I don’t really care either way. I think people make way to big of a deal on the topic of sprint. Sprint doesn’t make or break a halo game.
Hey the name changed!
> 2533274815533909;10022:
> > 2533274825101441;10013:
> > > 2535450703392903;10007:
> > > I wonder how many people here have played the new doom.
> > >
> > > The movement in that game is the direction future Halo games should take. No sprint, but very fast movement speed. Mantling and a slight double jump that can change a player’s direction mid air.
> > >
> > > You could even add slide and ground pound to it.
> > >
> > > The new Doom gets a bad reputation because certain affinity(H4 MP devs) butchered the MP just like they did with H4’s. The campaign though, is amazing. Especially the movement which really nails that immersive super solider feel much better than H5 does.
> > >
> > > H5’s movement feels really clunky in comparison to Doom because you have to slow to a crawl in order to shoot in H5 and that is the inherent issue with sprint in games with long kill times. Which is why high BMS is a much better fit for Halo than sprint is.
> >
> >
> > I played the New Doom and hated it. The base speed is ridiculous like everybody is running around on -Yoink!-. I will not play any MP game with base movement speed that fast.
>
>
> I don’t think Tails is saying make it the speed of Doom, I think he’s saying that kind of idea.
>
>
>
>
> > 2535455681930574;10016:
> > > 2535450703392903;10007:
> > > I wonder how many people here have played the new doom.
> > >
> > > The movement in that game is the direction future Halo games should take. No sprint, but very fast movement speed. Mantling and a slight double jump that can change a player’s direction mid air.
> > >
> > > You could even add slide and ground pound to it.
> > >
> > > The new Doom gets a bad reputation because certain affinity(H4 MP devs) butchered the MP just like they did with H4’s. The campaign though, is amazing. Especially the movement which really nails that immersive super solider feel much better than H5 does.
> > >
> > > H5’s movement feels really clunky in comparison to Doom because you have to slow to a crawl in order to shoot in H5 and that is the inherent issue with sprint in games with long kill times. Which is why high BMS is a much better fit for Halo than sprint is.
> >
> >
> > Doom’s movement may have no sprint, but that doesn’t make it similar to halo. Also, 343 made halo 4’s mp and certain affinity made halo 2A if I am correct. If you want a clunky feeling BMS, play halo 5, then play CoD.
>
>
> I think your right on who made what games. Not to sound like a 343I hater, but my god I wish certain affinity made the maps in halo 5 and future Halo games. The H2A maps look AMAZING! And the interactive environments adds so much to the games. H2A maps are my favorite Halo maps ever.
I like the Halo 5 multiplayer and maps, but Halo 2A was amazing! Probably the best halo multiplayer experience.
> 2535415337067255;10037:
> Sprint keep doing well to play in every aspect
No it does not. It ruins map control, streches maps to accomodate Sprint, makes Halo slower paced, Cat & Mouse situations, Devd increased bullet magnetism for Sprint as shown in Halo 5, rewards running away instead of outplaying or -thinking your opponent.
You would get same feeling as sprinting if Halos FOV (Field of View) would be larger and default movement speed increased.
> 2533274825830455;10040:
> To celebrate 10,000 posts, the title of this thread has received a face lift to reflect its status. As has been done for the past few months, all sprint related disucssion is directed here. Now it’s just official.
>
> Now, carry on with the discussion.
Awesome - in honor of this change can we get a AMA with the dev team on this topic?
> 2533274825830455;10040:
> To celebrate 10,000 posts, the title of this thread has received a face lift to reflect its status. As has been done for the past few months, all sprint related disucssion is directed here. Now it’s just official.
>
> Now, carry on with the discussion.
Are you “The Monitor of The sprint discussion thread” or something? Because I feel like we have created a sub-community here on waypoint.
> 2533274802441922;10041:
> > 2625759425619671;10038:
> > > 2533274932051506;9971:
> > > A BUNCH OF YOU ARE HYPOCRITES. You complain about sprint yet you use it still. Here’s an idea don’t sprint. Did i blow your mind. I know its crazy that no one has said this unless they have im sorry.
> >
> >
> > Yup I’ve actually pointed this out… The anti sprinters just chose not to avoid responding to it at the time
>
>
> Seriously? It’s been talking about several times in this thread. Maps in this game are designed around sprint. Not sprinting puts you at a disadvantage most of the time. Why would one purposely put themselves at a disadvantage by not doing something.
>
> The purpose of this thread is to discuss how removing sprint would make for a better game. Anti-sprinters aren’t asking for advice about how we can enjoy halo with sprint. We’re actually looking for intelligent arguments about how sprint makes the game better…Aside from a couple people I’ve debated with, there aren’t many arguments that support the pro-sprint mindset.
You’re losing sight of the point… Sprint doesn’t stop anti-sprinters from enjoying Halo like they’re saying, there were no cat and mouse games going on affecting the outcomes of any games that I was in, and sprint certainly didn’t stop them from playing Halo like they try to say it does. But if you were to take sprint out of Halo now then more people would stop playing Halo… The pace of combat in a Halo would drop backwards to Halo 3’s stagnant pace and it would be exponentially more boring.
Anti-sprinters are demanding justification to keep sprint, but in retrospect- I think the debate is really less about pro sprinters needing to justify “Why sprint needs to stay,” and more about anti sprinters not being able to explain “Why sprint should go.” (Other than it would favor their style of play when they chase people).
The Otis isn’t on people who like sprint to explain why at this point because sprint has been in the past three AAA Halo titles… And sprint has been accepted by most of us who play Halo and it’s become part of the game. Taking it out is removing a part of what Halo has become now and doing that would not help Halo. Taking out sprint would hurt Halo’s population (both the gaming population and viewers on Twitch), and sales would also suffer because restricting players to one BMS would make the game more boring and less playable.
> 2625759425619671;10038:
> > 2533274932051506;9971:
> > A BUNCH OF YOU ARE HYPOCRITES. You complain about sprint yet you use it still. Here’s an idea don’t sprint. Did i blow your mind. I know its crazy that no one has said this unless they have im sorry.
>
>
> Yup I’ve actually pointed this out… The anti sprinters just chose to avoid responding to it at the time. I’ve played with some of these avid anti-sprinters as well and not once did they ever even mentioned sprint… And they used it all the time, so for them to come here and try to over inflate this issue now isn’t justified from what I’ve seen from them on Halo 5.
I don’t care if you’re pro or anti sprint, but to use the argument if “you don’t like it, don’t use it is” in any debate just being willfully ignorant. Its like saying if you don’t like armor lock don’t use it or if you don’t like autos don’t use them etc. The issue is not with the actual mechanic(the actual act of running faster appeals to everyone I’m sure) itself, but rather the ripple effects the mechanic has on the rest of the game’s design and if those effects are detrimental to the game or not. That is what this discussion is about.
> 2533274825101441;10035:
> > 2533274819567236;10030:
> > > 2533274825101441;10028:
> > > > 2533274943854776;10026:
> > > > > 2533274825101441;10018:
> > > > > > 2535450703392903;10017:
> > > > > > > 2533274825101441;10013:
> > > > > > > > 2535450703392903;10007:
> > > > > > > > I wonder how many people here have played the new doom.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The movement in that game is the direction future Halo games should take. No sprint, but very fast movement speed. Mantling and a slight double jump that can change a player’s direction mid air.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > You could even add slide and ground pound to it.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The new Doom gets a bad reputation because certain affinity(H4 MP devs) butchered the MP just like they did with H4’s. The campaign though, is amazing. Especially the movement which really nails that immersive super solider feel much better than H5 does.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > H5’s movement feels really clunky in comparison to Doom because you have to slow to a crawl in order to shoot in H5 and that is the inherent issue with sprint in games with long kill times. Which is why high BMS is a much better fit for Halo than sprint is.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I played the New Doom and hated it. The base speed is ridiculous like everybody is running around on -Yoink!-. I will not play any MP game with base movement speed that fast.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > but you want sprint? Which is the same speed except you can’t shoot.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Exactly. I like that players have to slow down to shoot. It makes it a tradeoff. If they are sprinting and I am not, that gives me the advantage
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > This is what I had wanted to talk about. Are you saying that if someone sprints into a room that you’re in, you will habe the advantage? Like if Spartan charge wasn’t in the game. That is what you’re saying, correct?
> > >
> > >
> > > That is correct. IF I’m in say around a corner, dude sprints in I am going to be able to shoot first and vice versa. It makes it more of a thinking game. Again excluding spartan charge which has ruined this aspect for a lot of engagements.
> >
> >
> > Shouldn’t it be more of a shooting game that just puts an emphasis on thinking? Why is the opponent giving you an advantage based more on chance better than you gaining an advantage yourself based on your own actions in the fight?
>
>
> It all depends on what type of game you want. If they are sprinting into a room, knowing that it delays their reaction to shoot and they sprint in anyway, that is not chance. That is simply playing without thinking. So it punishes the thoughtless aggressive (typical teenager) while rewards the strategic thinking player. I don’t have the reflexes of a 18 year old. But I can outsmart an 18 year old often. So it can give me an advantage. I have stated many times and being honest about why I like sprint. I like the advantages as well as the immersion effect. Its just my preference. Its also why I don’t like COD:BO3 because it has a perk where you can run non stop and continue to shoot. Hence I don’t play it.
It’s not chance for the sprinter, they know what they’re doing. But your advantage is based on chance. You did nothing to gain that advantage, the enemy slipped up and gave it to you. You basically got lucky he was sprinting at the wrong place at the wrong time. Shouldn’t players have to earn advantages whenever possible? If you want the game to be based on skill (both mental and physical skill) then it should try put more emphasis on what the player does right rather than what others do wrong.
> 2535452250728209;10050:
> > 2625759425619671;10038:
> > > 2533274932051506;9971:
> > > A BUNCH OF YOU ARE HYPOCRITES. You complain about sprint yet you use it still. Here’s an idea don’t sprint. Did i blow your mind. I know its crazy that no one has said this unless they have im sorry.
> >
> >
> > Yup I’ve actually pointed this out… The anti sprinters just chose to avoid responding to it at the time. I’ve played with some of these avid anti-sprinters as well and not once did they ever even mentioned sprint… And they used it all the time, so for them to come here and try to over inflate this issue now isn’t justified from what I’ve seen from them on Halo 5.
>
>
> I don’t care if you’re pro or anti sprint, but to use the argument if “you don’t like it, don’t use it is” in any debate just being willfully ignorant.
I never said that. The point is that anti sprinters do use sprint and they use it all the time with no issues from what I’ve seen. It’s not that they shouldn’t use it if they don’t like it. I’ve played with anti sprinters in this thread and I never once heard any complaints about using sprint… I never saw any of the supposed negative affects from sprint they’re trying to complain about. They just used sprint normally and naturally with no significant impacts on their play in the game.
thx for renaming this because the original name made me sick
People in this thread have been discussing on the mechanical reason of why sprint should not be in Halo
> 2533274973685362;4:
> didn’t even bother reading it because it is the dumbest topic out there right now. Just because it has sprint doesn’t mean its not Halo. It’s one whole mechanic, that’s it. If you don’t like sprint, don’t sprint. Problem solved.
This makes no sense, the fact we don’t like sprint doesn’t mean it not part of the game doesn’t mean that if you don’t use sprint then it just won’t affect you. The maps are based around all of the spartan abilities, and its a disadvantage if you dont use it. Weapond are scaled properly for the quick style of gameplay for halo 5. If you don’t use sprint then you are gonna get killed.
I don’t understand how you could think this is solving a problem, because this gives no solution.
> 2533274973685362;4:
> didn’t even bother reading it because it is the dumbest topic out there right now. Just because it has sprint doesn’t mean its not Halo. It’s one whole mechanic, that’s it. If you don’t like sprint, don’t sprint. Problem solved.
> 2533274964954143;10053:
> thx for renaming this because the original name made me sick
Ditto- I also appreciate that very much @monitors because the original thread title was bias for anti sprinters and I wholly disagreed with it.
> 2625759425619671;10049:
> > 2533274802441922;10041:
> > > 2625759425619671;10038:
> > > > 2533274932051506;9971:
> > > > A BUNCH OF YOU ARE HYPOCRITES. You complain about sprint yet you use it still. Here’s an idea don’t sprint. Did i blow your mind. I know its crazy that no one has said this unless they have im sorry.
> > >
> > >
> > > Yup I’ve actually pointed this out… The anti sprinters just chose not to avoid responding to it at the time
> >
> >
> > Seriously? It’s been talking about several times in this thread. Maps in this game are designed around sprint. Not sprinting puts you at a disadvantage most of the time. Why would one purposely put themselves at a disadvantage by not doing something.
> >
> > The purpose of this thread is to discuss how removing sprint would make for a better game. Anti-sprinters aren’t asking for advice about how we can enjoy halo with sprint. We’re actually looking for intelligent arguments about how sprint makes the game better…Aside from a couple people I’ve debated with, there aren’t many arguments that support the pro-sprint mindset.
>
>
> You’re losing sight of the point… Sprint doesn’t stop anti-sprinters from enjoying Halo like they’re saying, there were no cat and mouse games going on affecting the outcomes of any games that I was in, and sprint certainly didn’t stop them from playing Halo like they try to say it does. But if you were to take sprint out of Halo now then more people would stop playing Halo… The pace of combat in a Halo would drop backwards to Halo 3’s stagnant pace and it would be exponentially more boring. Anti-sprinters are demanding justification to keep sprint, but in retrospect- I think the debate is really less about “Why sprint needs to stay,” and more about “Why sprint shouldn’t go.” The Otis isn’t on people who like sprint to explain why at this point because sprint has been in the past three AAA Halo titles… And sprint has been accepted by most of us who play Halo and it’s become part of the game. Taking it out is removing a part of what Halo has become now and doing that would not help Halo. Taking out sprint would hurt Halo’s population (both the gaming population and viewers on Twitch), and sales would also suffer because restricting players to one BMS would make the game more boring and less playable.
Interesting points. And I like your thoughts on Why sprint shouldn’t go. They make sense. I disagree with them, but I do like the discussion points.
I personally would not want to go back to Halo 3 BMS. I think Halo 2 or Halo CE would work fine. I’m also not opposed to other design ideas for speed (Like what weapons you’re carrying effects your movement). But we can’t continue with the way sprint is currently implemented. It affects map design far to much and the maps In Halo 4 and 5 are very unremarkable. Even some of the forge creations, while fun and excellently made, just don’t match up to the greatness of some of the old maps from the past games.
The main reason I want sprint just flat out removed is because it makes design that much easier and more resources can be devoted to other aspects of balance. If halo 6 does have sprint, then it needs to have a defined purpose and not be a requirement. You may not agree with sprinting being a requirement, but the map design implications of having sprint vs not having sprint are undeniable.
> 2533274816931642;9958:
> > 2535456661482998;9874:
> > > 2533274816931642;9719:
> > > > 2535456661482998;9661:
> > > > > 2533274865607515;6:
> > > > > > 2533274881560701;5:
> > > > > > > 2533274973685362;4:
> > > > > > > didn’t even bother reading it because it is the dumbest topic out there right now. Just because it has sprint doesn’t mean its not Halo. It’s one whole mechanic, that’s it. If you don’t like sprint, don’t sprint. Problem solved.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Except the maps are purposefully stretched out to accompany sprint, so that stretched maps will have the same sprint travel time as a non stretched map with just walking. So
> > > > > > not sprinting is punishing because the game had to be made around it.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Campaign maps aren’t. God I wish I could have had sprint on some old campaign misions(Looking at you Two Betrayals)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Jeez, id have given anything for sprint in two betrayals.
> > >
> > >
> > > Jumpin’ Jimminy Jones Jehoshaphat, do you honestly believe that the One would limit the developers as much as the original XBox did?
> >
> >
> > I never said anything about the Xbox one limiting capabilities, I was just highlighting my opinion on how I would of liked sprint in that mission.
>
>
> Levels wouldn’t need to be reused on current gen–or even last gen. Besides, the only time that I felt like I needed to move faster was when I was playing Legendary Solo, and reached the final big fight: I had to make a couple of trips for extra ammo. That is, until I figured out that you could get a Ghost through the broken door that led to the underground bridge. It takes a little bit of critical thinking, but it can be done. Boom, a vehicle for the entirety of Two Betrayals. Anyway, I liked the atmosphere of that mission, it really made you feel like you were alone. The long walk could even be seen as symbolic. Also, some of the best Warthog launches could be done on that map, there were so many grenades to collect.
>
> Can this bad argument die now?
Yes it can, I didn’t want to start it at all.
> 2533274802441922;10047:
> Awesome - in honor of this change can we get a AMA with the dev team on this topic?
You’d have to ask someone who can arrange that. I’m just a mere moderator.
> 2533274943854776;10048:
> Are you “The Monitor of The sprint discussion thread” or something? Because I feel like we have created a sub-community here on waypoint.
Well, if I wasn’t before, I guess I am now.
We did it boys! We did it! We made a post with over 10,000 comments!
> 2533274802441922;10056:
> > 2625759425619671;10049:
> > > 2533274802441922;10041:
> > > > 2625759425619671;10038:
> > > > > 2533274932051506;9971:
> > > > > A BUNCH OF YOU ARE HYPOCRITES. You complain about sprint yet you use it still. Here’s an idea don’t sprint. Did i blow your mind. I know its crazy that no one has said this unless they have im sorry.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Yup I’ve actually pointed this out… The anti sprinters just chose not to avoid responding to it at the time
> > >
> > >
> > > Seriously? It’s been talking about several times in this thread. Maps in this game are designed around sprint. Not sprinting puts you at a disadvantage most of the time. Why would one purposely put themselves at a disadvantage by not doing something.
> > >
> > > The purpose of this thread is to discuss how removing sprint would make for a better game. Anti-sprinters aren’t asking for advice about how we can enjoy halo with sprint. We’re actually looking for intelligent arguments about how sprint makes the game better…Aside from a couple people I’ve debated with, there aren’t many arguments that support the pro-sprint mindset.
> >
> >
> > You’re losing sight of the point… Sprint doesn’t stop anti-sprinters from enjoying Halo like they’re saying, there were no cat and mouse games going on affecting the outcomes of any games that I was in, and sprint certainly didn’t stop them from playing Halo like they try to say it does. But if you were to take sprint out of Halo now then more people would stop playing Halo… The pace of combat in a Halo would drop backwards to Halo 3’s stagnant pace and it would be exponentially more boring. Anti-sprinters are demanding justification to keep sprint, but in retrospect- I think the debate is really less about “Why sprint needs to stay,” and more about “Why sprint shouldn’t go.” The Otis isn’t on people who like sprint to explain why at this point because sprint has been in the past three AAA Halo titles… And sprint has been accepted by most of us who play Halo and it’s become part of the game. Taking it out is removing a part of what Halo has become now and doing that would not help Halo. Taking out sprint would hurt Halo’s population (both the gaming population and viewers on Twitch), and sales would also suffer because restricting players to one BMS would make the game more boring and less playable.
>
>
> Interesting points. And I like your thoughts on Why sprint shouldn’t go. They make sense. I disagree with them, but I do like the discussion points.
>
> I personally would not want to go back to Halo 3 BMS. I think Halo 2 or Halo CE would work fine. I’m also not opposed to other design ideas for speed (Like what weapons you’re carrying effects your movement). But we can’t continue with the way sprint is currently implemented. It affects map design far to much and the maps In Halo 4 and 5 are very unremarkable. Even some of the forge creations, while fun and excellently made, just don’t match up to the greatness of some of the old maps from the past games.
>
> The main reason I want sprint just flat out removed is because it makes design that much easier and more resources can be devoted to other aspects of balance. If halo 6 does have sprint, then it needs to have a defined purpose and not be a requirement. You may not agree with sprinting being a requirement, but the map design implications of having sprint vs not having sprint are undeniable.
Well I’ll admit that I wasn’t clear in expressing those points to you in the first reply so your response was understandable… I wouldn’t have had to toss a couple more paragraphs in to explain if I had been clear the first time- it’s admittedly slightly frustrating for me because I’ve made these points before in this thread and they got ignored for whatever reason but… shrugs guess that’s just how forums work sometimes anyways.
Regarding your point on going back to BMS like in CE or 2 - I’ve also suggested in the past that there should be at least a couple playlists in the next Halo game that play just like that… Not only would that provide anti sprinters with an immediate solution and satisfy those who want to keep sprint, but it would give 343i a chance to analyze which playlists are getting higher populations… But the closest reply I got from anti sprinters on this was from OG Nick who wrote it off with a, “Middle grounds satisfy no one.”
But to your point, this would actually fit what you say you want to see in Halo 6… Players would get sprint for larger maps to move across expansive distances faster and undoubtedly smaller, more competitive style maps would be the ones in the playlists without sprint.
I haven’t been a part of discussion here, but I think that I might as well throw in my two cents, given the thread’s recent milestone.
I don’t have much of a problem with Sprint in H5, but it’s a little too useful, especially with Spartan Charge. I feel that Spartan Charge should go, and Sprint should be a utility, rather than standard movement around a map. Perhaps put a limit on how long you can sprint for, make the sprinter more visible to hostiles’ radar, or mark them to the enemy team.
If H6 kept the sprint mechanic, but made it a utility, rather than a mechanic that was necessary for map navigation, I’d be fine with it.
> 2625759425619671;10055:
> > 2533274964954143;10053:
> > thx for renaming this because the original name made me sick
>
>
> Ditto- I also appreciate that very much @monitors because the original thread title was bias for anti sprinters and I wholly disagreed with it.
To be honest, I was kind of annoyed by that, too, because after we started redirecting all discussion here it kind of bugged to have a nonneutral name for the thread. This change should’ve come sooner. It’s just that I got this silly idea of saving the officialization for when the thread reaches 10,000 posts back when it was still moving really fast. Then the discussion kind of hit a wall but it was so close that I didn’t want to ruin it. So, my bad. I could’ve done this a month ago.