The sprint discussion thread

Games Halo 5: Guardians
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> > > > > This kind of thinking is why Halo fans are getting sick and tired of being Halo fans. Halo is evolving and it’s doing great. Sprint fits perfectly into the game, which Halo Reach proved. If you want classic Halo go and play classic Halo, but don’t hold Halo back because of nostalgia.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > How does sprint benefit the gameplay?
> > >
> > >
> > > Increases time engaged in combat. Helps create new strategies for team and solo play. Allows for additional map movement, and a more specific range of skill jumps ect.
> > > As it was in Halo Reach, if you use sprint, you use it properly, or you suffer. If you run around sprinting all game then it’s not gonna make you a great player, same as most games.
> > > What most people forget is, Halo 5 isn’t Halo 3. Halo 5 isn’t Halo 2, or CE, or any of the other games. Halo 5 is it’s own game, and thus sprint works because it is it’s own game. Halo 5 is made around sprint being a key factor, and so there is constant benefit. Halo 5’s multiplayer at it’s core is certainly the best Halo experience we’ve had yet. It’s well built and everything actually has a purpose. The skilled players are skilled, and the average players are clearly average, and this happens because of the game, not because of any other system in place, unlike previous titles.
> >
> >
> > I know you started from Reach, judging from your service record, but I disagree with you on some parts.
> >
> > Sprint only increases time engaged in combat when there’s either a lot of cover, or when sprint itself doesn’t have any drawbacks like what we have now. Currently, the one-on-one battles almost feel like Halo, since sprint won’t allow you to recharge your shields, but when you’re trying to find someone, right now it’s mostly empty-space and kinda slow, honestly. The battles are probably the only fast-paced thing about this game to me.
> >
> > I’d argue that it doesn’t create new strategies, but changes them. What was possible before isn’t possible now, and what we can do now isn’t what we could do before because of the new map designs. That combined with the mostly enclosed, but lengthy map design in 5 reduces the amount of strategies that are viable to lane flanks and viewpoint visibility variations. I could be wrong since I need to get more familiar with a lot of the maps, but that’s my first impressions after playing about 3-5 different maps in 4v4s in H5 Forge.
> >
> > We had skill jumps that were very specific before in CE-Reach, but I never tried them out for myself.
> >
> > Personally, if the game carries the name of a series, then it should try to do it justice or be familiar to fans, instead of standing on its own, like what The Coalition, Eidos Montreal, Insomniac, Square Enix, and Nintendo did with their current and upcoming titles. Final Fantasy XV is very different from the other ones, but it looks and plays like a FF title should.
>
>
> I started from CE, and have played from CE to now. That part is fair enough, as it’s your experience, and if you’re having a slow gaming experience, I can’t say I can relate, because I’ve never experienced that myself in Halo 5.
>
> I’ll agree that the maps have changed a lot to take away some strategies. The map design in Halo 5 could do with a change up. Less Arena symmetrical maps that’s for sure, and more dedicated isometric maps, maybe even FFA ones. There are plenty of maps that heavily rely on corridor gameplay and less about managing your team, but equally there are a lot of small maps that are open and are given extra benefits if sprint is used correctly on them.
> Halo 3 had plenty of skill jumps, and they were only slightly more difficult than Halo 5s, but personally I think that’s down to the frames rather than the map design or game mechanics.
>
> You have said something very interesting there though. About a game being familiar to the fans, instead of standing out. Every single Halo game has been different. Halo CE to Halo 2 was a massive jump and the multiplayer was different in tons of ways gameplay wise. I think the same could be said for Halo 3 to Halo Reach. I wouldn’t say Halo 5 looks like it doesn’t fit in. Most of 343’s design ideas come from Bungies original ideas for what they’d pictured things being like. Design wise I’d say 343I’s games fit in fine with the Halo universe.
> To me, it seems like certain fans just don’t like change, which is fine, because it’s always been that way. The only difference I’m seeing now is that, whilst before, we all just accepted change and believed it was the best thing for Halo because Bungie were creating it, now the feedback has become less of feedback, and more just hatred or negativity towards 343 Industries. This has generally been the case since it was announced that 343 Industries took over.
>
> Thanks for the response by the way. You make good points.

Not true actually. AA’s were largely looked down on, as was bloom in Reach. 343 actually made a good first impression because of the update they made to Reach when they took over and people mostly liked Halo anniversary (even though they were pissed it didnt have the original MP). If we hated change simply because 343 made it, we wouldn’t be here getting into detail as to why we think it’s bad.

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> > > > > > > This kind of thinking is why Halo fans are getting sick and tired of being Halo fans. Halo is evolving and it’s doing great. Sprint fits perfectly into the game, which Halo Reach proved. If you want classic Halo go and play classic Halo, but don’t hold Halo back because of nostalgia.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > How does sprint benefit the gameplay?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Increases time engaged in combat. Helps create new strategies for team and solo play. Allows for additional map movement, and a more specific range of skill jumps ect.
> > > > > As it was in Halo Reach, if you use sprint, you use it properly, or you suffer. If you run around sprinting all game then it’s not gonna make you a great player, same as most games.
> > > > > What most people forget is, Halo 5 isn’t Halo 3. Halo 5 isn’t Halo 2, or CE, or any of the other games. Halo 5 is it’s own game, and thus sprint works because it is it’s own game. Halo 5 is made around sprint being a key factor, and so there is constant benefit. Halo 5’s multiplayer at it’s core is certainly the best Halo experience we’ve had yet. It’s well built and everything actually has a purpose. The skilled players are skilled, and the average players are clearly average, and this happens because of the game, not because of any other system in place, unlike previous titles.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Sprint actually tends to not increase time engaged in combat since the maps are made larger because of sprint. It also doesn’t create as many new strategies as you would think, since it limits your actions. Jumps that you can only make with sprint aren’t necessarily a good thing (though I’d be interested to hear why you think they are) because previously, you would be able to use all jumps in and out of combat, whether you’re facing the jump or jumping backwards/sideways without looking - which obviously takes a degree of skill and map awareness to use on the fly - but with sprint only jumps, they’re very situational and not able to be used during combat (plus, you need to be looking exactly where you’re going). That’s just another way sprint restricts you, both as a player and in terms of potential strategies and/or tactics. Jumps that can only be made with sprint seem to serve the same purpose as jumps that can only be landed with clamber: to simply justify the inclusion of the mechanic.
> > >
> > >
> > > Well, Halo 5 without sprint would certainly have less time engaged, because the maps are made for sprint, and thus people get to each other quicker. It may not create as many new strategies as I’d think, but it does increase the number of strategies regardless. Team based modes especially have a lot of additional strategies due to all the extra choices of map movement and flanking thanks to sprint. It isn’t necessarily jumps that require sprint, more that it’s skill jumps that require sprint. Reaching points on the map that allow split second clambers or jump offs, so you can then reach another point on the map. Similar to bouncing on Halo 3. The jumps that are useful because of sprint aren’t really jumps you could do while in combat, but they do add to gameplay for those who are able to pull them off. The jumps that are common and known to the player usually have a harder more skilled version that is less dangerous and quicker to do. Sprint overall restricts combat, but that’s not something new, but as is the same with the other Halo games, it’s not sprint itself that gets you killed, it’s using it at the wrong times. Players are accountable for putting themselves in the situation where they can be restricted, but used correctly, all armour abilities, not just sprint can be used without the issue of it stopping them doing what they needed to do.
> >
> >
> > That’s true about Halo 5’s average time between engagements without sprint being longer than they are now, but that’s why we’re asking for the removal of sprint going into Halo 6, than removing it from Halo 5.
> >
> > I think while sprint may add new strategies, it does so at the expense of forcing the player to use their skill and wit at a greater frequency. Sprint’s just a press of the button to get to where you want to go (provided you use it at the right time), but more thought and strategy is overall required by the player in order to do what you have to do just by jumping, shooting or grenading whether you’re on the offensive or defensive. Like, you could use jumping and slopes around maps to get around quicker where possible. As an example, I remember in Halo 3 on Valhalla, when I would go off the mancannon, I would use crouch as I landed, then uncrouch and jump and the momentum provided would get me to the high ground (and the power weapon) faster than the enemy. That’s also how a lot of trick/skill jumps were accomplished, it just required some knowledge of the physics and getting the timing and positioning right, whereas sprint largely requires you to press the button to get you there faster. Even now, thruster could give you a small boost, but not one that limits you so much or asks you to be defensiveless for an extended period.
> >
> > There’s too much chance in regards to when to use sprint and when not to use it, which becomes a problem since you’re not allowed to shoot/melee/grenade. I can’t know if the enemies that are out of view are sprinting for this power weapon or if they’re being more careful and running normal with their weapons up. I could play it safe and risk them getting the better positioning or sprint there and risk being shot at first because they chose to stop sprinting half a second before me. There’s too much chance and not enough skill involved in sprint and it often - though perhaps not always - asks the player to make decisions liek these without the proper knowledge and they have to do so with some pretty big trade offs.
> >
> > Lastly, if you’re talking just general skill jumps with sprint, it’s hard for me to comment since clamber itself kind of thins the jump skill gaps, but that’s another topic entirely.
>
>
> I think 343 Industries should do with Halo 6 what they should of done with Halo 5. Playlists for those who want to play with the AA enabled and playlists for those who don’t.
> While I do agree there has been ways to get around quickly and easily in past Halo games without sprint, I would argue that the type of game is different in the fact that one was more an open arms friendly FPS with competitive aspects (Halo 3), and one being a full focused competitive game (Halo 5) which does I admit limit what type of maps and gametypes can be used.
>
> To summarize a reply to your 2nd and 3rd paragraphs, I’d personally say that everything you’ve described there is based on skill and not chance. For example, sprinting into a power weapon position in a team based gametype would never be an option unless you’d fully cleared the enemies or know where they are at. If it’s at the start of a game, then your team should have a strategy on how to get the weapon first and how to counter most of the enemies strategies. Asking the player to make decisions without proper knowledge surely comes down to the player not having that knowledge in the first place? Everything can be learned, and predicted. Most people have surprisingly similar strategies for that sort of thing, so from my personal view, i’d say there’s no chance in sprint, there’s only mistakes and strategies.
>
> Skill jumps ftw :slight_smile:

Multiple different speeds keeps things from being particularly predictable (which can be costly when you may not be able to fire back). I guess we’ll agree to disagree on what’s chance and what’s skill.

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> > > I see a lot of comments saying “This isn’t what Halo is.” or “Having “BLANK” makes this less like Halo.”
> > > Anyone care to explain what Halo actually is then as a game? or does everyone have a different view on what makes Halo halo? Because if everyone has a different view, it doesn’t matter how much complaining is done, because the perfect game for everyone will never exist.
> >
> >
> > I thought Agent C had a pretty good description of Halos core.
>
>
> Thank you for that link. While I do agree at some details of his points, I would say that it still always comes down to individual preference and experience. I’d also say that each of those points have changed every Halo game. I mean come on, Halo’s CE melee system made us swing our arms around like J-POP fans at a concert. The layered health system is again something that has changed between some of the Halo games, and each fan would have a preference for each of those 3 points for what game they think it works the best on.
> As his description that’s pretty good and interesting, but I would say that although some people might have the same views, some people also have different ones on what core Halo is, and thus the Halo community as a whole will always be split on the direction they want Halo to go.

I don’t know what you’re getting at with how we swung our arms in CE, but the layered shield/health system has remained a constant in the games. They may have behaved slightly different in certain games, but the concept always remained and is still generally the same: you have a regenerating shield and health underneath it. That allows weapons to vary more in how they damage players.

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> > > > > > This kind of thinking is why Halo fans are getting sick and tired of being Halo fans. Halo is evolving and it’s doing great. Sprint fits perfectly into the game, which Halo Reach proved. If you want classic Halo go and play classic Halo, but don’t hold Halo back because of nostalgia.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > How does sprint benefit the gameplay?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Increases time engaged in combat. Helps create new strategies for team and solo play. Allows for additional map movement, and a more specific range of skill jumps ect.
> > > > As it was in Halo Reach, if you use sprint, you use it properly, or you suffer. If you run around sprinting all game then it’s not gonna make you a great player, same as most games.
> > > > What most people forget is, Halo 5 isn’t Halo 3. Halo 5 isn’t Halo 2, or CE, or any of the other games. Halo 5 is it’s own game, and thus sprint works because it is it’s own game. Halo 5 is made around sprint being a key factor, and so there is constant benefit. Halo 5’s multiplayer at it’s core is certainly the best Halo experience we’ve had yet. It’s well built and everything actually has a purpose. The skilled players are skilled, and the average players are clearly average, and this happens because of the game, not because of any other system in place, unlike previous titles.
> > >
> > >
> > > I know you started from Reach, judging from your service record, but I disagree with you on some parts.
> > >
> > > Sprint only increases time engaged in combat when there’s either a lot of cover, or when sprint itself doesn’t have any drawbacks like what we have now. Currently, the one-on-one battles almost feel like Halo, since sprint won’t allow you to recharge your shields, but when you’re trying to find someone, right now it’s mostly empty-space and kinda slow, honestly. The battles are probably the only fast-paced thing about this game to me.
> > >
> > > I’d argue that it doesn’t create new strategies, but changes them. What was possible before isn’t possible now, and what we can do now isn’t what we could do before because of the new map designs. That combined with the mostly enclosed, but lengthy map design in 5 reduces the amount of strategies that are viable to lane flanks and viewpoint visibility variations. I could be wrong since I need to get more familiar with a lot of the maps, but that’s my first impressions after playing about 3-5 different maps in 4v4s in H5 Forge.
> > >
> > > We had skill jumps that were very specific before in CE-Reach, but I never tried them out for myself.
> > >
> > > Personally, if the game carries the name of a series, then it should try to do it justice or be familiar to fans, instead of standing on its own, like what The Coalition, Eidos Montreal, Insomniac, Square Enix, and Nintendo did with their current and upcoming titles. Final Fantasy XV is very different from the other ones, but it looks and plays like a FF title should.
> >
> >
> > I started from CE, and have played from CE to now. That part is fair enough, as it’s your experience, and if you’re having a slow gaming experience, I can’t say I can relate, because I’ve never experienced that myself in Halo 5.
> >
> > I’ll agree that the maps have changed a lot to take away some strategies. The map design in Halo 5 could do with a change up. Less Arena symmetrical maps that’s for sure, and more dedicated isometric maps, maybe even FFA ones. There are plenty of maps that heavily rely on corridor gameplay and less about managing your team, but equally there are a lot of small maps that are open and are given extra benefits if sprint is used correctly on them.
> > Halo 3 had plenty of skill jumps, and they were only slightly more difficult than Halo 5s, but personally I think that’s down to the frames rather than the map design or game mechanics.
> >
> > You have said something very interesting there though. About a game being familiar to the fans, instead of standing out. Every single Halo game has been different. Halo CE to Halo 2 was a massive jump and the multiplayer was different in tons of ways gameplay wise. I think the same could be said for Halo 3 to Halo Reach. I wouldn’t say Halo 5 looks like it doesn’t fit in. Most of 343’s design ideas come from Bungies original ideas for what they’d pictured things being like. Design wise I’d say 343I’s games fit in fine with the Halo universe.
> > To me, it seems like certain fans just don’t like change, which is fine, because it’s always been that way. The only difference I’m seeing now is that, whilst before, we all just accepted change and believed it was the best thing for Halo because Bungie were creating it, now the feedback has become less of feedback, and more just hatred or negativity towards 343 Industries. This has generally been the case since it was announced that 343 Industries took over.
> >
> > Thanks for the response by the way. You make good points.
>
>
> Not true actually. AA’s were largely looked down on, as was bloom in Reach. 343 actually made a good first impression because of the update they made to Reach when they took over and people mostly liked Halo anniversary (even though they were pissed it didnt have the original MP). If we hated change simply because 343 made it, we wouldn’t be here getting into detail as to why we think it’s bad.

I’m aware that Halo Reach wasn’t a great game at launch, and that 343I made it the great game it was, however, what I’m saying is, if Bungie were the ones still making Halo, fans wouldn’t give anywhere near as much negativity. I don’t mean negative feedback, I mean hate and abuse. Negative feedback is standard, but a lot of people aren’t going about giving it the right way. That’s what I was saying.

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> > > > I see a lot of comments saying “This isn’t what Halo is.” or “Having “BLANK” makes this less like Halo.”
> > > > Anyone care to explain what Halo actually is then as a game? or does everyone have a different view on what makes Halo halo? Because if everyone has a different view, it doesn’t matter how much complaining is done, because the perfect game for everyone will never exist.
> > >
> > >
> > > I thought Agent C had a pretty good description of Halos core.
> >
> >
> > Thank you for that link. While I do agree at some details of his points, I would say that it still always comes down to individual preference and experience. I’d also say that each of those points have changed every Halo game. I mean come on, Halo’s CE melee system made us swing our arms around like J-POP fans at a concert. The layered health system is again something that has changed between some of the Halo games, and each fan would have a preference for each of those 3 points for what game they think it works the best on.
> > As his description that’s pretty good and interesting, but I would say that although some people might have the same views, some people also have different ones on what core Halo is, and thus the Halo community as a whole will always be split on the direction they want Halo to go.
>
>
> I don’t know what you’re getting at with how we swung our arms in CE, but the layered shield/health system has remained a constant in the games. They may have behaved slightly different in certain games, but the concept always remained and is still generally the same: you have a regenerating shield and health underneath it. That allows weapons to vary more in how they damage players.

It was just basically meaning everyone swung their arms around hopelessly.
But I do get what you’re saying, i’m just saying things changed for every core element per game. How the weapons worked was a main thing that changed too.

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> > I see a lot of comments saying “This isn’t what Halo is.” or “Having “BLANK” makes this less like Halo.”
> > Anyone care to explain what Halo actually is then as a game? or does everyone have a different view on what makes Halo halo? Because if everyone has a different view, it doesn’t matter how much complaining is done, because the perfect game for everyone will never exist.
>
>
> Halo is supposed to be fun (direct from Bungie’s ViDocs), not competitive. The game’s popularity, fun factor, and above average balance just helped push the competitive scene that quickly came around.
>
> Halo is supposed to be about choice, choosing whether or not to use an ability or weapon, which aren’t what Halo 5’s maps are designed around. Armor Abilities weren’t required to be used in Reach (I never used anything apart from Evade and Armor Lock) and Equipment was almost always ignored in Halo 3 (I fought for the Bubble Shield and Energy Drain spawns a lot more than others). I never used the power weapons, since they were always being juggled around and my skill was a little below average, yet the team mostly came out on top (apparently I have a 1.23 Win Ratio in Reach and 1.5 in 4 on my old account. I can’t find 2 or 3’s Win/Loss stats).
>
> Small maps are supposed to be either enclosed and mostly within the vertical FoV (Forge World: The Cage, Battle Creek exterior), or open and vertical (Lockout (kinda), Guardian, Ascension). Medium sized maps are either almost completely open and mostly “flat” (High Ground, Zanzibar, The Pit), or has an open middle and enclosed exterior (Countdown, Boardwalk, Powerhouse). Large maps are supposed to be at least somewhat open with a variety of play spaces (Rat’s Nest, Sandtrap, Blood Gulch/Valhalla, Terminal, Headlong).

That was Bungie’s vision for Halo though. We don’t have Bungie anymore. The direction and vision for Halo has changed. Sure Halo 5 has less fun factor, but that’s for people who struggle with competitive. Why do we focus so much on competitive? It’s because the fans said it wasn’t competitive enough when Halo 4 came out. Halo 5 is a direct result of Halo 4’s feedback (except the campaign).

Halo 5 certainly offers plenty of choice. Some of Halo 5’s maps may focus on an A to B sort of gameplay, but every Halo has had a range of maps with differ on how the map is meant to be played. The problem with all those map comparisons are they’re of games that didn’t have the gameplay we do now. Halo 3 only really had a handful of decent maps in my opinion. The reason however all the maps in the game worked well was because of the game itself. It’s the same for Halo 5. Halo 5’s maps would not work on Halo 3, and vice versa. Halo 5 is catered to competitive play, and therefore so are the maps, and as such, the use of the maps and how they’re “supposed to be” has changed, because Halo is now not a casual FPS, it’s an Competitive Arena FPS.

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> > > > > > > This kind of thinking is why Halo fans are getting sick and tired of being Halo fans. Halo is evolving and it’s doing great. Sprint fits perfectly into the game, which Halo Reach proved. If you want classic Halo go and play classic Halo, but don’t hold Halo back because of nostalgia.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > How does sprint benefit the gameplay?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Increases time engaged in combat. Helps create new strategies for team and solo play. Allows for additional map movement, and a more specific range of skill jumps ect.
> > > > > As it was in Halo Reach, if you use sprint, you use it properly, or you suffer. If you run around sprinting all game then it’s not gonna make you a great player, same as most games.
> > > > > What most people forget is, Halo 5 isn’t Halo 3. Halo 5 isn’t Halo 2, or CE, or any of the other games. Halo 5 is it’s own game, and thus sprint works because it is it’s own game. Halo 5 is made around sprint being a key factor, and so there is constant benefit. Halo 5’s multiplayer at it’s core is certainly the best Halo experience we’ve had yet. It’s well built and everything actually has a purpose. The skilled players are skilled, and the average players are clearly average, and this happens because of the game, not because of any other system in place, unlike previous titles.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I know you started from Reach, judging from your service record, but I disagree with you on some parts.
> > > >
> > > > Sprint only increases time engaged in combat when there’s either a lot of cover, or when sprint itself doesn’t have any drawbacks like what we have now. Currently, the one-on-one battles almost feel like Halo, since sprint won’t allow you to recharge your shields, but when you’re trying to find someone, right now it’s mostly empty-space and kinda slow, honestly. The battles are probably the only fast-paced thing about this game to me.
> > > >
> > > > I’d argue that it doesn’t create new strategies, but changes them. What was possible before isn’t possible now, and what we can do now isn’t what we could do before because of the new map designs. That combined with the mostly enclosed, but lengthy map design in 5 reduces the amount of strategies that are viable to lane flanks and viewpoint visibility variations. I could be wrong since I need to get more familiar with a lot of the maps, but that’s my first impressions after playing about 3-5 different maps in 4v4s in H5 Forge.
> > > >
> > > > We had skill jumps that were very specific before in CE-Reach, but I never tried them out for myself.
> > > >
> > > > Personally, if the game carries the name of a series, then it should try to do it justice or be familiar to fans, instead of standing on its own, like what The Coalition, Eidos Montreal, Insomniac, Square Enix, and Nintendo did with their current and upcoming titles. Final Fantasy XV is very different from the other ones, but it looks and plays like a FF title should.
> > >
> > >
> > > I started from CE, and have played from CE to now. That part is fair enough, as it’s your experience, and if you’re having a slow gaming experience, I can’t say I can relate, because I’ve never experienced that myself in Halo 5.
> > >
> > > I’ll agree that the maps have changed a lot to take away some strategies. The map design in Halo 5 could do with a change up. Less Arena symmetrical maps that’s for sure, and more dedicated isometric maps, maybe even FFA ones. There are plenty of maps that heavily rely on corridor gameplay and less about managing your team, but equally there are a lot of small maps that are open and are given extra benefits if sprint is used correctly on them.
> > > Halo 3 had plenty of skill jumps, and they were only slightly more difficult than Halo 5s, but personally I think that’s down to the frames rather than the map design or game mechanics.
> > >
> > > You have said something very interesting there though. About a game being familiar to the fans, instead of standing out. Every single Halo game has been different. Halo CE to Halo 2 was a massive jump and the multiplayer was different in tons of ways gameplay wise. I think the same could be said for Halo 3 to Halo Reach. I wouldn’t say Halo 5 looks like it doesn’t fit in. Most of 343’s design ideas come from Bungies original ideas for what they’d pictured things being like. Design wise I’d say 343I’s games fit in fine with the Halo universe.
> > > To me, it seems like certain fans just don’t like change, which is fine, because it’s always been that way. The only difference I’m seeing now is that, whilst before, we all just accepted change and believed it was the best thing for Halo because Bungie were creating it, now the feedback has become less of feedback, and more just hatred or negativity towards 343 Industries. This has generally been the case since it was announced that 343 Industries took over.
> > >
> > > Thanks for the response by the way. You make good points.
> >
> >
> > Not true actually. AA’s were largely looked down on, as was bloom in Reach. 343 actually made a good first impression because of the update they made to Reach when they took over and people mostly liked Halo anniversary (even though they were pissed it didnt have the original MP). If we hated change simply because 343 made it, we wouldn’t be here getting into detail as to why we think it’s bad.
>
>
> I’m aware that Halo Reach wasn’t a great game at launch, and that 343I made it the great game it was, however, what I’m saying is, if Bungie were the ones still making Halo, fans wouldn’t give anywhere near as much negativity. I don’t mean negative feedback, I mean hate and abuse. Negative feedback is standard, but a lot of people aren’t going about giving it the right way. That’s what I was saying.

Well, they did give us Halo 4 and MCC. If Bungie did that, they’d be getting the same -Yoink-. At this point, 343 has screwed up so much and so bad that people aren’t convinced they’re just making bad decisions, they think they’re making stupid decisions. You can screw up only so much before people just assume you can’t do anything right, especially with issues like sprint that we’ve been telling them about for four years. I laid it out here after watching the video in that thread and people seemed to agree.

9151

> 2533274819567236;9150:
> > 2533274825768602;9147:
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> > > > > 2535464451695009;9134:
> > > > > > 2533274825768602;9127:
> > > > > > > 2533274819567236;9126:
> > > > > > > > 2533274825768602;9125:
> > > > > > > > This kind of thinking is why Halo fans are getting sick and tired of being Halo fans. Halo is evolving and it’s doing great. Sprint fits perfectly into the game, which Halo Reach proved. If you want classic Halo go and play classic Halo, but don’t hold Halo back because of nostalgia.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > How does sprint benefit the gameplay?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Increases time engaged in combat. Helps create new strategies for team and solo play. Allows for additional map movement, and a more specific range of skill jumps ect.
> > > > > > As it was in Halo Reach, if you use sprint, you use it properly, or you suffer. If you run around sprinting all game then it’s not gonna make you a great player, same as most games.
> > > > > > What most people forget is, Halo 5 isn’t Halo 3. Halo 5 isn’t Halo 2, or CE, or any of the other games. Halo 5 is it’s own game, and thus sprint works because it is it’s own game. Halo 5 is made around sprint being a key factor, and so there is constant benefit. Halo 5’s multiplayer at it’s core is certainly the best Halo experience we’ve had yet. It’s well built and everything actually has a purpose. The skilled players are skilled, and the average players are clearly average, and this happens because of the game, not because of any other system in place, unlike previous titles.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I know you started from Reach, judging from your service record, but I disagree with you on some parts.
> > > > >
> > > > > Sprint only increases time engaged in combat when there’s either a lot of cover, or when sprint itself doesn’t have any drawbacks like what we have now. Currently, the one-on-one battles almost feel like Halo, since sprint won’t allow you to recharge your shields, but when you’re trying to find someone, right now it’s mostly empty-space and kinda slow, honestly. The battles are probably the only fast-paced thing about this game to me.
> > > > >
> > > > > I’d argue that it doesn’t create new strategies, but changes them. What was possible before isn’t possible now, and what we can do now isn’t what we could do before because of the new map designs. That combined with the mostly enclosed, but lengthy map design in 5 reduces the amount of strategies that are viable to lane flanks and viewpoint visibility variations. I could be wrong since I need to get more familiar with a lot of the maps, but that’s my first impressions after playing about 3-5 different maps in 4v4s in H5 Forge.
> > > > >
> > > > > We had skill jumps that were very specific before in CE-Reach, but I never tried them out for myself.
> > > > >
> > > > > Personally, if the game carries the name of a series, then it should try to do it justice or be familiar to fans, instead of standing on its own, like what The Coalition, Eidos Montreal, Insomniac, Square Enix, and Nintendo did with their current and upcoming titles. Final Fantasy XV is very different from the other ones, but it looks and plays like a FF title should.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I started from CE, and have played from CE to now. That part is fair enough, as it’s your experience, and if you’re having a slow gaming experience, I can’t say I can relate, because I’ve never experienced that myself in Halo 5.
> > > >
> > > > I’ll agree that the maps have changed a lot to take away some strategies. The map design in Halo 5 could do with a change up. Less Arena symmetrical maps that’s for sure, and more dedicated isometric maps, maybe even FFA ones. There are plenty of maps that heavily rely on corridor gameplay and less about managing your team, but equally there are a lot of small maps that are open and are given extra benefits if sprint is used correctly on them.
> > > > Halo 3 had plenty of skill jumps, and they were only slightly more difficult than Halo 5s, but personally I think that’s down to the frames rather than the map design or game mechanics.
> > > >
> > > > You have said something very interesting there though. About a game being familiar to the fans, instead of standing out. Every single Halo game has been different. Halo CE to Halo 2 was a massive jump and the multiplayer was different in tons of ways gameplay wise. I think the same could be said for Halo 3 to Halo Reach. I wouldn’t say Halo 5 looks like it doesn’t fit in. Most of 343’s design ideas come from Bungies original ideas for what they’d pictured things being like. Design wise I’d say 343I’s games fit in fine with the Halo universe.
> > > > To me, it seems like certain fans just don’t like change, which is fine, because it’s always been that way. The only difference I’m seeing now is that, whilst before, we all just accepted change and believed it was the best thing for Halo because Bungie were creating it, now the feedback has become less of feedback, and more just hatred or negativity towards 343 Industries. This has generally been the case since it was announced that 343 Industries took over.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for the response by the way. You make good points.
> > >
> > >
> > > Not true actually. AA’s were largely looked down on, as was bloom in Reach. 343 actually made a good first impression because of the update they made to Reach when they took over and people mostly liked Halo anniversary (even though they were pissed it didnt have the original MP). If we hated change simply because 343 made it, we wouldn’t be here getting into detail as to why we think it’s bad.
> >
> >
> > I’m aware that Halo Reach wasn’t a great game at launch, and that 343I made it the great game it was, however, what I’m saying is, if Bungie were the ones still making Halo, fans wouldn’t give anywhere near as much negativity. I don’t mean negative feedback, I mean hate and abuse. Negative feedback is standard, but a lot of people aren’t going about giving it the right way. That’s what I was saying.
>
>
> Well, they did give us Halo 4 and MCC. If Bungie did that, they’d be getting the same -Yoink-. At this point, 343 has screwed up so much and so bad that people aren’t convinced they’re just making bad decisions, they think they’re making stupid decisions. You can screw up only so much before people just assume you can’t do anything right, especially with issues like sprint that we’ve been telling them about for four years. I laid it out here after watching the video in that thread and people seemed to agree.

The first part i’ll disagree with. People worshipped Bungie, and I know that they wouldn’t of got the same level of hate or disrespect 343I is.
343I isn’t just one person, it’s a lot of people, and a lot of people who are new to running a video game franchise. They’re going to get things wrong and screw up, because they weren’t ready for such expectation. They however have been continuously listening to feedback and changing their games based on the feedback they receive. That’s why sprint is still in the game, because not everyone things sprint is an issue.

9152

Anyways guys nice discussions. I’m signing off. Pleasure chatting.

9153

> 2533274825768602;9149:
> > 2535464451695009;9146:
> > > 2533274825768602;9133:
> > > I see a lot of comments saying “This isn’t what Halo is.” or “Having “BLANK” makes this less like Halo.”
> > > Anyone care to explain what Halo actually is then as a game? or does everyone have a different view on what makes Halo halo? Because if everyone has a different view, it doesn’t matter how much complaining is done, because the perfect game for everyone will never exist.
> >
> >
> > Halo is supposed to be fun (direct from Bungie’s ViDocs), not competitive. The game’s popularity, fun factor, and above average balance just helped push the competitive scene that quickly came around.
> >
> > Halo is supposed to be about choice, choosing whether or not to use an ability or weapon, which aren’t what Halo 5’s maps are designed around. Armor Abilities weren’t required to be used in Reach (I never used anything apart from Evade and Armor Lock) and Equipment was almost always ignored in Halo 3 (I fought for the Bubble Shield and Energy Drain spawns a lot more than others). I never used the power weapons, since they were always being juggled around and my skill was a little below average, yet the team mostly came out on top (apparently I have a 1.23 Win Ratio in Reach and 1.5 in 4 on my old account. I can’t find 2 or 3’s Win/Loss stats).
> >
> > Small maps are supposed to be either enclosed and mostly within the vertical FoV (Forge World: The Cage, Battle Creek exterior), or open and vertical (Lockout (kinda), Guardian, Ascension). Medium sized maps are either almost completely open and mostly “flat” (High Ground, Zanzibar, The Pit), or has an open middle and enclosed exterior (Countdown, Boardwalk, Powerhouse). Large maps are supposed to be at least somewhat open with a variety of play spaces (Rat’s Nest, Sandtrap, Blood Gulch/Valhalla, Terminal, Headlong).
>
>
> That was Bungie’s vision for Halo though. We don’t have Bungie anymore. The direction and vision for Halo has changed. Sure Halo 5 has less fun factor, but that’s for people who struggle with competitive. Why do we focus so much on competitive? It’s because the fans said it wasn’t competitive enough when Halo 4 came out. Halo 5 is a direct result of Halo 4’s feedback (except the campaign).
>
> Halo 5 certainly offers plenty of choice. Some of Halo 5’s maps may focus on an A to B sort of gameplay, but every Halo has had a range of maps with differ on how the map is meant to be played. The problem with all those map comparisons are they’re of games that didn’t have the gameplay we do now. Halo 3 only really had a handful of decent maps in my opinion. The reason however all the maps in the game worked well was because of the game itself. It’s the same for Halo 5. Halo 5’s maps would not work on Halo 3, and vice versa. Halo 5 is catered to competitive play, and therefore so are the maps, and as such, the use of the maps and how they’re “supposed to be” has changed, because Halo is now not a casual FPS, it’s an Competitive Arena FPS.

That’s because 343 thinks the game can only be casual or competitive. They don’t realize if you just make a good base game, the competitive audience will be there as long as you make competitive settings for them and for esports. This has all been done before succesfully in most of Bungies games, but 343 just doesn’t seem to know why Halo was able to appeal to different types of players.

9154

> 2533274825768602;9151:
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> > > > > > > > 2533274819567236;9126:
> > > > > > > > > 2533274825768602;9125:
> > > > > > > > > This kind of thinking is why Halo fans are getting sick and tired of being Halo fans. Halo is evolving and it’s doing great. Sprint fits perfectly into the game, which Halo Reach proved. If you want classic Halo go and play classic Halo, but don’t hold Halo back because of nostalgia.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > How does sprint benefit the gameplay?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Increases time engaged in combat. Helps create new strategies for team and solo play. Allows for additional map movement, and a more specific range of skill jumps ect.
> > > > > > > As it was in Halo Reach, if you use sprint, you use it properly, or you suffer. If you run around sprinting all game then it’s not gonna make you a great player, same as most games.
> > > > > > > What most people forget is, Halo 5 isn’t Halo 3. Halo 5 isn’t Halo 2, or CE, or any of the other games. Halo 5 is it’s own game, and thus sprint works because it is it’s own game. Halo 5 is made around sprint being a key factor, and so there is constant benefit. Halo 5’s multiplayer at it’s core is certainly the best Halo experience we’ve had yet. It’s well built and everything actually has a purpose. The skilled players are skilled, and the average players are clearly average, and this happens because of the game, not because of any other system in place, unlike previous titles.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I know you started from Reach, judging from your service record, but I disagree with you on some parts.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sprint only increases time engaged in combat when there’s either a lot of cover, or when sprint itself doesn’t have any drawbacks like what we have now. Currently, the one-on-one battles almost feel like Halo, since sprint won’t allow you to recharge your shields, but when you’re trying to find someone, right now it’s mostly empty-space and kinda slow, honestly. The battles are probably the only fast-paced thing about this game to me.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I’d argue that it doesn’t create new strategies, but changes them. What was possible before isn’t possible now, and what we can do now isn’t what we could do before because of the new map designs. That combined with the mostly enclosed, but lengthy map design in 5 reduces the amount of strategies that are viable to lane flanks and viewpoint visibility variations. I could be wrong since I need to get more familiar with a lot of the maps, but that’s my first impressions after playing about 3-5 different maps in 4v4s in H5 Forge.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > We had skill jumps that were very specific before in CE-Reach, but I never tried them out for myself.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Personally, if the game carries the name of a series, then it should try to do it justice or be familiar to fans, instead of standing on its own, like what The Coalition, Eidos Montreal, Insomniac, Square Enix, and Nintendo did with their current and upcoming titles. Final Fantasy XV is very different from the other ones, but it looks and plays like a FF title should.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I started from CE, and have played from CE to now. That part is fair enough, as it’s your experience, and if you’re having a slow gaming experience, I can’t say I can relate, because I’ve never experienced that myself in Halo 5.
> > > > >
> > > > > I’ll agree that the maps have changed a lot to take away some strategies. The map design in Halo 5 could do with a change up. Less Arena symmetrical maps that’s for sure, and more dedicated isometric maps, maybe even FFA ones. There are plenty of maps that heavily rely on corridor gameplay and less about managing your team, but equally there are a lot of small maps that are open and are given extra benefits if sprint is used correctly on them.
> > > > > Halo 3 had plenty of skill jumps, and they were only slightly more difficult than Halo 5s, but personally I think that’s down to the frames rather than the map design or game mechanics.
> > > > >
> > > > > You have said something very interesting there though. About a game being familiar to the fans, instead of standing out. Every single Halo game has been different. Halo CE to Halo 2 was a massive jump and the multiplayer was different in tons of ways gameplay wise. I think the same could be said for Halo 3 to Halo Reach. I wouldn’t say Halo 5 looks like it doesn’t fit in. Most of 343’s design ideas come from Bungies original ideas for what they’d pictured things being like. Design wise I’d say 343I’s games fit in fine with the Halo universe.
> > > > > To me, it seems like certain fans just don’t like change, which is fine, because it’s always been that way. The only difference I’m seeing now is that, whilst before, we all just accepted change and believed it was the best thing for Halo because Bungie were creating it, now the feedback has become less of feedback, and more just hatred or negativity towards 343 Industries. This has generally been the case since it was announced that 343 Industries took over.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks for the response by the way. You make good points.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Not true actually. AA’s were largely looked down on, as was bloom in Reach. 343 actually made a good first impression because of the update they made to Reach when they took over and people mostly liked Halo anniversary (even though they were pissed it didnt have the original MP). If we hated change simply because 343 made it, we wouldn’t be here getting into detail as to why we think it’s bad.
> > >
> > >
> > > I’m aware that Halo Reach wasn’t a great game at launch, and that 343I made it the great game it was, however, what I’m saying is, if Bungie were the ones still making Halo, fans wouldn’t give anywhere near as much negativity. I don’t mean negative feedback, I mean hate and abuse. Negative feedback is standard, but a lot of people aren’t going about giving it the right way. That’s what I was saying.
> >
> >
> > Well, they did give us Halo 4 and MCC. If Bungie did that, they’d be getting the same -Yoink-. At this point, 343 has screwed up so much and so bad that people aren’t convinced they’re just making bad decisions, they think they’re making stupid decisions. You can screw up only so much before people just assume you can’t do anything right, especially with issues like sprint that we’ve been telling them about for four years. I laid it out here after watching the video in that thread and people seemed to agree.
>
>
> The first part i’ll disagree with. People worshipped Bungie, and I know that they wouldn’t of got the same level of hate or disrespect 343I is.
> 343I isn’t just one person, it’s a lot of people, and a lot of people who are new to running a video game franchise. They’re going to get things wrong and screw up, because they weren’t ready for such expectation. They however have been continuously listening to feedback and changing their games based on the feedback they receive. That’s why sprint is still in the game, because not everyone things sprint is an issue.

The thing is, they’re not new. Many (all?) of them had worked at other studios before 343 was formed. MS tried to make it seem like they were forming a team of all stars, instead we got a team of leftovers from those studios.

It’s nice that at least some people here are trying to justify sprints benefit to the gameplay, but even when 343 tried to justify it to us, their explanation largely amounted to “immersion”. Not even they could justify its place in the gameplay and that’s problem.

9155

> 2533274825768602;9152:
> Anyways guys nice discussions. I’m signing off. Pleasure chatting.

Alrighty. Good talk.

9156

[deleted]

9157

> 2533274825768602;9136:
> Sprint can increase the skill gap because it can make you a better player depending on how you use it. Simple things like the sprint-slide-jump is a good example, other examples include specific skill jumps, and using it to set up flanks that before would of taken way too long to do. The only reason sprint is a negative thing is because people are viewing it that way. If people saw the opportunities sprint creates instead of thinking it’s negative then there would be a lot more people enjoying it as a feature.

I can guarantee, any trick, any jump you can think of, sprint is not a fundamental part of it. That is, you can maintain the trick completely the same without implementing sprint as a gameplay mechanic. For example, sprint-slide jump: remove sprint, make the slide possible at base movement speed, and voila, you have a slide jump that is functionally the exact same thing. (There’s whole another discussion whether a slide as an individual mechanic is completely superfluous.) The reason sprint doesn’t contribute anything to these tricks is that it is functionally nothing but an increased movement speed. Therefore, as part of any trick, it’s functionally identical to having a base movement speed equal to sprint speed. So, as far as any tricks are concerned, sprint adds nothing new to the game.

The principle that sprint is functionally only an incerased movement speed goes even further. There are no new things sprint allows the player do. If you want to understand how sprint affects the gameplay, it’s useful to take a different perspective on how to construct a sprint mechanic. That is as follows: 1) add a level of speed above the initial base movement speed 2) remove the ability to move sideways and backwards, and shoot at that level. This is how you essentially form a sprint mechanic, and if we now consider the steps of this process separately, the first step, simply increasing speed, which can be done entirely without sprint, has all the effects pro-sprint players would want to associate with sprint. It allows you to jump further, it allows you to move faster.

It is the second step that is particular to sprint, and we can see that this second step functions by limiting the player’s abilities. And it is from this limiting process that we can understand the main—and to my knowledge to only—meaningful thing sprint adds: a choice, a compromise between being able to do things you would usually be able to do, and between being able to run faster. If you want to debate the strategic significance of sprint, you would somehow need to convince us that this single added choice is meaningful enough that sprint is worth implementing. Because as explained above, there is nothing else that sprint adds to gameplay that is exclusive to sprint alone.

> 2533274825768602;9136:
> The problem currently is the same problem that the Halo community has always had. Nostalgia.

This is a copout. You’re always free to retreat to your shell to think that everything’s perfect and there’s nothing wrong with these new additions. But please don’t use that as a discussion point. Having everything you’ve tried to explain be shrugged off as nostalgia sucks. I’m not treating you as a blind fanboy, and I’d very much appreciate for you to return the favor. We should all seek to understand the opposition, not fabricate explanations that we can fit to our narrow world view.

9158

Some change is good and some is bad. I’m in the sprint is definitely good camp. There’s advantages and disadvantages when you sprint and choice is a good thing.

I remember when people complained about the sprint jet-pack etc armour abilities in Reach but they became an awesome part of the game for me. Plus there’s something in the spartan charge, and the feeling you get when you batter someone with it, that makes it too awesome to get rid of.

9159

> 2533274825768602;9151:
> > 2533274819567236;9150:
> > > 2533274825768602;9147:
> > > > 2533274819567236;9143:
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> > > > > > 2535464451695009;9134:
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> > > > > > > > 2533274819567236;9126:
> > > > > > > > > 2533274825768602;9125:
> > > > > > > > > This kind of thinking is why Halo fans are getting sick and tired of being Halo fans. Halo is evolving and it’s doing great. Sprint fits perfectly into the game, which Halo Reach proved. If you want classic Halo go and play classic Halo, but don’t hold Halo back because of nostalgia.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > How does sprint benefit the gameplay?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Increases time engaged in combat. Helps create new strategies for team and solo play. Allows for additional map movement, and a more specific range of skill jumps ect.
> > > > > > > As it was in Halo Reach, if you use sprint, you use it properly, or you suffer. If you run around sprinting all game then it’s not gonna make you a great player, same as most games.
> > > > > > > What most people forget is, Halo 5 isn’t Halo 3. Halo 5 isn’t Halo 2, or CE, or any of the other games. Halo 5 is it’s own game, and thus sprint works because it is it’s own game. Halo 5 is made around sprint being a key factor, and so there is constant benefit. Halo 5’s multiplayer at it’s core is certainly the best Halo experience we’ve had yet. It’s well built and everything actually has a purpose. The skilled players are skilled, and the average players are clearly average, and this happens because of the game, not because of any other system in place, unlike previous titles.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I know you started from Reach, judging from your service record, but I disagree with you on some parts.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sprint only increases time engaged in combat when there’s either a lot of cover, or when sprint itself doesn’t have any drawbacks like what we have now. Currently, the one-on-one battles almost feel like Halo, since sprint won’t allow you to recharge your shields, but when you’re trying to find someone, right now it’s mostly empty-space and kinda slow, honestly. The battles are probably the only fast-paced thing about this game to me.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I’d argue that it doesn’t create new strategies, but changes them. What was possible before isn’t possible now, and what we can do now isn’t what we could do before because of the new map designs. That combined with the mostly enclosed, but lengthy map design in 5 reduces the amount of strategies that are viable to lane flanks and viewpoint visibility variations. I could be wrong since I need to get more familiar with a lot of the maps, but that’s my first impressions after playing about 3-5 different maps in 4v4s in H5 Forge.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > We had skill jumps that were very specific before in CE-Reach, but I never tried them out for myself.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Personally, if the game carries the name of a series, then it should try to do it justice or be familiar to fans, instead of standing on its own, like what The Coalition, Eidos Montreal, Insomniac, Square Enix, and Nintendo did with their current and upcoming titles. Final Fantasy XV is very different from the other ones, but it looks and plays like a FF title should.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I started from CE, and have played from CE to now. That part is fair enough, as it’s your experience, and if you’re having a slow gaming experience, I can’t say I can relate, because I’ve never experienced that myself in Halo 5.
> > > > >
> > > > > I’ll agree that the maps have changed a lot to take away some strategies. The map design in Halo 5 could do with a change up. Less Arena symmetrical maps that’s for sure, and more dedicated isometric maps, maybe even FFA ones. There are plenty of maps that heavily rely on corridor gameplay and less about managing your team, but equally there are a lot of small maps that are open and are given extra benefits if sprint is used correctly on them.
> > > > > Halo 3 had plenty of skill jumps, and they were only slightly more difficult than Halo 5s, but personally I think that’s down to the frames rather than the map design or game mechanics.
> > > > >
> > > > > You have said something very interesting there though. About a game being familiar to the fans, instead of standing out. Every single Halo game has been different. Halo CE to Halo 2 was a massive jump and the multiplayer was different in tons of ways gameplay wise. I think the same could be said for Halo 3 to Halo Reach. I wouldn’t say Halo 5 looks like it doesn’t fit in. Most of 343’s design ideas come from Bungies original ideas for what they’d pictured things being like. Design wise I’d say 343I’s games fit in fine with the Halo universe.
> > > > > To me, it seems like certain fans just don’t like change, which is fine, because it’s always been that way. The only difference I’m seeing now is that, whilst before, we all just accepted change and believed it was the best thing for Halo because Bungie were creating it, now the feedback has become less of feedback, and more just hatred or negativity towards 343 Industries. This has generally been the case since it was announced that 343 Industries took over.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks for the response by the way. You make good points.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Not true actually. AA’s were largely looked down on, as was bloom in Reach. 343 actually made a good first impression because of the update they made to Reach when they took over and people mostly liked Halo anniversary (even though they were pissed it didnt have the original MP). If we hated change simply because 343 made it, we wouldn’t be here getting into detail as to why we think it’s bad.
> > >
> > >
> > > I’m aware that Halo Reach wasn’t a great game at launch, and that 343I made it the great game it was, however, what I’m saying is, if Bungie were the ones still making Halo, fans wouldn’t give anywhere near as much negativity. I don’t mean negative feedback, I mean hate and abuse. Negative feedback is standard, but a lot of people aren’t going about giving it the right way. That’s what I was saying.
> >
> >
> > Well, they did give us Halo 4 and MCC. If Bungie did that, they’d be getting the same -Yoink-. At this point, 343 has screwed up so much and so bad that people aren’t convinced they’re just making bad decisions, they think they’re making stupid decisions. You can screw up only so much before people just assume you can’t do anything right, especially with issues like sprint that we’ve been telling them about for four years. I laid it out here after watching the video in that thread and people seemed to agree.
>
>
> The first part i’ll disagree with. People worshipped Bungie, and I know that they wouldn’t of got the same level of hate or disrespect 343I is.
> 343I isn’t just one person, it’s a lot of people, and a lot of people who are new to running a video game franchise. They’re going to get things wrong and screw up, because they weren’t ready for such expectation. They however have been continuously listening to feedback and changing their games based on the feedback they receive. That’s why sprint is still in the game, because not everyone things sprint is an issue.

Incorrect. Look at Destiny. Majority of the playerbase hates Bungie, but Bungie knows how to keep people playing.

9160

> 2533274825768602;9151:
> > 2533274819567236;9150:
> > > 2533274825768602;9147:
> > > > 2533274819567236;9143:
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> > > > > > 2535464451695009;9134:
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> > > > > > > > > 2533274825768602;9125:
> > > > > > > > > This kind of thinking is why Halo fans are getting sick and tired of being Halo fans. Halo is evolving and it’s doing great. Sprint fits perfectly into the game, which Halo Reach proved. If you want classic Halo go and play classic Halo, but don’t hold Halo back because of nostalgia.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > How does sprint benefit the gameplay?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Increases time engaged in combat. Helps create new strategies for team and solo play. Allows for additional map movement, and a more specific range of skill jumps ect.
> > > > > > > As it was in Halo Reach, if you use sprint, you use it properly, or you suffer. If you run around sprinting all game then it’s not gonna make you a great player, same as most games.
> > > > > > > What most people forget is, Halo 5 isn’t Halo 3. Halo 5 isn’t Halo 2, or CE, or any of the other games. Halo 5 is it’s own game, and thus sprint works because it is it’s own game. Halo 5 is made around sprint being a key factor, and so there is constant benefit. Halo 5’s multiplayer at it’s core is certainly the best Halo experience we’ve had yet. It’s well built and everything actually has a purpose. The skilled players are skilled, and the average players are clearly average, and this happens because of the game, not because of any other system in place, unlike previous titles.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I know you started from Reach, judging from your service record, but I disagree with you on some parts.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sprint only increases time engaged in combat when there’s either a lot of cover, or when sprint itself doesn’t have any drawbacks like what we have now. Currently, the one-on-one battles almost feel like Halo, since sprint won’t allow you to recharge your shields, but when you’re trying to find someone, right now it’s mostly empty-space and kinda slow, honestly. The battles are probably the only fast-paced thing about this game to me.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I’d argue that it doesn’t create new strategies, but changes them. What was possible before isn’t possible now, and what we can do now isn’t what we could do before because of the new map designs. That combined with the mostly enclosed, but lengthy map design in 5 reduces the amount of strategies that are viable to lane flanks and viewpoint visibility variations. I could be wrong since I need to get more familiar with a lot of the maps, but that’s my first impressions after playing about 3-5 different maps in 4v4s in H5 Forge.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > We had skill jumps that were very specific before in CE-Reach, but I never tried them out for myself.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Personally, if the game carries the name of a series, then it should try to do it justice or be familiar to fans, instead of standing on its own, like what The Coalition, Eidos Montreal, Insomniac, Square Enix, and Nintendo did with their current and upcoming titles. Final Fantasy XV is very different from the other ones, but it looks and plays like a FF title should.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I started from CE, and have played from CE to now. That part is fair enough, as it’s your experience, and if you’re having a slow gaming experience, I can’t say I can relate, because I’ve never experienced that myself in Halo 5.
> > > > >
> > > > > I’ll agree that the maps have changed a lot to take away some strategies. The map design in Halo 5 could do with a change up. Less Arena symmetrical maps that’s for sure, and more dedicated isometric maps, maybe even FFA ones. There are plenty of maps that heavily rely on corridor gameplay and less about managing your team, but equally there are a lot of small maps that are open and are given extra benefits if sprint is used correctly on them.
> > > > > Halo 3 had plenty of skill jumps, and they were only slightly more difficult than Halo 5s, but personally I think that’s down to the frames rather than the map design or game mechanics.
> > > > >
> > > > > You have said something very interesting there though. About a game being familiar to the fans, instead of standing out. Every single Halo game has been different. Halo CE to Halo 2 was a massive jump and the multiplayer was different in tons of ways gameplay wise. I think the same could be said for Halo 3 to Halo Reach. I wouldn’t say Halo 5 looks like it doesn’t fit in. Most of 343’s design ideas come from Bungies original ideas for what they’d pictured things being like. Design wise I’d say 343I’s games fit in fine with the Halo universe.
> > > > > To me, it seems like certain fans just don’t like change, which is fine, because it’s always been that way. The only difference I’m seeing now is that, whilst before, we all just accepted change and believed it was the best thing for Halo because Bungie were creating it, now the feedback has become less of feedback, and more just hatred or negativity towards 343 Industries. This has generally been the case since it was announced that 343 Industries took over.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks for the response by the way. You make good points.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Not true actually. AA’s were largely looked down on, as was bloom in Reach. 343 actually made a good first impression because of the update they made to Reach when they took over and people mostly liked Halo anniversary (even though they were pissed it didnt have the original MP). If we hated change simply because 343 made it, we wouldn’t be here getting into detail as to why we think it’s bad.
> > >
> > >
> > > I’m aware that Halo Reach wasn’t a great game at launch, and that 343I made it the great game it was, however, what I’m saying is, if Bungie were the ones still making Halo, fans wouldn’t give anywhere near as much negativity. I don’t mean negative feedback, I mean hate and abuse. Negative feedback is standard, but a lot of people aren’t going about giving it the right way. That’s what I was saying.
> >
> >
> > Well, they did give us Halo 4 and MCC. If Bungie did that, they’d be getting the same -Yoink-. At this point, 343 has screwed up so much and so bad that people aren’t convinced they’re just making bad decisions, they think they’re making stupid decisions. You can screw up only so much before people just assume you can’t do anything right, especially with issues like sprint that we’ve been telling them about for four years. I laid it out here after watching the video in that thread and people seemed to agree.
>
>
> The first part i’ll disagree with. People worshipped Bungie, and I know that they wouldn’t of got the same level of hate or disrespect 343I is.
> 343I isn’t just one person, it’s a lot of people, and a lot of people who are new to running a video game franchise. They’re going to get things wrong and screw up, because they weren’t ready for such expectation. They however have been continuously listening to feedback and changing their games based on the feedback they receive. That’s why sprint is still in the game, because not everyone things sprint is an issue.

Sprint is there, because 343 listened. Wow.

9161

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> > > > > > > 2533274825768602;9127:
> > > > > > > > 2533274819567236;9126:
> > > > > > > > > 2533274825768602;9125:
> > > > > > > > > This kind of thinking is why Halo fans are getting sick and tired of being Halo fans. Halo is evolving and it’s doing great. Sprint fits perfectly into the game, which Halo Reach proved. If you want classic Halo go and play classic Halo, but don’t hold Halo back because of nostalgia.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > How does sprint benefit the gameplay?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Increases time engaged in combat. Helps create new strategies for team and solo play. Allows for additional map movement, and a more specific range of skill jumps ect.
> > > > > > > As it was in Halo Reach, if you use sprint, you use it properly, or you suffer. If you run around sprinting all game then it’s not gonna make you a great player, same as most games.
> > > > > > > What most people forget is, Halo 5 isn’t Halo 3. Halo 5 isn’t Halo 2, or CE, or any of the other games. Halo 5 is it’s own game, and thus sprint works because it is it’s own game. Halo 5 is made around sprint being a key factor, and so there is constant benefit. Halo 5’s multiplayer at it’s core is certainly the best Halo experience we’ve had yet. It’s well built and everything actually has a purpose. The skilled players are skilled, and the average players are clearly average, and this happens because of the game, not because of any other system in place, unlike previous titles.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I know you started from Reach, judging from your service record, but I disagree with you on some parts.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sprint only increases time engaged in combat when there’s either a lot of cover, or when sprint itself doesn’t have any drawbacks like what we have now. Currently, the one-on-one battles almost feel like Halo, since sprint won’t allow you to recharge your shields, but when you’re trying to find someone, right now it’s mostly empty-space and kinda slow, honestly. The battles are probably the only fast-paced thing about this game to me.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I’d argue that it doesn’t create new strategies, but changes them. What was possible before isn’t possible now, and what we can do now isn’t what we could do before because of the new map designs. That combined with the mostly enclosed, but lengthy map design in 5 reduces the amount of strategies that are viable to lane flanks and viewpoint visibility variations. I could be wrong since I need to get more familiar with a lot of the maps, but that’s my first impressions after playing about 3-5 different maps in 4v4s in H5 Forge.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > We had skill jumps that were very specific before in CE-Reach, but I never tried them out for myself.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Personally, if the game carries the name of a series, then it should try to do it justice or be familiar to fans, instead of standing on its own, like what The Coalition, Eidos Montreal, Insomniac, Square Enix, and Nintendo did with their current and upcoming titles. Final Fantasy XV is very different from the other ones, but it looks and plays like a FF title should.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I started from CE, and have played from CE to now. That part is fair enough, as it’s your experience, and if you’re having a slow gaming experience, I can’t say I can relate, because I’ve never experienced that myself in Halo 5.
> > > > >
> > > > > I’ll agree that the maps have changed a lot to take away some strategies. The map design in Halo 5 could do with a change up. Less Arena symmetrical maps that’s for sure, and more dedicated isometric maps, maybe even FFA ones. There are plenty of maps that heavily rely on corridor gameplay and less about managing your team, but equally there are a lot of small maps that are open and are given extra benefits if sprint is used correctly on them.
> > > > > Halo 3 had plenty of skill jumps, and they were only slightly more difficult than Halo 5s, but personally I think that’s down to the frames rather than the map design or game mechanics.
> > > > >
> > > > > You have said something very interesting there though. About a game being familiar to the fans, instead of standing out. Every single Halo game has been different. Halo CE to Halo 2 was a massive jump and the multiplayer was different in tons of ways gameplay wise. I think the same could be said for Halo 3 to Halo Reach. I wouldn’t say Halo 5 looks like it doesn’t fit in. Most of 343’s design ideas come from Bungies original ideas for what they’d pictured things being like. Design wise I’d say 343I’s games fit in fine with the Halo universe.
> > > > > To me, it seems like certain fans just don’t like change, which is fine, because it’s always been that way. The only difference I’m seeing now is that, whilst before, we all just accepted change and believed it was the best thing for Halo because Bungie were creating it, now the feedback has become less of feedback, and more just hatred or negativity towards 343 Industries. This has generally been the case since it was announced that 343 Industries took over.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks for the response by the way. You make good points.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Not true actually. AA’s were largely looked down on, as was bloom in Reach. 343 actually made a good first impression because of the update they made to Reach when they took over and people mostly liked Halo anniversary (even though they were pissed it didnt have the original MP). If we hated change simply because 343 made it, we wouldn’t be here getting into detail as to why we think it’s bad.
> > >
> > >
> > > I’m aware that Halo Reach wasn’t a great game at launch, and that 343I made it the great game it was, however, what I’m saying is, if Bungie were the ones still making Halo, fans wouldn’t give anywhere near as much negativity. I don’t mean negative feedback, I mean hate and abuse. Negative feedback is standard, but a lot of people aren’t going about giving it the right way. That’s what I was saying.
> >
> >
> > Well, they did give us Halo 4 and MCC. If Bungie did that, they’d be getting the same -Yoink-. At this point, 343 has screwed up so much and so bad that people aren’t convinced they’re just making bad decisions, they think they’re making stupid decisions. You can screw up only so much before people just assume you can’t do anything right, especially with issues like sprint that we’ve been telling them about for four years. I laid it out here after watching the video in that thread and people seemed to agree.
>
>
> The first part i’ll disagree with. People worshipped Bungie, and I know that they wouldn’t of got the same level of hate or disrespect 343I is.
> 343I isn’t just one person, it’s a lot of people, and a lot of people who are new to running a video game franchise. They’re going to get things wrong and screw up, because they weren’t ready for such expectation. They however have been continuously listening to feedback and changing their games based on the feedback they receive. That’s why sprint is still in the game, because not everyone things sprint is an issue.

Before Halo 5, there were 3 polls conducted in the three largest Halo communities, r/Halo, Team Beyond, and Halo Waypoint. Both r/Halo and Halo waypoint had large majorities(around 75 percent if I remember correctly) voting against sprint. Team Beyond was almost unanimous in voting against sprint(95 percent). Yet they decided to put in the game. They did this because( in the words of Josh Holmes) because “people expect to sprint” which is clearly pandering to audiences outside of Halo and not actually taking feedback from the Halo community like you said. The other lesser reason was immersion, but anyone with a modicum of sense knows there are far more effective ways to create immersion and the feel of a spartan without affecting the gameplay. I can list out what I have in mind if you want me to elaborate.

9162

Can be as Halo Reach, that you can choose the spartan skills, but hopefully for the next Halo update or game they can add all the medals and ranks from Halo Reach.
Who did not enjoy a “Revange” or “Killjoy” medal?

By the way I am looking for people that want to join to our spartan company, I will leave the links below.

Spartan Company MXN
Join us.