The sprint discussion thread

Games Halo 5: Guardians
8702

> 2535456165221911;8662:
> Arc Trooper 48, I am writing like this since there is no more space to quote.
>
> To clarify, my fisrt Halo was MCC and the first Halo game I played was Combat Evolved, then Halo 2, then Halo 3, then Halo 4. After playing Halo 3’s campaign, I became a Halo fan, which led me to purchase Halo 5. At first, I liked Halo 5, but as time passes and reading on this forums, I realized how much Halo 5 deviated from Halo’s formula and the game got stale for me (not because my realization, just got boring). I played older Halo games on MCC after I stopped playing Halo 5 and those games made me to at this state right now. I am the one of people that 343 tried to cater to the Halo franchise with Halo 5, but it was not 343 who catered me, it was Bungie’s old Halo games I played on 343’s MCC.
>
> Speaking of equipment and dual wielding, I would prefer those than Spartan Abilities. Halo was about control map to dominate enemy team. I believe Halo 3 utilized the map control and made it diverse. In original Halo games, players spawned with very basic mechanics and weapons and it was their job to pick up something on the map to gain advantage. That is what Halo was about to me. In Halo 5, players spawn with effective weapons and abilities from the start. In terms of gameplay, Halo 5 is missing many things that made Halo diverse. Instead of changing the movement system or formula, 343 should have improve it or add something to the map control, such as destructible environment, interactive environment, vehicles, power ups (more usage), dual wield, etc. (not necessarily adding those things, just instances) Spartan or Armor Abilities could have been something like that, the thing players pick up to gain advantage. Instead, players get them instantly with their spawn and makes map control pretty pointless, mean less emphasis on the pick ups, because they don’t need it due to effective start weapons and abilities that often is one hit kill.
>
> Also for the gun balance, every single weapon being useful at any situation doesn’t mean it’s balanced well.

Oh sorry. I thought I remembered you saying you started with halo 5 then back. I guess I remembered incorrectly.

Halo is still about map control and skill. The Spartan abilities don’t change that. I know you worked hard to write that post (it is very long), but we are getting to the point where everything that has been said is just being rehashed. You don’t like halo 5 and think it’s not halo, then I’m gonna say I like halo 5 and why I think it is halo. These go nowhere, and we need both sides to be happy. I’m still trying to come to a compromise, but no one will listen. It’s either their way or the highway sadly.

8703

> 2533274832130936;8641:
> > 2535468524193490;8635:
> > I would prefer to keep sprint since sprinting is practically in every game now and it would be weird to not have it.
>
>
> This is a terrible reason to keep sprint in the game

Halo is supposed to revolutionize gaming, not keep the trends going

8704

> 2533274801176260;8680:
> > 2533274848599184;8658:
> > The normal human being swings his arms while running to mantain balance. Recently, it was found that arm swing also helps reduce energy cost of running. So no, gun in front with minimal drag coefficients and what not do not help you run faster, and any drag coefficient difference is lost in the extra energy it takes to maintain your arms in that position while running.
>
>
> I am assuming you are referring to this paper?
>
> Said study measured the net metabolic power for arm swinging, hands behind your back, on your chest and behind your head to be 9.84±0.17 (Arms), 10.12±0.10 (Back), 10.71±0.14 (Chest) and 11.15±0.17 (Head). Which results in a 3%, 9% and 13% increased energy consumption.
> All these tests were performed on a treadmill, so no effects from, e.g., wind resistance (which gets reduced if you don’t constantly swing your arms back and forth) have been taken into account whatsoever.
>
> If anything this study proves that swinging your arms is not required in order to maintain balance, as compensatory pelvis rotation achieves the same goal. Energy consumption seems to be slightly higher (even though some of the participants actually redueced net metabolic power, once they stopped swinging their arms), which seems to be an acceptable tradeoff for having the arms available to do something else at the same time.

Compulsory pelvis rotation for balance would throw the aim of the arm off, or the energy required to maintain aim and positioning while maintain balance using pelvis rotation is more energy than just arm swing.

Wind resistance on a non rotating object and wind resistance on a rotating object are different. Arms swing creates a mild rotation in the xy axis of the human body, helping “cut through” wind resistance. Meanwhile, the only streamlined point of the light jog of Trilogy Halo spartans is the point of the gun, where the wind then hits a square bodied Spartan standing directly without rotation. Again, rotation of the body while keeping the arms stable for aim takes more energy than simple sprinting.

At the end of the day, it’s pretty obvious that arm swing is a large part of the human beings ability to sprint. The physics behind the balance the arm swing provides is fairly absolute and has been studied. The issue in arm swing lies in efficiency and power production. Look no further than Olympic athletes and their trainers to get your answer. Some people learn new arm swings, some keep their natural ones, but no one argues their importance.

A Spartan can sprint, as referenced by cutscene, and the natural human being uses their arms as a balance, as is a natural human instinct. Instincts that are finely tuned and highly important for humans raised to be warriors from age 6.

8705

> 2535455681930574;8701:
> > 2533274816931642;8691:
> > > 2535455681930574;8644:
> > > > 2533274801176260;8628:
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I’m not saying you can’t run with your gun up. I’m saying that you can’t run at full speed and be effective with your gun.
> >
> >
> > Of course I can’t, but a Spartan super soldier could. I mean, I don’t have implanted augmentations, for one thing, so yeah.
>
>
> Just because you’re stronger and faster doesn’t mean your body doesn’t move at all to keep an accurate aim while running full speed.

A better way of saying this is that all Mjolnir does is enhance the natural reactions of human Spartans. They are human, and arm swing is natural for humans running at full speed. Spartans sprint speed varies, and it’s completely plausible that a jogging spartan is as fast as a sprinting normal human, but a sprinting Spartan will swing his/her arms, as is customary for any human.

8706

> 2535433972425836;8703:
> > 2533274832130936;8641:
> > > 2535468524193490;8635:
> > > I would prefer to keep sprint since sprinting is practically in every game now and it would be weird to not have it.
> >
> >
> > This is a terrible reason to keep sprint in the game
>
>
> Halo is supposed to revolutionize gaming, not keep the trends going

I didn’t know there were set rules for halo to follow. Halo didn’t revolutionize gaming, just console gaming. It copied many aspects from other games like Doom, Quake, and Unreal tournament, then put it on a console.

8707

> 2533274908044735;8667:
> Why take out something that is keeping halo up with all the other games? CoD for example has sprint as a set thing, take that out and you are going back 10+ years. Sprint has been in halo for 5-6 years now when Bungie had it introduced as a Spartan Ability in Reach, everyone loved the mechanic and that it allowed quick traverse across huge maps. Why take out something that makes the game more interesting and also more difficult?

Why Halo needs to keep up with its competitors by implementing generic mechanic that was never needed? I don’t understand. As much as Halo turns into another generic shooter, there will be less incentive and reason to buy Halo. Sprint does not make the game any interesting and difficult…

8708

<mark>This post has been edited by a moderator. Please do not post spam.</mark>
*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

> 2533274848599184;8704:
> > 2533274801176260;8680:
> > > 2533274848599184;8658:
> > > The normal human being swings his arms while running to mantain balance. Recently, it was found that arm swing also helps reduce energy cost of running. So no, gun in front with minimal drag coefficients and what not do not help you run faster, and any drag coefficient difference is lost in the extra energy it takes to maintain your arms in that position while running.
> >
> >
> > I am assuming you are referring to this paper?
> > Said study measured the net metabolic power for arm swinging, hands behind your back, on your chest and behind your head to be 9.84±0.17 (Arms), 10.12±0.10 (Back), 10.71±0.14 (Chest) and 11.15±0.17 (Head). Which results in a 3%, 9% and 13% increased energy consumption.
> > All these tests were performed on a treadmill, so no effects from, e.g., wind resistance (which gets reduced if you don’t constantly swing your arms back and forth) have been taken into account whatsoever.
> > If anything this study proves that swinging your arms is not required in order to maintain balance, as compensatory pelvis rotation achieves the same goal. Energy consumption seems to be slightly higher (even though some of the participants actually redueced net metabolic power, once they stopped swinging their arms), which seems to be an acceptable tradeoff for having the arms available to do something else at the same time.
>
>
> Compulsory pelvis rotation for balance would throw the aim of the arm off, or the energy required to maintain aim and positioning while maintain balance using pelvis rotation is more energy than just arm swing.
> Wind resistance on a non rotating object and wind resistance on a rotating object are different. Arms swing creates a mild rotation in the xy axis of the human body, helping “cut through” wind resistance. Meanwhile, the only streamlined point of the light jog of Trilogy Halo spartans is the point of the gun, where the wind then hits a square bodied Spartan standing directly without rotation. Again, rotation of the body while keeping the arms stable for aim takes more energy than simple sprinting.
> At the end of the day, it’s pretty obvious that arm swing is a large part of the human beings ability to sprint. The physics behind the balance the arm swing provides is fairly absolute and has been studied. The issue in arm swing lies in efficiency and power production. Look no further than Olympic athletes and their trainers to get your answer. Some people learn new arm swings, some keep their natural ones, but no one argues their importance.
> A Spartan can sprint, as referenced by cutscene, and the natural human being uses their arms as a balance, as is a natural human instinct. Instincts that are finely tuned and highly important for humans raised to be warriors from age 6.

8709

<mark>This post has been edited by a moderator. Please do not post spam.</mark>
*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

> 2535455681930574;8702:
> > 2535456165221911;8662:
> > Arc Trooper 48, I am writing like this since there is no more space to quote.
> > To clarify, my fisrt Halo was MCC and the first Halo game I played was Combat Evolved, then Halo 2, then Halo 3, then Halo 4. After playing Halo 3’s campaign, I became a Halo fan, which led me to purchase Halo 5. At first, I liked Halo 5, but as time passes and reading on this forums, I realized how much Halo 5 deviated from Halo’s formula and the game got stale for me (not because my realization, just got boring). I played older Halo games on MCC after I stopped playing Halo 5 and those games made me to at this state right now. I am the one of people that 343 tried to cater to the Halo franchise with Halo 5, but it was not 343 who catered me, it was Bungie’s old Halo games I played on 343’s MCC.
> > Speaking of equipment and dual wielding, I would prefer those than Spartan Abilities. Halo was about control map to dominate enemy team. I believe Halo 3 utilized the map control and made it diverse. In original Halo games, players spawned with very basic mechanics and weapons and it was their job to pick up something on the map to gain advantage. That is what Halo was about to me. In Halo 5, players spawn with effective weapons and abilities from the start. In terms of gameplay, Halo 5 is missing many things that made Halo diverse. Instead of changing the movement system or formula, 343 should have improve it or add something to the map control, such as destructible environment, interactive environment, vehicles, power ups (more usage), dual wield, etc. (not necessarily adding those things, just instances) Spartan or Armor Abilities could have been something like that, the thing players pick up to gain advantage. Instead, players get them instantly with their spawn and makes map control pretty pointless, mean less emphasis on the pick ups, because they don’t need it due to effective start weapons and abilities that often is one hit kill.
> > Also for the gun balance, every single weapon being useful at any situation doesn’t mean it’s balanced well.
>
>
> Oh sorry. I thought I remembered you saying you started with halo 5 then back. I guess I remembered incorrectly.
> Halo is still about map control and skill. The Spartan abilities don’t change that. I know you worked hard to write that post (it is very long), but we are getting to the point where everything that has been said is just being rehashed. You don’t like halo 5 and think it’s not halo, then I’m gonna say I like halo 5 and why I think it is halo. These go nowhere, and we need both sides to be happy. I’m still trying to come to a compromise, but no one will listen. It’s either their way or the highway sadly.

8710

<mark>This post has been edited by a moderator. Please do not post spam.</mark>
*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

> 2535455681930574;8699:
> > 2533274816931642;8677:
> > > 2535455681930574;8621:
> > >
> >
> >
> > Yeah, I tend to respond to certain things. I usually say what I feel needs to be said.
> > True Halo fans were here before sprint. If someone is truly a fan of Halo, then he or she will still play when sprint is removed, even if he or she liked it. I got Halo 4 and Halo 5, tried them out, and didn’t like (most of) them. A hardcore fan would probably get really into the lore–in which, spartans were able to fire while running. Anyway, as for my definition, yes, I would consider myself a true Halo fan. I don’t know as much as some, but I probably know more about the Halo franchise and its lore than a lot of people who play the games–especially the ones who were lured in by Halo 4. I won’t be buying Halo 6 if it lacks split-screen, but I will be playing through the campaign at least once. I know, shocking, isn’t it? Not wanting to buy a game because I can’t spend hours screwing around with my friends without needing to be connected to the internet? I must not be a true fan of the series, right? I mean, it’s not like Halo 5 is the first Halo title to lack split-screen–for the sake of 60 FPS. I don’t need another console just to play with my sibling, do I? Concerning other posters in this thread, it isn’t like the core Halo fanbase wasn’t wary after the ****storm that was Halo 4. A lot of fans have jumped ship, don’t you think that there’s a reason for that?
> > No, you didn’t, I was explaining part of the reason why there isn’t very much overlap. Warzone Assault was pretty much all I played until–well, until Firefight came out. I mean, I played some Arena to work on commendations, but I started playing Arena a lot more after I had finished unlocking everything (and gotten Firefight Mastery). Anyway, why would Breakout getting a higher amount of RP indicate intentional poor weighting? The best Arena playlist to go for, if you’re going for max RP per hour, is SWAT. 5 minute games will get you the most RP per hour. Warzone Assault is, beyond contest, the most lucrative source of RP. That’s probably because it also demands REQs to win. But yeah, this is off-topic, so I’m going to stop there.
> > Because sprint isn’t a healthy direction for Halo to go in, obviously. That’s why this thread exists.
> > It’s called hyperbole. Halo 5 isn’t Halo, it has taken elements of other modern FPS games and tried to slap it all together in one game. This includes a lower TTK, which is the biggest difference between Halo and twitch shooters. Having similar movement mechanics further diminishes the line between Halo and modern twitch shooters. Could 343i pull it all together and make a Halo title with the new movement system that succeeded where Halo 5 failed? Sure. Would it be Halo? Probably not, because when I think of Halo, I think of outwitting my opponents, which means that they don’t get to escape my carefully calculated trap–unless they quadshot me, which is really hard to do. Halo is at the point of having an identity crisis, and there are two ways that this can end. I want to remain a fan of Halo. I care, that’s why I’ve said all these things in this thread. That’s why people who don’t play Halo 5 are on an internet forum, debating this very topic. Sprint changed everything. (And no, sprint isn’t the only problem.)
> > Evenly? As in the time between them? As in the features that they have? Or, as in something else? Because Halo 2 was much more like CE than Halo 5 was like Reach. Anyway, Halo 2 improved on the gameplay of CE and made it even more solid. I constantly played through 5-10 minute wait-times between matches, standby, and modding. I play Halo 5 regularly, because I’m trying to finish off my commendations, and build up a large stockpile so that I can hop on when Warzone Turbo is around. Otherwise, it’ll be back to other games for the most part. I’ll still get on Halo 5, but it probably won’t even be on a weekly basis. Moving on, that is a very dishonest list: the map design is a huge departure from Halo 3. The weapons are balanced reasonably well for Halo 5’s gameplay, sure, but the balance was pretty decent in Halo 3 as well. Movement options? Try changes to core gameplay, the gameplay feels nothing like it did in Halo 3; CE and Halo 2 are right next to each-other compared to Halo 3 and 5. Equipment was a very interesting direction, it provided more depth to the gameplay, unlike Armor–sorry, Spartan Abilities.
> > Let me list some more differences: Warzone, the REQ system, 500 pieces of armor (that you can’t customize as much as you could in Halo 3), pieces of armor that could only be acquired by completing certain challenges (in Halo 5, all you need is some luck, some time, or some cash), visor colors, loadout weapons with modifications, armor mods, REQ variants, a campaign where you actually play as the Master Chief, Prometheans… like, do I honestly need to go on?
>
>
> So only people who were here before sprint came are true fans, and no one else after that can be? No. Anyone can be a true fan whenever they start.
> If playing breakout got you an more RP, it would be obvious that they are trying to promote it. That’s why many thought they were trying to promote warzone by giving out more RP.
> I disagree that sprint is unhealthy.
> Every halo has taken things from other games. Halo Reach-5 aren’t the only ones. Just because they are using some similar movement ideas doesn’t mean it’s not halo.
> Wait so equipment adds depth but Spartan abilities don’t? Are you serious, or is your mind clouded with nostalgia? Maybe to you it feels nothing like it, but it feels like halo enough for me to call it halo. Every halo (besides 2/3) has had a different feel than their predecessor. There’s nothing unique about halo 5 not feeling totally like halo 3.
> I was comparing gameplay, not all the other stuff, because the other stuff doesn’t affect the feel in-game.

8711

<mark>This post has been edited by a moderator. Please do not post spam.</mark>
*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

> 2535456165221911;8707:
> > 2533274908044735;8667:
> > Why take out something that is keeping halo up with all the other games? CoD for example has sprint as a set thing, take that out and you are going back 10+ years. Sprint has been in halo for 5-6 years now when Bungie had it introduced as a Spartan Ability in Reach, everyone loved the mechanic and that it allowed quick traverse across huge maps. Why take out something that makes the game more interesting and also more difficult?
>
>
> Why Halo needs to keep up with its competitors by implementing generic mechanic that was never needed? I don’t understand. As much as Halo turns into another generic shooter, there will be less incentive and reason to buy Halo. Sprint does not make the game any interesting and difficult…

8712

> 2535455681930574;8699:
> > 2533274816931642;8677:
> > > 2535455681930574;8621:
> > >
> >
> >
> > Yeah, I tend to respond to certain things. I usually say what I feel needs to be said.
> >
> > True Halo fans were here before sprint. If someone is truly a fan of Halo, then he or she will still play when sprint is removed, even if he or she liked it. I got Halo 4 and Halo 5, tried them out, and didn’t like (most of) them. A hardcore fan would probably get really into the lore–in which, spartans were able to fire while running. Anyway, as for my definition, yes, I would consider myself a true Halo fan. I don’t know as much as some, but I probably know more about the Halo franchise and its lore than a lot of people who play the games–especially the ones who were lured in by Halo 4. I won’t be buying Halo 6 if it lacks split-screen, but I will be playing through the campaign at least once. I know, shocking, isn’t it? Not wanting to buy a game because I can’t spend hours screwing around with my friends without needing to be connected to the internet? I must not be a true fan of the series, right? I mean, it’s not like Halo 5 is the first Halo title to lack split-screen–for the sake of 60 FPS. I don’t need another console just to play with my sibling, do I? Concerning other posters in this thread, it isn’t like the core Halo fanbase wasn’t wary after the ****storm that was Halo 4. A lot of fans have jumped ship, don’t you think that there’s a reason for that?
> >
> > No, you didn’t, I was explaining part of the reason why there isn’t very much overlap. Warzone Assault was pretty much all I played until–well, until Firefight came out. I mean, I played some Arena to work on commendations, but I started playing Arena a lot more after I had finished unlocking everything (and gotten Firefight Mastery). Anyway, why would Breakout getting a higher amount of RP indicate intentional poor weighting? The best Arena playlist to go for, if you’re going for max RP per hour, is SWAT. 5 minute games will get you the most RP per hour. Warzone Assault is, beyond contest, the most lucrative source of RP. That’s probably because it also demands REQs to win. But yeah, this is off-topic, so I’m going to stop there.
> >
> > Because sprint isn’t a healthy direction for Halo to go in, obviously. That’s why this thread exists.
> >
> > It’s called hyperbole. Halo 5 isn’t Halo, it has taken elements of other modern FPS games and tried to slap it all together in one game. This includes a lower TTK, which is the biggest difference between Halo and twitch shooters. Having similar movement mechanics further diminishes the line between Halo and modern twitch shooters. Could 343i pull it all together and make a Halo title with the new movement system that succeeded where Halo 5 failed? Sure. Would it be Halo? Probably not, because when I think of Halo, I think of outwitting my opponents, which means that they don’t get to escape my carefully calculated trap–unless they quadshot me, which is really hard to do. Halo is at the point of having an identity crisis, and there are two ways that this can end. I want to remain a fan of Halo. I care, that’s why I’ve said all these things in this thread. That’s why people who don’t play Halo 5 are on an internet forum, debating this very topic. Sprint changed everything. (And no, sprint isn’t the only problem.)
> >
> > Evenly? As in the time between them? As in the features that they have? Or, as in something else? Because Halo 2 was much more like CE than Halo 5 was like Reach. Anyway, Halo 2 improved on the gameplay of CE and made it even more solid. I constantly played through 5-10 minute wait-times between matches, standby, and modding. I play Halo 5 regularly, because I’m trying to finish off my commendations, and build up a large stockpile so that I can hop on when Warzone Turbo is around. Otherwise, it’ll be back to other games for the most part. I’ll still get on Halo 5, but it probably won’t even be on a weekly basis. Moving on, that is a very dishonest list: the map design is a huge departure from Halo 3. The weapons are balanced reasonably well for Halo 5’s gameplay, sure, but the balance was pretty decent in Halo 3 as well. Movement options? Try changes to core gameplay, the gameplay feels nothing like it did in Halo 3; CE and Halo 2 are right next to each-other compared to Halo 3 and 5. Equipment was a very interesting direction, it provided more depth to the gameplay, unlike Armor–sorry, Spartan Abilities.
> >
> > Let me list some more differences: Warzone, the REQ system, 500 pieces of armor (that you can’t customize as much as you could in Halo 3), pieces of armor that could only be acquired by completing certain challenges (in Halo 5, all you need is some luck, some time, or some cash), visor colors, loadout weapons with modifications, armor mods, REQ variants, a campaign where you actually play as the Master Chief, Prometheans… like, do I honestly need to go on?
>
>
> So only people who were here before sprint came are true fans, and no one else after that can be? No. Anyone can be a true fan whenever they start.
>
> If playing breakout got you an more RP, it would be obvious that they are trying to promote it. That’s why many thought they were trying to promote warzone by giving out more RP.
>
> I disagree that sprint is unhealthy.
>
> Every halo has taken things from other games. Halo Reach-5 aren’t the only ones. Just because they are using some similar movement ideas doesn’t mean it’s not halo.
>
> Wait so equipment adds depth but Spartan abilities don’t? Are you serious, or is your mind clouded with nostalgia? Maybe to you it feels nothing like it, but it feels like halo enough for me to call it halo. Every halo (besides 2/3) has had a different feel than their predecessor. There’s nothing unique about halo 5 not feeling totally like halo 3.
>
> I was comparing gameplay, not all the other stuff, because the other stuff doesn’t affect the feel in-game.

So lets make a #WORKINGDEFINITION for game-depth. I say that game depth is basically just counters and style-options. Which means that the spartan abilities add depth. But pay attention, because this is where it gets fun.

There are two kinds of depth. There is the basic depth and then there is actual depth. Everything you add to the game increases the basic depth. But basic depth and skill are not married consepts. The way actual depth works is that the game must take skill in order for anyone to care about the depth. So look at Halo: CE. EVERYTHING in that game takes skill. Grenade jumps, nading power-ups, nading weapons, the pistol, the sniper, teleport defending, double melees, giving a random, trapping people to spawn-trap their team-mates, timing weapons, flow prediction, movement based damage, spawn prediction, the niche weapons, negating fall damage. It was all hard and that’s just off the top of my head, in reality I could write a book on why CE is si skillful. Then there is H5. What in this game takes skill? Pistol, Br, Dmr, sniper, Smg, shotgun and Ar are all easy. Spawn prediction? The melee system is easy and all the stuff they put in to the game like GP, startan charge, sprint, thruster and slide take no skill. This game is easy so who cares that you got that kill with the GP, it takes no skill. That is actual depth. Does H3 have this? Some equipment does and some doesn’t.

8713

<mark>This post has been edited by a moderator. Please do not post inappropriate content.</mark>
*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

> 2533274980895578;8636:
> > 2535468524193490;8635:
> > I would prefer to keep sprint since sprinting is practically in every game now and it would be weird to not have it.
>
>
> Same

#triggered

8714

> 2535455681930574;8700:
> I don’t think every or even most tiny details about anime should be considered canon.

Of course you don’t. Because it contradicts your point of view that sprint is somehow reconcilable with lore.
Had the speed of the Spartans in The Package been lower that sprint speed in the games you would totally have been O.K. with it being canon.

8715

> 2533274848599184;8704:
> Compulsory pelvis rotation for balance would throw the aim of the arm off, or the energy required to maintain aim and positioning while maintain balance using pelvis rotation is more energy than just arm swing.

How does a movement of the pelvis affect arm positioning? It certainly doesn’t for me…
And the energy difference is miniscule, as shown in the paper.

> 2533274848599184;8704:
> Wind resistance on a non rotating object and wind resistance on a rotating object are different. Arms swing creates a mild rotation in the xy axis of the human body, helping “cut through” wind resistance. Meanwhile, the only streamlined point of the light jog of Trilogy Halo spartans is the point of the gun, where the wind then hits a square bodied Spartan standing directly without rotation. Again, rotation of the body while keeping the arms stable for aim takes more energy than simple sprinting.

Okay, you need to tell me what you mean with “xy axis”. Where is your x-Vector pointing, where y and where z?
Wind doesn’t hit a square-shaped spartan, because the guns themselves (at least human rifles, that is: AR, BR, DMR, etc) have roughly triangle shape in vertical direction, while the angled arms that are holding the gun form a triangle shape in horizontal direction. The Spartan forms more of a pyramid in terms of wind resistance than a flat surface, cutting the drag coefficient almost in half and significantly reducing wind resistance.

> 2533274848599184;8704:
> At the end of the day, it’s pretty obvious that arm swing is a large part of the human beings ability to sprint. The physics behind the balance the arm swing provides is fairly absolute and has been studied. The issue in arm swing lies in efficiency and power production. Look no further than Olympic athletes and their trainers to get your answer. Some people learn new arm swings, some keep their natural ones, but no one argues their importance.

Nobody is denying that arm swinging -Yoink!- in running/sprinting balancing and energy efficiency. The point is that it is not the only way of achieving the same goal. Humans have adopted this way of movement over the course of millennia because, well, they didn’t need their arms for anything in the meantime, and food was scarce, so energy consumption was all the more vital. Hunting was usually done from ambush and even so, spears can be held pretty steadily with one hand while running as evidenced by those Olympic athletes you mentioned. Guns are only a very recent invention, and even the idea of movement with guns is less than 100 years old, as pre-industrial warfare was usually conducted by having two armies almost standing still while firing at each other. Even so, I already explained that holding a 3-5kg heavy rifle horizontally extended from your body puts a strain on a human soldier’s arms. But we’re not talking good ol’ -Yoink!- sapiens here, we’re talking -Yoink!- sapiens augeous, whose hydraulics-enhanced Mjolnir armor, which in and of itself already weighs half a ton, does the lifting, not the soldier inside.

> 2533274848599184;8704:
> A Spartan can sprint, as referenced by cutscene, and the natural human being uses their arms as a balance, as is a natural human instinct. Instincts that are finely tuned and highly important for humans raised to be warriors from age 6.

Spartans can also shoot accurately by sprinting as referenced by lore and contrary to natural human beings, they are trained to overcome their instincts, precisely because they are humans raised to be warriors from age 6. The very basic fight-or-flight-instinct is merely one example, as a panicking Spartan wouldn’t do much good in an interstellar war. In the same manner, they would disregard innate muscle memory of running, adopting different habits of movement, as it leaves them vulnerable on the battlefield.

8716

> 2533274943854776;8712:
> So lets make a #WORKINGDEFINITION for game-depth. I say that game depth is basically just counters and style-options. Which means that the spartan abilities add depth. But pay attention, because this is where it gets fun.

+1 for #workingdefinition
I watch that video almost every time when somebody talks about skill, depth or meta without knowing what these terms actually mean.

8717

> 2535455681930574;8702:
> I’m still trying to come to a compromise, but no one will listen. It’s either their way or the highway sadly.

So try an actual compromise, not handing classic fans half a game.
Purists have already given plenty of suggestions:

  • Sprint being a map pickup.
  • Introducing a mechanic that serves the same purpose as sprint (getting places faster) without meddling with run’n’gun. (Blink, or a charge-up thruster.)
  • Sprint-esque animations to be added to BMS when running at maximum
  • Player speed to build up slowly the longer you move forward
  • Shooting while sprinting (albeit at an increased spread)
    …and so forth.
    What you are suggesting constantly boils down to “Have a few classic playlists”.
    This is basically the same situation with Luke The Notable, where he suggested things that were completely opposite to what the classic fans want, then wondering why everybody disagreed with him and acting pissed when they criticized his arguments.
    (Not saying that you are acting pissed, but the premise is the same: You give suggestions that make things worse, then wonder why nobody likes them.)

EDIT: While I’m here, I feel compelled to point out that while it doesn’t seem that way from most of my posts, I am grateful that you are at least trying to get behind our line of thought. Enough users in this an other threads just perpetuate the same trolling behaviour, and every break from the norm is welcome.

8718

> 2533274943854776;8712:
> > 2535455681930574;8699:
> > > 2533274816931642;8677:
> > > > 2535455681930574;8621:
> > > >
>
>
> So lets make a #WORKINGDEFINITION for game-depth. I say that game depth is basically just counters and style-options. Which means that the spartan abilities add depth. But pay attention, because this is where it gets fun.
>
> There are two kinds of depth. There is the basic depth and then there is actual depth. Everything you add to the game increases the basic depth. But basic depth and skill are not married consepts. The way actual depth works is that the game must take skill in order for anyone to care about the depth. So look at Halo: CE. EVERYTHING in that game takes skill. Grenade jumps, nading power-ups, nading weapons, the pistol, the sniper, teleport defending, double melees, giving a random, trapping people to spawn-trap their team-mates, timing weapons, flow prediction, movement based damage, spawn prediction, the niche weapons, negating fall damage. It was all hard and that’s just off the top of my head, in reality I could write a book on why CE is si skillful. Then there is H5. What in this game takes skill? Pistol, Br, Dmr, sniper, Smg, shotgun and Ar are all easy. Spawn prediction? The melee system is easy and all the stuff they put in to the game like GP, startan charge, sprint, thruster and slide take no skill. This game is easy so who cares that you got that kill with the GP, it takes no skill. That is actual depth. Does H3 have this? Some equipment does and some doesn’t.

I don’t know what you’re talking about, but halo 5 takes a lot of skill (except for Spartan charge). This is the second hardest pistol to land your shots next to the ce pistol. When was the last time you played halo 5? If you go back, make sure you see that it’s not as easy as you say.

8719

> 2533274801176260;8714:
> > 2535455681930574;8700:
> > I don’t think every or even most tiny details about anime should be considered canon.
>
>
> Of course you don’t. Because it contradicts your point of view that sprint is somehow reconcilable with lore.
> Had the speed of the Spartans in The Package been lower that sprint speed in the games you would totally have been O.K. with it being canon.

I might’ve or might’ve not said anything, but I still wouldn’t agree with it.

8720

> 2533274801176260;8717:
> > 2535455681930574;8702:
> > I’m still trying to come to a compromise, but no one will listen. It’s either their way or the highway sadly.
>
>
> So try an actual compromise, not handing classic fans half a game.
> Purists have already given plenty of suggestions:
> - Sprint being a map pickup.
> - Introducing a mechanic that serves the same purpose as sprint (getting places faster) without meddling with run’n’gun. (Blink, or a charge-up thruster.)
> - Sprint-esque animations to be added to BMS when running at maximum
> - Player speed to build up slowly the longer you move forward
> - Shooting while sprinting (albeit at an increased spread)
> …and so forth.
> What you are suggesting constantly boils down to “Have a few classic playlists”.
> This is basically the same situation with Luke The Notable, where he suggested things that were completely opposite to what the classic fans want, then wondering why everybody disagreed with him and acting pissed when they criticized his arguments.
> (Not saying that you are acting pissed, but the premise is the same: You give suggestions that make things worse, then wonder why nobody likes them.)
>
> EDIT: While I’m here, I feel compelled to point out that while it doesn’t seem that way from most of my posts, I am grateful that you are at least trying to get behind our line of thought. Enough users in this an other threads just perpetuate the same trolling behaviour, and every break from the norm is welcome.

I still don’t know what’s wrong with splitting it three parts, but I do have some other ideas. One is increasing the base speed and have the maps be slightly smaller. This way, people will sprint less because they can easily get everywhere by not sprinting. Also the delta would be lowered.

My second idea is to still keep sprint, but when you sprint, you can still shoot. However, your reticle will be in full bloom, and the reticle would slightly move around to balance it.

8721

Why does a game even need sprint? Look at doom 4, hugely successful, no sprint. It just seems like an unnecessary trend to me.