> 2533274943854776;10622:
> I feel like dear Josh didn’t put a lot of effort into telling people why sprint is in H5. He came at us with: It’s immersive, people expect it and it adds tactical options which add no depth making them pointless. He didn’t say: “It makes the gameplay faster”, and he didn’t even look at the negative sides of sprint.
I think that’s a bit unfair. He did put significant effort into it. It’s just that the audience he was addressing (TeamBeyond specifically, and the anti-sprint crowd in general) doesn’t find these arguments convincing. His explanation gives us a glimpse at what the decisions at 343i have already shown us: they’re not interested in creating a deep game, but an immersive universe. And I have to admit, there’s nothing inherently wrong with that. It’s just not the same priority order that we—the people who want a deep, challenging game—have.
If you take a look at the issue from their perspective for a moment, there is nothing alarmingly wrong with sprint. It does its job, and it doesn’t break the game (i.e., it doesn’t make the game any less playable for the average player).
The only problem is, he’s just not appealing to the audience he’s addressing, which is probably partly because he simply can’t, because no meaningful depth comes from sprint, and partly because he feels like he doesn’t need to. After all, he was only really explaining the internal thought process why 343i thinks halo should have sprint, not why the competitive community should like sprint. Why he wanted to do that, at the Beyond forums of all places where he must’ve known he wouldn’t find sympathy, I don’t know. But his intentions weren’t what people take them as. After all, he prefaced the whole thing with that: “Not trying or expecting to convince anyone, just hoping to shed some light.”
> 2533274825830455;10624:
> > 2533274943854776;10622:
> > I feel like dear Josh didn’t put a lot of effort into telling people why sprint is in H5. He came at us with: It’s immersive, people expect it and it adds tactical options which add no depth making them pointless. He didn’t say: “It makes the gameplay faster”, and he didn’t even look at the negative sides of sprint.
>
>
> I think that’s a bit unfair. He did put significant effort into it. It’s just that the audience he was addressing (TeamBeyond specifically, and the anti-sprint crowd in general) doesn’t find these arguments convincing. His explanation gives us a glimpse at what the decisions at 343i have already shown us: they’re not interested in creating a deep game, but an immersive universe. And I have to admit, there’s nothing inherently wrong with that. It’s just not the same priority order that we—the people who want a deep, challenging game—have.
>
> If you take a look at the issue from their perspective for a moment, there is nothing alarmingly wrong with sprint. It does its job, and it doesn’t break the game (i.e., it doesn’t make the game any less playable for the average player).
>
> The only problem is, he’s just not appealing to the audience he’s addressing, which is probably partly because he simply can’t, because no meaningful depth comes from sprint, and partly because he feels like he doesn’t need to. After all, he was only really explaining the internal thought process why 343i thinks halo should have sprint, not why the competitive community should like sprint. Why he wanted to do that, at the Beyond forums of all places where he must’ve known he wouldn’t find sympathy, I don’t know. But his intentions weren’t what people take them as. After all, he prefaced the whole thing with that: “Not trying or expecting to convince anyone, just hoping to shed some light.”
Is there a phrase that serves a purpose as the opposite of “preaching to the choir”? If there is, Josh was actively doing that lol. He was… selling meat to vegans? Can we make that phrase stick? Well he wasn’t really selling it more just explaining it. Explaining meat to vegans?
> 2535434559461370;10566:
> > 2535450703392903;10565:
> > > 2535434559461370;10564:
> > > > 2535450703392903;10563:
> > > > > 2535434559461370;10562:
> > > > > > 2535450703392903;10561:
> > > > > > I feel like at the crux of this issue is two preferences. People who want tradeoffs in movement and those who do not.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Seeing as halo was founded on the idea of movement without tradeoffs( strafing/jumping without penalties to accuracy), one of those preferences seems to fit halo and one does not.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I personally am not very affected by the trade off.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > So, it wouldn’t really matter if it was removed then would it?
> > >
> > >
> > > No, I’d rather it stay. While I got used to entering gunfights, ready, other people still sprint in. I see it as get used to predicting your battles, don’t sprint, or die more.
> >
> >
> > It’s not a matter of being ready or not. There are things that you just physically cannot do. You cannot move at the optimum speed and shoot in the other directions. You can’t make jumps while shooting someone.
> >
> > Most jumps are scaled to sprint jumping. Meaning in order to make the jump you have to look directly at it and give up the ability to shoot. Without sprint you can make that jump while looking in any direction. This opens up all kinds of gameplay options.
> >
> > With sprint Halo is a very binary game. You are either moving, or shooting. Without sprint, you can do both at all times.
>
>
> But that’s not how it really is. I agree that the jumps should be scaled to normal walk speed jumps but still, sprinting and shooting in the opposite direction isn’t in any game, and it wouldn’t be any different without sprinting. Just stop and shoot if you want to shoot someone behind you. Sprinting while shooting in any direction would make you run into things. Except for the jumps, sprinting is only used for faster, one-directional, movement. You shouldn’t be sprinting while fighting, other than while using an energy sword or gravity hammer.
> 2533274825830455;10624:
> > 2533274943854776;10622:
> > I feel like dear Josh didn’t put a lot of effort into telling people why sprint is in H5. He came at us with: It’s immersive, people expect it and it adds tactical options which add no depth making them pointless. He didn’t say: “It makes the gameplay faster”, and he didn’t even look at the negative sides of sprint.
>
>
> I think that’s a bit unfair. He did put significant effort into it. It’s just that the audience he was addressing (TeamBeyond specifically, and the anti-sprint crowd in general) doesn’t find these arguments convincing. His explanation gives us a glimpse at what the decisions at 343i have already shown us: they’re not interested in creating a deep game, but an immersive universe. And I have to admit, there’s nothing inherently wrong with that. It’s just not the same priority order that we—the people who want a deep, challenging game—have.
>
> If you take a look at the issue from their perspective for a moment, there is nothing alarmingly wrong with sprint. It does its job, and it doesn’t break the game (i.e., it doesn’t make the game any less playable for the average player).
>
> The only problem is, he’s just not appealing to the audience he’s addressing, which is probably partly because he simply can’t, because no meaningful depth comes from sprint, and partly because he feels like he doesn’t need to. After all, he was only really explaining the internal thought process why 343i thinks halo should have sprint, not why the competitive community should like sprint. Why he wanted to do that, at the Beyond forums of all places where he must’ve known he wouldn’t find sympathy, I don’t know. But his intentions weren’t what people take them as. After all, he prefaced the whole thing with that: “Not trying or expecting to convince anyone, just hoping to shed some light.”
I see…
This is an interesting perspective. “An immersive universe”- Whatever that means. I understand where they’re coming from.
The reason I used to get so angry at 343i is that we were here first. They didn’t earn their fan base. But is it possible that 343 doesn’t want me around anymore? If it was up to me, the next Halo would Halo 1,5. They put so much effort into the Pro league, they hired some pros like Gho57ayame and Neighbor and generally tried to advertise H5 as this super competitively deep Halo and yet H5s competitive capasity is at the verge of multi-organ failure. Is it that I’m just not their target audience? Or should I just eat more vegetables?
> 2533274943854776;10627:
> > 2533274825830455;10624:
> > > 2533274943854776;10622:
> > > I feel like dear Josh didn’t put a lot of effort into telling people why sprint is in H5. He came at us with: It’s immersive, people expect it and it adds tactical options which add no depth making them pointless. He didn’t say: “It makes the gameplay faster”, and he didn’t even look at the negative sides of sprint.
> >
> >
> > I think that’s a bit unfair. He did put significant effort into it. It’s just that the audience he was addressing (TeamBeyond specifically, and the anti-sprint crowd in general) doesn’t find these arguments convincing. His explanation gives us a glimpse at what the decisions at 343i have already shown us: they’re not interested in creating a deep game, but an immersive universe. And I have to admit, there’s nothing inherently wrong with that. It’s just not the same priority order that we—the people who want a deep, challenging game—have.
> >
> > If you take a look at the issue from their perspective for a moment, there is nothing alarmingly wrong with sprint. It does its job, and it doesn’t break the game (i.e., it doesn’t make the game any less playable for the average player).
> >
> > The only problem is, he’s just not appealing to the audience he’s addressing, which is probably partly because he simply can’t, because no meaningful depth comes from sprint, and partly because he feels like he doesn’t need to. After all, he was only really explaining the internal thought process why 343i thinks halo should have sprint, not why the competitive community should like sprint. Why he wanted to do that, at the Beyond forums of all places where he must’ve known he wouldn’t find sympathy, I don’t know. But his intentions weren’t what people take them as. After all, he prefaced the whole thing with that: “Not trying or expecting to convince anyone, just hoping to shed some light.”
>
>
> I see…
> This is an interesting perspective. “An immersive universe”- Whatever that means. I understand where they’re coming from.
>
> The reason I used to get so angry at 343i is that we were here first. They didn’t earn their fan base. But is it possible that 343 doesn’t want me around anymore? If it was up to me, the next Halo would Halo 1,5. They put so much effort into the Pro league, they hired some pros like Gho57ayame and Neighbor and generally tried to advertise H5 as this super competitively deep Halo and yet H5s competitive capasity is at the verge of multi-organ failure. Is it that I’m just not their target audience? Or should I just eat more vegetables?
It’s possible to satisfy multiple Halo audiences, 343 just doesn’t know how despite the fact that it’s been done before.
> 2535450703392903;10626:
> > 2535434559461370;10566:
> > > 2535450703392903;10565:
> > > > 2535434559461370;10564:
> > > > > 2535450703392903;10563:
> > > > > > 2535434559461370;10562:
> > > > > > > 2535450703392903;10561:
> > > > > > > I feel like at the crux of this issue is two preferences. People who want tradeoffs in movement and those who do not.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Seeing as halo was founded on the idea of movement without tradeoffs( strafing/jumping without penalties to accuracy), one of those preferences seems to fit halo and one does not.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I personally am not very affected by the trade off.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > So, it wouldn’t really matter if it was removed then would it?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > No, I’d rather it stay. While I got used to entering gunfights, ready, other people still sprint in. I see it as get used to predicting your battles, don’t sprint, or die more.
> > >
> > >
> > > It’s not a matter of being ready or not. There are things that you just physically cannot do. You cannot move at the optimum speed and shoot in the other directions. You can’t make jumps while shooting someone.
> > >
> > > Most jumps are scaled to sprint jumping. Meaning in order to make the jump you have to look directly at it and give up the ability to shoot. Without sprint you can make that jump while looking in any direction. This opens up all kinds of gameplay options.
> > >
> > > With sprint Halo is a very binary game. You are either moving, or shooting. Without sprint, you can do both at all times.
> >
> >
> > But that’s not how it really is. I agree that the jumps should be scaled to normal walk speed jumps but still, sprinting and shooting in the opposite direction isn’t in any game, and it wouldn’t be any different without sprinting. Just stop and shoot if you want to shoot someone behind you. Sprinting while shooting in any direction would make you run into things. Except for the jumps, sprinting is only used for faster, one-directional, movement. You shouldn’t be sprinting while fighting, other than while using an energy sword or gravity hammer.
>
>
> Did you ever play hce, h2 or h3?
Yes, I’ve played every halo and was annoyed when I was forced to walk into a tense situation.
> 2535434559461370;10629:
> > 2535450703392903;10626:
> > > 2535434559461370;10566:
> > > > 2535450703392903;10565:
> > > > > 2535434559461370;10564:
> > > > > > 2535450703392903;10563:
> > > > > > > 2535434559461370;10562:
> > > > > > > > 2535450703392903;10561:
> > > > > > > > I feel like at the crux of this issue is two preferences. People who want tradeoffs in movement and those who do not.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Seeing as halo was founded on the idea of movement without tradeoffs( strafing/jumping without penalties to accuracy), one of those preferences seems to fit halo and one does not.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I personally am not very affected by the trade off.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So, it wouldn’t really matter if it was removed then would it?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > No, I’d rather it stay. While I got used to entering gunfights, ready, other people still sprint in. I see it as get used to predicting your battles, don’t sprint, or die more.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > It’s not a matter of being ready or not. There are things that you just physically cannot do. You cannot move at the optimum speed and shoot in the other directions. You can’t make jumps while shooting someone.
> > > >
> > > > Most jumps are scaled to sprint jumping. Meaning in order to make the jump you have to look directly at it and give up the ability to shoot. Without sprint you can make that jump while looking in any direction. This opens up all kinds of gameplay options.
> > > >
> > > > With sprint Halo is a very binary game. You are either moving, or shooting. Without sprint, you can do both at all times.
> > >
> > >
> > > But that’s not how it really is. I agree that the jumps should be scaled to normal walk speed jumps but still, sprinting and shooting in the opposite direction isn’t in any game, and it wouldn’t be any different without sprinting. Just stop and shoot if you want to shoot someone behind you. Sprinting while shooting in any direction would make you run into things. Except for the jumps, sprinting is only used for faster, one-directional, movement. You shouldn’t be sprinting while fighting, other than while using an energy sword or gravity hammer.
> >
> >
> > Did you ever play hce, h2 or h3?
>
>
> Yes, I’ve played every halo and was annoyed when I was forced to walk into a tense situation.
But you realise you could make jumps and traverse the maps while shooting in different directions right?
> 2535450703392903;10630:
> > 2535434559461370;10629:
> > > 2535450703392903;10626:
> > > > 2535434559461370;10566:
> > > > > 2535450703392903;10565:
> > > > > > 2535434559461370;10564:
> > > > > > > 2535450703392903;10563:
> > > > > > > > 2535434559461370;10562:
> > > > > > > > > 2535450703392903;10561:
> > > > > > > > > I feel like at the crux of this issue is two preferences. People who want tradeoffs in movement and those who do not.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Seeing as halo was founded on the idea of movement without tradeoffs( strafing/jumping without penalties to accuracy), one of those preferences seems to fit halo and one does not.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I personally am not very affected by the trade off.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So, it wouldn’t really matter if it was removed then would it?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > No, I’d rather it stay. While I got used to entering gunfights, ready, other people still sprint in. I see it as get used to predicting your battles, don’t sprint, or die more.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > It’s not a matter of being ready or not. There are things that you just physically cannot do. You cannot move at the optimum speed and shoot in the other directions. You can’t make jumps while shooting someone.
> > > > >
> > > > > Most jumps are scaled to sprint jumping. Meaning in order to make the jump you have to look directly at it and give up the ability to shoot. Without sprint you can make that jump while looking in any direction. This opens up all kinds of gameplay options.
> > > > >
> > > > > With sprint Halo is a very binary game. You are either moving, or shooting. Without sprint, you can do both at all times.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > But that’s not how it really is. I agree that the jumps should be scaled to normal walk speed jumps but still, sprinting and shooting in the opposite direction isn’t in any game, and it wouldn’t be any different without sprinting. Just stop and shoot if you want to shoot someone behind you. Sprinting while shooting in any direction would make you run into things. Except for the jumps, sprinting is only used for faster, one-directional, movement. You shouldn’t be sprinting while fighting, other than while using an energy sword or gravity hammer.
> > >
> > >
> > > Did you ever play hce, h2 or h3?
> >
> >
> > Yes, I’ve played every halo and was annoyed when I was forced to walk into a tense situation.
>
>
> But you realise you could make jumps and traverse the maps while shooting in different directions right?
So then I didn’t sprint in the fight, only used it to get there. Nobody is forced to sprint and it is entirely the players choice to sprint or not.
> 2533274825830455;10624:
> > 2533274943854776;10622:
> > I feel like dear Josh didn’t put a lot of effort into telling people why sprint is in H5. He came at us with: It’s immersive, people expect it and it adds tactical options which add no depth making them pointless. He didn’t say: “It makes the gameplay faster”, and he didn’t even look at the negative sides of sprint.
>
>
> I think that’s a bit unfair. He did put significant effort into it. It’s just that the audience he was addressing (TeamBeyond specifically, and the anti-sprint crowd in general) doesn’t find these arguments convincing. His explanation gives us a glimpse at what the decisions at 343i have already shown us: they’re not interested in creating a deep game, but an immersive universe. And I have to admit, there’s nothing inherently wrong with that. It’s just not the same priority order that we—the people who want a deep, challenging game—have.
>
> If you take a look at the issue from their perspective for a moment, there is nothing alarmingly wrong with sprint. It does its job, and it doesn’t break the game (i.e., it doesn’t make the game any less playable for the average player).
>
> The only problem is, he’s just not appealing to the audience he’s addressing, which is probably partly because he simply can’t, because no meaningful depth comes from sprint, and partly because he feels like he doesn’t need to. After all, he was only really explaining the internal thought process why 343i thinks halo should have sprint, not why the competitive community should like sprint. Why he wanted to do that, at the Beyond forums of all places where he must’ve known he wouldn’t find sympathy, I don’t know. But his intentions weren’t what people take them as. After all, he prefaced the whole thing with that: “Not trying or expecting to convince anyone, just hoping to shed some light.”
You can’t please everyone and from this discussion thread, everyone can see that there’s always going to be a split in the community over whether or not Sprint should stay with Halo
> 2535434559461370;10631:
> > 2535450703392903;10630:
> > > 2535434559461370;10629:
> > > > 2535450703392903;10626:
> > > > > 2535434559461370;10566:
> > > > > > 2535450703392903;10565:
> > > > > > > 2535434559461370;10564:
> > > > > > > > 2535450703392903;10563:
> > > > > > > > > 2535434559461370;10562:
> > > > > > > > > > 2535450703392903;10561:
> > > > > > > > > > I feel like at the crux of this issue is two preferences. People who want tradeoffs in movement and those who do not.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Seeing as halo was founded on the idea of movement without tradeoffs( strafing/jumping without penalties to accuracy), one of those preferences seems to fit halo and one does not.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I personally am not very affected by the trade off.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > So, it wouldn’t really matter if it was removed then would it?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > No, I’d rather it stay. While I got used to entering gunfights, ready, other people still sprint in. I see it as get used to predicting your battles, don’t sprint, or die more.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It’s not a matter of being ready or not. There are things that you just physically cannot do. You cannot move at the optimum speed and shoot in the other directions. You can’t make jumps while shooting someone.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Most jumps are scaled to sprint jumping. Meaning in order to make the jump you have to look directly at it and give up the ability to shoot. Without sprint you can make that jump while looking in any direction. This opens up all kinds of gameplay options.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > With sprint Halo is a very binary game. You are either moving, or shooting. Without sprint, you can do both at all times.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > But that’s not how it really is. I agree that the jumps should be scaled to normal walk speed jumps but still, sprinting and shooting in the opposite direction isn’t in any game, and it wouldn’t be any different without sprinting. Just stop and shoot if you want to shoot someone behind you. Sprinting while shooting in any direction would make you run into things. Except for the jumps, sprinting is only used for faster, one-directional, movement. You shouldn’t be sprinting while fighting, other than while using an energy sword or gravity hammer.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Did you ever play hce, h2 or h3?
> > >
> > >
> > > Yes, I’ve played every halo and was annoyed when I was forced to walk into a tense situation.
> >
> >
> > But you realise you could make jumps and traverse the maps while shooting in different directions right?
>
>
> So then I didn’t sprint in the fight, only used it to get there. Nobody is forced to sprint and it is entirely the players choice to sprint or not.
No, you have to sprint in order to make numerous jumps. It’s not a choice.
> 2535434559461370;10631:
> > 2535450703392903;10630:
> > > 2535434559461370;10629:
> > > > 2535450703392903;10626:
> > > > > 2535434559461370;10566:
> > > > > > 2535450703392903;10565:
> > > > > > > 2535434559461370;10564:
> > > > > > > > 2535450703392903;10563:
> > > > > > > > > 2535434559461370;10562:
> > > > > > > > > > 2535450703392903;10561:
> > > > > > > > > > I feel like at the crux of this issue is two preferences. People who want tradeoffs in movement and those who do not.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Seeing as halo was founded on the idea of movement without tradeoffs( strafing/jumping without penalties to accuracy), one of those preferences seems to fit halo and one does not.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I personally am not very affected by the trade off.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > So, it wouldn’t really matter if it was removed then would it?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > No, I’d rather it stay. While I got used to entering gunfights, ready, other people still sprint in. I see it as get used to predicting your battles, don’t sprint, or die more.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It’s not a matter of being ready or not. There are things that you just physically cannot do. You cannot move at the optimum speed and shoot in the other directions. You can’t make jumps while shooting someone.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Most jumps are scaled to sprint jumping. Meaning in order to make the jump you have to look directly at it and give up the ability to shoot. Without sprint you can make that jump while looking in any direction. This opens up all kinds of gameplay options.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > With sprint Halo is a very binary game. You are either moving, or shooting. Without sprint, you can do both at all times.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > But that’s not how it really is. I agree that the jumps should be scaled to normal walk speed jumps but still, sprinting and shooting in the opposite direction isn’t in any game, and it wouldn’t be any different without sprinting. Just stop and shoot if you want to shoot someone behind you. Sprinting while shooting in any direction would make you run into things. Except for the jumps, sprinting is only used for faster, one-directional, movement. You shouldn’t be sprinting while fighting, other than while using an energy sword or gravity hammer.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Did you ever play hce, h2 or h3?
> > >
> > >
> > > Yes, I’ve played every halo and was annoyed when I was forced to walk into a tense situation.
> >
> >
> > But you realise you could make jumps and traverse the maps while shooting in different directions right?
>
>
> So then I didn’t sprint in the fight, only used it to get there. Nobody is forced to sprint and it is entirely the players choice to sprint or not.
Go ahead and don’t sprint to power weapons and positions at the very start of the game. See what happens.
> 2535434559461370;10631:
> > 2535450703392903;10630:
> > > 2535434559461370;10629:
> > > > 2535450703392903;10626:
> > > > > 2535434559461370;10566:
> > > > > > 2535450703392903;10565:
> > > > > > > 2535434559461370;10564:
> > > > > > > > 2535450703392903;10563:
> > > > > > > > > 2535434559461370;10562:
> > > > > > > > > > 2535450703392903;10561:
> > > > > > > > > > I feel like at the crux of this issue is two preferences. People who want tradeoffs in movement and those who do not.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Seeing as halo was founded on the idea of movement without tradeoffs( strafing/jumping without penalties to accuracy), one of those preferences seems to fit halo and one does not.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I personally am not very affected by the trade off.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > So, it wouldn’t really matter if it was removed then would it?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > No, I’d rather it stay. While I got used to entering gunfights, ready, other people still sprint in. I see it as get used to predicting your battles, don’t sprint, or die more.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > It’s not a matter of being ready or not. There are things that you just physically cannot do. You cannot move at the optimum speed and shoot in the other directions. You can’t make jumps while shooting someone.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Most jumps are scaled to sprint jumping. Meaning in order to make the jump you have to look directly at it and give up the ability to shoot. Without sprint you can make that jump while looking in any direction. This opens up all kinds of gameplay options.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > With sprint Halo is a very binary game. You are either moving, or shooting. Without sprint, you can do both at all times.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > But that’s not how it really is. I agree that the jumps should be scaled to normal walk speed jumps but still, sprinting and shooting in the opposite direction isn’t in any game, and it wouldn’t be any different without sprinting. Just stop and shoot if you want to shoot someone behind you. Sprinting while shooting in any direction would make you run into things. Except for the jumps, sprinting is only used for faster, one-directional, movement. You shouldn’t be sprinting while fighting, other than while using an energy sword or gravity hammer.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Did you ever play hce, h2 or h3?
> > >
> > >
> > > Yes, I’ve played every halo and was annoyed when I was forced to walk into a tense situation.
> >
> >
> > But you realise you could make jumps and traverse the maps while shooting in different directions right?
>
>
> So then I didn’t sprint in the fight, only used it to get there. Nobody is forced to sprint and it is entirely the players choice to sprint or not.
By that logic, you don’t have to fire your weapon either. No one is forced to fire and it is entirely the player’s choice to fire or not.
That doesn’t address anything at all. You are still unable to move optimally and remain combat ready at the same time. This is the issue. Your oblivious psychological need to feel like you’re rushing is exactly the impulse to which this kind of gimmick is designed to appeal. In previous games, you got from place to place in the same time, because maps were smaller and other mechanics (like teleporters) were used to optimize travel times. You are not “walking” in those games. You just aren’t lowering your weapon, pumping your arms, swaying your head, etc. There is no heavy breathing; no “woosh” of air moving past you; no speed lines. These are ALL visual and audio cues designed to cultivate the illusion of urgency and speed. This illusion of speed that appeals to your personal sense of impatience could easily be created without a detrimental mechanic like sprint. Things like a wider field of view, increased base movement speed, perhaps some visual and audio cues to reinforce the sense of speed when moving at maximum base movement speed, more teleporters, maps that AREN’T scaled for sprint, and so on. This is the POINT of this thread, and yet you continue to provide ignorant cliches in response. This is exactly why the perspective of players like you is not useful. You fundamentally DO NOT understand the issue.
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> > > > > > > > > > > I feel like at the crux of this issue is two preferences. People who want tradeoffs in movement and those who do not.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Seeing as halo was founded on the idea of movement without tradeoffs( strafing/jumping without penalties to accuracy), one of those preferences seems to fit halo and one does not.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I personally am not very affected by the trade off.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > So, it wouldn’t really matter if it was removed then would it?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > No, I’d rather it stay. While I got used to entering gunfights, ready, other people still sprint in. I see it as get used to predicting your battles, don’t sprint, or die more.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > It’s not a matter of being ready or not. There are things that you just physically cannot do. You cannot move at the optimum speed and shoot in the other directions. You can’t make jumps while shooting someone.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Most jumps are scaled to sprint jumping. Meaning in order to make the jump you have to look directly at it and give up the ability to shoot. Without sprint you can make that jump while looking in any direction. This opens up all kinds of gameplay options.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > With sprint Halo is a very binary game. You are either moving, or shooting. Without sprint, you can do both at all times.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > But that’s not how it really is. I agree that the jumps should be scaled to normal walk speed jumps but still, sprinting and shooting in the opposite direction isn’t in any game, and it wouldn’t be any different without sprinting. Just stop and shoot if you want to shoot someone behind you. Sprinting while shooting in any direction would make you run into things. Except for the jumps, sprinting is only used for faster, one-directional, movement. You shouldn’t be sprinting while fighting, other than while using an energy sword or gravity hammer.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Did you ever play hce, h2 or h3?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Yes, I’ve played every halo and was annoyed when I was forced to walk into a tense situation.
> > >
> > >
> > > But you realise you could make jumps and traverse the maps while shooting in different directions right?
> >
> >
> > So then I didn’t sprint in the fight, only used it to get there. Nobody is forced to sprint and it is entirely the players choice to sprint or not.
>
>
> By that logic, you don’t have to fire your weapon either. No one is forced to fire and it is entirely the player’s choice to fire or not.
>
> That doesn’t address anything at all. You are still unable to move optimally and remain combat ready at the same time. This is the issue. Your oblivious psychological need to feel like you’re rushing is exactly the impulse to which this kind of gimmick is designed to appeal. In previous games, you got from place to place in the same time, because maps were smaller and other mechanics (like teleporters) were used to optimize travel times. You are not “walking” in those games. You just aren’t lowering your weapon, pumping your arms, swaying your head, etc. There is no heavy breathing; no “woosh” of air moving past you; no speed lines. These are ALL visual and audio cues designed to cultivate the illusion of urgency and speed. This illusion of speed that appeals to your personal sense of impatience could easily be created without a detrimental mechanic like sprint. Things like a wider field of view, increased base movement speed, perhaps some visual and audio cues to reinforce the sense of speed when moving at maximum base movement speed, more teleporters, maps that AREN’T scale for sprint, and so on. This is the POINT of this thread, and yet you continue to provide ignorant cliches in response. This is exactly why the perspective of players like you is not useful. You fundamentally DO NOT understand the issue.
Wow… when I hit the like button, I pictured the “strong man” game you see at carnivals and theme parks. I mashed it as hard as I could. Couldn’t possibly agree more with this view. I’ve said it before, I was never so bothered by sprint that I’d refuse to play a game that had it, but I found it both stupid and useless… mostly because of the detrimental effects it has on map design to compensate just for an illusion to sate the impatient… and this perspective puts exactly why into words.
> 2533274890584596;10635:
> Things like a wider field of view, increased base movement speed, perhaps some visual and audio cues to reinforce the sense of speed when moving at maximum base movement speed
I feel like most players would easily be fooled by a widening wield of view, “speed lines” at the periphery of the screen, heavier stepping sounds, sound of wind rushing by, and a slightly shaky image that all appear after running two seconds at maximum base speed. People would perceive this as faster despite no actual speed increase. I know for a fact that dynamically varying the field of view really messes with your sense of speed. I’ve amused myself with this in some racing games from time to time. The illusion of speed truly is nothing more than an illusion, and I doubt that weapon lowering is even a relevant part of it.
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> > > > > > > > > > > I feel like at the crux of this issue is two preferences. People who want tradeoffs in movement and those who do not.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Seeing as halo was founded on the idea of movement without tradeoffs( strafing/jumping without penalties to accuracy), one of those preferences seems to fit halo and one does not.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I personally am not very affected by the trade off.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > So, it wouldn’t really matter if it was removed then would it?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > No, I’d rather it stay. While I got used to entering gunfights, ready, other people still sprint in. I see it as get used to predicting your battles, don’t sprint, or die more.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > It’s not a matter of being ready or not. There are things that you just physically cannot do. You cannot move at the optimum speed and shoot in the other directions. You can’t make jumps while shooting someone.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Most jumps are scaled to sprint jumping. Meaning in order to make the jump you have to look directly at it and give up the ability to shoot. Without sprint you can make that jump while looking in any direction. This opens up all kinds of gameplay options.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > With sprint Halo is a very binary game. You are either moving, or shooting. Without sprint, you can do both at all times.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > But that’s not how it really is. I agree that the jumps should be scaled to normal walk speed jumps but still, sprinting and shooting in the opposite direction isn’t in any game, and it wouldn’t be any different without sprinting. Just stop and shoot if you want to shoot someone behind you. Sprinting while shooting in any direction would make you run into things. Except for the jumps, sprinting is only used for faster, one-directional, movement. You shouldn’t be sprinting while fighting, other than while using an energy sword or gravity hammer.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Did you ever play hce, h2 or h3?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Yes, I’ve played every halo and was annoyed when I was forced to walk into a tense situation.
> > >
> > >
> > > But you realise you could make jumps and traverse the maps while shooting in different directions right?
> >
> >
> > So then I didn’t sprint in the fight, only used it to get there. Nobody is forced to sprint and it is entirely the players choice to sprint or not.
>
>
> No, you have to sprint in order to make numerous jumps. It’s not a choice.
So, I haven’t been up to date on the 500 page thread so please don’t beat me. Please clarify this line of thought. Virtually every “normal” jump is doable wiith a standard jump or crouch jump. No clamber, sprint, smart-link or spartan abilities needed. A great deal of the non-normal jumps do not require sprint (if memory serves few do, although more speed does make some easier). Clamber and smart-link (and well timed crouch during it) play a bigger role in those jumps.
I’m not arguing for sprint, mind you. I actually dislike it for reasons stated by other posters (the post by Arg on page 529 sums it up TBH, although I wouldn’t have stated it the same why). I’m just curious where you’re coming from.
> 2533274825830455;10638:
> > 2533274890584596;10635:
> > Things like a wider field of view, increased base movement speed, perhaps some visual and audio cues to reinforce the sense of speed when moving at maximum base movement speed
>
>
> I feel like most players would easily be fooled by a widening wield of view, “speed lines” at the periphery of the screen, heavier stepping sounds, sound of wind rushing by, and a slightly shaky image that all appear after running two seconds at maximum base speed. People would perceive this as faster despite no actual speed increase. I know for a fact that dynamically varying the field of view really messes with your sense of speed. I’ve amused myself with this in some racing games from time to time. The illusion of speed truly is nothing more than an illusion, and I doubt that weapon lowering is even a relevant part of it.
Something I noticed that supports this and anyone who plays Fallout 4 can try it. I play FO4 in First Person mode. Try pulling up the Pip-boy, do whatever, then when you back out, pay attention to the background. I’ve noticed that the FOV changes when entering/exiting the Pip-boy (in FPS mode). I always wondered why they did that, changed the FOV, and it’s because when I exited it didn’t feel right to see that FOV change… why? Because that abrupt change in perspective made it seem as if I had been running while looking at the PB’s screen and had stopped when exiting, even though I never took a step and the background never “moved” in the process.
Edit: It’s only a slight change, have to pay fairly close attention to see what I’m talking about and I’m not 100% certain if it only happens outside of power armor, inside, or both.
I would like to keep sprint but only if it is staggered like in Halo Reach. To me it was perfect in Reach, but with the way the shields, radar and health being so low now; literally anyone sprinting to me gives me almost no chance to react. Having the first shot is so much of an advantage now, more than it ever used to be. It used to be that if I got caught out in the open I could have a fighting chance once I reacted because my shots were so accurate. This thread should include more than just wanting to change sprint.
> 2533274881560701;5:
> > 2533274973685362;4:
> > didn’t even bother reading it because it is the dumbest topic out there right now. Just because it has sprint doesn’t mean its not Halo. It’s one whole mechanic, that’s it. If you don’t like sprint, don’t sprint. Problem solved.
>
>
> Except the maps are purposefully stretched out to accompany sprint, so that stretched maps will have the same sprint travel time as a non stretched map with just walking. So
> not sprinting is punishing because the game had to be made around it.
Very true, 343 has also adjusted the radar, shields and health to accommodate sprint and thrusters as well and it has really put me off. This thread really needs to be about this community coming together and force a few more changes than just sprint, but well said on your part!
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> > > > > > > > I feel like at the crux of this issue is two preferences. People who want tradeoffs in movement and those who do not.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Seeing as halo was founded on the idea of movement without tradeoffs( strafing/jumping without penalties to accuracy), one of those preferences seems to fit halo and one does not.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I personally am not very affected by the trade off.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > So, it wouldn’t really matter if it was removed then would it?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > No, I’d rather it stay. While I got used to entering gunfights, ready, other people still sprint in. I see it as get used to predicting your battles, don’t sprint, or die more.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > It’s not a matter of being ready or not. There are things that you just physically cannot do. You cannot move at the optimum speed and shoot in the other directions. You can’t make jumps while shooting someone.
> > > >
> > > > Most jumps are scaled to sprint jumping. Meaning in order to make the jump you have to look directly at it and give up the ability to shoot. Without sprint you can make that jump while looking in any direction. This opens up all kinds of gameplay options.
> > > >
> > > > With sprint Halo is a very binary game. You are either moving, or shooting. Without sprint, you can do both at all times.
> > >
> > >
> > > But that’s not how it really is. I agree that the jumps should be scaled to normal walk speed jumps but still, sprinting and shooting in the opposite direction isn’t in any game, and it wouldn’t be any different without sprinting. Just stop and shoot if you want to shoot someone behind you. Sprinting while shooting in any direction would make you run into things. Except for the jumps, sprinting is only used for faster, one-directional, movement. You shouldn’t be sprinting while fighting, other than while using an energy sword or gravity hammer.
> >
> >
> > Did you ever play hce, h2 or h3?
>
>
> Yes, I’ve played every halo and was annoyed when I was forced to walk into a tense situation.
“Walk”?
We’ve all seen the jokes from Reach where most of the equipment were cool things like jet packs and then one which was “running”, and the jokes about how Spartans can only “run” for a few seconds before being tired out in Halo 4. I feel like too many people actually take that joke seriously. If you’re not crouched, you are RUNNING. There is no “walking” in Halo unless you’re purposefully moving slowly to sneak. There’s no “walking across the map”: your Spartan is running.
The entire purpose of sprinting is to go to the absolute top speed possible, but that doesn’t mean everything else is slowing to a crawl. But that’s not how people perceive things, obviously. People just know that they could be moving faster when not sprinting, therefore they think that they are moving at a snail pace. All adding sprint seems to have done is make people think that sprinting is running and running is walking. Sprinting doesn’t make Spartans feel fast, apparently, it only makes them feel slow.