The sprint discussion thread

[C0RRuPTT]

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> > > > > > > > > > > > Halo 3
> > > > > > > > > > > > 50 - Sandtrap (longways)
> > > > > > > > > > > > 40 - Sandtrap (shortways)
> > > > > > > > > > > > 57 - Valhalla
> > > > > > > > > > > > 30 - Heretic
> > > > > > > > > > > > 16 - The Pit
> > > > > > > > > > > > 39 - Standoff
> > > > > > > > > > > > Halo 2
> > > > > > > > > > > > 45 - Headlong
> > > > > > > > > > > > Halo 5
> > > > > > > > > > > > 27 - Guillotine (Headlong) - sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > > > 35 - Guillotine (Headlong) - walking
> > > > > > > > > > > > 27.5 - Truth (Heretic) -sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > > > 37 - Truth (Heretic) - walking
> > > > > > > > > > > > 29.5 - Deadlock (Standoff) - sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > > > 38 - Deadlock (Standoff) - walking
> > > > > > > > > > > > 39 - Altar-Sandtrap (Remake) longways - Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > > > 50 -Altar- Sandtrap (Remake) longways - Walking
> > > > > > > > > > > > 20 - Altar-Sandtrap (Remake) shortways - Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > > > 25 - Altar0Sandtrap (Remake) shortways - Walking
> > > > > > > > > > > > 46 - Viking -Valhalla (Remake) - Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > > > 60 - Viking - Valhalla (Remake) - Walking
> > > > > > > > > > > > 9 - Simulation -The Pit (Remake) - Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > > > 11.5 - Simulation -The Pit (Remake) - Walking
> > > > > > > > > > > > Halo 4
> > > > > > > > > > > > 34 - Ragnarok (Valhalla) - Unlimited Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > > > 41.5 - Ragnarok (Valhalla) - Limited Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > > > 55 - Ragnarok (Valhalla) - Walking
> > > > > > > > > > > > 9 - Pitfall (The Pit) - Unlimited Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > > > 10.5 - Pitfall (The Pit) - Limited Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > > > 14.5 - Pitfall (The Pit) - Walking
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > So overall it depends on the map, but it takes about the same time to walk across most of the maps, sometimes faster, sometimes slower, in Halo 4 and 5 as it did in 2 and 3. Sprint legitimately speeds up the time it takes to get from one point to another on a map. It is not just an illusion.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Good job.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Are these averages from many runs on one map? Say ten runs. Or did you run once flawless run and take the time? From what point of the maps, to where on the same map are you running? Do you take a special route where you can’t make it in a straight line?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Also, Ragnarok and Pitfall are 1:1 remakes of Valhalla and The Pit.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Now then, let’s start.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Illusion, yes and no. If you take a map, design it around base movement speed only, and then after that throw in a sprint function that increases your speed by 30%, then you cross the map faster. Even if we take a sprint game with maps designed around sprint, in that case you get across a map faster than not sprinting.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > However, considering that maps are designed around the mechanics present in a game, you’ll see that it is the map designer who is in charge of how fast you get places, regardless of what mechanics are present. Sprint only allows you to cross a map relatively faster than not sprinting in the same game. Clamber does not allow you to reach places that are not intended to be reached, outside of glitches and oversights of course.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Let’s take Haven, Halo 4’s smallest launch map and compare travel times with Halo 3’s Guardian. Quite consistent in travel times despite Halo 4’s sprint speed being faster than Halo 3’s BMS. Time wise they’re close, in size, far from close.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > In this case, Haven is rather large for being Halo 4’s smallest launch map, only Skyline is smaller, and not by a lot, compared to atleast Guardian in Halo 3.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > So, you get places as fast as the map designer intends you to, in this sense, sprint is an illusion.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > As for Pitfall and Ragnarok, i343 deemed that these maps were managable with sprint. Valhalla being a vehicle map and The Pit not being small in the first place. Neither of them however played like their previous counter parts.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > The map size increase is generally meant for smaller maps, not large BTB maps feautring vehicles, because vehicles themselves allow players to cross a map even faster than sprint. Take a fast vehicle on any map and you’ll reach any place faster than an infantry person.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > PS: How is truth in the same league as Headlong??? I don’t recall truth being that large or headlong that small. I don’t recall any times in the leagues of 20 seconds when a moderator made a more thorough run through of truth and compared it to midship.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Truth and heretic I did by walking across the entire outer ring, those 2 I didn’t just go from point a to b. I started and ended in the same spot. And I did each run once or twice cuz I didn’t have a ton of time. But I took the same path for the various maps. I don’t know how to explain where I started and ended in each map, not all were straight lines. If I knew how to shoe you my Xbox dvr I would.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Those are interesting times. I think the next step would be to look at the times from objective to objective.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The idea that sprint is an illusion isn’t that sprinting doesn’t make you fast (we know it does) but that maps have grown larger to compensate.
> > > > > > > > > This I’m not sure of. I don’t think we’re seeing too many huge maps, but rather a lack of small ones. So the average size has increased but the objective sizes of maps might still fall into a similar range.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > If we measure the time it takes to get from one objective to another in Halo 2 and 3, then consider the distances from one objective to another in 4 and 5 will we see a significant difference? Remakes should not be compared to originals as we know that sprinting changes speeds. Rather, we look at the overall trends in maps sizes by comparing Flag to Flag.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > You must understand that there are two kinds of sprint. In Reach, if you moved from one end of Battle Canyon to the other using sprint, you’d get there five seconds faster than you did in H2 or Ce. But in H5 if you go from Red base to Blue base on Truth using sprint, you’d get there one second faster than you did in H2. So in H5 you are moving at the Base movement speed of halos 1-3 when sprinting. Which means that sprint doesn’t actually make you go faster.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Secondly, the map size. What is the biggest 4v4/2v2 map in H5? Because why would they make the maps bigger if they added sprint? I never understood that. Why must the maps grow along with speed?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > what? you are not moving at the base speed of halo 3.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Rather the ratios of speed and distance are proportional resulting in the same times (or roughly the same).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Sprint absolutely makes you faster. The question is whether or not maps have been thusly scaled to maintain similar travel times, making the addition of sprint less meaningful.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > But it is a matter of perspective. You might say that the maps have been made bigger, but I might say that we have been made slower. It is the same thing.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > no. 4 miles in 4 minutes is very different than 400 miles in 4 minutes.
> > > > > distance = speedtime
> > > > > 4 miles=60 mph4 minutes
> > > > > 400 miles =6000 mph*4 minutes
> > > > >
> > > > > Even though 4/60 is equal to 400/6000 and times are the same.
> > > > >
> > > > > Sprinting makes you faster. That is fact.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > How can you proof that the distances in H5 are bigger? If you’re getting from point A to point B using sprint as fast as you were in H2, than the BMS is lower and sprinting makes you go as fast as you walked in H1-3.
> > >
> > >
> > > How can you look at Truth and not be able to tell it’s massive compared to Midship?
> >
> >
> > I was just arguing that we have been made smaller and slower, which is why Truth looks bigger.
>
>
> I know. And thats not true.
>
> Size in the game is relative. Spartans to warthogs to tanks… All fundamentally the same.
>
> Go to Halo 3 and drop a hog into… Heretic (is that the name?) and then do the same in H5 truth. The maps, Spartans are not smaller, as they retain the same relative size to all other objects in the game. Truth is then just a bigger map than Heretic and likely Midship.

Truth’s gameplay is so much more spread out than Midship and Heretic due to sprint. It detracts from the quality of the firefights.

[Naqser]

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> > > > > Let’s say you guys get your way and we get a halo game without abilities and sprint. What happens to those who like halo 5’s gameplay over the classic gameplay. Would you just want to leave them in the dust?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Yes.
> > > > If they have no genuine interest in what I prefer, why would I want them around?
> > >
> > >
> > > Well that’s kind of a -Yoink- thing to say. Why would want to inflict the same thing that happened to you onto others?
> >
> >
> > I am here on this forum for no one else than me, I act on behalf of my own interests.
> >
> > Now pray tell, why should I have an interest in trying to keep players who are not interested in what I want to play?
>
>
> I am pro no-sprint. However, we won’t be able to get our fellow fans on board with another no sprint Halo if we condemn them.

What makes you think anyone who wouldn’t be interested in a “classic” part of Halo in a Halo game split between modern and classic, would have interest in playing a “classic” Halo only? If they don’t have an interest in it, then they simply do not, if they however do, then great.

[pajama_dad]

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> > > > > > Those animations didn’t even make it out of the alpha. In the behind the scenes video that I watched, it was explained that Bungie always started with the story, and then designed the rest of the game around it. As for what that means with regard to the existence of sprint animations, I guess it’s up to you to infer what that means. Who knows, maybe it had something to do with hardware limitations, and the possible implementation of sprint would’ve been so limited that it was deemed an unnecessary use of resources. But then, there’s Occam’s Razor.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Could you link this video to me? Because quite honestly, I’ve read the exact opposite. If I recall correctly it was in an interview with german magazine “Gamestar” from april 2000, where they said: “… denn die Kampagne für den Einzelspielermodus wird nach alter Bungie Tradition erst zum schluss festgelegt”, roughly translated “…because, according to old Bungie-tradition, the campaign for single player is only established in the end.”
> > > > > Unfortunately all scans of this interview are down, and I only found one guy quoting this text passage in a forums. If need be, I could try and find the magazine myself (if I even own it), but that might take a while, as all my old stuff is in my parent’s house.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Upon watching it again, I’ve decided that I might’ve misinterpreted the context. However, is it reasonable to assume that sprint wasn’t necessary for Halo 2’s story? Why didn’t Bungie’s documentary mention sprint? Sprint has effected the art and design of Halo 5, so there has to be some reason as to why it was scrapped so early on in Halo 2’s development. The main two that come to mind, for me, are:
> > > >
> > > > 1.) Hardware limitations, this could be anything from the amount of potential scripts that need to be ran, to rendering issues.
> > > > 2.) It altered the gameplay, which wasn’t what Bungie wanted, for one reason or another.
> > > >
> > > > There are other possibilities, e.g. story telling, level design, the design of the music, etc.; however, the two that I listed above seem like the most likely explanations, IMO.
> > > >
> > > > Anyway, if what you say is true, then that means that multiplayer was designed before the campaign, right? If that’s the case, then sprint being cut in the alpha is–interesting. Maybe it provided too many challenges to Halo 2’s development, I’m not sure how they would change the core gameplay without having to change other aspects of the game as well. Maybe it was just an idea that was only entertained and then put away. As for it resurfacing, and being a reality, in Reach, that’s another point that deserves further discussion.
> > > >
> > > > I also found this to be really interesting.
> > >
> > >
> > > Concepts are tested and scrapped all time. They can’t all be winners, so when they’re not they get cut. There’s no reason to bring up a mechanic that didn’t even make it past the testing phase. A Halo 2 animator said as far as he could recall it didn’t even come up during development in Halo 3, so they hadn’t even tried to test it. If it was something they were forced to cut in Halo 2 for reasons other than gameplay, I’d imagine they very likely would’ve tried it out again. Obviously, with Halo 2 they didn’t realize how much time they needed, so they would’ve been more prepared during Halo 3’s development in that sense.
> > >
> > > At best, even if it didn’t cause gameplay problems, it would still suggest that it didn’t benefit the game enough to include.
> >
> >
> > at best? Maybe yeah, but you would have to define such a benefit to the game. If it was included later was that then a benefit to the game?
> >
> > After the success of halo 2 and the failures of halo 2 do you think bumgie was really looking to revolutionize their game? The exclusion of a spint mechanic could have been from continued creative pressures to finish the product fully and on time. Equipment were little more than new weapons and new weapons are par for the development cycle, whereas the inclusion of sprint would have meant a lot of work with animations at the least, and hours of testing elsewhere. Its exclusion might have benefitted the game by giving them the time to finish.
> >
> > With Reach, Bungie was more free to do what they wanted. Doesn’t that suggest sprint was something they might have wanted to do, but were under too much pressure to fully realize it?
>
>
> Do you think that sprint would’ve taken as much time and effort as adding equipment?
>
> The jetpack was an idea that existed long before sprint did. Why wouldn’t Bungie have tried to make that a reality before sprint?

I think it might have taken longer. Every weapon would need to be animated in a sprint both in the first person and the third for both Spartans and Elites (unless they gave the different models different abilities, which doesn’t seem like a choice they would have made then). Different weapons might have needed different sprinting animations. I haven’t looked at reach in a while… but how does a spartan sprint with a Rocket launcher compared to a pistol? They would have had to decide how sprinting affected melee and shooting- does it cancel the sprint? Does it not work until you release forward on the stick.

Equipment has its own animations , but they are mostly self contained. Sprint affects every other weapon animation.

As for jetpack. Why wouldn’t they implement an idea? Because it takes time. Maybe they haven’t found a solution to a potential problem. Maybe they didn’t like how it would have worked in the control scheme.

Why wouldn’t they do it before sprint? Um… because of [reasons]. Is this really the question you think matters? Maybe they thought sprint worked better and so tried it in Halo 2 and then decided against… and then decided to try all the ideas in Reach. Perhaps you should simply state something rather than use a rhetorical question.

[pajama_dad]

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> > > > > > > > > > > > > Halo 3
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 50 - Sandtrap (longways)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 40 - Sandtrap (shortways)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 57 - Valhalla
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 30 - Heretic
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 16 - The Pit
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 39 - Standoff
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Halo 2
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 45 - Headlong
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Halo 5
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 27 - Guillotine (Headlong) - sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 35 - Guillotine (Headlong) - walking
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 27.5 - Truth (Heretic) -sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 37 - Truth (Heretic) - walking
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 29.5 - Deadlock (Standoff) - sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 38 - Deadlock (Standoff) - walking
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 39 - Altar-Sandtrap (Remake) longways - Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 50 -Altar- Sandtrap (Remake) longways - Walking
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 20 - Altar-Sandtrap (Remake) shortways - Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 25 - Altar0Sandtrap (Remake) shortways - Walking
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 46 - Viking -Valhalla (Remake) - Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 60 - Viking - Valhalla (Remake) - Walking
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 9 - Simulation -The Pit (Remake) - Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 11.5 - Simulation -The Pit (Remake) - Walking
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Halo 4
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 34 - Ragnarok (Valhalla) - Unlimited Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 41.5 - Ragnarok (Valhalla) - Limited Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 55 - Ragnarok (Valhalla) - Walking
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 9 - Pitfall (The Pit) - Unlimited Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 10.5 - Pitfall (The Pit) - Limited Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 14.5 - Pitfall (The Pit) - Walking
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > So overall it depends on the map, but it takes about the same time to walk across most of the maps, sometimes faster, sometimes slower, in Halo 4 and 5 as it did in 2 and 3. Sprint legitimately speeds up the time it takes to get from one point to another on a map. It is not just an illusion.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Good job.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Are these averages from many runs on one map? Say ten runs. Or did you run once flawless run and take the time? From what point of the maps, to where on the same map are you running? Do you take a special route where you can’t make it in a straight line?
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Also, Ragnarok and Pitfall are 1:1 remakes of Valhalla and The Pit.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Now then, let’s start.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Illusion, yes and no. If you take a map, design it around base movement speed only, and then after that throw in a sprint function that increases your speed by 30%, then you cross the map faster. Even if we take a sprint game with maps designed around sprint, in that case you get across a map faster than not sprinting.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > However, considering that maps are designed around the mechanics present in a game, you’ll see that it is the map designer who is in charge of how fast you get places, regardless of what mechanics are present. Sprint only allows you to cross a map relatively faster than not sprinting in the same game. Clamber does not allow you to reach places that are not intended to be reached, outside of glitches and oversights of course.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Let’s take Haven, Halo 4’s smallest launch map and compare travel times with Halo 3’s Guardian. Quite consistent in travel times despite Halo 4’s sprint speed being faster than Halo 3’s BMS. Time wise they’re close, in size, far from close.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > In this case, Haven is rather large for being Halo 4’s smallest launch map, only Skyline is smaller, and not by a lot, compared to atleast Guardian in Halo 3.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > So, you get places as fast as the map designer intends you to, in this sense, sprint is an illusion.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > As for Pitfall and Ragnarok, i343 deemed that these maps were managable with sprint. Valhalla being a vehicle map and The Pit not being small in the first place. Neither of them however played like their previous counter parts.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > The map size increase is generally meant for smaller maps, not large BTB maps feautring vehicles, because vehicles themselves allow players to cross a map even faster than sprint. Take a fast vehicle on any map and you’ll reach any place faster than an infantry person.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > PS: How is truth in the same league as Headlong??? I don’t recall truth being that large or headlong that small. I don’t recall any times in the leagues of 20 seconds when a moderator made a more thorough run through of truth and compared it to midship.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Truth and heretic I did by walking across the entire outer ring, those 2 I didn’t just go from point a to b. I started and ended in the same spot. And I did each run once or twice cuz I didn’t have a ton of time. But I took the same path for the various maps. I don’t know how to explain where I started and ended in each map, not all were straight lines. If I knew how to shoe you my Xbox dvr I would.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Those are interesting times. I think the next step would be to look at the times from objective to objective.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > The idea that sprint is an illusion isn’t that sprinting doesn’t make you fast (we know it does) but that maps have grown larger to compensate.
> > > > > > > > > > This I’m not sure of. I don’t think we’re seeing too many huge maps, but rather a lack of small ones. So the average size has increased but the objective sizes of maps might still fall into a similar range.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > If we measure the time it takes to get from one objective to another in Halo 2 and 3, then consider the distances from one objective to another in 4 and 5 will we see a significant difference? Remakes should not be compared to originals as we know that sprinting changes speeds. Rather, we look at the overall trends in maps sizes by comparing Flag to Flag.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > You must understand that there are two kinds of sprint. In Reach, if you moved from one end of Battle Canyon to the other using sprint, you’d get there five seconds faster than you did in H2 or Ce. But in H5 if you go from Red base to Blue base on Truth using sprint, you’d get there one second faster than you did in H2. So in H5 you are moving at the Base movement speed of halos 1-3 when sprinting. Which means that sprint doesn’t actually make you go faster.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Secondly, the map size. What is the biggest 4v4/2v2 map in H5? Because why would they make the maps bigger if they added sprint? I never understood that. Why must the maps grow along with speed?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > what? you are not moving at the base speed of halo 3.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Rather the ratios of speed and distance are proportional resulting in the same times (or roughly the same).
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Sprint absolutely makes you faster. The question is whether or not maps have been thusly scaled to maintain similar travel times, making the addition of sprint less meaningful.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > But it is a matter of perspective. You might say that the maps have been made bigger, but I might say that we have been made slower. It is the same thing.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > no. 4 miles in 4 minutes is very different than 400 miles in 4 minutes.
> > > > > > distance = speedtime
> > > > > > 4 miles=60 mph4 minutes
> > > > > > 400 miles =6000 mph*4 minutes
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Even though 4/60 is equal to 400/6000 and times are the same.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Sprinting makes you faster. That is fact.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > How can you proof that the distances in H5 are bigger? If you’re getting from point A to point B using sprint as fast as you were in H2, than the BMS is lower and sprinting makes you go as fast as you walked in H1-3.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > How can you look at Truth and not be able to tell it’s massive compared to Midship?
> > >
> > >
> > > I was just arguing that we have been made smaller and slower, which is why Truth looks bigger.
> >
> >
> > I know. And thats not true.
> >
> > Size in the game is relative. Spartans to warthogs to tanks… All fundamentally the same.
> >
> > Go to Halo 3 and drop a hog into… Heretic (is that the name?) and then do the same in H5 truth. The maps, Spartans are not smaller, as they retain the same relative size to all other objects in the game. Truth is then just a bigger map than Heretic and likely Midship.
>
>
> Truth’s gameplay is so much more spread out than Midship and Heretic due to sprint. It detracts from the quality of the firefights.

ok. Statement read. Thanks for contributing.

[R4d1c47Ed]

> 2533274839169051;8414:
> The only way sprintless Halo should ever return is if it’s created in HCE’s intended perfection with all the best mechanics (as if the HCE pistol was never OP):
> short HCE jumps
> falling damage and death
> health packs
> ladders
> teleporters
> projectile
> bloom
> automatics > precision
> odd maps

Halo 2 still has my favorite gameplay out of the entire Halo franchise, even with its problems.

CE Pistol battles across Blood Gulch FTW.
Does anybody else remember climbing the “ladder” on top of that one structure outside of Headlong? It was actually an okay sniper nest. =P
Hang 'Em High didn’t feel odd to me. Nor Prisoner. Nor Longest.

[C0RRuPTT]

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> > > > 2535455681930574;8523:
> > > > > 2533274795123910;8512:
> > > > > > 2535455681930574;8491:
> > > > > > Let’s say you guys get your way and we get a halo game without abilities and sprint. What happens to those who like halo 5’s gameplay over the classic gameplay. Would you just want to leave them in the dust?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes.
> > > > > If they have no genuine interest in what I prefer, why would I want them around?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Well that’s kind of a -Yoink- thing to say. Why would want to inflict the same thing that happened to you onto others?
> > >
> > >
> > > I am here on this forum for no one else than me, I act on behalf of my own interests.
> > >
> > > Now pray tell, why should I have an interest in trying to keep players who are not interested in what I want to play?
> >
> >
> > I am pro no-sprint. However, we won’t be able to get our fellow fans on board with another no sprint Halo if we condemn them.
>
>
> What makes you think anyone who wouldn’t be interested in a “classic” part of Halo in a Halo game split between modern and classic, would have interest in playing a “classic” Halo only? If they don’t have an interest in it, then they simply do not, if they however do, then great.

Because if you want others to jump on board with the way you think. You have to be more tactful when discussing your point.

[R4d1c47Ed]

> 2535422073870659;8540:
> > 2533274816931642;8536:
> > > 2535422073870659;8535:
> > > I should’ve just stayed out of this…
> > >
> > >
> > > > 2533274816931642;8534:
> > > > > 2535422073870659;8529:
> > > > > > 2533274816931642;8528:
> > > > > > > 2535422073870659;8526:
> > > > > > > > 2533274816931642;8521:
> > > > > > > > > 2535422073870659;8515:
> > > > > > > > > But seriously. You don’t have to sprint. So, why do you hate it? Is it because, God forbid, the other players have an unfair advantage? Gasp!
> > > > > > > > > I, for one, prefer sprint to be in the game. Does that mean that you all have to obey me and keep it forever?
> > > > > > > > > No. No it doesn’t.
> > > > > > > > > But that’s just my opinion. And I understand that you have an opinion too, and that you want your voice to be heard, but that doesn’t guarantee that 343’ll listen.
> > > > > > > > > I just don’t get why people hate sprint so much. Sure, it wasn’t in the original games, but that doesn’t mean they couldn’t introduce a new mechanic.
> > > > > > > > > I mean, CoD used to be about real warfare, and modern battles. But it’s now some sort of semifuturistic FPS game that may not be realistic. I have yet to hear anyone complain.
> > > > > > > > > Did anyone complain about the Wasp? Sure, it’s pretty weak, but has anyone complained about it because it’s newer than the other vehicles?
> > > > > > > > > No.
> > > > > > > > > And I probably sound like a jerk, but xenophobia won’t solve anything. I know that you want to “preserve” the old game mechanics and whatnot, but there’s no point in complaining about something because it’s “new”.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > This isn’t an Appeal to Tradition.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The Wasp, in the right hands, borders on being overpowered. There’s a reason why it can’t take very much damage.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Infinite Warfare got a lot of hate, especially because it’s bundled with an original remake. Last I heard, CoD was experiencing some drop-off when there major changes made to its core gameplay. The remake will probably be the best CoD since MW2, so it seems like a desperate move to sell their current title. Why couldn’t they just stick to CoD, and release their futuristic military sci-fi twitch shooter under a different title?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I should just stay out of this argument and shut up, shouldn’t I?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Do you understand the arguments that are being made against sprint? You say that you don’t understand why there’s so much hate for sprint, but there are thousands of replies in this thread that elucidate the anti-sprint crowd’s position. It’s fine to have a preference, but if you aren’t contributing to the dialogue, then why are you bothering to comment? Generalizing the arguments against sprint as “xenophibia” does, indeed, make you sound like a jerk.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Soooo… Yes?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > If all you’ve gotten out of this thread is that the anti-sprint crowd is simply xenophobic, then yes.
> > > >
> > > > Could you explain how each of the anti-sprint crowd’s arguments is an example of xenophbia?
> > >
> > >
> > > They keep repeating about how it’s “not true to the original game.” Now that I’ve thought about it for a while, I realize that what I said was rude. Can I leave now?
> >
> >
> > You can leave whenever you like.
> >
> > That seems like an oversimplification of most of the anti-sprint crowd’s arguments. Regardless, how is the fact that Halo 4 and 5 aren’t true to their roots an example of xenophobia?
>
>
> Doesn’t xenophobia mean “the fear or hatred of change?” I’m sorry if I have offended people here on the Forums.
> P.S. I really am enforcing the stereotype about idiot sheltered kids, aren’t I?
> Heh.

It does, and you are labeling the anti-sprint crowd as fearful/full of hatred. The fact that classic Halo took knowledge to be good at was what made it fun and interesting. I always fancied platformers when I was younger, so I really enjoyed practicing and nailing skill jumps. I felt awesome when I outwitted my opponent, because he or she didn’t know the map as well as I did. Anyway, I don’t think that you offended anybody.

[C0RRuPTT]

> 2533274855279867;8545:
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> > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274913913392;8446:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274795123910;8420:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274913913392;8408:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Halo 3
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 50 - Sandtrap (longways)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 40 - Sandtrap (shortways)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 57 - Valhalla
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 30 - Heretic
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 16 - The Pit
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 39 - Standoff
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Halo 2
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 45 - Headlong
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Halo 5
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 27 - Guillotine (Headlong) - sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 35 - Guillotine (Headlong) - walking
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 27.5 - Truth (Heretic) -sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 37 - Truth (Heretic) - walking
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 29.5 - Deadlock (Standoff) - sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 38 - Deadlock (Standoff) - walking
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 39 - Altar-Sandtrap (Remake) longways - Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 50 -Altar- Sandtrap (Remake) longways - Walking
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 20 - Altar-Sandtrap (Remake) shortways - Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 25 - Altar0Sandtrap (Remake) shortways - Walking
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 46 - Viking -Valhalla (Remake) - Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 60 - Viking - Valhalla (Remake) - Walking
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 9 - Simulation -The Pit (Remake) - Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 11.5 - Simulation -The Pit (Remake) - Walking
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Halo 4
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 34 - Ragnarok (Valhalla) - Unlimited Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 41.5 - Ragnarok (Valhalla) - Limited Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 55 - Ragnarok (Valhalla) - Walking
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 9 - Pitfall (The Pit) - Unlimited Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10.5 - Pitfall (The Pit) - Limited Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 14.5 - Pitfall (The Pit) - Walking
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > So overall it depends on the map, but it takes about the same time to walk across most of the maps, sometimes faster, sometimes slower, in Halo 4 and 5 as it did in 2 and 3. Sprint legitimately speeds up the time it takes to get from one point to another on a map. It is not just an illusion.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Good job.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Are these averages from many runs on one map? Say ten runs. Or did you run once flawless run and take the time? From what point of the maps, to where on the same map are you running? Do you take a special route where you can’t make it in a straight line?
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, Ragnarok and Pitfall are 1:1 remakes of Valhalla and The Pit.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Now then, let’s start.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Illusion, yes and no. If you take a map, design it around base movement speed only, and then after that throw in a sprint function that increases your speed by 30%, then you cross the map faster. Even if we take a sprint game with maps designed around sprint, in that case you get across a map faster than not sprinting.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > However, considering that maps are designed around the mechanics present in a game, you’ll see that it is the map designer who is in charge of how fast you get places, regardless of what mechanics are present. Sprint only allows you to cross a map relatively faster than not sprinting in the same game. Clamber does not allow you to reach places that are not intended to be reached, outside of glitches and oversights of course.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Let’s take Haven, Halo 4’s smallest launch map and compare travel times with Halo 3’s Guardian. Quite consistent in travel times despite Halo 4’s sprint speed being faster than Halo 3’s BMS. Time wise they’re close, in size, far from close.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > In this case, Haven is rather large for being Halo 4’s smallest launch map, only Skyline is smaller, and not by a lot, compared to atleast Guardian in Halo 3.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > So, you get places as fast as the map designer intends you to, in this sense, sprint is an illusion.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > As for Pitfall and Ragnarok, i343 deemed that these maps were managable with sprint. Valhalla being a vehicle map and The Pit not being small in the first place. Neither of them however played like their previous counter parts.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > The map size increase is generally meant for smaller maps, not large BTB maps feautring vehicles, because vehicles themselves allow players to cross a map even faster than sprint. Take a fast vehicle on any map and you’ll reach any place faster than an infantry person.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > PS: How is truth in the same league as Headlong??? I don’t recall truth being that large or headlong that small. I don’t recall any times in the leagues of 20 seconds when a moderator made a more thorough run through of truth and compared it to midship.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Truth and heretic I did by walking across the entire outer ring, those 2 I didn’t just go from point a to b. I started and ended in the same spot. And I did each run once or twice cuz I didn’t have a ton of time. But I took the same path for the various maps. I don’t know how to explain where I started and ended in each map, not all were straight lines. If I knew how to shoe you my Xbox dvr I would.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Those are interesting times. I think the next step would be to look at the times from objective to objective.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > The idea that sprint is an illusion isn’t that sprinting doesn’t make you fast (we know it does) but that maps have grown larger to compensate.
> > > > > > > > > > > This I’m not sure of. I don’t think we’re seeing too many huge maps, but rather a lack of small ones. So the average size has increased but the objective sizes of maps might still fall into a similar range.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > If we measure the time it takes to get from one objective to another in Halo 2 and 3, then consider the distances from one objective to another in 4 and 5 will we see a significant difference? Remakes should not be compared to originals as we know that sprinting changes speeds. Rather, we look at the overall trends in maps sizes by comparing Flag to Flag.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > You must understand that there are two kinds of sprint. In Reach, if you moved from one end of Battle Canyon to the other using sprint, you’d get there five seconds faster than you did in H2 or Ce. But in H5 if you go from Red base to Blue base on Truth using sprint, you’d get there one second faster than you did in H2. So in H5 you are moving at the Base movement speed of halos 1-3 when sprinting. Which means that sprint doesn’t actually make you go faster.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Secondly, the map size. What is the biggest 4v4/2v2 map in H5? Because why would they make the maps bigger if they added sprint? I never understood that. Why must the maps grow along with speed?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > what? you are not moving at the base speed of halo 3.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Rather the ratios of speed and distance are proportional resulting in the same times (or roughly the same).
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Sprint absolutely makes you faster. The question is whether or not maps have been thusly scaled to maintain similar travel times, making the addition of sprint less meaningful.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > But it is a matter of perspective. You might say that the maps have been made bigger, but I might say that we have been made slower. It is the same thing.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > no. 4 miles in 4 minutes is very different than 400 miles in 4 minutes.
> > > > > > > distance = speedtime
> > > > > > > 4 miles=60 mph4 minutes
> > > > > > > 400 miles =6000 mph*4 minutes
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Even though 4/60 is equal to 400/6000 and times are the same.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Sprinting makes you faster. That is fact.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > How can you proof that the distances in H5 are bigger? If you’re getting from point A to point B using sprint as fast as you were in H2, than the BMS is lower and sprinting makes you go as fast as you walked in H1-3.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > How can you look at Truth and not be able to tell it’s massive compared to Midship?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I was just arguing that we have been made smaller and slower, which is why Truth looks bigger.
> > >
> > >
> > > I know. And thats not true.
> > >
> > > Size in the game is relative. Spartans to warthogs to tanks… All fundamentally the same.
> > >
> > > Go to Halo 3 and drop a hog into… Heretic (is that the name?) and then do the same in H5 truth. The maps, Spartans are not smaller, as they retain the same relative size to all other objects in the game. Truth is then just a bigger map than Heretic and likely Midship.
> >
> >
> > Truth’s gameplay is so much more spread out than Midship and Heretic due to sprint. It detracts from the quality of the firefights.
>
>
> ok. Statement read. Thanks for contributing.

The pleasure is all mine.

[Naqser]

> 2533274866906624;8547:
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> > > > > > > 2535455681930574;8491:
> > > > > > > Let’s say you guys get your way and we get a halo game without abilities and sprint. What happens to those who like halo 5’s gameplay over the classic gameplay. Would you just want to leave them in the dust?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yes.
> > > > > > If they have no genuine interest in what I prefer, why would I want them around?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Well that’s kind of a -Yoink- thing to say. Why would want to inflict the same thing that happened to you onto others?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I am here on this forum for no one else than me, I act on behalf of my own interests.
> > > >
> > > > Now pray tell, why should I have an interest in trying to keep players who are not interested in what I want to play?
> > >
> > >
> > > I am pro no-sprint. However, we won’t be able to get our fellow fans on board with another no sprint Halo if we condemn them.
> >
> >
> > What makes you think anyone who wouldn’t be interested in a “classic” part of Halo in a Halo game split between modern and classic, would have interest in playing a “classic” Halo only? If they don’t have an interest in it, then they simply do not, if they however do, then great.
>
>
> Because if you want others to jump on board with the way you think. You have to be more tactful when discussing your point.

And this of course applies to players who will never be a part of such a discussion, but just have the game infront of them?

[R4d1c47Ed]

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> > > > > > > Those animations didn’t even make it out of the alpha. In the behind the scenes video that I watched, it was explained that Bungie always started with the story, and then designed the rest of the game around it. As for what that means with regard to the existence of sprint animations, I guess it’s up to you to infer what that means. Who knows, maybe it had something to do with hardware limitations, and the possible implementation of sprint would’ve been so limited that it was deemed an unnecessary use of resources. But then, there’s Occam’s Razor.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Could you link this video to me? Because quite honestly, I’ve read the exact opposite. If I recall correctly it was in an interview with german magazine “Gamestar” from april 2000, where they said: “… denn die Kampagne für den Einzelspielermodus wird nach alter Bungie Tradition erst zum schluss festgelegt”, roughly translated “…because, according to old Bungie-tradition, the campaign for single player is only established in the end.”
> > > > > > Unfortunately all scans of this interview are down, and I only found one guy quoting this text passage in a forums. If need be, I could try and find the magazine myself (if I even own it), but that might take a while, as all my old stuff is in my parent’s house.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Upon watching it again, I’ve decided that I might’ve misinterpreted the context. However, is it reasonable to assume that sprint wasn’t necessary for Halo 2’s story? Why didn’t Bungie’s documentary mention sprint? Sprint has effected the art and design of Halo 5, so there has to be some reason as to why it was scrapped so early on in Halo 2’s development. The main two that come to mind, for me, are:
> > > > >
> > > > > 1.) Hardware limitations, this could be anything from the amount of potential scripts that need to be ran, to rendering issues.
> > > > > 2.) It altered the gameplay, which wasn’t what Bungie wanted, for one reason or another.
> > > > >
> > > > > There are other possibilities, e.g. story telling, level design, the design of the music, etc.; however, the two that I listed above seem like the most likely explanations, IMO.
> > > > >
> > > > > Anyway, if what you say is true, then that means that multiplayer was designed before the campaign, right? If that’s the case, then sprint being cut in the alpha is–interesting. Maybe it provided too many challenges to Halo 2’s development, I’m not sure how they would change the core gameplay without having to change other aspects of the game as well. Maybe it was just an idea that was only entertained and then put away. As for it resurfacing, and being a reality, in Reach, that’s another point that deserves further discussion.
> > > > >
> > > > > I also found this to be really interesting.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Concepts are tested and scrapped all time. They can’t all be winners, so when they’re not they get cut. There’s no reason to bring up a mechanic that didn’t even make it past the testing phase. A Halo 2 animator said as far as he could recall it didn’t even come up during development in Halo 3, so they hadn’t even tried to test it. If it was something they were forced to cut in Halo 2 for reasons other than gameplay, I’d imagine they very likely would’ve tried it out again. Obviously, with Halo 2 they didn’t realize how much time they needed, so they would’ve been more prepared during Halo 3’s development in that sense.
> > > >
> > > > At best, even if it didn’t cause gameplay problems, it would still suggest that it didn’t benefit the game enough to include.
> > >
> > >
> > > at best? Maybe yeah, but you would have to define such a benefit to the game. If it was included later was that then a benefit to the game?
> > >
> > > After the success of halo 2 and the failures of halo 2 do you think bumgie was really looking to revolutionize their game? The exclusion of a spint mechanic could have been from continued creative pressures to finish the product fully and on time. Equipment were little more than new weapons and new weapons are par for the development cycle, whereas the inclusion of sprint would have meant a lot of work with animations at the least, and hours of testing elsewhere. Its exclusion might have benefitted the game by giving them the time to finish.
> > >
> > > With Reach, Bungie was more free to do what they wanted. Doesn’t that suggest sprint was something they might have wanted to do, but were under too much pressure to fully realize it?
> >
> >
> > Do you think that sprint would’ve taken as much time and effort as adding equipment?
> >
> > The jetpack was an idea that existed long before sprint did. Why wouldn’t Bungie have tried to make that a reality before sprint?
>
>
> I think it might have taken longer. Every weapon would need to be animated in a sprint both in the first person and the third for both Spartans and Elites (unless they gave the different models different abilities, which doesn’t seem like a choice they would have made then). Different weapons might have needed different sprinting animations. I haven’t looked at reach in a while… but how does a spartan sprint with a Rocket launcher compared to a pistol? They would have had to decide how sprinting affected melee and shooting- does it cancel the sprint? Does it not work until you release forward on the stick.
>
> Equipment has its own animations , but they are mostly self contained. Sprint affects every other weapon animation.
>
> As for jetpack. Why wouldn’t they implement an idea? Because it takes time. Maybe they haven’t found a solution to a potential problem. Maybe they didn’t like how it would have worked in the control scheme.
>
> Why wouldn’t they do it before sprint? Um… because of [reasons]. Is this really the question you think matters? Maybe they thought sprint worked better and so tried it in Halo 2 and then decided against… and then decided to try all the ideas in Reach. Perhaps you should simply state something rather than use a rhetorical question.

Wouldn’t they have to design animations for jetpacks, too?

Fair point, but how much coding and testing was required for equipment?

My point was that a lot more consideration was given to the jetpack than sprint in the original trilogy. I mean, they had enough time to give Elites jetpacks in Halo 2’s campaign.

I thought that it was a question worth asking, so I asked it. I don’t really see how it’s rhetorical: nobody seems to know the answer to it. Maybe they thought sprint might work, and had second thoughts before they actually got started on it, for time/hardware/gameplay reasons. Perhaps they tried all the ideas in Reach, which was a spin-off, in order to develop Destiny’s gameplay.

[Obi_Wlan_Kenobi]

> 2533274855279867;8541:
> > 2533274943854776;8506:
> > > 2533274819567236;8479:
> > > > 2533274943854776;8472:
> > > > > 2533274855279867;8469:
> > > > > > 2533274943854776;8466:
> > > > > > > 2533274855279867;8457:
> > > > > > > > 2533274943854776;8451:
> > > > > > > > > 2533274855279867;8448:
> > > > > > > > > > 2533274913913392;8446:
> > > > > > > > > > > 2533274795123910;8420:
> > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274913913392;8408:
> > > > > > > > > > > > Halo 3
> > > > > > > > > > > > 50 - Sandtrap (longways)
> > > > > > > > > > > > 40 - Sandtrap (shortways)
> > > > > > > > > > > > 57 - Valhalla
> > > > > > > > > > > > 30 - Heretic
> > > > > > > > > > > > 16 - The Pit
> > > > > > > > > > > > 39 - Standoff
> > > > > > > > > > > > Halo 2
> > > > > > > > > > > > 45 - Headlong
> > > > > > > > > > > > Halo 5
> > > > > > > > > > > > 27 - Guillotine (Headlong) - sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > > > 35 - Guillotine (Headlong) - walking
> > > > > > > > > > > > 27.5 - Truth (Heretic) -sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > > > 37 - Truth (Heretic) - walking
> > > > > > > > > > > > 29.5 - Deadlock (Standoff) - sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > > > 38 - Deadlock (Standoff) - walking
> > > > > > > > > > > > 39 - Altar-Sandtrap (Remake) longways - Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > > > 50 -Altar- Sandtrap (Remake) longways - Walking
> > > > > > > > > > > > 20 - Altar-Sandtrap (Remake) shortways - Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > > > 25 - Altar0Sandtrap (Remake) shortways - Walking
> > > > > > > > > > > > 46 - Viking -Valhalla (Remake) - Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > > > 60 - Viking - Valhalla (Remake) - Walking
> > > > > > > > > > > > 9 - Simulation -The Pit (Remake) - Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > > > 11.5 - Simulation -The Pit (Remake) - Walking
> > > > > > > > > > > > Halo 4
> > > > > > > > > > > > 34 - Ragnarok (Valhalla) - Unlimited Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > > > 41.5 - Ragnarok (Valhalla) - Limited Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > > > 55 - Ragnarok (Valhalla) - Walking
> > > > > > > > > > > > 9 - Pitfall (The Pit) - Unlimited Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > > > 10.5 - Pitfall (The Pit) - Limited Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > > > 14.5 - Pitfall (The Pit) - Walking
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > So overall it depends on the map, but it takes about the same time to walk across most of the maps, sometimes faster, sometimes slower, in Halo 4 and 5 as it did in 2 and 3. Sprint legitimately speeds up the time it takes to get from one point to another on a map. It is not just an illusion.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Good job.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Are these averages from many runs on one map? Say ten runs. Or did you run once flawless run and take the time? From what point of the maps, to where on the same map are you running? Do you take a special route where you can’t make it in a straight line?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Also, Ragnarok and Pitfall are 1:1 remakes of Valhalla and The Pit.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Now then, let’s start.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Illusion, yes and no. If you take a map, design it around base movement speed only, and then after that throw in a sprint function that increases your speed by 30%, then you cross the map faster. Even if we take a sprint game with maps designed around sprint, in that case you get across a map faster than not sprinting.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > However, considering that maps are designed around the mechanics present in a game, you’ll see that it is the map designer who is in charge of how fast you get places, regardless of what mechanics are present. Sprint only allows you to cross a map relatively faster than not sprinting in the same game. Clamber does not allow you to reach places that are not intended to be reached, outside of glitches and oversights of course.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Let’s take Haven, Halo 4’s smallest launch map and compare travel times with Halo 3’s Guardian. Quite consistent in travel times despite Halo 4’s sprint speed being faster than Halo 3’s BMS. Time wise they’re close, in size, far from close.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > In this case, Haven is rather large for being Halo 4’s smallest launch map, only Skyline is smaller, and not by a lot, compared to atleast Guardian in Halo 3.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > So, you get places as fast as the map designer intends you to, in this sense, sprint is an illusion.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > As for Pitfall and Ragnarok, i343 deemed that these maps were managable with sprint. Valhalla being a vehicle map and The Pit not being small in the first place. Neither of them however played like their previous counter parts.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > The map size increase is generally meant for smaller maps, not large BTB maps feautring vehicles, because vehicles themselves allow players to cross a map even faster than sprint. Take a fast vehicle on any map and you’ll reach any place faster than an infantry person.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > PS: How is truth in the same league as Headlong??? I don’t recall truth being that large or headlong that small. I don’t recall any times in the leagues of 20 seconds when a moderator made a more thorough run through of truth and compared it to midship.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Truth and heretic I did by walking across the entire outer ring, those 2 I didn’t just go from point a to b. I started and ended in the same spot. And I did each run once or twice cuz I didn’t have a ton of time. But I took the same path for the various maps. I don’t know how to explain where I started and ended in each map, not all were straight lines. If I knew how to shoe you my Xbox dvr I would.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Those are interesting times. I think the next step would be to look at the times from objective to objective.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The idea that sprint is an illusion isn’t that sprinting doesn’t make you fast (we know it does) but that maps have grown larger to compensate.
> > > > > > > > > This I’m not sure of. I don’t think we’re seeing too many huge maps, but rather a lack of small ones. So the average size has increased but the objective sizes of maps might still fall into a similar range.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > If we measure the time it takes to get from one objective to another in Halo 2 and 3, then consider the distances from one objective to another in 4 and 5 will we see a significant difference? Remakes should not be compared to originals as we know that sprinting changes speeds. Rather, we look at the overall trends in maps sizes by comparing Flag to Flag.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > You must understand that there are two kinds of sprint. In Reach, if you moved from one end of Battle Canyon to the other using sprint, you’d get there five seconds faster than you did in H2 or Ce. But in H5 if you go from Red base to Blue base on Truth using sprint, you’d get there one second faster than you did in H2. So in H5 you are moving at the Base movement speed of halos 1-3 when sprinting. Which means that sprint doesn’t actually make you go faster.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Secondly, the map size. What is the biggest 4v4/2v2 map in H5? Because why would they make the maps bigger if they added sprint? I never understood that. Why must the maps grow along with speed?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > what? you are not moving at the base speed of halo 3.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Rather the ratios of speed and distance are proportional resulting in the same times (or roughly the same).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Sprint absolutely makes you faster. The question is whether or not maps have been thusly scaled to maintain similar travel times, making the addition of sprint less meaningful.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > But it is a matter of perspective. You might say that the maps have been made bigger, but I might say that we have been made slower. It is the same thing.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > no. 4 miles in 4 minutes is very different than 400 miles in 4 minutes.
> > > > > distance = speedtime
> > > > > 4 miles=60 mph4 minutes
> > > > > 400 miles =6000 mph*4 minutes
> > > > >
> > > > > Even though 4/60 is equal to 400/6000 and times are the same.
> > > > >
> > > > > Sprinting makes you faster. That is fact.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > How can you proof that the distances in H5 are bigger? If you’re getting from point A to point B using sprint as fast as you were in H2, than the BMS is lower and sprinting makes you go as fast as you walked in H1-3.
> > >
> > >
> > > How can you look at Truth and not be able to tell it’s massive compared to Midship?
> >
> >
> > I was just arguing that we have been made smaller and slower, which is why Truth looks bigger.
>
>
> I know. And thats not true.
>
> Size in the game is relative. Spartans to warthogs to tanks… All fundamentally the same.
>
> Go to Halo 3 and drop a hog into… Heretic (is that the name?) and then do the same in H5 truth. The maps, Spartans are not smaller, as they retain the same relative size to all other objects in the game. Truth is then just a bigger map than Heretic and likely Midship.

No. The UNSC wanted smaller warthogs and Brs because they looked cuter. It is a matter of perspective.

[Celestis]

> 2535455681930574;8499:
> > 2533274801176260;8496:
> > > 2535455681930574;8491:
> > > Let’s say you guys get your way and we get a halo game without abilities and sprint. What happens to those who like halo 5’s gameplay over the classic gameplay. Would you just want to leave them in the dust?
> >
> >
> > Make a spinoff series following Spartan-IVs. This is what should have been done in the first place.
>
>
> Why? You could make the same argument for halo ce’s evolution to 2.

Because Spartan-IIs can run and gun, while Spartan-IVs obviously can’t.
CE to 2 didn’t feel as disjointed as the original trilogy compared to everything that came after.
Bungie wanted to try something different, so they made Reach, which was a spinoff. Every title that follows this gameplay, obviously, should also have been a spinoff.

Seriously, what else do you want? All continuing Halo games are supposed to follow the modern approach, with some alibi-playlists to keep the purists at bay? Even when people suggest two different series running parallel, each one serving one half of the fanbase, that doesn’t fly with you. It seems to me that you’re not content unless all classic fans have left the franchise and the modern approach is the only one left standing…

And people are accusing me to be pigheaded and egocentric…

[R4d1c47Ed]

> 2533274846068053;8429:
> Sprint has made this game relevant again. I agree that there is more skill involved with no sprinting because having to be able to land shots under pressure, however I believe the sprint and the thruster ability has made this game so great. This has been the best online competitive halo since halo 3.

Since Halo 3, yes, ever? Nope.

[Celestis]

> 2533274855279867;8541:
> Go to Halo 3 and drop a hog into… Heretic (is that the name?) and then do the same in H5 truth. The maps, Spartans are not smaller, as they retain the same relative size to all other objects in the game. Truth is then just a bigger map than Heretic and likely Midship.

Actually, that’s not true. At least it shouldn’t be. Spartan-IVs are notably smaller than Spartan-IIs, so the vehicles should be larger in comparison, since they do not change size. I’m pretty certain that at least Reach followed this premise…

[R4d1c47Ed]

> 2533274855279867;8434:
> > 2533274819567236;8353:
> > > 2533274855279867;8325:
> > > > 2533274819567236;8262:
> > > > > 2533274855279867;8259:
> > > > > in denial of what? What am I denying? Asking a question is not denial. Rather, I’m very curious about the design choices and plans for h2 and would like to know more. but I’m not going to bother the guy. You think the art director is going to have intimate knowledge of the design of sprint so many years later? Memories fail. Art directors direct art. i could tweet him, but to what end? to find out he vaguely remembers that it was a problem with pacing and he didnt have to work on the animations any longer? Had there been more information you’d think we’d have heard about it already… you know, since someone already contacted the guy regarding the animations and posted a video on youtube about it and all we got was “pacing issues”
> > > > >
> > > > > Based on the available information its unlikely we can get anything more definitive than “pacing issues”
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > In denial of what the reason was for sprint getting cut. If you’re gonna suggest he meant something else, then prove it. You’re just making excuses in case you’re wrong. If you won’t back up what you believe, then there’s nothing more to discuss on that video.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > 2533274855279867;8260:
> > > > > > 2533274819567236;8252:
> > > > > > > 2535466914543129;8250:
> > > > > > > I can’t seem to wrap my head around the fact that a -Yoinking!- mechanic is your main priority when story and quality content are what makes games great. I don’t want to have to this but if you make me I’ll get you an intervention.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Gameplay is more important than both of those things.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > depends on the kind of game. Witcher 3 has arguably boring combat compared to something flashy like DmC… but combat isnt why you play witcher. Story and content can be the gameplay, as we see in the telltale games.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > For an FPS, gameplay is more important. Whoa, who would’ve thought that’s the genre I was talking about?
> > >
> > >
> > > I don’t believe anything about the video. I think you’re imposing stuff onto me.
> > >
> > > As for gameplay being more important in an FPS… snarky though you are, completely correct you are not. Both are what made halo as popular as it is. Fallout 4 is very much a shooter, but it is getting a lot of heat for its lack of story and content. Borderlands the Presequel has fantastic borderlands styled gameplay, but it was knocked because it lacked the content and story of number 2.
> > >
> > > Oh, and halo 5 has really great gameplay (preferences not with standing), but it gets hit hard by a lot of players for its story and content.
> > >
> > > See how much good that snark did you? Not much. The fact is gameplay is comprised of a lot of different parts- including story. I think you mean to refer to the shooting mechanics in a FPS taking priority over the story line. And that is a matter of opinion.
> >
> >
> > Gameplay made Halo as popular as it was. Story was a close second at best.
> >
> > Fallout 4 is not a shooter, it’s a role playing game. You can argue it, like I know you will, but you’ll still be wrong. Your Borderlands example is the result of player expectations of what they got from the series previously. It’s different from Halo 5 because Halo 5’s gameplay is still criticised in additions to its lack of content and poor story. And Reach and H4 had the content and story, but the gameplay gives them a bad reputation and resulted in a large population drop.
> >
> > Gameplay is more important in FPS than story or content. You can keep being wrong if you’d like, but it won’t change anything.
>
>
> Role Playing game is not an exclusive genre. Action Rpg… Strategy Rpg… Fps Rpg (heard of Destiny?).
>
> Fallout 4 is a shooter. Fallout 3 wasnt to the same degree given you had to use vats to be successful in many many cases, but Fallout 4 has no such requirement. The shooting is great. It is a shooter. It just doesnt rely on shooting for its gameplay. It is also an RPG. And while Borderlands was a result of player expectations- its still about content and story, they expected more in the game and complained about it.
>
> As for halo. Yes, the gameplay was its highlight. Thats the general reason for halo success. But that isnt the argument. You said in FPS gameplay is first, not halo.That is absolutely incorrect.
>
> That halo relies on its shooting mechanics is historical fact- it was lauded for them. But it was also highly praised for its storyand lore. So which is more important is a matter of opinion. Different people place importance on different things. If you want to get less subjective you would need to be more specific. Online population relies on gameplay, as you mentioned with Reach. But wasnt Reach an issue of expectations? Vets expected more halo 3 and didnt quite get it?

I didn’t really feel like the game was worth $60, but I didn’t stop playing it because of the lack of content (look at how much BL2 grew). I’m still playing Halo 5–though I didn’t start playing until the Firefight beta.

Armor Abilities, as a core mechanic, are nothing like being unable to farm for loot in a game that’s about loot. Weak Analogy

[pajama_dad]

> 2533274866906624;8549:
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> > > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274913913392;8446:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274795123910;8420:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 2533274913913392;8408:
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Halo 3
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 50 - Sandtrap (longways)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 40 - Sandtrap (shortways)
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 57 - Valhalla
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 30 - Heretic
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 16 - The Pit
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 39 - Standoff
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Halo 2
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 45 - Headlong
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Halo 5
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 27 - Guillotine (Headlong) - sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 35 - Guillotine (Headlong) - walking
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 27.5 - Truth (Heretic) -sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 37 - Truth (Heretic) - walking
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 29.5 - Deadlock (Standoff) - sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 38 - Deadlock (Standoff) - walking
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 39 - Altar-Sandtrap (Remake) longways - Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 50 -Altar- Sandtrap (Remake) longways - Walking
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 20 - Altar-Sandtrap (Remake) shortways - Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 25 - Altar0Sandtrap (Remake) shortways - Walking
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 46 - Viking -Valhalla (Remake) - Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 60 - Viking - Valhalla (Remake) - Walking
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 9 - Simulation -The Pit (Remake) - Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 11.5 - Simulation -The Pit (Remake) - Walking
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Halo 4
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 34 - Ragnarok (Valhalla) - Unlimited Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 41.5 - Ragnarok (Valhalla) - Limited Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 55 - Ragnarok (Valhalla) - Walking
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 9 - Pitfall (The Pit) - Unlimited Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 10.5 - Pitfall (The Pit) - Limited Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 14.5 - Pitfall (The Pit) - Walking
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So overall it depends on the map, but it takes about the same time to walk across most of the maps, sometimes faster, sometimes slower, in Halo 4 and 5 as it did in 2 and 3. Sprint legitimately speeds up the time it takes to get from one point to another on a map. It is not just an illusion.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Good job.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Are these averages from many runs on one map? Say ten runs. Or did you run once flawless run and take the time? From what point of the maps, to where on the same map are you running? Do you take a special route where you can’t make it in a straight line?
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, Ragnarok and Pitfall are 1:1 remakes of Valhalla and The Pit.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now then, let’s start.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Illusion, yes and no. If you take a map, design it around base movement speed only, and then after that throw in a sprint function that increases your speed by 30%, then you cross the map faster. Even if we take a sprint game with maps designed around sprint, in that case you get across a map faster than not sprinting.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > However, considering that maps are designed around the mechanics present in a game, you’ll see that it is the map designer who is in charge of how fast you get places, regardless of what mechanics are present. Sprint only allows you to cross a map relatively faster than not sprinting in the same game. Clamber does not allow you to reach places that are not intended to be reached, outside of glitches and oversights of course.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Let’s take Haven, Halo 4’s smallest launch map and compare travel times with Halo 3’s Guardian. Quite consistent in travel times despite Halo 4’s sprint speed being faster than Halo 3’s BMS. Time wise they’re close, in size, far from close.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > In this case, Haven is rather large for being Halo 4’s smallest launch map, only Skyline is smaller, and not by a lot, compared to atleast Guardian in Halo 3.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > So, you get places as fast as the map designer intends you to, in this sense, sprint is an illusion.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > As for Pitfall and Ragnarok, i343 deemed that these maps were managable with sprint. Valhalla being a vehicle map and The Pit not being small in the first place. Neither of them however played like their previous counter parts.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > The map size increase is generally meant for smaller maps, not large BTB maps feautring vehicles, because vehicles themselves allow players to cross a map even faster than sprint. Take a fast vehicle on any map and you’ll reach any place faster than an infantry person.
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > PS: How is truth in the same league as Headlong??? I don’t recall truth being that large or headlong that small. I don’t recall any times in the leagues of 20 seconds when a moderator made a more thorough run through of truth and compared it to midship.
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > > Truth and heretic I did by walking across the entire outer ring, those 2 I didn’t just go from point a to b. I started and ended in the same spot. And I did each run once or twice cuz I didn’t have a ton of time. But I took the same path for the various maps. I don’t know how to explain where I started and ended in each map, not all were straight lines. If I knew how to shoe you my Xbox dvr I would.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > Those are interesting times. I think the next step would be to look at the times from objective to objective.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > The idea that sprint is an illusion isn’t that sprinting doesn’t make you fast (we know it does) but that maps have grown larger to compensate.
> > > > > > > > > > > > This I’m not sure of. I don’t think we’re seeing too many huge maps, but rather a lack of small ones. So the average size has increased but the objective sizes of maps might still fall into a similar range.
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > > If we measure the time it takes to get from one objective to another in Halo 2 and 3, then consider the distances from one objective to another in 4 and 5 will we see a significant difference? Remakes should not be compared to originals as we know that sprinting changes speeds. Rather, we look at the overall trends in maps sizes by comparing Flag to Flag.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > You must understand that there are two kinds of sprint. In Reach, if you moved from one end of Battle Canyon to the other using sprint, you’d get there five seconds faster than you did in H2 or Ce. But in H5 if you go from Red base to Blue base on Truth using sprint, you’d get there one second faster than you did in H2. So in H5 you are moving at the Base movement speed of halos 1-3 when sprinting. Which means that sprint doesn’t actually make you go faster.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Secondly, the map size. What is the biggest 4v4/2v2 map in H5? Because why would they make the maps bigger if they added sprint? I never understood that. Why must the maps grow along with speed?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > what? you are not moving at the base speed of halo 3.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Rather the ratios of speed and distance are proportional resulting in the same times (or roughly the same).
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Sprint absolutely makes you faster. The question is whether or not maps have been thusly scaled to maintain similar travel times, making the addition of sprint less meaningful.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > But it is a matter of perspective. You might say that the maps have been made bigger, but I might say that we have been made slower. It is the same thing.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > no. 4 miles in 4 minutes is very different than 400 miles in 4 minutes.
> > > > > > > > distance = speedtime
> > > > > > > > 4 miles=60 mph4 minutes
> > > > > > > > 400 miles =6000 mph*4 minutes
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Even though 4/60 is equal to 400/6000 and times are the same.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Sprinting makes you faster. That is fact.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > How can you proof that the distances in H5 are bigger? If you’re getting from point A to point B using sprint as fast as you were in H2, than the BMS is lower and sprinting makes you go as fast as you walked in H1-3.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > How can you look at Truth and not be able to tell it’s massive compared to Midship?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > I was just arguing that we have been made smaller and slower, which is why Truth looks bigger.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I know. And thats not true.
> > > >
> > > > Size in the game is relative. Spartans to warthogs to tanks… All fundamentally the same.
> > > >
> > > > Go to Halo 3 and drop a hog into… Heretic (is that the name?) and then do the same in H5 truth. The maps, Spartans are not smaller, as they retain the same relative size to all other objects in the game. Truth is then just a bigger map than Heretic and likely Midship.
> > >
> > >
> > > Truth’s gameplay is so much more spread out than Midship and Heretic due to sprint. It detracts from the quality of the firefights.
> >
> >
> > ok. Statement read. Thanks for contributing.
>
>
> The pleasure is all mine.

I’ve decided that I really like you. We should be besties.

[JuliusGlobus]

Unfortunately there could be only one way or another. If you take out or leave sprint you will always end up with two different games. Maybe they share the same name but both have different mechanics, map design, weapons, game modes. This isn’t about sprint, this is about what kind of game we want. There always will be conflict. There is no middle ground. Don’t kid yourself. The question is which Halo game community want. You can’t have both.

[R4d1c47Ed]

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> > > > Halo 6 could be the game EVERYONE wants by removing sprint in campaign (yes because who the -Yoink- needs TWO movement speeds in campaign???) and
> > > > arena multiplayer at first I thought a no sprint playlist might be optimal but hear me out. I pretty sure the new spartan abilities (save -Yoinking!- spartan charge) would be GENERALLY accepted in a halo game if they werent accompanied by sprint it would feel more competitive more strategic and would also still be recognizable to the fine tuned experience we got in halo 5. Warzone and customs would be a whole other beast entirely retaining ALL the features that made halo 5 successful would keep warzone great and would also allow more options for custom games, for those people that actually wanted to play in a sprint arena type setting they could actually fire up the in game custom game lobby adjust the filter and be good to go! lets face it, sprint has NO place in competitve halo and to argue that it does would just be absurd. this would allow arena maps to continue to be designed the PROPER way and please the vets and basically everyone whos willing to give it a chance and you wouldnt lose much of your sprint loving audience at all because there would still be sprint in the game it would just take a backseat!
> > > > Thoughts? :3
> > >
> > >
> > > What is the big deal about sprint I like it
> >
> >
> > It’s a cool idea, but it hurts Halo’s gameplay.
>
>
> How?

Read the thread.

I’ll sum it up in a single statement: solid strategies cannot be formed on the unknown.

[pajama_dad]

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> > > > > > in denial of what? What am I denying? Asking a question is not denial. Rather, I’m very curious about the design choices and plans for h2 and would like to know more. but I’m not going to bother the guy. You think the art director is going to have intimate knowledge of the design of sprint so many years later? Memories fail. Art directors direct art. i could tweet him, but to what end? to find out he vaguely remembers that it was a problem with pacing and he didnt have to work on the animations any longer? Had there been more information you’d think we’d have heard about it already… you know, since someone already contacted the guy regarding the animations and posted a video on youtube about it and all we got was “pacing issues”
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Based on the available information its unlikely we can get anything more definitive than “pacing issues”
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > In denial of what the reason was for sprint getting cut. If you’re gonna suggest he meant something else, then prove it. You’re just making excuses in case you’re wrong. If you won’t back up what you believe, then there’s nothing more to discuss on that video.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
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> > > > > > > > I can’t seem to wrap my head around the fact that a -Yoinking!- mechanic is your main priority when story and quality content are what makes games great. I don’t want to have to this but if you make me I’ll get you an intervention.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Gameplay is more important than both of those things.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > depends on the kind of game. Witcher 3 has arguably boring combat compared to something flashy like DmC… but combat isnt why you play witcher. Story and content can be the gameplay, as we see in the telltale games.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > For an FPS, gameplay is more important. Whoa, who would’ve thought that’s the genre I was talking about?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I don’t believe anything about the video. I think you’re imposing stuff onto me.
> > > >
> > > > As for gameplay being more important in an FPS… snarky though you are, completely correct you are not. Both are what made halo as popular as it is. Fallout 4 is very much a shooter, but it is getting a lot of heat for its lack of story and content. Borderlands the Presequel has fantastic borderlands styled gameplay, but it was knocked because it lacked the content and story of number 2.
> > > >
> > > > Oh, and halo 5 has really great gameplay (preferences not with standing), but it gets hit hard by a lot of players for its story and content.
> > > >
> > > > See how much good that snark did you? Not much. The fact is gameplay is comprised of a lot of different parts- including story. I think you mean to refer to the shooting mechanics in a FPS taking priority over the story line. And that is a matter of opinion.
> > >
> > >
> > > Gameplay made Halo as popular as it was. Story was a close second at best.
> > >
> > > Fallout 4 is not a shooter, it’s a role playing game. You can argue it, like I know you will, but you’ll still be wrong. Your Borderlands example is the result of player expectations of what they got from the series previously. It’s different from Halo 5 because Halo 5’s gameplay is still criticised in additions to its lack of content and poor story. And Reach and H4 had the content and story, but the gameplay gives them a bad reputation and resulted in a large population drop.
> > >
> > > Gameplay is more important in FPS than story or content. You can keep being wrong if you’d like, but it won’t change anything.
> >
> >
> > Role Playing game is not an exclusive genre. Action Rpg… Strategy Rpg… Fps Rpg (heard of Destiny?).
> >
> > Fallout 4 is a shooter. Fallout 3 wasnt to the same degree given you had to use vats to be successful in many many cases, but Fallout 4 has no such requirement. The shooting is great. It is a shooter. It just doesnt rely on shooting for its gameplay. It is also an RPG. And while Borderlands was a result of player expectations- its still about content and story, they expected more in the game and complained about it.
> >
> > As for halo. Yes, the gameplay was its highlight. Thats the general reason for halo success. But that isnt the argument. You said in FPS gameplay is first, not halo.That is absolutely incorrect.
> >
> > That halo relies on its shooting mechanics is historical fact- it was lauded for them. But it was also highly praised for its storyand lore. So which is more important is a matter of opinion. Different people place importance on different things. If you want to get less subjective you would need to be more specific. Online population relies on gameplay, as you mentioned with Reach. But wasnt Reach an issue of expectations? Vets expected more halo 3 and didnt quite get it?
>
>
> I didn’t really feel like the game was worth $60, but I didn’t stop playing it because of the lack of content (look at how much BL2 grew). I’m still playing Halo 5–though I didn’t start playing until the Firefight beta.
>
> Armor Abilities, as a core mechanic, are nothing like being unable to farm for loot in a game that’s about loot. Weak Analogy

It wasnt an analogy it was an example of how story and content are important and can lead to complaints despite strong shooting mechanics- all of which are part of gameplay- this being contrary to the notion that the shooting is what matters most in a fps.

[pajama_dad]

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> > > > > Halo 6 could be the game EVERYONE wants by removing sprint in campaign (yes because who the -Yoink- needs TWO movement speeds in campaign???) and
> > > > > arena multiplayer at first I thought a no sprint playlist might be optimal but hear me out. I pretty sure the new spartan abilities (save -Yoinking!- spartan charge) would be GENERALLY accepted in a halo game if they werent accompanied by sprint it would feel more competitive more strategic and would also still be recognizable to the fine tuned experience we got in halo 5. Warzone and customs would be a whole other beast entirely retaining ALL the features that made halo 5 successful would keep warzone great and would also allow more options for custom games, for those people that actually wanted to play in a sprint arena type setting they could actually fire up the in game custom game lobby adjust the filter and be good to go! lets face it, sprint has NO place in competitve halo and to argue that it does would just be absurd. this would allow arena maps to continue to be designed the PROPER way and please the vets and basically everyone whos willing to give it a chance and you wouldnt lose much of your sprint loving audience at all because there would still be sprint in the game it would just take a backseat!
> > > > > Thoughts? :3
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > What is the big deal about sprint I like it
> > >
> > >
> > > It’s a cool idea, but it hurts Halo’s gameplay.
> >
> >
> > How?
>
>
> Read the thread.
>
> I’ll sum it up in a single statement: solid strategies cannot be formed on the unknown.

Throw in some talk on preference and thats a very pithy synopsis of this thread.