The sprint discussion thread

Games Halo 5: Guardians
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> > > Let’s say you guys get your way and we get a halo game without abilities and sprint. What happens to those who like halo 5’s gameplay over the classic gameplay. Would you just want to leave them in the dust?
> >
> >
> > Fans of “classic” Halo have been left in the dust for going on 7 years now. MCC was 343i’s chance to right their wrong with that part of the community, but we all know how that went.
> >
> > This sounds so hypocritical. I don’t know if you prefer sprint or not, but you are basically saying that you don’t want to be left in the dust so you want the other part of the community to be instead.
> >
> > EDIT: This is like 10 minutes later, and this post is still bothering me. I guess my answer would be something along the lines of, “If you don’t like it don’t play it. Go play Halo 5, it’s the Halo game with all the abilities. Adapt.” I’m sure there are some others out there, but you get the picture.
>
>
> I’m not saying it was right to leave you guys in the dust, but you guys know how it feels. Would you want to inflict that same feeling onto others?
>
> I prefer sprint, but I’m fine with a no sprint halo. However, there are others like you guys who can’t stand if the game does or doesn’t have sprint.
>
> So the arguments that you guys all despise would be the same ones you would use against them? If that’s not hypocritical, I don’t know what is.

Maybe you’re right. Maybe it is hypocritical of me. But at the same time I want a Halo game that I enjoy. I don’t really care is anyone else likes it or not, it just happens that a lot of people seem to want the same things I want.

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> > > Let’s say you guys get your way and we get a halo game without abilities and sprint. What happens to those who like halo 5’s gameplay over the classic gameplay. Would you just want to leave them in the dust?
> >
> >
> > Fans of “classic” Halo have been left in the dust for going on 7 years now. MCC was 343i’s chance to right their wrong with that part of the community, but we all know how that went.
> >
> > This sounds so hypocritical. I don’t know if you prefer sprint or not, but you are basically saying that you don’t want to be left in the dust so you want the other part of the community to be instead.
> >
> > EDIT: This is like 10 minutes later, and this post is still bothering me. I guess my answer would be something along the lines of, “If you don’t like it don’t play it. Go play Halo 5, it’s the Halo game with all the abilities. Adapt.” I’m sure there are some others out there, but you get the picture.
>
>
> I’m not saying it was right to leave you guys in the dust, but you guys know how it feels. Would you want to inflict that same feeling onto others?
>
> I prefer sprint, but I’m fine with a no sprint halo. However, there are others like you guys who can’t stand if the game does or doesn’t have sprint.
>
> So the arguments that you guys all despise would be the same ones you would use against them? If that’s not hypocritical, I don’t know what is.

Many don’t like the new gameplay because of problems they cause that the older games didn’t have. Those that like abilities more mostly just have a different preference of gameplay (or they don’t know what they want, they just think they do). That being the case, there will be other games out there for them, because honestly - and this’ll sound bad, but I don’t mean it to - it’s a fanbase that shouldn’t exist.

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> > > > > > Let’s say you guys get your way and we get a halo game without abilities and sprint. What happens to those who like halo 5’s gameplay over the classic gameplay. Would you just want to leave them in the dust?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Give them an “Abilties Playlist”. They’ll be happy.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Would you guys all be happy if there was one classic playlist?
> > >
> > >
> > > No, but you all seem to act like we would be, so you must be ok with it if you would actually suggest it as a solution.
> >
> >
> > I’ve suggested splitting halo 6 into 3 parts: Classic, new, and warzone purely for the reason that I know you guys will not be happy with one playlist.
>
>
> One unified experience is always preferred, especially with Halos current popularity. Most people that like abilities more will still play a classic style game, even if they don’t enjoy it as much, just like there are classic fans that settle for Halo in its current form. 343 put themselves in this situation of a having a divided fanbase. People say they want a fast paced game, so that’s what they’ll get provided its done properly. Besides, one new classic style game will likely be enough to see if it’s the right way to go. If it’s not, 343 will switch to something different and if it is, then the “abilitites” fans will have to find something new if they don’t like the game.

If one unified experience is preferred, then why isn’t halo 5 going as good as it should? With splitting the game into 3 parts, every type of fan would be happy. I’d rather have every fan be happy than only a portion be happy while the rest are dissapointed. I’m not saying they shouldn’t try a classic style game out. I just don’t want sprint permanently removed from a halo game.

8505

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> > > > Let’s say you guys get your way and we get a halo game without abilities and sprint. What happens to those who like halo 5’s gameplay over the classic gameplay. Would you just want to leave them in the dust?
> > >
> > >
> > > Fans of “classic” Halo have been left in the dust for going on 7 years now. MCC was 343i’s chance to right their wrong with that part of the community, but we all know how that went.
> > >
> > > This sounds so hypocritical. I don’t know if you prefer sprint or not, but you are basically saying that you don’t want to be left in the dust so you want the other part of the community to be instead.
> > >
> > > EDIT: This is like 10 minutes later, and this post is still bothering me. I guess my answer would be something along the lines of, “If you don’t like it don’t play it. Go play Halo 5, it’s the Halo game with all the abilities. Adapt.” I’m sure there are some others out there, but you get the picture.
> >
> >
> > I’m not saying it was right to leave you guys in the dust, but you guys know how it feels. Would you want to inflict that same feeling onto others?
> >
> > I prefer sprint, but I’m fine with a no sprint halo. However, there are others like you guys who can’t stand if the game does or doesn’t have sprint.
> >
> > So the arguments that you guys all despise would be the same ones you would use against them? If that’s not hypocritical, I don’t know what is.
>
>
> Maybe you’re right. Maybe it is hypocritical of me. But at the same time I want a Halo game that I enjoy. I don’t really care is anyone else likes it or not, it just happens that a lot of people seem to want the same things I want.

I’m sorry, but I don’t really understand why movement options make such a big difference as you could love a game without them and hate a game with them. How would you feel if halo 6 had 6-8 classic playlists, 6-8 new style playlists, and 3-4 warzone playlists?

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> > > > > > > > > > Halo 3
> > > > > > > > > > 50 - Sandtrap (longways)
> > > > > > > > > > 40 - Sandtrap (shortways)
> > > > > > > > > > 57 - Valhalla
> > > > > > > > > > 30 - Heretic
> > > > > > > > > > 16 - The Pit
> > > > > > > > > > 39 - Standoff
> > > > > > > > > > Halo 2
> > > > > > > > > > 45 - Headlong
> > > > > > > > > > Halo 5
> > > > > > > > > > 27 - Guillotine (Headlong) - sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > 35 - Guillotine (Headlong) - walking
> > > > > > > > > > 27.5 - Truth (Heretic) -sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > 37 - Truth (Heretic) - walking
> > > > > > > > > > 29.5 - Deadlock (Standoff) - sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > 38 - Deadlock (Standoff) - walking
> > > > > > > > > > 39 - Altar-Sandtrap (Remake) longways - Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > 50 -Altar- Sandtrap (Remake) longways - Walking
> > > > > > > > > > 20 - Altar-Sandtrap (Remake) shortways - Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > 25 - Altar0Sandtrap (Remake) shortways - Walking
> > > > > > > > > > 46 - Viking -Valhalla (Remake) - Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > 60 - Viking - Valhalla (Remake) - Walking
> > > > > > > > > > 9 - Simulation -The Pit (Remake) - Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > 11.5 - Simulation -The Pit (Remake) - Walking
> > > > > > > > > > Halo 4
> > > > > > > > > > 34 - Ragnarok (Valhalla) - Unlimited Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > 41.5 - Ragnarok (Valhalla) - Limited Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > 55 - Ragnarok (Valhalla) - Walking
> > > > > > > > > > 9 - Pitfall (The Pit) - Unlimited Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > 10.5 - Pitfall (The Pit) - Limited Sprinting
> > > > > > > > > > 14.5 - Pitfall (The Pit) - Walking
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > So overall it depends on the map, but it takes about the same time to walk across most of the maps, sometimes faster, sometimes slower, in Halo 4 and 5 as it did in 2 and 3. Sprint legitimately speeds up the time it takes to get from one point to another on a map. It is not just an illusion.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Good job.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Are these averages from many runs on one map? Say ten runs. Or did you run once flawless run and take the time? From what point of the maps, to where on the same map are you running? Do you take a special route where you can’t make it in a straight line?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Also, Ragnarok and Pitfall are 1:1 remakes of Valhalla and The Pit.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Now then, let’s start.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Illusion, yes and no. If you take a map, design it around base movement speed only, and then after that throw in a sprint function that increases your speed by 30%, then you cross the map faster. Even if we take a sprint game with maps designed around sprint, in that case you get across a map faster than not sprinting.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > However, considering that maps are designed around the mechanics present in a game, you’ll see that it is the map designer who is in charge of how fast you get places, regardless of what mechanics are present. Sprint only allows you to cross a map relatively faster than not sprinting in the same game. Clamber does not allow you to reach places that are not intended to be reached, outside of glitches and oversights of course.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Let’s take Haven, Halo 4’s smallest launch map and compare travel times with Halo 3’s Guardian. Quite consistent in travel times despite Halo 4’s sprint speed being faster than Halo 3’s BMS. Time wise they’re close, in size, far from close.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > In this case, Haven is rather large for being Halo 4’s smallest launch map, only Skyline is smaller, and not by a lot, compared to atleast Guardian in Halo 3.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > So, you get places as fast as the map designer intends you to, in this sense, sprint is an illusion.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > As for Pitfall and Ragnarok, i343 deemed that these maps were managable with sprint. Valhalla being a vehicle map and The Pit not being small in the first place. Neither of them however played like their previous counter parts.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The map size increase is generally meant for smaller maps, not large BTB maps feautring vehicles, because vehicles themselves allow players to cross a map even faster than sprint. Take a fast vehicle on any map and you’ll reach any place faster than an infantry person.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > PS: How is truth in the same league as Headlong??? I don’t recall truth being that large or headlong that small. I don’t recall any times in the leagues of 20 seconds when a moderator made a more thorough run through of truth and compared it to midship.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Truth and heretic I did by walking across the entire outer ring, those 2 I didn’t just go from point a to b. I started and ended in the same spot. And I did each run once or twice cuz I didn’t have a ton of time. But I took the same path for the various maps. I don’t know how to explain where I started and ended in each map, not all were straight lines. If I knew how to shoe you my Xbox dvr I would.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Those are interesting times. I think the next step would be to look at the times from objective to objective.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The idea that sprint is an illusion isn’t that sprinting doesn’t make you fast (we know it does) but that maps have grown larger to compensate.
> > > > > > > This I’m not sure of. I don’t think we’re seeing too many huge maps, but rather a lack of small ones. So the average size has increased but the objective sizes of maps might still fall into a similar range.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > If we measure the time it takes to get from one objective to another in Halo 2 and 3, then consider the distances from one objective to another in 4 and 5 will we see a significant difference? Remakes should not be compared to originals as we know that sprinting changes speeds. Rather, we look at the overall trends in maps sizes by comparing Flag to Flag.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You must understand that there are two kinds of sprint. In Reach, if you moved from one end of Battle Canyon to the other using sprint, you’d get there five seconds faster than you did in H2 or Ce. But in H5 if you go from Red base to Blue base on Truth using sprint, you’d get there one second faster than you did in H2. So in H5 you are moving at the Base movement speed of halos 1-3 when sprinting. Which means that sprint doesn’t actually make you go faster.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Secondly, the map size. What is the biggest 4v4/2v2 map in H5? Because why would they make the maps bigger if they added sprint? I never understood that. Why must the maps grow along with speed?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > what? you are not moving at the base speed of halo 3.
> > > > >
> > > > > Rather the ratios of speed and distance are proportional resulting in the same times (or roughly the same).
> > > > >
> > > > > Sprint absolutely makes you faster. The question is whether or not maps have been thusly scaled to maintain similar travel times, making the addition of sprint less meaningful.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > But it is a matter of perspective. You might say that the maps have been made bigger, but I might say that we have been made slower. It is the same thing.
> > >
> > >
> > > no. 4 miles in 4 minutes is very different than 400 miles in 4 minutes.
> > > distance = speedtime
> > > 4 miles=60 mph4 minutes
> > > 400 miles =6000 mph*4 minutes
> > >
> > > Even though 4/60 is equal to 400/6000 and times are the same.
> > >
> > > Sprinting makes you faster. That is fact.
> >
> >
> > How can you proof that the distances in H5 are bigger? If you’re getting from point A to point B using sprint as fast as you were in H2, than the BMS is lower and sprinting makes you go as fast as you walked in H1-3.
>
>
> How can you look at Truth and not be able to tell it’s massive compared to Midship?

I was just arguing that we have been made smaller and slower, which is why Truth looks bigger.

8507

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> > > > Let’s say you guys get your way and we get a halo game without abilities and sprint. What happens to those who like halo 5’s gameplay over the classic gameplay. Would you just want to leave them in the dust?
> > >
> > >
> > > Fans of “classic” Halo have been left in the dust for going on 7 years now. MCC was 343i’s chance to right their wrong with that part of the community, but we all know how that went.
> > >
> > > This sounds so hypocritical. I don’t know if you prefer sprint or not, but you are basically saying that you don’t want to be left in the dust so you want the other part of the community to be instead.
> > >
> > > EDIT: This is like 10 minutes later, and this post is still bothering me. I guess my answer would be something along the lines of, “If you don’t like it don’t play it. Go play Halo 5, it’s the Halo game with all the abilities. Adapt.” I’m sure there are some others out there, but you get the picture.
> >
> >
> > I’m not saying it was right to leave you guys in the dust, but you guys know how it feels. Would you want to inflict that same feeling onto others?
> >
> > I prefer sprint, but I’m fine with a no sprint halo. However, there are others like you guys who can’t stand if the game does or doesn’t have sprint.
> >
> > So the arguments that you guys all despise would be the same ones you would use against them? If that’s not hypocritical, I don’t know what is.
>
>
> Many don’t like the new gameplay because of problems they cause that the older games didn’t have. Those that like abilities more mostly just have a different preference of gameplay (or they don’t know what they want, they just think they do). That being the case, there will be other games out there for them, because honestly - and this’ll sound bad, but I don’t mean it to - it’s a fanbase that shouldn’t exist.

You’re right. That does sound bad. I really have a problem when people say others who don’t share their opinion don’t know what they want.

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> > > > > > > Let’s say you guys get your way and we get a halo game without abilities and sprint. What happens to those who like halo 5’s gameplay over the classic gameplay. Would you just want to leave them in the dust?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Give them an “Abilties Playlist”. They’ll be happy.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Would you guys all be happy if there was one classic playlist?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > No, but you all seem to act like we would be, so you must be ok with it if you would actually suggest it as a solution.
> > >
> > >
> > > I’ve suggested splitting halo 6 into 3 parts: Classic, new, and warzone purely for the reason that I know you guys will not be happy with one playlist.
> >
> >
> > One unified experience is always preferred, especially with Halos current popularity. Most people that like abilities more will still play a classic style game, even if they don’t enjoy it as much, just like there are classic fans that settle for Halo in its current form. 343 put themselves in this situation of a having a divided fanbase. People say they want a fast paced game, so that’s what they’ll get provided its done properly. Besides, one new classic style game will likely be enough to see if it’s the right way to go. If it’s not, 343 will switch to something different and if it is, then the “abilitites” fans will have to find something new if they don’t like the game.
>
>
> If one unified experience is preferred, then why isn’t halo 5 going as good as it should? With splitting the game into 3 parts, every type of fan would be happy. I’d rather have every fan be happy than only a portion be happy while the rest are dissapointed. I’m not saying they shouldn’t try a classic style game out. I just don’t want sprint permanently removed from a halo game.

Halo can’t be everything for everyone. No game can be and it shouldn’t try to be. Halo 5 is doing poorly for a number of reasons, but not because it’s not split for different audiences. Doing that would basically be forcing them to make two different games in one. Everything would need to be balanced differently and different maps would have to be made for each. That’s a ton more time and resources put into the game and each side will still get less out of it in terms of content.

It would result in the same thing that happened in Halo 5 where 343 tried to find a middle ground in the default settings for casuals and the competitive audience: everyone gets a half -Yoinked!- version of what they wanted.

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> > > > > Let’s say you guys get your way and we get a halo game without abilities and sprint. What happens to those who like halo 5’s gameplay over the classic gameplay. Would you just want to leave them in the dust?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Fans of “classic” Halo have been left in the dust for going on 7 years now. MCC was 343i’s chance to right their wrong with that part of the community, but we all know how that went.
> > > >
> > > > This sounds so hypocritical. I don’t know if you prefer sprint or not, but you are basically saying that you don’t want to be left in the dust so you want the other part of the community to be instead.
> > > >
> > > > EDIT: This is like 10 minutes later, and this post is still bothering me. I guess my answer would be something along the lines of, “If you don’t like it don’t play it. Go play Halo 5, it’s the Halo game with all the abilities. Adapt.” I’m sure there are some others out there, but you get the picture.
> > >
> > >
> > > I’m not saying it was right to leave you guys in the dust, but you guys know how it feels. Would you want to inflict that same feeling onto others?
> > >
> > > I prefer sprint, but I’m fine with a no sprint halo. However, there are others like you guys who can’t stand if the game does or doesn’t have sprint.
> > >
> > > So the arguments that you guys all despise would be the same ones you would use against them? If that’s not hypocritical, I don’t know what is.
> >
> >
> > Many don’t like the new gameplay because of problems they cause that the older games didn’t have. Those that like abilities more mostly just have a different preference of gameplay (or they don’t know what they want, they just think they do). That being the case, there will be other games out there for them, because honestly - and this’ll sound bad, but I don’t mean it to - it’s a fanbase that shouldn’t exist.
>
>
> You’re right. That does sound bad. I really have a problem when people say others who don’t share their opinion don’t know what they want.

That’s not to say your opinions don’t matter. The fanbase does exist, so your opinions matter. I’m just saying the fanbase is one that never should’ve exist because the series never should’ve taken such a massive departure from the originals that it didn’t benefit from (in terms of how many fans it gained and lost).

The masses don’t know what they want. That’s just the fact of the matter. I always use this example, but when Gears of War released, everyone was saying Halo 3 needed a cover system. It was just the better way to do things. That probably sounds like a terrible idea, but that’s what people said. Halo 3 came out without a cover system and the rest is history.

People have to be shown what they want. They don’t know what a classic style game would play like today, they just think they do because of a game from 10 years ago.

8510

I think they need to keep it but get rid of the Spartan charge

8511

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> As mentioned you can use in-game objects to understand the scale. A warthog has not changed its size to any large degree over any of the games. If you need to you can check that with forge.
>
> Based on what you’re saying here, to go back to the math, if walking to the park and driving to work take the same amount of time then walking and driving must be the same speed. Which is utter nonsense.
>
> The experience isn’t dissimilar to why 40 miles per hour feels really fast in a school zone, but super slow on the free way. The scale of the different drive ways means the speeds and distances are experienced differently… but objectively the numbers are what they are.

So first off, you can’t use the in-game objects to understand the scale, because the numbers mean nothing. Lets say that Midship a 100 units long and that Truth is a 150 units long. The maps are still the same size.

-------------------- This line is a 100 units long.
-------------------- This one is a 150 units long.
See?
You can’t measure the maps with ghosts, warthogs or Brs because I can just say that they have been made smaller.

I was always arguing that Midship and Truth are the same size, but we have been made smaller and slower. You are arguing that the maps are bigger. That is a matter of perspective. This isn’t the first time I’ve talked about this, but do you understand?

8512

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> Let’s say you guys get your way and we get a halo game without abilities and sprint. What happens to those who like halo 5’s gameplay over the classic gameplay. Would you just want to leave them in the dust?

Yes.
If they have no genuine interest in what I prefer, why would I want them around?

8513

<mark>This post has been edited by a moderator. Please refrain from making posts that do not contribute to the topic at hand.</mark>

*Original post. Click at your own discretion.

Guys. Please just stop arguing. I come to the site seeing the SAME stuff EVERY day.
“I Hate Sprint!”
“Microtransactions?! (GASP) HOW DARE YOU!!”
Just. Stop. It’s making me tired.

8514

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> > Anyway, if what you say is true, then that means that multiplayer was designed before the campaign, right? If that’s the case, then sprint being cut in the alpha is–interesting. Maybe it provided too many challenges to Halo 2’s development, I’m not sure how they would change the core gameplay without having to change other aspects of the game as well. Maybe it was just an idea that was only entertained and then put away. As for it resurfacing, and being a reality, in Reach, that’s another point that deserves further discussion.
>
>
> I don’t know if multiplayer was designed before campaign. (Although in the case of Halo 2 maybe it really was.) I just think that Bungie builds the overall gameplay first, then creates playspaces wherein to fight enemies, adds them together to form a level and arranges the levels in sequence according to story last. In most Halo games, a lot of the levels are pretty interchangeable. What if we had crashlanded on the Silent Cartographer first? Halo 2 could have easily swapped the protagonists, with Chief trying to steal a long-range ship from the Threshold gas mine while the Arbiter invades Cairo Station with Regret. (Although the latter would have required some human enemies.) I’m just saying, I don’t think they write the story before anything else. More likely it’s being developed in parallel with the levels.

I would completely agree with you there. Why was sprint scrapped so early on in the development of Halo 2? Why did it appear in Reach? These are probably two of the biggest questions in this debate.

Hah, that’s a great example, because Silent Cartographer was supposed to be the first level in CE. I watched the developer commentaries on Halo CE and Halo 2, they were pretty interesting. As for your last remarks, they probably didn’t write the story before anything else, but after you’ve developed your core gameplay, don’t you need some kind of a direction to go in with it? I mean, sure, the finer details are added later on down the line, but designing playspaces would be more efficient if there was a shared concept of what a level was ultimately trying to achieve, wouldn’t it? Why set up a level where the end goal is to find a map, if it isn’t going to be relevant to the story?

8515

But seriously. You don’t have to sprint. So, why do you hate it? Is it because, God forbid, the other players have an unfair advantage? Gasp!
I, for one, prefer sprint to be in the game. Does that mean that you all have to obey me and keep it forever?
No. No it doesn’t.
But that’s just my opinion. And I understand that you have an opinion too, and that you want your voice to be heard, but that doesn’t guarantee that 343’ll listen.
I just don’t get why people hate sprint so much. Sure, it wasn’t in the original games, but that doesn’t mean they couldn’t introduce a new mechanic.
I mean, CoD used to be about real warfare, and modern battles. But it’s now some sort of semifuturistic FPS game that may not be realistic. I have yet to hear anyone complain.
Did anyone complain about the Wasp? Sure, it’s pretty weak, but has anyone complained about it because it’s newer than the other vehicles?
No.
And I probably sound like a jerk, but xenophobia won’t solve anything. I know that you want to “preserve” the old game mechanics and whatnot, but there’s no point in complaining about something because it’s “new”.

8516

> 2533274819567236;8456:
> > 2533274816931642;8450:
> > > 2533274801176260;8425:
> > > > 2533274816931642;8316:
> > > > Those animations didn’t even make it out of the alpha. In the behind the scenes video that I watched, it was explained that Bungie always started with the story, and then designed the rest of the game around it. As for what that means with regard to the existence of sprint animations, I guess it’s up to you to infer what that means. Who knows, maybe it had something to do with hardware limitations, and the possible implementation of sprint would’ve been so limited that it was deemed an unnecessary use of resources. But then, there’s Occam’s Razor.
> > >
> > >
> > > Could you link this video to me? Because quite honestly, I’ve read the exact opposite. If I recall correctly it was in an interview with german magazine “Gamestar” from april 2000, where they said: “… denn die Kampagne für den Einzelspielermodus wird nach alter Bungie Tradition erst zum schluss festgelegt”, roughly translated “…because, according to old Bungie-tradition, the campaign for single player is only established in the end.”
> > > Unfortunately all scans of this interview are down, and I only found one guy quoting this text passage in a forums. If need be, I could try and find the magazine myself (if I even own it), but that might take a while, as all my old stuff is in my parent’s house.
> >
> >
> > Upon watching it again, I’ve decided that I might’ve misinterpreted the context. However, is it reasonable to assume that sprint wasn’t necessary for Halo 2’s story? Why didn’t Bungie’s documentary mention sprint? Sprint has effected the art and design of Halo 5, so there has to be some reason as to why it was scrapped so early on in Halo 2’s development. The main two that come to mind, for me, are:
> >
> > 1.) Hardware limitations, this could be anything from the amount of potential scripts that need to be ran, to rendering issues.
> > 2.) It altered the gameplay, which wasn’t what Bungie wanted, for one reason or another.
> >
> > There are other possibilities, e.g. story telling, level design, the design of the music, etc.; however, the two that I listed above seem like the most likely explanations, IMO.
> >
> > Anyway, if what you say is true, then that means that multiplayer was designed before the campaign, right? If that’s the case, then sprint being cut in the alpha is–interesting. Maybe it provided too many challenges to Halo 2’s development, I’m not sure how they would change the core gameplay without having to change other aspects of the game as well. Maybe it was just an idea that was only entertained and then put away. As for it resurfacing, and being a reality, in Reach, that’s another point that deserves further discussion.
> >
> > I also found this to be really interesting.
>
>
> Concepts are tested and scrapped all time. They can’t all be winners, so when they’re not they get cut. There’s no reason to bring up a mechanic that didn’t even make it past the testing phase. A Halo 2 animator said as far as he could recall it didn’t even come up during development in Halo 3, so they hadn’t even tried to test it. If it was something they were forced to cut in Halo 2 for reasons other than gameplay, I’d imagine they very likely would’ve tried it out again. Obviously, with Halo 2 they didn’t realize how much time they needed, so they would’ve been more prepared during Halo 3’s development in that sense.
>
> At best, even if it didn’t cause gameplay problems, it would still suggest that it didn’t benefit the game enough to include.

Indeed, so what about Reach, then? Were the armor abilities introduced as a way for Bungie to work on the development of the gameplay in Destiny? Or, did they use Halo 2 and Halo 3 to focus on the Sandbox, so that they could start introducing new ideas to see if they worked? The idea of the jetpack was around since CE, and it finally showed up in Reach. Why wasn’t it included earlier? Boarding Action would’ve been completely different with it. The Mongoose wasn’t introduced in Halo 2 because they were having issues with its physics, but that issue was apparently resolved, as Halo 3 had them. Why wasn’t sprint touched again until Reach?

8517

> 2535422073870659;8515:
> But seriously. You don’t have to sprint. So, why do you hate it? Is it because, God forbid, the other players have an unfair advantage? Gasp!
> I, for one, prefer sprint to be in the game. Does that mean that you all have to obey me and keep it forever?
> No. No it doesn’t.
> But that’s just my opinion. And I understand that you have an opinion too, and that you want your voice to be heard, but that doesn’t guarantee that 343’ll listen.
> I just don’t get why people hate sprint so much. Sure, it wasn’t in the original games, but that doesn’t mean they couldn’t introduce a new mechanic.
> I mean, CoD used to be about real warfare, and modern battles. But it’s now some sort of semifuturistic FPS game that may not be realistic. I have yet to hear anyone complain.
> Did anyone complain about the Wasp? Sure, it’s pretty weak, but has anyone complained about it because it’s newer than the other vehicles?
> No.
> And I probably sound like a jerk, but xenophobia won’t solve anything. I know that you want to “preserve” the old game mechanics and whatnot, but there’s no point in complaining about something because it’s “new”.

You don’t sound like a jerk. You sound like a know-nothing that has had everything laid out and explained for him already, but decided to remain willfully ignorant.

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> 2533274819567236;8517:
> > 2535422073870659;8515:
> > But seriously. You don’t have to sprint. So, why do you hate it? Is it because, God forbid, the other players have an unfair advantage? Gasp!
> > I, for one, prefer sprint to be in the game. Does that mean that you all have to obey me and keep it forever?
> > No. No it doesn’t.
> > But that’s just my opinion. And I understand that you have an opinion too, and that you want your voice to be heard, but that doesn’t guarantee that 343’ll listen.
> > I just don’t get why people hate sprint so much. Sure, it wasn’t in the original games, but that doesn’t mean they couldn’t introduce a new mechanic.
> > I mean, CoD used to be about real warfare, and modern battles. But it’s now some sort of semifuturistic FPS game that may not be realistic. I have yet to hear anyone complain.
> > Did anyone complain about the Wasp? Sure, it’s pretty weak, but has anyone complained about it because it’s newer than the other vehicles?
> > No.
> > And I probably sound like a jerk, but xenophobia won’t solve anything. I know that you want to “preserve” the old game mechanics and whatnot, but there’s no point in complaining about something because it’s “new”.
>
>
> You don’t sound like a jerk. You sound like a know-nothing that has had everything laid out and explained for him already, but decided to remain willfully ignorant.

oh.

8519

I’m just tired of logging on to this awesome site with these awesome people and getting a face full of “RAAAAWWWWR!!!”

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> 2535455681930574;8505:
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> > > > 2533274800772611;8495:
> > > > > 2535455681930574;8491:
> > > > > Let’s say you guys get your way and we get a halo game without abilities and sprint. What happens to those who like halo 5’s gameplay over the classic gameplay. Would you just want to leave them in the dust?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Fans of “classic” Halo have been left in the dust for going on 7 years now. MCC was 343i’s chance to right their wrong with that part of the community, but we all know how that went.
> > > >
> > > > This sounds so hypocritical. I don’t know if you prefer sprint or not, but you are basically saying that you don’t want to be left in the dust so you want the other part of the community to be instead.
> > > >
> > > > EDIT: This is like 10 minutes later, and this post is still bothering me. I guess my answer would be something along the lines of, “If you don’t like it don’t play it. Go play Halo 5, it’s the Halo game with all the abilities. Adapt.” I’m sure there are some others out there, but you get the picture.
> > >
> > >
> > > I’m not saying it was right to leave you guys in the dust, but you guys know how it feels. Would you want to inflict that same feeling onto others?
> > >
> > > I prefer sprint, but I’m fine with a no sprint halo. However, there are others like you guys who can’t stand if the game does or doesn’t have sprint.
> > >
> > > So the arguments that you guys all despise would be the same ones you would use against them? If that’s not hypocritical, I don’t know what is.
> >
> >
> > Maybe you’re right. Maybe it is hypocritical of me. But at the same time I want a Halo game that I enjoy. I don’t really care is anyone else likes it or not, it just happens that a lot of people seem to want the same things I want.
>
>
> I’m sorry, but I don’t really understand why movement options make such a big difference as you could love a game without them and hate a game with them. How would you feel if halo 6 had 6-8 classic playlists, 6-8 new style playlists, and 3-4 warzone playlists?

How can I not like it? They fundamentally change the way that multiplayer is player. I don’t happen to like that change. Splitting up the population like that hurts everyone. As much as I don’t like the way that 343i is going with Halo, I think that creating two completely different experiences within one game is a mistake. Development would have to be split between the two. That means half the maps. That means less time making the game feel “tight.” That means a lower overall quality experience. They have to chose one gamestyle and stick with it. I hope that it’s what I want. I really do. But if if it’s not then so be it. I’ll pick it up later to play the campaign and try it out.

8521

> 2535422073870659;8515:
> But seriously. You don’t have to sprint. So, why do you hate it? Is it because, God forbid, the other players have an unfair advantage? Gasp!
> I, for one, prefer sprint to be in the game. Does that mean that you all have to obey me and keep it forever?
> No. No it doesn’t.
> But that’s just my opinion. And I understand that you have an opinion too, and that you want your voice to be heard, but that doesn’t guarantee that 343’ll listen.
> I just don’t get why people hate sprint so much. Sure, it wasn’t in the original games, but that doesn’t mean they couldn’t introduce a new mechanic.
> I mean, CoD used to be about real warfare, and modern battles. But it’s now some sort of semifuturistic FPS game that may not be realistic. I have yet to hear anyone complain.
> Did anyone complain about the Wasp? Sure, it’s pretty weak, but has anyone complained about it because it’s newer than the other vehicles?
> No.
> And I probably sound like a jerk, but xenophobia won’t solve anything. I know that you want to “preserve” the old game mechanics and whatnot, but there’s no point in complaining about something because it’s “new”.

This isn’t an Appeal to Tradition.

The Wasp, in the right hands, borders on being overpowered. There’s a reason why it can’t take very much damage.

Infinite Warfare got a lot of hate, especially because it’s bundled with an original remake. Last I heard, CoD was experiencing some drop-off when there were major changes made to its core gameplay. The remake will probably be the best CoD since MW2, so it seems like a desperate move to sell their current title. Why couldn’t they just stick to CoD, and release their futuristic military sci-fi twitch shooter under a different title?