The sprint discussion thread

Games Halo 5: Guardians
10724

> 2533274902628105;10722:
> Well after 537 pages of replies I figure it time for me to pitch in. While I do love the first three halos I do prefer a two movment system over a single movement system. Sprint allows me to somewhat choose the speed at which I fight through the encounters in a game. This is also the reason why I dislike dooms movement system as it is only one speed and that speed is set to super fast, to me this make the game cumbersome and reliant on fast animations instead of stagegy such as in halo 5. In many encounters running straight up the middle will get you kills in halo while taking a slower approach allows you to spot several different routes to use. This being said I don’t think the Sprint should be unlimited but I also don’t think it should be as short as what’s in 4 or reach. Now this is just my opinion and I am by no way saying it is fact. I am fine with a slow movement speed(halo 1-odst) or a dual movement system(halo reach-halo 5) but not a fast movement system(Doom and similar ganes).

You can move at different speed with single movement system by adjusting how much you push joystick… Your argument isn’t apply to only sprint or having two or more movement system.

10725

> 2533274902628105;10722:
> Well after 537 pages of replies I figure it time for me to pitch in. While I do love the first three halos I do prefer a two movment system over a single movement system. Sprint allows me to somewhat choose the speed at which I fight through the encounters in a game. This is also the reason why I dislike dooms movement system as it is only one speed and that speed is set to super fast, to me this make the game cumbersome and reliant on fast animations instead of stagegy such as in halo 5. In many encounters running straight up the middle will get you kills in halo while taking a slower approach allows you to spot several different routes to use. This being said I don’t think the Sprint should be unlimited but I also don’t think it should be as short as what’s in 4 or reach. Now this is just my opinion and I am by no way saying it is fact. I am fine with a slow movement speed(halo 1-odst) or a dual movement system(halo reach-halo 5) but not a fast movement system(Doom and similar ganes).

But you don’t chose what speed to fight at. You can’t fight while sprinting, unless you count Spartan charge which no one likes anyway. You can only fight at BMS. Which is slow because of sprint.

10726

> 2533274825830455;10723:
> > 2535450703392903;10720:
> > > 2533274825830455;10719:
> > > > 2535450703392903;10718:
> > > > Halo CE based a lot of its mechanics on games that weren’t popular overall.
> > >
> > >
> > > Wait, like what?
> >
> >
> > Rise of the triad with twi weapon limit.
> >
> > http://www.gamesradar.com/stop-drop-and-heal-history-regenerating-health/
> >
> > There was an FPS that used it first as well. Cant remember the name. Something about mercenaries.
>
>
> Yes, I guess that’s one and regenerating health is another. I was expecting a longer list, but then I realized that CE was quite bare with mechanics, so I guess you’re kind of right. But framing it like you do makes it seem like CE was some underdog game that went against the flow by popularizing a great bunch of lesser known mechanics. Really it was riding on the wake of Quake and Unreal Tournament, not deviating much from the norms set by those games. The big hit of CE was thumb stick controls done right, if we’re speaking purely in mechanics terms.

HCE did go against the flow. Big time. Not deviating from quake and unreal? Did you ever play those game?

Those games were all about amassing numerous weapons and moving about the map to gather health.

HCE went in the complete opposite direction. It simplified. It paired down. And it did it by keeping an eye out there for smaller games that had little ideas here and there that could be adopted into halo.

If HCE would have taken the 343 route and just looked at popular games, it would have sucked.

10727

> 2535414299834534;10713:
> Sprint is good to keep. I want a more Halo 4 like game without certain aspects like mini shotgun bolt shot and Loadouts and kill streak ordnance drops. A Halo 4 game with the added clamber and just no Spartan abilities and no Armor abilities.
>
> I want a Halo 4 game to have no Reqs or Req packs or Microtransactions. A Halo 4 game were players have more say as to what maps they play as opposed to being forced of ESPORTS favourites.
>
> I want a Reach like campaign co op with your friends being their own created Spartans as opposed to incompetent AI bots. I’d like splitscreen to return.
>
> I want a Halo 4 game with Spartan ops as well as a special Flood Firefight mode. I loved the Halo 4 War games and adding a visual rank would still be doable. I like the Halo 4 UI and main menu screen more so than Halo 5.
>
> There were only only a few things that could’ve been edited or cut from the game and the game would’ve been as good as Halo 2 and 3. I loved Halo 4 although it had it’s issues it is still my favourite in the series.
>
> I want a Halo 4 style game for Halo 6. I’m a minority on here but I’m not a minority elsewhere. I loved Halo 4 and in my opinion Halo 5 went too far. I don’t like Halo 5 only because of the Req pack Microtransactions and Cosmetics ect. Typical reasons.
>
> But you have to admit Halo 4 wasn’t that bad of a game if they took out what I mentioned above.

I placed my opinions here. Proves me right eh?

10728

> 2533274902628105;10722:
> Well after 537 pages of replies I figure it time for me to pitch in. While I do love the first three halos I do prefer a two movment system over a single movement system. Sprint allows me to somewhat choose the speed at which I fight through the encounters in a game. This is also the reason why I dislike dooms movement system as it is only one speed and that speed is set to super fast, to me this make the game cumbersome and reliant on fast animations instead of stagegy such as in halo 5. In many encounters running straight up the middle will get you kills in halo while taking a slower approach allows you to spot several different routes to use. This being said I don’t think the Sprint should be unlimited but I also don’t think it should be as short as what’s in 4 or reach. Now this is just my opinion and I am by no way saying it is fact. I am fine with a slow movement speed(halo 1-odst) or a dual movement system(halo reach-halo 5) but not a fast movement system(Doom and similar ganes).

I’ll break my post into points for easy reading

  1. Sprint does add a new movement system, but joysticks have always allowed you to choose what speed you move throughout the world. If hold the joystick halfway forward, your Spartan moves at about half speed. This changes with increments as you move your joystick. Sprint only adds one extra tid-bit, the ability to rush forward with no real added options other than a slightly longer jump. However, you don’t need this extra long jump if maps are scaled for no sprint.

  2. Doom has a fast BMS (Base Movement Speed). A fast BMS contributes to a game feeling fast. For example, if you turn off sprint in H5 and bump the BMS up to sprint speed, the game feels faster because now you traverse the map scaled for sprint (Yes, maps are larger for sprint) at the speed which it was designed for. This gets you into combat just as fast as sprint, but you get to be this fast and still shoot enemies making you lethal.

  3. Giving a fast BMS and removing sprint will allow for more strategic gameplay as you call it. Because now, you can be punished for rushing without forethought. So not only do you have to know where an enemy might be, you have to make sure you don’t put yourself at a disadvantage when you fight them because the margin for error is now smaller.

  4. This will be a bit contradictory to my posts, but if you do put sprint in it has to be unlimited. The reason being is when a player runs out of sprint they are now unable to cross the map at the speed that it was designed for. This may not seem like a huge deal, but it creates dead zones in maps, places players never really go. It also slows the game down because players now can’t traverse the map as fast as intended, meaning they cannot reach combat as quickly. Thus making on of the arguments for sprint to stay “get into combat quicker” void.

  5. Final point for this post. H2 and H3 feel slow because of the FOV (Field of View). Look online for what FOV does to games. CE (or H1) has the highest FOV, but the real experience of CE is splitscreen which has the highest FOV of any Halo game. A game with a slow BMS can feel fast because of FOV.

10729

> 2535450703392903;10726:
> > 2533274825830455;10723:
> > > 2535450703392903;10720:
> > > > 2533274825830455;10719:
> > > > > 2535450703392903;10718:
> > > > > Halo CE based a lot of its mechanics on games that weren’t popular overall.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Wait, like what?
> > >
> > >
> > > Rise of the triad with twi weapon limit.
> > >
> > > http://www.gamesradar.com/stop-drop-and-heal-history-regenerating-health/
> > >
> > > There was an FPS that used it first as well. Cant remember the name. Something about mercenaries.
> >
> >
> > Yes, I guess that’s one and regenerating health is another. I was expecting a longer list, but then I realized that CE was quite bare with mechanics, so I guess you’re kind of right. But framing it like you do makes it seem like CE was some underdog game that went against the flow by popularizing a great bunch of lesser known mechanics. Really it was riding on the wake of Quake and Unreal Tournament, not deviating much from the norms set by those games. The big hit of CE was thumb stick controls done right, if we’re speaking purely in mechanics terms.
>
>
> HCE did go against the flow. Big time. Not deviating from quake and unreal? Did you ever play those game?
>
> Those games were all about amassing numerous weapons and moving about the map to gather health.
>
> HCE went in the complete opposite direction. It simplified. It paired down. And it did it by keeping an eye out there for smaller games that had little ideas here and there that could be adopted into halo.
>
> If HCE would have taken the 343 route and just looked at popular games, it would have sucked.

But it really didn’t. The gameplay was still based around picking weapons on the map. It was slowed down compared to its PC cousins to better work with the console controls, but the expected method of play was still running around, dodging enemy shots. Kill times were slow to emphasize this. Weapons were void of recoil with minimal spread. All was designed to emphasize the fast, movement oriented action that Doom pioneered. Going against the flow, at that time, would’ve been releasing a tactical cover based shooter that takes to focus on simulating realistic combat instead of powerful space marines.

If you did ten years later what Bungie did with CE in 2001, you’d end up with Titanfall: a class based twitch shooter taking cues from the popular CoD formula, slightly faster and with a new spin (the movement and the Titans). Just like CE took the tried and true arena shooter formula, slowed it down a bit and added a new spin (weapon limit and regenerating health). Of course, if you consider Titanfall a highly groundbreaking shooter that goes against the flow, then I guess we just have different views on how drastic you need to be to “go against the flow”. But if you agree that Titanfall is mostly an incremental step forward with a well tested formula as the backbone, then you should also agree that so was CE.

10730

> 2533274825830455;10729:
> > 2535450703392903;10726:
> > > 2533274825830455;10723:
> > > > 2535450703392903;10720:
> > > > > 2533274825830455;10719:
> > > > > > 2535450703392903;10718:
> > > > > > Halo CE based a lot of its mechanics on games that weren’t popular overall.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Wait, like what?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Rise of the triad with twi weapon limit.
> > > >
> > > > http://www.gamesradar.com/stop-drop-and-heal-history-regenerating-health/
> > > >
> > > > There was an FPS that used it first as well. Cant remember the name. Something about mercenaries.
> > >
> > >
> > > Yes, I guess that’s one and regenerating health is another. I was expecting a longer list, but then I realized that CE was quite bare with mechanics, so I guess you’re kind of right. But framing it like you do makes it seem like CE was some underdog game that went against the flow by popularizing a great bunch of lesser known mechanics. Really it was riding on the wake of Quake and Unreal Tournament, not deviating much from the norms set by those games. The big hit of CE was thumb stick controls done right, if we’re speaking purely in mechanics terms.
> >
> >
> > HCE did go against the flow. Big time. Not deviating from quake and unreal? Did you ever play those game?
> >
> > Those games were all about amassing numerous weapons and moving about the map to gather health.
> >
> > HCE went in the complete opposite direction. It simplified. It paired down. And it did it by keeping an eye out there for smaller games that had little ideas here and there that could be adopted into halo.
> >
> > If HCE would have taken the 343 route and just looked at popular games, it would have sucked.
>
>
> But it really didn’t. The gameplay was still based around picking weapons on the map. It was slowed down compared to its PC cousins to better work with the console controls, but the expected method of play was still running around, dodging enemy shots. Kill times were slow to emphasize this. Weapons were void of recoil with minimal spread. All was designed to emphasize the fast, movement oriented action that Doom pioneered. Going against the flow, at that time, would’ve been releasing a tactical cover based shooter that takes to focus on simulating realistic combat instead of powerful space marines.
>
> If you did ten years later what Bungie did with CE in 2001, you’d end up with Titanfall: a class based twitch shooter taking cues from the popular CoD formula, slightly faster and with a new spin (the movement and the Titans). Just like CE took the tried and true arena shooter formula, slowed it down a bit and added a new spin (weapon limit and regenerating health). Of course, if you consider Titanfall a highly groundbreaking shooter that goes against the flow, then I guess we just have different views on how drastic you need to be to “go against the flow”. But if you agree that Titanfall is mostly an incremental step forward with a well tested formula as the backbone, then you should also agree that so was CE.

CS and rainbow six were in existence at the time. Tactical shooters existed. In the genre of arena shooters, HCE took a big left turn.

Maybe you just don’t really understand quake? Even HCE with its static weapons and powers just didn’t work anything like quake. Like, if you went on a quake board and said halo CE was just like quake, with some slightly different mechanics you’d probably get banned for trolling

Either way, this tangent is really neither here nor there. My original point was that the mechanics HCE’s are famous for(regen, two weapon limit, hotkey mades) were adopted from lesser known games. This point was made to show that just because Doom wasn’t “succesful” as a whole does not mean 343 shouldn’t look at its movement mechanics.

10731

> 2535450703392903;10720:
> > 2533274825830455;10719:
> > > 2535450703392903;10718:
> > > Halo CE based a lot of its mechanics on games that weren’t popular overall.
> >
> >
> > Wait, like what?
>
>
> Rise of the triad with twi weapon limit.
>
> http://www.gamesradar.com/stop-drop-and-heal-history-regenerating-health/
>
> There was an FPS that used it first as well. Cant remember the name. Something about mercenaries.

What counts as "popular’’?

10732

But without sprint we won’t be able to slide! I will say I feel super boss traversing the map with sprint, slide, clamber and all the other mechanics. It just makes it super fun. If we have to get rid of sprint, and slide :(, can we keep thruster pack and clamber? I’m just a huge fan of the movement options Halo 5 provides, that’s all.

10733

> 2535450703392903;10730:
> CS and rainbow six were in existence at the time. Tactical shooters existed. In the genre of arena shooters, HCE took a big left turn.

We need to be careful with the time here. Halo CE released in 2001, but was already in the shooter stage in 1999. It’s unlikely that it had much time to take influence even from Unreal Tournament. Counter Strike was only a mod in 99, and I wouldn’t call Rainbow Six the mainstream of shooters of that era. It was all really happening in the wake of id Software’s successes still at that time. Bungie should know, they were already at it in 1994.

> 2535450703392903;10730:
> Maybe you just don’t really understand quake? Even HCE with its static weapons and powers just didn’t work anything like quake. Like, if you went on a quake board and said halo CE was just like quake, with some slightly different mechanics you’d probably get banned for trolling

To be honest, if I went on a Quake forum and started talking about Halo, I might get some weird looks. But if I said that Halo was just a dumbed down arena shooter for consoles, I might also get some agreement. It’s not about what you say, but how you phrase it for your audience.

> 2535450703392903;10730:
> Either way, this tangent is really neither here nor there. My original point was that the mechanics HCE’s are famous for(regen, two weapon limit, hotkey mades) were adopted from lesser known games. This point was made to show that just because Doom wasn’t “succesful” as a whole does not mean 343 shouldn’t look at its movement mechanics.

The last sentence I agree with. What game a mechanic is from isn’t nearly as relevant as how well the mechanic might fit to the game you’re making. I don’t think Halo needs to specifically take cues from Doom, per se, but sprint is not doing its gameplay any favors.

10734

I really like Sprint. I think it adds to the experience and increases the fast paced feel that I love. I think 343 has balanced it perfectly with the no recharging shields while sprinting (and the additinal Spartan Charge is nice- but must be nerfed). Overall I am in the Pro Sprint Camp- but 343 needs to find a way to satisfy those who hate Sprint. Figure out why they hate it, and find a way to work around it.

10735

> 2533274927741400;10732:
> But without sprint we won’t be able to slide! I will say I feel super boss traversing the map with sprint, slide, clamber and all the other mechanics. It just makes it super fun. If we have to get rid of sprint, and slide :(, can we keep thruster pack and clamber? I’m just a huge fan of the movement options Halo 5 provides, that’s all.

There ways to utilize slide without sprint, it’s just developers never done it. To add on, there is no need for slide in Halo.

10736

> 2535426305015212;10734:
> I really like Sprint. I think it adds to the experience and increases the fast paced feel that I love. I think 343 has balanced it perfectly with the no recharging shields while sprinting (and the additinal Spartan Charge is nice- but must be nerfed). Overall I am in the Pro Sprint Camp- but 343 needs to find a way to satisfy those who hate Sprint. Figure out why they hate it, and find a way to work around it.

Or just take it out because it’s pointless and serves no purpose.

If you love a fast-paced game, then why would you like sprint, when it objectively slows the pace down. If you’ve never played CE or H2, you should. The pace is infinitely faster than modern Halo. If you have played them and somehow think that they’re slower, then you’ve just nullifed your opinion.

10737

> 2533275035781111;10700:
> > 2533274791804102;10697:
> > > 2533274921982810;10695:
> > > > 2533274791804102;10666:
> > > > It’s 2017 just about. ShoW me one top tier FPS that doesn’t have sprint… Spartans aren’t able run, really? Sprint breaks gameplay? Why is this a discussion? Halo gmers that complain about sprint and Spartan abilities should go play MCC. Seriously get over this topic. 10k post that won’t change the next game. Adapt or leave. If they remove it next game and I have to walk across a map, oh well. Be realistic, sprint exists in games now.
>
>
> The same thing again. Someone pro sprint makes a horrible attempt to win an argument. Gets killed by people who actually know what their talking about. Then quits saying that the anti sprint side is trolling.

That wasn’t the case at all. And by your response you are an example of why I left, picking a part a single post and claiming your undeniable position. I stated in previous posts, not the one you quoted, about the pros of sprint in relation to campaign, Warzone, vehicles, and it’s general use. I still enjoy the sprint feature and feel it improves gameplay; my side of the fence.

I didn’t get killed, odd euphemism to use, and for those who “know what they are talking about”, gg. Go into game production. 343 has done a great job of not utterly ruining this IP as a whole. Bungie in their latest fps (destiny) even has a sprint… odd?

If this is a continuous issue of pro sprint supporters leaving, then it lends to the idea of the one sidedness of this topic in terms of its participants. This “discussion” is apparently a vent of like minded people to stand on a soap box proclaiming how correct the opinion here is. People that are pro sprint are either passing through or enjoying the game regardless of its niche complaints.

I opted to leave as there is no discussion, and I even fell prey to the ego.

I’ll leave here again unless I’m specifically called out as before, so please continue the educated debate with out me. If you prefer disharmony specifically with me in, please PM me.

Good luck and may the community benefit.

10738

> 2533274919539931;10683:
> > 2533274943854776;10653:
> > > 2533274919539931;10647:
> > > Sprint is a good mechanic to have in first person shooter games, it adds variety and play style to each game. I think every spartan should have it, but there should be perks to mess with the cool down and everything else so that each player can customize sprint for their personal likes.
> >
> >
> > How does it add variety? Oh, and I’ll be the first one to admit, that the perk- system thing was kinda cool in H4.
>
>
> Yeah, the perk system was fun, they should bring it back in future games but work on it a bit. I think it adds variety because it makes it possible to catch up to vehicles in different situations. If a rocket or grenade is coming, it helps you get away from the area of effect quick so you might survive. You can catch up to people to beat them down or assassinate them instead of waiting for them to stop moving. Moving at the same speed all the time makes it more predictable, but unpredictability is what makes Halo fun in my opinion, sprint is only a tiny factor that adds to that. Those are some of the reasons why I like and think sprint is good and adds variety.

I do kinda see where you’re coming from. But you must look at sprint from multiple perspectives. Like you might like catching up to vehicles, but the players in those vehicles don’t like you catching up to them. Wouldn’t a more skillful and deeper experience be using things like team-shot, other vehicles, power-ups, guns and the H3 equipment?
Same goes for rockets and if they did get rockets, you should be punished. Catching up to people was possible in classic Halos, it was just harder and more skillful.

The unpredictability part is very interesting. It is a valid reason to like sprint. I just think that a game with competitive roots should try to be as competitive as it’s roots. Unpredictability=random, random=casual gameplay. Celestis was telling people why sprint sucks in campaing here. Sprint also discourages good map positioning, because why would you wanna be in a good position, when people just keep escaping you and you can’t chase anyone with your gun up.

10739

> 2533274791804102;10737:
> > 2533275035781111;10700:
> > > 2533274791804102;10697:
> > > > 2533274921982810;10695:
> > > > > 2533274791804102;10666:
> > > > > It’s 2017 just about. ShoW me one top tier FPS that doesn’t have sprint… Spartans aren’t able run, really? Sprint breaks gameplay? Why is this a discussion? Halo gmers that complain about sprint and Spartan abilities should go play MCC. Seriously get over this topic. 10k post that won’t change the next game. Adapt or leave. If they remove it next game and I have to walk across a map, oh well. Be realistic, sprint exists in games now.
> >
> >
> > The same thing again. Someone pro sprint makes a horrible attempt to win an argument. Gets killed by people who actually know what their talking about. Then quits saying that the anti sprint side is trolling.
>
>
> That wasn’t the case at all. And by your response you are an example of why I left, picking a part a single post and claiming your undeniable position. I stated in previous posts, not the one you quoted, about the pros of sprint in relation to campaign, Warzone, vehicles, and it’s general use. I still enjoy the sprint feature and feel it improves gameplay; my side of the fence.
>
> I didn’t get killed, odd euphemism to use, and for those who “know what they are talking about”, gg. Go into game production. 343 has done a great job of not utterly ruining this IP as a whole. Bungie in their latest fps (destiny) even has a sprint… odd?
>
> If this is a continuous issue of pro sprint supporters leaving, then it lends to the idea of the one sidedness of this topic in terms of its participants. This “discussion” is apparently a vent of like minded people to stand on a soap box proclaiming how correct the opinion here is. People that are pro sprint are either passing through or enjoying the game regardless of its niche complaints.
>
> I opted to leave as there is no discussion, and I even fell prey to the ego.
>
> I’ll leave here again unless I’m specifically called out as before, so please continue the educated debate with out me. If you prefer disharmony specifically with me in, please PM me.
>
> Good luck and may the community benefit.

Did you explain how sprint improves gameplay?

10740

weve all posted on this aleady bring back classic halo

10741

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> > 2533274848599184;10712:
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> > > > 2533274848599184;10708:
> > > > > 2533274795123910;10706:
> > > > > > 2533274848599184;10701:
> > > > > > > 2533275035781111;10699:
> > > > > > > > 2533274848599184;10698:
> > > > > > > > I’d just like to point out that Doom, despite being multiplatform, has not had success in the market. Neither in sales or in population.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > It being used as comparison to a “successful” FPS is ludicrous. Most sprint arguments are made because people want Halo to reach Halo 3 levels of popularity. Otherwise, they’d be subjective and opinionated and therefore makes arguments like this irrelevant. Doom has not reached Halo 5 levels of popularity, so using it as a benchmark for what Halo can be is wrong.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > No, but we can use its high BMS as an example of what we want. Doom may have failed for other reasons but people aren’t complaining about the BMS.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > BMS is one part of your issue. Give it as an example of what we want, but the majority of comments list either Overwatch or Doom as a “successful FPS that doesn’t have sprint”. Neither of which are fair comparisons. Ill leave Overwatch for now, but it should be fairly apparent as to why it is not comparable. But DOOM is neither successful nor highly played anymore. Sure, it had a large following right out of the gate, but it has since fallen extremely far in sales charts and population charts. It didnt make as much money as people on here thought it would, it didnt keep a population, and it is therefore not something to benchmark Halo’s success on.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Here’s a small thing though, or couple.
> > > > > Whenever the question of “Other FPS games without sprint” comes up, it boils down to Criterias of what counts or not.
> > > > >
> > > > > The real question asked is pretty much: Name a succesful high rated full of content FPS game with a multiplayer component which aren’t any of the game you’re going to list based on more criterias and excuses I’m adding later so they do not count.
> > > > >
> > > > > I doubt even a succesful full content Original Halo Clonr lile game would count for some arbitrary reason.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I can name many FPS games without sprint. However, except for Doom, most of them contain some form of alternate speed map traversal.
> > > >
> > > > If Doom had come out and been highly successful, like most people on here said it would be, this wouldnt be valid. I would gladly have claimed defeat and backed off. But clearly Doom hasnt been successful. And therefore we are back to having no successful games to compare Halo to.
> > >
> > >
> > > Halo was one of those games with forms of alternate traversal. Teleporters? Man Cannons? Anyone remember those?
> >
> >
> > We still have those.
>
>
> Yeah but they’re never used anymore. Name me one arena map that has a teleporter in it. Name me one arena map not named tyrant that has a man cannon in it (Even then the man cannon in tyrant is only really used for aesthetic purposes._

BTB uses teleporters. Id consider standard Arena maps too small to use teleporters for. I mean, whats the point of map and weapon control if the enemy can just walk into a teleporter and then now they flank you. Halo 5 was stated to be highly focused on the competitive side of Halo. Teleporters dont really add to competitive gameplay.

10742

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> > > > 2533274848599184;10701:
> > > > > 2533275035781111;10699:
> > > > > > 2533274848599184;10698:
> > > > > > I’d just like to point out that Doom, despite being multiplatform, has not had success in the market. Neither in sales or in population.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It being used as comparison to a “successful” FPS is ludicrous. Most sprint arguments are made because people want Halo to reach Halo 3 levels of popularity. Otherwise, they’d be subjective and opinionated and therefore makes arguments like this irrelevant. Doom has not reached Halo 5 levels of popularity, so using it as a benchmark for what Halo can be is wrong.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > No, but we can use its high BMS as an example of what we want. Doom may have failed for other reasons but people aren’t complaining about the BMS.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > BMS is one part of your issue. Give it as an example of what we want, but the majority of comments list either Overwatch or Doom as a “successful FPS that doesn’t have sprint”. Neither of which are fair comparisons. Ill leave Overwatch for now, but it should be fairly apparent as to why it is not comparable. But DOOM is neither successful nor highly played anymore. Sure, it had a large following right out of the gate, but it has since fallen extremely far in sales charts and population charts. It didnt make as much money as people on here thought it would, it didnt keep a population, and it is therefore not something to benchmark Halo’s success on.
> > >
> > >
> > > Again, for other reasons, the movement speed was highly liked. Maby the fact that matchmaking dosn’t work 90% of the time might have had a small effect on that.
> >
> >
> > Highly liked by who? Im sure people liked it. But clearly not enough people did, hence why the population is so low.
> >
> > Doom’s main focus is campaign, and yet its used as a comparison for multiplayer Halo all the time. On these forums, you see people who are ready to keep sprint in campaign and only have it removed for multiplayer.
> >
> > The fact remains that Doom is used as an example of Halo not using sprint and still being successful. The problem here is that Doom is not successful. It didnt steal Halo’s population, like many people thought it would, it didnt break sales charts, like some thought it would, and therefore, it should not serve as a benchmark for Halo.
>
>
> How many times do I have to repeat myself. We aren’t using it as a benchmark for all of halo. Or for its sucess. We are using its gameplay. That’s it. Not the server issues that killed the fanbase. Read some reviews if you think no one liked the gameplay.

The questions is why do we want to use that gameplay. You should probably give a reason why. Unless you personally want it, in which case, this discussion is pretty much over. Im not here to argue with people for their personal opinions. Im here because some people state opinions and present them as if that opinion would make Halo x amount better, or would bring Halo back to an x amount of popularity.

If we really want to go by reviews, then Halo 5 has it right. Most reviews, if not all, consider the campaign to be the failing feature of Halo 5, and this topic focuses on gameplay. If we were to sum up Halo 4 and Halo 5 in terms of their reviews alone, provided 343 takes each game’s strengths, Halo 6 will be a fantastic, 9.5/10 metacritic game, with a great, compelling campaign (Halo 4) and fun multiplayer/gameplay (Halo 5). At least, according to reviews. Read some if you dont believe me.

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> > > > I’d just like to point out that Doom, despite being multiplatform, has not had success in the market. Neither in sales or in population.
> > > >
> > > > It being used as comparison to a “successful” FPS is ludicrous. Most sprint arguments are made because people want Halo to reach Halo 3 levels of popularity. Otherwise, they’d be subjective and opinionated and therefore makes arguments like this irrelevant. Doom has not reached Halo 5 levels of popularity, so using it as a benchmark for what Halo can be is wrong.
> > >
> > >
> > > No, but we can use its high BMS as an example of what we want. Doom may have failed for other reasons but people aren’t complaining about the BMS.
> >
> >
> > BMS is one part of your issue. Give it as an example of what we want, but the majority of comments list either Overwatch or Doom as a “successful FPS that doesn’t have sprint”. Neither of which are fair comparisons. Ill leave Overwatch for now, but it should be fairly apparent as to why it is not comparable. But DOOM is neither successful nor highly played anymore. Sure, it had a large following right out of the gate, but it has since fallen extremely far in sales charts and population charts. It didnt make as much money as people on here thought it would, it didnt keep a population, and it is therefore not something to benchmark Halo’s success on.
>
>
> Halo CE based a lot of its mechanics on games that weren’t popular overall.
>
> Innovation isn’t about just grabbing whatever the most popular games have. It’s about taking inspiration from games that have mechanics/features that could work well in your game.
>
> The fact of the matter is subjectively speaking doom’s movement feels much better than h5’s. If 343 agrees then that’s the only reason they need.

I see this was already touched on. Ive had this argument already, earlier in this specific post. People that argue that Halo CE was innovative either turn a blind eye to its Quake/Doom influences or are specifically selective in what aspects they mention are innovative.

Halo CE was innovative for bringing arena style FPS games to consoles. Thats about it. The shield health system is a combination of various games. Only the two joystick control scheme was done perfectly, but almost everything else is ripped out of different games. Wolfenstein, Doom, Quake, and even GoldenEye are shown as defining shooters that brought about the FPS genre. Halo is seen as the game that brought that genre to consoles in a large, mainstream way.

There are two possible ways to ending up at Halo 5. Either people assume Bungie would’ve gone from Reach to something similar to Halo 4 before ending up at 5, or the other is that 343 copied CoD, Destiny, Titanfall, and everything else along the way and ended up at Halo 5. I can personally see both, but in my mind, we still end up at what we have now. I see Bungie knowing that this fanbase, and this hardcore group of players would never get behind Destiny if it was in Halo form, so they abandoned the series to make Destiny. I can see Destiny’s influence in Reach, and I could see a Halo 4 in Destiny style. Either way, I see no innovation taking place. There has been no innovation in the Halo series, it just streamlined various amounts of FPS trends into one complete package that worked well. 343 tried and failed with Halo 4, but Halo 5 clearly shows that they learned fast.

"Innovation isn’t about just grabbing whatever the most popular games have. It’s about taking inspiration from games that have mechanics/features that could work well in your game."
What you described fits Halo 5 perfectly. It doesnt have classes, it focuses on equal starts and map control, with power weapon placements and spawns. The only SA that the forums argue about constantly is Spartan Charge, and honestly, I feel like a larger radar would mitigate most of those complaints. The radar was reduced to help newcomers to the game. Spartan Charge is still largely a useless tool to smarter players, and there is still a large skill gap in gameplay. Spartan Charge helps make Sprint feel like an offensive tool, and all other SA’s have both defensive and offensive uses.