The sprint discussion thread

Games Halo 5: Guardians
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> I honestly don’t get the impression we’re playing the same game here. You can very easily not sprint and get away with it, in fact you have a distinct advantage because your weapon is always at the ready whereas there other person sprinting will have a delay whilst they ready up their weapon. And if you’ve got someone to no shields how can they escape any easier with spring? Yes they can back off, but they can’t spring BECAUSE YOURE SHOOTING THEM.

If they back off, break your line of sight, and turn the opposite way before you can reach them, they can reach terminal velocity quicker than you’d expect, and speed off, because you’re not able to shoot them. This happens commonly on maps like Empire, Plaza and Eden, for example, but it’s prevalent on so many others, too.

> 2533274838073795;10752:
> They can back off all they want but if you’re actively engaging them they can’t sprint and in my experience never do, because, you guessed, I’m shooting them. I’ve never once seen someone escape using sprint where they otherwise couldn’t have done anyway without it. Again I just can’t help but get the feeling people are just not landing enough shots and giving them a chance to run in the first place and using sprint as an excuse.

It doesn’t matter if you’re actively engaging them. Due to many of the map’s segmented natures and the limited lines of sight, there’re only a few areas where you can get into a truly constant gunfight, such as yard on Plaza, or the outside on Empire. Or the same area located on Eden. With that, there’re many opportunities where players will back off before you’re able to land a third shot, if they’re losing the gunfight. It’s a common thing at higher level play, when lethality is much more prevalent and people are consistently landing more shots. It’s not something you see in lower level play, where people just tend to rush you without any thought for self-preservation or escape, nor position themselves to be able to run off/escape, should they need to.

> 2533274838073795;10752:
> It’s funny cos you hear these stories of people escaping in the middle of a hellish firefight by some how miraculously sprinting away, yet I nor anyone I know ever actually sees it happen, seemingly only die hard fans of the older games “notice” these happenings. By the way if you truly have superior positioning and shooting, your enemies would not be in a position to sprint away, unless they are near a corner or something in which case they can escape without sprinting, so again, BS.

Maybe you don’t see it happen because you’re the one actually doing it. :stuck_out_tongue: And it’s not BS, because the amount of corners in these maps due to the abilities and their implementation is insane. Look at maps like Rig, Plaza, or Empire, to name some. There’s an insane amount of corners and very limited open space to combat someone without them being able to break your line of sight.

Even in the superior positions, it’s super easy to break LoS with someone, thus giving sprint an edge, since you only need to break LoS for a split second to gain that speed boost and be able to run off, no shields or not.

10765

Removing sprint would remove realism from the game.

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> Removing sprint would remove realism from the game.

Okay, big questions. Why does Halo, a game that takes place 500 years in the future need to be realistic or cater to realism? On top of that, how is it realistic for a Spartan (A super soldier unlike anything we’ve ever seen/had) to need to put their gun down to run?

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> > > Sin do you occupy the same universe as the rest of us.
> > >
> > > There have been many proposed solutions. H5 is as good as sprint gets. It sucks.
> > >
> > > Sprint CANNOT work with Halo, or you’re compromising zoning, engagements, and pacing.
> > >
> > > There is no in-between.
> >
> >
> > Yeah and in the real world you don’t just get your way just because you want something. You don’t win debates either by going into them thinking you’re 100% right without being able to consider the other side’s point of view.
> >
> > My point is that sprint can and DOES work in Halo and has worked over the past 3 AAA Halo titles… Maybe it hasn’t work out well enough for you or a few others who seem to be dead set in your anti sprint ways, but that doesn’t mean that sprint hasn’t worked. Your post implies that the community agrees with you but that isn’t true either… This isn’t an issue where the entire community agrees one way or the other either; which you can clearly see that tons of people do want to keep sprint.
> >
> > If you think that sprint cannot work for Halo that’s just your opinion. My point is that there can be multiple solutions to this issue… Including some playlists with sprint and some without. At the very least 343i would be able to gauge how popular sprint really is inside the Halo community versus hearing a bunch of back and forth about opinions from a few players in threads such as these.
>
>
> Why do you think sprint has and is working?

First- I have often stated and defended my own position that sprint has been and is still working for Halo. Either way the Otis is going to fall on anti-sprinters to justify why they want to see sprint removed because sprint has been in Halo over the past 3 AAA installments to the Halo franchise… Not saying that anti sprinters haven’t been providing opinions on this issue either but those are still opinions nonetheless (though some anti sprinters have tried to aggressively assert their opinions as fact which I do thoroughly disagree with) The mere notion of, “should sprint be taken out,” would be the proposed change at this point, not the other way around.

Second here is a link to a post where I’ve provided a multitude of reasons (27 points) supporting why sprint is good for Halo; including why it has been and still is working for the franchise.

Third, earlier in this thread I cited and discussed an article where 343i’s Executive Producer Josh Holmes explained multiple reasons why 343i thinks that sprint has been and still is working for Halo. Point is that 343i agrees with pro sprinters regarding why sprint is good for Halo as they have, at multiple instances, fervently advocated why Halo’s developers think that sprint has been and still is good for Halo.

Fourth I’ve proposed multiple potential solutions to this issue, probably best explained in this post. My point is that Halo fans should truly be trying to search for a compromise here, versus entering this debate with an, “All or nothing,” stance because that isn’t constructive regarding the issue of sprint. Anti-sprinters want to “crush,” or “destroy,” pro sprint opinions (primarily by citing their own opinions against sprint) but that hasn’t really been working; nor is it constructive regarding this issue. Either way to summarize my suggested compromise; what I’ve stated would be to potentially provide playlists with sprint and playlists without sprint in the next Halo title which should be considered as a compromise. Furthermore this would give 343i the best possible method to analyze data to gauge whether most players want to keep sprint or would prefer to see it removed from Halo. That’s a huge step in the right direction towards compromising on this issue either way, versus this “No, I don’t care about what my fellow Halo fans think regarding sprint, I personally just want it OUT,” approach that a few have been pushing for in this thread.

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> > 2533274859193782;10747:
> > Sin do you occupy the same universe as the rest of us.
> >
> > There have been many proposed solutions. H5 is as good as sprint gets. It sucks.
> >
> > Sprint CANNOT work with Halo, or you’re compromising zoning, engagements, and pacing.
> >
> > There is no in-between.
>
>
> Yeah and in the real world you don’t just get your way just because you want something. You don’t win debates either by going into them thinking you’re 100% right without being able to consider the other side’s point of view.
>
> My point is that sprint can and DOES work in Halo and has worked over the past 3 AAA Halo titles… Maybe it hasn’t work out well enough for you or a few others who seem to be dead set in your anti sprint ways, but that doesn’t mean that sprint hasn’t worked. Your post implies that the community agrees with you but that isn’t true either… This isn’t an issue where the entire community agrees one way or the other either; which you can clearly see that tons of people do want to keep sprint.
>
> If you think that sprint cannot work for Halo that’s just your opinion. My point is that there can be multiple solutions to this issue… Including some playlists with sprint and some without. At the very least 343i would be able to gauge how popular sprint really is inside the Halo community versus hearing a bunch of back and forth about opinions from a few players in threads such as these.

It’s a good thing video games aren’t the real world, isn’t it? : )

and yes, it’s worked so well for Halo the last 3 years that our community population is low and the sales for H5 are at an all time low for the franchise. These new gimmicks have only driven people away.

In what way has sprint worked that no sprint didn’t? Because I can give a hell of a lot of reasons why its failed. Name one aspect of the game sprint has improved in any meaningful way. What kind of benefit has it added the series? I await your enlightening response.

This classic playlist vs default playlist nonsense only will drive the already divided community further apart. One or the other. Compromising your design by double dipping harms the game.

And so help me if the only answer that can be provided for sprint’s continued addition is immersion I will random spawn out of this Earth.

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> > 2533274838073795;10752:
> > I honestly don’t get the impression we’re playing the same game here. You can very easily not sprint and get away with it, in fact you have a distinct advantage because your weapon is always at the ready whereas there other person sprinting will have a delay whilst they ready up their weapon. And if you’ve got someone to no shields how can they escape any easier with spring? Yes they can back off, but they can’t spring BECAUSE YOURE SHOOTING THEM.
>
>
> If they back off, break your line of sight, and turn the opposite way before you can reach them, they can reach terminal velocity quicker than you’d expect, and speed off, because you’re not able to shoot them. This happens commonly on maps like Empire, Plaza and Eden, for example, but it’s prevalent on so many others, too.
>
>
> > 2533274838073795;10752:
> > They can back off all they want but if you’re actively engaging them they can’t sprint and in my experience never do, because, you guessed, I’m shooting them. I’ve never once seen someone escape using sprint where they otherwise couldn’t have done anyway without it. Again I just can’t help but get the feeling people are just not landing enough shots and giving them a chance to run in the first place and using sprint as an excuse.
>
>
> It doesn’t matter if you’re actively engaging them. Due to many of the map’s segmented natures and the limited lines of sight, there’re only a few areas where you can get into a truly constant gunfight, such as yard on Plaza, or the outside on Empire. Or the same area located on Eden. With that, there’re many opportunities where players will back off before you’re able to land a third shot, if they’re losing the gunfight. It’s a common thing at higher level play, when lethality is much more prevalent and people are consistently landing more shots. It’s not something you see in lower level play, where people just tend to rush you without any thought for self-preservation or escape, nor position themselves to be able to run off/escape, should they need to.
>
>
> > 2533274838073795;10752:
> > It’s funny cos you hear these stories of people escaping in the middle of a hellish firefight by some how miraculously sprinting away, yet I nor anyone I know ever actually sees it happen, seemingly only die hard fans of the older games “notice” these happenings. By the way if you truly have superior positioning and shooting, your enemies would not be in a position to sprint away, unless they are near a corner or something in which case they can escape without sprinting, so again, BS.
>
>
> Maybe you don’t see it happen because you’re the one actually doing it. :stuck_out_tongue: And it’s not BS, because the amount of corners in these maps due to the abilities and their implementation is insane. Look at maps like Rig, Plaza, or Empire, to name some. There’s an insane amount of corners and very limited open space to combat someone without them being able to break your line of sight.
>
> Even in the superior positions, it’s super easy to break LoS with someone, thus giving sprint an edge, since you only need to break LoS for a split second to gain that speed boost and be able to run off, no shields or not.

I don’t run away from encounters tbh I nearly always shoot my way out (or try), and I feel like a lot of your issue are down to map design rather than sprint. If someone can back away around a corner (imagine there’s no sprint), then you wouldn’t have the pace to be able to catch up and get the last shot in anyway, unless there’s a higher base movement speed in which case they’re as good as sprinting away anyway with you as good as sprinting after them.
I dunno maybe I just don’t happen to see it, but when I play slayer people don’t just sprint away because most of the time you’re only going to run into anothe player except you’re no shields and weapon down. The only alternative would be to wait a while to sprint so your shields recharge, but by that time the person who initially engaged you would have caught up and finished you off. Yes, I agree you get up to speed quickly, but the same cannot be said of shield recharge rate, and if someone gets you to no shields and you sprint off in slayer, you’re more than likely just going to dropped by someone else.

In my experience I just haven’t seen this happen, honestly. I play around gold/platinum level, occasionally diamond and typically get 45+ accuracy if you need a gauge on my skill level. (My overall accuracy is lower cos I wasn’t very good for the first half a year)

Edit: How do you feel about thrusters then? Cos that’s a pretty good way to let people quickly and easily break line of sight and get behind cover

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> > Removing sprint would remove realism from the game.
>
>
> Okay, big questions. Why does Halo, a game that takes place 500 years in the future need to be realistic or cater to realism? On top of that, how is it realistic for a Spartan (A super soldier unlike anything we’ve ever seen/had) to need to put their gun down to run?

When designing the game, the creative division thinks about what a spartan realistically should be able to do and what abilities they would have. I’m not talking about our reality, I’m talking about the Halo reality. And realistically a soldier should be able to sprint on the battlefield, especially one in a powerful robot suit. Walking around while bullets are flying past your head doesn’t make sense, anyone would run.

And they need to put their gun down to run because our arms give us the momentum we need to reach a sprint, as well as to maintain balance.

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> > 2533274886529017;10766:
> > > 2533274990620516;10765:
> > > Removing sprint would remove realism from the game.
> >
> >
> > Okay, big questions. Why does Halo, a game that takes place 500 years in the future need to be realistic or cater to realism? On top of that, how is it realistic for a Spartan (A super soldier unlike anything we’ve ever seen/had) to need to put their gun down to run?
>
>
> When designing the game, the creative division thinks about what a spartan realistically should be able to do and what abilities they would have. I’m not talking about our reality, I’m talking about the Halo reality. And realistically a soldier should be able to sprint on the battlefield, especially one in a powerful robot suit. Walking around while bullets are flying past your head doesn’t make sense, anyone would run.
>
> And they need to put their gun down to run because in order to gain proper momentum to sprint we need to use our arms, as well as to maintain balance.

^This entirely. You cant run properly with your arms raised like that, its totally incorrect posture for the job lol

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> > > Sin do you occupy the same universe as the rest of us.
> > >
> > > There have been many proposed solutions. H5 is as good as sprint gets. It sucks.
> > >
> > > Sprint CANNOT work with Halo, or you’re compromising zoning, engagements, and pacing.
> > >
> > > There is no in-between.
> >
> >
> > Yeah and in the real world you don’t just get your way just because you want something. You don’t win debates either by going into them thinking you’re 100% right without being able to consider the other side’s point of view.
> >
> > My point is that sprint can and DOES work in Halo and has worked over the past 3 AAA Halo titles… Maybe it hasn’t work out well enough for you or a few others who seem to be dead set in your anti sprint ways, but that doesn’t mean that sprint hasn’t worked. Your post implies that the community agrees with you but that isn’t true either… This isn’t an issue where the entire community agrees one way or the other either; which you can clearly see that tons of people do want to keep sprint.
> >
> > If you think that sprint cannot work for Halo that’s just your opinion. My point is that there can be multiple solutions to this issue… Including some playlists with sprint and some without. At the very least 343i would be able to gauge how popular sprint really is inside the Halo community versus hearing a bunch of back and forth about opinions from a few players in threads such as these.
>
>
> 1) It’s a good thing video games aren’t the real world, isn’t it? : )
>
> 2) and yes, it’s worked so well for Halo the last 3 years that our community population is low and the sales for H5 are at an all time low for the franchise. These new gimmicks have only driven people away.
>
> 3) In what way has sprint worked that no sprint didn’t? Because I can give a hell of a lot of reasons why its failed. Name one aspect of the game sprint has improved in any meaningful way. What kind of benefit has it added the series? I await your enlightening response.
>
> 4) This classic playlist vs default playlist nonsense only will drive the already divided community further apart. One or the other.
>
> 5) Compromising your design by double dipping harms the game’s design.
>
> 6) And so help me if the only answer that can be provided for sprint’s continued addition is immersion I will random spawn out of this Earth.

  1. Video games are played and enjoyed by people in the real world… Not sure where you’re even going with this one.

  2. That’s implying that community population in Halo is directly attributed to the issue sprint. Whether or not there’s any truth to the notion that any of Halo’s population is tied to sprint in unclear, but no one can prove that nor can they deny that competition from other games and developers plays a huge role in population for FPS titles (Along with multiple other good reasons that impact population in video games; so Halo’s population can’t be summed up by attributed everything to one game play mechanic).

  3. For the sake on not repeating myself, here you can find 27 points that I’ve already given in this thread advocating for keeping sprint in Halo. Furthermore as you can also see, earlier in this thread I’ve even linked an article citing 343i’s Executive Producer: Josh Holmes when he explained why 343i thinks that sprint is good for Halo.

  4. You’re suggesting that sprint has anything to do with dividing the community. Other than this and a few previous threads here and there, I’ve never even heard of anyone quitting Halo for sprint (or even spoke to anyone that dislikes sprint in Halo at all); nor have I seen any shred of evidence to support this. People that I’ve played with over the years discuss multiple things that they either like or don’t like about Halo, yet NOT A ONE has ever once told me that they think sprint hurts Halo. Furthermore the change that you’re suggesting here would be to remove sprint at this point (since sprint has been in the past 3 AAA Halo installments) so I would argue that removing this facet of Halo’s gameplay now would drive even more people away than by keeping sprint.

  5. Agreed that compromising design could hurt gameplay, but keeping an element of gameplay that’s been in the last 3 AAA Halo titles isn’t compromising anything… How popular you may or may not think Halo is these days doesn’t detract from the fact that it’s still been hugely successful in the 6 years or so that sprint has continued to be a part of Halo’s gameplay. Again, removing sprint to satisfy a few would be the change at this point; thereby removing sprint would actually be compromising the design (not the other way around as you’re implying).

  6. Refer to point #3, as not only have I provided multiple other reasons why keeping sprint is good for Halo and 343i’s Executive Producer agrees that keeping sprint is good for Halo as he also provided multiple reasons advocating for sprint in Halo.

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> I don’t run away from encounters tbh I nearly always shoot my way out (or try), and I feel like a lot of your issue are down to map design rather than sprint. If someone can back away around a corner (imagine there’s no sprint), then you wouldn’t have the pace to be able to catch up and get the last shot in anyway, unless there’s a higher base movement speed in which case they’re as good as sprinting away anyway with you as good as sprinting after them.

Yeah, and you know what impacts map design? Sprint. You know what sprint’s given when the map’s designed around it and other crutch abilities? An advantage over base movement speed. If someone backed away in an older Halo, it wouldn’t have mattered. The map is small enough, their speed was the same as mine, and shield recharge rate was slow enough that I could nade bounce a frag off a wall and catch them off guard and pin them down, and run at them with my gun up, while they couldn’t. The difference is, when the BMS is high enough to where sprint isn’t needed, both players can engage when one runs, unlike now, where to chase, you need to put your gun down, or you have no hope in following them without them splitting the distance quickly, which is amplified by how big most maps are now, horizontally and vertically to accommodate sprint and other abilities.

> 2533274838073795;10752:
> I dunno maybe I just don’t happen to see it, but when I play slayer people don’t just sprint away because most of the time you’re only going to run into anothe player except you’re no shields and weapon down. The only alternative would be to wait a while to sprint so your shields recharge, but by that time the person who initially engaged you would have caught up and finished you off. Yes, I agree you get up to speed quickly, but the same cannot be said of shield recharge rate, and if someone gets you to no shields and you sprint off in slayer, you’re more than likely just going to dropped by someone else.

The first point’s an assumption, not a guarantee. When you run, due to how the map is, you have no guarantee that you will or will not run into an enemy, thanks to the map’s unpredictable nature. You can make a potentially sound judgment based on where your team is, but because of how many lanes of engagement there are, it’s almost impossible to keep a tab on the enemy and automatically assume you’ll just run into one when you sprint away. And shield recharge rate, much like sprint, is super quick. Faster than any other Halo ever. It’s entirely the same as sprint in regards to quickness.

> 2533274838073795;10752:
> In my experience I just haven’t seen this happen, honestly. I play around gold/platinum level, occasionally diamond and typically get 45+ accuracy if you need a gauge on my skill level. (My overall accuracy is lower cos I wasn’t very good for the first half a year)

I mean, not to patronize you, but gold/platinum playstyles are nothing like Onyx to Champ playstyles. People who’re super high level know when to break off an engagement and when to not do so and finish it. And they’re much more prone to breaking it off and not finishing the fight if they’re down so much as one shot unless they get reckless, or have a weapon like the Storm Rifle with them. Watch some ESL rebroadcasts, or certain high level twitch streamers. Sprinting away is super common in high level play.

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> > 2533274838073795;10752:
> > I don’t run away from encounters tbh I nearly always shoot my way out (or try), and I feel like a lot of your issue are down to map design rather than sprint. If someone can back away around a corner (imagine there’s no sprint), then you wouldn’t have the pace to be able to catch up and get the last shot in anyway, unless there’s a higher base movement speed in which case they’re as good as sprinting away anyway with you as good as sprinting after them.
>
>
> Yeah, and you know what impacts map design? Sprint. You know what sprint’s given when the map’s designed around it and other crutch abilities? An advantage over base movement speed. If someone backed away in an older Halo, it wouldn’t have mattered. The map is small enough, their speed was the same as mine, and shield recharge rate was slow enough that I could nade bounce a frag off a wall and catch them off guard and pin them down, and run at them with my gun up, while they couldn’t. The difference is, when the BMS is high enough to where sprint isn’t needed, both players can engage when one runs, unlike now, where to chase, you need to put your gun down, or you have no hope in following them without them splitting the distance quickly, which is amplified by how big most maps are now, horizontally and vertically to accommodate sprint and other abilities.
>
>
> > 2533274838073795;10752:
> > I dunno maybe I just don’t happen to see it, but when I play slayer people don’t just sprint away because most of the time you’re only going to run into anothe player except you’re no shields and weapon down. The only alternative would be to wait a while to sprint so your shields recharge, but by that time the person who initially engaged you would have caught up and finished you off. Yes, I agree you get up to speed quickly, but the same cannot be said of shield recharge rate, and if someone gets you to no shields and you sprint off in slayer, you’re more than likely just going to dropped by someone else.
>
>
> The first point’s an assumption, not a guarantee. When you run, due to how the map is, you have no guarantee that you will or will not run into an enemy, thanks to the map’s unpredictable nature. You can make a potentially sound judgment based on where your team is, but because of how many lanes of engagement there are, it’s almost impossible to keep a tab on the enemy and automatically assume you’ll just run into one when you sprint away. And shield recharge rate, much like sprint, is super quick. Faster than any other Halo ever. It’s entirely the same as sprint in regards to quickness.
>
>
> > 2533274838073795;10752:
> > In my experience I just haven’t seen this happen, honestly. I play around gold/platinum level, occasionally diamond and typically get 45+ accuracy if you need a gauge on my skill level. (My overall accuracy is lower cos I wasn’t very good for the first half a year)
>
>
> I mean, not to patronize you, but gold/platinum playstyles are nothing like Onyx to Champ playstyles. People who’re super high level know when to break off an engagement and when to not do so and finish it. And they’re much more prone to breaking it off and not finishing the fight if they’re down so much as one shot unless they get reckless, or have a weapon like the Storm Rifle with them. Watch some ESL rebroadcasts, or certain high level twitch streamers. Sprinting away is super common in high level play.

That’s the thing though, few people are that skill level, I feel as though I represent a good middle ground (if not a bit above average), and that’s what 343 should concentrate on rather than how the pro players utilise certain abilities and situations.
Also it seems to me like the thrusters are a worse offender in a lot of the scenarios you mention :stuck_out_tongue:

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> 2533274990620516;10765:
> When designing the game, the creative division thinks about what a spartan realistically should be able to do and what abilities they would have. I’m not talking about our reality, I’m talking about the Halo reality. And realistically a soldier should be able to sprint on the battlefield, especially one in a powerful robot suit. Walking around while bullets are flying past your head doesn’t make sense, anyone would run.
>
> And they need to put their gun down to run because our arms give us the momentum we need to reach a sprint, as well as to maintain balance.

But here’s the thing, Spartans always were running canonically, in game, there was just no feedback on it, past the third person animation and how you walked in relation to the people and enemies around you. But past that, you know what a Spartan can also do? Dual wield a Mongoose and an SMG as a shield and weapon combo. But we can’t do that in game, because it’s not only unbalanced as all beat grunts, but because lore should never be the reason for a certain mechanic’s inclusion (Bar aesthetic reasons, like how things look), because lore operates distinctly differently in the Halo EU compared to the game’s design, and impacts the game design in a completely different manner.

10776

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> > > > 2533274886529017;10753:
> > > > > 2533274838073795;10752:
> > > > > Meh, I like it cos it adds more depth to tactical decisions, such as whether to run or fight, as you don’t recharge shields when sprinting etc. I love how really complex escapes can happen whilst no shields on this game, I love seeing how long I can survive. Yeah they could increase the base movement speed I suppose and it would achieve the same thing, would they do that though? I just don’t see the argument that sprint makes the gameplay worse, it just adds to the variety of encounters Halo offers as far as I’m concerned.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Soooooo… Your argument boils down to escaping bad situations you put yourself, mainly when you shouldn’t (when you’re no shields). That’s exactly why sprint is a bad thing.
> > >
> > >
> > > No, sprint or not I would try escape some situations like that anyway, sprint is just one more tool that enables this. Clamber does the same yet no one whines about that. I just like having options, if I want to fight my way out, which I do the majority of times, I will, I would rather have sprint and not use it than want it and not have it.
> >
> >
> > Bingo… I think that’s a critical and well stated counter to the “pro sprinters just want to escape punishment,” argument… That’s got nothing to do with wanting to keep sprint and even implies that people who want sprint aren’t as competitive. There are multiple reasons why players want to keep sprint and it doesn’t just boil down to an issue where they want to be able to run away from engagement more often.
>
>
> It’s just ridiculous, on one hand they say that people with superior position and shot placement get “punished”, yet on the other say its somehow really easy for them to back around a corner and sprint off. I’m sorry but if you’re letting someone do that, then you HAVENT got a superior position, its as simple as that. I mostly player slayer in Arena (rarely do anything else tbh), and its not even remotely difficult to pin people down so that they can’t just sprint away. There’s literally zero logic in some of these arguments, some people even say the ones sprinting have the advantage at the start of an engagement, SMH, maybe with Spartan Charge but that’s a whole other argument. If you’re not sprinting and your enemy is at the start of an engagement and you die, its your own fault.

I’ve tried to state the same thing in this thread (But anti sprinters tried to “destroy,” my statement on this without actually considering it).

When I play competitive games in Arena or even social games in Warzone, getting kills has little to nothing to do with who uses sprint more. Enemies that try to shoot at me and/or my team then run away don’t escape punishment anymore than they would actually be helping their team win the game by sprinting away during combat. Shields don’t regenerate when they sprint away either so they can be trapped and funneled easily by me and my team when we do what actually does impact/win games… That is to gain and hold map position and to shoot better than the enemy team…

As logical as this point actually is, it certainly doesn’t benefit anti-sprinters’ cause to try and remove sprint… So naturally they would be aggressively trying to destroy the point itself; instead of being truly subjective when considering what is being said.

10777

> 2533274838073795;10752:
> That’s the thing though, few people are that skill level, I feel as though I represent a good middle ground (if not a bit above average), and that’s what 343 should concentrate on rather than how the pro players utilise certain abilities and situations.
> Also it seems to me like the thrusters are a worse offender in a lot of the scenarios you mention :stuck_out_tongue:

Okay? But that doesn’t mean you cater to the casuals in a bad manner. Basing a game and how it works around the highest level of play (Like CE did, almost inadvertently) not only makes it more competitively viable, but also in turn makes it more properly accessible to all, without being complex like Halo 5, because you end up having to remove the fluff that drags the game down, and thus make it simple. And if you were to go off of a proper middle ground, early Diamond rankings represent that middle.

And thrusters are bad, but sprint is still terrible and has a bad effect on how the game works. Thrusters only enable sprint and escape more than usual, but not to the same extent, given they are temporary and recharge over the time of 4 seconds.

10778

> 2533274886529017;10777:
> > 2533274838073795;10752:
> > That’s the thing though, few people are that skill level, I feel as though I represent a good middle ground (if not a bit above average), and that’s what 343 should concentrate on rather than how the pro players utilise certain abilities and situations.
> > Also it seems to me like the thrusters are a worse offender in a lot of the scenarios you mention :stuck_out_tongue:
>
>
> Okay? But that doesn’t mean you cater to the casuals in a bad manner. Basing a game and how it works around the highest level of play (Like CE did, almost inadvertently) not only makes it more competitively viable, but also in turn makes it more properly accessible to all, without being complex like Halo 5, because you end up having to remove the fluff that drags the game down, and thus make it simple. And if you were to go off of a proper middle ground, early Diamond rankings represent that middle.
>
> And thrusters are bad, but sprint is still terrible and has a bad effect on how the game works. Thrusters only enable sprint and escape more than usual, but not to the same extent, given they are temporary and recharge over the time of 4 seconds.

I’m not convinced that early diamond is the middle ground, every time I’ve seen rankings leaderboard there seems to be more people in gold/platinum than any other rank. And I think there was far, far too much focus on the pro player in this game, at the level I play (and I’m sure the majority of others play), sprint is purely a means of covering distances quickly and almost never a means of escape. I can’t really comment beyond that which I’ve experienced first hand after nearly 400 hours of game play :confused:
Also don’t forget that almost no casual/average Halo players ever use sites like these so community opinion can seem very distorted compared with the reality. I’m the only person I know who plays Halo and uses this site, for example, but we all love sprint.

10779

> 2533274838073795;10752:
> I’m not convinced that early diamond is the middle ground, every time I’ve seen rankings leaderboard there seems to be more people in gold than any other rank. And I think there was far, far too much focus on the pro player in this game, at the level I play (and I’m sure the majority of others play), sprint is purely a means of covering distances quickly and almost never a means of escape. I can’t really comment beyond that which I’ve experienced first hand after nearly 400 hours of game play :confused:

There was a focus on the pro players, sure, but not the competitive style. It’s why you have things that allow you to escape easily and get easy kills, despite pro involvement. It helps them win tournies, they’re not going to turn hand holders down. Most probably don’t even understand the gameplay’s downsides which go beyond abilities. :stuck_out_tongue:

Where I play, sprint’s constantly screwed me over, because people will jump out of cover, thrust back into it when they shoot me, then sprint off because I put the same damage into them. I can’t chase them, and I don’t even bother.

Don’t forget, time played won’t always mean knowledge attained. It takes more than just time to understand a game’s mechanics at a truly deep level. Time can help in some cases, but won’t be the determining factor. And that isn’t to undermine you, make no mistake. But there’s more to it than time.

10780

> 2533274886529017;10779:
> > 2533274838073795;10752:
> > I’m not convinced that early diamond is the middle ground, every time I’ve seen rankings leaderboard there seems to be more people in gold than any other rank. And I think there was far, far too much focus on the pro player in this game, at the level I play (and I’m sure the majority of others play), sprint is purely a means of covering distances quickly and almost never a means of escape. I can’t really comment beyond that which I’ve experienced first hand after nearly 400 hours of game play :confused:
>
>
> There was a focus on the pro players, sure, but not the competitive style. It’s why you have things that allow you to escape easily and get easy kills, despite pro involvement. It helps them win tournies, they’re not going to turn hand holders down. Most probably don’t even understand the gameplay’s downsides which go beyond abilities. :stuck_out_tongue:
>
> Where I play, sprint’s constantly screwed me over, because people will jump out of cover, thrust back into it when they shoot me, then sprint off because I put the same damage into them. I can’t chase them, and I don’t even bother.
>
> Don’t forget, time played won’t always mean knowledge attained. It takes more than just time to understand a game’s mechanics at a truly deep level. Time can help in some cases, but won’t be the determining factor. And that isn’t to undermine you, make no mistake. But there’s more to it than time.

Yeah I can’t really deny that, I’m very much casual however competitive I like to think I am sometimes :slight_smile: barely improved much since last year (most noticeable improvement definitely came with purchase of Elite controlled :D)
At the end of the day, 343i are the ones with access to all the metrics, they know how many people play at which levels etc, and i find it hard to believe they’d continue to use sprint in the knowledge that most people are disadvantaged by it just to annoy people! There must be some reason for the decision and i truly believe that’s because it does more good for more people than it does bad for those at a higher level. Obviously this is nothing more than speculation but i like to think they use their statistics to inform their decision but it could just be them doing whatever they want and -Yoink- the rest of us. Who knows :confused:
Maybe I’m wrong anyway, if I am and its negatively affected more people than is has affected positively then they will change it for Halo 6 anyway i think, whether we all shout about it on here or not lol

10781

I think Sprint should stay. Spartan Charge is alright, kinda OP.

10782

> 2533274838073795;10752:
> Yeah I can’t really deny that, I’m very much casual however competitive I like to think I am sometimes :slight_smile: barely improved much since last year (most noticeable improvement definitely came with purchase of Elite controlled :D)
>
> At the end of the day, 343i are the ones with access to all the metrics, they know how many people play at which levels etc, and i find it hard to believe they’d continue to use sprint in the knowledge that most people are disadvantaged by it just to annoy people! There must be some reason for the decision and i truly believe that’s because it does more good for more people than it does bad for those at a higher level. Obviously this is nothing more than speculation but i like to think they use their statistics to inform their decision but it could just be them doing whatever they want and -Yoink- the rest of us. Who knows :confused:
>
> Maybe I’m wrong anyway, if I am and its negatively affected more people than is has affected positively then they will change it for Halo 6 anyway i think, whether we all shout about it on here or not lol

Maybe, maybe not. Guess we’ll need rank stats for the former now, I went off of launch stats there. I just personally think it’s easy to see the impact (Of sprint and the like) with how many people have left over the years, as Halo became more complex with said abilities, which, to be honest, is sad. Halo isn’t the juggernaut it used to be. :confused:

10783

> 2533274886529017;10782:
> > 2533274838073795;10752:
> > Yeah I can’t really deny that, I’m very much casual however competitive I like to think I am sometimes :slight_smile: barely improved much since last year (most noticeable improvement definitely came with purchase of Elite controlled :D)
> >
> > At the end of the day, 343i are the ones with access to all the metrics, they know how many people play at which levels etc, and i find it hard to believe they’d continue to use sprint in the knowledge that most people are disadvantaged by it just to annoy people! There must be some reason for the decision and i truly believe that’s because it does more good for more people than it does bad for those at a higher level. Obviously this is nothing more than speculation but i like to think they use their statistics to inform their decision but it could just be them doing whatever they want and -Yoink- the rest of us. Who knows :confused:
> >
> > Maybe I’m wrong anyway, if I am and its negatively affected more people than is has affected positively then they will change it for Halo 6 anyway i think, whether we all shout about it on here or not lol
>
>
> Maybe, maybe not. Guess we’ll need rank stats for the former now, I went off of launch stats there. I just personally think it’s easy to see the impact (Of sprint and the like) with how many people have left over the years, as Halo became more complex with said abilities, which, to be honest, is sad. Halo isn’t the juggernaut it used to be. :confused:

To be fair, that’s undeniable. We may never know the full reasons why, it could genuinely be anything but yeah changing mechanics seems a likely culprit. Despite it all I cant help but love how Halo 5 plays