectly such as the Reddit poll which tried to combine flinch/sprint and people later referenced the poll by trying to skew results out of the flinch/sprint poll to support their anti sprint stance… Furthermore those polls have have anywhere from a few dozen to a maximum of a few thousand participants. Halo titles sell units in the millions so that’s hardly acceptable as a sample size of the population- especially since such a large amount of gamers wouldn’t take the time to go onto forums looking for polls like that in the first place… And the ones that would have a problem with something are more likely to go looking for mediums to express their discontent than those who are satisfied with something like sprint.
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> > > > Why does flinch matter? The people voting still stated they did not want sprint, with or without flinch.
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> > > > The people on the forums are the ones who truly care about the game, these are the people companies should be listening to. If we were to ask the general gaming community then they would vote for sprint without a doubt, however these aren’t the people buying the games so why do their opinions have a big say in what goes on? They have other games to accommodate their needs, why do they need to change Halo to their liking?
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> > > Flinch and sprint are two separate game mechanics. Convoluting the two into one poll dilutes the results. The Reddit user should have cited the poll the way it was conducted because the results could have been completely different if the original poll didn’t include anything about flinch. Flinch was a mechanic that could have been removed and was it hated by a lot of people.
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> > The people voting still stated they did not want sprint, with or without flinch.
> > Its not like they would just magically change their mind and vote for keeping sprint if the flinch part of the text was removed.

Then why couldn’t the Reddit user just cite the poll the way it was conducted. A poll about just sprint is indeed different from a poll about flinch and sprint- with every question tying back into flinch somehow. And that poll wasn’t even something that was cited correctly. It was less than a day old at the time of the video which was linked- so that poll ended a lot differently than those inconclusive results at the time
of that video. No way that poll can be referenced the way that Reddit user tried to referenced- especially when omitted the fact that it was less than a day old.