The sprint discussion thread

Games Halo 5: Guardians
8983

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> > > > The reason why sprint was added to halo was to make it more fast paced. Newer generations of gamers (me included) who didn’t grow up with halo are used to fast paced games such as battlefield, cod, and just about every other fps. It’s hard for a slow paced game like the older halos and even the newer ones to attract the gamers so they added sprint. To be honest I like sprint when I don’t have it I feel like a turtle with a gun. Sure you might not like it but your not everyone. 343 also has to appeal to the newer generations as well.
> > >
> > >
> > > Flawed argument. That’s probably because you haven’t grown up with the older games, so sprint is all you know. Everyone and their mother says the new Doom game is one of the fastest paced games out now and it has no sprint. The masses don’t know what they want, they only think they know, that’s why it’s 343’s job to show you want you want. Making a fast paced game without sprint is insanely easy, but nobody - including the devs - cares to think for themselves.
> >
> >
> > Been playing Halo since CE. I know what i want sprint is fine. Everyone thinks that by removing sprint that the glory days of halo 3 will come back. Halo 5 needs to more social in the arena side.
>
>
> Doesn’t matter how long you’ve been playing or what you want, he misunderstood the purpose of sprint and how it effects the game and also how a lack of sprint effects the game. If you believe the same as him, it means you too misunderstand.

I didn’t misunderstand anything, 343 has updated halo to be a faster pace game, you still need to go for power positions, you still need to get the power weapons and you need to be tactical in how you win. You haven’t even made any statements that say how sprint has effected Halo’s game play. And to state that the masses don’t know what they want is the most arrogant statement on this forum.

8984

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8985

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8986

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> > > > > 2533274886267116;19:
> > > > > The reason why sprint was added to halo was to make it more fast paced. Newer generations of gamers (me included) who didn’t grow up with halo are used to fast paced games such as battlefield, cod, and just about every other fps. It’s hard for a slow paced game like the older halos and even the newer ones to attract the gamers so they added sprint. To be honest I like sprint when I don’t have it I feel like a turtle with a gun. Sure you might not like it but your not everyone. 343 also has to appeal to the newer generations as well.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Flawed argument. That’s probably because you haven’t grown up with the older games, so sprint is all you know. Everyone and their mother says the new Doom game is one of the fastest paced games out now and it has no sprint. The masses don’t know what they want, they only think they know, that’s why it’s 343’s job to show you want you want. Making a fast paced game without sprint is insanely easy, but nobody - including the devs - cares to think for themselves.
>
>
> And to state that the masses don’t know what they want is the most arrogant statement on this forum.

No it’s not arrogant, it is true.

I actually had a discussion relating to this subject two days ago with one of my older brothers, TV-series, or how you want to label them.

The jumping board was Deadpool, a movie so unlike most other mainstream superhero movies, which was a success. People only think they know what they want based on previous experiences.

Sopranos, who would have thought then that a series about a mafia boss who goes to see a psychologist would have become as huge as it did?

What about Breaking Bad and the premisis there?
Game of Thrones?

Of course it’s a question about quality in production, but I do not recall “the masses” chanting for a cancer-ill-crystal--Yoink!--cooking-teacher series, or a boy who goes to magic school book series, a reality show where people are shipped to an island and then vote each other out, a series depicting the life of workers in an office.

Did the masses know they wanted that?

Heck, my mother, a somewhat religious do-no-harm person was really skeptical towards the Dexter series, seriel killer hunting down wrong-doers and slicing them up into small neat packages, “He can’t justify doing that, it’s not his decision to make, it’s no one’s decision”, wait, what’s that? You went from wanting him to get caught to being afraid he gets caught? You went from being reluctant to watching the next episode to wanting to know what happens next?

8987

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> > The old halo games were great, but there isn’t enough demand for them to make it, altough it is a good idea, halo might die because of that.
>
>
> This, this, this, a million times this.
> Stop being fear of change, people.
> Sprint should stay.
> What kind of supersoldier is unable to sprint anyway?
> That’s like Altair in AC not being able to swim! -oh wait.

sigh
See, people? This is what I’m talking about.
A) Sprint was in the last three games. Removing sprint constitutes a change. So if anything, it is you that is afraid of change.
B) Wanting sprint gone is in no way the same as not wanting the game to change in other ways. There were some amazing suggestions that I remember..
C) What kind of supersoldier is unable to shoot while sprinting? Because Spartans sure as hell can.

8988

> 2533274848599184;8943:
> Alright, I’m out. Time to take another 300 page break from this thread and see whats new. It seems more and more that people will actively look for a reason to dislike the game, rather than focus on what they think it does well. I could do the same with probably all the games I have, but I choose not to. I cant understand how one mechanic can somehow ruin an entire universe worth of stories and ideas and fun, but if thats how you feel, I cant argue against it. See you once we pass 10,000 posts!

It’s not the stories, it’s the gameplay. If I were merely interested in the lore, I could always watch a let’s play or a recut of the cutscenes. No need to buy the game for that. If I am to purchase the games, then I actually want to enjoy the way they play. Nothing in (vanilla) H5G makes me do that.

8989

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> > > > > 2533274819567236;22:
> > > > > > 2533274886267116;19:
> > > > > > The reason why sprint was added to halo was to make it more fast paced. Newer generations of gamers (me included) who didn’t grow up with halo are used to fast paced games such as battlefield, cod, and just about every other fps. It’s hard for a slow paced game like the older halos and even the newer ones to attract the gamers so they added sprint. To be honest I like sprint when I don’t have it I feel like a turtle with a gun. Sure you might not like it but your not everyone. 343 also has to appeal to the newer generations as well.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Flawed argument. That’s probably because you haven’t grown up with the older games, so sprint is all you know. Everyone and their mother says the new Doom game is one of the fastest paced games out now and it has no sprint. The masses don’t know what they want, they only think they know, that’s why it’s 343’s job to show you want you want. Making a fast paced game without sprint is insanely easy, but nobody - including the devs - cares to think for themselves.
> >
> >
> > And to state that the masses don’t know what they want is the most arrogant statement on this forum.
>
>
> No it’s not arrogant, it is true.
>
> I actually had a discussion relating to this subject two days ago with one of my older brothers, TV-series, or how you want to label them.
>
> The jumping board was Deadpool, a movie so unlike most other mainstream superhero movies, which was a success. People only think they know what they want based on previous experiences.
>
> Sopranos, who would have thought then that a series about a mafia boss who goes to see a psychologist would have become as huge as it did?
>
> What about Breaking Bad and the premisis there?
> Game of Thrones?
>
> Of course it’s a question about quality in production, but I do not recall “the masses” chanting for a cancer-ill-crystal--Yoink!--cooking-teacher series, or a boy who goes to magic school book series, a reality show where people are shipped to an island and then vote each other out, a series depicting the life of workers in an office.
>
> Did the masses know they wanted that?

The masses not knowing what they want doesn’t apply to said situation because the masses have already been exposed to both.

The masses can choose between option a and b if they have tried both, just not between b and c if they haven’t tried c.

8990

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> > > 2535406954943594;8903:
> > > The old halo games were great, but there isn’t enough demand for them to make it, altough it is a good idea, halo might die because of that.
> >
> >
> > This, this, this, a million times this.
> > Stop being fear of change, people.
> > Sprint should stay.
> > What kind of supersoldier is unable to sprint anyway?
> > That’s like Altair in AC not being able to swim! -oh wait.
>
>
> sigh
> See, people? This is what I’m talking about.
> A) Sprint was in the last three games. Removing sprint constitutes a change. So if anything, it is you that is afraid of change.
> B) Wanting sprint gone is in no way the same as not wanting the game to change in other ways. There were some amazing suggestions that I remember.C) What kind of supersoldier is unable to shoot while sprinting? Because Spartans sure as hell can.

Oh Celestis you silly goosemoose.
If you’re against a mechanic and voice that opinion and only that opinion you’re afraid of change, no matter how long the mechanic has been present. No matter what other mechanics you have suggested or like that are new.

It doesn’t matter what you have suggested because it’ll still play exactly like the old decomposing Halo. Well that is if the biased-towards-you people who look at it and dislike it, and they will, chances are alsonthst they’ll not dislike it, then it’s more than likely they’ll ignore the suggestions and continue with their “don’t hate change” mantra.

8991

> 2535429357735518;8973:
> Are we really still on this? Who sits and plays Halo and thinks, “damn, this game sucks because my super soldier can run”?

I sit down and play Halo and think “Damn, this game sucks because my super soldier can’t shoot.” That is the problem: Sprint kills run’n’gun.

> 2535429357735518;8973:
> Halo has to keep up with its competition. The ability to sprint was the status quo, so Bungie adapted, and 343i ran with it. (Pun intended)

Bungie put sprint into a spinoff game. Reach was no main series title, so it was excused for trying out something different. But not only did 343 adopt a mechanic that was disliked by a majority of players, but they also forced it down our throats into the main series of numbered games.

8992

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> > And to state that the masses don’t know what they want is the most arrogant statement on this forum.
>
>
> No it’s not arrogant, it is true.
>
> [snip]

Eeeeeh… I tend to agree and disagree.
True, a lot of new trends came out of nowhere, without people even so much expecting, let alone demanding them.
But still, I think that people have a firm grasp of why it is they enjoy things.
I didn’t know I would enjoy a show about a -Yoink!- cook, but I did know I enjoy crime and drama stories.
And the same applies in reverse, imo: I am pretty sure what I don’t want.
I’ve played more than enough games with sprint, both within the Halo franchise and outside of it, to know that I simply don’t like the mechanic.
While there is some merit to what you’re saying, I think you’re generalizing just a little too much.

8993

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> > > > > 2533274866652866;8889:
> > > > > > 2533274819567236;22:
> > > > > > > 2533274886267116;19:
> > > > > > > The reason why sprint was added to halo was to make it more fast paced. Newer generations of gamers (me included) who didn’t grow up with halo are used to fast paced games such as battlefield, cod, and just about every other fps. It’s hard for a slow paced game like the older halos and even the newer ones to attract the gamers so they added sprint. To be honest I like sprint when I don’t have it I feel like a turtle with a gun. Sure you might not like it but your not everyone. 343 also has to appeal to the newer generations as well.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Flawed argument. That’s probably because you haven’t grown up with the older games, so sprint is all you know. Everyone and their mother says the new Doom game is one of the fastest paced games out now and it has no sprint. The masses don’t know what they want, they only think they know, that’s why it’s 343’s job to show you want you want. Making a fast paced game without sprint is insanely easy, but nobody - including the devs - cares to think for themselves.
> > >
> > >
> > > And to state that the masses don’t know what they want is the most arrogant statement on this forum.
> >
> >
> > No it’s not arrogant, it is true.
> >
> > I actually had a discussion relating to this subject two days ago with one of my older brothers, TV-series, or how you want to label them.
> >
> > The jumping board was Deadpool, a movie so unlike most other mainstream superhero movies, which was a success. People only think they know what they want based on previous experiences.
> >
> > Sopranos, who would have thought then that a series about a mafia boss who goes to see a psychologist would have become as huge as it did?
> >
> > What about Breaking Bad and the premisis there?
> > Game of Thrones?
> >
> > Of course it’s a question about quality in production, but I do not recall “the masses” chanting for a cancer-ill-crystal--Yoink!--cooking-teacher series, or a boy who goes to magic school book series, a reality show where people are shipped to an island and then vote each other out, a series depicting the life of workers in an office.
> >
> > Did the masses know they wanted that?
>
>
> The masses not knowing what they want doesn’t apply to said situation because the masses have already been exposed to both.
>
> The masses can choose between option a and b if they have tried both, just not between b and c if they haven’t tried c.

Who said Option C (sprintless classic derived Halo) would be option A (classic Halo)?

8994

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> > 2533274795123910;8986:
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> > > And to state that the masses don’t know what they want is the most arrogant statement on this forum.
> >
> >
> > No it’s not arrogant, it is true.
> >
> > [snip]
>
>
> Eeeeeh… I tend to agree and disagree.
> True, a lot of new trends came out of nowhere, without people even so much expecting, let alone demanding them.
> But still, I think that people have a firm grasp of why it is they enjoy things.
> I didn’t know I would enjoy a show about a -Yoink!- cook, but I did know I enjoy crime and drama stories.
> And the same applies in reverse, imo: I am pretty sure what I don’t want.
> I’ve played more than enough games with sprint, both within the Halo franchise and outside of it, to know that I simply don’t like the mechanic.
> While there is some merit to what you’re saying, I think you’re generalizing just a little too much.

You don’t know you want it, until you have it, is also a good substitute.

You can also actually start liking something you thought you’d hate. System Shock 2 gave me FPSphobia, still can’t play it, yet 2001 I faced that phobia with Halo and now I’m flying through them.

I’ve seen it a few times: “If asked what they wanted, they’d answer a faster horse”. Most likely not uttered by Henry Ford, date N/A.

It is in reference of new things.
There will be things you think you want based on your preference, but do not want when you have them.
There will be things you know you want and when you get them you were right.
There will be things you didn’t know you didn’t want, and not want it when you get it.
There will be things you don’t know you want and then want when you get them.

Nokia high-ups are said to have dismissed the idea of touchscreens for mobile phones years before Apple announced their first iPhone, with the reasoning “The masses don’t want that stuff”.

8995

OMG SPRINT IS HERE TO STAY!! A SUPER SOLDIER SHOULD BE ABLE TO SPRINT!!!

8996

> 2535420187656621;8995:
> OMG SPRINT IS HERE TO STAY!! A SUPER SOLDIER SHOULD BE ABLE TO SPRINT!!!

A super soldier is also able to shoot while sprinting.

8997

> 2533274816931642;8971:
> > 2533274825830455;8444:
> > To be frank, given an appropriately steep slope, this mechanic has always been in Halo (though probably not in a way the user you quoted was thinking). This is a great example of one of those situations where you don’t actually need to add a new ability to implement a mechanic. Using slopes to translate vertical momentum into horizontal (and, in fact, horizontal momentum into vertical) is a great idea. Its use is restricted to locations where there is an appropriately sloped surface around, and is therefore under complete control of the map designer. It creates paths on the map that aren’t immediately obvious to the player and require effort and ingenuity to find, and experience to learn.
> >
> > However, the first place to go wrong with this mechanic is to think that it should be available to the player at any moment (like sliding when it’s generally executed in shooters), and that it needs to be a separate ability. None of this is needed. In most games, surface friction disappears when the slope goes beyond a certain angle. Moreover, when falling, a collision with any slope translates vertical momentum into horizontal momentum. Using these facts, players can use natural slopes on maps (even the edges of railings are generally enough) to increase their jump distance, and by repeated jumping move faster than standard movement speed. If the map designer is aware of this, they can design maps in such a way that a player jumping from a right angle gains access to routes inaccessible by normal means. When maps are designed properly with this in mind, this simple feature of the game’s physics engine can elevate movement in the game to a whole no level without requiring the developer to specifically design any new abilities.
> >
> > What’s more, coupled with a horizontal boost mechanic, such as Evade in Reach, this feature of slopes can actually be used to significantly incerase the player’s potential jump height given an appropriate slope. For example, I challenge anyone to try to get to the top of the vents on Powerhouse using only Evade. In principle, any horizontal boost can be implemented in such a way that it makes this possible. This is actually why I hold Evade (and Thruster Pack to some extent) to higher regard than any of the other armor/Spartan abilities attempted over the years.
> >
> > Of course, all of this requires you to accept that great game design doesn’t come from designing new gameplay mechanics, but finding innovative uses for old ones, and that this is enough to evolve gameplay. But I’m afraid that this is a philosophy that’s too difficult for many people to accept.
>
>
> I just wanted to say thank you for talking about this. I want this post to see some more air, it’s one of the best one’s that I’ve read in this thread.

Thanks, though I hope we can all appreciate the irony that you say that about a post that says nothing about sprint. I often hope that this was the kind of discussion we were having. Not just the level of discussion—i.e., how movement mechanics ultimately integrate with map design and what subtle properties their physics have—but the topics we were discussing to begin with. Somehow sprint has become this symbol of new Halo gameplay. But I don’t think a sprint discussion thread would be the right place for me to rant about how uninteresting it is to discuss sprint.

8998

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> > > 2533274819567236;8892:
> > > > 2533274866652866;8889:
> > > > > 2533274819567236;22:
> > > > > > 2533274886267116;19:
> > > > > > The reason why sprint was added to halo was to make it more fast paced. Newer generations of gamers (me included) who didn’t grow up with halo are used to fast paced games such as battlefield, cod, and just about every other fps. It’s hard for a slow paced game like the older halos and even the newer ones to attract the gamers so they added sprint. To be honest I like sprint when I don’t have it I feel like a turtle with a gun. Sure you might not like it but your not everyone. 343 also has to appeal to the newer generations as well.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Flawed argument. That’s probably because you haven’t grown up with the older games, so sprint is all you know. Everyone and their mother says the new Doom game is one of the fastest paced games out now and it has no sprint. The masses don’t know what they want, they only think they know, that’s why it’s 343’s job to show you want you want. Making a fast paced game without sprint is insanely easy, but nobody - including the devs - cares to think for themselves.
> >
> >
> > And to state that the masses don’t know what they want is the most arrogant statement on this forum.
>
>
> No it’s not arrogant, it is true.
>
> I actually had a discussion relating to this subject two days ago with one of my older brothers, TV-series, or how you want to label them.
>
> The jumping board was Deadpool, a movie so unlike most other mainstream superhero movies, which was a success. People only think they know what they want based on previous experiences.
>
> Sopranos, who would have thought then that a series about a mafia boss who goes to see a psychologist would have become as huge as it did?
>
> What about Breaking Bad and the premisis there?
> Game of Thrones?
>
> Of course it’s a question about quality in production, but I do not recall “the masses” chanting for a cancer-ill-crystal--Yoink!--cooking-teacher series, or a boy who goes to magic school book series, a reality show where people are shipped to an island and then vote each other out, a series depicting the life of workers in an office.
>
> Did the masses know they wanted that?
>
> Heck, my mother, a somewhat religious do-no-harm person was really skeptical towards the Dexter series, seriel killer hunting down wrong-doers and slicing them up into small neat packages, “He can’t justify doing that, it’s not his decision to make, it’s no one’s decision”, wait, what’s that? You went from wanting him to get caught to being afraid he gets caught? You went from being reluctant to watching the next episode to wanting to know what happens next?

Ok, so Deadpool is inherently a gory comic book, people who like Deadpool would think its strange if its PG, it wouldnt make sense in a movie. Your saying that people don’t know what they want, ive played the classic halo’s which have no sprint and ive played Halo 5, i know what i want. Just because a show comes out that’s never been on before doesnt mean that people dont know what they want because they have never seen it, how absurd.

8999

> 2533274801176260;8987:
> > 2533274846988418;8920:
> > > 2535406954943594;8903:
> > > The old halo games were great, but there isn’t enough demand for them to make it, altough it is a good idea, halo might die because of that.
> >
> >
> > This, this, this, a million times this.
> > Stop being fear of change, people.
> > Sprint should stay.
> > What kind of supersoldier is unable to sprint anyway?
> > That’s like Altair in AC not being able to swim! -oh wait.
>
>
> sigh
> See, people? This is what I’m talking about.
> A) Sprint was in the last three games. Removing sprint constitutes a change. So if anything, it is you that is afraid of change.
> B) Wanting sprint gone is in no way the same as not wanting the game to change in other ways. There were some amazing suggestions that I remember…
> C) What kind of supersoldier is unable to shoot while sprinting? Because Spartans sure as hell can.

When did you start playing Halo? Halo originally had no sprint, adding it was the change. Im not affraid of the change cause ive been through it. And the reason super soldier are putting their guns down is because that allows them to run faster. You dont see Usan Bolt having his arms in a gun position.

9000

> 2533274801176260;8991:
> > 2535429357735518;8973:
> > Are we really still on this? Who sits and plays Halo and thinks, “damn, this game sucks because my super soldier can run”?
>
>
> I sit down and play Halo and think “Damn, this game sucks because my super soldier can’t shoot.” That is the problem: Sprint kills run’n’gun.
>
>
>
>
> > 2535429357735518;8973:
> > Halo has to keep up with its competition. The ability to sprint was the status quo, so Bungie adapted, and 343i ran with it. (Pun intended)
>
>
> Bungie put sprint into a spinoff game. Reach was no main series title, so it was excused for trying out something different. But not only did 343 adopt a mechanic that was disliked by a majority of players, but they also forced it down our throats into the main series of numbered games.

Majority of players i doubt that.

9001

> 2533274866652866;8999:
> When did you start playing Halo? Halo originally had no sprint, adding it was the change. Im not affraid of the change cause ive been through it. And the reason super soldier are putting their guns down is because that allows them to run faster. You dont see Usan Bolt having his arms in a gun position.

I’ve played since CE, thank you very much.
So just because it already was like this in previous games makes it not a change? So removing dual wielding wasn’t a change either? Removing loadouts? Removing bloom?
As for the “run faster” thing, I have spent the last 50 pages or so disproving this statement. You can run equally as fast with your gun up as with yout gun down. Especially if you’re a genetically and cybernetically enhanced super soldier with a power armor which does all of the heavy-lifting and moving for you.

9002

> 2533274801176260;9001:
> > 2533274866652866;8999:
> > When did you start playing Halo? Halo originally had no sprint, adding it was the change. Im not affraid of the change cause ive been through it. And the reason super soldier are putting their guns down is because that allows them to run faster. You dont see Usan Bolt having his arms in a gun position.
>
>
> I’ve played since CE, thank you very much.
> So just because it already was like this in previous games makes it not a change? So removing dual wielding wasn’t a change either? Removing loadouts? Removing bloom?
> As for the “run faster” thing, I have spent the last 50 pages or so disproving this statement. You can run equally as fast with your gun up as with yout gun down. Especially if you’re a genetically and cybernetically enhanced super soldier with a power armor which does all of the heavy-lifting and moving for you.

No you cant, have a look at the 100m sprints they are all using technique to run that fast it doesn’t matter if your a super soldier. So lets say that you could have your wish and sprint is removed what would that do for halo?