The sprint discussion thread

Games Halo 5: Guardians
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> > > > > 7) The main problem with Halo 3 in the competitive community was the movement speed. It took them a long time to fix this and agree upon a new base movement speed as a result which led to a LOT OF TIME where Halo 3 was viewed as not being competitive enough… Eventually yes, the MLG community adapted and figured it out- they had to take matters into their own hands by increasing the base movement speed to make the game more competitive. This was a huge problem and it took a very, very long time for the MLG community to decide and actually universally agree upon 10% faster base movement speed in order to compensate for Halo 3’s default BMS being too slow. That’s what happened and nowadays anti-sprinters are trying to write this off by claiming it was done for FoV or strafing, among other unsubstantiated and invalid claims because they know the truth doesn’t support removing sprint. The truth is that removing sprint would create the base movement speed problem all over again, resulting in another crisis for the pro community just like not having sprint did during the Halo 3 days.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Point #7 cuz we’re done arguing anything else till senses come to reality.
> > > >
> > > > H3 BMS was not an issue. Look up vids comparing it to other games of the franchise. Ironic that hreach and after happen to be the slowest in BMS and pacing overall. So if h3s “BMS” ruined competive play, why is it not now? It’s even worse than h3s lol. Sorry to say, but you haven’t given any resource showing anything that relates to h3s BMS being an issue where as I can google up “halo 3 base movement speed” and you’ll see many reference/tests only to find it was the same as 1-3 and then say the FoV was the issue. Did mlg touch BMS? Correct! But only to fix the -Yoink- effect FoV had, not slow gameplay.
> > > >
> > > > How much did you watch h3 mlg? Where are you gathering this conclusion from? Or is it only a thought that you’re turning into fact? I don’t think I’ve seen anyone but you say this, yet I see many already tell you that the FoV was the issue yet you refuse to believe it, then say it’s invalid, without showing anything to show for it, and you wonder why so many don’t take every word you say seriously on this…
> >
> >
> > 1) My issue is your baseless assumptions lol.
> >
> > 2) When you pm’d me you said I’m just like any anti-sprinter yet I’m not even in full support, you’d know that had you read my crap.
> >
> > 3) Just to come off as clear (and nice as possible)
> >
> > 4) sorry if you see me as being an -Yoink-, it really isn’t my intention,
> >
> > 5) but I believe you’re blowing things out of proportion just as others have as well.
> >
> > 6) Again, I don’t care if you like sprint, I’ve no issue with that, but you list reasons that can be achieved in different ways that can ALSO appease others as well where as the current iteration of sprint doesn’t play out for everyone.
> >
> > 7) Are you really vs a simple fix to BMS? Why? How? Previous and current games made/make it work. Why can’t halo?
>
>
> I PM’d you to try to come to some middle ground with you. I PM’d you in order to avoid de-railing a thread where you decided to toss insults at me instead of logically discussing sprint and the effects it has on Halo. And look at your reply here- you spent about half of it going off-topic to call me out again.
>
> 1) Tried to call me out on “baseless assumptions,” when I’ve provided paragraphs chock-full of rationale, examples, and “resources,” as you call them to support my opinions. And I’m willing to be objective enough to admit that many of those are opinions, but honestly how many “resources,” do you really expect in the first place in a discussion thread about whether or not people want to keep sprint in Halo??
>
> -This an opinionated issue at its core- and people from both sides have often spoke to one another based upon our in-game experiences in past Halo games. You have to be able to accept that, or you’ll else you’ll just end up frustrated time and time again with people. I will give this to you- citing “sources,” does help support ones stance, but in the end of the day most of those sources (such as polls themselves) are based upon opinion as well. You have to be open-minded about that when coming into a debate. If you’ve noticed, I’ve gone through great lengths to point out what I’m basing each of my points upon (including the few of all my points that were based around my own opinion).
>
> 2) I do read your, “crap,” believe me.
>
> 3) That’s another one of those unnecessary jabs- why can’t you just focus on debating the issue instead of tossing around insults like that? It would be easier for me to understand your points and respond to them if you could cut the “crap,” as you say, and just get to the point about sprint and it’s effects on Halo instead.
>
> 4) I never cursed at you and no need to go there…
>
> 5) Can you explain how? I’ve gone back through my posts and let’s see how I’ve done keeping things in “proportion”…
>
> -At **Zr0Fear v2’**s request I listed out 7 pro sprint points here; defending sprint and its effects on Halo… And I respectfully and logically defended those points here and once again here.
>
> -At Obi Wlan Kenobi’s request, I listed out 7 pro sprint points here; respectfully and logically defending sprint and its effects on Halo.
>
> -At LilTygerLilly’s request I listed out 13 pro sprint points here; respectfully and logically defending sprint and its effects on Halo.
>
> -I’ve responded to your posts as well, among many, many other users who have asked me to provide my rationale defending sprint and its effects on Halo.
>
> 6) I’m all for finding a middle ground by constructively debating this issue with people… That’s one of my primary objectives in returning here again and again to debate sprint and its effects on Halo. And look, I know I’ve spent some effort just beckoning a few people to show basic respect and decency for other people on this thread, but honestly it’s sad that I even had to do that at all… And the intent was just to get people to merely respect other peoples’ opinions on this issue in order to ultimately remain on topic. If you want to get on anybody for being, “hostile,” how about you help out with this instead on inflaming the issue even further?
>
> 7) Refer to #5 if you want to know how and why I do indeed want to find a compromise to the issue of sprint in Halo. I don’t personally think that tweaking BMS is the answer to that, and I’ve explained why that is in many of those points that I cited above in #5.

You both have good, mostly constructive posts, at least recently. UEG ShadowAngel, you had a really good point about how one of the big problems is that so many people on both sides refuse to see the other side. Its not a black and white issue, and there are positives and negatives to both sides. I don’t think sprint is the one and only, or even major thing to blame for Halo’s decline. And I think a future halo game has the potential to be done well (or poorly for that matter) whether they decide to go with only BMS, or with sprint (or both depending on mode), as more than just those factors determine whether a game is good or not. People like to cry about map design, well, if it is poor map design, it is poor map design. You should be able to design good maps whether or not you have sprint in the game. There are two sides to this issue and neither one has the end-all-be-all trump card over the other.

10444

CE didn’t have sprint. FACT. CE is the best halo by a mile. FACT. I think we can put this thread to rest now.

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> This thread is still sprinting forward and onwards I see lol

Lolz, but you really mustn’t be so punny about it!

Someone else may just hear you say “sprint,” and cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war once more if you don’t explain yourself… For what it’s worth, I’m whole-heartedly with you on this. I say, “Yeah, sprint onwards to glorious victory my fellow Halo fans!!!”

Matter of fact, sprint until you drop then keep sprinting some more!

Btw, here’s an interesting piece of reading if anyone if curious to hear one of 343i’s developers backing up sprint and explaining how it’s been carefully balanced!

10446

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> This thread is still sprinting forward and onwards I see lol

(Facepalms) Good one. Lol.

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> > > > > > > > > > > Wow, this thing is about to get 10,000 replies.
> > > > > > > > > > > I think that sprint is fine, just get used to it. 343 isn’t getting rid of it anytime soon.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > “Don’t like it? Don’t play it.” or “Just adapt to the new system.” These kinds of comments tell me that those people are thinking they are correct and everyone else is wrong, immature mentality. Furthermore, those people never explained how and why sprint is fine/good in/for Halo, and expect us to agree with them.
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> > > > > > > > > You’re mistaken- people do not have to explain to you how and why sprint is good… They can if they want do but if they choose not to explain than that doesn’t diminish their opinion like you’re inferring.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > That just means everything they say after their initial “it’s fine” is of no importance whatsoever. Though, if they want to be taken seriously as far as this discussion goes, an explanation is required for that.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Not at all… Just like those polls you anti sprint guys like to bring up- those just boil down to opinions anyway. When people share your opinion it’s fine but for you guys they just have to get into a debate with you to be “taken seriously,” huh? Why for, you’re not going to agree with anything pro sprinters tell you anyway. Bottom line is that “Keep sprint,” or “Don’t keep sprint” is an opinionated question… One doesn’t need to respond to such a poll with an explanation of why they want to keep sprint in order to be taken seriously- though anti sprinters don’t want to cite all the polls where “keep sprint,” wins anyway… Just easier for you guys to minimize and under value opinions when they don’t line up with yours, right??
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I didn’t ask about your denial. There was no reason to bring it up.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If someone wants to take part in this discussion, explanations are required. That’s what discussions are for. End of story.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > What denial??? You’re literally the one trying to deny people from contributing if they don’t agree with you. I don’t care what you asked me for either- if people want to say “Keep sprint because I like it,” then their opinion still matters and is completely valid despite your desperate and bias attempts to undervalue those opinions…
> >
> >
> > My bad.
>
>
> Admission is the first step towards healing my friend… On behalf of all the pro sprinters you’ve told that their opinions are worthless in this thread, I do accept your humble apology. Now let’s try letting them actually post their opinions without being attacked. Keep up the good work!

(Reads previous arguments, and realises)
HAHAHAHAHAHA.

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> MODERATOR EDIT:
>
> As this thread has reached 10,000 posts, there is no better time to make it clear that this is the official sprint thread where all sprint related discussion shall be directed, and give the title an accompanying face lift.
>
> Original OP:
>
>
> > Halo 6 could be the game EVERYONE wants by removing sprint in campaign (yes because who the -Yoink- needs TWO movement speeds in campaign???) and
> > arena multiplayer at first I thought a no sprint playlist might be optimal but hear me out. I pretty sure the new spartan abilities (save -Yoinking!- spartan charge) would be GENERALLY accepted in a halo game if they werent accompanied by sprint it would feel more competitive more strategic and would also still be recognizable to the fine tuned experience we got in halo 5. Warzone and customs would be a whole other beast entirely retaining ALL the features that made halo 5 successful would keep warzone great and would also allow more options for custom games, for those people that actually wanted to play in a sprint arena type setting they could actually fire up the in game custom game lobby adjust the filter and be good to go! lets face it, sprint has NO place in competitve halo and to argue that it does would just be absurd. this would allow arena maps to continue to be designed the PROPER way and please the vets and basically everyone whos willing to give it a chance and you wouldnt lose much of your sprint loving audience at all because there would still be sprint in the game it would just take a backseat!
> > Thoughts? :3

Sprint should be the least of our problems. with Halo. In Halo 4, I can see why people would make a valid argument because in there, it truly doesn’t add much to the gameplay other than to “feel” faster. Personally I am fine with that and have been playing halo since the beginning.
However, with Halo 5, Sprint has become an essential game mechanic because of how well implemented it is with other abilities such as boost, spartan charge, and the most important (for me at least) the slide. With these other mechanics coming into play. There is an added Fluidity to movement adn brings on a new tactic in gameplay when utilizing Sprint. Without such Abilities, Sprint would seem like an addition with no weight other than asthetically pleasing to the player. But Halo 5 changed the role in Sprint.
I favor the sprint because I favor the slides, spartan charge, boost, and clambers. It creates a wider dimension of gun play and offers more ways to approach in combat. It adds complexity while still maintaining core gameplay mechanics that is recognized in Halo: Halo trifecta which is Grenades, guns, and Melee. All of the essentials are still maintained, preserving the Halo identity we’ve grown attached to. It still stands out from other FPS.
In addition, this allows for more creative maps Like the warzone maps and BTB refresh maps. Although arena maps needs more versatility in it’s design and art direction, the maps complement the old and new mechanics quite well. So we have really fluid gameplay.
Campaing levels, athough bad story-wise, brought in more dynamic level desgins which I loved. However, it does need more open sandbox style maps.
We should be more concerned about the bugs in matchmaking right now. imrpoving the UI and fixing certain glitches that still happen in the game right now.

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> I favor the sprint because I favor the slides, spartan charge, boost, and clambers. It creates a wider dimension of gun play and offers more ways to approach in combat. It adds complexity while still maintaining core gameplay mechanics that is recognized in Halo: Halo trifecta which is Grenades, guns, and Melee. All of the essentials are still maintained, preserving the Halo identity we’ve grown attached to. It still stands out from other FPS.

But you know those abilities don’t need sprint to function, right? If you just tied slide to forward momentum, and a button press, possibly crouch, then you get the same effect. Furthermore, you know that your inability to be fully in control of each of these actions means that your options for gun play are limited when you perform them?

That’s discounting how each ability negatively affects the maps they’re designed around and even your basic movement skillgap, but that’s another argument. But as a counterpoint, how does it make Halo stand out? You can ground pound in CoD, and Destiny. You can slide in both of those games. Sprint. Even clambering’s present in CoD, but to an arguably less impacting degree. It’s using the exact same abilities in other games, rather than just sticking to a simple and rudimentary movement type, such as that in earlier Halo titles. It just serves to homogenize the title with its competitors, rather than differentiate it from them and thus stand out as unique.

10450

Hey so I found this awesome article defending sprint, quoting Josh Holmes, 343i Executive Producer (formerly Franchise Creative Director)

Josh Holmes opens with, "Sprint is an action that feels natural in the context of combat…"

-I couldn’t possibly agree more… Sorta coincides with exactly what I’ve been saying here in this thread

Josh continues to explain, "it makes sense as an action that all Spartans are capable of,"

-Hey remember all those things I’ve stated about sprint being: realistic, immersive, even coincidentally true to lore?? Josh agrees that all those things combined merge together to support having sprint in Halo.

Josh goes on to say, "it creates opportunities on offense and defense when handled well,"

-I guess mastering sprint does add another unique and challenging aspect to Halo’s combat afterall…

Josh then states, "it is being carefully balanced,"

-As stated before, this is why there is no sprint/shoot in Halo 5- in order to balance, enhance, and fine tune competitive gameplay.

John goes on, "it’s something that most Halo players expect,"

-Expectations are everything these days which is what I’ve been trying to say… We don’t want our fellow Halo fans picking up a new Halo game just to put it down because it changed the game by trying to remove something as core as sprint.

And Josh says, "and it’s something that we want to keep consistent with other modes where it plays an even more prominent role,"

-I’ve mentioned this before… Sprint has become a core mechanic of Halo, from which multiple other mechanics now branch off of it.

Josh follows with, "Sprint can be used offensively and defensively,"

-Another cool way that the developers tweaked Sprint in Halo 5- in an effort to satisfy the majority of gamers (as I’ve always stated)

The developer also fleshes out a bit more the offensive and defensive situations in which Sprint can work, as well as the different tradeoffs that exist when activating the ability:

"On offense you can commit to an aggressive push or flank at a slight cost to weapon readiness. On defense, you can try for a rapid retreat but it carries the trade-off of stalling your shield recharge. The key for us has been to balance the potential escapability of sprint with mechanics like shield recharge and sprint ramp-up, while maintaining a sprint mechanic that feels good," he adds.

-Again every aspect of sprint was executed extremely carefully and clearly with much effort and thought put into making sprint cater to the majority of gamers. Could it get even better with the next Halo game?? You betchya, but the dev’s need to be able to get to work figuring out how to make sprint better, not how to take it out.

Read more: http://news.softpedia.com/news/Halo-5-Guardians-Dev-Clarifies-Sprint-Addition-Says-It-s-Carefully-Balanced-467484.shtml#ixzz4MHLchPvg

10451

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> -Snip-

I mean, Halo 5’s devs also said great things about the story. Same for the tweaks made to the AR, autos as a whole, and headshot bonuses, post beta. And look how all of those things turned out. As much as I respect Holmes for his interactivity on Beyond, how he (A head of the studio/project, not an actual developer of the game) speaks about sprint, doesn’t matter as much to me as the other employees from 343i who’ve spoken about how it was a split decision on removing it or keeping it.

10452

> 2625759425619671;10450:
> Hey so I found this awesome article defending sprint, quoting Josh Holmes himself, 343i lead developer…
>
> Josh seems to echo much of what I’ve been saying about sprint (Great minds do think alike)… Kappa
>
> But you no longer have to take my word for it, why not hear this directly from the developers themselves.
>
> Josh Holmes opens with, "Sprint is an action that feels natural in the context of combat…"
>
> -I couldn’t possibly agree more… Sorta coincides with exactly what I’ve been saying here in this thread
>
> Josh continues to explain, "it makes sense as an action that all Spartans are capable of,"
>
> -Hey remember all those things I’ve stated about sprint being realistic and immersive??
>
> Josh goes on to say, "it creates opportunities on offense and defense when handled well,"
>
> -I guess mastering sprint does add another unique and challenging aspect to Halo’s combat afterall…
>
> Josh then states, "it is being carefully balanced,"
>
> -As stated before, this is why there is no sprint/shoot in Halo 5- to balance, enhance, and fine tune competitive gameplay.
>
> John goes on, "it’s something that most Halo players expect,"
>
> -Expectations are everything these days… We don’t want our fellow Halo fans picking up a new Halo game just to put it down because it changed the game by trying to remove something as core as sprint.
>
> And Josh says, "and it’s something that we want to keep consistent with other modes where it plays an even more prominent role,"
>
> -I’ve mentioned this before… Sprint has become a core mechanic of Halo, from which multiple other mechanics now branch off of it.
>
> Josh follows with, "Sprint can be used offensively and defensively,"
>
> -Another cool way that the developers tweaked Sprint in Halo 5- in an effort to satisfy the majority of gamers (as I’ve always stated)
>
> The developer also fleshes out a bit more the offensive and defensive situations in which Sprint can work, as well as the different tradeoffs that exist when activating the ability:
>
> “On offense you can commit to an aggressive push or flank at a slight cost to weapon readiness. On defense, you can try for a rapid retreat but it carries the trade-off of stalling your shield recharge. The key for us has been to balance the potential escapability of sprint with mechanics like shield recharge and sprint ramp-up, while maintaining a sprint mechanic that feels good,” he adds.
>
> -Again every aspect of sprint was executed extremely carefully and clearly with much effort and thought put into making sprint cater to the majority of gamers. Could it get even better with the next Halo game?? You betchya, but the dev’s need to be able to get to work figuring out how to make sprint better, not how to take it out.
>
> Read more: http://news.softpedia.com/news/Halo-5-Guardians-Dev-Clarifies-Sprint-Addition-Says-It-s-Carefully-Balanced-467484.shtml#ixzz4MHLchPvg

I feel like this might do a lot to move the conversation forward. Good job.

10453

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> > Hey so I found this awesome article defending sprint, quoting Josh Holmes himself, ****(UPDATE - Correction to article on Josh Holmes’ title) 343i Executive Producer (formerly Franchise Creative Director)
> >
> > Josh seems to echo much of what I’ve been saying about sprint (Great minds do think alike)… Kappa
> >
> > But you no longer have to take my word for it, why not hear this directly from the developers themselves.
> >
> > Josh Holmes opens with, "Sprint is an action that feels natural in the context of combat…"
> >
> > -I couldn’t possibly agree more… Sorta coincides with exactly what I’ve been saying here in this thread
> >
> > Josh continues to explain, "it makes sense as an action that all Spartans are capable of,"
> >
> > -Hey remember all those things I’ve stated about sprint being: realistic, immersive, even coincidentally true to lore?? Josh agrees that all those things combined merge together to support having sprint in Halo.
> >
> > Josh goes on to say, "it creates opportunities on offense and defense when handled well,"
> >
> > -I guess mastering sprint does add another unique and challenging aspect to Halo’s combat afterall…
> >
> > Josh then states, "it is being carefully balanced,"-As stated before, this is why there is no sprint/shoot in Halo 5
> >
> > - in order to balance, enhance, and fine tune competitive gameplay.
> >
> > John goes on, "it’s something that most Halo players expect,"
> >
> > -Expectations are everything these days which is what I’ve been trying to say… We don’t want our fellow Halo fans picking up a new Halo game just to put it down because it changed the game by trying to remove something as core as sprint.
> >
> > And Josh says, "and it’s something that we want to keep consistent with other modes where it plays an even more prominent role,"
> >
> > -I’ve mentioned this before… Sprint has become a core mechanic of Halo, from which multiple other mechanics now branch off of it.
> >
> > Josh follows with, "Sprint can be used offensively and defensively,"
> >
> > -Another cool way that the developers tweaked Sprint in Halo 5- in an effort to satisfy the majority of gamers (as I’ve always stated)
> >
> > The developer also fleshes out a bit more the offensive and defensive situations in which Sprint can work, as well as the different tradeoffs that exist when activating the ability:****“On offense you can commit to an aggressive push or flank at a slight cost to weapon readiness. On defense, you can try for a rapid retreat but it carries the trade-off of stalling your shield recharge. The key for us has been to balance the potential escapability of sprint with mechanics like shield recharge and sprint ramp-up, while maintaining a sprint mechanic that feels good,” he adds.
> >
> > -Again every aspect of sprint was executed extremely carefully and clearly with much effort and thought put into making sprint cater to the majority of gamers. Could it get even better with the next Halo game?? You betchya, but the dev’s need to be able to get to work figuring out how to make sprint better, not how to take it out.
> >
> > Read more: http://news.softpedia.com/news/Halo-5-Guardians-Dev-Clarifies-Sprint-Addition-Says-It-s-Carefully-Balanced-467484.shtml#ixzz4MHLchPvg
>
>
> I mean, Halo 5’s devs also said great things about the story. Same for the tweaks made to the AR, autos as a whole, and headshot bonuses, post beta. And look how all of those things turned out. As much as I respect Holmes for his interactivity on Beyond, how he (A head of the studio/project, not an actual developer of the game) speaks about sprint, doesn’t matter as much to me as the other employees from 343i who’ve spoken about how it was a split decision on removing it or keeping it.

Story and gameplay are two separate things… And there are separate teams of developers that work on campaign and multiplayer.

Either way I really don’t understand how you’ve tried to dismiss the article from Josh Holmes. Are you really just going to try to discredit him too? I’d be much more interested to hear you address the points in the article instead of why you don’t like the developers of the game or other 343i employees.

BTW, so turns out you were right that the article was incorrect about Joshua Holmes’ title at 343i… But so were you. Turns out he’s actually a 343i, Executive Producer (formerly Franchise Creative Director) Thanks for pointing this out, I’ll update the post to make the correction.

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> > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree, however it should be removed from game modes such as SWAT and Breakout… Why?
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > No Spartan Charging, No Ground Pounding from Outta Nowhere (insert Randy Orton meme here)
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > Also No Meleeing - Its a cheap kill.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
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> > > > > > > > > > > > Isn’t the point of swat no shields and insta-kill headshots? There’s multiple ways to get kills, why should everyone be restrained to only shooting?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > It proves that you can get kills without buffalo charging or killing someone with Supermans entrance.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > But if your just doing that I swat you’re likely to lose. They are just additional tactics to use. Halo isn’t just about getting as many kills as possible with precision weapons and only precision weapons, no mater the game mode.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > In SWAT you have to aim for the head, not use 3 types of melee abilities…
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > You know they included melee in the original swat for a reason. Nothing discounting that. Spartan charge and ground pound are just evolutions of that. But like you said, the goal is to aim for the head, and if you try ground pounding and Spartan charging all over the place you are likely to die. A lot. You are more likely to die trying toground pound in swat than actually landing a successful ground pound.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Im talking mostly about Spartan Charge than Ground Pound. So when you walk around a corner you dont get spartan charged.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Don’t rush around the corner. And sprintig around in swat is also pretty risky, trying to get a Spartan charge.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I dont really play SWAT often so when I do, I usually get melee’d, and don’t say “dont fight close range” because most of H5’s maps are quite small (Arena).
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Well that is interesting, because according to some people on this thread, EVERYONE knows that the maps are bigger than in past Halos.
> > >
> > >
> > > Have you not seen Trench 2.0?
> >
> >
> > No I actually havent. but I wasnt discounting you. My last post wasnt even directed at you necessarily, even though I quoted you, It was more so directed at the ‘other people on this thread’ I mention. I actually agree with you and think the size of maps hasnt overly changed that much from past games. But there are some people on this thread who will go to war over the fact that you suggest maps arent stretched out.
>
>
> Oh, okay.

Map sizes:

Depending on different metrics the map designers want to achieve, what kind of map flow is desired, maps will take different forms and shapes.

One important thing to take into account is time. Players need downtime, players need time to plan, players need time to setup.

In terms of movement from place to place, there are two factors, distance and speed. These two dictate how long it takes for a player to go from one place to another.

So, the default speed is not anything the map designer can do anything about, or atleast not have much influence over. Meaning, the map designer is in charge of deciding a good time to go from place to place, this means that the distance is the deciding factor.

So, as long as the desired flow, the desired metrics, remain somewhat consistent from title to title, the the time could be regarded as a constant, up to the map designer of course. As I also said, the map designer probably have little influence on the max default speed a player can attain, meaning the distance to travel becomes important.

A higher default speed and somewhat set metrics in terms of times requires a longer distance to travel.
Of course, this is assuming metrics stay somewhat consistent.

Of course, this effect is noticable on smaller maps, not so much larger ones. The Pit was deemed remakable for Halo 4 by someone without screwing the pacing / flow up too bad.
Larger maps I’d argue follow other speeds such as vehicle speeds, and concentrate on other attribute than cramped CQC maps.

However, from what I gather, 1:1 scale remakes in forge of smaller maps, Lockout, Guardian, Wizard etc. Played horribly due to a horrible flow introduced by sprint. Though I can neiter confirm or reject that notion as I never tested it myself, and it’d be no more than anecdotal anyway. However, considering measurements done on Haven ( Halo 4 ) vs Guardian (Halo 3), and Truth (Halo 5) vs Midship (Halo 2), the claim that small maps do not play well with sprint can’t be far from the truth. Haven, Halo 4’s in size smallest launch map, is in length and area larger than Halo 3’s Guardian, which is Halo 3’s smallest launch map. Truth and Midship are selfexplanatory, Truth is bigger in size than Midship, but map traversal times are close to identical, when sprinting.

So, to conclude, not all maps would be up for stretching, so to speak, but smaller maps do feel that effect. This is also dependant on map design philosophy, how the flow and pacing is desired to be, what metrics are in use, the idea behind the map etc.

10455

> 2625759425619671;10453:
> > 2533274886529017;10451:
> > > 2625759425619671;10450:
> > > Hey so I found this awesome article defending sprint, quoting Josh Holmes himself, 343i lead developer…
> > >
> > > Josh seems to echo much of what I’ve been saying about sprint (Great minds do think alike)… Kappa
> > >
> > > But you no longer have to take my word for it, why not hear this directly from the developers themselves.
> > >
> > > Josh Holmes opens with, "Sprint is an action that feels natural in the context of combat…"
> > >
> > > -I couldn’t possibly agree more… Sorta coincides with exactly what I’ve been saying here in this thread
> > >
> > > Josh continues to explain, "it makes sense as an action that all Spartans are capable of,"
> > >
> > > -Hey remember all those things I’ve stated about sprint being: realistic, immersive, even coincidentally true to lore?? Josh agrees that all those things combined merge together to support having sprint in Halo.
> > >
> > > Josh goes on to say, "it creates opportunities on offense and defense when handled well,"
> > >
> > > -I guess mastering sprint does add another unique and challenging aspect to Halo’s combat afterall…
> > >
> > > Josh then states, "it is being carefully balanced,"-As stated before, this is why there is no sprint/shoot in Halo 5
> > >
> > > - in order to balance, enhance, and fine tune competitive gameplay.
> > >
> > > John goes on, "it’s something that most Halo players expect,"
> > >
> > > -Expectations are everything these days which is what I’ve been trying to say… We don’t want our fellow Halo fans picking up a new Halo game just to put it down because it changed the game by trying to remove something as core as sprint.
> > >
> > > And Josh says, "and it’s something that we want to keep consistent with other modes where it plays an even more prominent role,"
> > >
> > > -I’ve mentioned this before… Sprint has become a core mechanic of Halo, from which multiple other mechanics now branch off of it.
> > >
> > > Josh follows with, "Sprint can be used offensively and defensively,"
> > >
> > > -Another cool way that the developers tweaked Sprint in Halo 5- in an effort to satisfy the majority of gamers (as I’ve always stated)
> > >
> > > The developer also fleshes out a bit more the offensive and defensive situations in which Sprint can work, as well as the different tradeoffs that exist when activating the ability:****“On offense you can commit to an aggressive push or flank at a slight cost to weapon readiness. On defense, you can try for a rapid retreat but it carries the trade-off of stalling your shield recharge. The key for us has been to balance the potential escapability of sprint with mechanics like shield recharge and sprint ramp-up, while maintaining a sprint mechanic that feels good,” he adds.
> > >
> > > -Again every aspect of sprint was executed extremely carefully and clearly with much effort and thought put into making sprint cater to the majority of gamers. Could it get even better with the next Halo game?? You betchya, but the dev’s need to be able to get to work figuring out how to make sprint better, not how to take it out.
> > >
> > > Read more: http://news.softpedia.com/news/Halo-5-Guardians-Dev-Clarifies-Sprint-Addition-Says-It-s-Carefully-Balanced-467484.shtml#ixzz4MHLchPvg
> >
> >
> > I mean, Halo 5’s devs also said great things about the story. Same for the tweaks made to the AR, autos as a whole, and headshot bonuses, post beta. And look how all of those things turned out. As much as I respect Holmes for his interactivity on Beyond, how he (A head of the studio/project, not an actual developer of the game) speaks about sprint, doesn’t matter as much to me as the other employees from 343i who’ve spoken about how it was a split decision on removing it or keeping it.
>
>
> Story and gameplay are two separate things… And there are separate teams of developers that work on campaign and multiplayer.
>
> Either way I really don’t understand how you’ve tried to dismiss the article from Josh Holmes. Are you really just going to try to discredit him too? I’d be much more interested to hear you address the points in the article instead of why you don’t like the developers of the game.

I’d discredit everyone until they make a respectable game at launch

10456

> 2533274996011466;10455:
> > 2625759425619671;10453:
> > > 2533274886529017;10451:
> > > > 2625759425619671;10450:
> > > > Hey so I found this awesome article defending sprint, quoting Josh Holmes himself, 343i lead developer…
> > > >
> > > > Josh seems to echo much of what I’ve been saying about sprint (Great minds do think alike)… Kappa
> > > >
> > > > But you no longer have to take my word for it, why not hear this directly from the developers themselves.
> > > >
> > > > Josh Holmes opens with, "Sprint is an action that feels natural in the context of combat…"
> > > >
> > > > -I couldn’t possibly agree more… Sorta coincides with exactly what I’ve been saying here in this thread
> > > >
> > > > Josh continues to explain, "it makes sense as an action that all Spartans are capable of,"
> > > >
> > > > -Hey remember all those things I’ve stated about sprint being: realistic, immersive, even coincidentally true to lore?? Josh agrees that all those things combined merge together to support having sprint in Halo.
> > > >
> > > > Josh goes on to say, "it creates opportunities on offense and defense when handled well,"
> > > >
> > > > -I guess mastering sprint does add another unique and challenging aspect to Halo’s combat afterall…
> > > >
> > > > Josh then states, "it is being carefully balanced,"-As stated before, this is why there is no sprint/shoot in Halo 5
> > > >
> > > > - in order to balance, enhance, and fine tune competitive gameplay.
> > > >
> > > > John goes on, "it’s something that most Halo players expect,"
> > > >
> > > > -Expectations are everything these days which is what I’ve been trying to say… We don’t want our fellow Halo fans picking up a new Halo game just to put it down because it changed the game by trying to remove something as core as sprint.
> > > >
> > > > And Josh says, "and it’s something that we want to keep consistent with other modes where it plays an even more prominent role,"
> > > >
> > > > -I’ve mentioned this before… Sprint has become a core mechanic of Halo, from which multiple other mechanics now branch off of it.
> > > >
> > > > Josh follows with, "Sprint can be used offensively and defensively,"
> > > >
> > > > -Another cool way that the developers tweaked Sprint in Halo 5- in an effort to satisfy the majority of gamers (as I’ve always stated)
> > > >
> > > > The developer also fleshes out a bit more the offensive and defensive situations in which Sprint can work, as well as the different tradeoffs that exist when activating the ability:****“On offense you can commit to an aggressive push or flank at a slight cost to weapon readiness. On defense, you can try for a rapid retreat but it carries the trade-off of stalling your shield recharge. The key for us has been to balance the potential escapability of sprint with mechanics like shield recharge and sprint ramp-up, while maintaining a sprint mechanic that feels good,” he adds.
> > > >
> > > > -Again every aspect of sprint was executed extremely carefully and clearly with much effort and thought put into making sprint cater to the majority of gamers. Could it get even better with the next Halo game?? You betchya, but the dev’s need to be able to get to work figuring out how to make sprint better, not how to take it out.
> > > >
> > > > Read more: http://news.softpedia.com/news/Halo-5-Guardians-Dev-Clarifies-Sprint-Addition-Says-It-s-Carefully-Balanced-467484.shtml#ixzz4MHLchPvg
> > >
> > >
> > > I mean, Halo 5’s devs also said great things about the story. Same for the tweaks made to the AR, autos as a whole, and headshot bonuses, post beta. And look how all of those things turned out. As much as I respect Holmes for his interactivity on Beyond, how he (A head of the studio/project, not an actual developer of the game) speaks about sprint, doesn’t matter as much to me as the other employees from 343i who’ve spoken about how it was a split decision on removing it or keeping it.
> >
> >
> > Story and gameplay are two separate things… And there are separate teams of developers that work on campaign and multiplayer.
> >
> > Either way I really don’t understand how you’ve tried to dismiss the article from Josh Holmes. Are you really just going to try to discredit him too? I’d be much more interested to hear you address the points in the article instead of why you don’t like the developers of the game.
>
>
> I’d discredit everyone until they make a respectable game at launch

Halo 5 has already launched and has been hugely successful… Are you still going to discredit a 343i Executive Producer instead of responding to his points supporting sprint in Halo?

10457

> 2625759425619671;10450:
> Story and gameplay are two separate things… And there are separate teams of developers that work on campaign and multiplayer.
>
> Either way I really don’t understand how you’ve tried to dismiss the article from Josh Holmes. Are you really just going to try to discredit him too? I’d be much more interested to hear you address the points in the article instead of why you don’t like the developers of the game.
>
> BTW, so turns out you were right that the article was incorrect about Joshua Holmes’ title at 343i… But so were you. Turns out he’s actually an, Executive Producer (formerly Franchise Creative Director)

Separate teams work on them, but the same people speak about them. Frank 'O Connor and Holmes have spoken about both multiple and campaign. Both said nice things about both. Again.

And I’m addressing the post, more so going after both of your points, but that post will be out in a while. Takes a while to write out a lot. :stuck_out_tongue:

In finality, the point on what he’s called doesn’t matter, it was more so a figurative statement, based off of his position in Halo 4, given an executive is still high up. The point stands that he’s GOING to speak positively about the game, because that’s the only logical thing to do, despite him not potentially knowing the gameplay ramifications, or just not speaking about them in general.

10458

> 2625759425619671;10456:
> > 2533274996011466;10455:
> > > 2625759425619671;10453:
> > > > 2533274886529017;10451:
> > > > > 2625759425619671;10450:
> > > > > Hey so I found this awesome article defending sprint, quoting Josh Holmes himself, 343i lead developer…
> > > > >
> > > > > Josh seems to echo much of what I’ve been saying about sprint (Great minds do think alike)… Kappa
> > > > >
> > > > > But you no longer have to take my word for it, why not hear this directly from the developers themselves.
> > > > >
> > > > > Josh Holmes opens with, "Sprint is an action that feels natural in the context of combat…"
> > > > >
> > > > > -I couldn’t possibly agree more… Sorta coincides with exactly what I’ve been saying here in this thread
> > > > >
> > > > > Josh continues to explain, "it makes sense as an action that all Spartans are capable of,"
> > > > >
> > > > > -Hey remember all those things I’ve stated about sprint being: realistic, immersive, even coincidentally true to lore?? Josh agrees that all those things combined merge together to support having sprint in Halo.
> > > > >
> > > > > Josh goes on to say, "it creates opportunities on offense and defense when handled well,"
> > > > >
> > > > > -I guess mastering sprint does add another unique and challenging aspect to Halo’s combat afterall…
> > > > >
> > > > > Josh then states, "it is being carefully balanced,"-As stated before, this is why there is no sprint/shoot in Halo 5
> > > > >
> > > > > - in order to balance, enhance, and fine tune competitive gameplay.
> > > > >
> > > > > John goes on, "it’s something that most Halo players expect,"
> > > > >
> > > > > -Expectations are everything these days which is what I’ve been trying to say… We don’t want our fellow Halo fans picking up a new Halo game just to put it down because it changed the game by trying to remove something as core as sprint.
> > > > >
> > > > > And Josh says, "and it’s something that we want to keep consistent with other modes where it plays an even more prominent role,"
> > > > >
> > > > > -I’ve mentioned this before… Sprint has become a core mechanic of Halo, from which multiple other mechanics now branch off of it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Josh follows with, "Sprint can be used offensively and defensively,"
> > > > >
> > > > > -Another cool way that the developers tweaked Sprint in Halo 5- in an effort to satisfy the majority of gamers (as I’ve always stated)
> > > > >
> > > > > The developer also fleshes out a bit more the offensive and defensive situations in which Sprint can work, as well as the different tradeoffs that exist when activating the ability:****“On offense you can commit to an aggressive push or flank at a slight cost to weapon readiness. On defense, you can try for a rapid retreat but it carries the trade-off of stalling your shield recharge. The key for us has been to balance the potential escapability of sprint with mechanics like shield recharge and sprint ramp-up, while maintaining a sprint mechanic that feels good,” he adds.
> > > > >
> > > > > -Again every aspect of sprint was executed extremely carefully and clearly with much effort and thought put into making sprint cater to the majority of gamers. Could it get even better with the next Halo game?? You betchya, but the dev’s need to be able to get to work figuring out how to make sprint better, not how to take it out.
> > > > >
> > > > > Read more: http://news.softpedia.com/news/Halo-5-Guardians-Dev-Clarifies-Sprint-Addition-Says-It-s-Carefully-Balanced-467484.shtml#ixzz4MHLchPvg
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I mean, Halo 5’s devs also said great things about the story. Same for the tweaks made to the AR, autos as a whole, and headshot bonuses, post beta. And look how all of those things turned out. As much as I respect Holmes for his interactivity on Beyond, how he (A head of the studio/project, not an actual developer of the game) speaks about sprint, doesn’t matter as much to me as the other employees from 343i who’ve spoken about how it was a split decision on removing it or keeping it.
> > >
> > >
> > > Story and gameplay are two separate things… And there are separate teams of developers that work on campaign and multiplayer.
> > >
> > > Either way I really don’t understand how you’ve tried to dismiss the article from Josh Holmes. Are you really just going to try to discredit him too? I’d be much more interested to hear you address the points in the article instead of why you don’t like the developers of the game.
> >
> >
> > I’d discredit everyone until they make a respectable game at launch
>
>
> Halo 5 has already launched and has been hugely successful… Are you still going to discredit a 343i Executive Producer instead of responding to his points supporting sprint in Halo?

However, It wasnt a respectable game at launch. :tipping_hand_man:t2: It’s decent now. Besides he’d justify it by saying that halo needs to evolve. Nistolgia is getting in the way and all that jazz. Pretty much just spam me with stuff that band wagoners do on this forum. However, I will make a suggestion. I no longer play halo 5 but maybe you could try it. (Go into game settings in custom games or forge and set the BMS at the same speed that sprint is. Then turn sprint off. I’m not sure if all the SA’s still work with sprint off but if they do turn off ground pound too. Play on a medium sized map and see if you like it.)

10459

> 2625759425619671;10456:
> > 2533274996011466;10455:
> > > 2625759425619671;10453:
> > > > 2533274886529017;10451:
> > > > > 2625759425619671;10450:
> > > > > Hey so I found this awesome article defending sprint, quoting Josh Holmes himself, 343i lead developer…
> > > > >
> > > > > Josh seems to echo much of what I’ve been saying about sprint (Great minds do think alike)… Kappa
> > > > >
> > > > > But you no longer have to take my word for it, why not hear this directly from the developers themselves.
> > > > >
> > > > > Josh Holmes opens with, "Sprint is an action that feels natural in the context of combat…"
> > > > >
> > > > > -I couldn’t possibly agree more… Sorta coincides with exactly what I’ve been saying here in this thread
> > > > >
> > > > > Josh continues to explain, "it makes sense as an action that all Spartans are capable of,"
> > > > >
> > > > > -Hey remember all those things I’ve stated about sprint being: realistic, immersive, even coincidentally true to lore?? Josh agrees that all those things combined merge together to support having sprint in Halo.
> > > > >
> > > > > Josh goes on to say, "it creates opportunities on offense and defense when handled well,"
> > > > >
> > > > > -I guess mastering sprint does add another unique and challenging aspect to Halo’s combat afterall…
> > > > >
> > > > > Josh then states, "it is being carefully balanced,"-As stated before, this is why there is no sprint/shoot in Halo 5
> > > > >
> > > > > - in order to balance, enhance, and fine tune competitive gameplay.
> > > > >
> > > > > John goes on, "it’s something that most Halo players expect,"
> > > > >
> > > > > -Expectations are everything these days which is what I’ve been trying to say… We don’t want our fellow Halo fans picking up a new Halo game just to put it down because it changed the game by trying to remove something as core as sprint.
> > > > >
> > > > > And Josh says, "and it’s something that we want to keep consistent with other modes where it plays an even more prominent role,"
> > > > >
> > > > > -I’ve mentioned this before… Sprint has become a core mechanic of Halo, from which multiple other mechanics now branch off of it.
> > > > >
> > > > > Josh follows with, "Sprint can be used offensively and defensively,"
> > > > >
> > > > > -Another cool way that the developers tweaked Sprint in Halo 5- in an effort to satisfy the majority of gamers (as I’ve always stated)
> > > > >
> > > > > The developer also fleshes out a bit more the offensive and defensive situations in which Sprint can work, as well as the different tradeoffs that exist when activating the ability:****“On offense you can commit to an aggressive push or flank at a slight cost to weapon readiness. On defense, you can try for a rapid retreat but it carries the trade-off of stalling your shield recharge. The key for us has been to balance the potential escapability of sprint with mechanics like shield recharge and sprint ramp-up, while maintaining a sprint mechanic that feels good,” he adds.
> > > > >
> > > > > -Again every aspect of sprint was executed extremely carefully and clearly with much effort and thought put into making sprint cater to the majority of gamers. Could it get even better with the next Halo game?? You betchya, but the dev’s need to be able to get to work figuring out how to make sprint better, not how to take it out.
> > > > >
> > > > > Read more: http://news.softpedia.com/news/Halo-5-Guardians-Dev-Clarifies-Sprint-Addition-Says-It-s-Carefully-Balanced-467484.shtml#ixzz4MHLchPvg
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I mean, Halo 5’s devs also said great things about the story. Same for the tweaks made to the AR, autos as a whole, and headshot bonuses, post beta. And look how all of those things turned out. As much as I respect Holmes for his interactivity on Beyond, how he (A head of the studio/project, not an actual developer of the game) speaks about sprint, doesn’t matter as much to me as the other employees from 343i who’ve spoken about how it was a split decision on removing it or keeping it.
> > >
> > >
> > > Story and gameplay are two separate things… And there are separate teams of developers that work on campaign and multiplayer.
> > >
> > > Either way I really don’t understand how you’ve tried to dismiss the article from Josh Holmes. Are you really just going to try to discredit him too? I’d be much more interested to hear you address the points in the article instead of why you don’t like the developers of the game.
> >
> >
> > I’d discredit everyone until they make a respectable game at launch
>
>
> Halo 5 has already launched and has been hugely successful… Are you still going to discredit a 343i Executive Producer instead of responding to his points supporting sprint in Halo?

Well hugely successful from certain point of view.

10460

> 2533274795123910;10454:
> > 2535441687762024;10442:
> > > 2533274913913392;10440:
> > > > 2535441687762024;10439:
> > > > > 2533274913913392;10438:
> > > > > > 2535441687762024;10436:
> > > > > > > 2533274913913392;10427:
> > > > > > > > 2535441687762024;10426:
> > > > > > > > > 2533274913913392;10421:
> > > > > > > > > > 2535441687762024;10415:
> > > > > > > > > > > 2533274913913392;10351:
> > > > > > > > > > > > 2535441687762024;10347:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 2535417897791132;10346:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2535441687762024;10341:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree, however it should be removed from game modes such as SWAT and Breakout… Why?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > No Spartan Charging, No Ground Pounding from Outta Nowhere (insert Randy Orton meme here)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also No Meleeing - Its a cheap kill.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Isn’t the point of swat no shields and insta-kill headshots? There’s multiple ways to get kills, why should everyone be restrained to only shooting?
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > It proves that you can get kills without buffalo charging or killing someone with Supermans entrance.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > But if your just doing that I swat you’re likely to lose. They are just additional tactics to use. Halo isn’t just about getting as many kills as possible with precision weapons and only precision weapons, no mater the game mode.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > In SWAT you have to aim for the head, not use 3 types of melee abilities…
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > You know they included melee in the original swat for a reason. Nothing discounting that. Spartan charge and ground pound are just evolutions of that. But like you said, the goal is to aim for the head, and if you try ground pounding and Spartan charging all over the place you are likely to die. A lot. You are more likely to die trying toground pound in swat than actually landing a successful ground pound.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Im talking mostly about Spartan Charge than Ground Pound. So when you walk around a corner you dont get spartan charged.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Don’t rush around the corner. And sprintig around in swat is also pretty risky, trying to get a Spartan charge.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I dont really play SWAT often so when I do, I usually get melee’d, and don’t say “dont fight close range” because most of H5’s maps are quite small (Arena).
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Well that is interesting, because according to some people on this thread, EVERYONE knows that the maps are bigger than in past Halos.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Have you not seen Trench 2.0?
> > >
> > >
> > > No I actually havent. but I wasnt discounting you. My last post wasnt even directed at you necessarily, even though I quoted you, It was more so directed at the ‘other people on this thread’ I mention. I actually agree with you and think the size of maps hasnt overly changed that much from past games. But there are some people on this thread who will go to war over the fact that you suggest maps arent stretched out.
> >
> >
> > Oh, okay.
>
>
> Map sizes:
>
> Depending on different metrics the map designers want to achieve, what kind of map flow is desired, maps will take different forms and shapes.
>
> One important thing to take into account is time. Players need downtime, players need time to plan, players need time to setup.
>
> In terms of movement from place to place, there are two factors, distance and speed. These two dictate how long it takes for a player to go from one place to another.
>
> So, the default speed is not anything the map designer can do anything about, or atleast not have much influence over. Meaning, the map designer is in charge of deciding a good time to go from place to place, this means that the distance is the deciding factor.
>
> So, as long as the desired flow, the desired metrics, remain somewhat consistent from title to title, the the time could be regarded as a constant, up to the map designer of course. As I also said, the map designer probably have little influence on the max default speed a player can attain, meaning the distance to travel becomes important.
>
> A higher default speed and somewhat set metrics in terms of times requires a longer distance to travel.
> Of course, this is assuming metrics stay somewhat consistent.
>
> Of course, this effect is noticable on smaller maps, not so much larger ones. The Pit was deemed remakable for Halo 4 by someone without screwing the pacing / flow up too bad.
> Larger maps I’d argue follow other speeds such as vehicle speeds, and concentrate on other attribute than cramped CQC maps.
>
> However, from what I gather, 1:1 scale remakes in forge of smaller maps, Lockout, Guardian, Wizard etc. Played horribly due to a horrible flow introduced by sprint. Though I can neiter confirm or reject that notion as I never tested it myself, and it’d be no more than anecdotal anyway. However, considering measurements done on Haven ( Halo 4 ) vs Guardian (Halo 3), and Truth (Halo 5) vs Midship (Halo 2), the claim that small maps do not play well with sprint can’t be far from the truth. Haven, Halo 4’s in size smallest launch map, is in length and area larger than Halo 3’s Guardian, which is Halo 3’s smallest launch map. Truth and Midship are selfexplanatory, Truth is bigger in size than Midship, but map traversal times are close to identical, when sprinting.
>
> So, to conclude, not all maps would be up for stretching, so to speak, but smaller maps do feel that effect. This is also dependant on map design philosophy, how the flow and pacing is desired to be, what metrics are in use, the idea behind the map etc.

Yeah makes sense. and you are right in stating it seems that BTB maps are the least affected design-wise by sprint, but other maps are debateable. But the idea that every map of every size is stretched, or even most of them, is an incorrect assumption.

I posted earlier, either on this thread or another, that the excuse that sprint makes for bad map design is an untrue statement. Someone can make a map designed beautifully for sprint, just as they can make one not designed for it at all, and one in between. What makes a map good in design is simply how it has been designed, not whether it has been designed around sprint or not. The increase of not-so-quality maps, or unmemorable maps, from reach to 5 is due simply to lesser map design, not due to having to design them for sprint or not.

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> 2533274886529017;10457:
> > 2625759425619671;10450:
> > -Original post regarding a pro sprint article from 343i Executive Producer Joshua Holmes-
> >
> > Either way I really don’t understand how you’ve tried to dismiss the article from Josh Holmes. Are you really just going to try to discredit him too? I’d be much more interested to hear you address the points in the article instead of why you don’t like the developers of the game.
> >
> > BTW, so turns out you were right that the article was incorrect about Joshua Holmes’ title at 343i… But so were you. Turns out he’s actually an, Executive Producer (formerly Franchise Creative Director)
>
>
> Separate teams work on them, but the same people speak about them. Frank 'O Connor and Holmes have spoken about both multiple and campaign. Both said nice things about both. Again.
>
> And I’m addressing the post, more so going after both of your points, but that post will be out in a while. Takes a while to write out a lot. :stuck_out_tongue:
>
> In finality, the point on what he’s called doesn’t matter, it was more so a figurative statement, based off of his position in Halo 4, given an executive is still high up. The point stands that he’s GOING to speak positively about the game, because that’s the only logical thing to do, despite him not potentially knowing the gameplay ramifications, or just not speaking about them in general.

I didn’t ask if you were going after me or my points… You’ve been doing that with great zeal for a long time now. I asked you if you could respond to a 343i Executive Producer’s points when he advocated for sprint simply because you quoted it (sort of, anyway… you -snipped- it out for no reason when you referenced it). You chose to discredit 343i’s developers without explaining why in regards to sprint.

You did mention you felt they did a bad job on the story, I’m just interested to hear you address the points in the article you quoted. To that end- you’ve also told me here in the past to post my thoughts out all at once instead of posting then coming back to post again… Isn’t that exactly what you’re doing why posting first trying to discredit 343i’s developers and executive producer then wanting to come back later to post about it again??

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> > > 2533274996011466;10455:
> > > > 2625759425619671;10453:
> > > > > 2533274886529017;10451:
> > > > > > 2625759425619671;10450:
> > > > > > Hey so I found this awesome article defending sprint, quoting Josh Holmes himself, 343i lead developer…
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Josh seems to echo much of what I’ve been saying about sprint (Great minds do think alike)… Kappa
> > > > > >
> > > > > > But you no longer have to take my word for it, why not hear this directly from the developers themselves.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Josh Holmes opens with, "Sprint is an action that feels natural in the context of combat…"
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -I couldn’t possibly agree more… Sorta coincides with exactly what I’ve been saying here in this thread
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Josh continues to explain, "it makes sense as an action that all Spartans are capable of,"
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -Hey remember all those things I’ve stated about sprint being: realistic, immersive, even coincidentally true to lore?? Josh agrees that all those things combined merge together to support having sprint in Halo.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Josh goes on to say, "it creates opportunities on offense and defense when handled well,"
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -I guess mastering sprint does add another unique and challenging aspect to Halo’s combat afterall…
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Josh then states, "it is being carefully balanced,"-As stated before, this is why there is no sprint/shoot in Halo 5
> > > > > >
> > > > > > - in order to balance, enhance, and fine tune competitive gameplay.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > John goes on, "it’s something that most Halo players expect,"
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -Expectations are everything these days which is what I’ve been trying to say… We don’t want our fellow Halo fans picking up a new Halo game just to put it down because it changed the game by trying to remove something as core as sprint.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And Josh says, "and it’s something that we want to keep consistent with other modes where it plays an even more prominent role,"
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -I’ve mentioned this before… Sprint has become a core mechanic of Halo, from which multiple other mechanics now branch off of it.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Josh follows with, "Sprint can be used offensively and defensively,"
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -Another cool way that the developers tweaked Sprint in Halo 5- in an effort to satisfy the majority of gamers (as I’ve always stated)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The developer also fleshes out a bit more the offensive and defensive situations in which Sprint can work, as well as the different tradeoffs that exist when activating the ability:****“On offense you can commit to an aggressive push or flank at a slight cost to weapon readiness. On defense, you can try for a rapid retreat but it carries the trade-off of stalling your shield recharge. The key for us has been to balance the potential escapability of sprint with mechanics like shield recharge and sprint ramp-up, while maintaining a sprint mechanic that feels good,” he adds.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -Again every aspect of sprint was executed extremely carefully and clearly with much effort and thought put into making sprint cater to the majority of gamers. Could it get even better with the next Halo game?? You betchya, but the dev’s need to be able to get to work figuring out how to make sprint better, not how to take it out.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Read more: http://news.softpedia.com/news/Halo-5-Guardians-Dev-Clarifies-Sprint-Addition-Says-It-s-Carefully-Balanced-467484.shtml#ixzz4MHLchPvg
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I mean, Halo 5’s devs also said great things about the story. Same for the tweaks made to the AR, autos as a whole, and headshot bonuses, post beta. And look how all of those things turned out. As much as I respect Holmes for his interactivity on Beyond, how he (A head of the studio/project, not an actual developer of the game) speaks about sprint, doesn’t matter as much to me as the other employees from 343i who’ve spoken about how it was a split decision on removing it or keeping it.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Story and gameplay are two separate things… And there are separate teams of developers that work on campaign and multiplayer.
> > > >
> > > > Either way I really don’t understand how you’ve tried to dismiss the article from Josh Holmes. Are you really just going to try to discredit him too? I’d be much more interested to hear you address the points in the article instead of why you don’t like the developers of the game.
> > >
> > >
> > > I’d discredit everyone until they make a respectable game at launch
> >
> >
> > Halo 5 has already launched and has been hugely successful… Are you still going to discredit a 343i Executive Producer instead of responding to his points supporting sprint in Halo?
>
>
> Well hugely successful from certain point of view.

Also unrespectable from a certain point of view.