The sprint discussion thread

> 2535411548517898;9624:
> not at all, Reach for me was one of the games with better level design in camaign and it also has the ability to sprint if you want to, also it had one of the best AI in my opinión, what really affects level design is the -Yoinking!- lack of creativity fron 343i, just look at the infinite armor variants in Halo 5, also that they’re changing the level, AI design and almost everything else to atract new players from other games, which is a -Yoinking!- terrible idea, they focus on other fans than in keeping the fans they already had, which makes Halo turning into another generic random fps, Reach is a prove that a game can have sprint, and still feel like Halo in everything else. The problema isn’t sprint, the problema is that 343i doesn’t know how to implement anything the right way in the game.

Reach’s AI wasn’t actually good it merely was overpowered. As I already said, Elites were not only able to shoot while running as fast as the player’s sprint speed, they could even dual wield, which was completely removed as a player ability. AI movement patterns were highly predictable and barely even reacted to player positioning, instead just continuously waiting in one place until the player comes to them. Elites were a lot more dynamic in, say, Halo 2 than in Reach. Even Brutes got less dynamic in Reach, which is pretty hard to imagine, given that they were almost nothing but slow bullet sponges in the original trilogy.

The leveldesign was also a step back in my opinion, even though I didn’t really hate it per se. But it was just the same thing over and over again.
In Winter Contingency, you spawn on a huge empty space, then run down a corridor, then another one, then another one until you first engage the covenant on a huge empty space with two wooden shacks. You then cross a huge empty space with a river and some rocks past a huge empty space with one wooden shack until you get a vehicle which which you drive along a huge empty space with some rocks towards three slightly less huge empty spaces, each with a wooden shack. After that, the Falcon takes you towards a somewhat large empty space with some boxes (and a forklift?) where you enter a building in which you follow a linear corridor towards another linear corridor which leads to a third linear corridor where you find your mission objective.
After that you start Sword Base in the middle of a huge empty space with some boxes, fight your way towards a huge empty space with some rocks where you get a vehicle which takes you to two huge empty spaces, one that has a shack and some rocks and the other one has two shacks. After that you return to the huge empty space with the rocks, cross the huge empty space with the boxes until you reach a huge empty space with some boxes inside the building. From there, the elevator takes you towards a corridor which leads to a corridor, which leads to the multiplayer map Sword Base which is composed of four corridors linked by some ramps.

I’m very grateful that those darn gondolas and elevators from Halo 2 didn’t return, but what we got instead is just a linear succession of corridors and empty spaces. It’s like they based all the levels on the design philosophy of The Library. I just miss levels like the engineering section inside the Pillar of Autumn, where you had two paths that ran around the central playspace, but you could just as well use the pipes as shortcuts to just jump straight to the mission objective. Or the holdout zone on the cliff edge from Halo, that had a meadow, a pulse generator building and an underground tunnel to provide different approaches towards the enemies, for vehicular, ranged or close quarters combat, respecively. Or most of all, the end of Assault on the Control room, where you could hijack a banshee in order to change the entire section between the bridge and the top of the control room building from ground to aerial combat. When was the last time Halo let you skip half an hour of a level by design (if you were fast/good enough)?

Other than that, no, Reach didn’t feel like Halo to me. But that wasn’t a problem, because Reach wasn’t a Halo game in the first place. It didn’t even have Halo in the title, both the main menu and the cutscenes just said “Reach”. It was a spinoff which tried some different mechanics (partially as a trial run for Destiny). Of course they didn’t work, but that was at least somewhat excusable, because it wasn’t a core, main series game. Halo 4 and H5G don’t have this excuse, they claim to be Halo games, yet don’t feel like it in the slightest.

> 2535411548517898;9647:
> then do you have evidence that people stop playing just for sprint or that dislike the whole game just for that, I know sprint made some changes to the franchise, but is not the -Yoinking!- end of the games, is just sprint, anyone can tolerate it, and if who doesn’t at least tolerate it is just because is bad at playing with the new mechanics and because can’t get use to it so tries to change the whole game at his convenience.

I had ample time to “get use to it”. I’m not a good player, not by a longshot, but if anything I’ve gotten better since sprint was introduced (K/D of 0.96 in Halo 3 compared to 1.096 in Halo 4). Nothing of this changes the fact that I just hate the mechanic, plain and simple. I hated sprint already in other games, before Halo copypasted it. To this day, I still don’t get why people would want to not be able to shoot in a first person shooter game. But regardless, I gave Bungie one chance to change my mind with Reach and I also gave 343 a chance to change my mind with Halo 4. But each game just got worse and worse instead, up to the atrocity that we have now with H5G. So no, I’m not buying a single “Halo” game with sprint anymore. Even if they bring back splitscreen and classic zoom (which are two other things I want fixed, ASAP), if the game has sprint anywhere near it, I won’t buy it. I’m not going to A) spend money for a product that I already know I won’t enjoy and B) actually pay to enable the continued downfall of the Halo series. If it’s a Halo game that I feel is worthy of both the franchise title and my money, then I’m going to buy, it but the only one that might even remotely qualify at this point is possibly Halo Wars 2.

> 2535446485707379;10639:
> > 2535450703392903;10633:
> > > 2535434559461370;10631:
> > > > 2535450703392903;10630:
> > > > > 2535434559461370;10629:
> > > > > > 2535450703392903;10626:
> > > > > > > 2535434559461370;10566:
> > > > > > > > 2535450703392903;10565:
> > > > > > > > > 2535434559461370;10564:
> > > > > > > > > > 2535450703392903;10563:
> > > > > > > > > > > 2535434559461370;10562:
> > > > > > > > > > > > 2535450703392903;10561:
> > > > > > > > > > > > I feel like at the crux of this issue is two preferences. People who want tradeoffs in movement and those who do not.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Seeing as halo was founded on the idea of movement without tradeoffs( strafing/jumping without penalties to accuracy), one of those preferences seems to fit halo and one does not.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I personally am not very affected by the trade off.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > So, it wouldn’t really matter if it was removed then would it?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > No, I’d rather it stay. While I got used to entering gunfights, ready, other people still sprint in. I see it as get used to predicting your battles, don’t sprint, or die more.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > It’s not a matter of being ready or not. There are things that you just physically cannot do. You cannot move at the optimum speed and shoot in the other directions. You can’t make jumps while shooting someone.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Most jumps are scaled to sprint jumping. Meaning in order to make the jump you have to look directly at it and give up the ability to shoot. Without sprint you can make that jump while looking in any direction. This opens up all kinds of gameplay options.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > With sprint Halo is a very binary game. You are either moving, or shooting. Without sprint, you can do both at all times.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > But that’s not how it really is. I agree that the jumps should be scaled to normal walk speed jumps but still, sprinting and shooting in the opposite direction isn’t in any game, and it wouldn’t be any different without sprinting. Just stop and shoot if you want to shoot someone behind you. Sprinting while shooting in any direction would make you run into things. Except for the jumps, sprinting is only used for faster, one-directional, movement. You shouldn’t be sprinting while fighting, other than while using an energy sword or gravity hammer.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Did you ever play hce, h2 or h3?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes, I’ve played every halo and was annoyed when I was forced to walk into a tense situation.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > But you realise you could make jumps and traverse the maps while shooting in different directions right?
> > >
> > >
> > > So then I didn’t sprint in the fight, only used it to get there. Nobody is forced to sprint and it is entirely the players choice to sprint or not.
> >
> >
> > No, you have to sprint in order to make numerous jumps. It’s not a choice.
>
>
> So, I haven’t been up to date on the 500 page thread so please don’t beat me. Please clarify this line of thought. Virtually every “normal” jump is doable wiith a standard jump or crouch jump. No clamber, sprint, smart-link or spartan abilities needed. A great deal of the non-normal jumps do not require sprint (if memory serves few do, although more speed does make some easier). Clamber and smart-link (and well timed crouch during it) play a bigger role in those jumps.
>
> I’m not arguing for sprint, mind you. I actually dislike it for reasons stated by other posters (the post by Arg on page 529 sums it up TBH, although I wouldn’t have stated it the same why). I’m just curious where you’re coming from.

What? There are jumps all over ever map that require sprint jumping. That’s not even mentioning cthrust, clamber or stabiliser.

> 2535450703392903;10645:
> > 2535446485707379;10639:
> > > 2535450703392903;10633:
> > > > 2535434559461370;10631:
> > > > > 2535450703392903;10630:
> > > > > > 2535434559461370;10629:
> > > > > > > 2535450703392903;10626:
> > > > > > > > 2535434559461370;10566:
> > > > > > > > > 2535450703392903;10565:
> > > > > > > > > > 2535434559461370;10564:
> > > > > > > > > > > 2535450703392903;10563:
> > > > > > > > > > > > 2535434559461370;10562:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 2535450703392903;10561:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > I feel like at the crux of this issue is two preferences. People who want tradeoffs in movement and those who do not.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Seeing as halo was founded on the idea of movement without tradeoffs( strafing/jumping without penalties to accuracy), one of those preferences seems to fit halo and one does not.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > I personally am not very affected by the trade off.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > So, it wouldn’t really matter if it was removed then would it?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > No, I’d rather it stay. While I got used to entering gunfights, ready, other people still sprint in. I see it as get used to predicting your battles, don’t sprint, or die more.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > It’s not a matter of being ready or not. There are things that you just physically cannot do. You cannot move at the optimum speed and shoot in the other directions. You can’t make jumps while shooting someone.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Most jumps are scaled to sprint jumping. Meaning in order to make the jump you have to look directly at it and give up the ability to shoot. Without sprint you can make that jump while looking in any direction. This opens up all kinds of gameplay options.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > With sprint Halo is a very binary game. You are either moving, or shooting. Without sprint, you can do both at all times.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > But that’s not how it really is. I agree that the jumps should be scaled to normal walk speed jumps but still, sprinting and shooting in the opposite direction isn’t in any game, and it wouldn’t be any different without sprinting. Just stop and shoot if you want to shoot someone behind you. Sprinting while shooting in any direction would make you run into things. Except for the jumps, sprinting is only used for faster, one-directional, movement. You shouldn’t be sprinting while fighting, other than while using an energy sword or gravity hammer.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Did you ever play hce, h2 or h3?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yes, I’ve played every halo and was annoyed when I was forced to walk into a tense situation.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > But you realise you could make jumps and traverse the maps while shooting in different directions right?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > So then I didn’t sprint in the fight, only used it to get there. Nobody is forced to sprint and it is entirely the players choice to sprint or not.
> > >
> > >
> > > No, you have to sprint in order to make numerous jumps. It’s not a choice.
> >
> >
> > So, I haven’t been up to date on the 500 page thread so please don’t beat me. Please clarify this line of thought. Virtually every “normal” jump is doable wiith a standard jump or crouch jump. No clamber, sprint, smart-link or spartan abilities needed. A great deal of the non-normal jumps do not require sprint (if memory serves few do, although more speed does make some easier). Clamber and smart-link (and well timed crouch during it) play a bigger role in those jumps.
> >
> > I’m not arguing for sprint, mind you. I actually dislike it for reasons stated by other posters (the post by Arg on page 529 sums it up TBH, although I wouldn’t have stated it the same why). I’m just curious where you’re coming from.
>
>
> What? There are jumps all over ever map that require sprint jumping. That’s not even mentioning cthrust, clamber or stabiliser.

Care to provide examples? Yes, every map has “skill jump” opportunities. I’d hardly consider those normal jumps though. Most of them do not require sprint either. They usually require some combination of clamber, smart-link and crouch, sure. But very few require sprint to pull off. The only gain from sprint in most of these cases is to make life easier.

Sprint is a good mechanic to have in first person shooter games, it adds variety and play style to each game. I think every spartan should have it, but there should be perks to mess with the cool down and everything else so that each player can customize sprint for their personal likes.

> 2535434559461370;10629:
> > 2535450703392903;10626:
> > > 2535434559461370;10566:
> > > > 2535450703392903;10565:
> > > > > 2535434559461370;10564:
> > > > > > 2535450703392903;10563:
> > > > > > > 2535434559461370;10562:
> > > > > > > > 2535450703392903;10561:
> > > > > > > > I feel like at the crux of this issue is two preferences. People who want tradeoffs in movement and those who do not.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Seeing as halo was founded on the idea of movement without tradeoffs( strafing/jumping without penalties to accuracy), one of those preferences seems to fit halo and one does not.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I personally am not very affected by the trade off.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So, it wouldn’t really matter if it was removed then would it?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > No, I’d rather it stay. While I got used to entering gunfights, ready, other people still sprint in. I see it as get used to predicting your battles, don’t sprint, or die more.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > It’s not a matter of being ready or not. There are things that you just physically cannot do. You cannot move at the optimum speed and shoot in the other directions. You can’t make jumps while shooting someone.
> > > >
> > > > Most jumps are scaled to sprint jumping. Meaning in order to make the jump you have to look directly at it and give up the ability to shoot. Without sprint you can make that jump while looking in any direction. This opens up all kinds of gameplay options.
> > > >
> > > > With sprint Halo is a very binary game. You are either moving, or shooting. Without sprint, you can do both at all times.
> > >
> > >
> > > But that’s not how it really is. I agree that the jumps should be scaled to normal walk speed jumps but still, sprinting and shooting in the opposite direction isn’t in any game, and it wouldn’t be any different without sprinting. Just stop and shoot if you want to shoot someone behind you. Sprinting while shooting in any direction would make you run into things. Except for the jumps, sprinting is only used for faster, one-directional, movement. You shouldn’t be sprinting while fighting, other than while using an energy sword or gravity hammer.
> >
> >
> > Did you ever play hce, h2 or h3?
>
>
> Yes, I’ve played every halo and was annoyed when I was forced to walk into a tense situation.

Even though you can’t fire your weapon when you’re sprinting, it helps you get to the battles faster. All you really have to do to stop sprinting is just let up a bit on the thumb stick, so it usually is a fast transition between the two. Sprint helps a lot in different situations.

> 2813409410083249;10642:
> > 2533274881560701;5:
> > > 2533274973685362;4:
> > > didn’t even bother reading it because it is the dumbest topic out there right now. Just because it has sprint doesn’t mean its not Halo. It’s one whole mechanic, that’s it. If you don’t like sprint, don’t sprint. Problem solved.
> >
> >
> > Except the maps are purposefully stretched out to accompany sprint, so that stretched maps will have the same sprint travel time as a non stretched map with just walking. So
> > not sprinting is punishing because the game had to be made around it.
>
>
> Very true, 343 has also adjusted the radar, shields and health to accommodate sprint and thrusters as well and it has really put me off. This thread really needs to be about this community coming together and force a few more changes than just sprint, but well said on your part!

It would be nice if the adjusted shields and motion trackers back to the Halo Reach and Halo 3 styles, it had a really good feel to that style, whereas in Halo 4 and 5 it seems like you die way to fast. Although, they should keep sprint in, it adds a lot of help and variety to each situation in the game.

> 2533274919539931;10648:
> > 2535434559461370;10629:
> > > 2535450703392903;10626:
> > > > 2535434559461370;10566:
> > > > > 2535450703392903;10565:
> > > > > > 2535434559461370;10564:
> > > > > > > 2535450703392903;10563:
> > > > > > > > 2535434559461370;10562:
> > > > > > > > > 2535450703392903;10561:
> > > > > > > > > I feel like at the crux of this issue is two preferences. People who want tradeoffs in movement and those who do not.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Seeing as halo was founded on the idea of movement without tradeoffs( strafing/jumping without penalties to accuracy), one of those preferences seems to fit halo and one does not.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I personally am not very affected by the trade off.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So, it wouldn’t really matter if it was removed then would it?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > No, I’d rather it stay. While I got used to entering gunfights, ready, other people still sprint in. I see it as get used to predicting your battles, don’t sprint, or die more.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > It’s not a matter of being ready or not. There are things that you just physically cannot do. You cannot move at the optimum speed and shoot in the other directions. You can’t make jumps while shooting someone.
> > > > >
> > > > > Most jumps are scaled to sprint jumping. Meaning in order to make the jump you have to look directly at it and give up the ability to shoot. Without sprint you can make that jump while looking in any direction. This opens up all kinds of gameplay options.
> > > > >
> > > > > With sprint Halo is a very binary game. You are either moving, or shooting. Without sprint, you can do both at all times.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > But that’s not how it really is. I agree that the jumps should be scaled to normal walk speed jumps but still, sprinting and shooting in the opposite direction isn’t in any game, and it wouldn’t be any different without sprinting. Just stop and shoot if you want to shoot someone behind you. Sprinting while shooting in any direction would make you run into things. Except for the jumps, sprinting is only used for faster, one-directional, movement. You shouldn’t be sprinting while fighting, other than while using an energy sword or gravity hammer.
> > >
> > >
> > > Did you ever play hce, h2 or h3?
> >
> >
> > Yes, I’ve played every halo and was annoyed when I was forced to walk into a tense situation.
>
>
> Even though you can’t fire your weapon when you’re sprinting, it helps you get to the battles faster. All you really have to do to stop sprinting is just let up a bit on the thumb stick, so it usually is a fast transition between the two. Sprint helps a lot in different situations.

This… This is a problem right here.
The mentality for sprint is that if you die, you respawn and get back to the fight. You shouldn’t think with that mentality. You should assess the fact that you died, and then on your “run” back (you’re not walking) to where you died to find that person, you THINK about what you could have done differently so you can not do that again in the future. Sometimes the reason you died is dumb (sniper, sticky, sword) but how many of us have been like… “darn, I should have crouched going in there” or “I should have expected a crouched guy with a sword” … “I should have seen the sniper waiting for me” " I shouldn’t have tried to melee him from that far off" … think about it.

Giving you sprint encourages 3 things. You either leave a battle with enough health to recharge and then re-engage OR you use it to catch up to someone you’ve wounded. or you use it to get back to the battle only to find that your team mates are dead and you’re about to die again. None of these promote dynamic gameplay. Enemy knows there’s little to no risk to charging into an area because they can sprint out of it. Players never think about their actions because they’re immediately re-engaged with another fight and don’t even consider what they did wrong, and all sense of strategy is thrown out the window because you can just exploit sprint to your advantage.

Someone mentioned earlier that they could use sprint to toss the flag and get a movement buff. Is that fair? The enemy team lost their flag, they should have enough time to locate the flag team carrying it back and engage them to get their flag back. If you remove that time by giving the enemy team the ability to move faster than you can catch up, then you’ve ruined a gameplay dynamic and made it one sided.

I know a lot of you are too young to even know what it was like to play over 5,000 games of Halo or Halo 2 multiplayer so you don’t understand some of the fundamental mechanics that made Halo, Halo, but you really should go back and play at least 200 games and discover why Bungie made the game the way they did. Once you get through playing the game without having sprint, you’ll start to see why it’s not needed, and then come to hate it.

Scenario
Let’s say that you’re in the middle of the map waiting for a weapon to spawn (the notifications that weapons have respawned need to be removed also… but that’s another topic entirely). You spot that there are two people from the enemy team that are advancing towards you. You know in your mind you had either shoot or move. In Halo 2, you would have at least 5 seconds to consider what you wanted to do because of the lack of sprint. Halo 5, you have about 2, and you’re going to probably leave with half your shield and them chasing you to kill you.

How does that benefit you? You can’t heal if you sprint, and you can’t outrun them if you don’t sprint. If you stop to get your shield back, expect a spartan charge.

This argument for or against sprint is a waist of time. The fact of the matter is that some of us like it, some of us hate it, some of us don’t give a -Yoink-. I’ll be strait, I don’t want sprint next game cause I prefer the slow paced arena shooter where it’s not just aim that matters, but mental strategy that wins the match. Currently aside from sprint or not, the game is much too twitchy for me, and sprint is just another thing I’d like to toss to the side given how other shooters like overwatch can win big, and not need it (aside from one guy 76) Just another 2 cents here.

> 2549359074790154;10650:
> > 2533274919539931;10648:
> > > 2535434559461370;10629:
> > > > 2535450703392903;10626:
> > > > > 2535434559461370;10566:
> > > > > > 2535450703392903;10565:
> > > > > > > 2535434559461370;10564:
> > > > > > > > 2535450703392903;10563:
> > > > > > > > > 2535434559461370;10562:
> > > > > > > > > > 2535450703392903;10561:
> > > > > > > > > > I feel like at the crux of this issue is two preferences. People who want tradeoffs in movement and those who do not.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Seeing as halo was founded on the idea of movement without tradeoffs( strafing/jumping without penalties to accuracy), one of those preferences seems to fit halo and one does not.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I personally am not very affected by the trade off.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > So, it wouldn’t really matter if it was removed then would it?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > No, I’d rather it stay. While I got used to entering gunfights, ready, other people still sprint in. I see it as get used to predicting your battles, don’t sprint, or die more.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It’s not a matter of being ready or not. There are things that you just physically cannot do. You cannot move at the optimum speed and shoot in the other directions. You can’t make jumps while shooting someone.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Most jumps are scaled to sprint jumping. Meaning in order to make the jump you have to look directly at it and give up the ability to shoot. Without sprint you can make that jump while looking in any direction. This opens up all kinds of gameplay options.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > With sprint Halo is a very binary game. You are either moving, or shooting. Without sprint, you can do both at all times.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > But that’s not how it really is. I agree that the jumps should be scaled to normal walk speed jumps but still, sprinting and shooting in the opposite direction isn’t in any game, and it wouldn’t be any different without sprinting. Just stop and shoot if you want to shoot someone behind you. Sprinting while shooting in any direction would make you run into things. Except for the jumps, sprinting is only used for faster, one-directional, movement. You shouldn’t be sprinting while fighting, other than while using an energy sword or gravity hammer.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Did you ever play hce, h2 or h3?
> > >
> > >
> > > Yes, I’ve played every halo and was annoyed when I was forced to walk into a tense situation.
> >
> >
> > Even though you can’t fire your weapon when you’re sprinting, it helps you get to the battles faster. All you really have to do to stop sprinting is just let up a bit on the thumb stick, so it usually is a fast transition between the two. Sprint helps a lot in different situations.
>
>
> This… This is a problem right here.
> The mentality for sprint is that if you die, you respawn and get back to the fight. You shouldn’t think with that mentality. You should assess the fact that you died, and then on your “run” back (you’re not walking) to where you died to find that person, you THINK about what you could have done differently so you can not do that again in the future. Sometimes the reason you died is dumb (sniper, sticky, sword) but how many of us have been like… “darn, I should have crouched going in there” or “I should have expected a crouched guy with a sword” … “I should have seen the sniper waiting for me” " I shouldn’t have tried to melee him from that far off" … think about it.
>
> Giving you sprint encourages 3 things. You either leave a battle with enough health to recharge and then re-engage OR you use it to catch up to someone you’ve wounded. or you use it to get back to the battle only to find that your team mates are dead and you’re about to die again. None of these promote dynamic gameplay. Enemy knows there’s little to no risk to charging into an area because they can sprint out of it. Players never think about their actions because they’re immediately re-engaged with another fight and don’t even consider what they did wrong, and all sense of strategy is thrown out the window because you can just exploit sprint to your advantage.
>
> Someone mentioned earlier that they could use sprint to toss the flag and get a movement buff. Is that fair? The enemy team lost their flag, they should have enough time to locate the flag team carrying it back and engage them to get their flag back. If you remove that time by giving the enemy team the ability to move faster than you can catch up, then you’ve ruined a gameplay dynamic and made it one sided.
>
> I know a lot of you are too young to even know what it was like to play over 5,000 games of Halo or Halo 2 multiplayer so you don’t understand some of the fundamental mechanics that made Halo, Halo, but you really should go back and play at least 200 games and discover why Bungie made the game the way they did. Once you get through playing the game without having sprint, you’ll start to see why it’s not needed, and then come to hate it.
>
> Scenario
> Let’s say that you’re in the middle of the map waiting for a weapon to spawn (the notifications that weapons have respawned need to be removed also… but that’s another topic entirely). You spot that there are two people from the enemy team that are advancing towards you. You know in your mind you had either shoot or move. In Halo 2, you would have at least 5 seconds to consider what you wanted to do because of the lack of sprint. Halo 5, you have about 2, and you’re going to probably leave with half your shield and them chasing you to kill you.
>
> How does that benefit you? You can’t heal if you sprint, and you can’t outrun them if you don’t sprint. If you stop to get your shield back, expect a spartan charge.

All of these situations are only true part of the time, sometimes you sprint back to a dead team but sometimes you sprint back to support them, it totally depends on each individual game. And the motion tracker is there to help let you know if you’re running into a sticky situation, so sprint doesn’t really make you that reckless. It’s really the individual player who is reckless or not, who rushes in or not.

I’ll admit, the Halo 5 mechanic where you can’t regain shields when you’re sprinting is dumb and annoying, but Halo should still have sprint, it should just be like the Halo Reach sprint

> 2533274919539931;10647:
> Sprint is a good mechanic to have in first person shooter games, it adds variety and play style to each game. I think every spartan should have it, but there should be perks to mess with the cool down and everything else so that each player can customize sprint for their personal likes.

How does it add variety? Oh, and I’ll be the first one to admit, that the perk- system thing was kinda cool in H4.

i prefer verizon

KEEP SPRINT! PLEASE! #HALO6 DRAMA

> 2533274919539931;10648:
> > 2535434559461370;10629:
> > > 2535450703392903;10626:
> > > > 2535434559461370;10566:
> > > > > 2535450703392903;10565:
> > > > > > 2535434559461370;10564:
> > > > > > > 2535450703392903;10563:
> > > > > > > > 2535434559461370;10562:
> > > > > > > > > 2535450703392903;10561:
> > > > > > > > > I feel like at the crux of this issue is two preferences. People who want tradeoffs in movement and those who do not.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Seeing as halo was founded on the idea of movement without tradeoffs( strafing/jumping without penalties to accuracy), one of those preferences seems to fit halo and one does not.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I personally am not very affected by the trade off.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So, it wouldn’t really matter if it was removed then would it?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > No, I’d rather it stay. While I got used to entering gunfights, ready, other people still sprint in. I see it as get used to predicting your battles, don’t sprint, or die more.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > It’s not a matter of being ready or not. There are things that you just physically cannot do. You cannot move at the optimum speed and shoot in the other directions. You can’t make jumps while shooting someone.
> > > > >
> > > > > Most jumps are scaled to sprint jumping. Meaning in order to make the jump you have to look directly at it and give up the ability to shoot. Without sprint you can make that jump while looking in any direction. This opens up all kinds of gameplay options.
> > > > >
> > > > > With sprint Halo is a very binary game. You are either moving, or shooting. Without sprint, you can do both at all times.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > But that’s not how it really is. I agree that the jumps should be scaled to normal walk speed jumps but still, sprinting and shooting in the opposite direction isn’t in any game, and it wouldn’t be any different without sprinting. Just stop and shoot if you want to shoot someone behind you. Sprinting while shooting in any direction would make you run into things. Except for the jumps, sprinting is only used for faster, one-directional, movement. You shouldn’t be sprinting while fighting, other than while using an energy sword or gravity hammer.
> > >
> > >
> > > Did you ever play hce, h2 or h3?
> >
> >
> > Yes, I’ve played every halo and was annoyed when I was forced to walk into a tense situation.
>
>
> Even though you can’t fire your weapon when you’re sprinting, it helps you get to the battles faster. All you really have to do to stop sprinting is just let up a bit on the thumb stick, so it usually is a fast transition between the two. Sprint helps a lot in different situations.

But if a map designer decided on a certain metric for the map traversal time, sprint only gets you there faster than non-sprint speed, in the same game.
If you took a sprintless game, Halo 3 for example, you get places faster at full BMS, than if you crouch walk.

> 2533274795123910;10656:
> > 2533274919539931;10648:
> > > 2535434559461370;10629:
> > > > 2535450703392903;10626:
> > > > > 2535434559461370;10566:
> > > > > > 2535450703392903;10565:
> > > > > > > 2535434559461370;10564:
> > > > > > > > 2535450703392903;10563:
> > > > > > > > > 2535434559461370;10562:
> > > > > > > > > > 2535450703392903;10561:
> > > > > > > > > > I feel like at the crux of this issue is two preferences. People who want tradeoffs in movement and those who do not.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Seeing as halo was founded on the idea of movement without tradeoffs( strafing/jumping without penalties to accuracy), one of those preferences seems to fit halo and one does not.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I personally am not very affected by the trade off.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > So, it wouldn’t really matter if it was removed then would it?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > No, I’d rather it stay. While I got used to entering gunfights, ready, other people still sprint in. I see it as get used to predicting your battles, don’t sprint, or die more.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It’s not a matter of being ready or not. There are things that you just physically cannot do. You cannot move at the optimum speed and shoot in the other directions. You can’t make jumps while shooting someone.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Most jumps are scaled to sprint jumping. Meaning in order to make the jump you have to look directly at it and give up the ability to shoot. Without sprint you can make that jump while looking in any direction. This opens up all kinds of gameplay options.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > With sprint Halo is a very binary game. You are either moving, or shooting. Without sprint, you can do both at all times.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > But that’s not how it really is. I agree that the jumps should be scaled to normal walk speed jumps but still, sprinting and shooting in the opposite direction isn’t in any game, and it wouldn’t be any different without sprinting. Just stop and shoot if you want to shoot someone behind you. Sprinting while shooting in any direction would make you run into things. Except for the jumps, sprinting is only used for faster, one-directional, movement. You shouldn’t be sprinting while fighting, other than while using an energy sword or gravity hammer.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Did you ever play hce, h2 or h3?
> > >
> > >
> > > Yes, I’ve played every halo and was annoyed when I was forced to walk into a tense situation.
> >
> >
> > Even though you can’t fire your weapon when you’re sprinting, it helps you get to the battles faster. All you really have to do to stop sprinting is just let up a bit on the thumb stick, so it usually is a fast transition between the two. Sprint helps a lot in different situations.
>
>
> But if a map designer decided on a certain metric for the map traversal time, sprint only gets you there faster than non-sprint speed, in the same game.
> If you took a sprintless game, Halo 3 for example, you get places faster at full BMS, than if you crouch walk.

Not entirely true, if you wanted to interupt an engament in H3 or H5 its more than likely you will get there quicker with sprint regardless of map design, although you could argue its forced more engagements at longer distance which isnt entirely true either but both arent without merit, you still have engagements at the same distances in Halo 5 as in Halo 3 sprint allows you to interupt them engagements more quickly if you are in the vacinity, im not defending sprint btw i want it gone for a multitude of reasons, im all for a high BMS no sprint with thruster and slide in full 360 degrees with the ability to shoot

Sprint has never been about getting from red base to blue base faster. If that’s what people wanted, we would just go into forge and put the bases 5 feet away from each other. This is ridiculous. If you constantly stay 10 feet away from cover, sprint gets you there faster. Or it allows you to venture further away from cover, and still manage to make it back to cover in the same amount of time as non sprint.

And as for all this “map stretching” nonsense, every single halo game has it’s maps based off the movement speed in that game. The maps are larger than they used to be. Whether you enjoy that or not is subjective, but imo it’s only a good thing. People are acting as if the older map sizes are the default and the absolute ideal map size.

Higher BMS would ruin Halo. Have you played Doom? It’s ridiculous. You’re zipping and zooming all over the place like a dang air hockey puck. That’s absolutely horrible for Halo’s gunfights.

Have you gone back and played Halo 1-3 after getting used to sprint? It’s absolutely painful how slow you travel. (And yes, I’m sure a few people have and love being a snail)

The good thing about having sprint is it keeps the gunfights at a slow comfortable speed, while allowing you to get to the next area faster in between gunfights as opposed to moving like a snail (or at least feel like you are if you’re going for the map stretching argument). My team mate is getting shot? OMG let me walk over there real quick. Be right there buddy!

The maps have to be specifically designed AROUND sprint. Non sprint games have their maps specifically designed AROUND not having sprint. Every single game out there has it’s maps specifically designed around the mechanics in that specific game. This is a stupid argument for why sprint is bad.

And the polls on this site are absolutely ridiculous. 90% of the people who come here come to complain about something they want changed. That’s always going to skew numbers

> 2759795128799702;10658:
> Sprint has never been about getting from red base to blue base faster. If that’s what people wanted, we would just go into forge and put the bases 5 feet away from each other. This is ridiculous. If you constantly stay 10 feet away from cover, sprint gets you there faster. Or it allows you to venture further away from cover, and still manage to make it back to cover in the same amount of time as non sprint.
>
> And as for all this “map stretching” nonsense, every single halo game has it’s maps based off the movement speed in that game. The maps are larger than they used to be. Whether you enjoy that or not is subjective, but imo it’s only a good thing. People are acting as if the older map sizes are the default and the absolute ideal map size.
>
> Higher BMS would ruin Halo. Have you played Doom? It’s ridiculous. You’re zipping and zooming all over the place like a dang air hockey puck. That’s absolutely horrible for Halo’s gunfights.
>
> Have you gone back and played Halo 1-3 after getting used to sprint? It’s absolutely painful how slow you travel. (And yes, I’m sure a few people have and love being a snail)
>
> The good thing about having sprint is it keeps the gunfights at a slow comfortable speed, while allowing you to get to the next area faster in between gunfights as opposed to moving like a snail (or at least feel like you are if you’re going for the map stretching argument). My team mate is getting shot? OMG let me walk over there real quick. Be right there buddy!
>
> The maps have to be specifically designed AROUND sprint. Non sprint games have their maps specifically designed AROUND not having sprint. Every single game out there has it’s maps specifically designed around the mechanics in that specific game. This is a stupid argument for why sprint is bad.
>
> And the polls on this site are absolutely ridiculous. 90% of the people who come here come to complain about something they want changed. That’s always going to skew numbers

Doom BMS would ruin halo? If we put doom BMS on halo size maps we would have fast paced gameplay with lots of action. How would a faster pace ruin halo?

> 2533275035781111;10659:
> > 2759795128799702;10658:
> > Sprint has never been about getting from red base to blue base faster. If that’s what people wanted, we would just go into forge and put the bases 5 feet away from each other. This is ridiculous. If you constantly stay 10 feet away from cover, sprint gets you there faster. Or it allows you to venture further away from cover, and still manage to make it back to cover in the same amount of time as non sprint.
> >
> > And as for all this “map stretching” nonsense, every single halo game has it’s maps based off the movement speed in that game. The maps are larger than they used to be. Whether you enjoy that or not is subjective, but imo it’s only a good thing. People are acting as if the older map sizes are the default and the absolute ideal map size.
> >
> > Higher BMS would ruin Halo. Have you played Doom? It’s ridiculous. You’re zipping and zooming all over the place like a dang air hockey puck. That’s absolutely horrible for Halo’s gunfights.
> >
> > Have you gone back and played Halo 1-3 after getting used to sprint? It’s absolutely painful how slow you travel. (And yes, I’m sure a few people have and love being a snail)
> >
> > The good thing about having sprint is it keeps the gunfights at a slow comfortable speed, while allowing you to get to the next area faster in between gunfights as opposed to moving like a snail (or at least feel like you are if you’re going for the map stretching argument). My team mate is getting shot? OMG let me walk over there real quick. Be right there buddy!
> >
> > The maps have to be specifically designed AROUND sprint. Non sprint games have their maps specifically designed AROUND not having sprint. Every single game out there has it’s maps specifically designed around the mechanics in that specific game. This is a stupid argument for why sprint is bad.
> >
> > And the polls on this site are absolutely ridiculous. 90% of the people who come here come to complain about something they want changed. That’s always going to skew numbers
>
>
> Doom BMS would ruin halo? If we put doom BMS on halo size maps we would have fast paced gameplay with lots of action. How would a faster pace ruin halo?

Halo’s TTK is too long. If we had doom’s BMS, players would be half way across the map before you had enough time to fire 4 shots from a BR. You would either have to reduce the TTK, or reduce the BMS.

> 2759795128799702;10658:
> Sprint has never been about getting from red base to blue base faster. If that’s what people wanted, we would just go into forge and put the bases 5 feet away from each other. This is ridiculous. If you constantly stay 10 feet away from cover, sprint gets you there faster. Or it allows you to venture further away from cover, and still manage to make it back to cover in the same amount of time as non sprint.
>
> And as for all this “map stretching” nonsense, every single halo game has it’s maps based off the movement speed in that game. The maps are larger than they used to be. Whether you enjoy that or not is subjective, but imo it’s only a good thing. People are acting as if the older map sizes are the default and the absolute ideal map size.
>
> Higher BMS would ruin Halo. Have you played Doom? It’s ridiculous. You’re zipping and zooming all over the place like a dang air hockey puck. That’s absolutely horrible for Halo’s gunfights.
>
> Have you gone back and played Halo 1-3 after getting used to sprint? It’s absolutely painful how slow you travel. (And yes, I’m sure a few people have and love being a snail)
>
> The good thing about having sprint is it keeps the gunfights at a slow comfortable speed, while allowing you to get to the next area faster in between gunfights as opposed to moving like a snail (or at least feel like you are if you’re going for the map stretching argument). My team mate is getting shot? OMG let me walk over there real quick. Be right there buddy!
>
> The maps have to be specifically designed AROUND sprint. Non sprint games have their maps specifically designed AROUND not having sprint. Every single game out there has it’s maps specifically designed around the mechanics in that specific game. This is a stupid argument for why sprint is bad.
>
> And the polls on this site are absolutely ridiculous. 90% of the people who come here come to complain about something they want changed. That’s always going to skew numbers

First, cover could also be put closer and it is in classic Halos.

You say that these big maps are great, but you seem to forget that now the maps, or parts of the maps have been designed around sprint, but not around combat, which is why the combat often feels so random in this game.
The weapon sandbox has also been designed around sprint or the bigger maps, I mean a lot of aim assist and bullet magnetism, weapons like the Br, Magnum, Dmr and Carbine have unlimited range and those are hit-scan weapons and the Ar can kill a player in 2 seconds at 70 meters.

Why does the player need to be fast?

What’s wrong with long travel times? I’m sure we can all agree that CE had the fastest pace.

Not sure what a gunfights speed is or how it’s measured. But if we took sprint out and the maps were designed around BMS, you would be able to help that friend out just as fast.

I agree that the polls suck and should not be trusted.

Now, you should try harder to explain why sprint is a good thing. Also, what about the bad sides of sprint, like it discourages good positioning, double melees/charges, which are unskillful/unfair and the RNG element that sprint brings, because you can’t know what speeds people are moving, so it’s impossible to predict flow?

> 2759795128799702;10660:
> > 2533275035781111;10659:
> > > 2759795128799702;10658:
> > > Sprint has never been about getting from red base to blue base faster. If that’s what people wanted, we would just go into forge and put the bases 5 feet away from each other. This is ridiculous. If you constantly stay 10 feet away from cover, sprint gets you there faster. Or it allows you to venture further away from cover, and still manage to make it back to cover in the same amount of time as non sprint.
> > >
> > > And as for all this “map stretching” nonsense, every single halo game has it’s maps based off the movement speed in that game. The maps are larger than they used to be. Whether you enjoy that or not is subjective, but imo it’s only a good thing. People are acting as if the older map sizes are the default and the absolute ideal map size.
> > >
> > > Higher BMS would ruin Halo. Have you played Doom? It’s ridiculous. You’re zipping and zooming all over the place like a dang air hockey puck. That’s absolutely horrible for Halo’s gunfights.
> > >
> > > Have you gone back and played Halo 1-3 after getting used to sprint? It’s absolutely painful how slow you travel. (And yes, I’m sure a few people have and love being a snail)
> > >
> > > The good thing about having sprint is it keeps the gunfights at a slow comfortable speed, while allowing you to get to the next area faster in between gunfights as opposed to moving like a snail (or at least feel like you are if you’re going for the map stretching argument). My team mate is getting shot? OMG let me walk over there real quick. Be right there buddy!
> > >
> > > The maps have to be specifically designed AROUND sprint. Non sprint games have their maps specifically designed AROUND not having sprint. Every single game out there has it’s maps specifically designed around the mechanics in that specific game. This is a stupid argument for why sprint is bad.
> > >
> > > And the polls on this site are absolutely ridiculous. 90% of the people who come here come to complain about something they want changed. That’s always going to skew numbers
> >
> >
> > Doom BMS would ruin halo? If we put doom BMS on halo size maps we would have fast paced gameplay with lots of action. How would a faster pace ruin halo?
>
>
> Halo’s TTK is too long. If we had doom’s BMS, players would be half way across the map before you had enough time to fire 4 shots from a BR. You would either have to reduce the TTK, or reduce the BMS.

Now your just excessively exaggerating the issue. Doom BMS isn’t that incredibly fast as you seem to think nor is its ttk very low.

> 2533274943854776;10661:
> > 2759795128799702;10658:
> >
>
>
>
> The weapon sandbox has also been designed around sprint or the bigger maps, I mean a lot of aim assist and bullet magnetism, weapons like the Br, Magnum, Dmr and Carbine have unlimited range and those are hit-scan weapons and the Ar can kill a player in 2 seconds at 70 meters.

That’s probably more do to the thrusting and sliding than sprint. The sudden unpredictable jerky movement of a Spartan throws aiming off quite a bit. Granted I’m sure sprint does play a little bit into it, but I feel like hitting a sprinting Spartan really isn’t that hard. Their movement paths are pretty predictable once they start sprinting.

Players don’t need to be fast. Some people enjoy it, some don’t. (subjective)

Long travel times are boring, tedious, and kill the adrenaline (subjective)

Just because the map is smaller doesn’t mean your friend that needs help will be closer. Typically you will always try to stick somewhat close together, no matter how big the map is. Sprint will get you to your friend that is 50 feet away faster, no matter what the map size is.

Not saying there are no downsides to sprint, was really just a short rant addressing some of the bad arguments against sprint. I’ve seen horrible reasons for both sides.