> 2533274797771187;9436:
> What I feel sprint does (from a design point of view) is allow movement to be broken down into two modes.
> 1. Travelling
> 2. Fighting
> Movement speed while fighting can be tailored to what makes that experience feel controlled and/or fun (depending on your take on gameplay). It doesn’t have to accommodate (fully) the basic need to allow players to get from point A to B in a time that’s appropriate to intended pacing. That is separated behind a toggle command.
> The benefit isn’t so much that sprint makes you fast (and can therefore access parts of the map more quickly), it’s that it separates elements of gameplay so that each can be more specifically tailored to work better for their own purpose. Then there’s the secondary interactions that come from knowing when to use each mode, which adds a small, definable facet to gameplay (which you can more consciously work with compared to unimodal movement.)
> Overall movement speed, in my view, is a separate discussion (more to do with overall pacing, and that can certainly stand to be changed). The sprint function is a control utility and one that I think games benefit from (when the specific settings don’t interfere with balance, mechanics, and pacing, such as I think can be definitely said for Halo Reach.)
Hmm… this is a problem. Because, quite frankly, this is precisely what I hate about sprint: The fact that I need to choose wheter I’m in “movement mode” or in “combat mode” instead of having both available simultaneously.
But if sprint is only meant to be used outside of combat, then what harm is there in adding the ability to shoot? If you sprint when nobody’s around, then there shouldn’t be any change. On the other hand, having at least the ability to shoot (even at an increased spread) would be a godsend in the countless times when somebody tries to sprint away and you need to choose whether to pursue him or keep shooting at the risk of him escaping.
On a side note: Shoutout to your Gamertag. Just read Dune a month ago.
> 2533274801176260;9443:
> > 2533274797771187;9436:
> >
>
>
> Hmm… this is a problem. Because, quite frankly, this is precisely what I hate about sprint: The fact that I need to choose wheter I’m in “movement mode” or in “combat mode” instead of having both available simultaneously.
>
> But if sprint is only meant to be used outside of combat, then what harm is there in adding the ability to shoot? If you sprint when nobody’s around, then there shouldn’t be any change. On the other hand, having at least the ability to shoot (even at an increased spread) would be a godsend in the countless times when somebody tries to sprint away and you need to choose whether to pursue him or keep shooting at the risk of him escaping.
>
> On a side note: Shoutout to your Gamertag. Just read Dune a month ago.
First of all, thanks for the shout out. I hope you make it at least to God Emporer of Dune.
And now back to the topic. They’re both available with sprint but you do need to make an extra conscious decision. It’s not a seamless transition, but at the same time that also means that (with sprint) you don’t necessarily need to proceed through a full combat-ideal acceleration curve to make the decision between “modes.” There can be (with sprint) faster response times once you’re playstyle has incorporated sprint use fully.
As for shooting while sprinting, that’s just part of extra trade-offs to distinguish and balance the modes (like shield regen.) I think those can be scaled as necessary (ie. shooting while running isn’t necessarily wrong, provided that there’s still some trade-off significant enough to promote strategic thinking.)
> 2533274797771187;9432:
> More gameplay depth (CE combat was vague and often oversimplified itself), better pacing, better weapon mechanics, better weapon balance, better movement mechanics (more options, stronger feel, more precise control), better tactical options (a factor of map design, weapon design, and movement mechanics), better vehicle mechanics, better use of environments (in terms of both art and map design), richer characters, more plot, a less static plot, better dialog writing, better AI (it’s much more capable now and less easy to exploit), monumentally less repetitive, an art style that hasn’t largely been ripped from Forbidden Planet (original Forerunner) and Aliens (original UNSC), and online four player co-op.
>
> Of course that’s all “because you asked” (and doesn’t need bearing out into a full tangent in a sprint thread, it’s just a text block to illustrate a point) but there’s really no getting around the fact that there’s been conceptual, technological, and stylistic evolution (ie. heritable change over time) of not just Halo but the entire genre over the last 15 years which you can very easily call “progress.” It’s not utopian progress, it hasn’t reached any conclusion, and it doesn’t accommodate all tastes, but it’s still progress.
>
> Regardless of what your preferences may be, using “because that’s how CE did it” is a tautological argument which doesn’t actually justify any given proposal. Those need to stand up on their own merits (which I don’t feel removing sprint does. From everything I’ve seen, it would be a distinct retrogression.)
I’m gonna go through the list.
More gameplay depth: Yeah, but I was talking about actual depth. Depth is everything that affects the gameplay, actual depth is depth with a skill gap. Like in CE every weapon was hard to use, nading weapons was hard, nading power ups was hard, double melees were hard, landing a melee was hard, trapping people to spawn trap their tram was hard, not spawn trapping your own teammate was hard, giving a random was hard, forced spawns were hard to use, understanding momentum based damage was hard, nade jumps, rocket jumps, I bet you can’t come up with anything that was easy in CEs PvP. And those were just off the top of my head. Realistically I could write a book in why CE is a competitive master piece. In H5 what is it that takes skill. These spartan abilities are all easy mode, you just press a button and it happens(GP, charge, clamber, thrust, slide, the onlyone that takes skill is stabilizer). The precision weapons have unlimited range and very high magnetism. We get to spawn with a weapon like the Ar that will kill a player in 2 seconds at 70 meters. Radar, stormrifles, they don’t take skill.
Better pacing: Could you clarify? I think the pacing in H5 is super random.
Better weapon mechanics/balance: No. The weapons are balanced well for casual play, but not for competitive. They are way too easy to use. Which means that they are not optimised for competitive play. The weapons in CE were. Look at the plasma pistol. It could be used as a shotgun(charge up), plasma rifle(stun) and it could quick camo. But to use it like a shotgun, Ar or plasma rifle, you had to had the skills and knowladge to do so. The same was true for everyweapon exept the rocket launcher.
Better movement mechanics: But in H5 they’re easy! In CE things like nade jumps, jump delay and a thousand other things took skill.
Better tactical options: If it doesn’t add actual depth, then it doesn’t add tacticality or anything to the gameplay. If doesn’t take skill, then it doesn’t add actual depth. The weapons take less skill, movement takes less skill and the maps take less skill in that they’re random. A place like Top snipe on Coliseum can be entered from 14 different places. That is why there is no flow prediction on that map. And all the power positions are super weak in this game which along side sprint makes flow prediction impossible.
Better vehicle mechanics: I think they both suck equally.
Better use of environments: Could you clarify?
Richer characters: The characters suck equally. Like are there any good characters in H5?
More plot: What does that mean?
A less static plot: What does that mean?
Better dialog: Maybe true. I think they both suck equally.
Better AI: Like what does the AI do in H5? In CE it flanked, the grunts would run away if you killed the elite in their squad. They would get skared. They would flush you out if cover with nades. And it would dodge if you tried to run them over. The hunters and flood were ment to be stupid and no Halo game has ever had smart, friendly AI.
Monumentallyless repetitive: Repetitive? CE? But… I don’t… Whaaaaat? Let’s take a look at my favourite mission from my favourite game: Assault On The Control Room. The mission starts with a stealth sequence. You try to kill the patrolling elites and the sleeping elites. Then you go outside and there is a warthog. You can fight the enemy from a warthog or a ghost or with rockets or a sniper. Then you find a tank and you could fight the enemies with that or just dodge their attacks with the speed of a ghost or a warthog. You get to this bridge and you can jack a banshee. At the end you have a boss fight with the golden elite. Then there were all the glitches and speed-running tricks that I don’t have the energy to list. But this replay value was true for every mission that wasn’t one of those Library- style missions.
And about art style: I felt like H5 stole it’s art style from legos.When we think about evolution, we think about things like sprint, right? But we have no split screen. Is that an evolution. Because just like sprint it takes away from the games depth.
Thank you for your time.
> 2533274847473633;9441:
> > 2535443801525098;9440:
> > > 2533274817677471;9:
> > > People are always reluctant when it comes to change. People either like sprint or don’t. It’s here and you either accept it and learn to adapt or you don’t. Figure it out.
> > >
> > > It has its place in the game, it can be rather gratifying when you do a sprint/boost/slide/jump and blast your opponent with the shotty.
> > >
> > > Also, in CTF, if you time your sprint/flag grab/boost/throw you can really move the flag in a hurry.
> > >
> > > There are plenty more examples of utilizing the feature. Like I said it has it’s place in the game. The real key is balance and understanding the differences when to use it and when not to use it.
> >
> >
> > This guy, he gets it.
>
>
> Agree with this 1000%
This is one of the best posts I’ve seen in this massive thread.
> 2533274943854776;9445:
> More gameplay depth: Yeah, but I was talking about actual depth. Depth is everything that affects the gameplay, actual depth is depth with a skill gap.
Can I just mention something that has really bugged me since you last brought this up. Is there some reason we can’t call what you call “actual depth” just depth, and what you call “depth” just complexity? Is there a level of abstraction I’m missing here where your depth differs in some meaningful way from what would generally be called complexity, or is this just odd choice of terminology?
Idk about you guys, but I like to actually feel like a Spartan when I play Halo so being able to sprint is expected, as I think most super soldiers would be able to sprint lol
> 2533274796148200;9449:
> Idk about you guys, but I like to actually feel like a Spartan when I play Halo so being able to sprint is expected, as I think most super soldiers would be able to sprint lol
Now that I’ve had a chance to play both Halo 4 (Campaign/MP) and Halo 5 (only MP), I can say with certainty that, although Sprint does not feel quite “right” being in Halo, it is undeniably useful in certain situations. So I don’t either love or hate it. I just take advantage of it when applicable. However, the addition of Sprint to H4 and 5 does not make me feel “slow” in HCE-3.
> 2533274825830455;9447:
> > 2533274943854776;9445:
> > More gameplay depth: Yeah, but I was talking about actual depth. Depth is everything that affects the gameplay, actual depth is depth with a skill gap.
>
>
> Can I just mention something that has really bugged me since you last brought this up. Is there some reason we can’t call what you call “actual depth” just depth, and what you call “depth” just complexity? Is there a level of abstraction I’m missing here where your depth differs in some meaningful way from what would generally be called complexity, or is this just odd choice of terminology?
It’s because it’s called “real depth” and “fake depth” in that Youtube video, and he wants to stay consistent. For better or for worse.
> 2533274801176260;9452:
> > 2533274825830455;9447:
> > > 2533274943854776;9445:
> > > More gameplay depth: Yeah, but I was talking about actual depth. Depth is everything that affects the gameplay, actual depth is depth with a skill gap.
> >
> >
> > Can I just mention something that has really bugged me since you last brought this up. Is there some reason we can’t call what you call “actual depth” just depth, and what you call “depth” just complexity? Is there a level of abstraction I’m missing here where your depth differs in some meaningful way from what would generally be called complexity, or is this just odd choice of terminology?
>
>
> It’s because it’s called “real depth” and “fake depth” in that Youtube video, and he wants to stay consistent. For better or for worse.
I know it’s that way in the video. I was kind of hoping there had been some other reason because it seems really silly to me that way. But then again, I’m no authority on language.
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> > > 2535443801525098;9440:
> > > > 2533274817677471;9:
> > > > People are always reluctant when it comes to change. People either like sprint or don’t. It’s here and you either accept it and learn to adapt or you don’t. Figure it out.
> > > >
> > > > It has its place in the game, it can be rather gratifying when you do a sprint/boost/slide/jump and blast your opponent with the shotty.
> > > >
> > > > Also, in CTF, if you time your sprint/flag grab/boost/throw you can really move the flag in a hurry.
> > > >
> > > > There are plenty more examples of utilizing the feature. Like I said it has it’s place in the game. The real key is balance and understanding the differences when to use it and when not to use it.
> > >
> > >
> > > This guy, he gets it.
> >
> >
> > Agree with this 1000%
>
>
> This is one of the best posts I’ve seen in this massive thread.
> 2535443801525098;9440:
> > 2533274817677471;9:
> > People are always reluctant when it comes to change. People either like sprint or don’t. It’s here and you either accept it and learn to adapt or you don’t. Figure it out.
> >
> > It has its place in the game, it can be rather gratifying when you do a sprint/boost/slide/jump and blast your opponent with the shotty.
> >
> > Also, in CTF, if you time your sprint/flag grab/boost/throw you can really move the flag in a hurry.
> >
> > There are plenty more examples of utilizing the feature. Like I said it has it’s place in the game. The real key is balance and understanding the differences when to use it and when not to use it.
>
>
> This guy, he gets it.
I get all that too, I had a wicked capture on Husky Raid the other day that started with me sliding under an Incineration Cannon shot, and dropping my opponent with a Shotgun.
It’s not like I’m objecting to sprint because I don’t understand how to use it.
> 2533274797771187;9444:
> > 2533274801176260;9443:
> > > 2533274797771187;9436:
> > >
> >
> >
> > Hmm… this is a problem. Because, quite frankly, this is precisely what I hate about sprint: The fact that I need to choose wheter I’m in “movement mode” or in “combat mode” instead of having both available simultaneously.
> >
> > But if sprint is only meant to be used outside of combat, then what harm is there in adding the ability to shoot? If you sprint when nobody’s around, then there shouldn’t be any change. On the other hand, having at least the ability to shoot (even at an increased spread) would be a godsend in the countless times when somebody tries to sprint away and you need to choose whether to pursue him or keep shooting at the risk of him escaping.
> >
> > On a side note: Shoutout to your Gamertag. Just read Dune a month ago.
>
>
> First of all, thanks for the shout out. I hope you make it at least to God Emporer of Dune.
>
> And now back to the topic. They’re both available with sprint but you do need to make an extra conscious decision. It’s not a seamless transition, but at the same time that also means that (with sprint) you don’t necessarily need to proceed through a full combat-ideal acceleration curve to make the decision between “modes.” There can be (with sprint) faster response times once you’re playstyle has incorporated sprint use fully.
>
> As for shooting while sprinting, that’s just part of extra trade-offs to distinguish and balance the modes (like shield regen.) I think those can be scaled as necessary (ie. shooting while running isn’t necessarily wrong, provided that there’s still some trade-off significant enough to promote strategic thinking.)
Keeping you from shooting while sprinting in order to “balance” it would suggest there’s a reason you shouldn’t be allowed to do so, that it would be potentially unfair to players in various situations. That’s not the case - not if it were applied to Halo anyway - especially considering how much you’re limited while in sprint otherwise (no shield regen and forced to look in the direction you’re going). What reason is there for that trade-off?
Just so I can understand where you’re coming from, can you list out some of the things you think sprint accomplishes? Whether it be pacing, strategy, just feeling like you’re going faster or whatever it may be. I know you’ve made a few posts already, but honestly, I couldn’t follow what you were saying most of the time. Just trying to clear things up for my own sake.
> 2533274973979999;9446:
> > 2533274847473633;9441:
> > > 2535443801525098;9440:
> > > > 2533274817677471;9:
> > > > People are always reluctant when it comes to change. People either like sprint or don’t. It’s here and you either accept it and learn to adapt or you don’t. Figure it out.
> > > >
> > > > It has its place in the game, it can be rather gratifying when you do a sprint/boost/slide/jump and blast your opponent with the shotty.
> > > >
> > > > Also, in CTF, if you time your sprint/flag grab/boost/throw you can really move the flag in a hurry.
> > > >
> > > > There are plenty more examples of utilizing the feature. Like I said it has it’s place in the game. The real key is balance and understanding the differences when to use it and when not to use it.
> > >
> > >
> > > This guy, he gets it.
> >
> >
> > Agree with this 1000%
>
>
> This is one of the best posts I’ve seen in this massive thread.
Why, because it taught you something? I’ll dig up two other posts at some point that are much better, IMO.
> 2533274847473633;9454:
> > 2533274973979999;9446:
> > > 2533274847473633;9441:
> > > > 2535443801525098;9440:
> > > > > 2533274817677471;9:
> > > > > People are always reluctant when it comes to change. People either like sprint or don’t. It’s here and you either accept it and learn to adapt or you don’t. Figure it out.
> > > > >
> > > > > It has its place in the game, it can be rather gratifying when you do a sprint/boost/slide/jump and blast your opponent with the shotty.
> > > > >
> > > > > Also, in CTF, if you time your sprint/flag grab/boost/throw you can really move the flag in a hurry.
> > > > >
> > > > > There are plenty more examples of utilizing the feature. Like I said it has it’s place in the game. The real key is balance and understanding the differences when to use it and when not to use it.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > This guy, he gets it.
> > >
> > >
> > > Agree with this 1000%
> >
> >
> > This is one of the best posts I’ve seen in this massive thread.
>
>
> Non of the anti-sprinters will respond to it.
> 2533274847473633;9454:
> > 2533274973979999;9446:
> > > 2533274847473633;9441:
> > > > 2535443801525098;9440:
> > > > > 2533274817677471;9:
> > > > > People are always reluctant when it comes to change. People either like sprint or don’t. It’s here and you either accept it and learn to adapt or you don’t. Figure it out.
> > > > >
> > > > > It has its place in the game, it can be rather gratifying when you do a sprint/boost/slide/jump and blast your opponent with the shotty.
> > > > >
> > > > > Also, in CTF, if you time your sprint/flag grab/boost/throw you can really move the flag in a hurry.
> > > > >
> > > > > There are plenty more examples of utilizing the feature. Like I said it has it’s place in the game. The real key is balance and understanding the differences when to use it and when not to use it.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > This guy, he gets it.
> > >
> > >
> > > Agree with this 1000%
> >
> >
> > This is one of the best posts I’ve seen in this massive thread.
>
>
> Non of the anti-sprinters will respond to it.
What’s there to respond to? He listed things that are doable without sprint and acted like they were dependant on it. The only difference is just that sprint is there, he didn’t say why that’s better than the no sprint alternative. Wanna explain for him or are you afraid your ignorance would show if you participated in the discussion?
> 2533274847473633;9454:
> > 2533274973979999;9446:
> > > 2533274847473633;9441:
> > > > 2535443801525098;9440:
> > > > > 2533274817677471;9:
> > > > > People are always reluctant when it comes to change. People either like sprint or don’t. It’s here and you either accept it and learn to adapt or you don’t. Figure it out.
> > > > >
> > > > > It has its place in the game, it can be rather gratifying when you do a sprint/boost/slide/jump and blast your opponent with the shotty.
> > > > >
> > > > > Also, in CTF, if you time your sprint/flag grab/boost/throw you can really move the flag in a hurry.
> > > > >
> > > > > There are plenty more examples of utilizing the feature. Like I said it has it’s place in the game. The real key is balance and understanding the differences when to use it and when not to use it.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > This guy, he gets it.
> > >
> > >
> > > Agree with this 1000%
> >
> >
> > This is one of the best posts I’ve seen in this massive thread.
>
>
> Non of the anti-sprinters will respond to it.
How far back was this post - but hey I’ll give it a whirl
> 2533274817677471;9:
> People are always reluctant when it comes to change. People either like sprint or don’t. It’s here and you either accept it and learn to adapt or you don’t. Figure it out.
> It has its place in the game, it can be rather gratifying when you do a sprint/boost/slide/jump and blast your opponent with the shotty.
> Also, in CTF, if you time your sprint/flag grab/boost/throw you can really move the flag in a hurry.
> There are plenty more examples of utilizing the feature. Like I said it has it’s place in the game. The real key is balance and understanding the differences when to use it and when not to use it.
I will agree with your statement that the real key is balance and understanding the differences when to use it and when not to. The problem with the way sprint is implemented in Halo 5 is that there is really no balance. There is a fundemental benefit to sprinting as much as possible because all maps are designed that way. 1 to 1 remake of maps from older games play horribly. Scaled maps play the same way as the did in the older game…assuming to sprint as much as possible
IF the balance between sprint and no sprint we’re there, I don’t think the discussion would go that deep. Anti-sprinters aren’t anti-change and we’re not saying evolution in the game is bad. Our argument is that sprint fundamentally makes the map design harder and the SAME goals for faster gameplay, more dynamic combat, more intense battles can be achieved without sprint included.
I think most people in this post, both pro and anti sprinters, want a better halo 6. If you love Halo 5, that’s great - would you want Halo 6 to be a Halo 5 Clone or would you want it to be a better game? That’s the purpose of this post. Discussing how the removal of a mechanic can lead to a better game.
There is no problem with limited sprinting. The problem is the unlimited sprinting especially on small maps mixed with low TTK. A less skilled player with a better internet maybe quicker reflex will take you down. If you bump in two enemy you are dead. In Halo 2/3/4/Reach you bump in two players they start shooting you with an AR(if you lucky) you throw a granade in between of the two and bang bang two headshot with a dmr or br and they dead double kill!
One is the cod style crap the other is the old school Halo style!
Now why the hell on earth the devs did not care about this while they were advertising the new Halo will be a big
return for the traditional Halo. Where is the tradition? Where is the traditional Halo gameplay?
Let me bet, the decision makers were on holiday or of sick, and they let some 21years old mlg player to define the new rules? Wondering who was testing the single player and told them “yeah it’s perfect” I love to hear when unbeatable Sierra 117 says “I am down… Need help!” Or when the promethean soldiers shooting at you but never retreating or finding a cover! AI is excellent. Better than Halo 1 where AI was hiding and everything! Knock knock!
