The sprint discussion thread

Games Halo 5: Guardians
9383

“Nothing about the fad mechanics from H5G is new. Copypasting is not progressive growth. The fanbase is pushing away the homogenization of genres, not natural evolution. Gears and Forza have remained flagships because nobody tried mutating them into something they aren’t. As soon as 343 stops doing this, Halo can once again join those two on the podium.”

It’s so true!!! I got goosebumps! The pain is only a simple title update would help, they dont even have to relase a new game.
What changes needed?

-keep sprint but made it limited
-enlarge the radar distance
-make shield higher so lower TTK
-lover accuracy of weapons which were not precision weapons.
-add back skill jump and remove ledger.
-put back some abbilities like promethean vision, which I love in H4.
-remove slider and ground pound and that idiotic floating the air if you zooming.
-remove the zooming on weapons which never had zooms and give us back the traditional hud zooming where you can se far better in the distance.
-while sprinting some weapons look awkward(magnum dlr)why you are holding them, thanks the “realism” well chuck that out and give back the old reach/h4 look.
Please some devs should listen this these are clearly based on an oldie Halo gamer preference, I do not say sprinting is bad I think it just need to be tweaked.
Yeah these changes probably would freak out some H5fan, but how many older Halo fan would return? I bet there would be more player. Better mp experience.
Obliviously most of the new features all copy and pasted elements. Groundpound is from Crysis for instance. Thats a crap game mp wise how the hell they can monkey a game like that?

9384

> 2533274801176260;9382:
> > 2533274795123910;9380:
> > What if we were to look at matches played from Halo 2’s Midship, Halo 3’s Heretic (or whatever it’s called) and Halo 5’s Truth? Relatively the same skill range from game to game and the same game mode?
> >
> > From what I recall when I checked times in general up, my Halo 3 matches were somewhat longer than their Halo 4 counter parts.
> >
> > Because as much as math can explain, I don’t think math is a good explainer of exactly that.
>
>
> I don’t see what effect skill has on this outcome. Skill only comes into play once two players encounter each other on the battlefield.
>
>
>
>
>
> > 2533274825830455;9381:
> >

I’d argue that skill isn’t only in encounters, but also how you navigate the map according to your knowledge of it. Meaning less skilled players who aren’t as familiar with the maps, their shortcuts, advantageous positions and so fourth could take other routes that take longer time before an an encounter.

Sure, I could be wrong and it evens out in the end between top players and mid tier players. We haven’t looked at the data yet.

I don’t remember what I compared, and even with snowball effects, depending on their rarity they influence the average play time on a map differently.

If you want to look at downtime between encounters, you’d need to look at quite a few videos of players playing, timing the time of the downtimes, with a set of agreed criteria between parties so that it isn’t biased.
-What is an encounter
-How long does an encounter last
-Is it the same encounter if another players join in just when you’ve had an encounter and your shields have just recharged?
-Etc.

Also, we’re covering distances, not areas. The length of the wall is scaled according to the length / width the map has been scaled, no? So it wouldn’t be 2,9,times longer, it’d be 1,7 time longer.

9385

> 2533274798218821;9383:
> “Nothing about the fad mechanics from H5G is new. Copypasting is not progressive growth. The fanbase is pushing away the homogenization of genres, not natural evolution. Gears and Forza have remained flagships because nobody tried mutating them into something they aren’t. As soon as 343 stops doing this, Halo can once again join those two on the podium.”
>
> It’s so true!!! I got goosebumps! The pain is only a simple title update would help, they dont even have to relase a new game.
> What changes needed?
>
> -keep sprint but made it limited
> -enlarge the radar distance
> -make shield higher so lower TTK
> -lover accuracy of weapons which were not precision weapons.
> -add back skill jump and remove ledger.
> -put back some abbilities like promethean vision, which I love in H4.
> -remove slider and ground pound and that idiotic floating the air if you zooming.
> -remove the zooming on weapons which never had zooms and give us back the traditional hud zooming where you can se far better in the distance.
> -while sprinting some weapons look awkward(magnum dlr)why you are holding them, thanks the “realism” well chuck that out and give back the old reach/h4 look.
> Please some devs should listen this these are clearly based on an oldie Halo gamer preference, I do not say sprinting is bad I think it just need to be tweaked.
> Yeah these changes probably would freak out some H5fan, but how many older Halo fan would return? I bet there would be more player. Better mp experience.
> Obliviously most of the new features all copy and pasted elements. Groundpound is from Crysis for instance. Thats a crap game mp wise how the hell they can monkey a game like that?

I agree with making the radar bigger, perhaps 25 m, making the shields higher i agree with (for example H5 its hard to get reversals when youve been shot in the back first, and yes you could make the arguement that you should be aware of where people are spawning, true). What do you mean by skill jumps? If you mean Jumping then using Crouch to reach higher places then thats still in H5 (even tho clamber is widely used and in some situations is necessary).

Right now im liking Halo 5, its probably the most ive played Halo.

It would be nice to see a playlists that 343 could tweak and implement these changes to see how they go.

9386

> 2533274798218821;9383:
> -keep sprint but made it limited

No. That still doesn’t fix any of the issues. It just puts us back where Reach and 4 were. Remove it altogether or add shooting during sprint.

> 2533274798218821;9383:
> -enlarge the radar distance

Agreed.

> 2533274798218821;9383:
> -make shield higher so lower TTK

Reducing bullet magenism and autoaim is enough. A low perfect TTK is fine (see Halo CE), but the average TTK must be increased.

> 2533274798218821;9383:
> -lover accuracy of weapons which were not precision weapons.

Agreed.

> 2533274798218821;9383:
> -add back skill jump and remove ledger.

In theory, clamber could work fine with skill jumps, but that would require some fancy level design, and I’m not 100% sure how to achieve this.

> 2533274798218821;9383:
> -put back some abbilities like promethean vision, which I love in H4.

Dear god, no! No more wallhack…

> 2533274798218821;9383:
> -remove slider and ground pound and that idiotic floating the air if you zooming.

I don’t see much harm done with these mechanics either, Ground Pound is very situational, much like slide, and stabilize arguably adds to the gameplay, by potentially extending skill jumps. But if they were to be removed, I wouldn’t cry for them (Argentina).

> 2533274798218821;9383:
> -remove the zooming on weapons which never had zooms and give us back the traditional hud zooming where you can se far better in the distance.

Somewhat agreed. ADS can stay on unscoped weapons for all I care.
Scoped weapons need to either return to a traditional zoom or make it less inversive, much like the Light Rifle does.

> 2533274798218821;9383:
> -while sprinting some weapons look awkward(magnum dlr)why you are holding them, thanks the “realism” well chuck that out and give back the old reach/h4 look.

See bullet point #1. If sprint is gone or shooting is added to it, no ridiculous animations are needed anymore.

9387

> 2533274795123910;9384:
> I’d argue that skill isn’t only in encounters, but also how you navigate the map according to your knowledge of it. Meaning less skilled players who aren’t as familiar with the maps, their shortcuts, advantageous positions and so fourth could take other routes that take longer time before an an encounter.
>
> Sure, I could be wrong and it evens out in the end between top players and mid tier players. We haven’t looked at the data yet.
>
> I don’t remember what I compared, and even with snowball effects, depending on their rarity they influence the average play time on a map differently.
>
> If you want to look at downtime between encounters, you’d need to look at quite a few videos of players playing, timing the time of the downtimes, with a set of agreed criteria between parties so that it isn’t biased.
> -What is an encounter
> -How long does an encounter last
> -Is it the same encounter if another players join in just when you’ve had an encounter and your shields have just recharged?
> -Etc.
>
> Also, we’re covering distances, not areas. The length of the wall is scaled according to the length / width the map has been scaled, no? So it wouldn’t be 2,9,times longer, it’d be 1,7 time longer.

I see your point and there is some merit to it, concerning tactical positioning and shortcuts. You also seem to be right about the walls, mea culpa.

Although in general, I still don’t see how my reasoning is wrong. The math checks out, and while there might be some second-order corrections regarding power positions and hardpoints, that players flock towards, the calculations so far agreed with dozens and dozens of matches that I compared over Halo 3, Reach and Halo 4. (However, I admit that I only have some data from H5G as I hardly played that game, and none from Halo 2, since the servers were already shut down.) The overall downtime from Halo 3 to Reach and 4 increased roughly by a factor of 2, from 5-10 seconds to 15-20 seconds.
At least for me it did.

I defined encounters from the time that either I, myself, spotted an enemy or an unseen enemy engaged me up until the moment either of us was dead or has successfully fled and shaken off his enemy. Basically I counted “downtime” as all the time that I was either alone or only with teammates, with no enemies close by. Shield recharge didn’t come into play, if another enemy arrived just after an engagement, I counted it as a seperate encounter.

9388

> 2533274801176260;9382:
> Your counterpoints seem very vague. What would be a better relation between areas and times at a given speed?

I don’t know, because I don’t even know what would be an adequate relation. But consider the problem you are posing: there is a number of players running around the map, and at each moment there’s a probability for each player that they run into another player, which approaches one as time goes to infinity, and is reset back to zero every time the player encounters another player; determine the expected value of time between encounters as a function of map area. Now, I don’t know about you, but I don’t know how I’d go about attacking this problem. In fact, to me it doesn’t even seem clear that the porblem is well defined, considering how map geometry enters the picture.

Just one example: consider a narrow rectangular map with players spawning at each end. The map has some area and there’s some average time between encounters which depends on the spawn rate of players and how much they take to kill each other. Now take the width to infinity without changing anything else. The average time between encounters remains the same, but the area of the map is infinite. This isn’t to suggest that my example would be in any way realistic, but to show that the mathematical problem of determining the average encounter time as a function of area isn’t well defined without explicitly dealing also with map geometry.

The process itself that we are dealing with is quite a complex one. I fail to see a simple mathematical argument why the average time between encounters should be directly proportional to the area of the map.

> 2533274801176260;9382:
> How can a player cover 2.9 times more level with only a 1.7 speed boost?

Ignore that. I stupidly thought of the area of a circle, the radius of which is given by how far the player gets in a given time. Don’t know what I was thinking anymore.

> 2533274801176260;9382:
> Why can’t I conclude that time between encounters has increased?

Because you haphazardly assumed that the time between encounters is directly proportional to the area of the map, and the speed of the players. I don’t see a justification for either of these assumptions.

Moreover, if we’re speaking of the game as a whole, and not just a map versus its spiritual successor, then it should be clear that with different map geometries you get completely different results, even if you retain the same area (consider a completely square map versus the same map with thin walls placed to form a labyrinth). So, even if you found a reasonable argument for why encounter times should be increased between two maps with the same geometry, the possibility still remains that the maps have been designed in a way to make encounters more frequent.

9389

> 2533274825830455;9388:
> Because you haphazardly assumed that the time between encounters is directly proportional to the area of the map, and the speed of the players. I don’t see a justification for either of these assumptions.

It’s an analogy to kinetic gas theory. You have a set of particles, which can move in three dimensions and collide based on their temperature (aka energy), the number of particles and the volume that the gas occupies. The mean free path is given as L = const1T/p, where T/p can be expressed according to the Ideal Gas Law by some other constant multiplied by the volume, divided by the number of particles: T/p=const2V/N.
So overall, the mean free path is L=const3V/N=const3hA/N.
In our case, our “particles” (players) move only in two dimensions instead of three, so the height h is constant as well.
The time between two “collisions” (encounters) can be expressed as the mean free path divided by the speed. t = L/v.
Therefore the average time between two collisions is proportional to the area A and inverse proportional to the speed v and the number of particles (players) N.
t ∝ A/(vN)

The dependencies all make sense:

  • The more players, the faster you see somebody.
  • The higher the speed, the faster you see somebody.
  • The larger the volume/area/map, the longer it takes for you to see somebody.
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> > > > > > > > When did you start playing Halo? Halo originally had no sprint, adding it was the change. Im not affraid of the change cause ive been through it. And the reason super soldier are putting their guns down is because that allows them to run faster. You dont see Usan Bolt having his arms in a gun position.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I’ve played since CE, thank you very much.
> > > > > > > So just because it already was like this in previous games makes it not a change? So removing dual wielding wasn’t a change either? Removing loadouts? Removing bloom?
> > > > > > > As for the “run faster” thing, I have spent the last 50 pages or so disproving this statement. You can run equally as fast with your gun up as with yout gun down. Especially if you’re a genetically and cybernetically enhanced super soldier with a power armor which does all of the heavy-lifting and moving for you.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > No you cant, have a look at the 100m sprints they are all using technique to run that fast it doesn’t matter if your a super soldier. So lets say that you could have your wish and sprint is removed what would that do for halo?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > What would happen in reality if a 500 pound Spartan thrusted into a wall? Would he not even flinch? Would his or her aim remain steady?
> > > > > Why is realism more important than gameplay?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Realism is not more important than gameplay, just stating some facts.
> > >
> > >
> > > Well, here’s another fact: the addition of sprint has led to a lower TTK, which has further changed Halo’s gameplay.
> > > What does sprint do for Halo?
> >
> >
> > Well for me having sprint has lowered TTK which has made for faster gameplay. I like that change. Fair enough if you don’t. Halo games always change from Halo CE, Halo 2, Halo 3 these games have each brought something different to the game style. Halo 5 is no different. Halo for me is about power weapons, power positions, communication and strategy.
>
>
> I’m just gonna drop in and say that a lower TTK makes the game less skill-based and more along the lines of who has the fastest reaction time. Mechanical skill (skill jumps for power positions, positioning, map movement efficiency, etc.) can go bye bye when your TTK is so low all you have to do is spot and shoot. It rewards accuracy and reaction time more than game skill.

I would say that H:CE was the fastest and most skillful Halo. It had the shortest TTKs and it had no sprint.

9391

> 2533274839169051;9374:
> It’s something like irony or tragedy that this sprint battle is still going on years, so many years after it should be a non issue.
> In other comical news the game that knocked Halo off the top of the mountain is coming back to rub it in once again.
> Keep fighting over sprint guys like it matters once this generation of kids gets a taste of a real CoD and then they’ll never want anything else.
> The Halo series shouldn’t be completely trapped within the narrow frame work of how the first few games were made unless you all prefer a cookie cutter Halo by numbers design.
> So far every Halo has changed the game while retaining enough of it’s past.
> It’s a sad day since it seems that Gears and Forza are the Xbox’s flagships and Halo is a tugboat or dingy thanks to a community that pushed away new blood progressive growth while clinging to idolized memories.

You make this sound like change is always a good thing. But if it makes the game worse we shouldn’t have it. At all. Like Halo needs to change so lets take out Split-screen and make a bad story. That’s change.

9392

In regards to “encounter rate”
This post is more anecdotal than anything else, but I hope it draws in some discussion

When I play halo 5 Arena Maps, There are times that I find it difficult to locate people. One could argue that it’s the size of the map and the match size (4v4) is on the low end of the spectrum in terms of how many people the map should optimally accomidate.

However, I propose that size/speed isn’t really the problem with encounter rate - but the issue stems from map flow. Let me explain by using Midship (H2) and Truth (H5). Here are some pictures for reference - I tried to get the same perspective for each map
Midship - http://media.gamerevolution.com/images/galleries/641/halo-2-midship.jpg
Truth - http://www.podtacular.com/wp-content/uploads/Halo-5-Guardians-Multiplayer-Beta-Truth-Establishing-Charting-A-Course.jpg

Question: How many ways are there to get the sword on Midship?
Answer: 2 (or 4 depending on how you look at it) - You can come from the Pink tower or the carbine tower (4 would be describing the ways of getting to the pink tower and carbine tower respectively)

Now, same question, but with Truth - How many ways are there to get the sword on the map Truth
Answer: Tons, you can come from pink tower, carbine tower, and with sprint/thrust, you can come from any number of different angles out of the center of the base

Bringing this together - sprint/thrust makes for unpredictable map flow - Take for example the map Plaza - https://content.halocdn.com/media/Default/games/halo-5-guardians/map-images/arena/plaza-f08327b5d1de449f89ec17050ce0cb9f.jpg

(Here’s where the anecdotes come in), When I play this map and other maps re-skinned from it, I have a hard time getting into a flow for the match. People can sprint/thrust/charge from any direction. Flanks happen constantly. If it’s not happening to me, then it’s my team doing this to the other team.

I guess my conclusion, and where I would to get others opinion on, is this: Sprint’s/thurster’s/clamber’s effect on map design makes encounter rate drop. The increased size/scope and lack of flow causes a stale experience.
Can maps with sprint have a proper flow? Absolutely. I think March on Stormbreak, Raid on Apex 7 and Battle of Noctus are excellent maps with great flow and clear paths toward objectives/victory. Escape from Arc has a very wierd flow to it, but it’s manageable. On the other hand, I feel Skirmish at Dark star has horrible flow. My initial opinion on the newest warzone map is that it’s flow is also bad, but I don’t have enough experience on that one yet to offer a proper assesment.

Sooo…Thoughts on map flow/design in halo 5 and If sprint/thursters effect these? Are there any arena maps where the flow is controlled better?

9393

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> > > > > > > > > When did you start playing Halo? Halo originally had no sprint, adding it was the change. Im not affraid of the change cause ive been through it. And the reason super soldier are putting their guns down is because that allows them to run faster. You dont see Usan Bolt having his arms in a gun position.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I’ve played since CE, thank you very much.
> > > > > > > > So just because it already was like this in previous games makes it not a change? So removing dual wielding wasn’t a change either? Removing loadouts? Removing bloom?
> > > > > > > > As for the “run faster” thing, I have spent the last 50 pages or so disproving this statement. You can run equally as fast with your gun up as with yout gun down. Especially if you’re a genetically and cybernetically enhanced super soldier with a power armor which does all of the heavy-lifting and moving for you.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > No you cant, have a look at the 100m sprints they are all using technique to run that fast it doesn’t matter if your a super soldier. So lets say that you could have your wish and sprint is removed what would that do for halo?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What would happen in reality if a 500 pound Spartan thrusted into a wall? Would he not even flinch? Would his or her aim remain steady?
> > > > > > Why is realism more important than gameplay?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Realism is not more important than gameplay, just stating some facts.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Well, here’s another fact: the addition of sprint has led to a lower TTK, which has further changed Halo’s gameplay.
> > > > What does sprint do for Halo?
> > >
> > >
> > > Well for me having sprint has lowered TTK which has made for faster gameplay. I like that change. Fair enough if you don’t. Halo games always change from Halo CE, Halo 2, Halo 3 these games have each brought something different to the game style. Halo 5 is no different. Halo for me is about power weapons, power positions, communication and strategy.
> >
> >
> > I’m just gonna drop in and say that a lower TTK makes the game less skill-based and more along the lines of who has the fastest reaction time. Mechanical skill (skill jumps for power positions, positioning, map movement efficiency, etc.) can go bye bye when your TTK is so low all you have to do is spot and shoot. It rewards accuracy and reaction time more than game skill.
>
>
> I would say that H:CE was the fastest and most skillful Halo. It had the shortest TTKs and it had no sprint.

I actually think H2’s TTK was the best balance. Not quite as long as Halo 3’s, but longer than Halo: CE
Most of the pro players would agree that Halo:CE was more about individual skill than teamwork. Halo 2 had the same ability to showcase individual skill, but teamwork would trump that. Halo 3 was all about teamwork and individual skill was still important, but 4 people with great teamwork could beat a dream team of pros if their teamwork was off.

9394

> 2533274839169051;9374:
> It’s something like irony or tragedy that this sprint battle is still going on years, so many years after it should be a non issue.
> In other comical news the game that knocked Halo off the top of the mountain is coming back to rub it in once again.
> Keep fighting over sprint guys like it matters once this generation of kids gets a taste of a real CoD and then they’ll never want anything else.
> The Halo series shouldn’t be completely trapped within the narrow frame work of how the first few games were made unless you all prefer a cookie cutter Halo by numbers design.
> So far every Halo has changed the game while retaining enough of it’s past.
> It’s a sad day since it seems that Gears and Forza are the Xbox’s flagships and Halo is a tugboat or dingy thanks to a community that pushed away new blood progressive growth while clinging to idolized memories.

How does sprint benefit the gameplay and why do you keep avoiding this question with every complaint post you make?

9395

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> > > > > > > > > 2533274866652866;8999:
> > > > > > > > > When did you start playing Halo? Halo originally had no sprint, adding it was the change. Im not affraid of the change cause ive been through it. And the reason super soldier are putting their guns down is because that allows them to run faster. You dont see Usan Bolt having his arms in a gun position.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I’ve played since CE, thank you very much.
> > > > > > > > So just because it already was like this in previous games makes it not a change? So removing dual wielding wasn’t a change either? Removing loadouts? Removing bloom?
> > > > > > > > As for the “run faster” thing, I have spent the last 50 pages or so disproving this statement. You can run equally as fast with your gun up as with yout gun down. Especially if you’re a genetically and cybernetically enhanced super soldier with a power armor which does all of the heavy-lifting and moving for you.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > No you cant, have a look at the 100m sprints they are all using technique to run that fast it doesn’t matter if your a super soldier. So lets say that you could have your wish and sprint is removed what would that do for halo?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What would happen in reality if a 500 pound Spartan thrusted into a wall? Would he not even flinch? Would his or her aim remain steady?
> > > > > > Why is realism more important than gameplay?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Realism is not more important than gameplay, just stating some facts.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Well, here’s another fact: the addition of sprint has led to a lower TTK, which has further changed Halo’s gameplay.
> > > > What does sprint do for Halo?
> > >
> > >
> > > Well for me having sprint has lowered TTK which has made for faster gameplay. I like that change. Fair enough if you don’t. Halo games always change from Halo CE, Halo 2, Halo 3 these games have each brought something different to the game style. Halo 5 is no different. Halo for me is about power weapons, power positions, communication and strategy.
> >
> >
> > I’m just gonna drop in and say that a lower TTK makes the game less skill-based and more along the lines of who has the fastest reaction time. Mechanical skill (skill jumps for power positions, positioning, map movement efficiency, etc.) can go bye bye when your TTK is so low all you have to do is spot and shoot. It rewards accuracy and reaction time more than game skill.
>
>
> I would say that H:CE was the fastest and most skillful Halo. It had the shortest TTKs and it had no sprint.

Agreed. A fast minimum TTK is more skill based provided the weapons require a certain degree of skill to use. Somebody on TeamBeyond made a fantastic post explaining the importance of kill times. Definitely worth the read.

9396

> 2533274801176260;9389:
> It’s an analogy to kinetic gas theory. You have a set of particles, which can move in three dimensions and collide based on their temperature (aka energy), the number of particles and the volume that the gas occupies. The mean free path is given as L = const1T/p, where T/p can be expressed according to the Ideal Gas Law by some other constant multiplied by the volume, divided by the number of particles: T/p=const2V/N.
> So overall, the mean free path is L=const3V/N=const3hA/N.
> In our case, our “particles” (players) move only in two dimensions instead of three, so the height h is constant as well.
> The time between two “collisions” (encounters) can be expressed as the mean free path divided by the speed. t = L/v.
> Therefore the average time between two collisions is proportional to the area A and inverse proportional to the speed v and the number of particles (players) N.
> t ∝ A/(vN)

I find the analogy with kinetic gas theory troublesome because player encounters aren’t based on collisions, but whether the players see each other. Or, to put it another way, the effective volume of interacting players is generally much larger than the volume of the space containing them. This situation is fundamentally ill suited for the ideal gas approximation where it needs to be assumed that the average distance between particles is much greater than the distance at which their interaction is significant.

> 2533274801176260;9389:
> The dependencies all make sense:
> - The more players, the faster you see somebody.
> - The higher the speed, the faster you see somebody.
> - The larger the volume/area/map, the longer it takes for you to see somebody.

I agree, the qualitative dependencies make sense. All I’m saying is that you can’t really draw quantitative conclusions because we are dealing with a situation that doesn’t necessarily have a simple, sensible approximation.

9397

I’d like to be able to sprint as well cause that was a pain on halo 3

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> 2533274825830455;9396:
> > 2533274801176260;9389:
> > It’s an analogy to kinetic gas theory. You have a set of particles, which can move in three dimensions and collide based on their temperature (aka energy), the number of particles and the volume that the gas occupies. The mean free path is given as L = const1T/p, where T/p can be expressed according to the Ideal Gas Law by some other constant multiplied by the volume, divided by the number of particles: T/p=const2V/N.
> > So overall, the mean free path is L=const3V/N=const3hA/N.
> > In our case, our “particles” (players) move only in two dimensions instead of three, so the height h is constant as well.
> > The time between two “collisions” (encounters) can be expressed as the mean free path divided by the speed. t = L/v.
> > Therefore the average time between two collisions is proportional to the area A and inverse proportional to the speed v and the number of particles (players) N.
> > t ∝ A/(vN)
>
>
> I find the analogy with kinetic gas theory troublesome because player encounters aren’t based on collisions, but whether the players see each other. Or, to put it another way, the effective volume of interacting players is generally much larger than the volume of the space containing them. This situation is fundamentally ill suited for the ideal gas approximation where it needs to be assumed that the average distance between particles is much greater than the distance at which their interaction is significant.

I disagree. While the line of sight is potentially indefinite, it only goes until the next obstacle, be it a wall, a hill, a bend or whatever. No map has infinite lines of sight, so this is a case that is not realized ingame. It is also directional, with the FoV being reduced to around 80-90. Instead, the interaction distance can be roughly approximated by the radar range (which, I admit, did vary from game to game and I failed to account for it in the calculations). The only thing that changes when taking FoV and LoS into account is that we have a somewhat deformed interaction cross section, which also happens with physical cross sections when approaching relativistic speeds.
Similar approaches are also used to model traffic flow, where the same restrictions and/or extensions concerning LoS and FoV apply, so I don’t see any reason why it should not be applicable here as well. You just have to eliminate all parameters which are too abstract to be used in this scenario - pressure, temperature, and so forth - and focus on those that have actual physical meaning: Speed, volume, distance, time. Which I did. It’s not an be-all, end-all description of player movement, but it’s a valid approximation.

> 2533274825830455;9396:
> I agree, the qualitative dependencies make sense. All I’m saying is that you can’t really draw quantitative conclusions because we are dealing with a situation that doesn’t necessarily have a simple, sensible approximation.

I wasn’t drawing quantitative conclusions, I was drawing qualitative conclusions. v goes up by a factor of 1.7. A goes up by a factor of 2.9. N stays the same (as I’m only looking at 4v4). Ergo, t goes up also by a factor of 1.7. Those 15-20 seconds downtime weren’t calculated, they were measured to see if they’d validate the model assumptions. Which they did.

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> > > > > > > > > > > > 2546678360738636;9338:
> > > > > > > > > > > > It should be a loadlout like Halo Reach had so those who don’t want it, don’t have to use it.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Or one could simply not use sprint. Just because its an option doesn’t mean it MUST be used
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Does this mean that any issue I have with sprint goes away even though others are sprinting?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > What issues do you have?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > You’re telling me that sprinting is an option and I don’t have to use it.
> > > > > > > > > My issues are then irrelevant.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > So how does it exactly help if I stop sprinting?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If you’ve played Halo since CE or even Halo 3, you know how to play without Sprint so apply it to playing Halo 5
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > So, my issues, whatever they may be, are solved, if I stop sprinting?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The time it takes to reach a location is the same as if I was sprinting?
> > > > > > > I can still pursue a sprinting player as efficiently?
> > > > > > > I can still slide or use Spartan Charge?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Oh so now you decide to list your issues? Kthnx
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Reaching a location isn’t a big deal, a good player can work with high ground or low ground.
> > > > > > A sprinting player will eventually come back anyway so why chase? You never chase.
> > > > > > Jumping is a wonderful thing
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > So no, everything is still the same, I’m just handicapping myself?
> > > > >
> > > > > That’s not the way it works.
> > > > > If you disliked jumping, would you stop jumping?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Everyone is different. I rarely use Sprint as it is and it doesn’t affect my gameplay at all
> > >
> > >
> > > I’d say that if you were to meet a sprinting yourself you’d be handicapped.
> > > I’d say that if you see an opponent’s weakness you take advantage of it, the same would most likely go for a sprinting yourself seeing that you’re not sprinting at all, in any situation.
> > >
> > > Sprinting vs not-sprinting, absolute.
> >
> >
> > It’s not absolute. A sprinter would see a non sprinter as a weakness. A non sprinter would see a sprinter as weakness.
>
>
> No, I mean as a player that never sprints, in that way absolute.

Okay, that makes more sense

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> > > > > > > > It should be a loadlout like Halo Reach had so those who don’t want it, don’t have to use it.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Or one could simply not use sprint. Just because its an option doesn’t mean it MUST be used
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Does this mean that any issue I have with sprint goes away even though others are sprinting?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What issues do you have?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > You’re telling me that sprinting is an option and I don’t have to use it.
> > > > > My issues are then irrelevant.
> > > > >
> > > > > So how does it exactly help if I stop sprinting?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > If you’ve played Halo since CE or even Halo 3, you know how to play without Sprint so apply it to playing Halo 5
> > >
> > >
> > > So, my issues, whatever they may be, are solved, if I stop sprinting?
> > >
> > > The time it takes to reach a location is the same as if I was sprinting?
> > > I can still pursue a sprinting player as efficiently?
> > > I can still slide or use Spartan Charge?
> >
> >
> > Oh so now you decide to list your issues? Kthnx
> >
> > Reaching a location isn’t a big deal, a good player can work with high ground or low ground.
> > A sprinting player will eventually come back anyway so why chase? You never chase.
> > Jumping is a wonderful thing
>
>
> Reaching a location is a huge deal, especially at a higher level, something you don’t play in as it looks you only play WZ.
> The first part makes no sense. Chasing is more of an issue with sprint because if someone runs, and it happens a lot, if you choose to clean up you wont be able to shot immediately.
> Good job dodging the question.
>
> Hm, maybe if you don’t like rockets don’t pick it up? Oh, I know, don’t like OS? Don’t use it! That totally fixes the mechanic!

It all depends on how a player thinks when it comes to playing a game. Higher level has nothing to do with it. I play a good mix of Arena and WZ, still rarely sprint and it makes no difference for me. Sprinting (to me) is good for nothing but rushing power weapons and chasing. I’m not dodging questions, just pointing things out.

I don’t pick up power weapons very often because either A) Players get angry usually betray or horde them and B) Everyone always aims to pick it up so Ill be the one guy watching from afar picking off players fighting/waiting for the power weapons. Same goes for the OS.

Again, just because its in the game doesn’t mean you have to use it. Halo Reach had loadouts for players to pick but I still rarely used them. Doesn’t change my gameplay experience but I’ve also been playing since CE so I know how to play Halo without all the armor abilities and sprint. My opinion is that 90%+ of the players fight to keep sprint in Halo because they have little to no experience playing Halo without all the abilities.
Again, just my opinion.

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> > > > > > 2546678360738636;9340:
> > > > > > > 2533274795123910;9339:
> > > > > > > > 2546678360738636;9338:
> > > > > > > > It should be a loadlout like Halo Reach had so those who don’t want it, don’t have to use it.
> > > > > > > > Or one could simply not use sprint. Just because its an option doesn’t mean it MUST be used
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Does this mean that any issue I have with sprint goes away even though others are sprinting?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What issues do you have?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > You’re telling me that sprinting is an option and I don’t have to use it.
> > > > > My issues are then irrelevant.
> > > > > So how does it exactly help if I stop sprinting?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > If you’ve played Halo since CE or even Halo 3, you know how to play without Sprint so apply it to playing Halo 5
> > >
> > >
> > > So, my issues, whatever they may be, are solved, if I stop sprinting?
> > > The time it takes to reach a location is the same as if I was sprinting?
> > > I can still pursue a sprinting player as efficiently?
> > > I can still slide or use Spartan Charge?
> >
> >
> > Oh so now you decide to list your issues? Kthnx
> > Reaching a location isn’t a big deal, a good player can work with high ground or low ground.
> > A sprinting player will eventually come back anyway so why chase? You never chase.
> > Jumping is a wonderful thing
>
>
> - Yeah, while someone else can just sprint and get there faster if they so choose.
> - Players sprint away because they think they’ll die if they don’t do so. They have nothing to lose by continuing to run and only gain from it by staying alive. Even if they’re just sprinting around the map there’s little reason to think they’ll just decide to turn around.
> - Gotta love those one hit skills that jumping can provide.
>
> At best you’re saying that sprint changes nothing. If that’s the case, why is it in the game? What benefit does it have on the gameplay?

I just don’t think it makes a huge difference. It all depends on the player. I’ve been playing Halo for nearly 15 years, ever since CE was released. I have more experience playing without Sprint and Armor Abilities so it gives me an edge to be able to play without relying on anything else. It’s in the game because it attracts a new generation of players. It speeds up the gameplay so players don’t get bored. Its the same thing with Call of Duty. Look at gameplay speed of Modern Warfare compared to Blacks Ops 3 and the newest Infinite Warefare: its almost night and day difference.

I think that players have become so reliant on Sprint that the gameplay experience would be ruined for them because the gameplay pace would be so slow. It just depends on the player.

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> > > > > > > > > > When did you start playing Halo? Halo originally had no sprint, adding it was the change. Im not affraid of the change cause ive been through it. And the reason super soldier are putting their guns down is because that allows them to run faster. You dont see Usan Bolt having his arms in a gun position.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I’ve played since CE, thank you very much.
> > > > > > > > > So just because it already was like this in previous games makes it not a change? So removing dual wielding wasn’t a change either? Removing loadouts? Removing bloom?
> > > > > > > > > As for the “run faster” thing, I have spent the last 50 pages or so disproving this statement. You can run equally as fast with your gun up as with yout gun down. Especially if you’re a genetically and cybernetically enhanced super soldier with a power armor which does all of the heavy-lifting and moving for you.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > No you cant, have a look at the 100m sprints they are all using technique to run that fast it doesn’t matter if your a super soldier. So lets say that you could have your wish and sprint is removed what would that do for halo?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > What would happen in reality if a 500 pound Spartan thrusted into a wall? Would he not even flinch? Would his or her aim remain steady?
> > > > > > > Why is realism more important than gameplay?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Realism is not more important than gameplay, just stating some facts.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Well, here’s another fact: the addition of sprint has led to a lower TTK, which has further changed Halo’s gameplay.
> > > > > What does sprint do for Halo?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Well for me having sprint has lowered TTK which has made for faster gameplay. I like that change. Fair enough if you don’t. Halo games always change from Halo CE, Halo 2, Halo 3 these games have each brought something different to the game style. Halo 5 is no different. Halo for me is about power weapons, power positions, communication and strategy.
> > >
> > >
> > > I’m just gonna drop in and say that a lower TTK makes the game less skill-based and more along the lines of who has the fastest reaction time. Mechanical skill (skill jumps for power positions, positioning, map movement efficiency, etc.) can go bye bye when your TTK is so low all you have to do is spot and shoot. It rewards accuracy and reaction time more than game skill.
> >
> >
> > I would say that H:CE was the fastest and most skillful Halo. It had the shortest TTKs and it had no sprint.
>
>
> I actually think H2’s TTK was the best balance. Not quite as long as Halo 3’s, but longer than Halo: CE
> Most of the pro players would agree that Halo:CE was more about individual skill than teamwork. Halo 2 had the same ability to showcase individual skill, but teamwork would trump that. Halo 3 was all about teamwork and individual skill was still important, but 4 people with great teamwork could beat a dream team of pros if their teamwork was off.

I don’t think that H2 had the same ability to show individual skill. Br and sniper were way too easy to use, power weapons were on dynamic timers and couldn’t be naded and we got just some stupid -yoink- like melee lunge. I also think that teamwork tookbas much skill in CE as it does in H2, but H2 prioritized teamwork. Like you could not make any succesful pushes on a map like lockout by yourself.