The sprint discussion thread

Games Halo 5: Guardians
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> > > > I 100% agree with Lorient… I love Halo with and without sprint. It plays great either way. Could care less if they keep it or leave it. I just hate the way the “anti sprinters” are. They won’t accept any reason. They will spout out long contrived post about why any reason isn’t good enough or acceptable. They are kinda yoinks about it. But to me one mechanic doesn’t make or break the game.
> > >
> > >
> > > Have you ever thought about why we write these long posts and maybe decided thinking about it from both sides of the coin, rather than dubbing the “anti-sprinters” as the ones that’re seemingly the sole antagonists, solely because you yourself don’t mind whichever way the game goes gameplay wise? Maybe there’s a good reason we’re able to spout off long paragraphs, debating these “reasons”, bar the idea of contrivance.
> >
> >
> > At the end of the day it doesn’t matter why some one happens to prefer sprint. It isn’t any different why some one likes anything. They don’t need some long drawn out scientific reason. People have different likes and dislikes.
>
>
> Truth be told, anti sprinters and most pro sprinters have different perspectives and goals in mind in regards to how halo should play out. It seems that anti sprinters are more concerned about the balance and skill needed for each part of the game in mind, where as most pro sprinters couldn’t care less about how the mechanic plays in competitive levels, so long as they find it fun and immersive. This is why no one will truly agree with the posts each side brings, because there’s a clear gap between what each player wants on both sides.
>
> If you’re satisfied with what sprint offers, then more power to you. But just understand the reasoning for why anti sprinters put out every detail in their posts in regards to why sprint isn’t ideal for halo.

Thank you for at leas thinking out your post and not being judgemental or antagonizing.

I try to see both sides, and there are good arguments for both. I don’t think one is inherently right, an I certainly dont think sprint is the reason (or at least the only reason) halo has been going down in popularity.

(Yes, a lot of anti-sprinters are antagonizing. Simply egging people on, acting like their ‘opinion’ or ‘preferences’ are the only correct ones, treating pro-sprinters like they are second-rate human beings and complete idiots, but there are also frustrating pro-sprinters, they just arent as noticeable.)

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> > > > > I 100% agree with Lorient… I love Halo with and without sprint. It plays great either way. Could care less if they keep it or leave it. I just hate the way the “anti sprinters” are. They won’t accept any reason. They will spout out long contrived post about why any reason isn’t good enough or acceptable. They are kinda yoinks about it. But to me one mechanic doesn’t make or break the game.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Have you ever thought about why we write these long posts and maybe decided thinking about it from both sides of the coin, rather than dubbing the “anti-sprinters” as the ones that’re seemingly the sole antagonists, solely because you yourself don’t mind whichever way the game goes gameplay wise? Maybe there’s a good reason we’re able to spout off long paragraphs, debating these “reasons”, bar the idea of contrivance.
> >
> >
> > Truth be told, anti sprinters and most pro sprinters have different perspectives and goals in mind in regards to how halo should play out. It seems that anti sprinters are more concerned about the balance and skill needed for each part of the game in mind, where as most pro sprinters couldn’t care less about how the mechanic plays in competitive levels, so long as they find it fun and immersive. This is why no one will truly agree with the posts each side brings, because there’s a clear gap between what each player wants on both sides.
> >
> > If you’re satisfied with what sprint offers, then more power to you. But just understand the reasoning for why anti sprinters put out every detail in their posts in regards to why sprint isn’t ideal for halo.
>
>
> Thank you for at leas thinking out your post and not being judgemental or antagonizing.
>
> I try to see both sides, and there are good arguments for both. I don’t think one is inherently right, an I certainly dont think sprint is the reason (or at least the only reason) halo has been going down in popularity.
>
> (Yes, a lot of anti-sprinters are antagonizing. Simply egging people on, acting like their ‘opinion’ or ‘preferences’ are the only correct ones, treating pro-sprinters like they are second-rate human beings and complete idiots, but there are also frustrating pro-sprinters, they just arent as noticeable.)

Trust me, there are plenty of reasons that halo 5 has been on the decline with its life span, mainly being the lack of adequate content at launch with 343 slowly adding staple game modes and other content while playing it off as “free DLC.”

There are also plenty of gameplay issues in regards to competitive/pro gameplay that sprint doesn’t even come close to competing with (in its current implementation). However, this doesn’t excuse 343’s attempt of weakening sprint with slower sprint speed and the ability to be shot out of it if one doesn’t reach terminal velocity, bearing the question of why it was ever needed in halo 5 if we can’t sprint in halo the same way as CoD or BF, especially when there are more efficient ways to increase the pacing of halo while maintaining the original formula of the trilogy games.

10265

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> > You really dont get how games work do you? As much as you like to flaunt game design…
> >
> > Please tell me what makes games run as well as you say…
> >
> > How about every single Halo PC map? 90% of those maps were deadspace, Avalanche only had a tiny bit being used at any given time, same with sidewinder, inside the bases on containment was hardly ever used, high ground didnt have much contact on the beach aside from spawning, the outer ring on snow bound, the edge on waterworks, several spots on terminal, same with relic, i can go on…
> >
> > Seriously quit treating bungie like they were game designing gods. They made good games, but they werent perfect.
> >
> > And apparently you have too much pride to admit it, but this issue has no inherently right side. I have yet to see an argument by a pro sprinter or anti sprinter that makes me say “yep, they are right”
> >
> > At least zrofear has semi thought out arguments, even though he is blind to counter arguments as well. You are just saying “CUZ GME DSIGNE” over and over again
>
>
> I never once treated Bungie like they were gods of design, nor did I praise 343i for theirs. And I have no pride here. But just because you don’t see an argument to make you go “they’re right”, doesn’t mean they’re wrong. You can just keep saying I have pride issues as an anti-sprinter, but I surely don’t just write paragraphs worth of content (And have a ton of people support me on it (Love you guys, seriously)) for fun, or without reason. Not my problem if one can’t see, or denies the reason. No skin off my back.
>
> But you know what makes a game like Halo run well? A singular base movement speed. You know what results from it? Proper pacing and map design with the type of game that Halo is. You know what sprint is? An illusion of choice. Why would we need sprint if you just designed the map around 125% base movement speed (sprint’s speed in game) so you could get around the map just as fast, without putting your weapon down, elongating the map or breaking the pace of the game? Why do you need two movement speeds in Halo? You don’t. It’s a slower paced shooter game unlike *CoD (*Bar CE) which doesn’t suffer from it. There is no reason for sprint to be there when a simple movement buff does everything sprint does, without the downsides. A lack of sprint ups the pace of combat since people can’t cat and mouse away from you, upping the punishment, difficulty and skillgap of the game, it allows for smaller, more controlled maps to be made, with a consistent pace and design (Since you don’t account for sprint anymore), all of which results in a game that’s not only more competitively viable, but also less stressful, since you don’t have so many needless variables to think about.
>
> And it goes past game design, to Halo’s very identity. It’s been a non-sprint shooter longer than it has been a sprint shooter. And the effects from its inclusion are insane. I’ve seen people drop Halo because of sprint’s inclusion, and I’ve seen just as man not pick it up anymore because of that, on top of the other abilities being brought in, because it wrecks Halo’s consistent identity, which it doesn’t even have anymore, given Halo 4 and Halo 5 alone are drastically different from each OTHER, let alone the original trilogy.
>
> If you want a thought out argument as concise as it could be, that’s it. And a lot of stuff in there is something you can’t argue about. You can’t argue map design since it’s provable with new maps compared to old in not only size, but design. Where cover’s placed, how segmented maps are, how spawns work, especially in objective gametypes. All of that is tied into sprint. As much as you can try to argue it, it isn’t a matter of opinion. It’s literally how the game works.

Thanks for not being ‘holier than thou’ in this post.

You kinda did make bungie seem like they were amazing when you said “What halo 1-3 map ever had deadspace” or something along those lines.

We both have different experiences with Halo. I have seen people fall away from Halo, but not one has blamed sprint. I know several people rejoice at the fact sprint was getting included in Halo Reach, and made permanent in Halo 4. Year-wise, yes Halo has had more non-sprint years than sprint. Game wise, it is now split nearly down the middle. Aside from MCC, there have been 3 full Halo games to include sprint, and 4 to not, one of those being ODST.

Halo 4 and 5 are not the only Halo games drastically different from eachother. Halo 1 and 2 were drastically different from eachother, same with 3-reach.

I would agree that Halo needs to figure out what it’s identity is (remember, Im not pro-sprint)

And just because you have paragraphs of material to write to do away with sprint, doesnt mean that youre right, or that sprint needs to go, as there are arguments for it. If you cannot see any good in the arguments for it, thats your problem, and when halo 6 includes sprint youre just gonna be disappointed.

I would honestly like to see a halo tested with bms increased, just so we can play it in matchmaking (maybe halo 3A?). Halo 2A functioned well without sprint. I would at least like to see a classic playlist in Halo 6 if nothing else.

Again, I don’t completely disagree with you on everything. Im not pro-sprint. I just try and see both sides to the argument and there are good points on both sides of this one.

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> > > > > > I 100% agree with Lorient… I love Halo with and without sprint. It plays great either way. Could care less if they keep it or leave it. I just hate the way the “anti sprinters” are. They won’t accept any reason. They will spout out long contrived post about why any reason isn’t good enough or acceptable. They are kinda yoinks about it. But to me one mechanic doesn’t make or break the game.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Have you ever thought about why we write these long posts and maybe decided thinking about it from both sides of the coin, rather than dubbing the “anti-sprinters” as the ones that’re seemingly the sole antagonists, solely because you yourself don’t mind whichever way the game goes gameplay wise? Maybe there’s a good reason we’re able to spout off long paragraphs, debating these “reasons”, bar the idea of contrivance.
> > >
> > >
> > > Truth be told, anti sprinters and most pro sprinters have different perspectives and goals in mind in regards to how halo should play out. It seems that anti sprinters are more concerned about the balance and skill needed for each part of the game in mind, where as most pro sprinters couldn’t care less about how the mechanic plays in competitive levels, so long as they find it fun and immersive. This is why no one will truly agree with the posts each side brings, because there’s a clear gap between what each player wants on both sides.
> > >
> > > If you’re satisfied with what sprint offers, then more power to you. But just understand the reasoning for why anti sprinters put out every detail in their posts in regards to why sprint isn’t ideal for halo.
> >
> >
> > Thank you for at leas thinking out your post and not being judgemental or antagonizing.
> >
> > I try to see both sides, and there are good arguments for both. I don’t think one is inherently right, an I certainly dont think sprint is the reason (or at least the only reason) halo has been going down in popularity.
> >
> > (Yes, a lot of anti-sprinters are antagonizing. Simply egging people on, acting like their ‘opinion’ or ‘preferences’ are the only correct ones, treating pro-sprinters like they are second-rate human beings and complete idiots, but there are also frustrating pro-sprinters, they just arent as noticeable.)
>
>
> Trust me, there are plenty of reasons that halo 5 has been on the decline with its life span, mainly being the lack of adequate content at launch with 343 slowly adding staple game modes and other content while playing it off as “free DLC.”
>
> There are also plenty of gameplay issues in regards to competitive/pro gameplay that sprint doesn’t even come close to competing with (in its current implementation). However, this doesn’t excuse 343’s attempt of weakening sprint with slower sprint speed and the ability to be shot out of it if one doesn’t reach terminal velocity, bearing the question of why it was ever needed in halo 5 if we can’t sprint in halo the same way as CoD or BF, especially when there are more efficient ways to increase the pacing of halo while maintaining the original formula of the trilogy games.

I wasnt just referring to Halo 5. And it is possible those things were done at launch but it is also very possible they needed additional tweaking.

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> > > > > > > 2533274816788253;10248:
> > > > > > > I 100% agree with Lorient… I love Halo with and without sprint. It plays great either way. Could care less if they keep it or leave it. I just hate the way the “anti sprinters” are. They won’t accept any reason. They will spout out long contrived post about why any reason isn’t good enough or acceptable. They are kinda yoinks about it. But to me one mechanic doesn’t make or break the game.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Have you ever thought about why we write these long posts and maybe decided thinking about it from both sides of the coin, rather than dubbing the “anti-sprinters” as the ones that’re seemingly the sole antagonists, solely because you yourself don’t mind whichever way the game goes gameplay wise? Maybe there’s a good reason we’re able to spout off long paragraphs, debating these “reasons”, bar the idea of contrivance.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Truth be told, anti sprinters and most pro sprinters have different perspectives and goals in mind in regards to how halo should play out. It seems that anti sprinters are more concerned about the balance and skill needed for each part of the game in mind, where as most pro sprinters couldn’t care less about how the mechanic plays in competitive levels, so long as they find it fun and immersive. This is why no one will truly agree with the posts each side brings, because there’s a clear gap between what each player wants on both sides.
> > > >
> > > > If you’re satisfied with what sprint offers, then more power to you. But just understand the reasoning for why anti sprinters put out every detail in their posts in regards to why sprint isn’t ideal for halo.
> > >
> > >
> > > Thank you for at leas thinking out your post and not being judgemental or antagonizing.
> > >
> > > I try to see both sides, and there are good arguments for both. I don’t think one is inherently right, an I certainly dont think sprint is the reason (or at least the only reason) halo has been going down in popularity.
> > >
> > > (Yes, a lot of anti-sprinters are antagonizing. Simply egging people on, acting like their ‘opinion’ or ‘preferences’ are the only correct ones, treating pro-sprinters like they are second-rate human beings and complete idiots, but there are also frustrating pro-sprinters, they just arent as noticeable.)
> >
> >
> > Trust me, there are plenty of reasons that halo 5 has been on the decline with its life span, mainly being the lack of adequate content at launch with 343 slowly adding staple game modes and other content while playing it off as “free DLC.”
> >
> > There are also plenty of gameplay issues in regards to competitive/pro gameplay that sprint doesn’t even come close to competing with (in its current implementation). However, this doesn’t excuse 343’s attempt of weakening sprint with slower sprint speed and the ability to be shot out of it if one doesn’t reach terminal velocity, bearing the question of why it was ever needed in halo 5 if we can’t sprint in halo the same way as CoD or BF, especially when there are more efficient ways to increase the pacing of halo while maintaining the original formula of the trilogy games.
>
>
> I wasnt just referring to Halo 5. And it is possible those things were done at launch but it is also very possible they needed additional tweaking.

I understand that you weren’t referring to halo 5 specifically, but it was the most relevant example.

3 years of development and those fundamental features of halo weren’t there at launch? Poor management with the game was the cause, especially with MCC in their hands at the time.

10268

Personally I couldn’t care less it’s just a mechanic and won’t stop halo from being halo.

10269

> 2533274913913392;10175:
> Thanks for not being ‘holier than thou’ in this post.
>
> You kinda did make bungie seem like they were amazing when you said “What halo 1-3 map ever had deadspace” or something along those lines.
>
> We both have different experiences with Halo. I have seen people fall away from Halo, but not one has blamed sprint. I know several people rejoice at the fact sprint was getting included in Halo Reach, and made permanent in Halo 4. Year-wise, yes Halo has had more non-sprint years than sprint. Game wise, it is now split nearly down the middle. Aside from MCC, there have been 3 full Halo games to include sprint, and 4 to not, one of those being ODST.
>
> Halo 4 and 5 are not the only Halo games drastically different from eachother. Halo 1 and 2 were drastically different from eachother, same with 3-reach.
>
> I would agree that Halo needs to figure out what it’s identity is (remember, Im not pro-sprint)
>
> And just because you have paragraphs of material to write to do away with sprint, doesnt mean that youre right, or that sprint needs to go, as there are arguments for it. If you cannot see any good in the arguments for it, thats your problem, and when halo 6 includes sprint youre just gonna be disappointed.
>
> I would honestly like to see a halo tested with bms increased, just so we can play it in matchmaking (maybe halo 3A?). Halo 2A functioned well without sprint. I would at least like to see a classic playlist in Halo 6 if nothing else.
>
> Again, I don’t completely disagree with you on everything. Im not pro-sprint. I just try and see both sides to the argument and there are good points on both sides of this one.

The only legitimate good “arguments” (in heavy quotes) boil down to immersion, which can be fulfilled in campaign, or “I just like it”, which, while fine as an actual opinion, isn’t valid for it to be a gameplay feature. Everything else can be countered with a higher base movement speed which offers many more objective upsides than sprint which only has downsides. And that isn’t just an opinion, it’s provable and a fact, to be absolutely firm, and there isn’t anything I “don’t” see. It isn’t my issue people make flawed arguments and take offense to it, or treat those who go against it as if they’re some antagonistic force. :stuck_out_tongue:

Past that, Halo’s general identity on top of that boils down to equal starts, no sprint, no abilities. Halo 1-3 in a nutshell to a point. Arguing about things like pacing in between CE to 2 isn’t what I talk about, as that’s a different ballgame most people don’t get.

Bar that, one thing that’s frustrated me the most here is that my arguments have been taken as me trying to be “holier than thou”, which is not at all how I’ve been presenting myself. I literally posted here, what I’ve been posting for the past two nights, but you somehow took my most recent post as fine compared to the rest. But nothing about my language changed, past how firm I became. Stating how maps have no deadspace due to a lack of sprint isn’t me praising the company. I’m praising the map design which is entirely different and something I made sure to be clear since in the same sentence I spoke about how inadvertent (And different) deadspaces formed on Bungie maps. And it’s not like I’ve been saying having an opinion’s bad. I openly said that the opinion of liking sprint is fine, but every argument that overlooks or denies its downsides, flaws or fixes is what’s bad, because it overlooks an actual truth, something that, while I don’t wish to prod at, was very much present in your comments earlier, and other’s. The sudden u-turn partially bothers me, mainly, because I changed nothing about what I’ve been preaching, nor any of my views, I just placed EVERYTHING into one large paragraph.

10270

> 2533274860641698;10119:
> Sprint is one realistic hability in Halo, must exist in the game like another games to be dynamic

Why does Halo have to realisitc, why does halo have to be fast paced? These things don’t make a game better, they are just different mechanics. One mechanic doesn’t inherently make a game better because its “cool” or “modernizes the game” its only good if it fits in the game, and completely changing the game doesn’t add to the game, it just makes it a differnet experince than the game was intedned to be. Video games don’t need to be realistic in gameplay than to be realistic in atmosphere.
Games can change without making it into another game, just learn to work around the base game and add different things, thats what gameplay development is about, not changing the roots of your game but adding to what you have.

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> > > > You really dont get how games work do you? As much as you like to flaunt game design…
> > > >
> > > > Please tell me what makes games run as well as you say…
> > > >
> > > > How about every single Halo PC map? 90% of those maps were deadspace, Avalanche only had a tiny bit being used at any given time, same with sidewinder, inside the bases on containment was hardly ever used, high ground didnt have much contact on the beach aside from spawning, the outer ring on snow bound, the edge on waterworks, several spots on terminal, same with relic, i can go on…
> > > >
> > > > Seriously quit treating bungie like they were game designing gods. They made good games, but they werent perfect.
> > > >
> > > > And apparently you have too much pride to admit it, but this issue has no inherently right side. I have yet to see an argument by a pro sprinter or anti sprinter that makes me say “yep, they are right”
> > > >
> > > > At least zrofear has semi thought out arguments, even though he is blind to counter arguments as well. You are just saying “CUZ GME DSIGNE” over and over again
> >
> >
> > Thanks for not being ‘holier than thou’ in this post.
> >
> > You kinda did make bungie seem like they were amazing when you said “What halo 1-3 map ever had deadspace” or something along those lines.
> >
> > We both have different experiences with Halo. I have seen people fall away from Halo, but not one has blamed sprint. I know several people rejoice at the fact sprint was getting included in Halo Reach, and made permanent in Halo 4. Year-wise, yes Halo has had more non-sprint years than sprint. Game wise, it is now split nearly down the middle. Aside from MCC, there have been 3 full Halo games to include sprint, and 4 to not, one of those being ODST.
> >
> > Halo 4 and 5 are not the only Halo games drastically different from eachother. Halo 1 and 2 were drastically different from eachother, same with 3-reach.
> >
> > I would agree that Halo needs to figure out what it’s identity is (remember, Im not pro-sprint)
> >
> > And just because you have paragraphs of material to write to do away with sprint, doesnt mean that youre right, or that sprint needs to go, as there are arguments for it. If you cannot see any good in the arguments for it, thats your problem, and when halo 6 includes sprint youre just gonna be disappointed.
> >
> > I would honestly like to see a halo tested with bms increased, just so we can play it in matchmaking (maybe halo 3A?). Halo 2A functioned well without sprint. I would at least like to see a classic playlist in Halo 6 if nothing else.
> >
> > Again, I don’t completely disagree with you on everything. Im not pro-sprint. I just try and see both sides to the argument and there are good points on both sides of this one.
>
>
> The only legitimate good “arguments” (in heavy quotes) boil down to immersion, which can be fulfilled in campaign, or “I just like it”, which, while fine as an actual opinion, isn’t valid for it to be a gameplay feature. Everything else can be countered with a higher base movement speed which offers many more objective upsides than sprint which only has downsides. And that isn’t just an opinion, it’s provable and a fact, to be absolutely firm, and there isn’t anything I “don’t” see. It isn’t my issue people make flawed arguments and take offense to it, or treat those who go against it as if they’re some antagonistic force. :stuck_out_tongue:
>
> Past that, Halo’s general identity on top of that boils down to equal starts, no sprint, no abilities. Halo 1-3 in a nutshell to a point. Arguing about things like pacing in between CE to 2 isn’t what I talk about, as that’s a different ballgame most people don’t get.
>
> Bar that, one thing that’s frustrated me the most here is that my arguments have been taken as me trying to be “holier than thou”, which is not at all how I’ve been presenting myself. I literally posted here, what I’ve been posting for the past two nights, but you somehow took my most recent post as fine compared to the rest. But nothing about my language changed, past how firm I became. Stating how maps have no deadspace due to a lack of sprint isn’t me praising the company. I’m praising the map design which is entirely different and something I made sure to be clear since in the same sentence I spoke about how inadvertent (And different) deadspaces formed on Bungie maps. And it’s not like I’ve been saying having an opinion’s bad. I openly said that the opinion of liking sprint is fine, but every argument that overlooks or denies its downsides, flaws or fixes is what’s bad, because it overlooks an actual truth, something that, while I don’t wish to prod at, was very much present in your comments earlier, and other’s. The sudden u-turn partially bothers me, mainly, because I changed nothing about what I’ve been preaching, nor any of my views, I just placed EVERYTHING into one large paragraph.

You may have not perceived yourself that way, but that is how you came off, and how youve come off for my entirety of posting on here today other than your last post. You’ve come off as someone who thinks they know better than everyone else, and that everyone else’s argument or logic is flawed, and only you and those who agree with you are right and deserve to be listened to.

Your most recent post didnt include any “I’m just speechless because of how stupid you are” “you obviously dont understand xyz,” or similar statements. Which is why i didnt get as frustrated with you as I had been getting.

There are more legitimate arguements than the two you listed, but at this point, i dont really want to bother pointing them out anymore.

I wouldnt say that’s all halo’s identity is, or that it cant be anything outside of that. (on an unlrelated note, Halo 3’s equipments were stupid, you just reminded me of them with your ‘no abilities’ remark.)

Sprint also does not only have downsides, and BMS does not only have upsides.

10272

> 2533274973685362;4:
> didn’t even bother reading it because it is the dumbest topic out there right now. Just because it has sprint doesn’t mean its not Halo. It’s one whole mechanic, that’s it. If you don’t like sprint, don’t sprint. Problem solved.

Except now there are spartan abilities based around sprint. Sprint wasn’t a good mechanic in Call of Halo 4, but at least it could have been patched. But now, several spartan abilities evolve around sprint and arena is a mess of spartan charges and ground pounds. If you act like a spartan from Halo 3, you’ll eat the bottom of the score board.

10273

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> > 2533274886529017;10269:
> > > 2533274913913392;10265:
> > > > 2533274886529017;10262:
> > > > > 2533274913913392;10175:
> > > > > You really dont get how games work do you? As much as you like to flaunt game design…
> > > > >
> > > > > Please tell me what makes games run as well as you say…
> > > > >
> > > > > How about every single Halo PC map? 90% of those maps were deadspace, Avalanche only had a tiny bit being used at any given time, same with sidewinder, inside the bases on containment was hardly ever used, high ground didnt have much contact on the beach aside from spawning, the outer ring on snow bound, the edge on waterworks, several spots on terminal, same with relic, i can go on…
> > > > >
> > > > > Seriously quit treating bungie like they were game designing gods. They made good games, but they werent perfect.
> > > > >
> > > > > And apparently you have too much pride to admit it, but this issue has no inherently right side. I have yet to see an argument by a pro sprinter or anti sprinter that makes me say “yep, they are right”
> > > > >
> > > > > At least zrofear has semi thought out arguments, even though he is blind to counter arguments as well. You are just saying “CUZ GME DSIGNE” over and over again
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks for not being ‘holier than thou’ in this post.
> > >
> > > You kinda did make bungie seem like they were amazing when you said “What halo 1-3 map ever had deadspace” or something along those lines.
> > >
> > > We both have different experiences with Halo. I have seen people fall away from Halo, but not one has blamed sprint. I know several people rejoice at the fact sprint was getting included in Halo Reach, and made permanent in Halo 4. Year-wise, yes Halo has had more non-sprint years than sprint. Game wise, it is now split nearly down the middle. Aside from MCC, there have been 3 full Halo games to include sprint, and 4 to not, one of those being ODST.
> > >
> > > Halo 4 and 5 are not the only Halo games drastically different from eachother. Halo 1 and 2 were drastically different from eachother, same with 3-reach.
> > >
> > > I would agree that Halo needs to figure out what it’s identity is (remember, Im not pro-sprint)
> > >
> > > And just because you have paragraphs of material to write to do away with sprint, doesnt mean that youre right, or that sprint needs to go, as there are arguments for it. If you cannot see any good in the arguments for it, thats your problem, and when halo 6 includes sprint youre just gonna be disappointed.
> > >
> > > I would honestly like to see a halo tested with bms increased, just so we can play it in matchmaking (maybe halo 3A?). Halo 2A functioned well without sprint. I would at least like to see a classic playlist in Halo 6 if nothing else.
> > >
> > > Again, I don’t completely disagree with you on everything. Im not pro-sprint. I just try and see both sides to the argument and there are good points on both sides of this one.
> >
> >
> > The only legitimate good “arguments” (in heavy quotes) boil down to immersion, which can be fulfilled in campaign, or “I just like it”, which, while fine as an actual opinion, isn’t valid for it to be a gameplay feature. Everything else can be countered with a higher base movement speed which offers many more objective upsides than sprint which only has downsides. And that isn’t just an opinion, it’s provable and a fact, to be absolutely firm, and there isn’t anything I “don’t” see. It isn’t my issue people make flawed arguments and take offense to it, or treat those who go against it as if they’re some antagonistic force. :stuck_out_tongue:
> >
> > Past that, Halo’s general identity on top of that boils down to equal starts, no sprint, no abilities. Halo 1-3 in a nutshell to a point. Arguing about things like pacing in between CE to 2 isn’t what I talk about, as that’s a different ballgame most people don’t get.
> >
> > Bar that, one thing that’s frustrated me the most here is that my arguments have been taken as me trying to be “holier than thou”, which is not at all how I’ve been presenting myself. I literally posted here, what I’ve been posting for the past two nights, but you somehow took my most recent post as fine compared to the rest. But nothing about my language changed, past how firm I became. Stating how maps have no deadspace due to a lack of sprint isn’t me praising the company. I’m praising the map design which is entirely different and something I made sure to be clear since in the same sentence I spoke about how inadvertent (And different) deadspaces formed on Bungie maps. And it’s not like I’ve been saying having an opinion’s bad. I openly said that the opinion of liking sprint is fine, but every argument that overlooks or denies its downsides, flaws or fixes is what’s bad, because it overlooks an actual truth, something that, while I don’t wish to prod at, was very much present in your comments earlier, and other’s. The sudden u-turn partially bothers me, mainly, because I changed nothing about what I’ve been preaching, nor any of my views, I just placed EVERYTHING into one large paragraph.
>
>
> Sprint also does not only have downsides, and BMS does not only have upsides.

So what don’t you like about a higher BMS that makes you prefer sprint?

10274

> 2533274913913392;10271:
> > 2533274886529017;10269:
> > > 2533274913913392;10265:
> > > > 2533274886529017;10262:
> > > > > 2533274913913392;10175:
> > > > > You really dont get how games work do you? As much as you like to flaunt game design…
> > > > >
> > > > > Please tell me what makes games run as well as you say…
> > > > >
> > > > > How about every single Halo PC map? 90% of those maps were deadspace, Avalanche only had a tiny bit being used at any given time, same with sidewinder, inside the bases on containment was hardly ever used, high ground didnt have much contact on the beach aside from spawning, the outer ring on snow bound, the edge on waterworks, several spots on terminal, same with relic, i can go on…
> > > > >
> > > > > Seriously quit treating bungie like they were game designing gods. They made good games, but they werent perfect.
> > > > >
> > > > > And apparently you have too much pride to admit it, but this issue has no inherently right side. I have yet to see an argument by a pro sprinter or anti sprinter that makes me say “yep, they are right”
> > > > >
> > > > > At least zrofear has semi thought out arguments, even though he is blind to counter arguments as well. You are just saying “CUZ GME DSIGNE” over and over again
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks for not being ‘holier than thou’ in this post.
> > >
> > > You kinda did make bungie seem like they were amazing when you said “What halo 1-3 map ever had deadspace” or something along those lines.
> > >
> > > We both have different experiences with Halo. I have seen people fall away from Halo, but not one has blamed sprint. I know several people rejoice at the fact sprint was getting included in Halo Reach, and made permanent in Halo 4. Year-wise, yes Halo has had more non-sprint years than sprint. Game wise, it is now split nearly down the middle. Aside from MCC, there have been 3 full Halo games to include sprint, and 4 to not, one of those being ODST.
> > >
> > > Halo 4 and 5 are not the only Halo games drastically different from eachother. Halo 1 and 2 were drastically different from eachother, same with 3-reach.
> > >
> > > I would agree that Halo needs to figure out what it’s identity is (remember, Im not pro-sprint)
> > >
> > > And just because you have paragraphs of material to write to do away with sprint, doesnt mean that youre right, or that sprint needs to go, as there are arguments for it. If you cannot see any good in the arguments for it, thats your problem, and when halo 6 includes sprint youre just gonna be disappointed.
> > >
> > > I would honestly like to see a halo tested with bms increased, just so we can play it in matchmaking (maybe halo 3A?). Halo 2A functioned well without sprint. I would at least like to see a classic playlist in Halo 6 if nothing else.
> > >
> > > Again, I don’t completely disagree with you on everything. Im not pro-sprint. I just try and see both sides to the argument and there are good points on both sides of this one.
> >
> >
> > The only legitimate good “arguments” (in heavy quotes) boil down to immersion, which can be fulfilled in campaign, or “I just like it”, which, while fine as an actual opinion, isn’t valid for it to be a gameplay feature. Everything else can be countered with a higher base movement speed which offers many more objective upsides than sprint which only has downsides. And that isn’t just an opinion, it’s provable and a fact, to be absolutely firm, and there isn’t anything I “don’t” see. It isn’t my issue people make flawed arguments and take offense to it, or treat those who go against it as if they’re some antagonistic force. :stuck_out_tongue:
> >
> > Past that, Halo’s general identity on top of that boils down to equal starts, no sprint, no abilities. Halo 1-3 in a nutshell to a point. Arguing about things like pacing in between CE to 2 isn’t what I talk about, as that’s a different ballgame most people don’t get.
> >
> > Bar that, one thing that’s frustrated me the most here is that my arguments have been taken as me trying to be “holier than thou”, which is not at all how I’ve been presenting myself. I literally posted here, what I’ve been posting for the past two nights, but you somehow took my most recent post as fine compared to the rest. But nothing about my language changed, past how firm I became. Stating how maps have no deadspace due to a lack of sprint isn’t me praising the company. I’m praising the map design which is entirely different and something I made sure to be clear since in the same sentence I spoke about how inadvertent (And different) deadspaces formed on Bungie maps. And it’s not like I’ve been saying having an opinion’s bad. I openly said that the opinion of liking sprint is fine, but every argument that overlooks or denies its downsides, flaws or fixes is what’s bad, because it overlooks an actual truth, something that, while I don’t wish to prod at, was very much present in your comments earlier, and other’s. The sudden u-turn partially bothers me, mainly, because I changed nothing about what I’ve been preaching, nor any of my views, I just placed EVERYTHING into one large paragraph.
>
>
> You may have not perceived yourself that way, but that is how you came off, and how youve come off for my entirety of posting on here today other than your last post. You’ve come off as someone who thinks they know better than everyone else, and that everyone else’s argument or logic is flawed, and only you and those who agree with you are right and deserve to be listened to.
>
> Your most recent post didnt include any “I’m just speechless because of how stupid you are” “you obviously dont understand xyz,” or similar statements. Which is why i didnt get as frustrated with you as I had been getting.
>
> There are more legitimate arguements than the two you listed, but at this point, i dont really want to bother pointing them out anymore.
>
> I wouldnt say that’s all halo’s identity is, or that it cant be anything outside of that. (on an unlrelated note, Halo 3’s equipments were stupid, you just reminded me of them with your ‘no abilities’ remark.)
>
> Sprint also does not only have downsides, and BMS does not only have upsides.

Uh dude BMS has upsides like a lot. You get to places faster and can aim and shoot and run fast at the same time and we don’t have a second button for diffrent movements.

10275

> 2533274968707582;10273:
> > 2533274913913392;10271:
> > > 2533274886529017;10269:
> > > > 2533274913913392;10265:
> > > > > 2533274886529017;10262:
> > > > > > 2533274913913392;10175:
> > > > > > You really dont get how games work do you? As much as you like to flaunt game design…
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Please tell me what makes games run as well as you say…
> > > > > >
> > > > > > How about every single Halo PC map? 90% of those maps were deadspace, Avalanche only had a tiny bit being used at any given time, same with sidewinder, inside the bases on containment was hardly ever used, high ground didnt have much contact on the beach aside from spawning, the outer ring on snow bound, the edge on waterworks, several spots on terminal, same with relic, i can go on…
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Seriously quit treating bungie like they were game designing gods. They made good games, but they werent perfect.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And apparently you have too much pride to admit it, but this issue has no inherently right side. I have yet to see an argument by a pro sprinter or anti sprinter that makes me say “yep, they are right”
> > > > > >
> > > > > > At least zrofear has semi thought out arguments, even though he is blind to counter arguments as well. You are just saying “CUZ GME DSIGNE” over and over again
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for not being ‘holier than thou’ in this post.
> > > >
> > > > You kinda did make bungie seem like they were amazing when you said “What halo 1-3 map ever had deadspace” or something along those lines.
> > > >
> > > > We both have different experiences with Halo. I have seen people fall away from Halo, but not one has blamed sprint. I know several people rejoice at the fact sprint was getting included in Halo Reach, and made permanent in Halo 4. Year-wise, yes Halo has had more non-sprint years than sprint. Game wise, it is now split nearly down the middle. Aside from MCC, there have been 3 full Halo games to include sprint, and 4 to not, one of those being ODST.
> > > >
> > > > Halo 4 and 5 are not the only Halo games drastically different from eachother. Halo 1 and 2 were drastically different from eachother, same with 3-reach.
> > > >
> > > > I would agree that Halo needs to figure out what it’s identity is (remember, Im not pro-sprint)
> > > >
> > > > And just because you have paragraphs of material to write to do away with sprint, doesnt mean that youre right, or that sprint needs to go, as there are arguments for it. If you cannot see any good in the arguments for it, thats your problem, and when halo 6 includes sprint youre just gonna be disappointed.
> > > >
> > > > I would honestly like to see a halo tested with bms increased, just so we can play it in matchmaking (maybe halo 3A?). Halo 2A functioned well without sprint. I would at least like to see a classic playlist in Halo 6 if nothing else.
> > > >
> > > > Again, I don’t completely disagree with you on everything. Im not pro-sprint. I just try and see both sides to the argument and there are good points on both sides of this one.
> > >
> > >
> > > The only legitimate good “arguments” (in heavy quotes) boil down to immersion, which can be fulfilled in campaign, or “I just like it”, which, while fine as an actual opinion, isn’t valid for it to be a gameplay feature. Everything else can be countered with a higher base movement speed which offers many more objective upsides than sprint which only has downsides. And that isn’t just an opinion, it’s provable and a fact, to be absolutely firm, and there isn’t anything I “don’t” see. It isn’t my issue people make flawed arguments and take offense to it, or treat those who go against it as if they’re some antagonistic force. :stuck_out_tongue:
> > >
> > > Past that, Halo’s general identity on top of that boils down to equal starts, no sprint, no abilities. Halo 1-3 in a nutshell to a point. Arguing about things like pacing in between CE to 2 isn’t what I talk about, as that’s a different ballgame most people don’t get.
> > >
> > > Bar that, one thing that’s frustrated me the most here is that my arguments have been taken as me trying to be “holier than thou”, which is not at all how I’ve been presenting myself. I literally posted here, what I’ve been posting for the past two nights, but you somehow took my most recent post as fine compared to the rest. But nothing about my language changed, past how firm I became. Stating how maps have no deadspace due to a lack of sprint isn’t me praising the company. I’m praising the map design which is entirely different and something I made sure to be clear since in the same sentence I spoke about how inadvertent (And different) deadspaces formed on Bungie maps. And it’s not like I’ve been saying having an opinion’s bad. I openly said that the opinion of liking sprint is fine, but every argument that overlooks or denies its downsides, flaws or fixes is what’s bad, because it overlooks an actual truth, something that, while I don’t wish to prod at, was very much present in your comments earlier, and other’s. The sudden u-turn partially bothers me, mainly, because I changed nothing about what I’ve been preaching, nor any of my views, I just placed EVERYTHING into one large paragraph.
> >
> >
> > Sprint also does not only have downsides, and BMS does not only have upsides.
>
>
> So what don’t you like about a higher BMS that makes you prefer sprint?

As I have said before (I will probably say this every time: Im not pro-sprint, I’m not Anti Sprint), sprint allows for an additional/different level of strategy that BMS doesnt. Choosing when or when not to sprint has consequences and must be taken into account. You cant just run around like a chicken with your head cut off.

Sliding is a fantastic movement ability, and also adds to strategy, and there is no way that I know of to logically do it without sprint.

Those are just a couple I thought of off the top of my head

10276

> 2535409489305717;10274:
> > 2533274913913392;10271:
> > > 2533274886529017;10269:
> > > > 2533274913913392;10265:
> > > > > 2533274886529017;10262:
> > > > > > 2533274913913392;10175:
> > > > > > You really dont get how games work do you? As much as you like to flaunt game design…
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Please tell me what makes games run as well as you say…
> > > > > >
> > > > > > How about every single Halo PC map? 90% of those maps were deadspace, Avalanche only had a tiny bit being used at any given time, same with sidewinder, inside the bases on containment was hardly ever used, high ground didnt have much contact on the beach aside from spawning, the outer ring on snow bound, the edge on waterworks, several spots on terminal, same with relic, i can go on…
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Seriously quit treating bungie like they were game designing gods. They made good games, but they werent perfect.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And apparently you have too much pride to admit it, but this issue has no inherently right side. I have yet to see an argument by a pro sprinter or anti sprinter that makes me say “yep, they are right”
> > > > > >
> > > > > > At least zrofear has semi thought out arguments, even though he is blind to counter arguments as well. You are just saying “CUZ GME DSIGNE” over and over again
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for not being ‘holier than thou’ in this post.
> > > >
> > > > You kinda did make bungie seem like they were amazing when you said “What halo 1-3 map ever had deadspace” or something along those lines.
> > > >
> > > > We both have different experiences with Halo. I have seen people fall away from Halo, but not one has blamed sprint. I know several people rejoice at the fact sprint was getting included in Halo Reach, and made permanent in Halo 4. Year-wise, yes Halo has had more non-sprint years than sprint. Game wise, it is now split nearly down the middle. Aside from MCC, there have been 3 full Halo games to include sprint, and 4 to not, one of those being ODST.
> > > >
> > > > Halo 4 and 5 are not the only Halo games drastically different from eachother. Halo 1 and 2 were drastically different from eachother, same with 3-reach.
> > > >
> > > > I would agree that Halo needs to figure out what it’s identity is (remember, Im not pro-sprint)
> > > >
> > > > And just because you have paragraphs of material to write to do away with sprint, doesnt mean that youre right, or that sprint needs to go, as there are arguments for it. If you cannot see any good in the arguments for it, thats your problem, and when halo 6 includes sprint youre just gonna be disappointed.
> > > >
> > > > I would honestly like to see a halo tested with bms increased, just so we can play it in matchmaking (maybe halo 3A?). Halo 2A functioned well without sprint. I would at least like to see a classic playlist in Halo 6 if nothing else.
> > > >
> > > > Again, I don’t completely disagree with you on everything. Im not pro-sprint. I just try and see both sides to the argument and there are good points on both sides of this one.
> > >
> > >
> > > The only legitimate good “arguments” (in heavy quotes) boil down to immersion, which can be fulfilled in campaign, or “I just like it”, which, while fine as an actual opinion, isn’t valid for it to be a gameplay feature. Everything else can be countered with a higher base movement speed which offers many more objective upsides than sprint which only has downsides. And that isn’t just an opinion, it’s provable and a fact, to be absolutely firm, and there isn’t anything I “don’t” see. It isn’t my issue people make flawed arguments and take offense to it, or treat those who go against it as if they’re some antagonistic force. :stuck_out_tongue:
> > >
> > > Past that, Halo’s general identity on top of that boils down to equal starts, no sprint, no abilities. Halo 1-3 in a nutshell to a point. Arguing about things like pacing in between CE to 2 isn’t what I talk about, as that’s a different ballgame most people don’t get.
> > >
> > > Bar that, one thing that’s frustrated me the most here is that my arguments have been taken as me trying to be “holier than thou”, which is not at all how I’ve been presenting myself. I literally posted here, what I’ve been posting for the past two nights, but you somehow took my most recent post as fine compared to the rest. But nothing about my language changed, past how firm I became. Stating how maps have no deadspace due to a lack of sprint isn’t me praising the company. I’m praising the map design which is entirely different and something I made sure to be clear since in the same sentence I spoke about how inadvertent (And different) deadspaces formed on Bungie maps. And it’s not like I’ve been saying having an opinion’s bad. I openly said that the opinion of liking sprint is fine, but every argument that overlooks or denies its downsides, flaws or fixes is what’s bad, because it overlooks an actual truth, something that, while I don’t wish to prod at, was very much present in your comments earlier, and other’s. The sudden u-turn partially bothers me, mainly, because I changed nothing about what I’ve been preaching, nor any of my views, I just placed EVERYTHING into one large paragraph.
> >
> >
> > You may have not perceived yourself that way, but that is how you came off, and how youve come off for my entirety of posting on here today other than your last post. You’ve come off as someone who thinks they know better than everyone else, and that everyone else’s argument or logic is flawed, and only you and those who agree with you are right and deserve to be listened to.
> >
> > Your most recent post didnt include any “I’m just speechless because of how stupid you are” “you obviously dont understand xyz,” or similar statements. Which is why i didnt get as frustrated with you as I had been getting.
> >
> > There are more legitimate arguements than the two you listed, but at this point, i dont really want to bother pointing them out anymore.
> >
> > I wouldnt say that’s all halo’s identity is, or that it cant be anything outside of that. (on an unlrelated note, Halo 3’s equipments were stupid, you just reminded me of them with your ‘no abilities’ remark.)
> >
> > Sprint also does not only have downsides, and BMS does not only have upsides.
>
>
> Uh dude BMS has upsides like a lot. You get to places faster and can aim and shoot and run fast at the same time and we don’t have a second button for diffrent movements.

Did I say it didnt have upsides? I just said it didnt only have upsides.

10277

Sprint is implemented as well as its ever going to be in Halo 5, but with that said if youv’e got to mess about with a mechanic as much as they have sprint to make it fit your game then you should be asking serious questions about its inclusion to begin with.

10278

> 2533274913913392;10276:
> > 2535409489305717;10274:
> > > 2533274913913392;10271:
> > > > 2533274886529017;10269:
> > > > > 2533274913913392;10265:
> > > > > > 2533274886529017;10262:
> > > > > > > 2533274913913392;10175:
> > > > > > > You really dont get how games work do you? As much as you like to flaunt game design…
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Please tell me what makes games run as well as you say…
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > How about every single Halo PC map? 90% of those maps were deadspace, Avalanche only had a tiny bit being used at any given time, same with sidewinder, inside the bases on containment was hardly ever used, high ground didnt have much contact on the beach aside from spawning, the outer ring on snow bound, the edge on waterworks, several spots on terminal, same with relic, i can go on…
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Seriously quit treating bungie like they were game designing gods. They made good games, but they werent perfect.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > And apparently you have too much pride to admit it, but this issue has no inherently right side. I have yet to see an argument by a pro sprinter or anti sprinter that makes me say “yep, they are right”
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > At least zrofear has semi thought out arguments, even though he is blind to counter arguments as well. You are just saying “CUZ GME DSIGNE” over and over again
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks for not being ‘holier than thou’ in this post.
> > > > >
> > > > > You kinda did make bungie seem like they were amazing when you said “What halo 1-3 map ever had deadspace” or something along those lines.
> > > > >
> > > > > We both have different experiences with Halo. I have seen people fall away from Halo, but not one has blamed sprint. I know several people rejoice at the fact sprint was getting included in Halo Reach, and made permanent in Halo 4. Year-wise, yes Halo has had more non-sprint years than sprint. Game wise, it is now split nearly down the middle. Aside from MCC, there have been 3 full Halo games to include sprint, and 4 to not, one of those being ODST.
> > > > >
> > > > > Halo 4 and 5 are not the only Halo games drastically different from eachother. Halo 1 and 2 were drastically different from eachother, same with 3-reach.
> > > > >
> > > > > I would agree that Halo needs to figure out what it’s identity is (remember, Im not pro-sprint)
> > > > >
> > > > > And just because you have paragraphs of material to write to do away with sprint, doesnt mean that youre right, or that sprint needs to go, as there are arguments for it. If you cannot see any good in the arguments for it, thats your problem, and when halo 6 includes sprint youre just gonna be disappointed.
> > > > >
> > > > > I would honestly like to see a halo tested with bms increased, just so we can play it in matchmaking (maybe halo 3A?). Halo 2A functioned well without sprint. I would at least like to see a classic playlist in Halo 6 if nothing else.
> > > > >
> > > > > Again, I don’t completely disagree with you on everything. Im not pro-sprint. I just try and see both sides to the argument and there are good points on both sides of this one.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The only legitimate good “arguments” (in heavy quotes) boil down to immersion, which can be fulfilled in campaign, or “I just like it”, which, while fine as an actual opinion, isn’t valid for it to be a gameplay feature. Everything else can be countered with a higher base movement speed which offers many more objective upsides than sprint which only has downsides. And that isn’t just an opinion, it’s provable and a fact, to be absolutely firm, and there isn’t anything I “don’t” see. It isn’t my issue people make flawed arguments and take offense to it, or treat those who go against it as if they’re some antagonistic force. :stuck_out_tongue:
> > > >
> > > > Past that, Halo’s general identity on top of that boils down to equal starts, no sprint, no abilities. Halo 1-3 in a nutshell to a point. Arguing about things like pacing in between CE to 2 isn’t what I talk about, as that’s a different ballgame most people don’t get.
> > > >
> > > > Bar that, one thing that’s frustrated me the most here is that my arguments have been taken as me trying to be “holier than thou”, which is not at all how I’ve been presenting myself. I literally posted here, what I’ve been posting for the past two nights, but you somehow took my most recent post as fine compared to the rest. But nothing about my language changed, past how firm I became. Stating how maps have no deadspace due to a lack of sprint isn’t me praising the company. I’m praising the map design which is entirely different and something I made sure to be clear since in the same sentence I spoke about how inadvertent (And different) deadspaces formed on Bungie maps. And it’s not like I’ve been saying having an opinion’s bad. I openly said that the opinion of liking sprint is fine, but every argument that overlooks or denies its downsides, flaws or fixes is what’s bad, because it overlooks an actual truth, something that, while I don’t wish to prod at, was very much present in your comments earlier, and other’s. The sudden u-turn partially bothers me, mainly, because I changed nothing about what I’ve been preaching, nor any of my views, I just placed EVERYTHING into one large paragraph.
> > >
> > >
> > > You may have not perceived yourself that way, but that is how you came off, and how youve come off for my entirety of posting on here today other than your last post. You’ve come off as someone who thinks they know better than everyone else, and that everyone else’s argument or logic is flawed, and only you and those who agree with you are right and deserve to be listened to.
> > >
> > > Your most recent post didnt include any “I’m just speechless because of how stupid you are” “you obviously dont understand xyz,” or similar statements. Which is why i didnt get as frustrated with you as I had been getting.
> > >
> > > There are more legitimate arguements than the two you listed, but at this point, i dont really want to bother pointing them out anymore.
> > >
> > > I wouldnt say that’s all halo’s identity is, or that it cant be anything outside of that. (on an unlrelated note, Halo 3’s equipments were stupid, you just reminded me of them with your ‘no abilities’ remark.)
> > >
> > > Sprint also does not only have downsides, and BMS does not only have upsides.
> >
> >
> > Uh dude BMS has upsides like a lot. You get to places faster and can aim and shoot and run fast at the same time and we don’t have a second button for diffrent movements.
>
>
> Did I say it didnt have upsides? I just said it didnt only have upsides.

So what are the downsides ?

10279

> 2533274921982810;10278:
> > 2533274913913392;10276:
> > > 2535409489305717;10274:
> > > > 2533274913913392;10271:
> > > > > 2533274886529017;10269:
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> > > > > > > > You really dont get how games work do you? As much as you like to flaunt game design…
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Please tell me what makes games run as well as you say…
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > How about every single Halo PC map? 90% of those maps were deadspace, Avalanche only had a tiny bit being used at any given time, same with sidewinder, inside the bases on containment was hardly ever used, high ground didnt have much contact on the beach aside from spawning, the outer ring on snow bound, the edge on waterworks, several spots on terminal, same with relic, i can go on…
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Seriously quit treating bungie like they were game designing gods. They made good games, but they werent perfect.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > And apparently you have too much pride to admit it, but this issue has no inherently right side. I have yet to see an argument by a pro sprinter or anti sprinter that makes me say “yep, they are right”
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > At least zrofear has semi thought out arguments, even though he is blind to counter arguments as well. You are just saying “CUZ GME DSIGNE” over and over again
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks for not being ‘holier than thou’ in this post.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You kinda did make bungie seem like they were amazing when you said “What halo 1-3 map ever had deadspace” or something along those lines.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > We both have different experiences with Halo. I have seen people fall away from Halo, but not one has blamed sprint. I know several people rejoice at the fact sprint was getting included in Halo Reach, and made permanent in Halo 4. Year-wise, yes Halo has had more non-sprint years than sprint. Game wise, it is now split nearly down the middle. Aside from MCC, there have been 3 full Halo games to include sprint, and 4 to not, one of those being ODST.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Halo 4 and 5 are not the only Halo games drastically different from eachother. Halo 1 and 2 were drastically different from eachother, same with 3-reach.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I would agree that Halo needs to figure out what it’s identity is (remember, Im not pro-sprint)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And just because you have paragraphs of material to write to do away with sprint, doesnt mean that youre right, or that sprint needs to go, as there are arguments for it. If you cannot see any good in the arguments for it, thats your problem, and when halo 6 includes sprint youre just gonna be disappointed.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I would honestly like to see a halo tested with bms increased, just so we can play it in matchmaking (maybe halo 3A?). Halo 2A functioned well without sprint. I would at least like to see a classic playlist in Halo 6 if nothing else.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Again, I don’t completely disagree with you on everything. Im not pro-sprint. I just try and see both sides to the argument and there are good points on both sides of this one.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > The only legitimate good “arguments” (in heavy quotes) boil down to immersion, which can be fulfilled in campaign, or “I just like it”, which, while fine as an actual opinion, isn’t valid for it to be a gameplay feature. Everything else can be countered with a higher base movement speed which offers many more objective upsides than sprint which only has downsides. And that isn’t just an opinion, it’s provable and a fact, to be absolutely firm, and there isn’t anything I “don’t” see. It isn’t my issue people make flawed arguments and take offense to it, or treat those who go against it as if they’re some antagonistic force. :stuck_out_tongue:
> > > > >
> > > > > Past that, Halo’s general identity on top of that boils down to equal starts, no sprint, no abilities. Halo 1-3 in a nutshell to a point. Arguing about things like pacing in between CE to 2 isn’t what I talk about, as that’s a different ballgame most people don’t get.
> > > > >
> > > > > Bar that, one thing that’s frustrated me the most here is that my arguments have been taken as me trying to be “holier than thou”, which is not at all how I’ve been presenting myself. I literally posted here, what I’ve been posting for the past two nights, but you somehow took my most recent post as fine compared to the rest. But nothing about my language changed, past how firm I became. Stating how maps have no deadspace due to a lack of sprint isn’t me praising the company. I’m praising the map design which is entirely different and something I made sure to be clear since in the same sentence I spoke about how inadvertent (And different) deadspaces formed on Bungie maps. And it’s not like I’ve been saying having an opinion’s bad. I openly said that the opinion of liking sprint is fine, but every argument that overlooks or denies its downsides, flaws or fixes is what’s bad, because it overlooks an actual truth, something that, while I don’t wish to prod at, was very much present in your comments earlier, and other’s. The sudden u-turn partially bothers me, mainly, because I changed nothing about what I’ve been preaching, nor any of my views, I just placed EVERYTHING into one large paragraph.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > You may have not perceived yourself that way, but that is how you came off, and how youve come off for my entirety of posting on here today other than your last post. You’ve come off as someone who thinks they know better than everyone else, and that everyone else’s argument or logic is flawed, and only you and those who agree with you are right and deserve to be listened to.
> > > >
> > > > Your most recent post didnt include any “I’m just speechless because of how stupid you are” “you obviously dont understand xyz,” or similar statements. Which is why i didnt get as frustrated with you as I had been getting.
> > > >
> > > > There are more legitimate arguements than the two you listed, but at this point, i dont really want to bother pointing them out anymore.
> > > >
> > > > I wouldnt say that’s all halo’s identity is, or that it cant be anything outside of that. (on an unlrelated note, Halo 3’s equipments were stupid, you just reminded me of them with your ‘no abilities’ remark.)
> > > >
> > > > Sprint also does not only have downsides, and BMS does not only have upsides.
> > >
> > >
> > > Uh dude BMS has upsides like a lot. You get to places faster and can aim and shoot and run fast at the same time and we don’t have a second button for diffrent movements.
> >
> >
> > Did I say it didnt have upsides? I just said it didnt only have upsides.
>
>
> So what are the downsides ?

Look at the post above that one

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> 2533274913913392;10175:
> You may have not perceived yourself that way, but that is how you came off, and how youve come off for my entirety of posting on here today other than your last post. You’ve come off as someone who thinks they know better than everyone else, and that everyone else’s argument or logic is flawed, and only you and those who agree with you are right and deserve to be listened to.
>
> Your most recent post didnt include any “I’m just speechless because of how stupid you are” “you obviously dont understand xyz,” or similar statements. Which is why i didnt get as frustrated with you as I had been getting.
>
> There are more legitimate arguements than the two you listed, but at this point, i dont really want to bother pointing them out anymore.
>
> I wouldnt say that’s all halo’s identity is, or that it cant be anything outside of that. (on an unlrelated note, Halo 3’s equipments were stupid, you just reminded me of them with your ‘no abilities’ remark.)
>
> Sprint also does not only have downsides, and BMS does not only have upsides.

Ah, ah, ah, don’t misquote me. I never once called you stupid. I specifically said you lacked an understanding of game and map design to a very intense degree after you said maps had dead space due to a lack of sprint, which isn’t at all true, and DOES display a lack of understanding to a legitimately painful degree. Don’t try to act like that was somehow unprovoked, or undeserving of a tap to the nose, verbally.

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> I don’t get how you can say that seriously. I literally do not get it and for once, I’m actually left speechless. Not only at the painful and cringey lack of understanding, but at the contradiction in the same post. Not only did Halos 1-3 certainly not have intentional, gameplay caused dead space (Bar Burial Mounds due to terrible design, rather than intentionally due to abilities/some external gameplay change), but Reach HAD SPRINT. It was still tuned for it. This just shows a clear lack of understanding of game design, and the ability to argue properly, and I’m not even going to bother with the rest, because that single statement says all I need to know.

If I’m explaining something that’s objective in how it operates and normally wouldn’t be argued, then of course I’m going to come off as a “know it all” or “arrogant”. I’m going to be using definite, confirmatory words, since that’s what suits it. And that doesn’t fit well with people who think an argument’s based on an opinion, which is also misguided and HAS led to flawed arguments, such as the few here. I’m not going to sit here and patronize you, I don’t really care to because I’ve said what I want to about this enough, but I will stress that the constant painting of a gameplay inclusion’s reception (due to how it affects the game) as subjective, when how it operates is objective is a big cause of many arguments, because both of the arguments I’ve had here on it ended up boiling back down to “it’s an opinion”, or “it’s just your opinion”, which it isn’t. Whether or not you like it is. But the effects are not.

And I’m going to be brutally honest, when you compare a BMS to sprint, there is legitimately no upside to sprint. You wanna move faster, but have a solid BMS? Why? You move fast enough in the environment due to the scaling of the map in relation to the character you play as. You don’t need to sprint. You want it for immersion? Keep it in campaign, where you fight AI and can immerse yourself, while map scaling isn’t an issue. Everything that can be said for sprint, can be said for BMS, and said better, since a BMS allows for you to keep your weapon up, on top of keeping a consistent, competitive pace.

Did older Halos need sprint? Not at all. Halos following them didn’t either. And it’s only served to homogenize the genre, since Halo lost a part of what made it unique in the crowded shooter market of today.

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I love sprinting.

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I’d prefer it if Halo didn’t have sprint. Because of sprint, old maps like Wizard and Lockout can’t work anymore because of how SPACIOUS they are. Even Truth suffered from this. It plays almost nothing like it used to. It was a CQC map that had power weapons that relied on CQC: Shotgun and Energy Sword. And while the ES stays in Truth, the Shotgun has been replaced by the Plasma Caster and then the Fuel Rod Gun. That’s also not to mention the fact that there are battle rifles and carbines up the wazoo. That’s not how Midship was. The original map had a prime focus on close range weaponry. The SMG, the Plasma Rifle, the Shotgun, the Energy Sword, the Needler, players would spawn with sticky grenades, in Halo 3 you had the Spiker as well. What do we have in Halo 5? Battle Rifles, Carbines, the Fuel Rod/ Plasma Caster, the Plasma Pistol, the Hydra Launcher, and then there’s the Storm Rifle, the SMG, the Energy Sword, and the AR, with frag grenade spawns, and the map has been stretched to probably almost twice its original size. There are still close range weapons in there, but again, that isn’t the focus in Truth. There is a much bigger focus on mid to long range weaponry. Sure, there was a carbine in the OG Midship, but that had limited use because of the short sight lines. It saddens me that the only true CQC maps in H5 have only lots of corners and small rooms. Now, listen, I’m not saying Truth is a bad map, in fact I think it’s one of the best in the game. The CTF matches are so intense and fun on this map, but it’s clear to me that this isn’t Midship.