The sprint discussion thread

Games Halo 5: Guardians
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> Literally everyone here complains about change. It cant be Halo CE forever.
> For a game series that started with “Combat Evolved” it doesn’t do the second word in that very well.
> Then when it does try and change, it is hated. As expected.
> This community is predictable as clockwerk.

I think that only the really hardcore players are the one who would like to see a return of a CE style Halo. Although Halo 3 was good, I still prefer the gameplay of Halo 2 over any other game in the franchise.

Halo 2, Halo 3, and Halo 3: ODST all evolved. I don’t think that anyone wants to see Halo stagnate, but sprint and spartan abilities are a–dubious direction to evolve in.

What’s not to hate about a Halo game in which you can’t pick up grenades? I’d like Halo 5 more if it had more actual depth, but instead, it’s taken away from the depth that classic Halo had for the sake of gimmicky gameplay.

Weren’t you done here?

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> > Well here it is then. You’ve shown that Spartans are capable of both gun up and gun down running at a speed of 15 m/s. If the sprint speed shown in Halo CE/2 cutscenes make it that the Spartan is only going 7 m/s, then clearly he should be able to sprint faster than that, with his gun down no less.
> > The argument isn’t wrong. Master Chief supposedly once ran at ~ 29 m/s. Clearly they aren’t sprinting as fast as possible in the games. So let’s not call it sprint. In fact, since it’s seemingly indefinite, it can only be defined as running faster than when the gun is up. Why has that been done? Perhaps 343 felt the marginal speed difference was nicely offset by the loss of gun usage. But it’s been pretty clearly defined that A) Spartans can run with their guns down and B) They can run at speeds of past 15m/s, something never seen in game. Lore wise, this incarnation of a faster movement speed, as seen in Halo 5, fits perfectly into the lore. Call it sprint, call it running fast, hell call it an augmented movement boost, it still fits into the lore.
>
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> But not at the speeds shown in the game. The fact that the game forces the gun down and keeps the Spartans from shooting at what is essentially a fast stroll contradicts lore.
> We also have no proof that Spartans can’t shoot at said higher speeds of 29m/s or more. Just because it didn’t happen is not a reason to assume that it can’t.
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> > Just for the other point of view, The Package posits that Spartans can simultaneously aim and fire in two directions, Spartan Laser blasts can melt Covenant walls, and that Master Chief and Co are capable of acrobatic flips and leaps. Since none of those are in the actual games, I’m gonna assume they took some artistic liberties with the universe, or they made everything hyper exaggerated.
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> Or, as mentioned before, games don’t take lore into consideration but instead implement what is agreeable with the gameplay (and not limited by the engine, in the case of, say, melting doors).
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> > The cutscene can simply be explained by the fact that it was originally done in the same graphical style and settings of the game itself, so the Spartan appears to sprint but actually moves at the gameplay speed. They likely recorded that using the engine. Blur simply remastered the cutscenes.
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> Didn’t Halo 2 already have speed settings in customs? They could have set movement speed to 110%, 120% or higher for this cutscene if it were important to distinguish both types of running.
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> > Now in terms of the wind resistance argument. When I say square, I’m not saying the airflow is square. I’m saying it hits the Spartan square in the body. Because there is no arm swing, there is never any rotation in the torso. That torso rotation helps overcome a lot of wind resistance felt during running. Look or talk to any sprint/race training coach and they’ll tell you. I simply asked one of my friends who played soccer in Italy. They were told to sprint with arm swing to cause that rotation and to mainta in balance.
>
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> I never disagreed that arm swinging isn’t beneficial to maintain balance.
> As for the torso rotation, the paper that we both referenced a few pages prior mentions that the test candidates actually increased their torso rotation when avoiding arm swinging.
>
> “Our findings also demonstrate that arm swing minimizes torso rotation.”
> “Confirming our previous speculation about torso motion when running without arm swing (Arellano and Kram, 2012), we found that subjects significantly increased the peak-to-peak amplitude of both shoulder and pelvis rotation (Fig. 3). Our findings support the idea that arm swing helps to minimize torso rotation.”
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> And before you start, no, that doesn’t contradict what I said earlier. I merely claimed that it is possible to rotate your pelvis without rotating the torso, no more, no less.
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> > Finally, lore inconsistencies are always explained in some way. Ensemble Studios, when making the game, clearly spoke on the fact that they were bending the lore to give shields to Spartans. However, since HW took place after first contact, then any 343 employee needs to say, ONI made prototype shields and gave them to Red team to field test on the Spirit of Fire mission. Done.
> > Not sure what the Halo 3 terminal issues or the Guilty Spark issue is, but it’s likely that they can be explained off the same way.
>
>
> So give the Spartans in the next Halo game new armor and explain that the Gen-2 limited their movement due to some mechanic or software malfunction.
> That’s actually exactly what I’ve been saying all along: Sprint being included within the games “because it makes sense” is a bogus reason, as you could always create a scenario in which it does or doesn’t make sense.

All I was stating is that what happens in Halo 5 is possible because of both claims that are in bold. Also, it doesn’t contradict lore because it’s shown Spartans move with their guns down. All 343 did was include a slightly faster run speed, and to compensate for making that choice, you put your gun down. Where does this contradict lore? It’s limited to those two options, yes, but both the options are present and accounted for in the lore.

My point about BMS is that Spartans have essentially no torsion/shoulder rotation. It’s just leg movement. That isn’t aerodynamic at all. Halo 5 Spartans, when they sprint, shoulder/torso rotation is seen, hence the decrease in wind resistance, smaller profile area, etc.

Yes, obviously anything added into the games that augment human abilities can be explained off by Mjolnir. However, sprint is entirely plausible, and 343s reasons for why it needs to be there is as good as anyone’s. They say current players expect it. Why do i think it needs to be there? That’s where immersion ties in. That’s a different topic.

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> > > > > > > > > > Literally everyone here complains about change. It cant be Halo CE forever.
> > > > > > > > > > For a game series that started with “Combat Evolved” it doesn’t do the second word in that very well.
> > > > > > > > > > Then when it does try and change, it is hated. As expected.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > So if I become paralyzed from the neck down, I should embrace it because it’s a change?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > If you equate the change in the series currently, that I and many many others consider to be better, as being paralysed, then I don’t know what to tell you.
> > > > > > > > Reach, 3 and 5 have the best MPs in the entire series in my opinion. If you want the game to keep being another game, then just play that game instead of contributing to the people holding the series back.
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> > > > > > > The irony, it’s… it’s incredible.
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> > > > > > > > > > > Sounded to me like you think sales decreased because of story reasons. That’s not what we’re talking about (and 99% not the reason).
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I did read it all unfortunately, but it just all seemed like a massive misunderstanding not only of this topic, but of most community complaints in general over the last 6 years.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Also, Halo 4 did just about nothing innovative, so I’m not sure what you’re talking about.
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> > > > > > > > > > What Halo game has done something innovative? Genuinely curious. Was trying to figure out why CE was such a hit.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > It largely comes down to the control scheme on a console (particularly the use of twin sticks and controls for both combat and vehicles), dedicated melee and grenade buttons, the two weapon limit most (all?) console shooters have used since then, and I believe even the physics were unlike what we’d FPS had seen before. There might be more, that’s just all I can think of right now.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > It would more accurately be described as “revolutionary” when taking into consideration all the things it did well that set the stage for on future console shooters are made.
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> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Ah ok
> > > > > > > > Not the game itself, more the polish and presentation? What im getting is control scheme, grenade hotkey, universal melee on everything, and the fact that it was more advanced than games that came out before it (ill assume we’re talking about Doom, Quake, Wolfenstein, etc.)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Not trying to argue, but Ive always heard that the FPS genre was broken into a pre Half Life and post Half Life world. Never heard anything like that about Halo.
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> > > > > > > I never heard that Half Life bit. Obviously though, without Halo, I’d imagine many of the shooters on console today would not be around. Certainly not in their current forms anyway.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Well wouldnt you consider the physics of Half Life to be on par with CE? And the no cutscenes part of Half Life was fairly unique. I think its safe to say Halo was one of those all time games that people will remember, but i dont think we can equate the shooters on console today being brought about by only Halo.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I never played the first Half Life, so I couldn’t say, but yeah the lack of cutscenes was definitely one of the things people remember about it. As far as other console shooters go, I mean when you consider the two weapon limit, the grenade/melee button, and the general controls, those are huge for an FPS to feel right and accessible. Without that starting point, how many of those devs would think to bring a shooter to consoles?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Sorry was just doing some of my own research and a lot of the things you mention didnt start with Halo. Two weapon limit, grenade button did not start with Halo. The control scheme part I agree with because Halo brought it to the mainstream. The games I can remember with similar controls is probably only the original Medal of Honor, but it didnt have a melee button, or two analogs.
> > > >
> > > > So I guess its just an all purpose melee button and the general control scheme?
> > >
> > >
> > > I guess so. And maybe the type of physics in the game (particularly for vehicles and grenades), but I’m less certain of that. Which game started the two weapon limit and grenade button?
> >
> >
> > Two weapon limit early Tom Clancy games, but I’m sure there must be some other obscure ones. Grenade button is TF Classic.
> >
> > More and more, it seems like the most revolutionary thing Halo CE did was bring shooters to consoles. But, talking to my slightly older family and friends, most of then argue that they did that by dumbing down the game to fit on controller.
> >
> > Vehicles are 100% Halo. They did it the best, and they still do. But physics I would argue Half Life did really well. It was quite popular so it’s unlikely it didn’t influence CE in some way.
> >
> > Undoubtedly the best thing Halo did for the genre was twin stick analog control.
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> TF had grenades that weren’t their own weapon or was it just bound to a key?
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> When I say physics, I mean how vehicles are stable when driving, yet can be sent flying or how grenades can launch the player/NPCs and move weapons around maps. Don’t know if Half Life allowed for that kind of stuff or not.

To be honest I finished and played HL a long tone ago, but I remember the shooting physics beings spot on. Can’t remember the explosions stuff.

TF Classic had different classes of soldiers. Some classes had 2 grenade types, and the type you wanted to choose were activated with their own button. There was no need to switch to grenades and throw.

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> > > > Halo 6 could be the game EVERYONE wants by removing sprint in campaign (yes because who the -Yoink- needs TWO movement speeds in campaign???) and
> > > > arena multiplayer at first I thought a no sprint playlist might be optimal but hear me out. I pretty sure the new spartan abilities (save -Yoinking!- spartan charge) would be GENERALLY accepted in a halo game if they werent accompanied by sprint it would feel more competitive more strategic and would also still be recognizable to the fine tuned experience we got in halo 5. Warzone and customs would be a whole other beast entirely retaining ALL the features that made halo 5 successful would keep warzone great and would also allow more options for custom games, for those people that actually wanted to play in a sprint arena type setting they could actually fire up the in game custom game lobby adjust the filter and be good to go! lets face it, sprint has NO place in competitive halo and to argue that it does would just be absurd. this would allow arena maps to continue to be designed the PROPER way and please the vets and basically everyone whos willing to give it a chance and you wouldnt lose much of your sprint loving audience at all because there would still be sprint in the game it would just take a backseat!
> > > > Thoughts? :3
> > >
> > >
> > > A: Since the anti-sprint camp is only a section of the community it would not be the game everyone wants.
> > > B: There has never been a clear answer as to why people think two geared movement isn’t ‘competitive’. Nor do I consider competitiveness to be the be all and end all of Halo. It has a role, but that isn’t all halo is as h5 has shown to some degree.
> > > C: You call any position other than yours ‘absurd’ though you fail to demonstrate how.
> > > D: Loudly proclaiming that sprint has no place in ‘competitive’ halo is a claim, not an argument. You need to back up your claim if it is to be taken seriously.
> > > E: Halo 5 has map design problems, but they don’t really center around sprint. They center around size, spawning, blind corners, and lack of variety.
> > > F: As a Halo veteran with no distaste for sprint, this argument form ignorance that the loss of population overtime is due to sprint that has been flooding the forum of late is getting tiresome. You still have nothing to base the claim on. It is still the equivalent of walking into your kitchen in the morning and seeing a plate of French toast and assuming a unicorn with a glittering mane made it for you.
> >
> >
> > This
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> > Sprint is far from the be all and end all of halo. It never was and never will be. As I have said many, many times before i am pretty neutral as far as sprint goes but saying it will solve all problems is shallow and demonstrably not true.
> >
> > A number of people have pointed to the increase in FPS without sprint as some form of evidence but from what i can see Doom has performed badly to say the least.
> >
> > Its twitch rating has dropped hugely and it consistently sits below H5 most days despite being multi-platform. I realise this isnt the best measure but look at the steam numbers Here and you can see how numbers have dropped.
>
>
> yet overwatch, and counterstrike are just fine

Counter strike is not halo. Counter strike is an accurate strategic shooter with an emphasis on a slower gameplay.

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> > I’m not saying chance is bad, but the way change has been handled since Reach has been pretty poor.
>
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> God forbid they focus on characters and relationships and intriguing ideas about ethics and morality, right?
> Story > Gameplay
> In my opinion.

Then go read a book, or watch a movie. The gameplay in Halo 4’s campaign was–frustrating. Give me Sniper Alley, anything but respawning Knights.

Don’t get me wrong, I care about the next Halo title having a good story, but I don’t want it to be at the expense of gameplay.

8887

I’d like to feel like a super soldier, so I say keep sprint. To appease those who have a hard time letting go of Halo 1, 2 and 3, I say make a playlist with spartan abilities being disabled.

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> > > > > Halo 6 could be the game EVERYONE wants by removing sprint in campaign (yes because who the -Yoink- needs TWO movement speeds in campaign???) and
> > > > > arena multiplayer at first I thought a no sprint playlist might be optimal but hear me out. I pretty sure the new spartan abilities (save -Yoinking!- spartan charge) would be GENERALLY accepted in a halo game if they werent accompanied by sprint it would feel more competitive more strategic and would also still be recognizable to the fine tuned experience we got in halo 5. Warzone and customs would be a whole other beast entirely retaining ALL the features that made halo 5 successful would keep warzone great and would also allow more options for custom games, for those people that actually wanted to play in a sprint arena type setting they could actually fire up the in game custom game lobby adjust the filter and be good to go! lets face it, sprint has NO place in competitive halo and to argue that it does would just be absurd. this would allow arena maps to continue to be designed the PROPER way and please the vets and basically everyone whos willing to give it a chance and you wouldnt lose much of your sprint loving audience at all because there would still be sprint in the game it would just take a backseat!
> > > > > Thoughts? :3
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > A: Since the anti-sprint camp is only a section of the community it would not be the game everyone wants.
> > > > B: There has never been a clear answer as to why people think two geared movement isn’t ‘competitive’. Nor do I consider competitiveness to be the be all and end all of Halo. It has a role, but that isn’t all halo is as h5 has shown to some degree.
> > > > C: You call any position other than yours ‘absurd’ though you fail to demonstrate how.
> > > > D: Loudly proclaiming that sprint has no place in ‘competitive’ halo is a claim, not an argument. You need to back up your claim if it is to be taken seriously.
> > > > E: Halo 5 has map design problems, but they don’t really center around sprint. They center around size, spawning, blind corners, and lack of variety.
> > > > F: As a Halo veteran with no distaste for sprint, this argument form ignorance that the loss of population overtime is due to sprint that has been flooding the forum of late is getting tiresome. You still have nothing to base the claim on. It is still the equivalent of walking into your kitchen in the morning and seeing a plate of French toast and assuming a unicorn with a glittering mane made it for you.
> > >
> > >
> > > This
> > >
> > > Sprint is far from the be all and end all of halo. It never was and never will be. As I have said many, many times before i am pretty neutral as far as sprint goes but saying it will solve all problems is shallow and demonstrably not true.
> > >
> > > A number of people have pointed to the increase in FPS without sprint as some form of evidence but from what i can see Doom has performed badly to say the least.
> > >
> > > Its twitch rating has dropped hugely and it consistently sits below H5 most days despite being multi-platform. I realise this isnt the best measure but look at the steam numbers Here and you can see how numbers have dropped.
> >
> >
> > yet overwatch, and counterstrike are just fine
>
>
> Counter strike is not halo. Counter strike is an accurate strategic shooter with an emphasis on a slower gameplay.

Point being, sprint isn’t necessary for a game to be fun and very popular.

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> > The reason why sprint was added to halo was to make it more fast paced. Newer generations of gamers (me included) who didn’t grow up with halo are used to fast paced games such as battlefield, cod, and just about every other fps. It’s hard for a slow paced game like the older halos and even the newer ones to attract the gamers so they added sprint. To be honest I like sprint when I don’t have it I feel like a turtle with a gun. Sure you might not like it but your not everyone. 343 also has to appeal to the newer generations as well.
>
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> Flawed argument. That’s probably because you haven’t grown up with the older games, so sprint is all you know. Everyone and their mother says the new Doom game is one of the fastest paced games out now and it has no sprint. The masses don’t know what they want, they only think they know, that’s why it’s 343’s job to show you want you want. Making a fast paced game without sprint is insanely easy, but nobody - including the devs - cares to think for themselves.

Been playing Halo since CE. I know what i want sprint is fine. Everyone thinks that by removing sprint that the glory days of halo 3 will come back. Halo 5 needs to more social in the arena side.

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> > > Literally everyone here complains about change. It cant be Halo CE forever.
> > > For a game series that started with “Combat Evolved” it doesn’t do the second word in that very well.
> > > Then when it does try and change, it is hated. As expected.
> >
> >
> > So if I become paralyzed from the neck down, I should embrace it because it’s a change?
>
>
> If you equate the change in the series currently, that I and many many others consider to be better, as being paralysed, then I don’t know what to tell you.
> Reach, 3 and 5 have the best MPs in the entire series in my opinion. If you want the game to keep being another game, then just play that game instead of contributing to the people holding the series back.

What about Halo 4 and 5’s sales, combined, being less than Halo 3’s sales don’t you understand? Sprint is holding Halo back.

8891

> 2533274797091891;24:
> Maybe this is too radical, like poeple said a million times, make a classic playlist like in the old days. Lets just try maybe it is awesome

Agreed but you need to take away bullet magnetism and be able to individually reduce weapon damage from a BR and pistol to make classic playlist work.

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> > > The reason why sprint was added to halo was to make it more fast paced. Newer generations of gamers (me included) who didn’t grow up with halo are used to fast paced games such as battlefield, cod, and just about every other fps. It’s hard for a slow paced game like the older halos and even the newer ones to attract the gamers so they added sprint. To be honest I like sprint when I don’t have it I feel like a turtle with a gun. Sure you might not like it but your not everyone. 343 also has to appeal to the newer generations as well.
> >
> >
> > Flawed argument. That’s probably because you haven’t grown up with the older games, so sprint is all you know. Everyone and their mother says the new Doom game is one of the fastest paced games out now and it has no sprint. The masses don’t know what they want, they only think they know, that’s why it’s 343’s job to show you want you want. Making a fast paced game without sprint is insanely easy, but nobody - including the devs - cares to think for themselves.
>
>
> Been playing Halo since CE. I know what i want sprint is fine. Everyone thinks that by removing sprint that the glory days of halo 3 will come back. Halo 5 needs to more social in the arena side.

Doesn’t matter how long you’ve been playing or what you want, he misunderstood the purpose of sprint and how it effects the game and also how a lack of sprint effects the game. If you believe the same as him, it means you too misunderstand.

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> I grew up with the original Halo’s. If they took sprint out I wouldn’t care. If they leave it in I wouldn’t care. There is so much more to this game than sprinting. Is Halo 5 flawed? Sure. But it is also one of the best multiplayers Halo has ever provided, and thats coming from someone who spent the majority of my free time in Halo 2 and 3. Instead of complaining about one insignificant aspect of the game, try appreciating all the things it does right

Absolutely agree

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> I absolutely loathed Halo 4’s MP though, if that matters.
> It’s funny actually.
> Halo CEs story was alright, no MP
> Halo 2’s MP was rubbish, story alright
> Halo 3’s MP was awesome, story meh
> Halo 4’s story is the best in the series, MP was garbage
> Halo 5’s story was rubbish, but MP is awesome
> Reach story wasnt very interesting, but MP was awesome
> ODSTs story was also really good, and the gameplay was fun
> Going by this patttern im expecting Halo 6 to be really good in terms of story.
>
> I dont feel like sprint is a thing that ruins it, I just feel it adds to making the game better.

Hold up, Halo 4’s story is the best in the series? wut?

You do realize that CE’s multiplayer was what really took off, right? It’s the reason why the development of Halo 2’s multiplayer affected the development of single player.

How does sprint add to making the game better?

8895

> 2533274797328974;56:
> I really don’t think sprint by itself would be a big deal. I think the balanced guns along with sprint is what really makes Halo 5 play completely different from the original trilogy.
>
> In the original trilogy, a lot of emphasis was put on your utility. If you were skilled with your utility, it didn’t matter what gun your opponent had (unless it was one of the power weapons), you could have a chance to win the firefight. In Halo 5, with every gun having it’s own niche, it becomes more of a game of equipping yourself with the best loadout, rather than getting really good with aiming your utility. It completely changes what is rewarded in terms of skill. Instead of one teammate grabbing a power weapon and the rest holding a strong position on the map, it has become a race to the SMG or Storm Rifles (just using these as examples to help make my point) because they are the easiest to use, as long as you are in range. Not to mention with the AR that is now a formidable weapon, unlike it was in the original trilogy, it’s my opinion that superior skill with precision weapons is rewarded less in this game.

The time to kill needs to be incresed not the weapon balancing in halo 5 is some of the best. Halo 3 all i used was the BR they may as well not put any other guns on the map.

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> > Logically, combat situations are various and diverse. Crossing terrain in a quick amount of time could be optimal for a given situation. Likewise, certain conditions require you to walk slow and methodically, but always be combat ready. The example I gave earlier was a game of Warzone vs a game of SWAT. Most people tend to use BMS in SWAT because the twitch nature of the gameplay means you want to have your gun ready at all times. In Warzone, trying to get the drop on a sniper means moving from cover to cover while they are in smart link. That uses sprint.
> >
> > Personally, I can see the appeal of CQC button counters, but after having it in Gears of War 4 and trying it out in the Beta and what not, it just seems unnecessary.
> >
> > No hypothesis, just a reasoning that it is shown that Spartans are moving at full speed while sprinting. Maybe they also move at full speed while gun ready, but rather than make sprint speed = BMS, 343 changed it so that sprint gives a marginal speed increase to compensate for loss of gun control. All I was trying to do was point out the stupidity of trying to shoot down Spartans sprinting in the lore. Or rather, running and shooting at full speed. So far, in the games, that has never happened, and besides the games we have The Package.
> >
> > Sure, this entire argument boils down to personal opinion. I think Halo 5 plays well in line with Halo games, and I think if you took a look at the series alone, its fine to assume it would’ve reached this point regardless of external markets. People always chided 343 for copying systems that were in other popular games, but I really do think Halo would have gotten here regardless of the Destinys and CoDs. I cant really find anything unique about CE. To me it always looked like a dumbed down, slower version of Quake. Hotkey grenades? Im not sure. I didnt play lots of Quake. My first FPS was Halo CE. The point is, it seems like only after 343 took over (which is AFTER sprint was introduced) people started complaining about how Halo was not being innovative.
>
>
> You were on all kinds of terrain in Halo CE and 2, but you always had the same BMS. Levels and maps were well-designed (except Sniper Alley on Legendary) and encouraged a variety of tactics. You were punished for poor positioning, which was part of what gave classic Halo depth: it required solid strategies, which were possible because of a predictable BMS. Sprint can stay in Warzone for all I care, but if BMS is the choice for SWAT, then doesn’t that seem to indicate that sprint is an unnecessary mechanic?
>
> It would be unnecessary, just like sprint, but it would make you feel like a super soldier, right? Doubleshots were cool, BXBs weren’t.
>
> A hypothesis is an educated guess that can be tested. You’re the one who is claiming that the Master Chief was moving faster than the BMS in certain cutscenes in both Halo CE and 2, are you not? The burden of proof is upon the person who is making the positive claim.
>
> You think that sprint would’ve been a core gameplay change if CoD hadn’t ever come around? Why then did it feel like Halo 4 was trying to appeal to the CoD fanbase? I’ve played very little Quake, Wolfenstein 3-D was my first FPS, and I’ve also played DOOM, Duke Nuk’em, Turok, Goldeneye, Rainbow Six, and Medal of Honor a fair amount. Halo CE was unique because it took elements from a lot of stuff that was out there and put it all together in a way no other game had. It was also a console FPS, had an excellent campaign, decent enemy AI, and a lot of fun multiplayer gametype variants. Oh yeah, and it kind of revolutionized the FPS genre. Its legacy can be found in the many games that have adopted various aspects of the original Halo formula.
>
> Equipment was innovative, wasn’t it? Forge was a great idea, right? Firefight was a brilliant one, too, don’t you think so? Sp–Armor Abilities, sounded good on paper (granted, they worked well in custom games). Besides, Reach was a spin-off, so why does it matter whether or not sprint first appeared in it? This backlash began back then. 343i took it a step further in Halo 4 and completely changed the gameplay, which discouraged a lot of fans. Halo CE, Halo 2, Halo 3, and Halo 3: ODST were all innovative, weren’t they? Why are sprint and spartan abilities the best direction for Halo’s gameplay to evolve in?

I don’t care much for classic Halo strategies. Having grown up playing Ghost Recon and Rainbow Six, the idea of trying to constantly spawn kill people or trap them in a certain area is best left to campaign and AI.

You say sprint is fine in Warzone, and use SWAT as an example of how is it unnecessary. Is it fair for me to say that since melee is less common in Warzone than in Arena Team Slayer, is it unnecessary? You essentially accepted that it serves a purpose, and then said that unless it served a purpose at all times, it’s unnecessary. In that case, about 70% of the weapons in the games are unnecessary.

Halo 5 plays like Halo, and makes me feel like a Spartan super soldier. I think both of those are highly important.

I specifically state that they may be moving at the same speed, but 343 chose to make run speed guns down slightly faster to compensate for loss of gun use. There’s no need to prove speculation, and the different speeds exist in the games themselves.

Halo is unique for bringing FPS to console, and that’s about it. Most everything else was done before, and ignoring things like Half Life, Quake, Doom, and assuming Halo is responsible for the FPS genre is like saying that everyone before Einstein was irrelevant because only he put it all together.

Equipment is a minor change on map powerups, and all it did was take class based abilities and perks and make it into on map pickups. Forge is indeed wonderful, and highly influenced by the customization available on PC. And Firefight was at least a year after Gears of War made Horde mode, itself probably copied from something else.

Yes there was CoD influence in Halo 4. The same way there was a Quake and Doom influence on Halo CE. Nothing wrong with inspiration. They just picked the wrong market. And changed their mistakes. However, the class system was already in Halo Reach, so the “copying” started with the original creators themselves. None of the games were highly innovative, they were just a lot of fun. If you lost that fun along the way, then I’m sorry for you.

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> 2533274816931642;8890:
> > 2533274846988418;8848:
> > > 2533274819567236;8846:
> > > > 2533274846988418;8844:
> > > > Literally everyone here complains about change. It cant be Halo CE forever.
> > > > For a game series that started with “Combat Evolved” it doesn’t do the second word in that very well.
> > > > Then when it does try and change, it is hated. As expected.
> > >
> > >
> > > So if I become paralyzed from the neck down, I should embrace it because it’s a change?
> >
> >
> > If you equate the change in the series currently, that I and many many others consider to be better, as being paralysed, then I don’t know what to tell you.
> > Reach, 3 and 5 have the best MPs in the entire series in my opinion. If you want the game to keep being another game, then just play that game instead of contributing to the people holding the series back.
>
>
> What about Halo 4 and 5’s sales, combined, being less than Halo 3’s sales don’t you understand? Sprint is holding Halo back.

You’re honestly saying that sprint is the reason that Halo is declining sales-wise?

8898

It’s surprisingly impossible to find a screenshot of a Spartan from bird’s eye view, that isn’t a highly zoomed out Halo Wars or Spartan Assault. So a front picture will have to make due…

> 2533274825830455;8877:
> Still though, that’s a pretty complex question because your Spartan in any running position can’t really be said to be more pointy than it’s flat. Or rather, you can’t really say whether one position is significantly pointier than another. Not to mention giving any estimate of the difference.

Why not? Of course I can. A weapon muzzle held up horizontally is definitely pointier than a weapon held downwards or sideways.
Most of the weapons in Halo games are triangular in shape, so they divide wind vertically. At the same time, a Spartan holding a weapon at the ready has its arms “angled” (not sure if this is a word), thus also dividing the wind horizontally. The inclined arm redirects the wind to the side instead of just providing a flat resistance.
The upper body roughly forms a cone, albeit not a perfect one. So even though there is still some parts of the body that get hit head-on (which I never denied), in terms of wind resistance, this will always be more streamlined than this.
EDIT: The only exception possibly being dual wielding, which would probably have the same wind resistance as guns down, maybe even more.

> 2533274848599184;8873:
> I do agree that pointed objects have better flows than flat objects, but you aren’t accounting for orientation, size, or material/density. If I were to put a pencil in front of a large metal cube, I couldn’t rationally argue that it was creating a positive pointed flow line around the object. Likewise, where the gun-Spartan model is more comparable than the pencil-cube, it still isn’t large enough to assume that the body/torso (the part of the body that causes the most amount of wind resistance) does not feel the effects of the wind.

I’m pretty sure that I did account for orientation and size. In fact, the orientation of the weapon was my entire point to begin with. As for material and density (which essentially boils down to weight), once again it is actually advantageous, having something heavy held up front, as this shifts the center of mass forward, which -Yoink!- in achieving forward momentum.
And I never was arguing that it doesn’t feel wind resistance. But it definitely feels it less.

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> 2533274848599184;8883:
> All I was stating is that what happens in Halo 5 is possible because of both claims that are in bold. Also, it doesn’t contradict lore because it’s shown Spartans move with their guns down. All 343 did was include a slightly faster run speed, and to compensate for making that choice, you put your gun down. Where does this contradict lore? It’s limited to those two options, yes, but both the options are present and accounted for in the lore.

Spartans in lore can run and shoot at speeds up to 15m/s. Spartans in the games cannot run and shoot at speeds of 10-12m/s. How is this not a contradiction?

> 2533274848599184;8883:
> My point about BMS is that Spartans have essentially no torsion/shoulder rotation. It’s just leg movement. That isn’t aerodynamic at all. Halo 5 Spartans, when they sprint, shoulder/torso rotation is seen, hence the decrease in wind resistance, smaller profile area, etc.

Holding the gun up is more aerodynamic than not doing so. Body rotation merely compensates for this in other ways, such as energy efficiency, balance, a reduced contact surface and so forth.

> 2533274848599184;8883:
> Yes, obviously anything added into the games that augment human abilities can be explained off by Mjolnir. However, sprint is entirely plausible, and 343s reasons for why it needs to be there is as good as anyone’s. They say current players expect it. Why do i think it needs to be there? That’s where immersion ties in. That’s a different topic.

Once again, repeating myself for the n-th time, the point I am making is that sprint is not in the game “because it makes sense” but because they wanted a certain type of gameplay. You could always create a situation where it makes sense and one where it doesn’t. The current lore just happens to be on the “doesn’t” side, but they could retcon that whenever they like (even though they haven’t so far).

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> 2533274819567236;8881:
> When I say physics, I mean how vehicles are stable when driving, yet can be sent flying or how grenades can launch the player/NPCs and move weapons around maps. Don’t know if Half Life allowed for that kind of stuff or not.

Half-Life didn’t have vehicles in that sense. It had gondolas on rails, on which you could increase/decrease speed by the push of a button, but you couldn’t steer them per se. As they were on rails, they also weren’t effected by explosions. As far as I remember, neither were weapons, and if you hit an enemy with an explosion, they sometimes burst into body parts which then disappeared, but usually just dropped on the spot.

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> 2533274848599184;8897:
> > 2533274816931642;8890:
> > > 2533274846988418;8848:
> > > > 2533274819567236;8846:
> > > > > 2533274846988418;8844:
> > > > > Literally everyone here complains about change. It cant be Halo CE forever.
> > > > > For a game series that started with “Combat Evolved” it doesn’t do the second word in that very well.
> > > > > Then when it does try and change, it is hated. As expected.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > So if I become paralyzed from the neck down, I should embrace it because it’s a change?
> > >
> > >
> > > If you equate the change in the series currently, that I and many many others consider to be better, as being paralysed, then I don’t know what to tell you.
> > > Reach, 3 and 5 have the best MPs in the entire series in my opinion. If you want the game to keep being another game, then just play that game instead of contributing to the people holding the series back.
> >
> >
> > What about Halo 4 and 5’s sales, combined, being less than Halo 3’s sales don’t you understand? Sprint is holding Halo back.
>
>
> You’re honestly saying that sprint is the reason that Halo is declining sales-wise?

Well, I know that at least me and quite a few of my friends didn’t buy H5G specifically because of sprint, ADS and the lack of splitscreen. (And if splitscreen had been there, I still wouldn’t have bought the game because of its mechanics.)
Will use the same guidelines when evaluating a purchase of Halo 6, or any Halo from here on out. (Which is why I’ll probably still buy Halo Wars 2, provided it’s not as broken as the MCC.)