The sprint discussion thread

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> > > Before Halo 5, there were 3 polls conducted in the three largest Halo communities, r/Halo, Team Beyond, and Halo Waypoint. Both r/Halo and Halo waypoint had large majorities(around 75 percent if I remember correctly) voting against sprint. Team Beyond was almost unanimous in voting against sprint(95 percent). Yet they decided to put in the game. They did this because( in the words of Josh Holmes) because “people expect to sprint” which is clearly pandering to audiences outside of Halo and not actually taking feedback from the Halo community like you said.
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> > We’ve been through this before, these polls are in all likelihood not at all representative of Halo players as a whole. I discussed in more detail earlier about why these polls probably are significantly biased here.
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> I understand that these polls aren’t representative of Halo players as a whole as generally people but these communities are the primary way 343 receives feedback so shouldn’t 343take into account the general sentiment of these communities towards sprint? I mean they don’t really have another way to ask people who play Halo about their view on specific gameplay mechanics unless they have an open in game poll

That depends, do they want to make a game for a specific group of people, or do they want to make a game for the largest possible audience? Not that those two are necessarily mutually exclusive, but still, triple-A developers want the largest possible audience, and therefore individual subcommunities, even if they consist of hardcore fans, only show what a small subset likes.

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> This kind of thinking is why Halo fans are getting sick and tired of being Halo fans. Halo is evolving and it’s doing great. Sprint fits perfectly into the game, which Halo Reach proved. If you want classic Halo go and play classic Halo, but don’t hold Halo back because of nostalgia.

What an absolute load of rubbish.

Halo’s population has been declining ever since Reach - until Halo 5, simply because Halo 5 has actually improved by - dun dun dun - going back to basics! We still have sprint yes, and larger, more boring maps to compensate for it, but AA’s, random weapons, loadouts have all gone, and Halo 5 has done well for it. Warzone of course being a slightly different experience as it is PvPvE.

Halo hasn’t “evolved” by adding all this rubbish (and then taking it away again) and sprint doesn’t “evolve” Halo either, it just dilutes the original gameplay. Saying these things evolve Halo is such an easy cheap cliche but it makes no sense at all. Tell me, on the 4v4 maps, why having sprint, and then making the maps massive to compensate for it, makes Halo any better than it just not being there?

Having sprint in the game is what is holding Halo back because of the ridiculous myth that we need to turn Halo into a “modern shooter” - you know, like we did with Halo 4, which went well. It’s time for Halo to evolve by removing sprint.

Yes, we’re all used to sprint. I am, you are, everyone is, we have no choice unless we don’t want to play the latest Halo game. But it adds nothing positive to the game and is only there in a vein attempt to appeal to a ‘more common’ audience who aren’t really Halo fans. If people could just step back and realise that when Halo was just…Halo, people played it all the time anyway because Halo’s core gameplay is great - you don’t need to add loads of rubbish to it, including sprint. Conversely, Halo is remarkably less popular than it used to be because of this stupid throwaway attitude.

I’m not saying you can never change anything, obviously you have to. I like the thruster, for example. But sprint is not the answer and never has been. I like Halo 5 overall and it is doing great in comparison to the awful games that came before it but lets not forget that it is still not as popular as Halo 3, and, while we don’t have the figures (I wonder why…) I think we can say with confidence that it is no where near Halo 3 and certainly will struggle with the same longevity unless the free updates keep on rolling out.

Final point “which Halo reach proved.” Proved how? By seeing an almost instantaneous drop off in population? By the near unanimous thoughts of Halo fans that it was absolute rubbish compared to the previous games? By having no stand out maps because they had to be worked around jetpack and sprint?

Apologies in that I’ve kinda gone straight for you here - I know that ultimately we all want the same thing (Halo to be awesome and popular). But we need to start bringing some more common sense into these arguments on sprint, and shutting down the conversation by saying it’s just “nostalgia” is not the way. Perhaps explain to us all what is so great about sprint, and why Halo needs it now when it clearly never needed it before - and also why the Halo games without sprint have been undoubtedly more successful than the ones that didn’t have it (I’m talking population, obviously).

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> > > > Before Halo 5, there were 3 polls conducted in the three largest Halo communities, r/Halo, Team Beyond, and Halo Waypoint. Both r/Halo and Halo waypoint had large majorities(around 75 percent if I remember correctly) voting against sprint. Team Beyond was almost unanimous in voting against sprint(95 percent). Yet they decided to put in the game. They did this because( in the words of Josh Holmes) because “people expect to sprint” which is clearly pandering to audiences outside of Halo and not actually taking feedback from the Halo community like you said.
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> > >
> > > We’ve been through this before, these polls are in all likelihood not at all representative of Halo players as a whole. I discussed in more detail earlier about why these polls probably are significantly biased here.
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> >
> > I understand that these polls aren’t representative of Halo players as a whole as generally people but these communities are the primary way 343 receives feedback so shouldn’t 343take into account the general sentiment of these communities towards sprint? I mean they don’t really have another way to ask people who play Halo about their view on specific gameplay mechanics unless they have an open in game poll
>
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> That depends, do they want to make a game for a specific group of people, or do they want to make a game for the largest possible audience? Not that those two are necessarily mutually exclusive, but still, triple-A developers want the largest possible audience, and therefore individual subcommunities, even if they consist of hardcore fans, only show what a small subset likes.

Yes but they have no way to actually determine what other halo players outside these communities actually want. The voices of communities serve as the only direct source of fan feedback to the developer, and therefore, should be listened to. I wasn’t here during Halo 4, but they seem to have removed loadouts, perks and all that other COD stuff based on the opinions of the communities even if they were only a small subset of players. Why can’t sprint be the same?

And I’d also say team beyond, reddit and waypoint have a good mix of halo fans throughout. Team beyond seems competitive, reddit seems casual, and waypoint seems to be a mix of both so the communities seem to at least somewhat representative of Halo fans as a whole, correct me if I’m wrong though

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> > > > Before Halo 5, there were 3 polls conducted in the three largest Halo communities, r/Halo, Team Beyond, and Halo Waypoint. Both r/Halo and Halo waypoint had large majorities(around 75 percent if I remember correctly) voting against sprint. Team Beyond was almost unanimous in voting against sprint(95 percent). Yet they decided to put in the game. They did this because( in the words of Josh Holmes) because “people expect to sprint” which is clearly pandering to audiences outside of Halo and not actually taking feedback from the Halo community like you said.
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> > > That depends, do they want to make a game for a specific group of people, or do they want to make a game for the largest possible audience? Not that those two are necessarily mutually exclusive, but still, triple-A developers want the largest possible audience, and therefore individual subcommunities, even if they consist of hardcore fans, only show what a small subset likes.

Unfortunately though this is a wholly ignorant corporate attitude towards making games that has served Halo no good at all. Halo was at it’s most popular when it just concentrated on being the great game that is…Halo. Ever since it has taken the attitude of trying to appeal to more audiences, it has failed and lost spectacular amounts of popularity.

Sales of course have still been excellent - but would anyone really suggest that if, for example, Halo 4 wasn’t a massive steaming pile of turd, it would have had less sales? I mean, it’s sales to population ratio was utterly embarrassing.

We need to forget all this rubbish about what people say they do and don’t like, and focus on the things that made Halo so popular in the first place. Frankly, only a very small percentage of people really “know” what they want. Most people just say they like this and that based on how well they do, what they appear to enjoy, without any real thought in to what actually makes this game/element of a game fun/not fun.

A classic example would be people who were dreadful at Halo 3 saying BR starts was rubbish and listing various ludicrous reasons - in reality they didn’t like it because there was a larger skill gap in BR starts and they’d often be on the receiving end of it - and of course, getting stomped is not fun at all. So in this situation, do we listen to the vast majority of poor players who say they don’t like it, on the basis that they aren’t very good at it, or the small minority of good players who say they do like it, and most of whom understand and can explain why it’s better due to a greater understanding of how the game works (And of course a few who are just talented, have no desire to think of understand and just trash people - I know, I know)? If we listen to the majority, they get their wish but the game ultimately becomes worse. This is just a small example but you see the point I’m making. 343 recently used “focus groups” to decide that there should be a saw on mercy - I mean fgs, how about we just use some common sense and logic?

You only have to look at Halo 4 to see “appealing to a wider audience” by reducing the skill gap and making the game more random ultimately leads to failure.

I personally don’t mind sprint. As certain people who have replied prior to me have said, it’s a mechanic that is now a part of the game. Albeit, it could be interesting to see a game mode or something else of the like devoted to what may be considered that “classic Halo” feel where no sprint or spartan abilities from Halo 5 and such could be utilized. I agree that sprint has it’s place in the game and I feel it makes the game more realistic. They are human, after all - a type of super soldier, at that. They should be able to sprint and tackle, and so on. Just have to know when is likely the ideal time to use them, like smart-link (which I personally always wondered why Spartans couldn’t aim down the sights or focus on a target when using a weapon predecessors to Halo 5: Guardians).

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> I personally don’t mind sprint. As certain people who have replied prior to me have said, it’s a mechanic that is now a part of the game. Albeit, it could be interesting to see a game mode or something else of the like devoted to what may be considered that “classic Halo” feel where no sprint or spartan abilities from Halo 5 and such could be utilized. I agree that sprint has it’s place in the game and I feel it makes the game more realistic. They are human, after all - a type of super soldier, at that. They should be able to sprint and tackle, and so on. Just have to know when is likely the ideal time to use them, like smart-link (which I personally always wondered why Spartans couldn’t aim down the sights or focus on a target when using a weapon predecessors to Halo 5: Guardians).

Because smart link is the process of linking the weapon scopes/sights to the Spartan HUD. They didn’t need to ADS because the technology allowed them not to. Just one of the many ways 343 messed with the lore to make Spartans less Spartan-like.

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> Yes but they have no way to actually determine what other halo players outside these communities actually want. The voices of communities serve as the only direct source of fan feedback to the developer, and therefore, should be listened to. I wasn’t here during Halo 4, but they seem to have removed loadouts, perks and all that other COD stuff based on the opinions of the communities even if they were only a small subset of players. Why can’t sprint be the same?

I don’t know, have they ever come out and specifically said they made the changes from Halo 4 to 5 based on community feedback? They usually don’t. We don’t really know anything about their internal decision making process, but I’d be surprised if any developer chose to be guided mostly by what the vocal part of their community says. If I were to bet, I’d say they have an array of things they consider when making design decisions from matchmaking data to ultimately how they feel about it.

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> And I’d also say team beyond, reddit and waypoint have a good mix of halo fans throughout. Team beyond seems competitive, reddit seems casual, and waypoint seems to be a mix of both so the communities seem to at least somewhat representative of Halo fans as a whole, correct me if I’m wrong though

It’s a bit naive to assume that there isn’t significant overlap between the polls. I discussed this in the post I linked. The Waypoint poll only had so many votes because its creator who happens to have a big, competitive following tweeted it. About the Reddit poll I don’t know, but I can imagine that a similar effect could apply to it. The thing about asking people’s opinions on the internet is that it’s polarizing. The people who don’t care significantly about the topic will just pass on. It’s the people who have very strong opinions who will share the poll to other people who hold the same strong opinion. So, the poll will ultimately be biased towards the side that’s the most passionate. On the internet, selection bias is amplified in every possible way. So, at the end of the day, you’re probably not looking at three individual poll, but the same poll with slight variations in the sample.

Your right. All the Halo games played awesome without sprint. I think it played well with sprint to. Having it is maybe a natural evalotion of the game as gaming syatems and programs get better over time. I would play Halo either way sprint or no sprint and prolly love it I’m sure. You got to admit tho when you running and somebody start shooing at you and has the upper hand and you hit the slid button and slid behind a wall just before the get you giving you a chance to let your shields recharge and return fire.

I do not think so because it is now indispensable for most games today that have this feature instead of moving forward would be back.

There are some approximate date for halo 6?

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> > Yes but they have no way to actually determine what other halo players outside these communities actually want. The voices of communities serve as the only direct source of fan feedback to the developer, and therefore, should be listened to. I wasn’t here during Halo 4, but they seem to have removed loadouts, perks and all that other COD stuff based on the opinions of the communities even if they were only a small subset of players. Why can’t sprint be the same?
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> I don’t know, have they ever come out and specifically said they made the changes from Halo 4 to 5 based on community feedback? They usually don’t. We don’t really know anything about their internal decision making process, but I’d be surprised if any developer chose to be guided mostly by what the vocal part of their community says. If I were to bet, I’d say they have an array of things they consider when making design decisions from matchmaking data to ultimately how they feel about it.
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> > And I’d also say team beyond, reddit and waypoint have a good mix of halo fans throughout. Team beyond seems competitive, reddit seems casual, and waypoint seems to be a mix of both so the communities seem to at least somewhat representative of Halo fans as a whole, correct me if I’m wrong though
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> It’s a bit naive to assume that there isn’t significant overlap between the polls. I discussed this in the post I linked. The Waypoint poll only had so many votes because its creator who happens to have a big, competitive following tweeted it. About the Reddit poll I don’t know, but I can imagine that a similar effect could apply to it. The thing about asking people’s opinions on the internet is that it’s polarizing. The people who don’t care significantly about the topic will just pass on. It’s the people who have very strong opinions who will share the poll to other people who hold the same strong opinion. So, the poll will ultimately be biased towards the side that’s the most passionate. On the internet, selection bias is amplified in every possible way. So, at the end of the day, you’re probably not looking at three individual poll, but the same poll with slight variations in the sample.

Fair enough

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> There are some approximate date for halo 6?

2018 or 2019 due to Halo Wars 2.

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> > There are some approximate date for halo 6?
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> 2018 or 2019 due to Halo Wars 2.

thanks we will be watching

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> > > There are some approximate date for halo 6?
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> > 2018 or 2019 due to Halo Wars 2.
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> thanks we will be watching

I just guessing but that’s the logical since a Halo games is usually 3 years to make.

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> > > > There are some approximate date for halo 6?
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> > > 2018 or 2019 due to Halo Wars 2.
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> > thanks we will be watching
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> I just guessing but that’s the logical since a Halo games is usually 3 years to make.

let’s hope so and not take many years to see what ends cortana

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> > 2535452250728209;9205:
> > Yes but they have no way to actually determine what other halo players outside these communities actually want. The voices of communities serve as the only direct source of fan feedback to the developer, and therefore, should be listened to. I wasn’t here during Halo 4, but they seem to have removed loadouts, perks and all that other COD stuff based on the opinions of the communities even if they were only a small subset of players. Why can’t sprint be the same?
>
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> I don’t know, have they ever come out and specifically said they made the changes from Halo 4 to 5 based on community feedback? They usually don’t. We don’t really know anything about their internal decision making process, but I’d be surprised if any developer chose to be guided mostly by what the vocal part of their community says. If I were to bet, I’d say they have an array of things they consider when making design decisions from matchmaking data to ultimately how they feel about it.

Blizzard does that almost all the time, you don’t see their studio in chaos and shambles. In fact they are widely praised for being one of the best developers out there.The community knows whats best.

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> > > Yes but they have no way to actually determine what other halo players outside these communities actually want. The voices of communities serve as the only direct source of fan feedback to the developer, and therefore, should be listened to. I wasn’t here during Halo 4, but they seem to have removed loadouts, perks and all that other COD stuff based on the opinions of the communities even if they were only a small subset of players. Why can’t sprint be the same?
> >
> >
> > I don’t know, have they ever come out and specifically said they made the changes from Halo 4 to 5 based on community feedback? They usually don’t. We don’t really know anything about their internal decision making process, but I’d be surprised if any developer chose to be guided mostly by what the vocal part of their community says. If I were to bet, I’d say they have an array of things they consider when making design decisions from matchmaking data to ultimately how they feel about it.
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> Blizzard does that almost all the time, you don’t see their studio in chaos and shambles. In fact they are widely praised for being one of the best developers out there.The community knows whats best.

Well, 343 is not Blizzard. 343 cares not for petty things like “fun” or “feedback”.

Blizzard mission statement: “Gameplay first; Commit to quality” (that’s their actual mission statement)

343i mission statement: “Immersion, bro; Commit to quality immersion” (probably their actual mission statement)

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> > > > Yes but they have no way to actually determine what other halo players outside these communities actually want. The voices of communities serve as the only direct source of fan feedback to the developer, and therefore, should be listened to. I wasn’t here during Halo 4, but they seem to have removed loadouts, perks and all that other COD stuff based on the opinions of the communities even if they were only a small subset of players. Why can’t sprint be the same?
> > >
> > >
> > > I don’t know, have they ever come out and specifically said they made the changes from Halo 4 to 5 based on community feedback? They usually don’t. We don’t really know anything about their internal decision making process, but I’d be surprised if any developer chose to be guided mostly by what the vocal part of their community says. If I were to bet, I’d say they have an array of things they consider when making design decisions from matchmaking data to ultimately how they feel about it.
> >
> >
> > Blizzard does that almost all the time, you don’t see their studio in chaos and shambles. In fact they are widely praised for being one of the best developers out there.The community knows whats best.
>
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> Well, 343 is not Blizzard. 343 cares not for petty things like “fun” or “feedback”.
>
> Blizzard mission statement: “Gameplay first; Commit to quality” (that’s their actual mission statement)
>
> 343i mission statement: “Immersion, bro; Commit to quality immersion” (probably their actual mission statement)

This is 343’s theme song.

[deleted]

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> > > > > Yes but they have no way to actually determine what other halo players outside these communities actually want. The voices of communities serve as the only direct source of fan feedback to the developer, and therefore, should be listened to. I wasn’t here during Halo 4, but they seem to have removed loadouts, perks and all that other COD stuff based on the opinions of the communities even if they were only a small subset of players. Why can’t sprint be the same?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I don’t know, have they ever come out and specifically said they made the changes from Halo 4 to 5 based on community feedback? They usually don’t. We don’t really know anything about their internal decision making process, but I’d be surprised if any developer chose to be guided mostly by what the vocal part of their community says. If I were to bet, I’d say they have an array of things they consider when making design decisions from matchmaking data to ultimately how they feel about it.
> > >
> > >
> > > Blizzard does that almost all the time, you don’t see their studio in chaos and shambles. In fact they are widely praised for being one of the best developers out there.The community knows whats best.
> >
> >
> > Well, 343 is not Blizzard. 343 cares not for petty things like “fun” or “feedback”.
> >
> > Blizzard mission statement: “Gameplay first; Commit to quality” (that’s their actual mission statement)
> >
> > 343i mission statement: “Immersion, bro; Commit to quality immersion” (probably their actual mission statement)
>
>
> This is 343’s theme song.

Hmm, Activision/Blizzard have a 50$ season pass for CoD, sold 2 Destiny DLC for 20-30$, I also believe there was a season pass before those 2 releases. Not to mention every time they release a DLC now for Destiny, they bundle it with the game usually for 60$.

Think they are all in it for money, some just get more then others, or offer better deals varying how you look at it.