The sprint discussion thread

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> > > > > Josh did make his original explanation on TeamBeyond (which we’ve also already discussed here). Needless to say, you need only look at the following couple pages after that to see people completely destroy his reasoning.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Nope, that article was actually cited from http://news.softpedia.com and I’ve never seen it discussed in this thread and I’ve been following the thread since it was created. Maybe you have discussed Josh Holmes’ pro sprint views, but he probably just expressed them in multiple different places to different people because he felt that strongly about advocating for sprint in Halo. I haven’t seen anyone “completely destroy,” anything as you’re suggesting- I’ve seen people challenge some of his points… I’ve also seen people present follow on questions, which cleeearly to most subjective people is quite clear that it’s impossible for Josh to field follow on questions after the fact. Could he have gotten further into the weeds on some of the pro-sprint views he expressed? Sure he could have, on a couple of things that we discussed and agreed upon here in the thread. That hardly constitutes anyone justifying that they “destroy[ed any of] his reasoning”
> > > > If anyone wants to see what he’s referencing here’s a quick link to where it was brought up and discussed in this thread.
> > >
> > >
> > > Zr0Fear is correct in where the article came from. The article you reference simply quotes and paraphrases his post on team beyond. But that aside, like Josh says there, they have to take into account a lot more people than just those on team beyond, or even us here on waypoint. And like you have said before, whether people agree or believe it or not, Microsoft has hard data they have collect from HCF, alpha and beta tests, and the like, and they don’t have to share every snippet of it.
> >
> >
> > The most interesting data 343 ever shared was how people found the “very traditional” test game they made “a lot of fun” and just decided to scrap it anyway. Pretty much confirming 343 actively seeks out what’s fun and does the opposite.
>
>
> Your opinion on both those fronts

Plus the facts I stated. I know some of you like to ignore those sometimes.

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> > > > Josh did make his original explanation on TeamBeyond (which we’ve also already discussed here). Needless to say, you need only look at the following couple pages after that to see people completely destroy his reasoning.
> > >
> > >
> > > Nope, that article was actually cited from http://news.softpedia.com and I’ve never seen it discussed in this thread and I’ve been following the thread since it was created. Maybe you have discussed Josh Holmes’ pro sprint views, but he probably just expressed them in multiple different places to different people because he felt that strongly about advocating for sprint in Halo. I haven’t seen anyone “completely destroy,” anything as you’re suggesting- I’ve seen people challenge some of his points… I’ve also seen people present follow on questions, which cleeearly to most subjective people is quite clear that it’s impossible for Josh to field follow on questions after the fact. Could he have gotten further into the weeds on some of the pro-sprint views he expressed? Sure he could have, on a couple of things that we discussed and agreed upon here in the thread. That hardly constitutes anyone justifying that they “destroy[ed any of] his reasoning”
> > >
> > > If anyone wants to see what he’s referencing here’s a quick link to where it was brought up and discussed in this thread.
> >
> >
> > Zr0Fear is correct in where the article came from. The article you reference simply quotes and paraphrases his post on team beyond. But that aside, like Josh says there, they have to take into account a lot more people than just those on team beyond, or even us here on waypoint. And like you have said before, whether people agree or believe it or not, Microsoft has hard data they have collect from HCF, alpha and beta tests, and the like, and they don’t have to share every snippet of it.
>
>
> But the article and the things the author addresses in there weren’t buried in Team Beyond’s forum either… I’ve been following this thread since it started- granted not always as closely, but I never saw this discussion take place. Even if it did take place, why shouldn’t we be able to discuss it again? Especially with new light shed upon it from news.softpedia.com; along with the fact that his sentiments echoed much of what pro sprinters are currently debating?

So you are mostly bringing up the article for the author’s pov rather than josh’s? His original statements on teambeyond are much more informative than the paraphrased article. But you are right in that there is no harm in bringing it up again, especially when different people are involved in the discussion

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> > > > 2625759425619671;10503:
> > > > > 2533274819567236;10502:
> > > > > Josh did make his original explanation on TeamBeyond (which we’ve also already discussed here). Needless to say, you need only look at the following couple pages after that to see people completely destroy his reasoning.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Nope, that article was actually cited from http://news.softpedia.com and I’ve never seen it discussed in this thread and I’ve been following the thread since it was created. Maybe you have discussed Josh Holmes’ pro sprint views, but he probably just expressed them in multiple different places to different people because he felt that strongly about advocating for sprint in Halo. I haven’t seen anyone “completely destroy,” anything as you’re suggesting- I’ve seen people challenge some of his points… I’ve also seen people present follow on questions, which cleeearly to most subjective people is quite clear that it’s impossible for Josh to field follow on questions after the fact. Could he have gotten further into the weeds on some of the pro-sprint views he expressed? Sure he could have, on a couple of things that we discussed and agreed upon here in the thread. That hardly constitutes anyone justifying that they “destroy[ed any of] his reasoning”
> > > >
> > > > If anyone wants to see what he’s referencing here’s a quick link to where it was brought up and discussed in this thread.
> > >
> > >
> > > Zr0Fear is correct in where the article came from. The article you reference simply quotes and paraphrases his post on team beyond. But that aside, like Josh says there, they have to take into account a lot more people than just those on team beyond, or even us here on waypoint. And like you have said before, whether people agree or believe it or not, Microsoft has hard data they have collect from HCF, alpha and beta tests, and the like, and they don’t have to share every snippet of it.
> >
> >
> > But the article and the things the author addresses in there weren’t buried in Team Beyond’s forum either… I’ve been following this thread since it started- granted not always as closely, but I never saw this discussion take place. Even if it did take place, why shouldn’t we be able to discuss it again? Especially with new light shed upon it from news.softpedia.com; along with the fact that his sentiments echoed much of what pro sprinters are currently debating?
>
>
> So you are mostly bringing up the article for the author’s pov rather than josh’s? His original statements on teambeyond are much more informative than the paraphrased article. But you are right in that there is no harm in bringing it up again, especially when different people are involved in the discussion

Yeah I was about to say that… I mean, it’s an interesting read nonetheless and insightful as it somewhat sheds a bit of light onto 343’s decision-making process… But it leaves way for interpretation- especially regarding how “traditional,” it may or may not have been. That article makes no reference to sprint at all; although whatever build they were using may have excluded sprint, we can’t say for sure either way based upon that read (The previous Halo title included sprint before Halo 4)… Also the author paraphrases multiple times which isn’t the best method of accurate reporting on their part; however it’s still a pretty good read as it’s still an entertaining writing style nonetheless.

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> > > > Oh please. You don’t need to pull the ‘not confident in your argument’ bull crap with me. If I wanted to I could turn it around on you and say that youre not confident in your argument for pointing that out.
> > > > Those maps I pointed out have no more openness than maps in Halo 4 or 5. I concede the fact that Truth is in fact, significantly bigger than Midship. But that is one map. One map is not representative of all of them. I could go through every single map if youd like and point out equivilants in size. And no, the maps in Halo 4 or 5 are legitimately around the same size as many 4 v 4 maps in the original trilogy, It isnt due to their ‘clutter’. Heck, Damnation had quite a bit of ‘clutter’ (man with how many times Ive said original trilogy in this thread youd think I was talking about star wars).
> > > > That is garbage about risk-reward benefiting one type of player. It benefits multiple types of players, plenty of whom do fine without it as well. and having higher predictability doesnt necessarily mean having more/better strategy. It could just mean that you play the game more and can guess better what the other person is doing. What are you forced to do without sprint to accomplish what you want? Half of what doing good in Halo, whether it has sprint or not, is capitalizing on someone else’s bad play! Someone can make a bad decision in Halo 3 and get cut for it just like they can in Halo 5, those bad decisions just may take different forms.
> > > > Sprint can add strategy, and benefit for all players. No matter how skilled they are or how many halos they have played.
> > > > I say again, I like sprint, I like no sprint. I think they can both be fun, fair, and competitive. But treating this like there is only one correct side, like only the anti-sprinters are right, or only the pro-sprinters are right is stupid. There are good arguments on both sides, and if you cant see that you are blinded from the bias you have on one side.
> > >
> > >
> > > You could say whatever you want, but when you go to “you haven’t played” it doesn’t bode well for what you’re about to say. If I wanted, I could say you’re bad at the game and you obviously don’t know what you’re talking about. Do I say that? No, because it’s unnecessary and I’m able to make an argument. So let’s just drop that.
> > >
> > > You’re really gonna tell me that Hang em High and Rat Race are not more open than any arena map in Halo 5? Are you serious? There’s no arguing there, that’s just false. It you can get actual measurements to the maps, then by all means, do so. If would be nice to have some actual data to put the issue to rest (though honestly, it’s hardly an issue since both sides of the sprint argument generally accept that maps are now bigger). Can I get your opinion on why you think they would increase the size of Truth if it was unnecessary? And do you think if sprint were dropped into Halo 2, that maps like Midship and Lockout would play fine with no negative effect on spawns, re-engagements and where people choose to traverse?
> > >
> > > I should’ve been more clear, risk-reward benefits worse players more. They stand to gain more than good players would because the good players are more likely to succeed in a situation without risk-reward than bad players are. Why are you acting like “playing the game more and can guess better what the other person is doing” isn’t strategy or skill? Without knowledge of the game, maps and player behavior, you’re nothing. Knowledge is half the battle in this game. When there’s less you can know, you’re forced to rely more on circumstance rather than your own ability to figure out exactly where to go (and when), what to do (and how) and know what the other player is going to do. Sprint, and the unpredictability and chance that it adds, allows you to capitalizing more on the enemy’s bad play than relying on your own good play. That is something that you could always do, but why increase the frequency of those situations? Good players don’t need that, they’re already playing smart. Bad players on the other hand have less to lose with more chance.
> >
> >
> > I will keep this brief, as I dont really care for this argument or all the passive aggressiveness on both sides of the ball.
> >
> > I didn’t say rat race and hng em high weren’t more open, I specifically left those maps out when I mentioned maps that are as ‘cluttered’ or more so than ones if 5. I didn’t day every map in 5 was more open than ever other map in every other game. I mentioned those two when talking about maps that are as big or bigger than h4 and 5 ones.
> >
> > That may benefit them more. But I don’t think either of us as any hard evidence one way or the other.
> >
> > Memorizing maps and likely places of movement due to amount of playtime takes no more skill than reacting and adapting to the unpredictablility of encounters.
>
>
> After that, I’m glad you gave up on this argument because what is there to say after that? You actually said, and presumably believe, the bolded statement…

That was in response to your statement that memorizing maps and movement supposedly takes more skill than reaction, and adapting. It does not.

And just because I choose to not take the time to write a book anymore doesn’t mean your ‘side’ has won by default. Also I’ve never been completely against your ‘side’, just how you’ve been debating it

> 2533274819567236;10502:
> Josh did make his original explanation on TeamBeyond (which we’ve also already discussed here). Needless to say, you need only look at the following couple pages after that to see people completely destroy his reasoning.

The main reason boils down to “people expect it in FPS games”. Which was debatable during the time of h5’s development but is now straight up 100% false.

FPS design is finally starting to spread away from the singularity that was pulling every dev to look at COD. Loads of popular FPS games are opting to not use sprint again.

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> > > > > 2625759425619671;10503:
> > > > > > 2533274819567236;10502:
> > > > > > Josh did make his original explanation on TeamBeyond (which we’ve also already discussed here). Needless to say, you need only look at the following couple pages after that to see people completely destroy his reasoning.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Nope, that article was actually cited from http://news.softpedia.com and I’ve never seen it discussed in this thread and I’ve been following the thread since it was created. Maybe you have discussed Josh Holmes’ pro sprint views, but he probably just expressed them in multiple different places to different people because he felt that strongly about advocating for sprint in Halo. I haven’t seen anyone “completely destroy,” anything as you’re suggesting- I’ve seen people challenge some of his points… I’ve also seen people present follow on questions, which cleeearly to most subjective people is quite clear that it’s impossible for Josh to field follow on questions after the fact. Could he have gotten further into the weeds on some of the pro-sprint views he expressed? Sure he could have, on a couple of things that we discussed and agreed upon here in the thread. That hardly constitutes anyone justifying that they “destroy[ed any of] his reasoning”
> > > > > If anyone wants to see what he’s referencing here’s a quick link to where it was brought up and discussed in this thread.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Zr0Fear is correct in where the article came from. The article you reference simply quotes and paraphrases his post on team beyond. But that aside, like Josh says there, they have to take into account a lot more people than just those on team beyond, or even us here on waypoint. And like you have said before, whether people agree or believe it or not, Microsoft has hard data they have collect from HCF, alpha and beta tests, and the like, and they don’t have to share every snippet of it.
> > >
> > >
> > > The most interesting data 343 ever shared was how people found the “very traditional” test game they made “a lot of fun” and just decided to scrap it anyway. Pretty much confirming 343 actively seeks out what’s fun and does the opposite.
> >
> >
> > Your opinion on both those fronts
>
>
> Plus the facts I stated. I know some of you like to ignore those sometimes.

As you like to ignore facts on the other side. And no, both of those statements are in fact opinion. It is your opinion that that is the most interesting data released. It is your opinion that what 343 has done is not fun

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> > > > > Oh please. You don’t need to pull the ‘not confident in your argument’ bull crap with me. If I wanted to I could turn it around on you and say that youre not confident in your argument for pointing that out.
> > > > > Those maps I pointed out have no more openness than maps in Halo 4 or 5. I concede the fact that Truth is in fact, significantly bigger than Midship. But that is one map. One map is not representative of all of them. I could go through every single map if youd like and point out equivilants in size. And no, the maps in Halo 4 or 5 are legitimately around the same size as many 4 v 4 maps in the original trilogy, It isnt due to their ‘clutter’. Heck, Damnation had quite a bit of ‘clutter’ (man with how many times Ive said original trilogy in this thread youd think I was talking about star wars).
> > > > > That is garbage about risk-reward benefiting one type of player. It benefits multiple types of players, plenty of whom do fine without it as well. and having higher predictability doesnt necessarily mean having more/better strategy. It could just mean that you play the game more and can guess better what the other person is doing. What are you forced to do without sprint to accomplish what you want? Half of what doing good in Halo, whether it has sprint or not, is capitalizing on someone else’s bad play! Someone can make a bad decision in Halo 3 and get cut for it just like they can in Halo 5, those bad decisions just may take different forms.
> > > > > Sprint can add strategy, and benefit for all players. No matter how skilled they are or how many halos they have played.
> > > > > I say again, I like sprint, I like no sprint. I think they can both be fun, fair, and competitive. But treating this like there is only one correct side, like only the anti-sprinters are right, or only the pro-sprinters are right is stupid. There are good arguments on both sides, and if you cant see that you are blinded from the bias you have on one side.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > You could say whatever you want, but when you go to “you haven’t played” it doesn’t bode well for what you’re about to say. If I wanted, I could say you’re bad at the game and you obviously don’t know what you’re talking about. Do I say that? No, because it’s unnecessary and I’m able to make an argument. So let’s just drop that.
> > > >
> > > > You’re really gonna tell me that Hang em High and Rat Race are not more open than any arena map in Halo 5? Are you serious? There’s no arguing there, that’s just false. It you can get actual measurements to the maps, then by all means, do so. If would be nice to have some actual data to put the issue to rest (though honestly, it’s hardly an issue since both sides of the sprint argument generally accept that maps are now bigger). Can I get your opinion on why you think they would increase the size of Truth if it was unnecessary? And do you think if sprint were dropped into Halo 2, that maps like Midship and Lockout would play fine with no negative effect on spawns, re-engagements and where people choose to traverse?
> > > >
> > > > I should’ve been more clear, risk-reward benefits worse players more. They stand to gain more than good players would because the good players are more likely to succeed in a situation without risk-reward than bad players are. Why are you acting like “playing the game more and can guess better what the other person is doing” isn’t strategy or skill? Without knowledge of the game, maps and player behavior, you’re nothing. Knowledge is half the battle in this game. When there’s less you can know, you’re forced to rely more on circumstance rather than your own ability to figure out exactly where to go (and when), what to do (and how) and know what the other player is going to do. Sprint, and the unpredictability and chance that it adds, allows you to capitalizing more on the enemy’s bad play than relying on your own good play. That is something that you could always do, but why increase the frequency of those situations? Good players don’t need that, they’re already playing smart. Bad players on the other hand have less to lose with more chance.
> > >
> > >
> > > I will keep this brief, as I dont really care for this argument or all the passive aggressiveness on both sides of the ball.
> > >
> > > I didn’t say rat race and hng em high weren’t more open, I specifically left those maps out when I mentioned maps that are as ‘cluttered’ or more so than ones if 5. I didn’t day every map in 5 was more open than ever other map in every other game. I mentioned those two when talking about maps that are as big or bigger than h4 and 5 ones.
> > >
> > > That may benefit them more. But I don’t think either of us as any hard evidence one way or the other.
> > >
> > > Memorizing maps and likely places of movement due to amount of playtime takes no more skill than reacting and adapting to the unpredictablility of encounters.
> >
> >
> > After that, I’m glad you gave up on this argument because what is there to say after that? You actually said, and presumably believe, the bolded statement…
>
>
> That was in response to your statement that memorizing maps and movement supposedly takes more skill than reaction, and adapting. It does not.
>
> And just because I choose to not take the time to write a book anymore doesn’t mean your ‘side’ has won by default. Also I’ve never been completely against your ‘side’, just how you’ve been debating it

I know what it was in response to. That’s why it’s so mindboggling that you believe that (granted, the way you’re wording what I said suggests that you didn’t even understand it).

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> > > > > Oh please. You don’t need to pull the ‘not confident in your argument’ bull crap with me. If I wanted to I could turn it around on you and say that youre not confident in your argument for pointing that out.
> > > > > Those maps I pointed out have no more openness than maps in Halo 4 or 5. I concede the fact that Truth is in fact, significantly bigger than Midship. But that is one map. One map is not representative of all of them. I could go through every single map if youd like and point out equivilants in size. And no, the maps in Halo 4 or 5 are legitimately around the same size as many 4 v 4 maps in the original trilogy, It isnt due to their ‘clutter’. Heck, Damnation had quite a bit of ‘clutter’ (man with how many times Ive said original trilogy in this thread youd think I was talking about star wars).
> > > > > That is garbage about risk-reward benefiting one type of player. It benefits multiple types of players, plenty of whom do fine without it as well. and having higher predictability doesnt necessarily mean having more/better strategy. It could just mean that you play the game more and can guess better what the other person is doing. What are you forced to do without sprint to accomplish what you want? Half of what doing good in Halo, whether it has sprint or not, is capitalizing on someone else’s bad play! Someone can make a bad decision in Halo 3 and get cut for it just like they can in Halo 5, those bad decisions just may take different forms.
> > > > > Sprint can add strategy, and benefit for all players. No matter how skilled they are or how many halos they have played.
> > > > > I say again, I like sprint, I like no sprint. I think they can both be fun, fair, and competitive. But treating this like there is only one correct side, like only the anti-sprinters are right, or only the pro-sprinters are right is stupid. There are good arguments on both sides, and if you cant see that you are blinded from the bias you have on one side.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > You could say whatever you want, but when you go to “you haven’t played” it doesn’t bode well for what you’re about to say. If I wanted, I could say you’re bad at the game and you obviously don’t know what you’re talking about. Do I say that? No, because it’s unnecessary and I’m able to make an argument. So let’s just drop that.
> > > >
> > > > You’re really gonna tell me that Hang em High and Rat Race are not more open than any arena map in Halo 5? Are you serious? There’s no arguing there, that’s just false. It you can get actual measurements to the maps, then by all means, do so. If would be nice to have some actual data to put the issue to rest (though honestly, it’s hardly an issue since both sides of the sprint argument generally accept that maps are now bigger). Can I get your opinion on why you think they would increase the size of Truth if it was unnecessary? And do you think if sprint were dropped into Halo 2, that maps like Midship and Lockout would play fine with no negative effect on spawns, re-engagements and where people choose to traverse?
> > > >
> > > > I should’ve been more clear, risk-reward benefits worse players more. They stand to gain more than good players would because the good players are more likely to succeed in a situation without risk-reward than bad players are. Why are you acting like “playing the game more and can guess better what the other person is doing” isn’t strategy or skill? Without knowledge of the game, maps and player behavior, you’re nothing. Knowledge is half the battle in this game. When there’s less you can know, you’re forced to rely more on circumstance rather than your own ability to figure out exactly where to go (and when), what to do (and how) and know what the other player is going to do. Sprint, and the unpredictability and chance that it adds, allows you to capitalizing more on the enemy’s bad play than relying on your own good play. That is something that you could always do, but why increase the frequency of those situations? Good players don’t need that, they’re already playing smart. Bad players on the other hand have less to lose with more chance.
> > >
> > >
> > > I will keep this brief, as I dont really care for this argument or all the passive aggressiveness on both sides of the ball.
> > >
> > > I didn’t say rat race and hng em high weren’t more open, I specifically left those maps out when I mentioned maps that are as ‘cluttered’ or more so than ones if 5. I didn’t day every map in 5 was more open than ever other map in every other game. I mentioned those two when talking about maps that are as big or bigger than h4 and 5 ones.
> > >
> > > That may benefit them more. But I don’t think either of us as any hard evidence one way or the other.
> > >
> > > Memorizing maps and likely places of movement due to amount of playtime takes no more skill than reacting and adapting to the unpredictablility of encounters.
> >
> >
> > After that, I’m glad you gave up on this argument because what is there to say after that? You actually said, and presumably believe, the bolded statement…
>
>
> That was in response to your statement that memorizing maps and movement supposedly takes more skill than reaction, and adapting. It does not.
>
> And just because I choose to not take the time to write a book anymore doesn’t mean your ‘side’ has won by default. Also I’ve never been completely against your ‘side’, just how you’ve been debating it

Yeah, I believe UEG ShadowAngel said it best regarding this issue… There’s not going to be any end-all, be-all slam dunk here to win either way. Anti-sprinters should know that, I know pro sprinters seem to accept that. This thread is about debating the issue, but it doesn’t have to be a black and white, “My side has to beat yours,” affair either.

I’m hoping to continue to learn more about anti-sprinters’ ideas for the next Halo and to hear about more potential compromises to the issue of Sprint. It’s going to take a little bit of compromising on either side- at the very least for the sake of a constructive discussion. It doesn’t mean anti-sprinters have to budge in their stance or anything, but they will have to open-minded enough to hear out pro-sprinters and not try to write off every opinion about why sprint is good for Halo (And vice versa - same goes for pro sprinters)

Despite what some of you may think, I’m certainly not as against the idea of removing sprint as I was before I entered this thread… Do I still want sprint to stay? You betchyer sweet Valhalla I do… But that doesn’t mean I’m not staunchly against removing it anymore after hearing fellow fans explain why they want to remove it.

> 2535450703392903;10527:
> > 2533274819567236;10502:
> > Josh did make his original explanation on TeamBeyond (which we’ve also already discussed here). Needless to say, you need only look at the following couple pages after that to see people completely destroy his reasoning.
>
>
> The main reason boils down to “people expect it in FPS games”. Which was debatable during the time of h5’s development but is now straight up 100% false.
>
> FPS design is finally starting to spread away from the singularity that was pulling every dev to look at COD. Loads of popular FPS games are opting to not use sprint again.

Overwatch is pretty popular and Battlefield may end up being really popular. Who knows, Halo 6 may very well have heroes or be set during WW1. 343 aren’t good at coming up with their own ideas, so hoping for anything that significantly seperates Halo from the pack is unlikely.

> 2533274819567236;10531:
> > 2535450703392903;10527:
> > > 2533274819567236;10502:
> > > Josh did make his original explanation on TeamBeyond (which we’ve also already discussed here). Needless to say, you need only look at the following couple pages after that to see people completely destroy his reasoning.
> >
> >
> > The main reason boils down to “people expect it in FPS games”. Which was debatable during the time of h5’s development but is now straight up 100% false.
> >
> > FPS design is finally starting to spread away from the singularity that was pulling every dev to look at COD. Loads of popular FPS games are opting to not use sprint again.
>
>
> Overwatch is pretty popular and Battlefield may end up being really popular. Who knows, Halo 6 may very well have heroes or be set during WW1. 343 aren’t good at coming up with their own ideas, so hoping for anything that significantly seperates Halo from the pack is unlikely.

Halo 6

A car soccer game with heroes and guns IN SPACE

> 2625759425619671;10486:
> Sprint isn’t sustainable nor can you even sprint/shoot at the same time- those are just two of the many unique gameplay balances that Josh Holmes referred to when he discussed how 343i tweaked sprint for Halo 5 which challenge your whole philosophy (Where you want to admit that or not).

Okay, you know what, going in circles isn’t fun and will undoubtedly go into bad off topic territory and we’re going to get nowhere. So I’ll/we’ll just go back to basics and actually argue on topic.

So, Josh Holmes refers to these two instances as “balances”. But here’s the thing. Sprint IS sustainable in current Halo’s context. Sprint’s unlimited. You can use it for as long as you want. So, that point is right out the window, unless of course, you somehow meant something else. And on top of that, how is not being able to shoot while sprinting a good compromise for gameplay? Why should the player be taken out of combat readiness for a second burst of movement? They can run “faster” (I say faster figuratively, because you’re only sprinting as fast as a proper BMS would provide. You don’t move faster in relation to the map. You’re constantly moving slower than it was designed for.) as a trade off, but that means opponents can’t chase adequately without putting their own weapon down, which in turn, means less combat’s going on or able to go on, which means the pace of the game is slowed down exponentially. That in turn means escape is easier, which makes the game less punishing, because players can get off scott free from a situation they’d have normally died in, because while they can run, their opponent can’t properly follow them, without relieving themselves of the ability to shoot and move. I don’t get how ease of escapability is a balance, given it just makes the job of the person who’s on the run easier. It doesn’t matter if your shields can’t recharge anymore, nor the fact you can’t fight back, because your opponent who’s chasing you can’t even shoot you as you run.

> 2533274913913392;10528:
> > 2533274819567236;10523:
> > > 2533274913913392;10520:
> > > > 2533274819567236;10516:
> > > > > 2533274913913392;10514:
> > > > > > 2625759425619671;10503:
> > > > > > > 2533274819567236;10502:
> > > > > > > Josh did make his original explanation on TeamBeyond (which we’ve also already discussed here). Needless to say, you need only look at the following couple pages after that to see people completely destroy his reasoning.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Nope, that article was actually cited from http://news.softpedia.com and I’ve never seen it discussed in this thread and I’ve been following the thread since it was created. Maybe you have discussed Josh Holmes’ pro sprint views, but he probably just expressed them in multiple different places to different people because he felt that strongly about advocating for sprint in Halo. I haven’t seen anyone “completely destroy,” anything as you’re suggesting- I’ve seen people challenge some of his points… I’ve also seen people present follow on questions, which cleeearly to most subjective people is quite clear that it’s impossible for Josh to field follow on questions after the fact. Could he have gotten further into the weeds on some of the pro-sprint views he expressed? Sure he could have, on a couple of things that we discussed and agreed upon here in the thread. That hardly constitutes anyone justifying that they “destroy[ed any of] his reasoning”
> > > > > > If anyone wants to see what he’s referencing here’s a quick link to where it was brought up and discussed in this thread.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Zr0Fear is correct in where the article came from. The article you reference simply quotes and paraphrases his post on team beyond. But that aside, like Josh says there, they have to take into account a lot more people than just those on team beyond, or even us here on waypoint. And like you have said before, whether people agree or believe it or not, Microsoft has hard data they have collect from HCF, alpha and beta tests, and the like, and they don’t have to share every snippet of it.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The most interesting data 343 ever shared was how people found the “very traditional” test game they made “a lot of fun” and just decided to scrap it anyway. Pretty much confirming 343 actively seeks out what’s fun and does the opposite.
> > >
> > >
> > > Your opinion on both those fronts
> >
> >
> > Plus the facts I stated. I know some of you like to ignore those sometimes.
>
>
> As you like to ignore facts on the other side. And no, both of those statements are in fact opinion. It is your opinion that that is the most interesting data released. It is your opinion that what 343 has done is not fun

Plus the facts that I stated.

Also I didn’t say what 343 has done is not fun in that post. Just another example of poor reading comprehension. Are you and Sin just the same person because - and I’m not kidding - out of the more than 10k posts in this thread (of which I have participated in most of), there has been no one who consistantly misunderstood very simple explanations like you two have… and you both happened to pop up during the same time frame.

> 2533274819567236;10529:
> > 2533274913913392;10526:
> > > 2533274819567236;10522:
> > > > 2533274913913392;10518:
> > > > > 2533274819567236;10408:
> > > > > > 2533274913913392;10225:
> > > > > > Oh please. You don’t need to pull the ‘not confident in your argument’ bull crap with me. If I wanted to I could turn it around on you and say that youre not confident in your argument for pointing that out.
> > > > > > Those maps I pointed out have no more openness than maps in Halo 4 or 5. I concede the fact that Truth is in fact, significantly bigger than Midship. But that is one map. One map is not representative of all of them. I could go through every single map if youd like and point out equivilants in size. And no, the maps in Halo 4 or 5 are legitimately around the same size as many 4 v 4 maps in the original trilogy, It isnt due to their ‘clutter’. Heck, Damnation had quite a bit of ‘clutter’ (man with how many times Ive said original trilogy in this thread youd think I was talking about star wars).
> > > > > > That is garbage about risk-reward benefiting one type of player. It benefits multiple types of players, plenty of whom do fine without it as well. and having higher predictability doesnt necessarily mean having more/better strategy. It could just mean that you play the game more and can guess better what the other person is doing. What are you forced to do without sprint to accomplish what you want? Half of what doing good in Halo, whether it has sprint or not, is capitalizing on someone else’s bad play! Someone can make a bad decision in Halo 3 and get cut for it just like they can in Halo 5, those bad decisions just may take different forms.
> > > > > > Sprint can add strategy, and benefit for all players. No matter how skilled they are or how many halos they have played.
> > > > > > I say again, I like sprint, I like no sprint. I think they can both be fun, fair, and competitive. But treating this like there is only one correct side, like only the anti-sprinters are right, or only the pro-sprinters are right is stupid. There are good arguments on both sides, and if you cant see that you are blinded from the bias you have on one side.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > You could say whatever you want, but when you go to “you haven’t played” it doesn’t bode well for what you’re about to say. If I wanted, I could say you’re bad at the game and you obviously don’t know what you’re talking about. Do I say that? No, because it’s unnecessary and I’m able to make an argument. So let’s just drop that.
> > > > >
> > > > > You’re really gonna tell me that Hang em High and Rat Race are not more open than any arena map in Halo 5? Are you serious? There’s no arguing there, that’s just false. It you can get actual measurements to the maps, then by all means, do so. If would be nice to have some actual data to put the issue to rest (though honestly, it’s hardly an issue since both sides of the sprint argument generally accept that maps are now bigger). Can I get your opinion on why you think they would increase the size of Truth if it was unnecessary? And do you think if sprint were dropped into Halo 2, that maps like Midship and Lockout would play fine with no negative effect on spawns, re-engagements and where people choose to traverse?
> > > > >
> > > > > I should’ve been more clear, risk-reward benefits worse players more. They stand to gain more than good players would because the good players are more likely to succeed in a situation without risk-reward than bad players are. Why are you acting like “playing the game more and can guess better what the other person is doing” isn’t strategy or skill? Without knowledge of the game, maps and player behavior, you’re nothing. Knowledge is half the battle in this game. When there’s less you can know, you’re forced to rely more on circumstance rather than your own ability to figure out exactly where to go (and when), what to do (and how) and know what the other player is going to do. Sprint, and the unpredictability and chance that it adds, allows you to capitalizing more on the enemy’s bad play than relying on your own good play. That is something that you could always do, but why increase the frequency of those situations? Good players don’t need that, they’re already playing smart. Bad players on the other hand have less to lose with more chance.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I will keep this brief, as I dont really care for this argument or all the passive aggressiveness on both sides of the ball.
> > > >
> > > > I didn’t say rat race and hng em high weren’t more open, I specifically left those maps out when I mentioned maps that are as ‘cluttered’ or more so than ones if 5. I didn’t day every map in 5 was more open than ever other map in every other game. I mentioned those two when talking about maps that are as big or bigger than h4 and 5 ones.
> > > >
> > > > That may benefit them more. But I don’t think either of us as any hard evidence one way or the other.
> > > >
> > > > Memorizing maps and likely places of movement due to amount of playtime takes no more skill than reacting and adapting to the unpredictablility of encounters.
> > >
> > >
> > > After that, I’m glad you gave up on this argument because what is there to say after that? You actually said, and presumably believe, the bolded statement…
> >
> >
> > That was in response to your statement that memorizing maps and movement supposedly takes more skill than reaction, and adapting. It does not.
> >
> > And just because I choose to not take the time to write a book anymore doesn’t mean your ‘side’ has won by default. Also I’ve never been completely against your ‘side’, just how you’ve been debating it
>
>
> I know what it was in response to. That’s why it’s so mindboggling that you believe that (granted, the way you’re wording what I said suggests that you didn’t even understand it).

This is the passive aggressiveness I was referring to…

I understand quite well.

Reacting in real time takes just as much skill as simply predicting enemy movements. Granted a healthy mix of the two takes the most.

Believe it or not, I guess you can just have your mind boggled that someone doesn’t see the exact same way you do.

> 2533274819567236;10534:
> > 2533274913913392;10528:
> > > 2533274819567236;10523:
> > > > 2533274913913392;10520:
> > > > > 2533274819567236;10516:
> > > > > > 2533274913913392;10514:
> > > > > > > 2625759425619671;10503:
> > > > > > > > 2533274819567236;10502:
> > > > > > > > Josh did make his original explanation on TeamBeyond (which we’ve also already discussed here). Needless to say, you need only look at the following couple pages after that to see people completely destroy his reasoning.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Nope, that article was actually cited from http://news.softpedia.com and I’ve never seen it discussed in this thread and I’ve been following the thread since it was created. Maybe you have discussed Josh Holmes’ pro sprint views, but he probably just expressed them in multiple different places to different people because he felt that strongly about advocating for sprint in Halo. I haven’t seen anyone “completely destroy,” anything as you’re suggesting- I’ve seen people challenge some of his points… I’ve also seen people present follow on questions, which cleeearly to most subjective people is quite clear that it’s impossible for Josh to field follow on questions after the fact. Could he have gotten further into the weeds on some of the pro-sprint views he expressed? Sure he could have, on a couple of things that we discussed and agreed upon here in the thread. That hardly constitutes anyone justifying that they “destroy[ed any of] his reasoning”
> > > > > > > If anyone wants to see what he’s referencing here’s a quick link to where it was brought up and discussed in this thread.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Zr0Fear is correct in where the article came from. The article you reference simply quotes and paraphrases his post on team beyond. But that aside, like Josh says there, they have to take into account a lot more people than just those on team beyond, or even us here on waypoint. And like you have said before, whether people agree or believe it or not, Microsoft has hard data they have collect from HCF, alpha and beta tests, and the like, and they don’t have to share every snippet of it.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > The most interesting data 343 ever shared was how people found the “very traditional” test game they made “a lot of fun” and just decided to scrap it anyway. Pretty much confirming 343 actively seeks out what’s fun and does the opposite.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Your opinion on both those fronts
> > >
> > >
> > > Plus the facts I stated. I know some of you like to ignore those sometimes.
> >
> >
> > As you like to ignore facts on the other side. And no, both of those statements are in fact opinion. It is your opinion that that is the most interesting data released. It is your opinion that what 343 has done is not fun
>
>
> Plus the facts that I stated.
>
> Also I didn’t say what 343 has done is not fun in that post. Just another example of poor reading comprehension. Are you and Sin just the same person because - and I’m not kidding - out of the more than 10k posts in this thread (of which I have participated in most of), there has been no one who consistantly misunderstood very simple explanations like you two have… and you both happened to pop up during the same time frame.

Lol, if I have poor reading comprehension, maybe you should just explain yourself more clearly. Because if you think you are crystal clear,you are mistaken. And no need to insult people.

And no need to repeat yourself on your so called ‘facts’. That statement has almost nothing to do with the prior post.

> 2533274913913392;10535:
> > 2533274819567236;10529:
> > > 2533274913913392;10526:
> > > > 2533274819567236;10522:
> > > > > 2533274913913392;10518:
> > > > > > 2533274819567236;10408:
> > > > > > > 2533274913913392;10225:
> > > > > > > Oh please. You don’t need to pull the ‘not confident in your argument’ bull crap with me. If I wanted to I could turn it around on you and say that youre not confident in your argument for pointing that out.
> > > > > > > Those maps I pointed out have no more openness than maps in Halo 4 or 5. I concede the fact that Truth is in fact, significantly bigger than Midship. But that is one map. One map is not representative of all of them. I could go through every single map if youd like and point out equivilants in size. And no, the maps in Halo 4 or 5 are legitimately around the same size as many 4 v 4 maps in the original trilogy, It isnt due to their ‘clutter’. Heck, Damnation had quite a bit of ‘clutter’ (man with how many times Ive said original trilogy in this thread youd think I was talking about star wars).
> > > > > > > That is garbage about risk-reward benefiting one type of player. It benefits multiple types of players, plenty of whom do fine without it as well. and having higher predictability doesnt necessarily mean having more/better strategy. It could just mean that you play the game more and can guess better what the other person is doing. What are you forced to do without sprint to accomplish what you want? Half of what doing good in Halo, whether it has sprint or not, is capitalizing on someone else’s bad play! Someone can make a bad decision in Halo 3 and get cut for it just like they can in Halo 5, those bad decisions just may take different forms.
> > > > > > > Sprint can add strategy, and benefit for all players. No matter how skilled they are or how many halos they have played.
> > > > > > > I say again, I like sprint, I like no sprint. I think they can both be fun, fair, and competitive. But treating this like there is only one correct side, like only the anti-sprinters are right, or only the pro-sprinters are right is stupid. There are good arguments on both sides, and if you cant see that you are blinded from the bias you have on one side.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You could say whatever you want, but when you go to “you haven’t played” it doesn’t bode well for what you’re about to say. If I wanted, I could say you’re bad at the game and you obviously don’t know what you’re talking about. Do I say that? No, because it’s unnecessary and I’m able to make an argument. So let’s just drop that.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You’re really gonna tell me that Hang em High and Rat Race are not more open than any arena map in Halo 5? Are you serious? There’s no arguing there, that’s just false. It you can get actual measurements to the maps, then by all means, do so. If would be nice to have some actual data to put the issue to rest (though honestly, it’s hardly an issue since both sides of the sprint argument generally accept that maps are now bigger). Can I get your opinion on why you think they would increase the size of Truth if it was unnecessary? And do you think if sprint were dropped into Halo 2, that maps like Midship and Lockout would play fine with no negative effect on spawns, re-engagements and where people choose to traverse?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I should’ve been more clear, risk-reward benefits worse players more. They stand to gain more than good players would because the good players are more likely to succeed in a situation without risk-reward than bad players are. Why are you acting like “playing the game more and can guess better what the other person is doing” isn’t strategy or skill? Without knowledge of the game, maps and player behavior, you’re nothing. Knowledge is half the battle in this game. When there’s less you can know, you’re forced to rely more on circumstance rather than your own ability to figure out exactly where to go (and when), what to do (and how) and know what the other player is going to do. Sprint, and the unpredictability and chance that it adds, allows you to capitalizing more on the enemy’s bad play than relying on your own good play. That is something that you could always do, but why increase the frequency of those situations? Good players don’t need that, they’re already playing smart. Bad players on the other hand have less to lose with more chance.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I will keep this brief, as I dont really care for this argument or all the passive aggressiveness on both sides of the ball.
> > > > >
> > > > > I didn’t say rat race and hng em high weren’t more open, I specifically left those maps out when I mentioned maps that are as ‘cluttered’ or more so than ones if 5. I didn’t day every map in 5 was more open than ever other map in every other game. I mentioned those two when talking about maps that are as big or bigger than h4 and 5 ones.
> > > > >
> > > > > That may benefit them more. But I don’t think either of us as any hard evidence one way or the other.
> > > > >
> > > > > Memorizing maps and likely places of movement due to amount of playtime takes no more skill than reacting and adapting to the unpredictablility of encounters.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > After that, I’m glad you gave up on this argument because what is there to say after that? You actually said, and presumably believe, the bolded statement…
> > >
> > >
> > > That was in response to your statement that memorizing maps and movement supposedly takes more skill than reaction, and adapting. It does not.
> > >
> > > And just because I choose to not take the time to write a book anymore doesn’t mean your ‘side’ has won by default. Also I’ve never been completely against your ‘side’, just how you’ve been debating it
> >
> >
> > I know what it was in response to. That’s why it’s so mindboggling that you believe that (granted, the way you’re wording what I said suggests that you didn’t even understand it).
>
>
> This is the passive aggressiveness I was referring to…
>
> I understand quite well.
>
> Reacting in real time takes just as much skill as simply predicting enemy movements. Granted a healthy mix of the two takes the most.
>
> Believe it or not, I guess you can just have your mind boggled that someone doesn’t see the exact same way you do.

No, there are plenty of people in this thread that haven’t seen things the way I do. There’s usually an understanding though. My mind gets boggled when someone says something like you did and actually believes it, while continuing to oversimplify what I said.

> 2533274913913392;10536:
> > 2533274819567236;10534:
> > > 2533274913913392;10528:
> > > > 2533274819567236;10523:
> > > > > 2533274913913392;10520:
> > > > > > 2533274819567236;10516:
> > > > > > > 2533274913913392;10514:
> > > > > > > > 2625759425619671;10503:
> > > > > > > > > 2533274819567236;10502:
> > > > > > > > > Josh did make his original explanation on TeamBeyond (which we’ve also already discussed here). Needless to say, you need only look at the following couple pages after that to see people completely destroy his reasoning.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Nope, that article was actually cited from http://news.softpedia.com and I’ve never seen it discussed in this thread and I’ve been following the thread since it was created. Maybe you have discussed Josh Holmes’ pro sprint views, but he probably just expressed them in multiple different places to different people because he felt that strongly about advocating for sprint in Halo. I haven’t seen anyone “completely destroy,” anything as you’re suggesting- I’ve seen people challenge some of his points… I’ve also seen people present follow on questions, which cleeearly to most subjective people is quite clear that it’s impossible for Josh to field follow on questions after the fact. Could he have gotten further into the weeds on some of the pro-sprint views he expressed? Sure he could have, on a couple of things that we discussed and agreed upon here in the thread. That hardly constitutes anyone justifying that they “destroy[ed any of] his reasoning”
> > > > > > > > If anyone wants to see what he’s referencing here’s a quick link to where it was brought up and discussed in this thread.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Zr0Fear is correct in where the article came from. The article you reference simply quotes and paraphrases his post on team beyond. But that aside, like Josh says there, they have to take into account a lot more people than just those on team beyond, or even us here on waypoint. And like you have said before, whether people agree or believe it or not, Microsoft has hard data they have collect from HCF, alpha and beta tests, and the like, and they don’t have to share every snippet of it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The most interesting data 343 ever shared was how people found the “very traditional” test game they made “a lot of fun” and just decided to scrap it anyway. Pretty much confirming 343 actively seeks out what’s fun and does the opposite.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Your opinion on both those fronts
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Plus the facts I stated. I know some of you like to ignore those sometimes.
> > >
> > >
> > > As you like to ignore facts on the other side. And no, both of those statements are in fact opinion. It is your opinion that that is the most interesting data released. It is your opinion that what 343 has done is not fun
> >
> >
> > Plus the facts that I stated.
> >
> > Also I didn’t say what 343 has done is not fun in that post. Just another example of poor reading comprehension. Are you and Sin just the same person because - and I’m not kidding - out of the more than 10k posts in this thread (of which I have participated in most of), there has been no one who consistantly misunderstood very simple explanations like you two have… and you both happened to pop up during the same time frame.
>
>
> Lol, if I have poor reading comprehension, maybe you should just explain yourself more clearly.
>
> And no need to repeat yourself on your so called ‘facts’. That statement has almost nothing to do with the prior post.

No, you see, you two are the first to have these problems (at least, when it comes to people actually debating the topic at hand). 10k posts and generally no problems understanding what I’m saying. You guys come along (though admittedly, Sin is far worse than you with this) and all of a sudden there’s a problem? I don’t think so.

> 2533274819567236;10537:
> > 2533274913913392;10535:
> > > 2533274819567236;10529:
> > > > 2533274913913392;10526:
> > > > > 2533274819567236;10522:
> > > > > > 2533274913913392;10518:
> > > > > > > 2533274819567236;10408:
> > > > > > > > 2533274913913392;10225:
> > > > > > > > Oh please. You don’t need to pull the ‘not confident in your argument’ bull crap with me. If I wanted to I could turn it around on you and say that youre not confident in your argument for pointing that out.
> > > > > > > > Those maps I pointed out have no more openness than maps in Halo 4 or 5. I concede the fact that Truth is in fact, significantly bigger than Midship. But that is one map. One map is not representative of all of them. I could go through every single map if youd like and point out equivilants in size. And no, the maps in Halo 4 or 5 are legitimately around the same size as many 4 v 4 maps in the original trilogy, It isnt due to their ‘clutter’. Heck, Damnation had quite a bit of ‘clutter’ (man with how many times Ive said original trilogy in this thread youd think I was talking about star wars).
> > > > > > > > That is garbage about risk-reward benefiting one type of player. It benefits multiple types of players, plenty of whom do fine without it as well. and having higher predictability doesnt necessarily mean having more/better strategy. It could just mean that you play the game more and can guess better what the other person is doing. What are you forced to do without sprint to accomplish what you want? Half of what doing good in Halo, whether it has sprint or not, is capitalizing on someone else’s bad play! Someone can make a bad decision in Halo 3 and get cut for it just like they can in Halo 5, those bad decisions just may take different forms.
> > > > > > > > Sprint can add strategy, and benefit for all players. No matter how skilled they are or how many halos they have played.
> > > > > > > > I say again, I like sprint, I like no sprint. I think they can both be fun, fair, and competitive. But treating this like there is only one correct side, like only the anti-sprinters are right, or only the pro-sprinters are right is stupid. There are good arguments on both sides, and if you cant see that you are blinded from the bias you have on one side.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You could say whatever you want, but when you go to “you haven’t played” it doesn’t bode well for what you’re about to say. If I wanted, I could say you’re bad at the game and you obviously don’t know what you’re talking about. Do I say that? No, because it’s unnecessary and I’m able to make an argument. So let’s just drop that.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > You’re really gonna tell me that Hang em High and Rat Race are not more open than any arena map in Halo 5? Are you serious? There’s no arguing there, that’s just false. It you can get actual measurements to the maps, then by all means, do so. If would be nice to have some actual data to put the issue to rest (though honestly, it’s hardly an issue since both sides of the sprint argument generally accept that maps are now bigger). Can I get your opinion on why you think they would increase the size of Truth if it was unnecessary? And do you think if sprint were dropped into Halo 2, that maps like Midship and Lockout would play fine with no negative effect on spawns, re-engagements and where people choose to traverse?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I should’ve been more clear, risk-reward benefits worse players more. They stand to gain more than good players would because the good players are more likely to succeed in a situation without risk-reward than bad players are. Why are you acting like “playing the game more and can guess better what the other person is doing” isn’t strategy or skill? Without knowledge of the game, maps and player behavior, you’re nothing. Knowledge is half the battle in this game. When there’s less you can know, you’re forced to rely more on circumstance rather than your own ability to figure out exactly where to go (and when), what to do (and how) and know what the other player is going to do. Sprint, and the unpredictability and chance that it adds, allows you to capitalizing more on the enemy’s bad play than relying on your own good play. That is something that you could always do, but why increase the frequency of those situations? Good players don’t need that, they’re already playing smart. Bad players on the other hand have less to lose with more chance.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I will keep this brief, as I dont really care for this argument or all the passive aggressiveness on both sides of the ball.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I didn’t say rat race and hng em high weren’t more open, I specifically left those maps out when I mentioned maps that are as ‘cluttered’ or more so than ones if 5. I didn’t day every map in 5 was more open than ever other map in every other game. I mentioned those two when talking about maps that are as big or bigger than h4 and 5 ones.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > That may benefit them more. But I don’t think either of us as any hard evidence one way or the other.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Memorizing maps and likely places of movement due to amount of playtime takes no more skill than reacting and adapting to the unpredictablility of encounters.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > After that, I’m glad you gave up on this argument because what is there to say after that? You actually said, and presumably believe, the bolded statement…
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > That was in response to your statement that memorizing maps and movement supposedly takes more skill than reaction, and adapting. It does not.
> > > >
> > > > And just because I choose to not take the time to write a book anymore doesn’t mean your ‘side’ has won by default. Also I’ve never been completely against your ‘side’, just how you’ve been debating it
> > >
> > >
> > > I know what it was in response to. That’s why it’s so mindboggling that you believe that (granted, the way you’re wording what I said suggests that you didn’t even understand it).
> >
> >
> > This is the passive aggressiveness I was referring to…
> >
> > I understand quite well.
> >
> > Reacting in real time takes just as much skill as simply predicting enemy movements. Granted a healthy mix of the two takes the most.
> >
> > Believe it or not, I guess you can just have your mind boggled that someone doesn’t see the exact same way you do.
>
>
> No, there are plenty of people in this thread that haven’t seen things the way I do. There’s usually an understanding though. My mind gets boggled when someone says something like you did and actually believes it, while continuing to oversimplify what I said.

Thank you, you must not understand what im saying. We just don’t understand each other I suppose.

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> > > 2533274819567236;10534:
> > > > 2533274913913392;10528:
> > > > > 2533274819567236;10523:
> > > > > > 2533274913913392;10520:
> > > > > > > 2533274819567236;10516:
> > > > > > > > 2533274913913392;10514:
> > > > > > > > > 2625759425619671;10503:
> > > > > > > > > > 2533274819567236;10502:
> > > > > > > > > > Josh did make his original explanation on TeamBeyond (which we’ve also already discussed here). Needless to say, you need only look at the following couple pages after that to see people completely destroy his reasoning.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Nope, that article was actually cited from http://news.softpedia.com and I’ve never seen it discussed in this thread and I’ve been following the thread since it was created. Maybe you have discussed Josh Holmes’ pro sprint views, but he probably just expressed them in multiple different places to different people because he felt that strongly about advocating for sprint in Halo. I haven’t seen anyone “completely destroy,” anything as you’re suggesting- I’ve seen people challenge some of his points… I’ve also seen people present follow on questions, which cleeearly to most subjective people is quite clear that it’s impossible for Josh to field follow on questions after the fact. Could he have gotten further into the weeds on some of the pro-sprint views he expressed? Sure he could have, on a couple of things that we discussed and agreed upon here in the thread. That hardly constitutes anyone justifying that they “destroy[ed any of] his reasoning”
> > > > > > > > > If anyone wants to see what he’s referencing here’s a quick link to where it was brought up and discussed in this thread.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Zr0Fear is correct in where the article came from. The article you reference simply quotes and paraphrases his post on team beyond. But that aside, like Josh says there, they have to take into account a lot more people than just those on team beyond, or even us here on waypoint. And like you have said before, whether people agree or believe it or not, Microsoft has hard data they have collect from HCF, alpha and beta tests, and the like, and they don’t have to share every snippet of it.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The most interesting data 343 ever shared was how people found the “very traditional” test game they made “a lot of fun” and just decided to scrap it anyway. Pretty much confirming 343 actively seeks out what’s fun and does the opposite.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Your opinion on both those fronts
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Plus the facts I stated. I know some of you like to ignore those sometimes.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > As you like to ignore facts on the other side. And no, both of those statements are in fact opinion. It is your opinion that that is the most interesting data released. It is your opinion that what 343 has done is not fun
> > >
> > >
> > > Plus the facts that I stated.
> > >
> > > Also I didn’t say what 343 has done is not fun in that post. Just another example of poor reading comprehension. Are you and Sin just the same person because - and I’m not kidding - out of the more than 10k posts in this thread (of which I have participated in most of), there has been no one who consistantly misunderstood very simple explanations like you two have… and you both happened to pop up during the same time frame.
> >
> >
> > Lol, if I have poor reading comprehension, maybe you should just explain yourself more clearly.
> >
> > And no need to repeat yourself on your so called ‘facts’. That statement has almost nothing to do with the prior post.
>
>
> No, you see, you two are the first to have these problems (at least, when it comes to people actually debating the topic at hand). 10k posts and generally no problems understanding what I’m saying. You guys come along (though admittedly, Sin is far worse than you with this) and all of a sudden there’s a problem? I don’t think so.

What are you even getting at

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> > > > > > > > 2533274819567236;10516:
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> > > > > > > > > > 2625759425619671;10503:
> > > > > > > > > > > 2533274819567236;10502:
> > > > > > > > > > > Josh did make his original explanation on TeamBeyond (which we’ve also already discussed here). Needless to say, you need only look at the following couple pages after that to see people completely destroy his reasoning.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Nope, that article was actually cited from http://news.softpedia.com and I’ve never seen it discussed in this thread and I’ve been following the thread since it was created. Maybe you have discussed Josh Holmes’ pro sprint views, but he probably just expressed them in multiple different places to different people because he felt that strongly about advocating for sprint in Halo. I haven’t seen anyone “completely destroy,” anything as you’re suggesting- I’ve seen people challenge some of his points… I’ve also seen people present follow on questions, which cleeearly to most subjective people is quite clear that it’s impossible for Josh to field follow on questions after the fact. Could he have gotten further into the weeds on some of the pro-sprint views he expressed? Sure he could have, on a couple of things that we discussed and agreed upon here in the thread. That hardly constitutes anyone justifying that they “destroy[ed any of] his reasoning”
> > > > > > > > > > If anyone wants to see what he’s referencing here’s a quick link to where it was brought up and discussed in this thread.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Zr0Fear is correct in where the article came from. The article you reference simply quotes and paraphrases his post on team beyond. But that aside, like Josh says there, they have to take into account a lot more people than just those on team beyond, or even us here on waypoint. And like you have said before, whether people agree or believe it or not, Microsoft has hard data they have collect from HCF, alpha and beta tests, and the like, and they don’t have to share every snippet of it.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The most interesting data 343 ever shared was how people found the “very traditional” test game they made “a lot of fun” and just decided to scrap it anyway. Pretty much confirming 343 actively seeks out what’s fun and does the opposite.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Your opinion on both those fronts
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Plus the facts I stated. I know some of you like to ignore those sometimes.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > As you like to ignore facts on the other side. And no, both of those statements are in fact opinion. It is your opinion that that is the most interesting data released. It is your opinion that what 343 has done is not fun
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Plus the facts that I stated.
> > > >
> > > > Also I didn’t say what 343 has done is not fun in that post. Just another example of poor reading comprehension. Are you and Sin just the same person because - and I’m not kidding - out of the more than 10k posts in this thread (of which I have participated in most of), there has been no one who consistantly misunderstood very simple explanations like you two have… and you both happened to pop up during the same time frame.
> > >
> > >
> > > Lol, if I have poor reading comprehension, maybe you should just explain yourself more clearly.
> > >
> > > And no need to repeat yourself on your so called ‘facts’. That statement has almost nothing to do with the prior post.
> >
> >
> > No, you see, you two are the first to have these problems (at least, when it comes to people actually debating the topic at hand). 10k posts and generally no problems understanding what I’m saying. You guys come along (though admittedly, Sin is far worse than you with this) and all of a sudden there’s a problem? I don’t think so.
>
>
> What are you even getting at

I’m saying that even though you both get mad at things some people are saying about sprint or how it works, you usually either seem to respond with a misunderstanding of what they say (in most case, it’s of something very easy to understand) or spin what they say in a way that looks almost as if you’re just looking for a reason to complain. I’m telling you that given how this has yet to really happen in this thread (again, amongst people actually debating, not people that stop by purely to complain), that this is your problem, not ours. I know I’m not the only one that has said this over the last 30 pages, so perhaps you should work to fix the problem on your end and stop assuming it’s on ours. You’re sounding like a crazy person that is convinced he’s the only sane one. Same goes for Sin, who seems like a serial complainer with a blatant disregard for facts he’s unaware.

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> > > > Wrong, you need two movement speeds to add variation.
> > >
> > >
> > > 1. Why?
> > >
> > > 2. You don’t need sprint to accomplish this.
> >
> >
> > Changes encounters.
>
>
> So does strafing, jumping, crouching, nades, and your own map movement creativity. Sprint doesn’t add anything of significance to encounters.

Yea but I like this way of doing it better, in addition to all of those other ways you mentioned. It also changes when I know someone saw me around a corner and I can vary my speed so I don’t pop out exactly when they are expecting.