The sprint discussion thread

Arc Trooper 48, I am writing like this since there is no more space to quote.

To clarify, my fisrt Halo was MCC and the first Halo game I played was Combat Evolved, then Halo 2, then Halo 3, then Halo 4. After playing Halo 3’s campaign, I became a Halo fan, which led me to purchase Halo 5. At first, I liked Halo 5, but as time passes and reading on this forums, I realized how much Halo 5 deviated from Halo’s formula and the game got stale for me (not because my realization, just got boring). I played older Halo games on MCC after I stopped playing Halo 5 and those games made me to at this state right now. I am the one of people that 343 tried to cater to the Halo franchise with Halo 5, but it was not 343 who catered me, it was Bungie’s old Halo games I played on 343’s MCC.

Speaking of equipment and dual wielding, I would prefer those than Spartan Abilities. Halo was about control map to dominate enemy team. I believe Halo 3 utilized the map control and made it diverse. In original Halo games, players spawned with very basic mechanics and weapons and it was their job to pick up something on the map to gain advantage. That is what Halo was about to me. In Halo 5, players spawn with effective weapons and abilities from the start. In terms of gameplay, Halo 5 is missing many things that made Halo diverse. Instead of changing the movement system or formula, 343 should have improve it or add something to the map control, such as destructible environment, interactive environment, vehicles, power ups (more usage), dual wield, etc. (not necessarily adding those things, just instances) Spartan or Armor Abilities could have been something like that, the thing players pick up to gain advantage. Instead, players get them instantly with their spawn and makes map control pretty pointless, mean less emphasis on the pick ups, because they don’t need it due to effective start weapons and abilities that often is one hit kill.

Also for the gun balance, every single weapon being useful at any situation doesn’t mean it’s balanced well.

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> > > > > > > > > > Let’s say you guys get your way and we get a halo game without abilities and sprint. What happens to those who like halo 5’s gameplay over the classic gameplay. Would you just want to leave them in the dust?
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> > > > > > > > > Yes.
> > > > > > > > > If they have no genuine interest in what I prefer, why would I want them around?
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> > > > > > > > Well that’s kind of a -Yoink- thing to say. Why would want to inflict the same thing that happened to you onto others?
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> > > > > > > I am here on this forum for no one else than me, I act on behalf of my own interests.
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> > > > > > > Now pray tell, why should I have an interest in trying to keep players who are not interested in what I want to play?
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> > > > > > I am pro no-sprint. However, we won’t be able to get our fellow fans on board with another no sprint Halo if we condemn them.
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> > > > > What makes you think anyone who wouldn’t be interested in a “classic” part of Halo in a Halo game split between modern and classic, would have interest in playing a “classic” Halo only? If they don’t have an interest in it, then they simply do not, if they however do, then great.
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> > > > Because if you want others to jump on board with the way you think. You have to be more tactful when discussing your point.
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> > > And this of course applies to players who will never be a part of such a discussion, but just have the game infront of them?
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> > What do you mean?
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> There is a huge number of people who will never set foot on a Halo forum. They will just have the newest Halo game infront of them and based on that game they will choose to like it or not.
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> Again, why would I want players who aren’t interested in what I like, to stay around?

You’re saying you don’t care about other Halo players who don’t like your favorite style of Halo. However, you will have to deal with “those” other players as long as you play Halo.

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> If they remove sprint it will be the best thing ever

Halo-wise possibly yes.

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> > I say sprint is fine! This Halo is different and sometimes a change is needed. I think it’s great.
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> 1. Why is sprint great.
> 2. Why was (unnecessary) change needed for something that already worked beautifully and no one complained about. Also, if “change is needed” why can’t we change back to no sprint since sprint has been the standard for 6 years now and has become stale.

I don’t know if you have read all of these comments but it seems 90% of players don’t mind the sprinting. No sprint worked fine before. Now we have sprint and it works fine. It sounds like you’re just complaining now because you can’t adapt to change. Why is sprint not great? Because it worked fine before? Great argument. Stay sad all you would like, sprint will never be removed from the game.

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> > > I say sprint is fine! This Halo is different and sometimes a change is needed. I think it’s great.
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> >
> > 1. Why is sprint great.
> > 2. Why was (unnecessary) change needed for something that already worked beautifully and no one complained about. Also, if “change is needed” why can’t we change back to no sprint since sprint has been the standard for 6 years now and has become stale.
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> I don’t know if you have read all of these comments but it seems 90% of players don’t mind the sprinting. No sprint worked fine before. Now we have sprint and it works fine. It sounds like you’re just complaining now because you can’t adapt to change. Why is sprint not great? Because it worked fine before? Great argument. Stay sad all you would like, sprint will never be removed from the game.

Sprint makes the combat flow random, because the maps are designed around movement, but not around combat. Sprint makes good positioning less rewarding and makes the game slower. On the other hand there are no good reasons to keep sprint.

Why take out something that is keeping halo up with all the other games? CoD for example has sprint as a set thing, take that out and you are going back 10+ years. Sprint has been in halo for 5-6 years now when Bungie had it introduced as a Spartan Ability in Reach, everyone loved the mechanic and that it allowed quick traverse across huge maps. Why take out something that makes the game more interesting and also more difficult?

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> Why take out something that is keeping halo up with all the other games? CoD for example has sprint as a set thing, take that out and you are going back 10+ years. Sprint has been in halo for 5-6 years now when Bungie had it introduced as a Spartan Ability in Reach, everyone loved the mechanic and that it allowed quick traverse across huge maps. Why take out something that makes the game more interesting and also more difficult?

What do you consider “keeping up with”? Because ever since sprint was added to Halo, each games sales and population have noticeably decreased.

Theres really nothing to suggest sprint is helping Halo at all.

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> Why take out something that is keeping halo up with all the other games? CoD for example has sprint as a set thing, take that out and you are going back 10+ years. Sprint has been in halo for 5-6 years now when Bungie had it introduced as a Spartan Ability in Reach, everyone loved the mechanic and that it allowed quick traverse across huge maps. Why take out something that makes the game more interesting and also more difficult?

I’m not sure what you mean with “keeping halo up”. “Everyone loved the mechanic” no they didn’t. How does sprint make the game more interesting and difficult. I think it makes the game less interesting and less difficult.

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> > Why take out something that is keeping halo up with all the other games? CoD for example has sprint as a set thing, take that out and you are going back 10+ years. Sprint has been in halo for 5-6 years now when Bungie had it introduced as a Spartan Ability in Reach, everyone loved the mechanic and that it allowed quick traverse across huge maps. Why take out something that makes the game more interesting and also more difficult?
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> What do you consider “keeping up with”? Because ever since sprint was added to Halo, each games sales and population have noticeably decreased.
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> Theres really nothing to suggest sprint is helping Halo at all.

It keeps the younger generation interested in the game. Why play a game that you can only walk in when all the other games that are AAA titles and FPS have some form of enhanced movement (CoD BO3, Titanfall, Titanfall 2 Tech Test, BF4, BF1,) it would further hurt Halo if it was removed

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> > Why take out something that is keeping halo up with all the other games? CoD for example has sprint as a set thing, take that out and you are going back 10+ years. Sprint has been in halo for 5-6 years now when Bungie had it introduced as a Spartan Ability in Reach, everyone loved the mechanic and that it allowed quick traverse across huge maps. Why take out something that makes the game more interesting and also more difficult?
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> I’m not sure what you mean with “keeping halo up”. “Everyone loved the mechanic” no they didn’t. How does sprint make the game more interesting and difficult. I think it makes the game less interesting and less difficult.

Its kinda hard to hit a moving target if they are running away and it also increases the range of which some weapons are effective (Energy Sword, Grav Hammer, Shotgun SMG) that increases your own movement and decreases your own accuracy having to adjust your aim and path your target.

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> > > Why take out something that is keeping halo up with all the other games? CoD for example has sprint as a set thing, take that out and you are going back 10+ years. Sprint has been in halo for 5-6 years now when Bungie had it introduced as a Spartan Ability in Reach, everyone loved the mechanic and that it allowed quick traverse across huge maps. Why take out something that makes the game more interesting and also more difficult?
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> >
> > What do you consider “keeping up with”? Because ever since sprint was added to Halo, each games sales and population have noticeably decreased.
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> > Theres really nothing to suggest sprint is helping Halo at all.
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> It keeps the younger generation interested in the game. Why play a game that you can only walk in when all the other games that are AAA titles and FPS have some form of enhanced movement (CoD BO3, Titanfall, Titanfall 2 Tech Test, BF4, BF1,) it would further hurt Halo if it was removed

Proof it keeps the younger generation interested in the game? Also why would they play Halo when they can do the same exact thing in any other game? Not to mention other games are more rewarding for instant gratification for killing and doing well because of low TTK and things like Killstreaks.

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> > > Why take out something that is keeping halo up with all the other games? CoD for example has sprint as a set thing, take that out and you are going back 10+ years. Sprint has been in halo for 5-6 years now when Bungie had it introduced as a Spartan Ability in Reach, everyone loved the mechanic and that it allowed quick traverse across huge maps. Why take out something that makes the game more interesting and also more difficult?
> >
> >
> > What do you consider “keeping up with”? Because ever since sprint was added to Halo, each games sales and population have noticeably decreased.
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> > Theres really nothing to suggest sprint is helping Halo at all.
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> It keeps the younger generation interested in the game. Why play a game that you can only walk in when all the other games that are AAA titles and FPS have some form of enhanced movement (CoD BO3, Titanfall, Titanfall 2 Tech Test, BF4, BF1,) it would further hurt Halo if it was removed

Considering the decline sales and population, what evidence is there it’s keeping the younger generation interested? And what evidence suggests removing it would hurt Halo further?

I love sprint and use it religiously. Keep it.

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> I love sprint and use it religiously. Keep it.

Agreed

Well we have now two Halo with Sprint and the community is totally killing itself.

How about making a Halo now without sprint?

If not, I hope that Halo 7-9 will have no sprint again.

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> Jeez bro you quoted me like 5 times. I don’t think I’ll can get to all that, but I’ll do the best I can.
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> If a true halo fan is someone who will play the game whatever, then are Zr0 or Celestis not true halo fans. A true fan will get every halo game and try it out for a while before they make their judgement. A mega true fan would play the -Yoink- outbid every halo game, regardless if they like a different style or not. Going by your definition, are you a true fan? You said in another post that quoted me on that you might not buy halo 6. So are you, or are you not? Zr0 and all those guys are probably going to be pissed that they don’t fit your definition…
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> I didn’t say anything about the req system in my reply you quoted me on, but I’ll still talk about it. I agree arena rp needs to be higher, but I don’t think it was intentionally poorly weighted. If it was intentional, breakout would give a lot of RP.
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> Why do you say leave them in the dust?
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> How is halo 5 “CoD/Titanfall?” There’s more movement options, big whup. That doesn’t make it CoD or any twitch shooter.
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> You can’t evenly compare the change from Ce-2 and reach-5, so let’s compare ce-2 and 3-5. In halo 2, the gameplay changes were stronger shields (much higher ttk), dual wielding, boarding, the BR (and carbine), map design, and vehicle boosting. Those are the ones off the top of my head and they already drastically change the gameplay. If we compare halo 3 to halo 5, the big gameplay differences are map design, weapon balance, movement options, and equipment. You see? It’s not such a big difference after all.

Yeah, I tend to respond to certain things. I usually say what I feel needs to be said.

True Halo fans were here before sprint. If someone is truly a fan of Halo, then he or she will still play when sprint is removed, even if he or she liked it. I got Halo 4 and Halo 5, tried them out, and didn’t like (most of) them. A hardcore fan would probably get really into the lore–in which, spartans were able to fire while running. Anyway, as for my definition, yes, I would consider myself a true Halo fan. I don’t know as much as some, but I probably know more about the Halo franchise and its lore than a lot of people who play the games–especially the ones who were lured in by Halo 4. I won’t be buying Halo 6 if it lacks split-screen, but I will be playing through the campaign at least once. I know, shocking, isn’t it? Not wanting to buy a game because I can’t spend hours screwing around with my friends without needing to be connected to the internet? I must not be a true fan of the series, right? I mean, it’s not like Halo 5 is the first Halo title to lack split-screen–for the sake of 60 FPS. I don’t need another console just to play with my sibling, do I? Concerning other posters in this thread, it isn’t like the core Halo fanbase wasn’t wary after the ****storm that was Halo 4. A lot of fans have jumped ship, don’t you think that there’s a reason for that?

No, you didn’t, I was explaining part of the reason why there isn’t very much overlap. Warzone Assault was pretty much all I played until–well, until Firefight came out. I mean, I played some Arena to work on commendations, but I started playing Arena a lot more after I had finished unlocking everything (and gotten Firefight Mastery). Anyway, why would Breakout getting a higher amount of RP indicate intentional poor weighting? The best Arena playlist to go for, if you’re going for max RP per hour, is SWAT. 5 minute games will get you the most RP per hour. Warzone Assault is, beyond contest, the most lucrative source of RP. That’s probably because it also demands REQs to win. But yeah, this is off-topic, so I’m going to stop there.

Because sprint isn’t a healthy direction for Halo to go in, obviously. That’s why this thread exists.

It’s called hyperbole. Halo 5 isn’t Halo, it has taken elements of other modern FPS games and tried to slap it all together in one game. This includes a lower TTK, which is the biggest difference between Halo and twitch shooters. Having similar movement mechanics further diminishes the line between Halo and modern twitch shooters. Could 343i pull it all together and make a Halo title with the new movement system that succeeded where Halo 5 failed? Sure. Would it be Halo? Probably not, because when I think of Halo, I think of outwitting my opponents, which means that they don’t get to escape my carefully calculated trap–unless they quadshot me, which is really hard to do. Halo is at the point of having an identity crisis, and there are two ways that this can end. I want to remain a fan of Halo. I care, that’s why I’ve said all these things in this thread. That’s why people who don’t play Halo 5 are on an internet forum, debating this very topic. Sprint changed everything. (And no, sprint isn’t the only problem.)

Evenly? As in the time between them? As in the features that they have? Or, as in something else? Because Halo 2 was much more like CE than Halo 5 was like Reach. Anyway, Halo 2 improved on the gameplay of CE and made it even more solid. I constantly played through 5-10 minute wait-times between matches, standby, and modding. I play Halo 5 regularly, because I’m trying to finish off my commendations, and build up a large stockpile so that I can hop on when Warzone Turbo is around. Otherwise, it’ll be back to other games for the most part. I’ll still get on Halo 5, but it probably won’t even be on a weekly basis. Moving on, that is a very dishonest list: the map design is a huge departure from Halo 3. The weapons are balanced reasonably well for Halo 5’s gameplay, sure, but the balance was pretty decent in Halo 3 as well. Movement options? Try changes to core gameplay, the gameplay feels nothing like it did in Halo 3; CE and Halo 2 are right next to each-other compared to Halo 3 and 5. Equipment was a very interesting direction, it provided more depth to the gameplay, unlike Armor–sorry, Spartan Abilities.

Let me list some more differences: Warzone, the REQ system, 500 pieces of armor (that you can’t customize as much as you could in Halo 3), pieces of armor that could only be acquired by completing certain challenges (in Halo 5, all you need is some luck, some time, or some cash), visor colors, loadout weapons with modifications, armor mods, REQ variants, a campaign where you actually play as the Master Chief, Prometheans… like, do I honestly need to go on?

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> I’m not saying you can’t run with your gun up. I’m saying that you can’t run at full speed and be effective with your gun.

Doesn’t matter, both are wrong. You can and I already did it.

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> When I think of run’n’gun, I think of the one link you sent me of the package, doom, and CoD. Halo was never a run’n’gun, it was a walk’n’gun. Yah I don’t like that analogy because it’s not true. They’re not in the same genre either. Halo 5 is an arena shooter, while CoD is a twitch shooter.

Okay, now I know you have no clue what you are talking about.
A) Watch some gameplay of high-level Quake. It is both an Arena shooter and a Twitch shooter. In fact, most Arena shooters are Twitch shooters. They are not mutually exclusive, not by a longshot.
B) Halo never was an Arena shooter, and H5G most definitely isn’t. One of the defining characteristics of Arena shooters is that you have constant offensive capabilities. Arena shooters don’t even have reload, let alone something like sprint which undermindes your means of attack for extended periods of time.
C) 7 meters per second is not walking.

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> One thing being changed won’t bring everyone back. It’s a combination of everything that will do it.

Again: Nobody will know as long as nobody tries…

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> The point of me bringing up you SPV3 was too show that sprint had no effect on the classically designed levels. I still don’t and probably never will see how sprint and Spartan abilities negatively affect the campaign.

H5G doesn’t have classically designed levels, because it doesn’t have classical gameplay. It has levels that were designed for stop and pop gameplay that the game is built around. So is the AI.

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> Halo 5’s weapon balance is already near perfect, so all they’d have to do is tweak it a bit for the new style and then alter it for the classic part. You wouldn’t only be getting 40% of a game if you could actually play the other parts of it. Plus, many social modes like grifball and action sack wouldn’t matter and have both classic and new gametypes in the playlist.

H5G’s weapon balance is near perfect for gameplay built around Spartan abilities. TTK, AA, bullet magnetism, all have been tailored for people sprinting around the maps with their weapons down. The weapon balance doesn’t work for modes wherein players are perpetually fighting. Just ask some of the guys who made the Reclaimer settings (or Evolved settings, I don’t know what they’re called by now). They repeatedly mentioned that they would have liked to individually modify the weapon’s behaviour, like spread, damage, reload times or whatever. Unfortunately, they can only boost shield strength and tweak damage output of all the guns across the board.

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> > > You really think that everyone who prefers the new gameplay comes from CoD and doesn’t care about halo? That’s really ignorant IMO.
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> > (S)he’s talking about 343. They already admitted a while back that they hired people that didn’t like Halo.
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> That was for halo 4 to bring in new ideas. That didn’t work, so they went back to Halo’s roots.

not sure if srs

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> The normal human being swings his arms while running to mantain balance. Recently, it was found that arm swing also helps reduce energy cost of running. So no, gun in front with minimal drag coefficients and what not do not help you run faster, and any drag coefficient difference is lost in the extra energy it takes to maintain your arms in that position while running.

I am assuming you are referring to this paper?

Said study measured the net metabolic power for arm swinging, hands behind your back, on your chest and behind your head to be 9.84±0.17 (Arms), 10.12±0.10 (Back), 10.71±0.14 (Chest) and 11.15±0.17 (Head). Which results in a 3%, 9% and 13% increased energy consumption.
All these tests were performed on a treadmill, so no effects from, e.g., wind resistance (which gets reduced if you don’t constantly swing your arms back and forth) have been taken into account whatsoever.

If anything this study proves that swinging your arms is not required in order to maintain balance, as compensatory pelvis rotation achieves the same goal. Energy consumption seems to be slightly higher (even though some of the participants actually redueced net metabolic power, once they stopped swinging their arms), which seems to be an acceptable tradeoff for having the arms available to do something else at the same time.

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> > > Why take out something that is keeping halo up with all the other games? CoD for example has sprint as a set thing, take that out and you are going back 10+ years. Sprint has been in halo for 5-6 years now when Bungie had it introduced as a Spartan Ability in Reach, everyone loved the mechanic and that it allowed quick traverse across huge maps. Why take out something that makes the game more interesting and also more difficult?
> >
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> > I’m not sure what you mean with “keeping halo up”. “Everyone loved the mechanic” no they didn’t. How does sprint make the game more interesting and difficult. I think it makes the game less interesting and less difficult.
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> Its kinda hard to hit a moving target if they are running away and it also increases the range of which some weapons are effective (Energy Sword, Grav Hammer, Shotgun SMG) that increases your own movement and decreases your own accuracy having to adjust your aim and path your target.

It’s not hard to hit sprinting players in the game. The bullet magnetism is very high and I know what direction they’re locked in.