The sprint discussion thread

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> …whether we all shout about it on here or not lol

I couldn’t agree more on that.

I hope that in time everyone else in this thread can also come to see that; although from what I’ve seen I do personally believe that a lot of people against sprint want to lean on the over-inflation of the issue itself in an effort to try and instigate their desired change to Halo… So I don’t know how many other people here would actually agree with you on that logical point, but I do.

Furthermore along those lines, I’ve even heard some anti sprinters argue that the majority doesn’t matter regarding my earlier point that 343i should try to assess who wants to keep sprint and who wants to remove it. So although your point about going with what the majority wants in Halo 6 makes sense to most; for some reason that sentiment doesn’t seem to be shared by everyone (such as some of the anti sprinters in this thread).

I am really late to this thread and I don’t know if anyone pointed this out, (not reading 500 pages), but at least 1/4th of the SA would be gone if sprint were removed, slide and Spartan charge cannot be done without it. But in some ways, I kinda hope it does go. I feel as if sprint plays a role in why vehicle play has fallen by the wayside.

If some spartan abilities do stay, even if sprint is gone, It should be clamber and thrust, slide could be still used if 343 made it so that when you thrust and crouch, you slide. I think it would a creative way to add the mechanic without sprint being around and would definitely be seen as unique to me.

honestly though, I am surprised that 343 has not added any kind of classic playlist to 5, I mean, people would play, some might come back even, so why not see if people would actually enjoy it? make it a featured playlist for a week and see what the player turn out if like.

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> > …whether we all shout about it on here or not lol
>
>
> I couldn’t agree more on that.
>
> I hope that in time everyone else in this thread can also come to see that; although from what I’ve seen I do personally believe that a lot of people against sprint want to lean on the over-inflation of the issue itself in an effort to try and instigate their desired change to Halo.
>
> Furthermore along those lines, I’ve even heard some anti sprinters argue that the majority doesn’t matter regarding my point that 343i should try to assess who wants to keep sprint and who wants to remove it.

Yeah its obviously a very complicated process and as I’ve said before, I just can’t accept that they’re willingly alienating people away from Halo, they must at least have the metrics to back up their decisions. After all its a business and they have bosses they need to explain their decisions to,

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> > > > Sin do you occupy the same universe as the rest of us.
> > > >
> > > > There have been many proposed solutions. H5 is as good as sprint gets. It sucks.
> > > >
> > > > Sprint CANNOT work with Halo, or you’re compromising zoning, engagements, and pacing.
> > > >
> > > > There is no in-between.
> > >
> > >
> > > Yeah and in the real world you don’t just get your way just because you want something. You don’t win debates either by going into them thinking you’re 100% right without being able to consider the other side’s point of view.
> > >
> > > My point is that sprint can and DOES work in Halo and has worked over the past 3 AAA Halo titles… Maybe it hasn’t work out well enough for you or a few others who seem to be dead set in your anti sprint ways, but that doesn’t mean that sprint hasn’t worked. Your post implies that the community agrees with you but that isn’t true either… This isn’t an issue where the entire community agrees one way or the other either; which you can clearly see that tons of people do want to keep sprint.
> > >
> > > If you think that sprint cannot work for Halo that’s just your opinion. My point is that there can be multiple solutions to this issue… Including some playlists with sprint and some without. At the very least 343i would be able to gauge how popular sprint really is inside the Halo community versus hearing a bunch of back and forth about opinions from a few players in threads such as these.
> >
> >
> > Why do you think sprint has and is working?
>
>
> First- I have often stated and defended my own position that sprint has been and is still working for Halo. Either way the Otis is going to fall on anti-sprinters to justify why they want to see sprint removed because sprint has been in Halo over the past 3 AAA installments to the Halo franchise… Not saying that anti sprinters haven’t been providing opinions on this issue either but those are still opinions nonetheless (though some anti sprinters have tried to aggressively assert their opinions as fact which I do thoroughly disagree with) The mere notion of, “should sprint be taken out,” would be the proposed change at this point, not the other way around.
>
> Second here is a link to a post where I’ve provided a multitude of reasons (27 points) supporting why sprint is good for Halo; including why it has been and still is working for the franchise.
>
> Third, earlier in this thread I cited and discussed an article where 343i’s Executive Producer Josh Holmes explained multiple reasons why 343i thinks that sprint has been and still is working for Halo. Point is that 343i agrees with pro sprinters regarding why sprint is good for Halo as they have, at multiple instances, fervently advocated why Halo’s developers think that sprint has been and still is good for Halo.
>
> Fourth I’ve proposed multiple potential solutions to this issue, probably best explained in this post. My point is that Halo fans should truly be trying to search for a compromise here, versus entering this debate with an, “All or nothing,” stance because that isn’t constructive regarding the issue of sprint. Anti-sprinters want to “crush,” or “destroy,” pro sprint opinions (primarily by citing their own opinions against sprint) but that hasn’t really been working; nor is it constructive regarding this issue. Either way to summarize my suggested compromise; what I’ve stated would be to potentially provide playlists with sprint and playlists without sprint in the next Halo title which should be considered as a compromise. Furthermore this would give 343i the best possible method to analyze data to gauge whether most players want to keep sprint or would prefer to see it removed from Halo. That’s a huge step in the right direction towards compromising on this issue either way, versus this “No, I don’t care about what my fellow Halo fans think regarding sprint, I personally just want it OUT,” approach that a few have been pushing for in this thread.

  1. All your point supporting sprint “working in halo” is your opinion. It’s fine to have that opinion but for someone who I see constantly getting on others for “stating opinions as facts” you sure do that a lot.

  2. It’s not as simple as having some playlists with sprint and some without. The playlist would need seperate maps, different functioning weapons and mechanics. It’s just not feasible.

  3. Even if they could somehow do that, it wouldn’t show preference in regards to sprint. The no sprint lists would immediately draw a disproportionatly high skilled playerbase creating a “tryhard” atmosphere which would snowball and drive out population. This wouldn’t show whether people like or dislike sprint in halo.

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> > >
> > >
> > > …whether we all shout about it on here or not lol
> >
> >
> > I couldn’t agree more on that.
> >
> > I hope that in time everyone else in this thread can also come to see that; although from what I’ve seen I do personally believe that a lot of people against sprint want to lean on the over-inflation of the issue itself in an effort to try and instigate their desired change to Halo.
> >
> > Furthermore along those lines, I’ve even heard some anti sprinters argue that the majority doesn’t matter regarding my point that 343i should try to assess who wants to keep sprint and who wants to remove it.
>
>
> Yeah its obviously a very complicated process and as I’ve said before, I just can’t accept that they’re willingly alienating people away from Halo, they must at least have the metrics to back up their decisions. After all its a business and they have bosses they need to explain their decisions to,

The higest selling game of all time is a game that released in the HD AAA era with n64 graphics and no story. And it was about digging holes. There were no metrics or data suggesting this game would do anything. Hell, the developer didn’t expect anything.

This is a creative medium. If all you are going to do when designing your game is use metrics and focus groups and rely on “what people expect” then you’re just going to have a ho hum, run of the mill pile of…meh. Which is what halo had been for years now.

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> > > > > Sin do you occupy the same universe as the rest of us.
> > > > >
> > > > > There have been many proposed solutions. H5 is as good as sprint gets. It sucks.
> > > > >
> > > > > Sprint CANNOT work with Halo, or you’re compromising zoning, engagements, and pacing.
> > > > >
> > > > > There is no in-between.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Yeah and in the real world you don’t just get your way just because you want something. You don’t win debates either by going into them thinking you’re 100% right without being able to consider the other side’s point of view.
> > > >
> > > > My point is that sprint can and DOES work in Halo and has worked over the past 3 AAA Halo titles… Maybe it hasn’t work out well enough for you or a few others who seem to be dead set in your anti sprint ways, but that doesn’t mean that sprint hasn’t worked. Your post implies that the community agrees with you but that isn’t true either… This isn’t an issue where the entire community agrees one way or the other either; which you can clearly see that tons of people do want to keep sprint.
> > > >
> > > > If you think that sprint cannot work for Halo that’s just your opinion. My point is that there can be multiple solutions to this issue… Including some playlists with sprint and some without. At the very least 343i would be able to gauge how popular sprint really is inside the Halo community versus hearing a bunch of back and forth about opinions from a few players in threads such as these.
> > >
> > >
> > > Why do you think sprint has and is working?
> >
> >
> > First- I have often stated and defended my own position that sprint has been and is still working for Halo. Either way the Otis is going to fall on anti-sprinters to justify why they want to see sprint removed because sprint has been in Halo over the past 3 AAA installments to the Halo franchise… Not saying that anti sprinters haven’t been providing opinions on this issue either but those are still opinions nonetheless (though some anti sprinters have tried to aggressively assert their opinions as fact which I do thoroughly disagree with) The mere notion of, “should sprint be taken out,” would be the proposed change at this point, not the other way around.
> >
> > Second here is a link to a post where I’ve provided a multitude of reasons (27 points) supporting why sprint is good for Halo; including why it has been and still is working for the franchise.
> >
> > Third, earlier in this thread I cited and discussed an article where 343i’s Executive Producer Josh Holmes explained multiple reasons why 343i thinks that sprint has been and still is working for Halo. Point is that 343i agrees with pro sprinters regarding why sprint is good for Halo as they have, at multiple instances, fervently advocated why Halo’s developers think that sprint has been and still is good for Halo.
> >
> > Fourth I’ve proposed multiple potential solutions to this issue, probably best explained in this post. My point is that Halo fans should truly be trying to search for a compromise here, versus entering this debate with an, “All or nothing,” stance because that isn’t constructive regarding the issue of sprint. Anti-sprinters want to “crush,” or “destroy,” pro sprint opinions (primarily by citing their own opinions against sprint) but that hasn’t really been working; nor is it constructive regarding this issue. Either way to summarize my suggested compromise; what I’ve stated would be to potentially provide playlists with sprint and playlists without sprint in the next Halo title which should be considered as a compromise. Furthermore this would give 343i the best possible method to analyze data to gauge whether most players want to keep sprint or would prefer to see it removed from Halo. That’s a huge step in the right direction towards compromising on this issue either way, versus this “No, I don’t care about what my fellow Halo fans think regarding sprint, I personally just want it OUT,” approach that a few have been pushing for in this thread.
>
>
> 1. All your point supporting sprint “working in halo” is your opinion. It’s fine to have that opinion but for someone who I see constantly getting on others for “stating opinions as facts” you sure do that a lot.
>
> 2. It’s not as simple as having some playlists with sprint and some without. The playlist would need seperate maps, different functioning weapons and mechanics. It’s just not feasible.
>
> 3. Even if they could somehow do that, it wouldn’t show preference in regards to sprint. The no sprint lists would immediately draw a disproportionatly high skilled playerbase creating a “tryhard” atmosphere which would snowball and drive out population. This wouldn’t show whether people like or dislike sprint in halo.

  1. This is an opinionated discussion. The very question of “should sprint stay or go,” opens up this discussion to opinions from the fan base. I’ve been completely open to others using their opinions to support their stance either way on this issue. I’ve also concurred that sources do help but remember that a lot of the said “sources,” such as polls about sprint just boil back down to players’ opinions on this issue. My issue has been where some of the anti sprinters have tried to assert their own opinions as fact and push their opinions to discount and discredit pro sprinters. To do that is arguably lunacy in the first place.

  2. It’s completely feasible to have some “classic,” playlists without sprint whilst having some playlists keep sprint. Not only could this be arguably the most accurate way to assess what players want regarding sprint, but it could easily work in the next Halo game. “Classic,” playlists can work because they have been created many times before in many Halo games over the years.

  3. No way you can assert that it wouldn’t work for 343i to try to cater to what the majority of players want in Halo. And I actually think that sprint playlists would draw in the majority of players regardless; but either way 343i could further utilize feedback tools at their disposal (which they currently do anyways) in order to gauge which types of players prefer using sprint (and why they prefer spring) AFTER giving players the ability to choose between playlists with or without sprint. They could then tweak said playlists to cater to what the fans actually want to see in the next Halo game.

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> > > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > …whether we all shout about it on here or not lol
> > >
> > >
> > > I couldn’t agree more on that.
> > >
> > > I hope that in time everyone else in this thread can also come to see that; although from what I’ve seen I do personally believe that a lot of people against sprint want to lean on the over-inflation of the issue itself in an effort to try and instigate their desired change to Halo.
> > >
> > > Furthermore along those lines, I’ve even heard some anti sprinters argue that the majority doesn’t matter regarding my point that 343i should try to assess who wants to keep sprint and who wants to remove it.
> >
> >
> > Yeah its obviously a very complicated process and as I’ve said before, I just can’t accept that they’re willingly alienating people away from Halo, they must at least have the metrics to back up their decisions. After all its a business and they have bosses they need to explain their decisions to,
>
>
> 1) There were no metrics or data suggesting this game would do anything. Hell, the developer didn’t expect anything.
>
> 2) If all you are going to do when designing your game is use metrics and focus groups and rely on “what people expect” then you’re just going to have a ho hum, run of the mill pile of…meh. Which is what halo had been for years now.

  1. Creating and selling video games is a business so catering to fan feedback is a business decision. There are tons and tons of metrics and data available to 343i, including how previous Halo titles have sold, how their populations have held up at different points after release, swaths of fan feedback available from the ongoing Halo Community Feedback (HCF) program which has been going on well before Halo 5 released, AND multiple open betas including the open Halo 5 Beta which 343i utilized in order to collect and assess fan feedback to help develop the best possible Halo experience with Halo 5… Did they meet the mark? I like Halo 5, however I admit that’s debatable… Either way 343i certainly had VAST amounts of metrics and data to help them create a game that would cater to fan feedback and expectations and they even tweaked Halo 5 at multiple points during its development because of such data. I would think that most Halo players do actually want 343i to cater to most Halo players when making decisions, such as whether or not they should keep sprint.

  2. Regardless of the fact that you sort of ramble off in this point, it’s untrue. Catering to fan feedback is extremely beneficial in regards to delivering a game that fans want to play. Whether or not the finished product can cater to everyone is another story, but it still doesn’t mean that it’s not a good idea to include fan feedback (including expectations) as a factor during the development of video games. And Halo has still been successful, despite what you think it has become.

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> I am really late to this thread and I don’t know if anyone pointed this out, (not reading 500 pages), but at least 1/4th of the SA would be gone if sprint were removed, slide and Spartan charge cannot be done without it. But in some ways, I kinda hope it does go. I feel as if sprint plays a role in why vehicle play has fallen by the wayside.
>
> If some spartan abilities do stay, even if sprint is gone, It should be clamber and thrust, slide could be still used if 343 made it so that when you thrust and crouch, you slide. I think it would a creative way to add the mechanic without sprint being around and would definitely be seen as unique to me.
>
> honestly though, I am surprised that 343 has not added any kind of classic playlist to 5, I mean, people would play, some might come back even, so why not see if people would actually enjoy it? make it a featured playlist for a week and see what the player turn out if like.

And? Why do we need these abilities? What do they do to legitimately enhance or help the gameplay? You can do them without SAs, but why do we even need them?

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> AND multiple open betas including the open Halo 5 Beta?

You mean, that one open beta? Lol.

Is this generalization correct?
It feels like the people whom want sprintless Halo are all Halo 2 & 3 tryhards that miss their alt account 50s.
Well…anyway…
Removing Sprint would harm campaign, social playlists, BTB, and Warzone in my opinion, but sweaty ranked arena might as well be made sprintless in H6.

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> Is this generalization correct?
> It feels like the people whom want sprintless Halo are all Halo 2 & 3 tryhards that miss their alt account 50s.
> Well…anyway…
> Removing Sprint would harm campaign, social playlists, BTB, and Warzone in my opinion, but sweaty ranked arena might as well be made sprintless in H6.

Entirely incorrect.

And how would it harm any of those but campaign? Campaign I could see for “immersion’s” sake, however flimsy the reasons for it, but everything else? Lol wot?

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> > > Removing sprint would remove realism from the game.
> >
> >
> > Okay, big questions. Why does Halo, a game that takes place 500 years in the future need to be realistic or cater to realism? On top of that, how is it realistic for a Spartan (A super soldier unlike anything we’ve ever seen/had) to need to put their gun down to run?
>
>
> When designing the game, the creative division thinks about what a spartan realistically should be able to do and what abilities they would have. I’m not talking about our reality, I’m talking about the Halo reality. And realistically a soldier should be able to sprint on the battlefield, especially one in a powerful robot suit. Walking around while bullets are flying past your head doesn’t make sense, anyone would run.
>
> And they need to put their gun down to run because our arms give us the momentum we need to reach a sprint, as well as to maintain balance.

You know, the creative division were justifying sprint more with other games doing it than what a spartan “realistically would do in the Halo reality”.

Even then, had they wanted to they could have ditched sprint, given a short explanation of how a spartan can realistically sprint while maintaining full accuracy and weapons up, and have the exact same result, “What spartans realistically can do”. It doesn’t matter if they want to justify something with lore as they as as in control over that as they are over gameplay.

Want to see what other things spartans would be able to do?
-Prone
-Corner lean
-Blind fire
-Survive a handful of ballistic bullets even while unshielded.
-Be able to engage in proper hand-to-hand combat, with, blocks, counters, grabs and so forth.
-Roll a grenade

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> > > > > > > > I’d just like to point out that Doom, despite being multiplatform, has not had success in the market. Neither in sales or in population.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > It being used as comparison to a “successful” FPS is ludicrous. Most sprint arguments are made because people want Halo to reach Halo 3 levels of popularity. Otherwise, they’d be subjective and opinionated and therefore makes arguments like this irrelevant. Doom has not reached Halo 5 levels of popularity, so using it as a benchmark for what Halo can be is wrong.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > No, but we can use its high BMS as an example of what we want. Doom may have failed for other reasons but people aren’t complaining about the BMS.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > BMS is one part of your issue. Give it as an example of what we want, but the majority of comments list either Overwatch or Doom as a “successful FPS that doesn’t have sprint”. Neither of which are fair comparisons. Ill leave Overwatch for now, but it should be fairly apparent as to why it is not comparable. But DOOM is neither successful nor highly played anymore. Sure, it had a large following right out of the gate, but it has since fallen extremely far in sales charts and population charts. It didnt make as much money as people on here thought it would, it didnt keep a population, and it is therefore not something to benchmark Halo’s success on.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Here’s a small thing though, or couple.
> > > > > Whenever the question of “Other FPS games without sprint” comes up, it boils down to Criterias of what counts or not.
> > > > >
> > > > > The real question asked is pretty much: Name a succesful high rated full of content FPS game with a multiplayer component which aren’t any of the game you’re going to list based on more criterias and excuses I’m adding later so they do not count.
> > > > >
> > > > > I doubt even a succesful full content Original Halo Clonr lile game would count for some arbitrary reason.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I can name many FPS games without sprint. However, except for Doom, most of them contain some form of alternate speed map traversal.
> > > >
> > > > If Doom had come out and been highly successful, like most people on here said it would be, this wouldnt be valid. I would gladly have claimed defeat and backed off. But clearly Doom hasnt been successful. And therefore we are back to having no successful games to compare Halo to.
> > >
> > >
> > > Halo was one of those games with forms of alternate traversal. Teleporters? Man Cannons? Anyone remember those?
> >
> >
> > We still have those.
>
>
> Not in Arena though. Only thing we got is player’s movement.

Quite a.few arena maps have mancannons, but I do agree about teleporters, not nearly enough

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> Is this generalization correct?
> It feels like the people whom want sprintless Halo are all Halo 2 & 3 tryhards that miss their alt account 50s.
> Well…anyway…
> Removing Sprint would harm campaign, social playlists, BTB, and Warzone in my opinion, but sweaty ranked arena might as well be made sprintless in H6.

Just as correct as this one:
It feels like the people who want sprint in Halo are trend kids more interested in the bling-bling than the actual value / substance.

Myes, removing a feature would negatively impact four modes of a game designed for the absense of said feature.

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> > > > > > > > > I’d just like to point out that Doom, despite being multiplatform, has not had success in the market. Neither in sales or in population.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > It being used as comparison to a “successful” FPS is ludicrous. Most sprint arguments are made because people want Halo to reach Halo 3 levels of popularity. Otherwise, they’d be subjective and opinionated and therefore makes arguments like this irrelevant. Doom has not reached Halo 5 levels of popularity, so using it as a benchmark for what Halo can be is wrong.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > No, but we can use its high BMS as an example of what we want. Doom may have failed for other reasons but people aren’t complaining about the BMS.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > BMS is one part of your issue. Give it as an example of what we want, but the majority of comments list either Overwatch or Doom as a “successful FPS that doesn’t have sprint”. Neither of which are fair comparisons. Ill leave Overwatch for now, but it should be fairly apparent as to why it is not comparable. But DOOM is neither successful nor highly played anymore. Sure, it had a large following right out of the gate, but it has since fallen extremely far in sales charts and population charts. It didnt make as much money as people on here thought it would, it didnt keep a population, and it is therefore not something to benchmark Halo’s success on.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Here’s a small thing though, or couple.
> > > > > > Whenever the question of “Other FPS games without sprint” comes up, it boils down to Criterias of what counts or not.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The real question asked is pretty much: Name a succesful high rated full of content FPS game with a multiplayer component which aren’t any of the game you’re going to list based on more criterias and excuses I’m adding later so they do not count.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I doubt even a succesful full content Original Halo Clonr lile game would count for some arbitrary reason.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I can name many FPS games without sprint. However, except for Doom, most of them contain some form of alternate speed map traversal.
> > > > >
> > > > > If Doom had come out and been highly successful, like most people on here said it would be, this wouldnt be valid. I would gladly have claimed defeat and backed off. But clearly Doom hasnt been successful. And therefore we are back to having no successful games to compare Halo to.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Halo was one of those games with forms of alternate traversal. Teleporters? Man Cannons? Anyone remember those?
> > >
> > >
> > > We still have those.
> >
> >
> > Not in Arena though. Only thing we got is player’s movement.
>
>
> Quite a.few arena maps have mancannons, but I do agree about teleporters, not nearly enough

Halo CE had ladders, which were removed in Halo 2 due to fluidity reasons. It also had teleporters
Halo 2 featured teleporters and introduced us to travelators / conveyor belts. It also had a map with an automatic elevator.
Halo 3 moved away from teleporters in favor of Man Cannons and a portable “grav lift”.

We still have uncharted territory in terms of Map traversal assets, and things to revisit.

I don’t recall many maps featuring man cannons or teleporters which weren’t made to gain elevation but rather cover longer distances, in the arena ones.

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> > 2533274839169051;10793:
> > Is this generalization correct?
> > It feels like the people whom want sprintless Halo are all Halo 2 & 3 tryhards that miss their alt account 50s.
> > Well…anyway…
> > Removing Sprint would harm campaign, social playlists, BTB, and Warzone in my opinion, but sweaty ranked arena might as well be made sprintless in H6.
>
>
> Entirely incorrect.
>
> And how would it harm any of those but campaign? Campaign I could see for “immersion’s” sake, however flimsy the reasons for it, but everything else? Lol wot?

Sprintless makes maps too small for my tastes, BTB would end up Medium Team Battle, Campaign would have to be full of hogs and gooses to get around or you’ll end up walking for days like what happens when the marines drive off without you on mission or worse it’s one like the Library, Warzone was made to make BTB seem tiny so sprintless would just shrink it too much, and Social should be like kids running around during recess/lunch break so sprintless turns that fun on it’s head and we end up in boot camp running drills.
That’s just the way I see it.

> 2533274839169051;10799:
> > 2533274886529017;10794:
> > > 2533274839169051;10793:
> > > Is this generalization correct?
> > > It feels like the people whom want sprintless Halo are all Halo 2 & 3 tryhards that miss their alt account 50s.
> > > Well…anyway…
> > > Removing Sprint would harm campaign, social playlists, BTB, and Warzone in my opinion, but sweaty ranked arena might as well be made sprintless in H6.
> >
> >
> > Entirely incorrect.
> >
> > And how would it harm any of those but campaign? Campaign I could see for “immersion’s” sake, however flimsy the reasons for it, but everything else? Lol wot?
>
>
> Sprintless makes maps too small for my tastes, BTB would end up Medium Team Battle, Campaign would have to be full of hogs and gooses to get around or you’ll end up walking for days like what happens when the marines drive off without you on mission or worse it’s one like the Library, Warzone was made to make BTB seem tiny so sprintless would just shrink it too much, and Social should be like kids running around during recess/lunch break so sprintless turns that fun on it’s head and we end up in boot camp running drills.
> That’s just the way I see it.

There were medium maps before sprint was introduced. There were huge BTB maps before sprint was introduced.
So sprint is a band-aid solution to an entirely unrelated campaign design and AI issue?
Warzone map size is humongous, and even that size could be kept.
Why would no-sprint suddenly go from recess to military drill?

> 2533274839169051;10793:
> Sprintless makes maps too small for my tastes, BTB would end up Medium Team Battle, Campaign would have to be full of hogs and gooses to get around or you’ll end up walking for days like what happens when the marines drive off without you on mission or worse it’s one like the Library, Warzone was made to make BTB seem tiny so sprintless would just shrink it too much, and Social should be like kids running around during recess/lunch break so sprintless turns that fun on it’s head and we end up in boot camp running drills.
> That’s just the way I see it.

But they weren’t small in the beginning? They were medium sized. Think the smallest we got was Heretic/Midship, and that was big enough to support 8 people no problem. I don’t get the campaign complaint, given it didn’t have much to do with the campaign map sizing really, but AIs driving off in areas large enough to accomodate vehicles. And The Library? That mission looks big because of the open areas around the center, but is in reality, super narrow and small around the areas you can walk in. Warzone’s map size could arguably be kept over BTB’s, given the mode supports more players and will need to be larger for that. There’d just be less deadzones to the map. :stuck_out_tongue: And I don’t get the final point. Recess for social? Boot camp for comp? What?

> 2533274795123910;10800:
> There were medium maps before sprint was introduced. There were huge BTB maps before sprint was introduced.
> So sprint is a band-aid solution to an entirely unrelated campaign design and AI issue?
> Warzone map size is humongous, and even that size could be kept.
> Why would no-sprint suddenly go from recess to military drill?

Exactly.

Does anyone remember Water Works? That map was HUGE for it’s time, and took some time to get around if you didn’t have a Ghost/Banchee/Warthog and honestly is probably one of my favorite BTB maps. However, it forced you to think about your engagements, since your walk back from respawn would be slightly lengthy, and ended up making some firefights really memorable. A map like Zanzaibar has also never been re-attempted … did anyone ever have an issue with getting around Zanzaibar? There definitely wasn’t any sprint there… yet I don’t remember ever having an issue stealing the flag from inside the base.

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> > > > 2533274859193782;10747:
> > > > Sin do you occupy the same universe as the rest of us.
> > > >
> > > > There have been many proposed solutions. H5 is as good as sprint gets. It sucks.
> > > >
> > > > Sprint CANNOT work with Halo, or you’re compromising zoning, engagements, and pacing.
> > > >
> > > > There is no in-between.

I almost let this go. Almost. I linked arguments to you and you said something about ‘data mining’ but seeing as how you’re acting like you ever responded to me with gameplay ideas, I figured out I’d dust off the ole’keyboard for another go around on the train.

Immersion/Lore –
Boys boys boys, someone wants to talk about immersing the player with a singular mechanic. I’ll wrap immersion and lore into one point because they fit under many of the same arguments. Now, yes Spartans can run extraordinarily fast. Except they were always described as being hauntingly accurate while moving at a near sprinting speed. See Halo: Evolutions for a specific example. Now lore wise, sprint makes no sense AT ALL in Halo. Shields tied to the ability to sprint? Laughable. Lore shouldn’t effect gameplay, it’s bad game design. Because in the LORE Linda was able to use a sniper to shoot and kill multiple banshee pilots with one shot a piece while hanging by one arm. Also in lore a Brute shot would overwhelm a Spartans shields in ONE hit and incapacitate or kill them. Yet the Brute shot doesn’t do that in any MP. Immersion is a straw man argument for having sprint in, because many players in the past have felt like Spartans because they were always moving at a rapid pace and remained accurate and lethal.

Predictive Combat –
Gameplay wise, this is extremely important in Halo. Map flow is dependent on this. Having the randomness of sprint involved in the way a map is built causes huge areas of dead space in maps, or ‘no mans land’ because they are too open. Players were sneaky, hard to predict, and always kept others on their toes in H1-3 by taking routes at different speeds, doubling back, and standing at a corner waiting for their teammates to create a distraction before moving around said corner. Sprint reduces the creativity in many routes because they have to be stretched and flattened to accommodate sprint, nullifying the overall creativity a player has. If you need a good example of unpredictable gameplay, watch Patch play Halo CE. Or Pistola in Halo 3.
Sprint Should be in an FPS –
You already admitted defeat in this, but lets take a moment and look at the most successful FPS of all time. CS:GO, it’s never had sprint and remains one of the top FPS of all time. Now, a better more Halo-esque game to refer to would be Unreal Tournament or Quake. Neither of these games have sprint, but have extraordinarily fast BMS, on top of other ways to move faster with weapons and techniques. Those games don’t need sprint because their players are moving so fast they feel like a super powered soldier who is able to zip around a battlefield without ever lowering their weapons.
Majority Rules –
When H4 came out Ghostayame did a poll about Sprint, and no sprint overwhelmingly won. Now, the real point of the matter is this. If 90% of the population disliked sprint or are indifferent, that means 10% likes sprint. What happens if 90% of the 90% leave? The 10% who like sprint are now the majority, and with the people who play either way, anti-sprinters are now outnumbered. Halo fans don’t speak in polls, they speak with their wallets and play time.

Player Choice –
Players have always had the ability to choose how fast they move. Joysticks allow for mitigated movement. A player can crouch walk. A player can not move, which is a viable option in some situations.
Past Precedence –
H3 was a HUGE hit with the MLG community. It had the highest number of competitors and events sold out in seconds, SECONDS. Every Halo game with sprint, save the MLG Dallas H4 Exhibition has struggled to sell half their available passes. Prime example HCS Orange County had 24 teams sign up. That’s the lowest we’ve ever had for an official Halo Open event.